: STS exterior style and BMW



majax
06-11-04, 12:37 AM
I have heard a lot of critics and even some people on this forum say that the new STS looks pretty much like a glorified CTS. Well if you look at other car companies like BMW you notice that their cars all look very similar. Is it really that bad for the STS to look like the CTS and sorta the SRX? Or should cadillac give a good amount of distinction between their cars? I know one of the reasons i dont like BMW a lot is cause they all look the same.

CoupeDevilleRob
06-11-04, 01:46 PM
What about back in the 50's and 60's when every makes cars looked the same and models were distinguished by the amount of chrome, no one complained then. I have no problem with the STS looking similar to the CTS or SRX, keeping the same basic design is how you tell they are Cadillacs.

I'll pass my final judgement on the STS/CTS look alike factor when I see the two together in person. I don't feel pictures can do either car justice.

Vrocks
06-12-04, 12:50 AM
The STS is a better looking car inside and out than the CTS when you see it in person. Atleast that's what I thought when they were under the lights at the NY auto show.

Rauf
06-12-04, 06:50 PM
I like the STS more, because it's larger than the CTS and has many options not available in the CTS. I also expect the 2006 DTS will be the biggest car among all Cadillac's models.

b4z
06-12-04, 07:54 PM
Yeah, but back in the '50s and 60s the bodies changed almost every year.

Cadence
06-13-04, 05:37 PM
You can create a family of cars without making each one appear to be clones of each other. The XLR and CTS look nothing alike, and yet,we all know what company made them and they both have their own character about them. I'm not a big fan of the SRX as well (not really sure why they made this vehicle at all to tell the truth). IMO, I think the CTS would have made a very nice sports wagon, and I really hope they take a good look at the growing popularity of the CTS to give it a consideration.

To me, the Cien and Sixteen should have provided them with enough to create the STS and DTS. Smoothing the edges on the STS really killed the looks in my opinion. You have to remember that the exterior of the Cien was inspired by the F-22 Raptor, one beautiful, yet deadly, aircraft. It had few curves and maintained it's edginess. I was really looking forward to the STS to come out after seeing the Cien concept. Not anymore.

In 2001, Popular Mechanics showed a picture of a Cadillac, in which they called it the CTS ( November 2001, page 46). At that time, I felt that if that was the CTS, the STS has to be a couple of step above it, with looks to kill as well. Now if you see that picture and the '05 STS, there's no way you can tell me they don't look the same. If you have this issue of Popular Mechanics, take a good look at that "CTS" and the '05 STS.

Wayne Cherry (GM design director) and Simon Cox (creator of the Cien Prototype) should choke Bob Lutz silly right now, lol.

What a missed oppurtunity!:banghead:

Caddy Man
06-13-04, 07:13 PM
i jsut saw the new STS today in Detroit on teh freeway, i am a huge car guy, i can see a cars headlights and tailights at night and 90% of the time, i can tell you what model and roughly what year it is. Yea im one of those peopel, but as i saw the STS, FIRST thing that came into my mind was CTS!!! I had to wait till i saw more of the back tailights to make sur eit was an STS. it was maroon colored. IT IS A GLORIFIED CTS. The CTS, escalade, and XLR look nothing alike, yet use the same design theme, why couldnt they do somethign differnt with this new STS? all of you who say oh mercedes and bmw they use similiar designs, well i can spot a mercedes from a good distance away and tell you what model, C, E or S class, it is, same with teh BMWs. This STS looked way to much like a CTS. I think more of the problem lies not only in the front facia of the car, but also in its profile, proportionally it just looks like a larger CTS.

majax
06-13-04, 07:39 PM
Maybe Cadillac is playing with us and is goin to come out with something 1,000 times better at the last minute:confused: :bouncy:. Hey, i have my hopes.

Cadence
06-13-04, 09:55 PM
Not sure what that might be right now. But if they do, it had better be breathtaking, to make up for the seemingly loss of appeal with the Lutz STS.

Man, I was looking forward to the Cien to pass on it's genes to the STS.... :helpless:

megeebee
06-15-04, 05:52 PM
This is tough one. It is true that Cadillacs European competition has made thier fortunes on what could be called a "Sears Catalog" approach. But, instead of "good-better-best", you could say it's a "big-bigger-biggest" idea. Essentially the same design offered in three sizes, as well as the attendant drivetrain and feature differences. This has worked well for them. Oddly, the Japanese have been, until recently, unconcerned with this kind of uniformity. I have read several places recently that Lexus is well aware of this and wishes to change it. Infiniti will, with the new M45 coming out soon, address this and have a model line up that could be said to have a family resemblance (a resemblnce I might add owes most of its character to the Evoq). Lexus could not be said to have suffered from this sales-wise, though.
I feel that the overwhelming success of the "Art & Science" design vocabulary, both in concept as well as production, would be enough reason to keep this resemblance between the models. Especially now, with Cadillacs resurgance still in its infancy. It's important to establish the visual identity and reinforce it. Once this is achieved, and it looks as though my beloved Cadillac will succeed, the designers can carry the look in new directions.

majax
06-15-04, 06:34 PM
you said it megeebee!

jerseyvette
06-15-04, 10:48 PM
I have heard a lot of critics and even some people on this forum say that the new STS looks pretty much like a glorified CTS. Well if you look at other car companies like BMW you notice that their cars all look very similar. Is it really that bad for the STS to look like the CTS and sorta the SRX? Or should cadillac give a good amount of distinction between their cars? I know one of the reasons i dont like BMW a lot is cause they all look the same.
Here is the way I would do things at Cadillac (my family has 6 right now)
1) I am a tall driver and every model except for the Escalade and CTS is absolutely crammed in front leg room. My dad just bought a new town car after owning Cadillacs since 1971 for this reason. THE SEVILLE AND DEVILLE ENGINEERS ARE IDIOTS IN MAKING TEH CORRECT AMOUNT OF ROOM IN CARS. (now that that is off my chest)

2) Mercedes and BMW do things right with models. They have a premium (often $100K and over price range) model that they make the more affordable models mimic in style (this is why BMW 3 series out sell 7 series by a factor of 10). Same with Mercedes the S Class was the first redesign that created a high end aura about the cars. Then came the new C, and E Class that looke amoslt exactly similar.

3) Now with STS: Cadillac designs a nice car with CTS BUT IT IS STILL A $30K LOOKING 6 CYLINDER CAR. It also reminds me of it being a dressed up version of a small european car(like a Vauxhall or Australian car). This I don't like particurarly (but it sells so who cares). The SRX is also on the same platform as CTS along with the new STS. Making higher end cars look like the cheaper model cheaper cars (2005 STS and CTS) to me is a fundamental marketing mistake. Especially since (mostly) everyone in the 30-45 age range (men at least) are in the "yuppie mentality" that wants to look richer than they are. In marketing these buyers are seperated between two groups 1) Utilitarian (your typical honda accord driver) and 2) Hedonistic customer types (your Corvette type of driver) that buys cars for how they make them feel. I'd definately classify a typical Cadillac driver (under 45) to be a more hedonictis type of driver.

Why am I going on like this...? Because the next flagship Cadillac better hav LEG ROOM and a look similar to the Cadillac 16 model. Or else teh division will need to bring in Lee Iacocca out of retirement.

A Cadillac and Corvette Lover in NJ

b4z
06-16-04, 06:38 AM
jerseyvette,

The CTS and STS are rated by the EPA as mid size cars by interior volume.

They are also fairly narrow vehicles.

3 across seating in the rear would be an almost impossible fit unless
they were children or young adults.

I recently saw a STS comparison chart and it beats the luxury mid size
competiton in just about every category except headroom and in engine power it is competitve or better.
In V6 power, the others are not even close.

Have you looked at the SRX?

I am 6'8" and have good legroom in the rear even with the seat back.

The SRX has almost 3" more legroom than the STS and 4" more than the CTS.

I have to agree with you on the current deville. What is up with the no legroom?
The knee bolster is in my knee! As is the center stack. I can't even drive the durn thing.

Cadence
06-16-04, 05:27 PM
I'm just under 6'4" and I usually sit behind my dad (during family trips) who's just under 6'0". I agree on the lack of leg room in the STS, but it also depends on the way the seat is positioned as well. I usually raise the back end of my seat in the Seville, while making sure the seat is back just enough to where I'm comfortable.

I can only imagine how it is for those over 6'5 or so in a STS. Hopefully they made a few changes like, add some more head room and get rid of unneccesary window sill space in the back (it's like a greenhouse back there on long trips in the older model, hopefully they changed this with the newer models).

I hope that the new model DTS is everything I originally expected, unlike this newer STS. I'm hoping it's along the lines of what the S-Class is for the Mercedes. They have the right idea with the current model, let's see if they go with the idea of "evolution" (go with a more familiar yet upgraded shape), instead of "revolution" (all out complete change), while staying within the "Arts and Science" theme. I think that's what they should have done with the STS actually.

Pete Benson
06-16-04, 09:59 PM
I have to say I'm a little surprised at all this hand-wringing and eye-rolling about the alleged lack of room in recent Cadillacs. I am 6' 8" tall and fit comfortably in all current models with the possible exception of the XLR, which is admittedly a little snug. I guess it just has to do with your individual proportions.

megeebee
06-17-04, 02:19 PM
This may be old news to everyone, but there are some good factory-studio shots of what appears to be a V6 STS on www.Automobilemag.com (http://www.Automobilemag.com). The car pictured is not wearing a Northstar badge on the trunk, and is shod with what appears to be the same 17" wheels that are available on the CTS. There is also a good, full width shot of the instument panel. I herewith add my vote for a "spoiler delete" option.

CTScop
06-18-04, 12:55 PM
i jsut saw the new STS today in Detroit on teh freeway, i am a huge car guy, i can see a cars headlights and tailights at night and 90% of the time, i can tell you what model and roughly what year it is. Yea im one of those peopel, but as i saw the STS, FIRST thing that came into my mind was CTS!!! I had to wait till i saw more of the back tailights to make sur eit was an STS. it was maroon colored. IT IS A GLORIFIED CTS. The CTS, escalade, and XLR look nothing alike, yet use the same design theme, why couldnt they do somethign differnt with this new STS? all of you who say oh mercedes and bmw they use similiar designs, well i can spot a mercedes from a good distance away and tell you what model, C, E or S class, it is, same with teh BMWs. This STS looked way to much like a CTS. I think more of the problem lies not only in the front facia of the car, but also in its profile, proportionally it just looks like a larger CTS.

Thats what I said and I was chastized for not being a "car guy"!?! I'll get ovwer it, but I also agree that it looks ALOT like the CTS. But I hope its a big sller and keeps Cadillac rolling forward.

Caddy Man
06-18-04, 03:40 PM
yea i mean i have nothin against the cts, i think its a great car, but i think they used design cues a little too much for the new STS.