: Ignition Switchover



Sasquatch
06-08-04, 04:40 PM
:cool: Just purchased an HEI for my 69 Caddy hearse with a 472 and regular points setup. Gonna install it soon and thought I would post hear and ask if anyone has ever done such a change over and the proper procedure to do so. Here's the description and picture of the dist. I bought. Don't see a single wire coming from it so where do I hook the lead to the dist.?CADDILAC - OEM - HEI - fits 472c.i. and 500 c.i. engines - 1 wire hookup - New Performance Distributor Cap + New Rotor, New Coil. - New Adjustable Vacum advance unit -- ignition module has been tested Good -- Very Good Cond. - *Complete* - used-

http://i2.ebayimg.com/01/i/01/e6/73/23_1.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2480555008&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAB:US:6#ebayphotohosting)

Angela Desmond
06-08-04, 07:38 PM
The part on the lower left of your picture usually has "BAT" printed on it over the stake on connector that it goes to. It might say "B+" also. That's what your primary wire from the coil goes to. The other connection should say"Tach".

Dead Sled
06-08-04, 09:55 PM
try this

http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/hei.htm

barge master
06-10-04, 10:45 AM
Nice link from Dead Sled. It's worth a mention that the plug gap should be increased to .060.That extra power can jump farther,creating a larger spark,hence the benefit of HEI.

Bad69Cad
01-22-05, 10:37 PM
should the gap be increased in cases where the whole distributor is replaced with hei? or does the same go for conversions such as ignitor, mallory unilite etc...

DaveSmed
01-22-05, 11:00 PM
Depends on if you bypass the resistor wire when your at it. Even if you do, don't go quite as wide as .060 but you can increase it from stock (due to the higher coil voltage)

Dead Sled
01-23-05, 10:56 PM
the more power you can sent to the plug wider the gap can be. big hot spark will ignite the fuel better and more evenly. some times with the older points systems you could blow out the spark like a candle

Sasquatch
01-24-05, 06:55 AM
Wow funny to see this thread come back. It''s almost been a year since I posted. Still haven't installed my HEI dist. yet. The car has been running great and felt if it aint broke don't fix it. I do want to eventually install the HEI though. Had other things to do and can't seem to get to it. Never done one before but checking the links and talking with people seems like it shouldn't be that hard.

patgizz
01-27-05, 10:22 PM
definitely do replace the resistor wire with a 10-12ga wire when you get around to doing the swap.

lux hauler
01-28-05, 01:46 AM
HEI install.........
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=128810&postcount=7

Sasquatch
01-31-05, 06:59 AM
Still sounds a little tricky with the timing issues and all. I guess I should just jump in there and try it. I've never done one before and I'm a little hesitant.

69CDV
04-03-05, 06:35 AM
Just a few questions as to how your install went...

First off, how did you manage to remove the old distributor? I can see a 1/2" nut that looks to be holding down the distributor, but it's tucked down in there so far that I can't get a socket on it at a proper angle, and the A/C compressor is in the way so I can't get a wrench on it either...

Secondly, which wire is resistive? The pink one going from the steering column to the firewall harness, or the clear braided-looking one that goes from the firewall up to the coil?

Third... Plug wires. Can I still use the same 7mm wires I'm using with my points setup?

Other information:
I've got an Accel Billetproof Distributor and an Accel Super Coil (PN #140001) for my '69 Coupe deVille with the factory 472. Is this really considered HEI, even though the coil isn't on the cap?

guidematic
04-03-05, 09:38 AM
I have done this conversion on my '70 Fleetwood.

It is pretty starightforward, really.

Remove the old distributor, wires, coil and colil bracket. But before you yank out the old dist, referance the rotor so that you can install the new dist in the same place. You will notice that as you pull out the dist, the rotor will turn. Take this into account so that when you install the new dist, the rotor will turn back, and properly engage the oil pump drive and drop right into place. If you do not do it this way, the dist will drop in one tooth behind, making it all but impossible to time properly, and you will have to revert to the time consuming method of setting the engine to #1 cylinder .....

It is not necessary to replace or by-pass the resistor wire. I have done many of these conversions, and have never done this. Add an extension to the wire that went to the + on the old coil with a female spade terminal. If you can score the original type connector, all the better. Install this to the Batt terminal on the distributor.

You will need to replace the old wires with 8mm silicon wires. I have always spec'd out Delco wires from a 1977-79 deVille 425. They are a perfect fit.

Also, you will notice a very tight clearance between the compressor/PS belts. That is OK unless they actually rub. The belts may touch the cap at times, but never enough to cause any worries. I have rub marks on the cap of mine, and it has been that way for almost 10 years!

I installed Rapid Fire #3's on mine, gapped to 0.060", but you can also use AC/Delco R44XLS6's gapped at 0.060".

Set base timing to 10 BTDC and hook the vacuum advance to manifold vacuum. This will give a noticeable improvment in response and power over hooking the advance to ported vacuum. But, the use of premium fuel is a must. The improvement in power, response and fuel economy will more than make up for the cost if you were getting by with regular before.

Mike

guidematic
04-03-05, 09:44 AM
Sorry, I posted before I answered all your questions.

Unless it is the coil in cap, it is not considered HEI. HEI is generally referred to the OEM electronic distributors that GM began using in 1974. The aftermarket systems are variations on the old set ups, but with an electronic triggering mechanism replacing the points. An example would be the Pertronix conversions.

You will need to use a long extension and a flex socket to remove the distributor hold down nut. Be carefull not to drop the hold down and nut into the black hole in the front of the engine when you get it loose. This is where good manual dexterity becomes important!

Mike

The Ape Man
04-03-05, 11:38 AM
It is not necessary to replace or by-pass the resistor wire. I have done many of these conversions, and have never done this.

Mike

The reason that the resistance wire can be left in place with an H.E.I. conversion is that the more modern setup with it's short coil primary ignition coil pulses will draw a whole lot less current than the coil and points. Less current draw = less Voltage drop across the resistor.

69CDV
04-03-05, 04:35 PM
Thanks much for the answers!

Now for me to find a flex-socket...

Sasquatch
04-04-05, 06:49 AM
According to the link provided by Dead Sled, the resistance wire must be replaced. Not saying one way or the other just pointing out that this is what is said in these install directions. I did replace mine. Here's the link. http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/hei.htm

lux hauler
04-04-05, 11:28 AM
Everything I've ever read on the subject said to replace the original wire.

BluEyes
04-04-05, 11:54 AM
Definately replace the resistance wire. HEI's have an electronic module in them to run the ignition that is designed to run on 12V. Lots of people have had problems after a HEI conversion due to not replacing the resistance wire. If you've gotten away with not doing it, I'd say you're lucky, but you probably aren't getting the full benefit of electronic ignition.

Also, don't go to 0.060" gap unless you've got an aftermarket coil and module in there that tells you to. The factory stock gap for HEI is 0.045". That's 50% more than the gap for a points distributor. That extra gap, and the fact that HEI changes the dwell based on RPM should give you more than enough gains.

Oh, and the distributor hold-down nut is 9/16" IIRC. Yeah, it is in a PITA location - even my distributor wrench doesn't reach it well.

DaveSmed
04-05-05, 02:00 AM
Theroetically, with a significantly reduced load it wouldnt be a problem. However, in practice, I can't say for sure wether or not the load is dropped to the point that leaving the wire affects it or not. Checking is easy enough, With the motor running, measure the voltage at the BAT terminal of the HEI connected through the resistor wire. If you see full voltage, your good to go. I just suspect that you wouldn't. Even the old points styles had the resistor bypass for that extra "kick in the arse" during cranking. It's easy enough to bypass too, IIRC the wiper feed works well on '68s (I think thats what I used...) Looked at the diagram, and it was hot during cranking as well as run.

BluEyes
04-05-05, 12:00 PM
I'm used to them using the third terminal on the starter for the +12V during cranking on points.

I've tested voltage at the coil on several points cars with the ignition in 'run' but the motor off, and they've all been around 6V even with no load.

The Ape Man
04-05-05, 01:32 PM
If you measured 6 Volts then there must have been a Voltage drop in the resistor. In order for a resistor to drop Voltage, there has to be a load. I=V/R.
Your measurement was probably taken with the points closed and current flowing through the coil primary. You should have measured very close to battery Voltage without a load.

Sasquatch
04-21-05, 03:43 PM
Here's a pic of my 472 in my hearse with the new HEI ignition. (Notice the skull air breather nut) Also included one of my custom gas cap I made.



http://images5.theimagehosting.com/HearseEngine1.jpg (http://www.theimagehosting.com/)

http://images5.theimagehosting.com/HearseGasCap.jpg (http://www.theimagehosting.com/)

Smoking Tire
04-23-05, 12:45 PM
You are a dumbass ***. 1st of all why put an HEI in a 1969 Cadillac instead of buying a breakerless ignition kit that fits right inside the distributor for a stock appearance and a higher voltage ignition coil??? :confused: You reduced the value big time. :D 2ndly you have no respect for the dead people that once rode in the hearse to put a skull gas cap, breather and an Edelbrock air filter and other junk like a wierd power steering pump and god knows what else. :helpless: Then on top of that you're a general idiot that dont know shit about cars, when you modify any car it reduces the value badly and that is what you did. Edelbrock is for racing cars not classic's you dumbass. What have you been smoking and drinking huh??? :drinker Humanoid bastards like you make me sick. :rant2: Bye butt pirate.

lux hauler
04-23-05, 12:57 PM
You are a dumbass ***. 1st of all why put an HEI in a 1969 Cadillac instead of buying a breakerless ignition kit that fits right inside the distributor for a stock appearance and a higher voltage ignition coil??? :confused: You reduced the value big time. :D 2ndly you have no respect for the dead people that once rode in the hearse to put a skull gas cap, breather and an Edelbrock air filter and other junk like a wierd power steering pump and god knows what else. :helpless: Then on top of that you're a general idiot that dont know shit about cars, when you modify any car it reduces the value badly and that is what you did. Edelbrock is for racing cars not classic's you dumbass. What have you been smoking and drinking huh??? :drinker Humanoid bastards like you make me sick. :rant2: Bye butt pirate.
Troll......:cookoo:
BTW, someone correct me if I'm incorrect but isn't that power steering pump original to a hearse and used somehow with the suspension? If I am correct, it would seem that it's Smoking Tire that's "a general idiot that dont know shit about cars".:rolleyes2

Sasquatch
04-23-05, 06:08 PM
I think his name should be smoking pole. That is not a power steering pump dumbass it's a hydraulic pump for the stock leveling system in the car. Why buy a "kit " for my dist. When I can have the real thing. Anytime you wanna meet up I'll be more than happy to stomp a hole in your ass. Go back to playing with your hotwheels.

Colt D
07-17-05, 03:15 PM
Here's a pic of my 472 in my hearse with the new HEI ignition. (Notice the skull air breather nut) Also included one of my custom gas cap I made.



Sasquatch, nice pic. I know the thread is a bit old, but I have a question on your Driv. Side valve cover breather. How is your breather hose hooked up? Did you tee it to the PCV line going to the carb? I have an Eddy carb too, (68 Deville) but I'm using the stock cleaner. Because of the height difference, the stock breather won't plug into the cleaner, so I bought an aftermarket open air breather. I'd rather try to capture some of the combustion gasses to reduce the gas smell, but I don't want to suck up oil into the manifold in the process. Please let me know. Brands, part numbers, and hose sizes would also help.

(I love your skull air cleaner nut)

Sasquatch
07-17-05, 04:58 PM
Okay I took some pictures. The driver side valve cover is where the engine draws in air. I think from the previous pics it appears that I have this Edelbrock Oil breather connected to the air breather like the stock set up. As you can see this is not the case from the side view. Since this is where the engine draws IN air you have the option to allow it to draw the air in this fashion. When the gases escape from the left side valve cover they are fed into the Carb. at the front and then burned off through the manifold along with the air gas mixture. The Edelbrock Oil breather would not fit the stock 472 Valve covers. So I had to cut the hole bigger in the right side valve cover in order to accept the 1 1/4" neck of the Edelbrock Oil Breather. I've included pics of the valve cover with the grommet in and out. I also had to use a different rubber grommet now since the hole was a different size. After some experimentation with a few different ones the best fit I found was the one in the picture of the packaging it came in. The valve cover did have to be removed to cut the hole bigger. I used a hole saw but if I had it to do again I think a Dremel tool would work better. The number on the package is 42324 (for Ford and Mercury) and was obtained at Advanced Discount Auto parts. I did have to shave some rubber out from the inside of it but the Edelbrock Oil Breather fits very snuggly now and I have had no problems. Those black lines running behind the Oil Breather are part of the LEV-L-MATIC system in the car for loading and unloading caskets. Hope this helps.

http://images5.theimagehosting.com/EdelbrockOilBreather.jpg (http://www.theimagehosting.com/) http://images5.theimagehosting.com/EdelbrockOilBreatherBottom.jpg (http://www.theimagehosting.com/) http://images5.theimagehosting.com/ValveCoverGrommettIn.1.jpg (http://www.theimagehosting.com/)
http://images5.theimagehosting.com/ValveCoverHole.1.jpg (http://www.theimagehosting.com/) http://images5.theimagehosting.com/Packaging.jpg (http://www.theimagehosting.com/)

Colt D
07-17-05, 06:14 PM
Thanks for the details. Yes, the Lev-L Matic hoses were misleading. If the D's Side just takes in air, I'm probably OK. Except my gas smell must now be from a leak in the fuel line. I'll check when its not 114* outside.

For my breather, I used an off-brand (possibly Mr. Gasket) breather that fit the stock valve cleaner perfectly. I bought it at Checker Auto in the chrome aisle. It's not stamped, just basic chrome and not as tall as the Edelbrock breather. Otherwise, it looks the same. Next time I'm there, I'll get the model number and post in case anybody is interested.

BTW, did you ever rig up your factory kick down to work with your Eddy Carb, or did you just leave it off? I worry about taking the car out of town w/o the ability to auto downshift for passing as well as for steep grades.

Sasquatch
07-17-05, 07:14 PM
Yeah I saw those oil breathers as well. I just wanted the Edelbrock one to match the air breather. I never did anything to my kickdown. My tranny still kicks down. I believe it is due to the vac. line running to the tranny modulator. Anybody else wanna weigh in on this. I know when I put the pedal down the car will downshift on it's own.

Colt D
07-17-05, 08:32 PM
Sasquatch, I wish my Conv did that. It accelerates when I punch it, but not nearly what it did when it kicked down. I wonder if your car enjoys something exclusive to hearses. I thought the vacuum to the tranny was associated with upshift points and not downshifting. I was hoping to connect my stock kick-down backwards behind the carb somewhere. Let's see who else weighs in on this, although this thread is now off-topic. I just don't want to start another Q-Jet v. Eddy war going. :hide:

I've read those posts. That debate is like manifold v. ported vacuum to advance, abortion, the death penalty, and Iraq: Nobody is going to change their minds.
Colt.