: Ground Control Issue? Hard to steer right.



Cowan480
08-02-08, 07:53 AM
V owners with GC, I had my coil over installed about a month ago. The car was lowered just about to the max in the front. The rear seems great. I noticed/felt rubbing on the left side more so than the right(front only). Also, it is much easier to steer my car to the left than the right. After driving it for a couple of days I finally lift the car, pulled the wheels off, and adjusted the coil overs up three complete turns on left and right front. The rubbing has stopped. Again, rear seems to be a right on and at a good height.

After the adjustment, the V turns just fine to about 1'oclock to the right, but at 2 o'clock it starts getting hard to turn and making a slight "grinding/rubbing" noise. The car seems level in the front and when I adjusted the coil overs they seemed to be ajusted exacly the same. The car does not pull at all.


I did not have the V aligned yet and plan on doing that next week. I did not change the shocks. Suspension wise, everything is stock other than the coil overs.

Does anyone know what might be going on with my steering? Why is it hard to steer to the right?:hmm:

Twitch
08-02-08, 08:02 AM
Just did mine a couple weeks ago. Is it when your driving, ar also when parked? Check your hight from the floor to the fenders. Also, you should look at the pictures in the FAQ, and make sure yours are installed the right way. Check to see if the shocks are in the right places.
I would think something is touching, or it would be hard the whole time.
Dunno if this helps :hide:

Tony

Naf
08-02-08, 08:02 AM
your swaybar end link may be broken...That is what happened when i installed the GMPP swaybars

Twitch
08-02-08, 08:05 AM
your swaybar end link may be broken...That is what happened when i installed the GMPP swaybars
True, and if not check the gap between the swaybar and the shocks. You don't need to jack up the car for this.
Good luck.

Cowan480
08-02-08, 12:20 PM
Just did mine a couple weeks ago. Is it when your driving, ar also when parked? Check your hight from the floor to the fenders. Also, you should look at the pictures in the FAQ, and make sure yours are installed the right way. Check to see if the shocks are in the right places.
I would think something is touching, or it would be hard the whole time.
Dunno if this helps :hide:

Tony
It's when I am drivning; I have not tried it park, but I will and let me know.

I will also check the height from the finders. I am not really familiar with the Fax. Do you have a Link?



True, and if not check the gap between the swaybar and the shocks. You don't need to jack up the car for this.
Good luck.

I am not sure what the swab bar is supposed to look like, and I will take a look at the gap today as well.

Thanks for the help!

Cowan480
08-02-08, 12:50 PM
Could this be the problem?

CTSV_510
08-02-08, 01:26 PM
I am not really familiar with the Fax. Do you have a Link?


www.cadillacfaq.com

Here is the GC kit install so you can check the pictures with the work that you had done: http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/gcinstall/index.html


Could this be the problem?

It's hard to tell the gap from that angle - you'd need a shot from the top to see the clearance. That's probably not your issue since you have the stock sways and the FE4 shocks, which aren't as thick as the FG2s and the hotchkis sways.


If Naf is right about an endlink possiblly broken, check them out. If you don't know what they look like, they are the black piece that connects the end of the sway bar that you can see in the right side of this picture.

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/swaybar/5-s.jpg

Cowan480
08-02-08, 07:35 PM
With the wheel on, it looks/feels like the endlink is in tact and not broken. I will take the wheel off and take a closer look at it this coming week.

Maximusthefarmer
08-03-08, 04:38 AM
After I installed mine I had a nut work itself off of the upper control arm on the front driver side wheel, and the bolt had backed out a little bit which made it hard to turn in one direction but ok in the other direction. I do not think this is your problem because it made the car feel very unstable (obviously) so much that I immediately stopped and took it apart but its worth a look maybe

Cowan480
08-07-08, 08:54 AM
Tony, thanks again for all the help. I will install the OZ6 end links this week. Can you post those pics for me?

I still have not fixed the steering. The more I look into it, I feel I have a rubbing issue, but not my coil overs do not go any higher.:hmm:

Twitch
08-07-08, 12:15 PM
Cowan480s pics:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3926.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3927.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3928.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3930.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3931.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3932.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3934.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3935.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3937.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3938.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3939.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3941.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3942.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3943.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3944.jpg

Twitch
08-07-08, 12:15 PM
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3945.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j177/Gxxr1/DSCF3946.jpg

Cowan480
08-08-08, 07:10 PM
DOES ANYTHING LOOK OUT OF LINE IN THE PICS?? THANKS TWITCH!!

I just installed my ZO6 end links!! Not that hard... I am still having the Issue!! I think my stock sway bar is hitting the shock!! I am almost postive thats what it is!! Let me tell you why, I was sitting at the gas station today after I install the endlinks, The car was making the noise sitting still. I had a friend with me and he said rev the engine, so I did and the noise got louder and the vibration in the steering wheel got a little worse. Having said/done that, I believe the Isssue is the sway hitting the shock.

Anyone else have this problem?? Would Hotckis solve the prob?? Thanks for help!!

NormV
08-08-08, 08:52 PM
Steerting shaft making contact with the 1-7/8 headers? How about the steering rack bushing?


Norm

Cowan480
08-08-08, 09:37 PM
I am not sure about either one of those. I'll check it out tomorrow morning. I have a lift tomorrow!!

Thanks for the lead Norm!!

rand49er
08-08-08, 09:49 PM
Steerting shaft making contact with the 1-7/8 headers? How about the steering rack bushing?


NormYeah, those ... plus, how's your PS fluid level?

Heck, this may not even be a suspension issue. Who'da thunk it.

Cowan480
08-08-08, 09:52 PM
never had the prob until after the install...

It was lowered to the ground when I picked it up.. thought it was rubbing so up I went with it... that didnt fix it.. I have been trouble shooting for two weeks.. I have to get it fixed before Oct.!!!

Cowan480
08-08-08, 10:01 PM
let me clear something up for you randy and norm...

when I was sitting at the gas station, I was turning the steering wheel lightly to the right... and thats when it makes the noise.. if I do not move the steering wheel to the right, it doesnt make the noise. Sorry I wasnt clear on the post earlier...mybad!!

rand49er
08-08-08, 10:12 PM
Hmm-m ...

Coincides with the GC install. Isn't the steering. Does it only to the right. This is indeed an enigma. :confused:

Cowan480
08-08-08, 10:19 PM
haaha yes only when I am turning right!! when I turn left!! WOW its great!!!!

I'll look at what norm said tomorrow.. I have a lift tomorrow and ill be able to turn it and all that and be able to look from the bottom up! I am going to look at the sway and shock clearance first thing!!

rand49er
08-08-08, 11:51 PM
Sorry, but one last observation.

When you turn left, you say it's okay. Now, suppose you've turned left, say all the way. When does the problem start while turning back to the right? Immediately? ... or not until the wheels are pointing back toward the right somewhere past the center point?

Cowan480
08-09-08, 02:35 AM
good question... after a turn to the left.. I start back right, at 12 o'clock nothing wrong.. it starts making noise/vibration/and gets hard to turn... at 12:30 to 1 o'clock... in other words I have to be (past center point) in order for the issue to start.. as I said before in this thread, when I turn steering wheel right "not moving" on a smooth surface(car-port) there is no issue.. I only have the prob when I was driving forward at any speed.. since I have installed the ZO6 endlink I noticed it making noise at the gas station (not moving and waiting in line for gas)

please note. when I was sitting still at the gas station I have to put pressure on steering wheel(turning right) in order for it the make sound.. if I let go of the sound stops.. also, it only has issue throughtout certain points of the turn. 12:30 yes, 1 oclock yes... 130 no... 2oclock no... all the way right no issue..

Hopefully I can lift it, and make some noise with it and pen point the issue..

hope that make since.. Thanks!!

SkullV
08-09-08, 02:47 AM
Man I hope you get this figured out! I am ordering my GC this week! I dont want to jack the thread but does anyone know which GC kit to order for QA1 shocks (fe4 or FG2)?

Cowan480
08-09-08, 02:51 AM
I can tell you this... if you ask ground contol good luck there:banghead:!! their customer service isn't that great!!

It will be OK!! These forum guys know their $hit!:yup:

rand49er
08-09-08, 09:23 AM
Man I hope you get this figured out! ...:yeah:




I can tell you this... if you ask ground contol good luck there:banghead:!! their customer service isn't that great! ,,,:yeah:

Hey, Cowan, when you get underneath it, do you have anyone who can turn the steering wheel for you so you can problem solve/search?

Twitch
08-09-08, 12:00 PM
haaha yes only when I am turning right!! when I turn left!! WOW its great!!!!

You sure you didn't have a Nascar guy working on your car? lol

Hope you get this in time. If you don't find the rubbing right away, try to jack the wheels up so there's weight on the suspension. If you still can't find it, then it may be a problem with the steering.

Cowan480
08-09-08, 12:00 PM
ok.. looks like norm is on to something here.. the clearance between the steering rod and the kooks was like 1/16 of an inch.. with a lil hammering its about 1/8 of a inch clearnace now.. Still have issue but I don't think it's as bad..

Randy, I meant to try that and I forgot!!:banghead:

I have a couple of pics of the clearance if someone would post.. I can't seem to figure out the attacment thing!!:hmm:

does anyone have pics of what it should look like??

Twitch
08-09-08, 01:36 PM
Sorry Cowan, I'm not at my computer right now. I'll post it up tonight.
From the pic you sent. The steering shaft looks very close to the headers.

Cowan480
08-09-08, 01:56 PM
here we go!! I got it!!:D

well almost... guess you all will have to download the thing!! Twich, if you want to post it like the last ones wear it out!! Thanks buddy!

rand49er
08-09-08, 02:10 PM
here we go!! I got it!!:D ...Do you think a piece of paper could slide between there? :suspect:

Looks to me, you've ... er-r, I mean, Norm's found it. If that steering shaft has any eccentricity at all, it's gonna rub on those headers from the looks of it.

Now, what's "the fix?" Dent the header tubes in a bit?

Cowan480
08-09-08, 02:19 PM
haha, I did dent them in but the dent is on the lower side of the shaft and not where it needs to be.. I couldnt get in there where I needed to. I even used a flat peice of metal to slide in there(between the shaft and kooks) and hit it with a 20lb bar and could not dent it where it needed it. How hard is it to take the shaft off so I can dent it where it needs it, but before I do that, what is the likelyhood this is the issue??

Randy, do you know what kind of clearence you have??

rand49er
08-09-08, 02:45 PM
You had me wondering, so I got my rhino ramps down from the loft in the garage, put the car on 'em, and got this pic. Looks like at least 1/2 inch. Why are they so different?

NormV
08-09-08, 02:47 PM
Just two locktighted bolts hold the steering shaft on. Glad your getting close. :)

Norm

Cowan480
08-09-08, 03:11 PM
haha you guys are great!! Randy!! that's funny you did that.. sounds like something I would do!! Thanks for the pic!!

I have no idea why they would be so different. Making a complete guess, I'd have to say the lower header is the one rubbing on mine. Looks like Randy's lower one is mighty close too!! Randy, do you have 1/2 inch of space in the lower one??

I might have a Kooks issue and not a GC issue. My whole build was done at the same time. Its hard to pen point problems when you mod your car all to hell at once.. I hope this is it!!

CTSV_510
08-09-08, 04:50 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2004/44040d1218300814-ground-control-issue-hard-steer-right-headers.bmp.http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2004/44043d1218303877-ground-control-issue-hard-steer-right-steeringheaderresized.jpg

Randy, you look like you have very little clearance too. It looks like my headers have a lot more clearance:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn240/ctsv510/steering1.jpg
.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn240/ctsv510/steering2.jpg

rand49er
08-09-08, 08:39 PM
Amazing how much variation there is. Are these all LS6 motors with Kooks long-tube headers? ... in CTS-Vs?

I can very easily get my fingers between the steering wheel shaft and the closest header tube. Easily a half inch.

Back to you, Cowan, could there be a bit of, for lack of a better word, "slop" in your shaft (<-- oh, that sounds bad!) where when you apply torque it kicks to one side or the other, and when you turn right, it kicks to the side where the header tube is and contacts it? Are those two bolts in the shaft tight?

Just takin' a stab in the dark here.


EDIT: Could you possibly have the wrong LS6 headers? I mean, could those be for, say, a Z06 Vette? (Okay, now I'm REALLY shooting in the dark!)

SkullV
08-09-08, 09:16 PM
Cowan how are your motor mounts? If either of them is busted it could easily create a condition where the engine would lean to the side of the steering shaft.

rand49er
08-09-08, 09:28 PM
Cowan how are your motor mounts? If either of them is busted it could easily create a condition where the engine would lean to the side of the steering shaft.Good call! That is very plausible.

Seattle CTS-V
08-10-08, 02:11 AM
I had the same problem after running the GC setup and the ZO6 endlinks. It was fine for about a year but things "settled" and the car started becoming difficult to turn to the right under moderate suspension loading (ie going around corners to the right in a semi-spirited manner). I ended up having to raise the car a few turns on the GC in the front. The steering shaft was rubbing on the Kooks headers when the car was slammed down low. Raising it up a little provided the necessary clearance. I guess lowering the car changes alot of the geometry of the suspension and anything else even remotely related to the suspension (like steering). It's very easy to diagnose since you'll see a shiny spot on the driver's side header right next to the steering shaft. Anyway, good luck!

Cowan480
08-10-08, 11:26 AM
On to church!! I will have to get back under V next week!! We'll pin it down soon enough!!! You guys are great!

Thanks for all the other pic, Randy Twich and V510!!

rand49er
08-10-08, 01:32 PM
On to church!! I will have to get back under V next week!! We'll pin it down soon enough!!! You guys are great!

Thanks for all the other pic, Randy Twich and V510!!Who's this "Twich" guy anyway?




j/k :D

Cowan480
08-10-08, 03:07 PM
Randy do you feel like taking another picture today?? I just pop the hood on the V and you can see the steering shaff easy from the top. You want to take that pic for me??

Also, I'd like to have you guys give me some suggestions on out to get the header out the way!! I have no idea what the kooks are made out of, how hard they are, or how easy it would be to break something. One thing I am worried about is the seal where headers go into the block. That's the last thing I want to deal with. I hate the sound of an exhaust leak!!

rand49er
08-10-08, 05:15 PM
Ah-h, just saw your request. Queen Vicky is in sleep mode at the moment. I'll see if she'll allow me to lift her skirt for a looksee.

rand49er
08-10-08, 05:36 PM
Randy do you feel like taking another picture today?? I just pop the hood on the V and you can see the steering shaff easy from the top. You want to take that pic for me?? ...Took two pics, both lit from below, one with a flash. Neither pic is much good; FRC is kind of in the way. BTW, header should be stainless steel ... that's what I paid for anyway.

Cowan480
10-27-08, 10:15 PM
Just to get back to everyone on this "CG issue" that was actually not a CG issue after all... I put the torch to my headers last week and finally bent them over about a half an inch. V drives like a dream now. Thanks again for all the help.