: engine swap pipe dreams



stoveguyy
07-18-08, 11:33 PM
hotrodding is all about swaps. has anyone here seen a FWD caddy with a 5.3 motor from a GXP? i was next to a GXP today and wondered if it had ever been attempted? how about a 350 chevy motor in a FWD setup? i bet the odds of finding a rear ended totaled GXP is pretty low.

MisterBlue
07-20-08, 09:52 AM
I suspect the GXP swap would be real headache, as you'd have to custom make a lotta parts. Then, there's the bigger problem of all the engine management controls. Performance-wise, I don't think you'd gain much (if any), the Caddy is a lot heavier than the Ponti.

Using a 350, instead, would add a lotta weight to the front end. If you kept the FWD system, it would probably fail in short order. If you were going to do it, it would be better (though much harder), to go to a RWD configuration. There is one featured on utube with a turbo, and one with a reconfigured RWD.

AJxtcman
07-20-08, 09:11 PM
hotrodding is all about swaps. has anyone here seen a FWD caddy with a 5.3 motor from a GXP? i was next to a GXP today and wondered if it had ever been attempted? how about a 350 chevy motor in a FWD setup? i bet the odds of finding a rear ended totaled GXP is pretty low.

That would be funny
A POS SBC in a Cadillac. WTF is with everyone and the SBC?

What version is that? Gen IV?

I would think a Gen IV Northstar would be the 4.4L SC

I am a SBC guy, but the Northstar is a better design.
With that said the only other thing to bring up is COST
Hey we are talking Cadillac's not Cavalier's
If you are to cheap to fork out the loot give it up and go back to driving a Impala

Destroyer
07-20-08, 10:24 PM
That would be funny
A POS SBC in a Cadillac. WTF is with everyone and the SBC?

What version is that? Gen IV?

I would think a Gen IV Northstar would be the 4.4L SC

I am a SBC guy, but the Northstar is a better design.
Yeah, the Northstar is a better design alright. 0-blown headgasket faster than any POS SBC ever could. The SBC is THE most respected motor ever. Dont mess with it!. You still proved NOTHING!. Lets see you get a Northstar to do ANYTHING and come back at that time to tell us what a POS a Chevy V8 is. All talk!.

stoveguyy
07-20-08, 11:35 PM
i was coming at it from a packaging angle. a sbc is much smaller than a dohc motor. why did GM put in a 5.3 in the grand prix's and bonnevilles? thats a tight fit too. maybe the bonne has a little more room under the hood. how does the 5.3 compare in size to the sbc?

CadillacSTS42005
07-21-08, 12:02 AM
Yeah, the Northstar is a better design alright. 0-blown headgasket faster than any POS SBC ever could. The SBC is THE most respected motor ever. Dont mess with it!. You still proved NOTHING!. Lets see you get a Northstar to do ANYTHING and come back at that time to tell us what a POS a Chevy V8 is. All talk!.

dude that went past harsh and directly to completely unnecessary and utterly rude...

Raze
07-21-08, 01:25 PM
Back to the origional question: I don't think there have been any really slick swaps for the N* but there's nothing preventing it. I think most people don't mod the FWD later 90s Caddies due to packaging space, cost, and getting around the electronics to make it work with the factory supplied setup. There's nothing stopping anyone from swapping the engine/trans out for another provided either the wiring harness and controllers are swapped in from the donor and sufficient bypasses are made to any remaining connectors not in use. There's also nothing stopping someone from swapping in any engine, or using the N* with a stand alone or custom piggy back engine managment system to crank the power and mod the piss out of whatever engine they choose, but a FWD platform is usually a poor starting point due to the difficulty of keeping a FWD auto transmission together at high power...

AJ, saying a SBC is crap is an insult to most everyone because of how simple, small, and easy they are to mod and almost all come in RWD layout which is superior for everything from power to handling. I would agree older iron SBCs are 'junk' in stock format but how bout a SBC stroker that can put down 600+ HP naturally aspirated? I personally wouldn't touch an older series engine unless it was a new aluminum block cast w/alum heads, or an LSx series...

Destroyer, eat a slice of humble pie...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ytocPEdmsk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsLV8UfQKbg
and if you still don't think N*s can be built:
http://www.chrfab.com/ <--- my personal favorite is one of the 2000HP N*s they built a while back

AJxtcman
07-21-08, 03:00 PM
The 5.3L DOD engine is not what you think it is. I own one in my 2005 TrailBlazer. The FWD version has some changes to it also. How can you mount the starter? The trans is in the way. Oh the starter is attached over the bellhousing :yawn:

They have TimeSert kits for them, They Blow Head GSK's. We saw more 2000+ LSx blow head gaskets last year than 2000+ Northstars.

The 3.6L V6 Cadillac engine make 304 hp @ 6400


LS4 303hp @ 5600 & 323 ftlbs @ 4000
The LS4’s aluminum cylinder block shares its basic architecture with the 6.0L LS2 V8 available in the Chevrolet Corvette. This Gen IV small block’s identifying feature is its external knock sensors, moved from inside the V, or valley, to make room for advanced technologies such as AFM. Yet refinements in this latest small block go much deeper, with features such as deep-skirt cylinders, six-bolt cross-threaded main bearing caps, a structural oil pan, and other vibration-reducing, weight-saving design elements.

The 5.3L LS4, however, was designed to mount transversely (sideways), compared to the longitudinal installation of the 6.0L LS2 and every small block V8 before it. Its crankshaft is shortened 13 mm – 3 mm at the flywheel end and 10 mm at the accessory drive end – to reduce the length of the engine compared to the 6.0L. All accessories are driven by a single serpentine belt to save space. The water pump is mounted remotely with an elongated pump manifold that connects it to the coolant passages. Revised oil pan baffles, or windage trays, are incorporated into the LS4 to ensure that the oil sump stays loaded during high-g cornering. With its front-drive layout, the LS4’s exhaust manifolds are joined by a crossover pipe, with a single, high capacity underbody catalytic converter.

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/Photo%20Library/Gen%20IV/Gen%20IV%20Car/08%205.3L%20V8%20LS4%20IMP%20LoR.jpg

:mad2:
I can't see anything wrong with an 08 Northstar! :banghead:
As Sub says apples to apples! 08 to 08
Oh yeah with the GMLAN/CAN you will need a 06 or newer car if you want to run a 5.3L in a Caddy

Destroyer
07-21-08, 08:51 PM
dude that went past harsh and directly to completely unnecessary and utterly rude...
Yeah, well, some things are sacred. The love of the small block Chevy is one of them. They are a dime a dozen and everyone has them but its a hell of a motor and its powered everything from passenger cars to trucks to full boogie dragsters and everything in between since 1955. What does a stock Corvette run vs an XLR?. How about a stock Vette vs an XLR V or a Z06 vs.............?. You get the point.

Destroyer
07-21-08, 08:54 PM
We saw more 2000+ LSx blow head gaskets last year than 2000+ Northstars.



Yeah but there are like 100,000 LSx motors for every 1 Northstar motor on the road. The LSx is in everything!.

AJxtcman
07-21-08, 10:04 PM
What does a stock Corvette run vs an XLR?. How about a stock Vette vs an XLR V or a Z06 vs.............?. You get the point.
7L vs 4.4L hmmmmmmmmm



Yeah but there are like 100,000 LSx motors for every 1 Northstar motor on the road. The LSx is in everything!.

Then why is it that the guy's down under want what I have done?
If the guy's down under had a million 6.0L why will they pay for my Northstar information and go out of their way to build me a program?

The LSx has push rods. They rob power, They flex,
The LSx has lifters that travel and are not stationary
The Northstar used 1.68 to 1 rocker in 00+ engines
Yes the Northstar could have used a closed deck design (SUB), but then I would be talking about what? I need to make a good living. $70K+ and with all the cheap Caddy owners it is getting hard to do that.

Oh yeah what about all the 07 6.2L that blew up?
Oh you didn't mention that why?
You do know that must of the early 07 6.2L grenaded?:mad2:
The 3.6L V6 Cadillac make more horse power than the 5.3L SBC

Destroyer
07-21-08, 11:39 PM
Then why is it that the guy's down under want what I have done?
If the guy's down under had a million 6.0L why will they pay for my Northstar information and go out of their way to build me a program?

The LSx has push rods. They rob power, They flex,
The LSx has lifters that travel and are not stationary
The Northstar used 1.68 to 1 rocker in 00+ engines
Yes the Northstar could have used a closed deck design (SUB), but then I would be talking about what? I need to make a good living. $70K+ and with all the cheap Caddy owners it is getting hard to do that.

Oh yeah what about all the 07 6.2L that blew up?
Oh you didn't mention that why?
You do know that must of the early 07 6.2L grenaded?:mad2:
The 3.6L V6 Cadillac make more horse power than the 5.3L SBC
Sure the Northstar is all of what you said, so are MANY other motors from MANY different manufactures. Most of them have potential and the Northstar doesn't thus far (16 years from introduction), and you have done little in the big scheme of things to change that. Supply vs demand is always the key, the demand for a screamnig Northstar just isn't there. The motors came in big FWD sedans and coupes and the N* suffers from poor design and the notorious H/G problem. There are many '00 and up models already on the board with blown H/G's. Tell you what, get the Northstar to do this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=33C7wqggIRg or this http://youtube.com/watch?v=J3IjX7ON12Q&feature=related and all will be good!.

CadillacSTS42005
07-21-08, 11:45 PM
Yeah, well, some things are sacred. The love of the small block Chevy is one of them. They are a dime a dozen and everyone has them but its a hell of a motor and its powered everything from passenger cars to trucks to full boogie dragsters and everything in between since 1955. What does a stock Corvette run vs an XLR?. How about a stock Vette vs an XLR V or a Z06 vs.............?. You get the point.

lol
last time i checked a 7.0L Vette engine isnt exactly a small block and an unfair comparison to a 4.6L
add to that the XLR was designed to be a lux roadster and the Vette is a sports car and even you should realize your comparing apples to oranges...

Destroyer
07-22-08, 01:38 AM
lol
last time i checked a 7.0L Vette engine isnt exactly a small block and an unfair comparison to a 4.6L
add to that the XLR was designed to be a lux roadster and the Vette is a sports car and even you should realize your comparing apples to oranges...
Yes the Z06 IS a small block, check again. Compare it to a 5.7 LS1 then. Before you cry that the LS1 is bigger, remember that it also has horsepower robbing lifters and only a single camshaft.

Raze
07-22-08, 09:04 AM
Tell you what, get the Northstar to do this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=33C7wqggIRg or this http://youtube.com/watch?v=J3IjX7ON12Q&feature=related and all will be good!.

See page 1, I already posted youtube videos of Mark's 99 STS that is turbo'd, he only recorded 12.5s because he was running 7psi at the time on street tires without his manual shift controller. At last I spoke with him he was high 11s, low 12s on street tires with more boost...

AJxtcman
07-22-08, 08:23 PM
The motors came in big FWD sedans and coupes and the N* suffers from poor design and the notorious H/G problem. There are many '00 and up models already on the board with blown H/G's.
Hmmmmmmm :thehand:
Lets see I think I have done more that I would like 4.6L FORD head gaskets!
Wait oh wait
Didn't they have an extended warranty?
I think they had a TSB

Cadillac's had neither

CadillacSTS42005
07-22-08, 09:40 PM
idk why he stays here
all he does is rag on the N*
he wouldnt really be missed....
troll...

AJxtcman
07-22-08, 09:48 PM
idk why he stays here
all he does is rag on the N*
he wouldnt really be missed....
troll...

No it is good to have another view

CadillacSTS42005
07-22-08, 10:06 PM
another view is one thing
but to constantly bash a motor for his one bad experience is ignorance and arrogance at its finest

AJxtcman
07-22-08, 10:15 PM
another view is one thing
but to constantly bash a motor for his one bad experience is ignorance and arrogance at its finest

Your words are too big I got lost at bad :crying:

CadillacSTS42005
07-22-08, 10:35 PM
i sowwie
lol

Destroyer
07-22-08, 11:51 PM
i sowwie
lolDamn, thats gay!

Destroyer
07-22-08, 11:56 PM
another view is one thing
but to constantly bash a motor for his one bad experience is ignorance and arrogance at its finestYes and no. Not constantly "bashing" the motor for my "one bad experience". I've learned (from hanging in here) that my experience was NOT "one bad experience". Tons of others come in here with that same "bad experience". It is common knowledge amongst car people and mechanics that the Northstar is crap, another GM failure. Your '97 blew the H/G's twice so I dont see your big case for defense. Northstar = Failure. Failure that deminishes the value of the car it came in to nothing within a few short years. Do you realize an '03 Camry is worth more or the same as your STS?.

CadillacSTS42005
07-23-08, 12:17 AM
my 97 blew the hg a 2nd time due to the dealers failure to fix it properly the 1st time which they agreed and why i didnt pay a dime for it and got a loaner for a week
and ill still buy another N* as an STS-V is next on my list
as for the Camery, the question really is, do i care? the fact of their low resale is how i was able to afford it in the 1st place if i cared for its value then i would be looking to sell it not drive it.
add to that im gonna bet my STS has a tad more features options and luxuries than your Toyota and im gonna really press the "i dont give a shyt" button...
i dont find you to be a bad person but there are MANY more horrible engines than the N* but i dont see you pegging them as the worlds most horrid, you seem to be affixed on the N*.

buying a 68K lux sedan for 16,000 with full warranty for another 1.5 years or 10K miles, awesome in my book...

chubbyranger
07-26-08, 09:17 PM
Tons of others come in here with that same "bad experience". Northstar = Failure. Do you realize an '03 Camry is worth more or the same as your STS?.

I dropped $4K to get my N* HGs done. You sold out. Call me stupid or worse. Don't really care. I will drive my STS into the ground and walk, stagger or crawl before you see my chubby butt behind the wheel of a Camry which is no more than an over-rated and over priced automotive transportation appliance. Of course I'd love to have a Camry in my parking spot at work; crushed into a little rusting cube so the seagulls could crap on it. Of course the seagulls usually prefer Fords.

CadillacSTS42005
07-27-08, 01:20 AM
^ post of the day
i stand behind my decision to buy another N* even when my 97 ETC went
and i still paid for the repair and own my 97 ETC
i will NEVER own a 4 cycl engine EVERY period....

Cliff8928
07-27-08, 04:53 AM
i was coming at it from a packaging angle. a sbc is much smaller than a dohc motor. why did GM put in a 5.3 in the grand prix's and bonnevilles? thats a tight fit too. maybe the bonne has a little more room under the hood. how does the 5.3 compare in size to the sbc?

Uhh, the Bonneville got the NorthStar. The 5.3 is only in the W-Bodies. (Impala, MonteCarlo, Grand Prix, LaCrosse/Allure)

Destroyer
07-30-08, 12:32 AM
I dropped $4K to get my N* HGs done. You sold out. Call me stupid or worse. Don't really care. I will drive my STS into the ground and walk, stagger or crawl before you see my chubby butt behind the wheel of a Camry which is no more than an over-rated and over priced automotive transportation appliance. Of course I'd love to have a Camry in my parking spot at work; crushed into a little rusting cube so the seagulls could crap on it. Of course the seagulls usually prefer Fords.
Nobody is telling anyone to buy a Camry. Who needs reliability and good gas mileage plus some resale value anyway, right?. Simply pointing out how the perception of the N* has dragged down the value to cars that cost half as much or less when new. I've been getting a lot of bird shit on my Fords lately not realizing they do it because they prefer Fords. I guess I'll be driving my Seagull shit infested Cobra as I pass by the shop thats fixing your Caddy. :p;)

CadillacSTS42005
07-30-08, 12:46 AM
you mean your Cobra actually spends enough time not dead on the road to drive past our Caddys?
:thumbsup:

AJxtcman
07-30-08, 08:06 AM
Nobody is telling anyone to buy a Camry. Who needs reliability and good gas mileage plus some resale value anyway, right?.

DID YOU MISS SOMETHING?
Results 1 - 10 of about 16,900 for toyota engine sludge problem. (0.25 seconds)

USATODAY.com - Toyota to repay customers with oil-sludge problem (http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002/04/04/toyota-sludge.htm)

OR

Oil Sludge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sludge)





Simply pointing out how the perception of the N* has dragged down the value to cars that cost half as much or less when new. :p;)

This is a problem with GM. GM is working on that issue with the residual value!
GM no longer has a sale every two weeks!
GM is reducing the number of dealerships. This will reduce the number of dealers from selling 3K under invoice just to stay alive.
GM has reduced the number of cars being built and flooding the market. This was a huge problem at year end. Just think about paying 50K for a car in March. Then in September they have left over cars that must go, so they sell them for 20% off. Now you own a car the is about 6 months old with say 6k miles on it. This car is worth less than a new car that cost 40K. Now say you drive that NEW car off the lot and it is worth $5K less, so say that car is worth $35 with 5 miles on it. You have 6K on your car, so say $30K. That is a $20 dollar drop just because GM built too many cars and they have to get rid of them to make room for the new model year. Now if you throw in a model update (08 CTS) this kills the previous years residuals!

Like I said GM is working on this!

This goes back to the Job Banks! GM is paying for guys to sit in the lunch room all day long! They might as well be building a car or truck right? GM has to pay them to be at work correct?
Now if GM lays people off it hurts the economy and GM is trying to do what is best!

Destroyer
07-31-08, 12:44 AM
[SIZE="4"]DID YOU MISS SOMETHING?
Results 1 - 10 of about 16,900 for toyota engine sludge problem. (0.25 seconds)



Right you are. I actually bought not 1 but 2 brand new Camry's in '00. BOTH developed the oil sludge problem you speak of. I had a 5spd CE and the wife had an auto LE. At 38k miles my CE developed the oil sludge problem and was fixed under warranty. I sold it soon thereafter.. Couple of years later my wifes developed the same thing, this time out of warranty so I sold it.

My point was about residual value. Camry's DO have a reputation for reliability but that oil sludge thing is bad. Car ran awful when it got bad. I wouldn't buy another Camry. I have heard that its not an issue anymore. Regardless and despite that problem a less than $20k new Camry still holds more value than a $50k Cadillac of the same vintage. It sucks. As STS2003 said, it does make the car a good deal......................until it breaks.

Destroyer
07-31-08, 08:57 AM
you mean your Cobra actually spends enough time not dead on the road to drive past our Caddys?
:thumbsup:
Very reliable and takes a beating that would make a Northstar blow its head gaskets just thinking about it. ;)

AJxtcman
07-31-08, 09:19 AM
Very reliable and takes a beating that would make a Northstar blow its head gaskets just thinking about it. ;)

I bet over 50% of Toyota engines have leaky head gaskets!
I worked at a Toyota dealer I know. All you have to do is look at the outside of the block very closely and you will find stains from the RED coolant. Just think how much staining a teaspoon will leave. Since you change your coolant every 12K or 15K you never know it is low!
Toyota does not recommend fixing them. That is because a new head gasket won't.
WTF about all the piston knock when cold. Same thing! Toyota says it is a normal part of the engine coming up to temp! :histeric:

Destroyer
08-01-08, 12:39 AM
I bet over 50% of Toyota engines have leaky head gaskets!
I worked at a Toyota dealer I know. All you have to do is look at the outside of the block very closely and you will find stains from the RED coolant. Just think how much staining a teaspoon will leave. Since you change your coolant every 12K or 15K you never know it is low!
Toyota does not recommend fixing them. That is because a new head gasket won't.
WTF about all the piston knock when cold. Same thing! Toyota says it is a normal part of the engine coming up to temp! :histeric:You quoted me out of context. I was talking about my Cobra Mustang with an '04 Mach 1 motor.:thehand:

Highline Cady
08-01-08, 01:19 AM
I bet I pound my N* more than you even drive that mustang.

CadillacSTS42005
08-01-08, 02:09 AM
ditto
he must not know how i beat the piss outta my STS on backroads do he?
i love Magnaride...
i take turns in my car that your glorified Mustang would spin 360s over...
:stirpot:

Destroyer
08-01-08, 08:29 PM
ditto
he must not know how i beat the piss outta my STS on backroads do he?
i love Magnaride...
i take turns in my car that your glorified Mustang would spin 360s over...
:stirpot:You are joking right?. You think your Magnaride handles better than a Cobra?.

Destroyer
08-01-08, 08:31 PM
I bet I pound my N* more than you even drive that mustang.
This is a family website, we didn't need to know that.:eek:

NHRATA01
08-02-08, 03:46 PM
lol
last time i checked a 7.0L Vette engine isnt exactly a small block and an unfair comparison to a 4.6L
add to that the XLR was designed to be a lux roadster and the Vette is a sports car and even you should realize your comparing apples to oranges...

Of course it is, it uses the same basic LSx block of every other variant. Don't tell me you actually think that small vs. big block is solely determined by the displacement?

And sorry but to be blunt, the LSx has the N* beat in about every facet save NVH. Durability, power capability, cost, size, and weight among others. The N* is a nice motor, I enjoy mine. Maybe with a clean sheet revision it would leap over the LSx's. But just because it has more cams, and puts them in the heads instead of the block doesn't mean it is more advanced. The import guys try the same line, and they get left in the dust for their troubles.

NHRATA01
08-02-08, 03:52 PM
ditto
he must not know how i beat the piss outta my STS on backroads do he?
i love Magnaride...
i take turns in my car that your glorified Mustang would spin 360s over...
:stirpot:

Sorry man, I'm not a Mustang guy but an IRS Cobra is going to outhandle an STS on any surface. The heft, weight distribution and drivetrain layout put the STS at a severe disadvantage.

CadillacSTS42005
08-02-08, 10:50 PM
apparently the sarcasm was lost in typing...

AJxtcman
08-03-08, 10:40 AM
Of course it is, it uses the same basic LSx block of every other variant. Don't tell me you actually think that small vs. big block is solely determined by the displacement?

And sorry but to be blunt, the LSx has the N* beat in about every facet save NVH. Durability, power capability, cost, size, and weight among others. The N* is a nice motor, I enjoy mine. Maybe with a clean sheet revision it would leap over the LSx's. But just because it has more cams, and puts them in the heads instead of the block doesn't mean it is more advanced. The import guys try the same line, and they get left in the dust for their troubles.

An air pump is an air pump!
put a 4.8L in an F body and a 4.6L Northstar in an F body and that would be "apples to apples"
I think the Northstar will out flow a 4.8L head and may be even a 6.0l head. Back to the air pump thing again

And to everyone that doesnt know the LSx and the Northstar Share a lot of non internal components.
(LS1 MAF)

NHRATA01
08-03-08, 11:15 PM
An air pump is an air pump!
put a 4.8L in an F body and a 4.6L Northstar in an F body and that would be "apples to apples"
I think the Northstar will out flow a 4.8L head and may be even a 6.0l head. Back to the air pump thing again

And to everyone that doesnt know the LSx and the Northstar Share a lot of non internal components.
(LS1 MAF)

Well, there's not much difference between the 4.8/5.3/5.7/6.0 Gen III heads, other than the 4.8/5.3 are 1.89/1.55 int/exh valve, and the 5.7/6.0 are 2.0/1.55, the port volume is about the same across the different castings, and of course they're modular and can be easily swapped. Stock, the 4.8/5.3/5.7 heads will flow about 230cfm on the intake side, the 6.0s about 240, and the LS6's almost 260. Ported stock casting will hit 300. Actually before aftermarket castings came out, most N/A LS1 guys swapped to 5.3 heads to bump up the compression since the chamber is smaller, and the FI guys swapped to 6.0 heads to drop it due to the larger chamber. What do the N* heads flow, out of curiousity?

And the newer oval port L92 and LS7 heads are pushing over 330cfm stock on the intake side, which is pretty damn impressive for a stock head. Ported stock LS7 castings have now hit over 400 on the intake, a number that can shame quite a few BBC "race" heads.

Then besides the great head design, add in the other design advantages, like the 6-bolt mains, deep skirt block, and semi-closed deck design and its a pretty damn good motor. I mean hell, they did take the learning from the N* design and apply it to improve upon it. You had guys making 1200hp and going 8s on the stock aluminum block and crank, and quicker with iron 6.0 blocks. About the only concession they made was the 4 bolt heads, so early on there were some lifting issues with alot of spray or boost (like 800+hp worth of either). But studs took care of that and the aftermarket and GMPP 6 bolt blocks are holding well past 2000hp and the motor is finally getting popular in NHRA. And it's already won multiple ALMS races in the C5/C6R program.

Again, the Northstar is a fine motor, but the LSx motors took a big leap ahead from both a street and racing standpoint. To make the same tired remarks about it having pushrods is just sounding like a ricer. Especially when they will rev higher than alot of DOHC motors like the N* and Ford mod motors.

AJxtcman
08-03-08, 11:53 PM
Well, there's not much difference between the 4.8/5.3/5.7/6.0 Gen III heads, other than the 4.8/5.3 are 1.89/1.55 int/exh valve, and the 5.7/6.0 are 2.0/1.55, the port volume is about the same across the different castings, and of course they're modular and can be easily swapped. Stock, the 4.8/5.3/5.7 heads will flow about 230cfm on the intake side, the 6.0s about 240, and the LS6's almost 260. Ported stock casting will hit 300. Actually before aftermarket castings came out, most N/A LS1 guys swapped to 5.3 heads to bump up the compression since the chamber is smaller, and the FI guys swapped to 6.0 heads to drop it due to the larger chamber. What do the N* heads flow, out of curiousity?

And the newer oval port L92 and LS7 heads are pushing over 330cfm stock on the intake side, which is pretty damn impressive for a stock head. Ported stock LS7 castings have now hit over 400 on the intake, a number that can shame quite a few BBC "race" heads.

Then besides the great head design, add in the other design advantages, like the 6-bolt mains, deep skirt block, and semi-closed deck design and its a pretty damn good motor. I mean hell, they did take the learning from the N* design and apply it to improve upon it. You had guys making 1200hp and going 8s on the stock aluminum block and crank, and quicker with iron 6.0 blocks. About the only concession they made was the 4 bolt heads, so early on there were some lifting issues with alot of spray or boost (like 800+hp worth of either). But studs took care of that and the aftermarket and GMPP 6 bolt blocks are holding well past 2000hp and the motor is finally getting popular in NHRA. And it's already won multiple ALMS races in the C5/C6R program.

Again, the Northstar is a fine motor, but the LSx motors took a big leap ahead from both a street and racing standpoint. To make the same tired remarks about it having pushrods is just sounding like a ricer. Especially when they will rev higher than alot of DOHC motors like the N* and Ford mod motors.

I have a sheet around the house some place on a set of heads that BPE racing heads did a 5 angle valve grind on, cleaned the castings slightly, flow check and bent the customer over for a total of $1200.
I mean just barely cleaned the castings. Maybe with a bead blaster :histeric:
I will try to find it

NHRATA01
08-04-08, 05:50 PM
Ouch, thats brutal! Though for a unique job like a Northstar head, I'm not too suprised. You could pay a seasoned porter probably $500 to do an LSx set, $300 for an SBC head, but something he hasn't seen much of is going to set ya back a bit.

AJxtcman
08-04-08, 08:52 PM
Cadillac Hot Rod Fabricators Northstar powered '32 Ford

http://www.bpeheads.com/images/32fordcad.jpg

LINK BPE HEADS (http://www.bpeheads.com/32fordcad.htm)

Submariner409
08-04-08, 10:29 PM
:lildevil:..........and just exactly what does that have to do with a FWD Seville/Deville???? (Nice car, BTW, but far better with a tricked flathead...needs something other than a nylon screen grille.)

I can post pics of all sorts of Olds 455 and GM 454 car and boat engines in everything from a '70 442 to a 1934 Dodge Brothers Town Car to a Donzi Sweet 16......enough to make you puke......and none of them have a thing to do with a FWD Seville or Deville.

This is a FWD Northstar forum.....anything else is smoke and mirrors.

Destroyer
08-05-08, 12:33 AM
Cadillac Hot Rod Fabricators Northstar powered '32 Ford

http://www.bpeheads.com/images/32fordcad.jpg

LINK BPE HEADS (http://www.bpeheads.com/32fordcad.htm)
A DOHC mod motor would be much more appropriate in that car. Especially a blown one (but not H/G blown). :histeric:

AJxtcman
08-05-08, 09:24 AM
:lildevil:..........and just exactly what does that have to do with a FWD Seville/Deville???? (Nice car, BTW, but far better with a tricked flathead...needs something other than a nylon screen grille.)

I can post pics of all sorts of Olds 455 and GM 454 car and boat engines in everything from a '70 442 to a 1934 Dodge Brothers Town Car to a Donzi Sweet 16......enough to make you puke......and none of them have a thing to do with a FWD Seville or Deville.

This is a FWD Northstar forum.....anything else is smoke and mirrors.

$1200 bill to have a 5 angle valve job done on a set of heads for a 2002 ETC!

The heads were done at BPE! BPE and CHRFAB have worked together!
I installed the Slightly Touched heads on the 2002 ETC and a 99 ETC walked it SOOOOOOOOOOO bad the owner sold it with in a month!

camaroz1985
12-18-08, 01:07 PM
I'm currently looking to swap a Northstar into another vehicle. Does anyone know or can take some quick measurements for me for the distance from the transmission mating surface to the front of the pulleys?

Thanks in advance for any help.

97EldoCoupe
12-19-08, 05:46 PM
camaroz1985 I'm working on a N* right now, assembly process. I'll send the measurements after I finish the engine later tonight.

Destroyer, with all do respect you have a nice Mark VIII, and you seem to have a good head on your shoulders but bashing the N*s is not going to go over well with the Cadillac owners who appreciate the styling and engineering of the engines and the cars they're in. You had a bad experience- yes so have I when I bought my first Cadillac, so have many others. I've done the HGs on damn near 50 cars and all of the owners are in love with their cars- FOR A REASON. Only a few of my customers have sold their cars and that was because they bought them cheap with bad HGs and flipped them.

I bet you were in love with your Deville too- until the HGs blew. It was a beautiful machine man! You have good taste!!!

My proposition for you- stop calling the Northstars a POS- I will do the HGs on any Cadillac that you buy cheap that has blown HGs, and then I want you to run the living hell out of it- it will not blow it's HGs again. The only real design flaw of the N* can be fixed (and that's not entirely a design flaw, it comes with age). They are awesome engines- smooth, powerful, quiet, fuel efficient, and can be made to perform as well. It doesn't mean they're superior to other engines, I'm a SBC man too. But a 32 valve, DOHC aluminum V8 that pumps out over 1HP/C.I. and does it so damn well...

I've got a black Deville 99 that will have the HGs done early next year, that I'll be selling unless I decide to soup it up. Buy it from me, and run the hell out of it and TRY to blow the HGs- they will handle everything you throw at it.

97EldoCoupe
12-19-08, 10:36 PM
NORTHSTAR MEASUREMENTS:

Bellhousing mounting surface to outer edge of balancer - 22.5 inches
Bellhousing mounting surface to very end of balancer bolt- 23.25 inches

8 cylinders in less than 2 feet! Not bad!

Hope this helps

Destroyer
12-20-08, 09:04 PM
camaroz1985 I'm working on a N* right now, assembly process. I'll send the measurements after I finish the engine later tonight.

Destroyer, with all do respect you have a nice Mark VIII, and you seem to have a good head on your shoulders but bashing the N*s is not going to go over well with the Cadillac owners who appreciate the styling and engineering of the engines and the cars they're in. You had a bad experience- yes so have I when I bought my first Cadillac, so have many others. I've done the HGs on damn near 50 cars and all of the owners are in love with their cars- FOR A REASON. Only a few of my customers have sold their cars and that was because they bought them cheap with bad HGs and flipped them.

I bet you were in love with your Deville too- until the HGs blew. It was a beautiful machine man! You have good taste!!!

My proposition for you- stop calling the Northstars a POS- I will do the HGs on any Cadillac that you buy cheap that has blown HGs, and then I want you to run the living hell out of it- it will not blow it's HGs again. The only real design flaw of the N* can be fixed (and that's not entirely a design flaw, it comes with age). They are awesome engines- smooth, powerful, quiet, fuel efficient, and can be made to perform as well. It doesn't mean they're superior to other engines, I'm a SBC man too. But a 32 valve, DOHC aluminum V8 that pumps out over 1HP/C.I. and does it so damn well...

I've got a black Deville 99 that will have the HGs done early next year, that I'll be selling unless I decide to soup it up. Buy it from me, and run the hell out of it and TRY to blow the HGs- they will handle everything you throw at it.
This is a VERY old thread. Way before you came along and I haven't posted on it since then.......till now. My feeling for N* cars haven't changed but I think I've mellowed a bit since this. :cool2:

BlackCaddy87
12-24-08, 08:51 PM
I love the 572 in the caddy. I wish I had the money to give them my car along with a blank check and tell them to have fun.

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