: Nitrous Wet Or Dry???



GONEB4U
06-06-04, 12:43 AM
I was thinking about installing nitrous on my 2002 Deville DTS. I was wondering if anyone installed a dry system on a 4.6 before. I have one on my 99 Trans Am and it works great.It put down over 500hp to the wheels. It works by shooting the dry nitrous on to the mass air and the computer would compensate the fuel through the injectors. Does our computers in the caddy's have the ability to compensate fuel because the mass air senses it? I know the other route is to go with a wet kit,but dry kits are just easier to hide and set up.

Dead Sled
06-06-04, 01:20 AM
depends on how much power you are looking for.

for a N* I'd go for a 75 horse shot dry. its your easiest and safest bet

GONEB4U
06-06-04, 10:31 AM
I'm looking for 75hp-100hp max. But do they shoot the N20 through the mass air or after the mass air? The reason I ask is because on some cars the o2's enrich the fuel mixture. On other cars the mass air enrichens the mixture.

ShadowLvr400
06-06-04, 10:41 AM
I run a wet 125 shot, direct port. It's a pain in the butt, and honestly, I'm not sure I'd recommend going the nitrous route. Unless you're good. I'd hunt for more consistent power first.

Randy_W
06-06-04, 10:53 AM
I've been running N2O for 25 years this month, on everything from stock street cars to my offshore boat and jet skiis. Properly installed and adequate fuel pressure, you can safely increase a stock engine's horsepower by 50%.

GONEB4U
06-06-04, 12:05 PM
Over the past 15 years I've owned 37 cars. Half of those cars were run with N20.I beleive carefull preperation and extensive research is the key to success.In all those years I never let myself get greedy or sloppy with my N20. I never lost a motor too date. Which is the reason I want to make sure if the caddy computer in 02 can compensate for the extra dense and cold air that would go through the mass air. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.:)

eldorado1
06-06-04, 12:46 PM
I personally think direct port injection is the best available system out there today... With dry systems, you always run the chance of leaning out, with wet systems, you can have different cylinders getting different A/F ratios... Direct port is the safest as far as longevity is concerned, but is also the most expensive... But then would you rather pay $500 more for 8 foggers and tubing, or $4000 for a new engine?

Randy_W
06-06-04, 03:59 PM
I personally think direct port injection is the best available system out there today... With dry systems, you always run the chance of leaning out, with wet systems, you can have different cylinders getting different A/F ratios... Direct port is the safest as far as longevity is concerned, but is also the most expensive... But then would you rather pay $500 more for 8 foggers and tubing, or $4000 for a new engine?The only part I ever lost directly to nitrous oxide was a piston on a stock Fiero GT when a fuel solenoid failed and leaned out the mixture. That was on an old Marvin Miller system of 1979 vintage.;)

I agree that direct port is the way to go, especially on a multi port injected engine.

GONEB4U
06-06-04, 04:38 PM
I understand that the best and most efficiant system is a direct port system. But I would like to know if the mass air in a 02 deville has the capabilities to enrichen the fuel curve through the injectors.:banghead:

eldorado1
06-06-04, 05:58 PM
I understand that the best and most efficiant system is a direct port system. But I would like to know if the mass air in a 02 deville has the capabilities to enrichen the fuel curve through the injectors.:banghead:
It might, but it wouldn't do enough... You'd still lean it out way too much. I'd go with a wet, direct port system. yes you'll have all kinds of lines running everywhere, but it's really the only safe way to do it.

GONEB4U
06-06-04, 06:19 PM
The computer in my 99 Trans Am handles my 150hp dry shot through my mass air with no problem. The car dyno's 390rwhp on motor and 505rwhp on spray. Again I'm not looking to put that much through the caddy but I'm hopeing that it (mass air & computer) can handle 75hp-100hp. Anyone ever tried this before?

Aurora40
06-06-04, 06:56 PM
But I would like to know if the mass air in a 02 deville has the capabilities to enrichen the fuel curve through the injectors.:banghead:
I've never installed nitrous on anything, so keep that in mind as you read this... :)

I'm sure the MAF has some ability to affect the fuel curve based on how much air it thinks is going through it. If it didn't, why have the sensor in the first place? However, N20 has more actual oxygen in it than the atmosphere, it isn't that it's really dense (though it may be denser than the atmosphere, I've no idea). So I wouldn't think a MAF would adjust enough as it would think it is all atmosphere that's going through it.

I would think the O2 sensor would have to play some role in bringing up the fuel. I believe (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that the O2 sensor can only differentiate between a certain range off of stochiometric. Further off one way starts to look like it's acutally the other way. The voltage over the range of mixture ratios is a wave, not a sloped line. So if the N2O changed the ratio a lot, I'd think the computer would not be able to adjust this properly. But this is all me guessing. :)

I do know that Borla did a progressive dry system on an Aurora back in the mid 1990's. It was only a 50-shot, and of course the 90's Premium V8 changed a lot when it became the 2000's Premium V8. So basically, I've no idea. In answer to your last question, it would appear that no, no one's ever tried it before. Did you make some fuel changes (pump, injector, etc) on your Firebird before it could crank out 500hp?

ShadowLvr400
06-06-04, 07:45 PM
I wouldnt want to put the nitrous so it runs past the MAF. I personally wouldn't give the MAF credit for taking the extreme temp difference. Nitrous is very very cold, way below freezing. I don't know its exact temp, but it's cold enough to give about a 2nd degree burn. I know this from personal experience. If you're going to do it, I'd recommend going direct port. The motor will take a sizable shot without too much harm, but I'd recommend having done the time serts first too. Just as precautions.

GONEB4U
06-07-04, 01:15 AM
Ls1 powered f-bodies can handle 400 hp to the wheels on stock injectors and pump. I was doing near that on motor so I upgraded my pump and injectors to put down over 500hp to the back tires. I know the computer takes data from the mass air and o2's on my Trans Am to compensate for the added n20 through the mass air. I know wet systems are a little safer then relying on the mass air to hold up but to this date I've yet to here about anyone having a problem with their dry kit on a ls1. Wet systems have a tendency to blow the crap out of plastic intakes and air box's if theirs a back fire. So I'm hoping to find someone who did a dry system through the mass air on a 02 N* and had success. If not then I guess I'm just gonna have to take the car to the dyno and start out with a 50hp shot and work my way up to 100hp shot.:D

GONEB4U
06-08-04, 11:22 PM
:banghead:

Randy_W
06-09-04, 10:41 AM
:banghead:
Sorry, Dude, I just don't think there is that much r&d with N20 on these cars!

ronbo
01-17-05, 03:16 PM
GONEB4U -
Did you ever try this?

I'm looking for help for my 98 Aurora... shy of swapping a 4.6l into it... which would be a waste of a perfectly good 4.0 (besides, I've yet to see if anyone has performed a 4.6L Aurora swap yet).

danbuc
01-17-05, 08:04 PM
I found this over on the LVC site. This person has a '98 STS, but they installed a dry system on it.

edited by Sal Collaziano: We do not associate with this site as the owner has spammed our members and has a long list of enemies online for bad etiquette. If you want to send somebody a link, send it to them via email.

ronbo
01-19-05, 02:31 AM
danbuc,
can you guide me in another way?... that link didn't work on my machine

Katshot
01-19-05, 08:11 AM
Up to 100 shot (dry) should be fine. The O2 sensors don't really make much difference in this case since the nitrous is only flowing at WOT. Once at that throttle angle, the injectors are basically just dumping based on the WOT table in the PCM.
I've been considering the same question myself recently and have pretty much decided on the 100hp dry system too mainly due to cost and ease of installation. If you were going for more power, I'd suggest a wet system and several other upgrades to support it. Replacing your EOM feul pump might be a good idea too. The last thing you want is to have the pump go lean on you during a nitrous run.

eldorado1
01-19-05, 02:18 PM
Up to 100 shot (dry) should be fine.

I'm going to disagree. The maximum I would be comfortable with is probably 50. Here's why:

With a dry system, you need to up the fuel pressure so that your injectors flow more for the new given oxygen. For 100 extra hp, you would need to turn your stock 19lb injectors (I think that's right, correct me if I'm wrong) into 25lb injectors. Given a stock pressure of ~45psi, you would need to crank it up to 85psi. IMO, that's unreasonable. Number one, I highly doubt the fuel pump would still be able to flow at the pressure, and number two, your injectors may not even be able to OPEN at those pressures.

as a side note, 350hp would require ~65psi, which is probably the ragged edge of where the system still works. I wouldn't use a dry system myself however, it's a lot more risky, and very prone to detonation if timing isn't retarded. (Something you can't do without an aftermarket ECM)

xdamxincx
03-27-10, 09:19 PM
I'm going to disagree. The maximum I would be comfortable with is probably 50. Here's why:

With a dry system, you need to up the fuel pressure so that your injectors flow more for the new given oxygen. For 100 extra hp, you would need to turn your stock 19lb injectors (I think that's right, correct me if I'm wrong) into 25lb injectors. Given a stock pressure of ~45psi, you would need to crank it up to 85psi. IMO, that's unreasonable. Number one, I highly doubt the fuel pump would still be able to flow at the pressure, and number two, your injectors may not even be able to OPEN at those pressures.

as a side note, 350hp would require ~65psi, which is probably the ragged edge of where the system still works. I wouldn't use a dry system myself however, it's a lot more risky, and very prone to detonation if timing isn't retarded. (Something you can't do without an aftermarket ECM)

and i highly disagree with your statements ... pretty much any fuel injected car will handle a 100 dry shot of nitrous. fuel injectors work in duty cycles and the computer can sense the added air intake by the presence of vacuum and that will make the injectors cycle more to provide more fuel and enough for a 100 shot of nitrous .. and same goes for timing u wont need much timing pulled for a 100 shot this will be done by knock sensors.. .... i will be doing it to mine here soon. just make sure that you guys use premium octane fuel
and this is based off of putting the nozzle after the mass air sensor.. if u put it downstream of the mass air .. it will measure air density and temperature and do all the same changes...

Ranger
03-27-10, 09:27 PM
Do you realize that this thread is 5 years old? Most of these guys have not even posted in over a year.

cl1986
03-27-10, 11:14 PM
well wheres all the blown up N* at???

xdamxincx
03-27-10, 11:39 PM
lol yea i know .. im just bored

AJxtcman
03-28-10, 12:36 PM
We ran 250 shot for a long time and even went way up to something like a 400 shot for a full day at the track. The engine hasn't been apart since we added the N2O

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/138069-how-install-nitrous-correct-way-i.html