: Need some opinions



Sinister Angel
06-08-04, 07:54 AM
Alright, so I'm looking at purchasing a pistol after I get back from the lakes. I was originally intending on getting the GSR which I love the styling of, but my friend got me to consider a glock. Well, this made me go down to the local gun shop. Guy there was really cool and had some nice recommendations. I held the Glock 23 (I'm looking at .40SW as my round of choice now) and that was nice, and then I held a SW 4006TSW. Now, I had a sour taste in my mouth about SW when they were owned by that English company which totally f*cked them up, but now that they are American owned again, I have respect for them, and this gun. Damn, this thing felt great. A bit heavier than the Glock (obviously), but it felt a bit better because of such. Here is a pic of the TSW
http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/userimages/104411_large.jpg
However, things got confusing when I went to the range later for the steel shoot (few friends, great guys there had good advice, and I brought the 12 Ga. for bowling pin - my shoulder is sore as shit after 25 rounds of 00 buck). Got to shoot a G23, and it felt damn good. So I'm not sure what I want. I like the feel of both the G23 and the TSW. On the other hand, I kind of like the styling on the TSW better. On a random side note, when I was at Hampel's (the gun shop), I got to hold a Desert Eagle. .44 Mag, but still f*cking huge. Actually, a bit too big for my liking. Anyways, any experience with the G23 or the TSW?

I'm done rambling now.

Elvis
06-08-04, 10:26 AM
That looks absolutely perfect to me.

I have a .380 Walther PPK that looks A LOT like that, but it's probably a good deal smaller. I liked the size of it when I bought it, but after shooting it I wish I had gone a little bigger and heavier. I understand now that it doesn't really have the "knock-down" power that I wanted. I'm thinking about selling it, but have no clue how to go about doing it legally and properly.

Of course, I haven't touched the thing in probably eight years.

lowscola
06-08-04, 01:13 PM
If you don't like the size of the Desert Eagle try the Baby Eagle 9mm, .40, or .45

Msilva954
06-08-04, 02:22 PM
Im w/Elvis....we have a Walther PPK that my father keeps under the seat in his car....and its the perfect size for something like that. We also have a Beretta 92F which is comparable to the same size Glock, alot of people swear by Beretta and Glock...Since Beretta was bought out by the americans, It is such a better gun. Some people my father knows carry Glocks, I hear a Glock can go under water.

Dead Sled
06-08-04, 02:23 PM
Id sugest a SIG P226, its a fine wepon. its my second choice after 1911 styles. Id avoid the beretta 92F at all costs, Glocks are a good wepon depending on the model. If I got a S&W it would be 44mag or S&W .500

Msilva954
06-08-04, 02:32 PM
Why would you avoid the Beretta 92F?? Its the #1 choice for Law Enforcement
Here is the beretta:http://www.berettausa.com/product/images/pistol_fpo_2.jpg
Here is the Walther(James Bond Gun):
http://www.dfwarms.com/images/WALTHER_PPK_SS_USA.jpg

ben72227
06-08-04, 02:42 PM
Its the #1 choice for Law Enforcement
Not anymore, its been surpassed by the Glock (.40SW)


I hear a Glock can go under water.
True. Gaston Glock designed the firing pin for the US Navy so that it could fire underwater. In fact it can fire in nearly anything. You can put it in thick mud, pick it up, and fire it. You can throw it on concrete, pick it up, and fire it. Its a very reliable weapon.

I like Glocks, but i like the style of the Walther P99

Dead Sled
06-08-04, 02:55 PM
beretta were the choice because they were cheep they have since been replaced but SIGs glocks and others

92F is notorious for jamming and an in opritune moment. Ive seen it many times. they were ok for their time but times have changed

Sinister Angel
06-08-04, 03:04 PM
The nice thing about the 226 (my friend just bought one in 9) is that you can swap the barrels between .40 and .357

See, the thing about the Glock and the TSW is that both are the size that I would feel comfy with carrying when I turn 21. It's small enough to pack, but big enough to be comfortable when I wanna pound a few hundred rounds through at the range. Actually, I have the distinct feeling I will have a hard time staying away from the range.

Sinister Angel
06-08-04, 03:04 PM
Oh yeah, any of you guys shoot IDPA?

Dead Sled
06-08-04, 03:30 PM
IDPA sounds fun if I only had the time

have you considered something like a Kimber Pro Carry II? in .40 or .45

or there's the new glock .45GAP I forget which model


too many guns too much fun :D

Msilva954
06-08-04, 05:28 PM
beretta were the choice because they were cheep they have since been replaced but SIGs glocks and others

92F is notorious for jamming and an in opritune moment. Ive seen it many times. they were ok for their time but times have changed

Oh yea, I agree with you to a certain point, we have two, an American made Beretta 92F and an Italian made 92F. We dont even touch the Italian one because of its tendancy to jam...all the time...it actually went off in the house once and went through the door and into the aluminum railing of a sliding glass shower door....luckley it was a horrible thunderstorm outside.

But the American made Berettas are fantastic and problem free, they are soo very accurate. In my opinion the Berettas are sort of "old School", well....not sort of they are. Glocks are the new wave of guns w/new technology. Berettas are becoming the 6 shot guns of today in a way. But I defenitly like the Walther PPK for personal protection.

Dead Sled
06-08-04, 06:42 PM
also with Berettas is you MUST use factory beretta mags anything else is almost garunteed to misfeed and jam

Msilva954
06-08-04, 09:10 PM
And with the Beretta you have to have a good bullet too, that is one reason they used to Jam. Law enforcement down here use those pitted head bullets the ones that drill through bone....they are used only for killing, they go in one way and come out like an explosion on the other. These have never jamed.

I say go with the Glock, its such a very good modern gun...I just never really liked there style.

Sinister Angel
06-09-04, 12:11 AM
Agreed on the style with the glock, but dependable as shit from what I hear.

Ralph
06-09-04, 03:42 AM
also with Berettas is you MUST use factory beretta mags anything else is almost garunteed to misfeed and jam

Funny, I noticed that with my Ruger P-85, it only liked Ruger mags. I really don't like Glocks, the RCMP carry them now in .40 cal, and to me they are just as ugly as hell. Plus, there is just something I don't trust about a polymer/plastic firearm. In the Brigade I carried a Browning "High-Power" or P-35 and I liked it despite being single action, I prefer double. I feel more safe with a round chambered in a double action (safety off) then a single action cocked and locked. Later as an armed guard, I carried a S&W Model 10. Very basic, and very fast handling with speed loaders and very little training. Speer Gold Dot .38 cartridges can make the smaller round hit with the impact energy of a .44 bullit. For carry I would feel confident with a Beretta or even a stubby .44 special revolver.(6 shots that will never jam) I like the modern Ruger P97 in .45 ACP and it only weights 27 ounces, perfect to carry, with good punch. Since I don't live in a truly free country like the U.S., carry won't be my next priority, and I will eventually get a S&W 686 for target practice. Sig 226's are like Swiss watches, built with precision, however, a few years ago they had a problem with weak trigger return springs. I'm sure they addressed this problem by now. That's all I've got to give.

Msilva954
06-09-04, 03:18 PM
I say forget the punny hand guns, get ur self a mans gun; 50Cal....up in Ocala Florida they have some redneck gun collectors that shoot the heads off of dolls and w/ the 50 they just disinagrate the whole target.
http://www.bootsnall.com/images/na/jan02nola3.jpg

Dead Sled
06-09-04, 04:15 PM
I wish Iowa had shall issure CCW permits. almost every country around here the sheriff requires "extreme justification"

and being able to own NFA type II weapons would be great but this state is so far to the left that will never happen. theres a guy close to here who has a ma duce .50cal that he needs to get rid of because he moved here and Iowa dont like machineguns

Msilva954
06-09-04, 05:52 PM
Yea, I wouldnt have one in the city...but out in the country I dont see a prob......all the guys that had them in upper Florida claimed to be "collectors". They even made all their own bullets from shells people leave behind.

Dead Sled
06-09-04, 06:01 PM
sorry about hijacking the thread.

as long as some one is properly licenesed, qualified and responsible I see no reason someone cant have an automatic weapon. 50 cal would be fun but thats more than I can afford. Id personaly like smaller machineguns and sub guns like the M14 and MP5 or the thompson. why cant I have one why why why? people with these guns are very responsible because they know the dangers and certantly dont want that knid of investment taken away because of stupidity.

Ralph
06-09-04, 06:19 PM
I say forget the punny hand guns, get ur self a mans gun; 50Cal....up in Ocala Florida they have some redneck gun collectors that shoot the heads off of dolls and w/ the 50 they just disinagrate the whole target.
http://www.bootsnall.com/images/na/jan02nola3.jpg

Think about the over-penetration liability with such a beast. Sometimes "puny" handguns have advantages, as long as it puts the assailant "down" quickly. .45 ball or 9 hollow p is more than adequate. Up until 10 years ago or so, the only "one shot stop" ever recorded was with a 125 gr. .357 magnum revolver by a police officer in the U.S. (strictly handgun speaking of course) at point blank range on a fellon.

If I ever get into serious hunting rifles, 7mm magnum or 30-06 would suffice without destroying too much of the game. The .308 is enough to take anything in NA. The Eskimo's use .50 cal single shot rifles for their annual whale hunt up north.

Vesicant
06-09-04, 06:36 PM
http://www.waltheramerica.com/images/WAP65000.jpg

Not only is it the new james bond gun ( Walther P99) but man is that thing great looking... http://www.waltheramerica.com/p99_specs.htm

.40 S&W as an option too.

Elvis
06-09-04, 06:59 PM
Agreed on the style with the glock, but dependable as shit from what I hear.

speak for yourself, you young whipper-snapper!

Msilva954
06-09-04, 09:29 PM
new[/i] james bond gun ( Walther P99) but man is that thing great looking... http://www.waltheramerica.com/p99_specs.htm

.40 S&W as an option too.

I still think the PPK has a nicer look to it....this one while being a good gun looks too "industrial" too me. But I guess with function comes the need to reduce style somewhat.....
Talkin about high priced guns....I bet u could get a AK for a good price.:), oh yea, and that 50 talk was just playin....I cant see the need for one unless im on a mountain in WWIII

RBraczyk
06-09-04, 10:14 PM
The problem that most law enforcement officers find with the glock is that when they draw the gun, they end up shooting themselves in the foot because of the glock double trigger which goes off quite easily.

Sinister Angel
06-09-04, 10:51 PM
The problem that most law enforcement officers find with the glock is that when they draw the gun, they end up shooting themselves in the foot because of the glock double trigger which goes off quite easily.


You're kidding, right? http://www.glock.com/_safe_action_.htm

If the cop wasn't handling it like a dumbass, he shouldn't be shooting himself.

Dead Sled
06-09-04, 11:10 PM
You're kidding, right? http://www.glock.com/_safe_action_.htm

If the cop wasn't handling it like a dumbass, he shouldn't be shooting himself.


exactly

pratcice practice practice

start slow working on proper form and body position then move to speed

Dead Sled
06-09-04, 11:14 PM
Talkin about high priced guns....I bet u could get a AK for a good price.:),


in Iraq a AK could be had for 50 bucks a 9mm for $150 7mm for $100 or less frags for $5 RPG launcers were in $200 range. all kinds of fun toys for dirt cheap you name it it was on the black market HiPowers to MP5s

Ralph
06-10-04, 02:06 AM
The problem that most law enforcement officers find with the glock is that when they draw the gun, they end up shooting themselves in the foot because of the glock double trigger which goes off quite easily.

It's not because of the Glock trigger, it is because they were not trained properly to draw with their finger off the trigger. With our Model 10's, for our training, we shot 500 rounds in two days! The purpose of this was to practice the draw, while keeping the finger out of "the danger zone!" I have pics of my hands, and they were red like an apple, especially the palm of the hand by hitting the ejector rod on the revolver!

I don't like it when people blame or sue firearm manufacturers because "the gun just went off." There is no such thing! Guns just don't "go off" there is always someone who was careless in the handling, w/o proper training.

PPK's are nice, but I always prefered the streamlined style of these:

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg103-e.htm

Ralph
06-10-04, 02:34 AM
92F is notorious for jamming and an in opritune moment. Ive seen it many times. they were ok for their time but times have changed

I don't doubt you, but I thought the U.S. military tests were quite stressful on these. I remember reading about how they had to pass torture tests of being rapidly fired while someone pours a cup of sand into them and they had to keep firing! There were three tested in the finals in 1987 or so, and from what I remember, they were the Ruger P-85 (built specifically for these tests with the hope of being adopted)), the Smith and Wesson (can't remember model) and the Beretta 92 F. All passed as far as I know, but supposedly there was some sort of connection already between the U.S. govt and Beretta for some sort of manufacturing plant or ? so they ended up getting the contract.

Personally, I think all semi auto pistols will jam at one time or another. (like you said inopertune time) Whether clean or dirty. The only times my P85 jammed was when I bought some cheap lead reloads from our local gun show. Oh, and one time the slide "caught" an ejecting case and it stopped and had to be cleared.

Sinister Angel
06-10-04, 11:37 AM
Gotta admit though, the P99 looks nice. I think I'd get the titanium finish.

Msilva954
06-10-04, 02:44 PM
Does anyone besides Beretta still Nickle plate and Gold Plate their Guns?????

Sinister Angel
06-10-04, 03:43 PM
Uhh, aren't there some Gold Plated Desert Eagles running around town?

Vesicant
06-10-04, 04:53 PM
Nickel plated too.

Msilva954
06-10-04, 05:33 PM
Interestingly enough I found out that Bond used a Beretta in the first movie...then Q gave him a Walther PPK as the standard issue.:)

That P99 actually looks like a Glock Knock off almost.....

Here is my style:http://www.hpr.com/service_images/2-Custom-Gold-Walther-PPK_S.jpg

Dead Sled
06-11-04, 01:06 AM
Does anyone besides Beretta still Nickle plate and Gold Plate their Guns?????

almost all manufactures do it then there are the custom shops that will make the wild stuff