Well once again im looking for a new vehicle to replace the BMW as now that I have moved to texas it is a little bit too small.

Ive checked out tons of vehicles ranging from 2000 and 2001 Mercedes S430 and Lexus LX470's to BMW 740iL's and Range Rovers but only four vehicles really made the cut, a 2000 S430 Mercedes that is light on features but strong on power, comfort and very stylish, not to mention cheep for that model with less than 50k at 33 grand. Next sedan is the 2001 Lexus LS430 Ultra which features such niceties as laser adaptive cruise control, a cooler in the rear seat armrest and a Mark Levinson audio system. For now, the Lexus is out of the question however because the only ones under 34000.00 which is where I need to stay, have over 55k miles and the finance company wont take them. Im not really interested in the lesser models.

Finally that leaves us with the two SUV options, the 2002 Escalade AWD, or the 2003 Lincoln Navigator Ultimate 2WD (4wd is not really a desirable feature to me on these trucks as they both come with Trac systems standard and there is no real offroading opportunities or needs on such a huge vehicle). Despite the fact that these two beasts have terrible resale value compared to the foreign machines above, they DO combine the best of all the features im looking for. In the lead (but also the worst for resale) is the 2003 Lincoln Navigator Ultimate (the Luxury and Premium lack the features I desire) I found with less than 11k miles for 32 grand (this is great because it means theres still 3.5 years and 39000 miles of warranty left). What really sets the Lincoln apart is the standard feature roster, its got some truly cool stuff like Power running boards, Power fold rear seats, Climate controlled seats, HID lighting, and this one has a Dual screen rear overhead DVD entertainment system. Unfortunately the Navigator carries over its somewhat anemic 300HP 5.4L Triton motor which only gets 0-60 times of 10 seconds (damn Fords, I only recently started liking em).

The Escalade is nice, but I can only afford a 2002 in the newer body (typically with well over 30 thousand miles), and its pretty much left in the dust on the features list and lacks the newer years HID lights, climate controlled seats and all the power features of the Navigator. The only real advantage to the (AWD only) Escalade is the 6.0L engine (i.e. gas hog), and the aggressive look and of course that its a Cadillac. I think it says ALOT for Lincoln that with this model changeover, they single handedly slapped the number 1 spot right out of Cadillacs hands in my top 5 list of SUVs. The previous Navigator was so bad it is completely forgettable, the new one is almost a masterpiece in comparison, it is no wonder really since the thing was co-engineered by Jaguar engineers.

Here is a pic of the Mercedes and the Lincoln:
http://photos2.ebizautos.com/794/348210_4_400.jpg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2004/6/3/164/458/878677789.164458549.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jpg

What do you guys think?

If you need it now , GO GET THE NAVI. You wont be let down...hands down the lincoln has a better interior then all but the Lexus and if you wait another year the Navi will be getting a 6 sp transmission, and the new 3 valve 5.4.....that equates to about 1.5-2 secs quicker to 60.

The mercedes is getting there in age, and they arent known for reliability.

I don't know why, but BMW guys tend to drive Fords. It sounds like you've made up your mind so why ask Cadillac people to validate your decision to buy a Ford? ;)

the s class they are changing up in a year (2006) so i wouldnt go for it unless you want an older generation (i tend to enjoy a model change for at least a few years such as my 2000 DTS) I have NEVER like the lexus's bland and boring styyling. escalades are nice, but completly played out, everyone and tehre mom has an escalade, i would go for the navi. :)

CMON you know you want that NAVI......to bad they dont have the PowerStroke diesel.

If your looking for a luxury SUV with some balls to it then get a Aviator. It has the Mach 1's engine in it so there's plenty of aftermarket for it if you desir to play around with it. And I got our's to do a 15.7 stock *might have been able to go faster but since it wasn't mine I didn't want to power brake it too much* But the Lincoln's have a lot more options then the Escalade's do and I think the Lincolns look better then the Escalade's. But it seems like you already have your mind made up.....so just go and get the Navigator!

If your looking for a luxury SUV with some balls to it then get a Aviator. It has the Mach 1's engine in it so there's plenty of aftermarket for it if you desir to play around with it. And I got our's to do a 15.7 stock *might have been able to go faster but since it wasn't mine I didn't want to power brake it too much* But the Lincoln's have a lot more options then the Escalade's do and I think the Lincolns look better then the Escalade's. But it seems like you already have your mind made up.....so just go and get the Navigator!
Why not an SRX? 0-60 in 6.2 V8 2wd or 6.5 awd!!

I love how people start recommending vehicles that are just absolutely absurdly out of the price range the original post states :p Yes an SRX would be nice but at a near to over 50,000.00 price tag for a new one when once again the Navigator, Aviator and 02' Escalade fall comfortably into the 30-35k range its absolutely no match.

The Aviator idea is somewhat appealing actually because of the engine, but id have to check it out size-wise.

How about a ferrari!

I'm interested in what you finally decide. I have a thing about Fords, they kinda scare me even though I've owned three with relatively few problems.

I don't understand the depreciation thing. The Escalades I've looked at all seemed to be holding their values very well compared to the DeVilles and Sevilles. The Navigators seem to be in the toilet fairly quickly. (But damn, those pictures DO look nice.)

I've driven the new Mercedes S-class and have been VERY impressed. Dunno about reliability yet, but I know my father's last one (previous generation) held up pretty well until 124,000 miles. It was always a pleasure to drive.

I'd go with the Escalade, and right now it looks like I will when my time comes. I had settled on the DeVille but my needs have really changed. I swore against ever considering an SUV, but having to borrow my father's Envoy every other week is geting old. Plus it's very nice, I've grown accustomed to it, and I'm beginning to like it.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

I really wish you weren't so hung up on depreciation Ian. If you like a vehicle, and you plan on keeping it for a longer while, just buy it. I'm sure that 90% of Cadillac owners here don't even consider depreciation, they just buy them because they are the best! :p Personally I agree with Elvis and Blackout. I really like the size of the Aviator, it just makes sense! I also love the interior of the Navagator/Aviator with it's retro satin nickel dash and accents, etc, but despite this, if I win the lotto, I'd buy the Escalade for sheer size and power. I think it's easily the most well known and respected luxury SUV on the planet.

Well, it really might end up being the Navigator so the depreciation issue will just have to settle to the background. The issue with Depreciation is that a vehicle that maintains a strong resale is easier to trade out of or sell in the event that a financial crisis of some sort occurs, I really think THAT far ahead which is why ive been able to keep my finances in order for as long as ive been doing them, in other words ive always got a plan B in case theres a problem that is out of my control.

In any case the Navigator is a technology showcase even without Navigation or DVD Entertainment (which can be added later). My favorite features are actually the power running boards, liftgate and third row seat.

Why not an SRX? 0-60 in 6.2 V8 2wd or 6.5 awd!!Because 1. He's not looking at a SRX and 2. Its butt friggin ugly

The Aviator is nice too, and could be had for a little less then the navi, you may also get better gas mpg with it. I wouldnt worry to much about depreciation as all the cars you mentioned have lost the majority of theirs already, at least your not buying new.

Because 1. He's not looking at a SRX and 2. Its butt friggin ugly
I knew they couldn't give away those pretend Navigators,AKA over priced Explorers in drag known as Aviators, but I didn't know you could buy a used one that cheap! No more than they've sold of them, I'd wonder why nobody wants them! Roll up beside a V/8 SRX sometime with that Explorer, uh, I mean Aviator sometime and tell us what that "butt friggin ugly" rear end looks like from a distance. If it's so ugly, why are they selling and the Aviator is schedualed to be discontiued because they aren't?

On top of all this, the Aviator wasn't mentioned in the original post either!

All you guys that love Fords should spend your time on Ford forums, true Cadillac lovers know the truth, that's why we don't drive Fords!

PS; Can you define 'friggin', how about beauty, oh yea, probably not, you like Fords!:halo:

You have to figure out if you want a sedan or suv. That will make your choice easier. If you want a SUV, the Navigator would be the way to go. If you want a sedan, ditch the S-Class and take a look at a 2002 Q-bouble.

http://www.burtmanindustries.com/q45/priceless.jpg
http://www.burtmanindustries.com/q45/circle_side_top.jpg

Randy_W, the Aviators actually are selling alright, and NO....Ford is not going to discontinue it, once Lincoln gets the 06' new one...this current one will now become the Mercury Mountaineer. The engine alone in the Aviator makes it great plus you get the same interior design as the Navi, which in my opinion is much better then both the Escalade and the SRX....the interior of all the new Caddy's are nothing really special IMO. Name one SUV GM makes that is anywhere near the quality of the Aviator.

We have owned Fords and we currently own a 97' Mustang which has never ever given us any trouble. And I want to get a 03' or 04' F250 or Excursion diesel. Alot of Fords may not look that great but the majority of Fords and Ford owned companies make some of the finest cars in the world not just the US. I myself are a fan of all american made cars even Chrysler. But I still think that all GM cars trail Ford when it comes to style and quality.

It's o.k. to have an opinion, I just feel that coming on a Caddy forum, dissing them, is at best in poor taste. Ford had to stop production on Aviators at one point due to piston failure, yet I haven't seen anyone warn the potential buyer of this. Yet you continue to bash The whole Caddy line. If they were that bad they wouldn't be selling like they are.;)

Not bashing, Not even really giving my opinion, just telling the facts. Of course the caddy's sell good, because they are great driving;looking cars and they have alot going for them and Id have to say that the STS interior is my fav so far. Its just that for the money I think that Caddy could have made the CTS/SRX interior a little less plasticy and a little more woodsy...something that an aftermarket kit cant fix.

But on to the Escalade bashing,:), The Escalade is a fairly good looking truck, one of the better ones out there, but if it were to just come out in say the year 03' or 04' I think that it would have been much better then because of the money GM allowed Caddy to use. Just dressing up a Suburban;Yukon;Ave, is bringing in alot of customers but is is also keeping alot out that actually care about what their car is made up of....which are few. I just see the fact that the last gen and current gen escalade is just like the 1st gen Navigator, Nothing but a badge engineered truck w/some leather and a trim package that brings in alot of younger/more wealthy people in to the showroom.

It's o.k. to have an opinion, I just feel that coming on a Caddy forum, dissing them, is at best in poor taste. Ford had to stop production on Aviators at one point due to piston failure, yet I haven't seen anyone warn the potential buyer of this. Yet you continue to bash The whole Caddy line. If they were that bad they wouldn't be selling like they are.;)Listen kid.....I've been here a lot longer then you have so don't come at me about bashing Cadillac's. You are just very brand biased and as soon as someone says something you don't like you take it as an attack. Ford's SUV's are all around better then anything GM currently has to offer whether you like it or not. As for the luxury SUV's the Lincoln's have standard features that the Escalade can only dream about and the Lincoln's have a lot more options then the Escalade has to offer. So on the up side its faster......wow.........with gas prices as they are now I highly doubt anybody is buying SRX's over the Lincoln's because its faster! But for comparisons sake here's interior shots of all the vehicles....the SRX's looks plasticy but it looks ok, but the Escalade's needs a lot of work, its a Yukon with different gauges and wood trim

Its butt friggin ugly

My fiance thinks it looks like a minivan. :shhh: :p

Alot of car based SUV's in my opinion tend to look like vans..

Listen kid.....I've been here a lot longer then you have so don't come at me about bashing Cadillac's. You are just very brand biased and as soon as someone says something you don't like you take it as an attack. Ford's SUV's are all around better then anything GM currently has to offer whether you like it or not. As for the luxury SUV's the Lincoln's have standard features that the Escalade can only dream about and the Lincoln's have a lot more options then the Escalade has to offer. So on the up side its faster......wow.........with gas prices as they are now I highly doubt anybody is buying SRX's over the Lincoln's because its faster! But for comparisons sake here's interior shots of all the vehicles....the SRX's looks plasticy but it looks ok, but the Escalade's needs a lot of work, its a Yukon with different gauges and wood trim

I doubt you've been at it a lot longer than I have, but thanks for the compliment!;) I'll be 52 in August.
That top Lincoln pic looks like theres an old Kelvinater in the middle of the dash! The bottom pic looks nice, though. As for Ford having better offerings, that's highly subjective, especially looks. Those things are always a matter of opinion. People that buy those are generally not too worried about gas prices.

As for brand bias I have a Seville a Dodge Ram 2500 HD 4X4 and a '67 Impala SS. My wife drives a Montana, my son has a Tahoe, his fiance' has a CRV. My daughter has a Durango and her husband has a Ranger edge. The Ranger has by far the cheapest looking interior, but is otherwise a nice looking truck, it runs o.k. although it uses as much gas as my daughetrs 5.2, 4X4 Durango. It's also the squeekiest and most rattle prone of the group though it is a 2003 and has the least miles on it.
I believe most companies build both good and bad vehicles and it usually comes down to personal preference.
Believe me I have fun on these forums and I take none of it to heart!:coolgleam

but the Escalade's needs a lot of work, its a Yukon with different gauges and wood trim

This is my exact problem with the Escalade, I see this brute from the outside and its absolutely awesome, very aggressive, icy and edgy, then you look inside and it makes for a real disappointment.

Randy... I dont think anyone here is really attacking you personally, but when you come in to someones post that is not actually attacking any brand or viewpoint and the best you can throw in for your first post are comments like "...yea all BMW owners drive Fords anyway" almost in a derrogatory manner it really rubs people the wrong way. I value your suggestions on the SRX and GM SUVs in general just like everyone elses, but I dont think anyone here needs to be bashed for their civil conversation about ANY brand, this forum is one of the, if not THE best car forum online because for the most part, 99 percent of the people here are the most open car loving enthusiasts there are, not just CADILLAC enthusiasts, but lovers of all automobilia in general.

BTW.. How did this end up in CADILLAC non-model specific???

I was wondering the same thing...as it is not just a Caddy thread?????

This is my exact problem with the Escalade, I see this brute from the outside and its absolutely awesome, very aggressive, icy and edgy, then you look inside and it makes for a real disappointment.

Randy... I dont think anyone here is really attacking you personally, but when you come in to someones post that is not actually attacking any brand or viewpoint and the best you can throw in for your first post are comments like "...yea all BMW owners drive Fords anyway" almost in a derrogatory manner it really rubs people the wrong way. I value your suggestions on the SRX and GM SUVs in general just like everyone elses, but I dont think anyone here needs to be bashed for their civil conversation about ANY brand, this forum is one of the, if not THE best car forum online because for the most part, 99 percent of the people here are the most open car loving enthusiasts there are, not just CADILLAC enthusiasts, but lovers of all automobilia in general.

BTW.. How did this end up in CADILLAC non-model specific???The problem with forums is, you can't see the guy you're talking to!
When I said BMW drivers tend to be pro Ford, it was an honest observation, I've been spinnin' on this old blue ball for a long time now, and that's just something I've noticed. I wasn't trying to knock anyone.

When someone makes a statement as if it were absolute fact, such as Ford SUV's are better, when it isn't, then I will respond every time. A person may prefer Fords, but that doesn't mean they are better to everyone, as the sales figures prove. Also to say power and performance isn't important to a luxo SUV buyer is either ignorant of the facts or just in denial. That doesn't mean I think he's a terrible person, I just dissagree. I don't believe I stated my case any stronger than several others have.

This is a very civil forum, one reason I'm here a lot. I have over 4000 posts on Chevytalk.com, which is also an exellent forum, so I understand how these work. I also understand I'm the new guy who may be ruffling some feathers, not my goal, but it isn't my style to leave subjective or missleading info out there as the gospel.
I hope we have a lot more discussions on a broad range of things, I enjoy these very much. When I say things like "Ford Boy", I'm being very tongue in cheek and just razzing that person, things like that are hard to percieve sometimes, in writing. I'm an old southern boy and we live to poke fun at each other.:D

personally, i liked the looks of the lincoln's since they came out, but i know a guy who owns a navigator and hates it. i own an escalade and love it.

and saying an escalade is just a dressed up yukon, suburban is like saying the navigator/aviator is a dressed up explorer/expedition. i would say the differences are very minimal at best. it all comes down to personal preference at that level of vehicle.

as far as not buying the srx in a gas crisis, the srx gets anywhere from 15 to 23 mpg while the aviator gets 13t to 18, so that's not an argument. the srx is faster and more efficent. and the aviator requires premium gas, not sure about the srx, it might too.

personally, i liked the looks of the lincoln's since they came out, but i know a guy who owns a navigator and hates it. i own an escalade and love it.

and saying an escalade is just a dressed up yukon, suburban is like saying the navigator/aviator is a dressed up explorer/expedition. i would say the differences are very minimal at best. it all comes down to personal preference at that level of vehicle.

as far as not buying the srx in a gas crisis, the srx gets anywhere from 15 to 23 mpg while the aviator gets 13t to 18, so that's not an argument. the srx is faster and more efficent. and the aviator requires premium gas, not sure about the srx, it might too.

Good observation...

TDogg, could you please elaborate on your friend and why he hates his Navigator? Id say right now as far as a cursory view, the one thing that rubs me bad about the navi is the typical Ford airbag suspension and the fact that they seem to keep riding this soapbox about those damn things when they are really just a license to have to go into the damn shop.

he never really elaborated much. it's a sore subject. he really hasn't liked it since he bought it and really regrets buying it. he's had it about a year or year and a half now. i think a lot of it had to do with the interior. and i think he felt he didn't get enough for what he paid.

what's the hp on a navigator?

i get a lot more looks and compliments on my escalade than he does.

and saying an escalade is just a dressed up yukon, suburban is like saying the navigator/aviator is a dressed up explorer/expedition. i would say the differences are very minimal at best. it all comes down to personal preference at that level of vehicle.Here's some comparison shots of a Yukon to a Escalade and a Navigator to a Expedition and tell me which one looks more the part of a luxury SUV. Ford did a lot better job with the interior of the truck then GM did with the Escalade. For the money you get more luxury with the Navigator then you do to the Escalade. The pictures speak for themselves.

Yea ive always thought the Escalade is more impressive and aggressive on the outside, but I LOVE the interior of the Navigator. Thats just my personal preference though. I dont know why he thinks he didnt get enough for what he paid if he got the Ultimate though. I mean, next to an Ultra Luxury Lexus LS430 this is about as gadget laden as SUVs come with everything from the Power Liftgate to the Heated and Cooled seats and the THX Navigation system. The HP is a little low for the weight of the truck though, it only produces 300 (albeit very smooth and tuned to be very throaty on the exhaust note) horses while the Escalade churns out 345 out of its 6.0L unit.

at the same time i can say the yukon is more luxurious than an explorer. so some things didn't need radical changes. i don't think it has to look radically different to be luxurious.

i think the escalade interior (which you didn't picture) is more luxuious than the navigator. the navigator is a lot of light colors and aluminum trim that reminds me of a sports car, not a luxury suv. and i don't like the gear shifter where it's at.

but like i said, they're pretty much the same. it's personal preference at that level.

I still think the center console area on the Nav looks like an old fridge from 1948!:D

i think lincoln did a great job with the navigator interior, it looks complelty differnt than the expedition interior. the escalades looks exact same but with wood and differnt guages. all the vents and everything are the same.

i think lincoln did a great job with the navigator interior, it looks complelty differnt than the expedition interior. the escalades looks exact same but with wood and differnt guages. all the vents and everything are the same.
why does it have to be different? i think the yukon's interior is nicer than the expedition/explorer interiror, so it had to be upgraded a lot.

if you look real close, you'll see other than two vents being moved, the radio being lower, and a different cover on the steering wheel. it's the same except brushed aluminum and wood. they changed minor things like different covers on the buttons but it looks like it does about the same thing.

it's up to you and what you like, i just don't think navigator looks better than the escalade. i really don't like that gear shift. if i'm driving a big suv i want all that room in the middle for accesorries i might add or my cupholder (which i use manly as a phone and change holder:) ) oh, and the escalade covers up the cupholder with the wood trim so if you're not using it, you don't have to see it.

its just when ure paying a premuim price you dont want a rebadged thing u kno? thats why i think they did a good job in making it differnt. im not sayin teh yukon isnt nice or the escalade isnt nice, but for the premuim price i'd like a little differnt interior. I love what they did with the outside of the escalade, looks great to me. but i agree with the gear shift thing. its wierd in a big truck to have a gear shift on the floor, and i dont like in cars when teh cupholders are exposed, why couldnt lincoln just put them in the same spot but with a little cover on them??????? cupholders look super cheap when they are exposed in cars like that.

why does it have to be different? Because your buying a luxury SUV that is over $50k and it looks like a base model Yukon but with a different gauge cluster and wood trim.

it's up to you and what you like, i just don't think navigator looks better than the escalade. i really don't like that gear shift. if i'm driving a big suv i want all that room in the middle for accesorries i might add or my cupholder (which i use manly as a phone and change holder:) ) oh, and the escalade covers up the cupholder with the wood trim so if you're not using it, you don't have to see it.you don't like the Navigator as much as the Escalade because you don't like where the shifter is, and because the Escalade has a wood trim piece that covers the cup holders when your not using them? :suspect: And the reason why the picture of the Escalade isn't up there is because it wouldn't let me post it again since I posted it earlier so look for my other post on this thread with the Escalade's interior

Thats not a terrific picture of the Navigator interior though, (and the all black, while not my personal preference looks just plain BAD to the bone) the Gauges and white LEDs really set that thing off when you get in it. The controls seem to feel a little more substantial in the Escalade however. Im sure the next generation Escalade will correct alot of those interior issues though, and for some reason I keep thinking you can get climate controlled seats on the Escalade now but I could be wrong

Because your buying a luxury SUV that is over $50k and it looks like a base model Yukon but with a different gauge cluster and wood trim.
i don't agree. if it already looks good and the suspension gets a serious upgrade and the engine gets a lot more power and the interior has added 'luxury' to it, i don't care if it looks similar to the yukon. would you rather had the escalade cover up their radio with a piece of woodtrim?? that's the major difference in the navigator.

you don't like the Navigator as much as the Escalade because you don't like where the shifter is, and because the Escalade has a wood trim piece that covers the cup holders when your not using them? :suspect:
no. read earlier post. i like the navigator. my friend's exsperience has turned me off of them though and i like the escalade better. in my opinion the interior looks cleaner and better. i don't want something covering up my radio, but i do want something covering my cupholders. and i think that shifter really takes away from the interior. move the shifter, cover the cupholders, uncover the radio, add more fetures to the dash (like 6 disc cd-changer in dash, driver control center) and then we're getting somewhere. of course that's what an escalade has.

what's the hp on a navigator. the escalade is 345 and i'm just wondering if the navigator is better or worse. what about ride quality?? i love how smooth the escalade rides even on rough roads.

I posted the specs in my post above this one. Its a 300HP 5.4L Triton with 3 Valves per cylinder. The Navigator has been reported to have the better ride in consumer pubs but this is probably only because of the complicated and expensive air ride system it uses (now in BOTH 2WD and 4WD trim...grrr).

I dont think the Escalade interior is bad, but I do think it lags behind the competition for as GOOD AS IT LOOKS OUTSIDE, thats the key, you really expect something different and special when you see or buy an Escalade, and then it ends up having that sweeping GM truck dash that is instantly recognizeable. If you have a 2002, the dash looks a little better, at least the numbering does.

Unfortunately (or fortunately for those who own the Escalade), value speaks for itself though, and while the Navigator can have a loaded up price of upwards of 60K, an 03 Navigator Ultimate with around 40k is now only about 33 grand, whereas an 03 AWD Escalade (AWD is really the ONLY choice with the Escalade as you get screwed on the 2wd with the 5.3L Motor and lose the 345 horses) with the same mileage still brings roughly 36-38000.

sorry, didn't see the specs before.

i have an '02 EXT and i love it. i was shocked at the acceleration and the handeling. the part i didn't like was, yes, it is like the rest of the gm trucks. but i think it added enough luxury to make it worth it. that and another 25 to 50 hp is also worth it. i've never liked gm's (or ford's) 'cookie cutter' interior. that's why i drove a mitsubishi for 4 years. but i do like the cadillac interior. maybe riding in it would sway me a little, but i don't know. the wood trim, new gauges, nicer looking leather and carpeting and MUCH nicer center console really sold me on the interior. and the power and handeling sealed the deal.

move the shifter, cover the cupholders, uncover the radio, add more fetures to the dash (like 6 disc cd-changer in dash, driver control center) and then we're getting somewhere. of course that's what an escalade has.The Navigator has a 6 disk in dash cd changer. If you look at the picture of the Navigator's screen look at the button to the left of the cd player I believe that is what you push and then the buttons on the bottom you hit to load the cd slot. But on the Aviator there's a button on the bottom right and you push that and the whole face slides down and there's a cd slot behind the face where you put in the cd's.

I remember going to Boston Market for some chicken one day and there was an Escalade EXT out there broken down.....The guy yelled at us and said to never buy a piece of sh!t Cadillac........I ended up buying one...not an Escalade...but I thought this would be funny to share.

Frankly from a rear 3/4 view the Navigator looks like a van, way too square for my tastes. The front on the current gen Nav is a big improvement from the original. But to say the Escalade is a warmed over Tahoe/Yukon, without pointing out that the Nav uses the same engine as an F-150 is missleading. The truth is, the Lincoln is as much a warmed over Expedition as the Escalade is a warmed over Yukon! That's called mass production. The Lexus models are jazzed up Toyotas! So what? Unless you buy an H1 Hummer or MB G-wagen, you're not getting a unique platform, that's just how it is. $50k doesn't buy what it used to! When I started driving you could buy 10 Corvettes for that!:D

Right now the Navigater uses a more refined 4valve 5.4 while the new F150 uses the less expensive and more efficiant 3valve 5.4. They use completely different engines...you may think not but they are and the Navigator has a rap sheet a mile long on whats different then on the Expy....they were completely developed differently. The Navi will get the 3valve this comming year though, but it will be tuned for premium and make about 330hp and 380tq combined w/the new BMW/Jag ZF 6sp transmission it will be one really nice powerplant...the 6sp alone will take about 1sec off of the 0-60 and if I were buying a luxury SUV I would like to be in one with the first 6sp auto. More HighTech:)

Again..not trying to start anything..but with the Escalade I can phisically point at things and say they came from the Yukon/Suburb. In the Navigator it would be close to impossible to go inside or underneath and find Expy parts. Maybe the seat racks and window tracks, but you cant point those out.

The fact remains, as built today the Navigator is far behind the Escalade in the performance dept., and that 'IS' important to buyers in this market. At least to all none dyed in the wool Ford guys!

In the end the buyers decide what is best for them, let the market speak for it's self. Whens the last time you saw more than one Blackwood? Where is the long wheelbase Navi? No market? Check the sales #'s for the ESV and EXT sometime!:rolleyes:

but those things you point to on the yukon/suburb that are on the escalade are nice, luxurious things. if you compare the yukon/suburb to the explorer/expedition i think the yukon/suburb beats them in style hands down. the explorer/expedition looks cheap and HAD to be updated for the navigator. they didn't make major changes. just moved them a little and put a better covering on things. and the price difference on a cadillac compared to a yukon/suburb is only in the 10 grand range. so you're getting a little more luxury inside, much bigger engine, and better ride quality. sounds like a good deal to me. i like the navigator, but i don't think it's more luxurious than an escalade.

and Msilva954, i don't want to be the first with a 6sp Auto. i'll let other people test it out for me first :)

The fact remains, as built today the Navigator is far behind the Escalade in the performance dept., and that 'IS' important to buyers in this market. At least to all none dyed in the wool Ford guys!The performance part should be the last thing you should take into consideration when buying a SUV. First thing is storage, ride quality, fuel mileage, overall build quality *something GM lacks big time* overall comfort, gadgets and gizmo's, and at the very end is performance. Because believe it or not not everything on the road is made to be a performance vehicle. Because when I buy a SUV the last thing I'm worried about is how fast it can do a 0-60 and a 1/4 in.

when i'm pulling on an interstate with a tractor trailor coming at me, the only thing i'm thinking about is that 0-60 time. who wants to drive a huge luxurious tank that if it takes forever to get to highway speeds (not saying the navigator is like that, just making my point) i look at performance first on anything i buy. and on your scale i would say the escalade is equal or better than the navigator on all that. and i disagree about gm's build quality. i (and i think a lot of other people) would say the opposite.

go to ford.com and find the navigator and compare it with the escalade. it will meet or beat almost every category listed.

The performance part should be the last thing you should take into consideration when buying a SUV. First thing is storage, ride quality, fuel mileage, overall build quality *something GM lacks big time* overall comfort, gadgets and gizmo's, and at the very end is performance. Because believe it or not not everything on the road is made to be a performance vehicle. Because when I buy a SUV the last thing I'm worried about is how fast it can do a 0-60 and a 1/4 in.

How is it you know what I should take into consideration when buying anything? Who died and left you in charge of whats important to other people? that may be your priority, and those may be your opinions, but like I said the sales figures speak for themselves, like it or not!
Oh, and I didn't catch your response about the Blackwood, and ESV/EXT situation?

If you love Fords, by all means continue to drive them, but don't try tell me how great they are, I really don't care what someone says, I care what I see and feel. I like what I feel in the GM stuff a LOT better!

By the way the total sales leaders are now; #1 GM, #2 Toyota, #3 Ford.;)

The Navigator has been reported to have the better ride in consumer pubs but this is probably only because of the complicated and expensive air ride system it uses (now in BOTH 2WD and 4WD trim...grrr). IF I WERE GOING TO GET A LUX SUV...I WOULD WANT IT TO BE THE MOST COMFORTABLE, EFFORTLESS RIDE POSSIBLE.

Frankly from a rear 3/4 view the Navigator looks like a van, way too square for my tastes. I 2ND THAT

I THINK ESCALADES LOOK MUCH BETTER THEN NAVs, BUT SO MANY PPL DRIVE AROUND IN ESC, THAT THEY ARE REALLY PLAYED OUT

But for comparisons sake here's interior shots of all the vehicles....the SRX's looks plasticy but it looks ok, but the Escalade's needs a lot of work, its a Yukon with different gauges and wood trim
I DONT KNOW IF THESE PICs WILL COME UP WITH THE QUOTE, BUT MOST PPL TALKING ABOUT HOW THE NAVs INTERIOR LOOKS NICER THEN THE ESCALADE'S....PERSONALLY, I LIKE THE ESC....I THINK NAV GOT THEIR INTERIOR'S DESIGN INSPERATION FROM "IKEA"