: Pontiac GTO: Appears to be a Flop for GM



Chuck C
06-06-04, 04:19 PM
Today I read a brief article about the GTO. It said some 7,000 units have been sold to date which is way off of GM's target of 16,000 units. Bland styling was named as a reason for slow sales.

Reasons why I think people are not buying (in addition to styling):
-lack of dealer, factory incentives
-disappointment with the famous name+car that appears (coincides with styling)
-corvette and CTS-V cannibalizing sales
-pontiac's reputation for being the odd man out in the GM line
-gas prices
-low appeal of coupes (versus sedans, trucks, and SUVs)

Reasons why I'd buy one:
-favorable reviews
-the numbers speak for themselves
-it's a sleeper car
-that fast LS1 V8
-that throaty exhaust sound

So what do you guys think? Is it a flop? Does it need time?

Cadence
06-06-04, 04:40 PM
I wouldn't call it another Aztec just yet.........:suspect:

Gas prices certainly doesn't help Pontiacs cause very much. Just bad timing for a good project so far, IMO. They need to get back to the drawing board, as far as styling is concern. Personally, I would never buy a GTO, if I know that for a little bit more, I can have a nice CTS-V. The styling of the CTS just does it for me better than the GTO. The GTO looks like a souped up Sunbird or something :rolleyes2

CVP33
06-06-04, 04:42 PM
I ordered my Impulse Blue with blue interior, 6 speed GTO on June, 20th of 2003. By February my GTO was no closer to being built, the dealer couldn't tell me where it was or if it would ever see US soil. You see Pontiac wanted to have at least 1 GTO sitting in EVERY Pontiac Dealer's showroom which meant those of us who had pre-ordered a GTO sight unseen were pushed to the back. Our orders were held until all the dealer's GTO were built. There was little or no communication regarding the build/ship process which left dealers and customers guessing. After waiting for 8 agonizing months I began to hear and read about the CTS-V. You already know how it all ended. I bought my CTS-V on February 13th, 2004. My GTO finally showed up at the dealer on April 21st a full 10 months after I had ordered it and it is still sitting in the showroom unsold. It's a testament to how GM/Pontiac totally screwed up a new product rollout and alienated the few supporters they had.....those of use who had pre-ordered well in advance. Sad really. But now they must reap what they have sewn.

I rode in a GTO and drove one. They're great cars. But they're no V. I'm very happy with the way it turned out.

Randy_W
06-06-04, 05:11 PM
The GTO is getting styling updates as we speak, the LS-6 engine is slated to be optional in 6 speed cars by Jan. '05, so don't count them out just yet!;)

Devil_concours
06-06-04, 06:21 PM
The GTO is getting styling updates as we speak, the LS-6 engine is slated to be optional in 6 speed cars by Jan. '05, so don't count them out just yet!;)
actually they are getting the new ls2 engine
http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/pontiac/gto/index.html

Vesicant
06-06-04, 06:43 PM
SO by then the new CTS V (Plus?) will have more hp or will they end up having the same but the GTO just having more displacement ?

Ralph
06-06-04, 07:19 PM
A few years ago the manufacturers were saying that 2 door cars don't sell well, maybe that has something to do with it?

I glanced at the comparison in the latest Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords where they compared the GTO to a Mach 1, but didn't have time to read the whole article. I think the times were close despite there being a 50 hp difference?

Dead Sled
06-06-04, 08:06 PM
I hope GM rides it out and keeps the new goat

ShadowLvr400
06-06-04, 09:13 PM
It was a total marketing screwup by GM IMO. The price is way too high, and it's competing with the wrong segment for the nameplate. It's essentially an upscale touring coupe, similar in build and layout to the mustang, but for 10k more, just flat not worth it. GM fans wanted a replacement for the Camaro, and true competition with the Stang. Instead, they get Cobra pricing for GT performance. The styling is so bland it's comatose. The motor is nice, but the car's a chunk too. A stock Mustang GT can stand toe to toe with the GTO, and a Mach 1 flat out stomps it. (Yea, I look at the GTO, and see the build to compete with the Mustang.) Considering I can get a Mach 1 for below 25k, vs the GTO at over 30k... Sorry GM, but I'm going with Ford. (Oddly been wishing I had bought a Mach 1 over my Caddy lately.)

Randy_W
06-06-04, 09:41 PM
actually they are getting the new ls2 engine
http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/pontiac/gto/index.html
LS-2 is what I meant to say, old habits die hard!:halo:

cruzajc1
06-06-04, 09:43 PM
A few friends have a Mach 1 here in Valdosta, GA and they are nice for the power they produce, but your 97 Eldo and my 96 STS are still better cars than a new mACH 1 and our cars are 7/8 YEARS OLDER, so even though the Mach 1 is under 25K, I would stay with the Cadillac line for longevity. Track that Mach 1 in 8 years and see the shape it's in and you will see why a Cadyy is a Caddy.


Gus

cruzajc1@aol.com

Chuck C
06-06-04, 09:49 PM
ShadowLvr400---


Doesn't the GTO have a few advantages over the Mustang Mach 1?

indp rear susp? better fit and finish? 45hp, lb-ft? a couple luxury items (opt power pass seat, twilight sentinel)? A little roomier up front?

I'm also seeing online that there is about a $2,000 price difference b/t the Mach 1 and GTO.

Sounds like the GTO is the better bargain.

Randy_W
06-06-04, 09:58 PM
It was a total marketing screwup by GM IMO. The price is way too high, and it's competing with the wrong segment for the nameplate. It's essentially an upscale touring coupe, similar in build and layout to the mustang, but for 10k more, just flat not worth it. GM fans wanted a replacement for the Camaro, and true competition with the Stang. Instead, they get Cobra pricing for GT performance. The styling is so bland it's comatose. The motor is nice, but the car's a chunk too. A stock Mustang GT can stand toe to toe with the GTO, and a Mach 1 flat out stomps it. (Yea, I look at the GTO, and see the build to compete with the Mustang.) Considering I can get a Mach 1 for below 25k, vs the GTO at over 30k... Sorry GM, but I'm going with Ford. (Oddly been wishing I had bought a Mach 1 over my Caddy lately.)

BEST RUNS FOR GTO AND MACH 1
When most of the smoke cleared, Evan Smith had the quickest e.t. in the GTO at 13.52 at 105.57 and ran the Mach 1 to a 13.51 e.t. at 103. So there is your comparison with the same driver.

GTOMach 1Mach 160 ft.2.242.212.15330 ft.5.895.845.791/8 e.t.8.848.808.771/8 mph83.8283.3182.941/4 e.t.13.5213.5113.471/4 mph105.57103.67104.25DriverSmithSmithBaurTEST CAR SPECS2004 GTO2004 Mach 1PaintTorrid RedCompetition OrangeWheelbase109.8" 101.3"Length189.8"183.2"Height54.9"52.35"Width72.5"73.1"Track width front/rear61.4/62.1"60.2/60.6"Curb Weight3,774 lbs3,465 lbsEngineLS1 V-8DOHC V-82 valves per cyl.4-valves per cyl.Displacement346 CI/ 5.7L281 CI/4.6LBore Stroke3.90/3.62"3.55/3.54"Block/HeadsAluminumAluminumHorsepower350 @ 5,200 rpm310 @ 6,000Torque365 ft-lb @ 4,000 rpm335 ft-lb @ 4,200Throttle Body75 mmTwin 58 mmInjectors26 lb-hr24 lb-hrMAF75 mm80 mmIntake ManifoldLS6 CompositeAlumninumHeadsCast aluminumCast aluminumValves2.00/1.55 1.46/1.18Rockers/Followers1.7:11.8:1Compression Ratio10.5:110.1:1CamshaftDuration at .050196°/207°196°/190°Lift.479/.467.385/.385Lobe sep angle116°Can be adjusted IgnitionIndividual coil-per-cylinderCoil-on-plug sequentialTransmission6-Speed T56 M125-Speed 3650Gear Ratios12.973.3522.071.9931.431.3341.001.0050.840.6 860.57Rear AxleIndependent limited slip Solid, limited slipGear ratio3.46:13.55:1Brakes4 -Channel ABSABSFront11.7" Vented disc13" Brembo vented discRear 11.3" Solid disc11.7" Brembo vented discWheels17x8" 5-spoke17x8" 5-spokeTires245/45ZR17 BFGoodrich g-force KDWS245/45ZR17 Goodyear EagleTraction controlYesYesSuspension

NOT EXACTLY STOMPING IT!! HUH!!???


The extra weight of th GTO, coupled with the higher trap speed along taller gears, makes it look like with slicks, the GTO would clean it's clock. "Stomps it!" Not quite, but nice try Ford Boy!:D

Devil_concours
06-06-04, 11:08 PM
It was a total marketing screwup by GM IMO. The price is way too high, and it's competing with the wrong segment for the nameplate. It's essentially an upscale touring coupe, similar in build and layout to the mustang, but for 10k more, just flat not worth it. GM fans wanted a replacement for the Camaro, and true competition with the Stang. Instead, they get Cobra pricing for GT performance. The styling is so bland it's comatose. The motor is nice, but the car's a chunk too. A stock Mustang GT can stand toe to toe with the GTO, and a Mach 1 flat out stomps it. (Yea, I look at the GTO, and see the build to compete with the Mustang.) Considering I can get a Mach 1 for below 25k, vs the GTO at over 30k... Sorry GM, but I'm going with Ford. (Oddly been wishing I had bought a Mach 1 over my Caddy lately.)
mustang gt doesn't actually come toe to toe with gto. All the times achived by megazines show gto ahead of gt.

Caddy Man
06-07-04, 01:49 AM
its a fast and powerful car...but what the hell is GM thinkgin takin some australian car and stickin a legendary nameplate on it and chaning the badges???? sure the interior is good quility...CUZ ITS NOT A REAL PONTIAC lol. and whats up with the shitty lookin exhust...it should have some true duals.

Devil_concours
06-07-04, 02:00 AM
its a fast and powerful car...but what the hell is GM thinkgin takin some australian car and stickin a legendary nameplate on it and chaning the badges???? sure the interior is good quility...CUZ ITS NOT A REAL PONTIAC lol. and whats up with the shitty lookin exhust...it should have some true duals.
it does have true duals

RBraczyk
06-07-04, 07:21 AM
I've seen about 20 different ones this weekend so i dunno what people are talking about with these and sales.

T_Dogg8
06-07-04, 10:30 AM
i thought it looked like a cavailer on steriods. the power is nice, but if i'm going to spend that kind of money, i want the looks too. otherwise, i could buy a cavalier and drop a Z06 engine in it. i've heard they're making changes, and they need it. as is, the gto will be dead in 3 years. hopefully the changes will make it a good car. i'm pulling for it and hope in 3 years it's a great car, not dead.

Caddy Man
06-07-04, 11:47 AM
it does have true duals
oh my bad...i meant have 2 exhust pipes comin down from both sides of the car...right now it looks shitty with its 1 sideed exhust.

Devil_concours
06-07-04, 12:07 PM
oh my bad...i meant have 2 exhust pipes comin down from both sides of the car...right now it looks shitty with its 1 sideed exhust.
i actually like the one sided look. It feels very european ;)

Sandy
06-07-04, 12:09 PM
Needs:

4 chrome exhaust tips, centered, a la Corvette
Famous GTO red line tires
Hood Scoops
Hood Mounted Tach
Edgey styling, a little, don't overdo it.
Power Moonroof Option
optional hood pins
a bump in H.P. of about 75 H.P.
19" tire/wheel pkg

ShadowLvr400
06-07-04, 04:12 PM
BEST RUNS FOR GTO AND MACH 1
When most of the smoke cleared, Evan Smith had the quickest e.t. in the GTO at 13.52 at 105.57 and ran the Mach 1 to a 13.51 e.t. at 103. So there is your comparison with the same driver.

NOT EXACTLY STOMPING IT!! HUH!!???


The extra weight of th GTO, coupled with the higher trap speed along taller gears, makes it look like with slicks, the GTO would clean it's clock. "Stomps it!" Not quite, but nice try Ford Boy!:D


Not a Ford boy, but go visit some Ford forums. Stock Mach1's are running a lot faster than 13.5. The keys to check, 1, did he hit 4th gear or not? People have learned to shortshift into 4th just before the 1/4 is up. Also, feathering the clutch and some major launching techniques have brought the Mach 1 to a 12.9. Bone stock, factory tires.

There was a lot of discussion about whether or not to wind out 3rd, or drop to 4th. People found that because of the massive torque dropoff, that it was indeed worth it to hit 4th gear.

As for the launches, 3k, and feather the hell out of the clutch, brought some 60's down to the 1.9 range as I recall. Now a 12.9 vs a 13.5 is a stomping in my book. Going to hunt down the people who hit the 12.9. Also, 103 is on the low end for traps it seems from a lot of people. 105 is relatively common.

ShadowLvr400
06-07-04, 04:14 PM
he first guy to claim 12s and back it up with a slip...3300-3500rpm launch (featherin the clutch like a mofo), powershifting at 6300rpm crossing in 4th. The 1.9x 60' is what did it for him, with this new launch approach I wouldnt be surprised to suddenly see several machs hit the 12s with no mods.

http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=552177



his 105.99 trap speed is by no means abnormal, lots of people trap higher than he did, its that magic 60'..I think this goes to show why LS1 guys are having so much trouble with these cars from a roll.





Found it, via a friend. This was his post on my local forums.

ShadowLvr400
06-07-04, 04:16 PM
As for prices, 3 friends here in my area have gotten theirs for below 25k. One at 24,500, one at 23k, and one at 21k. Find me a GTO near 21, brand new.

ShadowLvr400
06-07-04, 04:32 PM
Since I expect to be flamed for that, ah well. My opinion, kill the GTO as it stands, bring over Holden as a company to replace Olds, bring the entire damn lineup, make it left steerers, and then sell it. Market it as a European car brought to American roads. Then you dont have to live up to the GTO's memory.

And GM needs to bring back the Camaro. Letting the Mustang vs Camaro/F-body war die... Worst idea EVER. Mustang and Camaro are the US automotive equivalents of Apple Pie and Baseball. You can't be the USA without them. Try that memory.

lowscola
06-07-04, 04:39 PM
It's something about Pontiacs styling in general that I don't like. And for those that don't remember the original GTO and have no emotional connection to it, the current iteration doesn't stir up any emotion to bring in a new generation of followers. You have to respect the engine and overall performance but the styling I could never get over. The car is just so uninspiring...it's only an aggressive restyling away from being a hit. Similar to the Infiniti M45, undeniable performance but pretty ugly. The new M45 addresses that. I think GM will do a complete restyle with the GTO in a couple model years. Just hope the GTO just has a temporary shell just like the first gen escalade.

Stoneage_Caddy
06-07-04, 08:24 PM
"Market it as a European car brought to American roads."

No american car company will ever do that again , ford did a nice attempt with some very nice cars under the merkur name , never sold well at all ,after 5-6 years the party was over

to be honest the GTO isnt a total flop ,the newest GM flop is by far the malibu MAXX we bought ours in febuary and weve only seen 2 others on the roads so far , the rest are at dealerships awaiting a sucker . Styleing is a very big issue with boath cars , the gto is very outdated looking (i love it myself), if it was brought over 6 years ago with a lower sticker price named "Olds 442" they would have a had a hit ....

If they wanted to Sell GTOs or malibu maxxes they wouldnt have done it this way , to sell them it needs 4 doors ,4wd, 7 passenger seating and 9 inches of ground clearance

for proof , look at sales of the chevy equninox and the malibu maxx , there the same thing under the sheetmetal and have the same interiors but there are more equnioxes being sold than maxxes

to think people will buy anything but SUVs is just stupid , the days of haveing fun behind the wheel are over , now everyone looks at cars like appliances , "this will make jane next door jelous of me at the next dinner party"

Blackout
06-07-04, 09:52 PM
If you want a car that has a nice interior then get the GTO. You want a balls to the wall sports car get a Mach 1, GT, or Cobra. When I ran our Aviator at Atco a guy was staged next to me with a stock 2002 Mustang GT and did a 13.2. So I'm a believer of the GT, it just needs a good driver to achieve its maximum performance.

Randy_W
06-07-04, 10:52 PM
If you want a car that has a nice interior then get the GTO. You want a balls to the wall sports car get a Mach 1, GT, or Cobra. When I ran our Aviator at Atco a guy was staged next to me with a stock 2002 Mustang GT and did a 13.2. So I'm a believer of the GT, it just needs a good driver to achieve its maximum performance.
I'm not sure how you guys know these cars are 'stock', or what makes car #225 a pure stock Mach 1. I can print a time slip showing whatever I want, that doesn't make it so!
There isn't a pure stock GT on the planet that will run 13.2 on the original tires and stock gears. I've seen a lot of them run high 13's with a little tweaking. Ronnie Sox couldn't get a GT to run that fast in absolutly stock trim! That's a pipe dream for the Ford boys.

Also wouldn't the GTO benefit from better driving as much as the Mustang would?

Give me a break, the Mustang is what it is, an outdated Fox platform with a lot of power. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not as nice a daily driver or trip car as the GTO. The GTO is not now, nor was it ever primarily a drag car. Even in the sixties it was a high performance touring car. Comparing a Mustang to a GTO is like comparing candy to nuts, they're both food but that's where the likeness ends.:helpless:

ShadowLvr400
06-07-04, 11:10 PM
The Gt's not what runs 13.2, that's the Mach 1's, and the Machs go even faster too with the right driver. As for the way they have to be driven, the Mach1 is a bit... finnicky. Sadly, it's not a real consistent car. As for what the Mustang is, it's more a jack of all trades, not just an outdated fox platform. They do a pretty good job on the highways in their various forms. The GT is a pretty good GT car, soft enough suspension to not cripple, solid handling, but not a dedicated twisty car. The Mach 1 takes the performance aspect a step up, little harsher ride, but still pretty comfortable, even for long trips. Cobra's the high performance version obviously, going for as much sport as possible. The GTO gives more luxury, but for performance, it sits between the GT and Mach1, but priced over both. So I chose the Mach 1, because it's a closer price, a little less luxury (though their leather seats are pretty nice) but more performance. The "Pony" car is sort of an American version of the euro GT car.

SoundAdvantage
06-10-04, 05:28 AM
Since I expect to be flamed for that, ah well. My opinion, kill the GTO as it stands, bring over Holden as a company to replace Olds, bring the entire damn lineup, make it left steerers, and then sell it. Market it as a European car brought to American roads. Then you dont have to live up to the GTO's memory.

And GM needs to bring back the Camaro. Letting the Mustang vs Camaro/F-body war die... Worst idea EVER. Mustang and Camaro are the US automotive equivalents of Apple Pie and Baseball. You can't be the USA without them. Try that memory.

Or you could just save yourself about 20 grand and buy a Classic GTO and own a Real Muscle Car like the 1970 GTO Judge :D

Or one of the famous GTO siblings http://www.primo.4mg.com/catalog.html

Randy_W
06-10-04, 08:48 AM
Or you could just save yourself about 20 grand and buy a Classic GTO and own a Real Muscle Car like the 1970 GTO Judge :D

Or one of the famous GTO siblings http://www.primo.4mg.com/catalog.html
I don't know where you're getting your classic GTO pricing from, but you'd better look again!
Any #3 or better GTO '64 through '72, will start in the low $20k and a good one will be $30k - $50k. Even higher for rare cars like Judge convertibles and such!

I've been invoved in the classic car scene for years, and I wish I could buy a nice '65 Tri Power/4 spd for $13k!!!:D

Vesicant
06-10-04, 10:52 AM
It shares my cars chassis, and some parts too :D
but the Catera sold more :halo: .... although problems with it kinda made it seem like 7000 should have been made (97-99)

ChiMick
06-10-04, 11:26 AM
The appearance of the GTO is totally boring. A Mitsubishi Lancer is more appealing.
GTO's of the past screamed: "Lets Race" and this one does not live up to it's past.

SoundAdvantage
06-11-04, 04:40 AM
I don't know where you're getting your classic GTO pricing from, but you'd better look again!
Any #3 or better GTO '64 through '72, will start in the low $20k and a good one will be $30k - $50k. Even higher for rare cars like Judge convertibles and such!

I've been invoved in the classic car scene for years, and I wish I could buy a nice '65 Tri Power/4 spd for $13k!!!:D

I have owned a 1977 Pontiac Trans Am 6.6 Litre 400 for about 8 years now. It is all original inside and out and has 67k original miles. I bought the car for under a grand from a guy whos son was getting too many tickets in it :D My Uncle bought a 1966 GTO for under a grand also, same situation, the owners son had too many speeding tickets. Im not sure what these cars sell for or book for but "ANY" car is worth what someone will pay for it. You can find the old "Goats" and T/As for good prices if you look hard enough. They may need a new paint job or some body work but they are out their and the Restoration parts are available. The cars out west bring the highest prices. Here is a Sweet 69' GTO worth taking a look at, This car looks perfect :)

http://www.cars-on-line.com/69gto2672.html

M STaR 013
06-11-04, 05:12 AM
maybe if they made a convertable of it? like 60's and 70's. i heard some company bought the "Judge" name. more boosts of power along the way for it. i like the GTO in the blue color. shoulda made it a 5 speed auto, but GM was saying it would pushed back the release of it cuz they would have to start from scratch. here, they just use the same trans. as the C5 vette, maybe they shoulda just waited to release it when the C6 came out, but it coulda stold more sales from GTO, i dont know, it does seem kind of like the black sheep what with the corvette, and cts-v around that price range.

Randy_W
06-11-04, 09:02 AM
I have owned a 1977 Pontiac Trans Am 6.6 Litre 400 for about 8 years now. It is all original inside and out and has 67k original miles. I bought the car for under a grand from a guy whos son was getting too many tickets in it :D My Uncle bought a 1966 GTO for under a grand also, same situation, the owners son had too many speeding tickets. Im not sure what these cars sell for or book for but "ANY" car is worth what someone will pay for it. You can find the old "Goats" and T/As for good prices if you look hard enough. They may need a new paint job or some body work but they are out their and the Restoration parts are available. The cars out west bring the highest prices. Here is a Sweet 69' GTO worth taking a look at, This car looks perfect :)

http://www.cars-on-line.com/69gto2672.html
That's a very good price for that "GTO", if all is as it appears, but GTO's are one of the most counterfieted cars in history!! Before anyone buys any GTO it should be certified with PHS (Pontiac Historical Society).

Any #4 or better GTO between '64-'72 for under $20k is a bargain. I'm not blowing smoke, I deal and see these cars all the time and it's not unusual for '64-'67 conv. to bring $40-$50k!!!

Stoneage_Caddy
06-11-04, 01:27 PM
"but GTO's are one of the most counterfieted cars in history!! "

my neibor didnt help that situation , we tossed on all kinda GTO goodies to make it "look" like one , i liked it beatter as a lemans .......ended up selling it for quite a bit , hope that guy knew what he got

gothicaleigh
07-06-04, 11:59 AM
I'm a bit late to this thread(I was bored and decided to catch up on what I may have missed).



To get an idea of how well these are selling, the local Pontiac dealer by where I live (Michigan) has had a fully loaded Black on Red GTO sitting on the lot since March. Personally, I see it as no surprise. If you're not looking for it, it blends in alongside all the other cheap Pontiacs. The styling is killing this car.

Have you ever heard of a V sitting that long? Hell, every time I see one dropped off at a dealer, it's gone about a week later.

Some of you suggested that the sales would pick up when the GTO gets the LS2. I don't see the performance as the problem here. Hell, even the interior is amazing considering it's from Pontiac. The problem is the styling. It's a two door Catera (platform and bodywork), and remember how well those did?

Vesicant
07-06-04, 03:03 PM
Maybe its planning to be a gateway to a standing model soon, just like the Catera was- it lead the way to the makings of the CTS.

I wouldnt call the styling bland, but its smooth for a purpose. Doesnt look AS bland as the Monaro counterpart; thats for sure.

CoupeDevilleRob
07-06-04, 05:07 PM
The Pontiac dealer by me has had a blue GTO on the lot since February and a red one since April. Guess they aren't selling too well in The Bronx.

The dealer near my school, in Manhattan, has been moving GTOs though, they don't seem to hang around the showroom long.

Chuck C
07-06-04, 06:33 PM
when i statred this thread, I may have spoke out of place. I read on another forum (one of the GTO forums I believe) that GM's strategy was to give every single pontiac dealer at least one GTO. As a result of this failed strategy, GTOs are still sitting on lots in Maine, North Dakota, and elsewhere. The summer is the GTO's only savior, so we'll revisit this thread in September.

JohnnyO
07-07-04, 10:52 PM
:coolgleam In western PA it's mostly older folks here and the job market stinks so the younger folks don't generally have much money. The Pontiac dealer near my office has a couple of GTO's. I really like it but I think it's too expensive and as has also been mentioned, the market for two-doors is not so good these days. The Monte Carlo is not setting the world on fire sales-wise either. I think the Mustang is still around and the F-bodies are extinct because they got too big and too expensive (by comparison).

illumina
07-07-04, 11:19 PM
may be a bit late for me to join in here, but i like the GTO for the most part. there are a few things they could have done as far as styling is concerned, which IMO would be the rear end, such as an exhaust pipe from each side of the car instead of 2 coming from one side. and the price is not all that bad either, as according to MT magazine, you can get 2 of these bad boys for the price of 1 MB clk55 amg and then some. also, to me, the GTO looks like a pontiac, and a good car to go along with the GTP and the bonneville GXP.