: What happens when!!!!



LUVMY04V
06-27-08, 02:47 PM
The ***go dealers decide to do what they are doing with the zr1 with the Gen 2 V series?????


who will buy if the price reaches 85-90k :confused:

This will make you sick
http://jalopnik.com/396780/dealer-gouging-reportedly-sends-2009-corvette-zr1-to-amazingly-insane-price-of-413000

Bluhair
06-27-08, 02:55 PM
I don't think this will happen

Bluhair
06-27-08, 02:57 PM
I have my deposit in, with the price "to be determined" and a option to walk. However, he told me to expect 60K, 66K out the door.

I also want to add that I have given him my build specs, and I should be getting a "information packet" and a way to track the build process up until the middle of August, when I am supposed to be taking delivery.

I specifically hinted at a markup, and both dealerships I talked to said there was not going to be any mark up.

LUVMY04V
06-27-08, 03:09 PM
I hope your right....I just saw that link and it made me angry at those greedy dealers :nono:

Bluhair
06-27-08, 03:38 PM
I hope that is a isolated incident.

I had to deal with some of that, getting a GTR.

Cadillac Tony
06-27-08, 03:51 PM
When demand is greater than supply, the price of any item becomes "whatever they'll pay for it". Don't forget that MSRP stands for "Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price". Just to be clear: I don't condone this at all, and think paying 4x MSRP would require a special kind of lunacy. I've already guaranteed one Forum Member a CTS-V at MSRP, and am still taking deposits if more folks would like to lock in MSRP as well.

However:

It's a free market economy. As buyers, we're all very accustomed to asking the Dealer for a discount when MSRP is above "fair market value", so why should we be outraged if a Dealer asks the same when MSRP is below market value?

Food for thought.

LUVMY04V
06-27-08, 05:07 PM
When demand is greater than supply, the price of any item becomes "whatever they'll pay for it". Don't forget that MSRP stands for "Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price". Just to be clear: I don't condone this at all, and think paying 4x MSRP would require a special kind of lunacy. I've already guaranteed one Forum Member a CTS-V at MSRP, and am still taking deposits if more folks would like to lock in MSRP as well.

However:

It's a free market economy. As buyers, we're all very accustomed to asking the Dealer for a discount when MSRP is above "fair market value", so why should we be outraged if a Dealer asks the same when MSRP is below market value?

Food for thought.your a good guy tony :rolleyes: but i understand the dealers asking 15-20k (which is alot in my book) over msrp for a car of the zr1's magnitude but that stuff was crazy. Now if and in my opinion when the v starts getting the same attention hopefully the same wont happen.

But those guys buying zr1's will probebly want a 4 door version as well :cool:

Cadillac Tony
06-27-08, 05:35 PM
Oh I agree- The only thing more ridiculous than a Dealer charging 4x MSRP is the person dumb enough to pay it. I just wanted to point out that scarce quantities of a high demand product makes the MSRP meaningless. Enzo Ferraris all sold for at least $500,000 to $1,000,000 over MSRP because of the exclusivity, so some people might be willing to pay $400k for a ZR-1. It's still A Million cheaper than the Enzo, right? :lol:

chris1268
06-27-08, 06:19 PM
I also want to add that I have given him my build specs, and I should be getting a "information packet" and a way to track the build process up until the middle of August, when I am supposed to be taking delivery.



Are you saying that the dealership told you the V2 would be delivered to you in the middle of August?

Dr Chill
06-27-08, 09:10 PM
Unfortunately, your build specs are sitting in a file in your salesman's desk while GM has still not issued an order guide to the dealers. August has mysteriously turned into October/November if we're lucky, right Tony?

Cadillac Tony
06-27-08, 09:28 PM
Unfortunately, your Dealer is being a little "optimistic" by saying August. We already have the order guide up On-Line, but it contains no prices and will not let us complete and submit an order yet. If they were hitting lots in August, we'd already have prices and be ordering.

GM has never said anything except "Q4 2008" for the release of the 2009 CTS-V. That means that if it comes out by Dec. 31st, they've hit their goal.

MIACTSV
06-27-08, 10:43 PM
My dealer said they expected them in late Sept or Oct and I can wait until October, But I'll probably have a nervous breakdown if i have to wait to Dec 31:bonkers:

I WANT IT NOW!!!!:burn:

Jpjr
06-28-08, 01:00 AM
When demand is greater than supply, the price of any item becomes "whatever they'll pay for it". Don't forget that MSRP stands for "Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price". Just to be clear: I don't condone this at all, and think paying 4x MSRP would require a special kind of lunacy. I've already guaranteed one Forum Member a CTS-V at MSRP, and am still taking deposits if more folks would like to lock in MSRP as well.

However:

It's a free market economy. As buyers, we're all very accustomed to asking the Dealer for a discount when MSRP is above "fair market value", so why should we be outraged if a Dealer asks the same when MSRP is below market value?

Food for thought.

You are right on the money here. MSRP is suggested and dealers should not feel bad about charging more if they can get it.

My only problem is if/when I get 'retraded'. I don't think it is ethical for a dealer to agree on a price (or spot in line), and retrade you when they realize they have a higher bidder. They should take all options into consideration before the hand shake and stand by their word. As long as this practice continues, dealer's can't complain about customers that order cars and then walk. I personally can't stand either practice.

Cadillac Tony
06-28-08, 02:38 AM
You are right on the money here. MSRP is suggested and dealers should not feel bad about charging more if they can get it.

My only problem is if/when I get 'retraded'. I don't think it is ethical for a dealer to agree on a price (or spot in line), and retrade you when they realize they have a higher bidder.

Absolutely. Charging market value for a car sitting on your lot is one thing, but changing the price after an agreement has been made just stinks.

Bluhair
06-28-08, 09:38 AM
Dealers are notorious, for being "optimistic" about many things when selling the car. I was choosing between two dealerships, one said November and one said mid-august, guess which one got my deposit?

I am all too familiar with release dates, I have had a 10K deposit on a Nissan GTR since January. The latest story, is that they are in country, but Nissan hasn't finished their dealer training. What are they training for, the GM of the dealership already sold me the car, and the other 5 allocations he had behind me?!?!?!?

Plenty of GTR horror stories out there. I fortunately have a GM, that I know well....Like where he lives.....LOL!

Seriously though, Cadillac has been a treat to deal with, and my car could come in December and not matter a bit. What I am sweating for is my new toy/track car.

CIWS
06-28-08, 11:41 AM
Could some dealer out there be asking that ? Sure, but only a dumbazz with more money than brains would pay it. The ZR1 is a limited production model so it's not too surprising there will be some markup to get one, especially some of the first ones available to the public.

I talked with one of the execs at a local dealership yesterday and the word they're getting right now is the first 09Vs showing up in December-January now. If the rumors about not starting production till late Oct-Nov now, then that would be just about right. The first 06 STS and XLR-Vs didn't show up on time either, they were a few months "late". I just hope some of these folks out there who have put deposits down on an 09V with their local dealer understand how things work with a lot of the dealerships out there. One of my local dealerships already has 15 people who have put deposits down on one. How long do you think it's going to take for them to receive 15 09V cars from GM based on their dealership allotment once the car is first released ? Much less the fact the dealership is certainly going to show a certain preference to their long time / wealthy customers over an "average" joe who walks in and puts down a deposit. Wouldn't you ?

If Cadillac Tony is offering to to get you one at MSRP, I would seriously consider taking that offer.

Bluhair
06-28-08, 02:12 PM
In situations where the car is very popular, and numbers are limited, I find it best to involve an attorney. That is what i did with my GTR, and that is what I will do when my dealer gets MSRP finalized. I am third in line, and I expect to get the third car. If you have a attorney write up a contract stating price and delivery date, there should not be a problem. I really don't care if I get the third or tenth car from the dealership, as long as it is there on the agrees upon delivery date.

Unfortunately, dealing with unscrupulous dealerships, has honed my car buying techniques.

I here story after story, about Nissan dealerships, returning deposits and saying "You will be a "VIP" at the auction of your car, and you can bid like everybody else", including the flippers who already have customers shelling out 150K for a GTR.

Dr Chill
06-29-08, 01:45 AM
No need for attorneys. Just make sure the dealer spells out very clearly your place in line and the purchase price in relation to MSRP on the purchase order, and signs it. Attorneys come in when the dealer doesn't honor your written agreement.

lawfive
06-30-08, 01:22 PM
At the California Speedway meet the head of Cadillac marketing said that the V2 would hit showrooms in November. That may already be old news based on what CIWS is hearing.

GNSCOTT
07-07-08, 07:27 PM
I have been watching the ZR-1 prices closely. Like I thought would happen, there are dealerships on the Corvette forum that are now selling at $20k above msrp. All this and the car is not even out yet. By next spring they will be msrp. Most of the ZR1's sold on Ebay were won by the selling dealerships. One person caught his local dealership bidding on his own car. The guy stupidly pulled up the car on Ebay to show the customer what the bidding was up to, and it said " You have been outbid. Would you like to bid again?" right on the screen.

I saw the 04's on Ebay. I had no problem going to my local dealer, plunking down $1k deposit and getting his first one at msrp. if I waited 4 months I could have saved about $10k (6k off msrp and had an 05)

Why bother putting a deposit down on a car with no agreed upon price? (msrp + or - )

Buzz48317
07-13-08, 07:34 PM
Oh I agree- The only thing more ridiculous than a Dealer charging 4x MSRP is the person dumb enough to pay it. I just wanted to point out that scarce quantities of a high demand product makes the MSRP meaningless. Enzo Ferraris all sold for at least $500,000 to $1,000,000 over MSRP because of the exclusivity, so some people might be willing to pay $400k for a ZR-1. It's still A Million cheaper than the Enzo, right? :lol:

Hey Tony, don't mean to contradict you, but the Enzos were all sold at MSRP. Ferrari North America has a contract with their dealers that they don't sell new cars at a premium over MSRP. What would happen is that the dealerships would spec an Enzo and deliver it , at MSRP, to a customer that was hand selected by Ferrari and the new owner would then turn the car around as a previously titled used car and sell it for somewhere around $500,000 over what they had paid for it...the dealer and the customer splitting the windfall. BTW officially Ferrari made 399 Enzos for public consumption (this number is hotly debated with guesses of the actual production number somewhere around 500 units production number on the first Enzo was 103820 and the last one was 141920) with somewhere around 124 being made for the USofA and the last of the official 400 they made for Pope John Paul II which was auctioned for charity.

It still works this way at Ferrari. If you were lucky enough to have had a previous relationship with a Ferrari dealership and were able to get an early allocation on a 599GTB you could buy the car at the sticker price of about $350,000 and then market the car at the same dealership as a used car for about $500,000. In short, it pays to be buddies with the owner of a Ferrari dealership.

As far as I am concerned the market will always find its own level. Nobody is going to pay 4X MSRP on a car like the ZR1. For just a couple bucks more (well a hundred fifty grand or so, but at $400K what's another hundred and a half?) you can get a SSC Untimate Aero and own the fastest car in the world. This dealer will either bring the price down to a sellable level or he is going to own that ZR1 forever.

Cadillac Tony
07-13-08, 08:28 PM
Hey Tony, don't mean to contradict you...

It's cool- I should have been clearer about what I meant. Whether it was a Dealer or an enterprising customer that sold them for half a mil over MSRP, the point remains that the market supported it, which made MSRP meaningless.

Come to think of it, it's an even better example when you consider that people were paying that much over sticker for a USED car! :eek:

My point was just that the "S" in MSRP stands for "suggested". It's usually higher than what the market will bear, but in rare instances like the Enzo and ZR-1, it's lower.

Kmajecki
07-13-08, 09:39 PM
I know having the ZR1 means a lot, but i'd just get a Z06 and put $340,000 in mods on it. Bet i could keep up with the ZR1 then! haha