I am surprised at the interest herein of foreign cars. I realize for the general public at large, they are a consideration when they are in the market. They are not a consideration for me. I would guessed that on this board, of all boards, the interest would be exceptionally low. I guess I am in error of expecting that.
Due to my age (61) (Yipes...where'd it all go?), the past is a longer time frame than the future is, so....mentally I just cannot fathom supporting the economics of a foreign company over a domestic corporation. My 1st "Luxury" car was a 1968 Imperial Crown Convertible, followed by 4 more Imperials (1972, 1974, 1976, 1982, then a 1986 Lincoln Mark 7 and then a 1988 Sedan deVille, followed by a 1993 Sixty Special (still have it) and then a 1998 Lincoln Mark 8 (my only "lemon - ever) and then my current 2003 Town Car. (The BEST of the entire lot). Still have it, only 11,500 miles.
So, when I think Luxury car - I think Caddy or Lincoln, now that Imperial is still gone (Damn - the were strong good cars).
I cannot mentally adjust that a Lexus is a luxury car. Which model? An ES ? C'mon...they are Toyotas, once ya remove the wrapper.
Acura ? Same game, Hondas underneath. Infiniti ?? They even LOOK like Nissans. The only one I ever liked was the Infiniti Q45. That car, I mighta considered. They killed it in 2006 'cause there was NO Nissan to build the Q outta of. PROOF !
I also feel better about supporting GM, Ford or Chrysler that I do about supporting Honda, Nissan, Acura, or Toyota, or Hyundai, or Kia, or Mazda, or Suzuki, or whatever company decides to float the next Zircon luxury car.

Like I stated in another thread Cadillac just doesnt have a "Flagship" model. I would have to say an Escalade is probably the top of the line model available and its a blinged out Tahoe. There is nothing that goes head to head with the Mercedes S class, the BMW 7 series, the Audi 8, the Jag XJ or even the Lexus LS. Infiniti and Acura dont live up to those standards either IMO. Lincoln isnt even in the sport anymore, let alone the ballpark.


Those cars drip luxury. The interiors are beautiful and the exteriors are art-worthy (less maybe the Bangle 7). You can add all kinds of bells and whistles (like the S80) but it still doesnt put it in the same class as the true luxury rides. And no they arent a Rolls or a Bently but they are heads and shoulders above other "luxury" cars offerings.

The big bodied Benzes are my favorite "realistic" cars on the road today and I will own one in the not to distant future.

It's easy to buy American when shopping in certain categories.

But I got my license in 1990 and I had much experience, early on, with 80s American cars. And there were many, many bad ones. The Big 3 slept for a long time, selling cars on past reputation to a generation that was going to buy American no matter what.

Well, America finally woke up and realized the Big 3 made some big stinkers. When Cadillac Tony put on the forum an early 90s Fleetwood, I was frightened. It was pristine, but I just think of some of the cars being made at the time, like the 5 or 7 series BMWs or 300ZX TT, SHO, Lexus LS or SC400, Corvette ZR-1, etc...That Fleetwood looked like it should be an '84.

Way too much depending on past efforts and not enough foresight and innovation. And I find the attitude that always buying American is short-sighted and creates a stale marketpace. You know what I do? I buy the best car I can get. One that has the required engineering and effort. If America didn't want to work their hardest to build a car for me, screw 'em.

For me, the pinnacle has always been the M5. In 1993, I got as close to an M5 as I could afford, a 1992 SHO. In 2004, I bought my bargain M5, my CTS-V. Until then, I never, ever would have considered a Cadillac. Nor many domestics. Why? Because they ignored the sports sedan market. Americans pride themselves on freedom. And if the American companies didn't want to address my needs, I should change my requirements? No.

The world market forced the Big 3 to start building relevant cars again. And that's good. Instead of rolling out crap, there are some excellent products now. Buying American no matter what is one step above the commuist marketplace and the Trabants they roll out...

I drive Town Cars for a living. I had an '04 and have an '07. They ride nicely and have comfortable seats. But the interior oozes cheap and one step above Crown Vic. There is barely adequate power to go along with it.

When my V was in the shop, I rented a new DTS. It's a joke that they're FWD. And the seats aren't that comfortable. The interior looks slightly better than the Town Car's. But that only applies to '06 and newer. The previous model had hideously fake wood(about on par with pre-'03 Town Cars) and cheap buttons.

When I sit in a Lexus or Infiniti or even more Teutonic luxury sedans from BMW, Audi or Mercedes and feel comfortable in the seats and know everything feels rich to the touch, I feeeeel the luxury.

Well there you have it.. Not a whole lot more needs to be said. We ALL surely wish American cars led the pack - but they don't..

The company that builds a superior product for the price and fits my needs gets my cash. If U.S. companies want my business then they must build a competing product and be close in cost. I will not support any business simply because of nationality if they won't put forth a good enough effort to build a quality product close to their competitor. We are a nation who economic system is built on capitalism. If you wish to compete in the market place and be successful then you have to try your best to do it better than the other guy. If you want me to support the products of this nation, then the producers have to manufacture a product worth my greenback support. Otherwise I'm just contributing to a system of Socialism regardless of quality. The competition helps us excel in our efforts and be innovative in the marketplace.

My money goes to the manufacturer that can build the best product that meets or exceeds my expectations and standards at a cost that is viable to me. I don't care if that product is domestic, or is made in Germany, England, Italy, France or Nigeria. It doesn't matter, I don't care where it comes from, just as long as it's the best thing I can buy.

I agree, buying purely domestic when the domestics don't necessarily make the best product only adds to the mess by "voting" for their inferior product with your dollar, which will make them feel as though their "inferior" product is up to standards and competitive with the best. Thus hindering further engineering while the competition heads us out again....and again...and again.

If you use that kind of logic....

Isn't your Town Car just a Crown Victoria?

Isn't your Sixty Special just a Oldsmobile 98?

... everything has a wrapper, you just pay extra for how well that wrapper covers what's underneath ;)

We (some buddies and myself) talked about this. Most of them have gotten new cars recently, a new 5-series, and the rest were Nissans, a 4-door Altima, an Altima couple, and a Xterra. Keep in mind, this is only a discussion among 22-25 year olds, but one of the issues brought up, was indeed, the nationaility of cars. One point, was that, for those that own Japanese cars, would they consider owning an Iraqi or Afghanistan made car? Remember to think back to WWII and what the Japanese did. Has time healed that wound? Sure people/countries change, but is just change enough? And therefore, in 30-40 years, would you drive an Iraqi car if their 'quality' was top of the line?

(Notice I left any personal assetment out of the ideas presented),

For that generation, I can certainly understand a bias against the Japanese and German brands, because of WWII. But for my generation, the hatred or dislike for the countries due to that war (and the holocaust) isn't as strong. I mean we've all heard the horrendous stories and seen the awful pictures, but we didn't live through it first hand, so it's different for us.

I would have to say an Escalade is probably the top of the line model available and its a blinged out Tahoe.

Unless you count the different engine, transmission, suspension, interior, body panels, wheels, lighting and warranty, you're absolutely right.

We (some buddies and myself) talked about this. Most of them have gotten new cars recently, a new 5-series, and the rest were Nissans, a 4-door Altima, an Altima couple, and a Xterra. Keep in mind, this is only a discussion among 22-25 year olds, but one of the issues brought up, was indeed, the nationaility of cars. One point, was that, for those that own Japanese cars, would they consider owning an Iraqi or Afghanistan made car? Remember to think back to WWII and what the Japanese did. Has time healed that wound? Sure people/countries change, but is just change enough? And therefore, in 30-40 years, would you drive an Iraqi car if their 'quality' was top of the line?

(Notice I left any personal assetment out of the ideas presented),I think it is quite obvious that America was fighting evil government regimes. It's people only followed propoganda in search of prosperity. There is no risk of recurrence of evil German and Japanese governments.

If supporting Iraqi or Afghani made products doesn't fund vengeful regimes and the quality is good, I can see it happening in future decades...

Now, a North Korean car.....I dunno about that...

If you use that kind of logic....
Isn't your Town Car just a Crown Victoria?

Yes.

Isn't your Sixty Special just a Oldsmobile 98?

Yes.

... everything has a wrapper, you just pay extra for how well that wrapper covers what's underneath ;)

Not always. Underneath, a BMW or Sigma platform Cadillac is exactly what is advertised on the wrapper.

I'm with you Sandy. I tend to give the domestics the benefit of the doubt. Maybe Cadillac isn't the best of the best but it certainly is very very good (and in my mind compares favorably with just about anything in the same price range).
Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion, but the playing field is pretty level for like category cars.

To me, Cadillacs are the nicest looking automobiles available. I like "Cadillac style". Luckily, most people aren't as picky as I am when it comes to everything else. Whenever I don't own a Cadillac, I will be waiting for one that fits "me". No matter what I may be driving, I will always be waiting to replace it when a newer Cadillac.. That's the way I've always been and that's the way I'll always be.

Unless you count the different engine, transmission, suspension, interior, body panels, wheels, lighting and warranty, you're absolutely right.

Do they both roll out of the Arlington Assembly Plant and share a LARGE amount of common parts (along with the Yukon)?

The V has a different engine, transmission, suspension, interior, body panels, and wheels (and other stuff too!) than a base model CTS, but quess what, its still a CTS. Regretfully it does have the same differential though.

And again, Im absolutly right.

To me, Cadillacs are the nicest looking automobiles available. I like "Cadillac style". Luckily, most people aren't as picky as I am when it comes to everything else. Whenever I don't own a Cadillac, I will be waiting for one that fits "me". No matter what I may be driving, I will always be waiting to replace it when a newer Cadillac.. That's the way I've always been and that's the way I'll always be.

I agree, and during my car owning lifetime I've owned only three Cadillacs (I am not counting my wife's cars) all Sevilles 1976, 1995 and 2002, during the long periods in between Cadillac ownership I found the combination of quality and performance I was looking for from European makers. If Cadillac doesn't produce something I want to drive then the competition willjust have to do.

I'm with you Sandy. I tend to give the domestics the benefit of the doubt. Maybe Cadillac isn't the best of the best but it certainly is very very good (and in my mind compares favorably with just about anything in the same price range).
Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion, but the playing field is pretty level for like category cars.That was NOT the case in past decades. You can thank the discerning American public that stopped buying subpar cars and forced Cadillac to improve quality...

As I was previously a Toyota Camry owner myself, the #1 difference between American cars and Jap (or German, etc.) IMO is resale. My Camry was a 2000 LE with 70k miles, leather seats, sunroof, alloy wheels, two tone paint. KBB price was around $9k at a dealer. Now my 2000 STS w/54k miles, silver w/pewter interior, bose stereo, etc. had a KBB price of around $11k. The biggest difference: the Toyota was $24k new, and the Cadillac was $53k.

The Big 3 have had many ups and downs, and they couldn't have gone any lower than the 80's. It darn near killed Cadillac. They are steadily improving, and even products like the "old" DTS aren't terrible cars. Class leading? Not really, but for the traditional Cadillac owner the DTS is perfect. Yes, Hyundai's Genesis is a beautiful looking car, but they have to prove themselves worthy. Until then, it will be just another face in the crowd. Just like Lexus in 1989, there will be skeptics.

I find the current Cadillac's extremely competitive in todays market. A huge turn around from 10 years ago, when they were selling the FWD Seville STS as a BMW 5 fighter. The quality is also at a high point, where as the Cadillac's of yesterday were being fitted with some cheap looking crap. Trust me, some of it made its way into my Seville.

I'm one of the few people who think the introduction of Lexus really saved Cadillac. Had Lexus not come around, what would Cadillac be like today? Would we have gotten the Northstar engine, the '92 and '98 Seville, and today's line-up of cars? I, for one, don't think so. They'd still be selling the Fleetwood Broughams, FWD Seville's, and most likely be using a pushrod engine of some sort. Lexus woke up the whole automotive industry, and showed previously arrogant execs at GM that a Jap company can easily build a luxury car.

The American companies just cant get it right. Lincoln and Cadillac have nothing to compete with the best from Japan, Germany and soon Korea. I have been a fan of Cadillacs but older ones mostly. Cadillac lost me with the FWD crap and a whole series of crappy drivetrains ranging from the 4-6-8 motors to the 4.1's and Northstars. Cadillacs and Lincolns lack the "feel" of a true luxury car, they really feel like gussied up Chevies and Pontiacs or Fords in Lincolns case. The interior of my '98 Deville was shameful, from the padded vinyl door panels to the carpeted headliner and everything in between. Not $40-$45k territory. My wifes Mark VIII although a bit more appealing inside than the Develle isn't all that much better either. Look at all the Cadillacs and Lincolns from the past, jump into any same year Mercedes and you can instantly feel the difference. Depreciation is a SOB on the American cars as well. I checked out the CTS interiors......................horrible.

The American car companies do have the engineering capabilities to make worthy cars, look at the C6 ZR1.

.. but how can we compete when we have minimum wage & benefits here and those overseas companies pay their workers next to nothing.

Money is the issue and GM doesn't have it. Unions, health care costs, etcetera - all hurt GM while the Japanese companies don't have to worry about this stuff..

The American car companies do have the engineering capabilities to make worthy cars, look at the C6 ZR1.

.. but how can we compete when we have minimum wage & benefits here and those overseas companies pay their workers next to nothing.

Elias, thats true. But where does that leave us?. If we at least make the cars with bulletproof engineering it would help with the depreciation. Look how well Lexus and most Japanese cars hold up in value. The American consumer has option A:buy a low quality American car that will be virtually worthless in 5 years so they can help support our economy or B:buy a high quality foreign counterpart that will be reliable, nicer and will hold value. These are hard times, people cant afford to lose that much money on a car and they want something reliable so option B is a more of a sound choice.

^Exactly. Cadillac still has problems with low resale, and that might be the reason why that aren't as popular with younger people. I've seen '05 STS's going for as low as $18k. You won't see a Lexus GS of the same year going for any lower than $25k-$30k. Now I'd personally take the Cadillac over the Lexus, but the average consumer would most likely take the Lexus.

^Exactly. Cadillac still has problems with low resale, and that might be the reason why that aren't as popular with younger people. I've seen '05 STS's going for as low as $18k. You won't see a Lexus GS of the same year going for any lower than $25k-$30k. Now I'd personally take the Cadillac over the Lexus, but the average consumer would most likely take the Lexus.That problem is with past Cadillacs. People have come to expect huge rebates on new Cadillacs and that hurts resale. Also, perception of quality takes awhile to change. In time, that should change.

Today's Cadillacs have far better quality and their fit and finish are world class, at least on the new CTS. We just have to hope GM can keep investing in these vastly improved vehicles across the board...

Today's Cadillacs have far better quality and their fit and finish are world class, at least on the new CTS. We just have to hope GM can keep investing in these vastly improved vehicles across the board...

That's it right there.. All we need, really... But also - sooner than later.. We have the CTS, an awesome entry-level luxury car. But that's going to be it for the next 4 years? I think the STS/DTS replacement has been pushed back a bit. Maybe it we're lucky we'll see it in 2010..

In my opinion, the CTS is no longer an entry level car. I don't even put it in the same class as the 3-series, I would put it as a 5-series competitor. The price on a nicely optioned CTS can easily top $46k, and the size is about equal or maybe even larger than a 530i. Cadillac needs an entry level car that starts around $28k, and fully optioned would be around $40k.

Cadillac also needs a large, high end luxury car that starts at $60k and tops out at $80-$90k. It needs a new version of the Northstar (even using a LSx engine would be a good idea) and the base models could have a DI V6 from the CTS. Topping out the line would be a V-12 engine (6 cylinder shutoff anyone?) to help fuel economy. That would be a perfect line up, very similar to BMW (3,5,7), Mercedes (C,E,S) and Lexus (IS, GS, LS). If Cadillac is serious about becoming a "Standard of the World" marque again, they need a cohesive lineup.

That problem is with past Cadillacs. People have come to expect huge rebates on new Cadillacs and that hurts resale. Also, perception of quality takes awhile to change. In time, that should change.

Today's Cadillacs have far better quality and their fit and finish are world class, at least on the new CTS. We just have to hope GM can keep investing in these vastly improved vehicles across the board...

The best way to fix that is separate Cadillac from other GM brands. Do not sell Cadillac at existing Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac, and GMC stores. Lexus could have easily sold the '90 LS400 with existing Toyota's, but they chose to separate the brands.

You walk into a Chevrolet-Cadillac dealership, you have a huge $5k rebate sitting on the hood of a new car (Malibu, Impala, etc.) Since Cadillac is in the GM family, that person is expecting a similar rebate on a CTS or STS. You separate the stores, the person wouldn't feel as much need for a rebate since it's a Cadillac "exclusive" store. I don't think many people walk into a Lexus dealer thinking, "Man what kind of rebate can I get on this car today?" If GM and Cadillac can erase than kind of thinking from people when they walk into a dealership, it will help resale and the brands perception in a great way.

I agree with what you say about the CTS being more of a 5-Series competitor than a 3-Series competitor - but as it stands, it's "Cadillacs" entry-level vehicle. There's nothing cheaper available.

It WOULD be nice to see Cadillac with separate showrooms.. It would also be nice to see Cadillac go out on it's own away from GM.

Cadillac lost me with the FWD crap and a whole series of crappy drivetrains ranging from the 4-6-8 motors to the 4.1's and Northstars.

This is exactly what I was saying in the Mercury thread American cars for the longest time 1977-1990 were 100% shit they had cheap build quality and over inflated prices and had the Gaul to expect the American public to by them and like it, well you know what we don't. Would you by some shitty zenith TV for $600 or a Sony for $400 hell my first TV and VCR came form a country that doesn't even exist any more and you know what it's still going strong which is something I can say about some of the electronics I've bought form American companies. But getting back to cars, I own a 93 Eldorado and I can safely say I made a good choice, their was no Acura, Lexus, BMW, Mercedes.... that had the same mix of style and power that the Eldo has but if Acura had mad a sport V8 powered sports coupe in 93 that could best 7.7 0-60, beat 20mpg in the city, sportier style (not some thing Acura excels at), better options, and didn't require premium I would have been all over it but they didn't so I went with Cadillac but does that mean given the choice I would by an American car over a foreign one, for the simple reason that it's us V them. No, like most people (any where in the world) I will buy what ever best suits my needs and if that happens to be a Honda from Japan or a Lada from the former USSR then so be it.

There was some rumor about a BTS (I think maybe they already have it in Europe). With the economy, I would think now would be the time to get that car over here pronto.

The best way to fix that is separate Cadillac from other GM brands. Do not sell Cadillac at existing Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac, and GMC stores. Lexus could have easily sold the '90 LS400 with existing Toyota's, but they chose to separate the brands.


I would say that the dealer situation is one of the main reasons Cadillac is doing so much better than Lincoln. Where I live, I can name 4 Cadillac dealers within the 12 mile radius or so. Two of them are exclusively Cadillac dealers. The third is Plaza Motors - they are the biggest luxury car dealer in the area. They sell Cadillacs, Mercedes, Lexus, Land Rovers, Porsche, BMWs. The 4th dealer sells Cadillacs and Pontiacs next to each other, but it seems like their focus is on Cadillac and luxury brands because they have Jaguar dealer further down the road. Talking with others in other towns it seems like Cadillac-only dealers or Cadillac being grouped with other luxury cars is pretty common.

Ford, however, has decided to sell Lincoln and Mercury together, which I think is a problem.

I think the dealers who market Cadillac with other brands like Porsche, Jaguar, Mercedes, etc. is a really good idea. It's a great way for people to compare car to car and see which is the better value. The new CTS really represents a great value in its class, especially when cross shopping BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes. If the STS had a better interior, more powerful V8, and cost about $2k less for both versions, I'm sure it would sell better. Plus, it lacks interior room.

The dealer I work at sells Cadillac, Buick, Pontiac and GMC's all together. I think it would be a good idea if we separated the Cadillac's from our other GM products to make it a little more exclusive. Put them on a separate lot or something.

I'd love to visit a Cadillac/BMW/Audi/Jaguar/M-B/Porsche dealer. I could kill hours there. :cloud9: :drool:

I'm chiming in kind of late here, but I agree with MauiV. Cadillac does not have a definitive flag ship, although I could easily see it being the DTS. It is the roomiest and the nicest riding caddy on the market now, but it still has not been declared the flag ship in the way the 3 series has for BMW.

I also agree on the fact that Caddys are not in the same league as the higher BMW's and Benz's, but thats how I like them. They are classy and elegant, powerful and very comfy to ride in, but they don't overwhelm you with gadgets. My '95 is perfect for me. It looks extremely nice and rides like a dream, but it doesn't over-do you with gadgets. It keeps the air where I like it and the tunes sounding great. I have no need for Navigation or Bluetooth or any of that other garbage that is nothing but more things to break.

And to Destroyer, I too wish Caddy had kept a few RWD cars in the lineup over the years. Caddy is in a great position now, IMO, as it has a good lineup that ranges from sporty to fancy, less expensive to 6 figures. It has RWD cars and AWD cars that will allow for great traction and performance in all weather conditions. You have to think the way they did back in the day though. In the early 80's FWD cars were all the rage. They provided a good driving experience and excellent performance in adverse conditions. They also had better fuel economy in a post-crisis era.

BMW's flagship is the 7-Series. Lexus' flagship is the LS. Mercedes flagship is the S-Class. Audi? A8. Cadillac? I don't think its the DTS. I've heard its the STS. In any event, Cadillac doesn't have anything that compares to any of the aforementioned flagships.

Otherwise, Cadillac has always been about gadgets and technology. You know - useless things. Bluetooth and navigation are part of that equation these days.

It's always been hard to define Cadillac's flagship. Back in the 1970s-'90s, was it the most expensive: Seville, the biggest: Fleetwood/Brougham, or the most intimate and expressive: Eldorado? It's always been hard to tell...

I have always thought the Seville/STS was the flagship of the Cadillac line-up. Back in the late 80's, it was the Allante (as for sedans, no clue0. Once that went away, the Seville STS became the leader. Right now, I would think the XLR is the flagship of the brand as a whole.

Maybe I think of flagship differently from anyone else. I think of it as the most prominate and maybe even the most widely sold. I honestly have no idea what an S-class looks like. I do know what a 7 series looks like but I rarely ever see one.

I just thought Caddy's flagship was the DeVille/DTS because it has been around (continuously) longer than any other model (If I wrong, please correct me) and it always received a new look and newer technology (most of the time) before the other cars. The DeVille body style changes roughly every 5 years, but the Fleetwood/Brougham went for nearly 13 years (I think) unchanged (major changes) through the 80's and early 90's (I just wanted more brackets in this paragraph).

Lord Caddy, I know Caddy has always been about gadgets, but it has also always been about comfort and appearance. I would much rather have a car that is simple but comfortable than one that is comfortable, decked out with gadgets and expensive as hell. I have seen a few of the higher end Benz's from the 90's and I cannot stand sitting in them. There is just far too many buttons and dialy-do's and frankly they overwhelm me. On top of that you get companies trying to do away with the maze of buttons and replace them with things like the iDrive, which is nearly as bad. When I want to change a radio station, I want to be able to hit one simple button. I don't want to have to scroll through 4 menus while at the same time having the damn thing doing useless animations and flashing lights at me. Anyway, that is just my personal opinion and I will not bash any others for thinking differently than I do. I would just much rather have a nice car that is simple and easy to operate.

BTW, I lied in that second to last sentence. :)

Even in test comparisons they put the STS-V against the M5 and E63.

So not even the press recognizes the STS as a S class or 7 series competitor. It is a E class and 5 series competitor.

I hear ya about the technology and wanting things to be easier than iDrive. However, to turn on the radio and switch to a specific station or CD, all you have to do is speak it. You can't get much easier than that...

Besides that point - technologies like iDrive are the way of the future. Put any kid into a 7-Series BMW and he'll know exactly how to work it in 10 minutes...

Sandy, you say you are surprised at the interest in forign cars.... but then I am surprised when I read comments like this:

Now, if it was the Hyundai Azera Limited in Pearl White....I'd have to think looong & hard. I love that Azera Limited in pearl white, with cashmire leather, the teakwood interior accents & the exterior gold emblem pkg.

You've mentioned things like that about other cars... the last verion of the Q45 IIRC? that you said you were on the waiting list to get but then they couldn't get your color or something.... you mention the Volvo you like alot, and I remember you talking about wanting to get an Isuzu Vehi-CROSS.

I don't understand it... you like, want, and have even been ready to hand out the money for a foreign car, but then you are surprised when others are interested in them as well.

I'm pretty sure no American company has any big part of Infinity or Hyundai, What is it Ford that has some interest in Volvo? I know in the case of Isuzu, even tho GM had a good amount of interest durring the years, the Vehi-CROSS was all-Isuzu, built in Japan and imported to the US....

For me, I prefer American cars.... but I am interested in cars as a whole, my Isuzu was what really opened me up from the American-only, and I am extremely happy with that truck.... some day I'd like a BMW E30 convertibe, then I'd have 1 vehicle from each of the "big 3" but until then, I'm content :)

Not sure if that was a statement or a question. As a question, yes, there have been some >>> SOME <<< foreign cars that really got me. You mentioned all except one, that one being the Volvo S80 Premier.
In addition, the Hyundai Azera Limited, the Infiniti Q45, and the Isuzu Vehi-Cross.

In the case of most of these, they offered (at the time) features that other (perhaps more ...Ah..."respected nameplates had no clue about. In the case of the Q45, 4-wheel steering, and in the case of the Azera Limited, an interior unequalled in any car in its price range, and in the case of the Vehi Cross, One tough SOB that could take a licking & keep on kicking, and never took itself too seriously. One damn cool looking .... whatever it was...
and in the case of the S80 Premier, a car so overlooked b y the MB BMW crowd, that they are spending more and getting less.
You have never seen a comp test in an auto mag between a 5-Series & a S80 Premier, nor between a E-Class & a S80 Premier or a Jag S-Type & a S80 Premier. The S80 has features - loads of features - absent from the others, plus AWD and a 311 H.P. V-8. If 'ya have a chance to, stop into a Volvo store and request a S-80 brochure. You'll be amazed.

I try to always Buy American - however I do respect the few cars that I see have gone beyond their immediate competition and one upped them, either with content, interior, work-ability or unique features.
I don't fall on my knees and covet anything that has the 3-pointed star on its hood or the blue & white disc, simply because......of it's status.

Regardless, to date, I've never owned a brand owned by a foreign corporation. Not yet, anyway.. I DID COME DARN CLOSE WITH THAT Q45. No, it was not color, it was I was 4 days to late to place an order, and they could not locate what I wanted. THAT was a close call :)

I'm one of the 'buy American' genre posted earlier in this thread. (Though I would be persuaded otherwise, from that little Italian company, that makes those cars with the little horsey on them. Of course there would have to be 'a lottery and me' involved in that equation.) :)

I believe in "buy American" but Im not gonna just hand money over for a inferior product either.

The V series allows me to own a true American sports sedan, at a good price. Otherwise I would be in an M or an AMG.

Now if the Big 3 could make a compact or sub-compact worth a shit they might really be on to something.

I believe in "buy American" but Im not gonna just hand money over for a inferior product either.

The V series allows me to own a true American sports sedan, at a good price. Otherwise I would be in an M or an AMG.

Now if the Big 3 could make a compact or sub-compact worth a shit they might really be on to something.One of the big 3 do make a compact worth a shit. Ford of all companies. But in their infinite wisdom, they dont think its worth reengineering certain safety aspects to suit our market. They also make a damn good midsize car in the Mondeo / ST220, but again...Ford wisdom has prevailed.

I find it funny that GM is passing the new Saturn compact off as a class leading Euro compact, but its kind of bottom of the barrel in europe. Until you've driven a Fiat 500 or any small Citroen or any of the class leading compacts in Europe, you dont fully realize how far behind our compacts are.