: A replacement battery solution is still being worked on



heavymetals
06-21-08, 06:29 PM
Lunarx and I have been doing some legwork on an alternate battery for the V.

You are probably aware by now my feelings about the group 101 POS in our cars.

For the present, this place:

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/index.htm

Makes a hotsh*t battery that will fit (PC1200) but it does not have the CCA that the OEM does (550 vs 660) which I don't think is a big deal unless your grinding the starter in sub zero weather.

Also, an adapter hold-down plate will be needed to match the group 78 footprint, but no big deal as West Coast fabs the stuff (check the accessories).

We are talking to the battery manufacture and it looks like the 1500TD will work, but the posts need to go.

That may come later, but at least there will be an alternative very soon as all that is needed is the adapter hold-down plate, which West Coast said they will talk to their vendor about making.

As more of these cars are hitting end of warranty, we are pretty sure nobody wants to use the same POS battery. :banghead:

lunarx
06-21-08, 07:28 PM
I'm sure many of you already know this, but Odyssey is the best battery made.
The military and other severe duty users won't accept anything less.

The PC1200 I'm hoping to put in my V has served duty in 2 previous cars already since '00.
It's still going strong.
That's a typical example of how amazing these battery are.

They literally outlast any battery 3++ to 1.
They are a bargain when you realize the economics of that.
It's the main reason so many severe duty fleet operators refuse to buy anything less.

Twitch
06-21-08, 09:57 PM
Dealer replaced my battery before I bought the car. I didn't know it was that bad. How much would the total swap be?

heavymetals
06-21-08, 10:56 PM
I don't know what the adapter plate and hold down will be, but it shouldn't be out of line with the other stuff they offer.

The battery (PC1200) lists for around $200.00.

sefa01
06-22-08, 12:07 AM
Wanted to replace battery after 4 years and went to Cadillac FAQs. This is what was said:

What battery do I use to replace my stock battery?

After deciding the battery in my 03 was not going to make it through the winter. Among other things it couldn't even light up its indicator after a lengthy daytime drive. So I decided to do a bit of shopping. Thought I'd pass on the results.

The stock battery is a 690 cca ACDelco in a fairly new group size: 101. Not many places carry a group 101 battery, and those I found were pretty pricey. Now, it turns out that a group 101 is almost exactly the same width and length as a group 78 battery, and about a half-inch shorter. In the cts, incidentally, it sits on a battery tray that's at least that thick.

Solution: Wal-Mart MAXX group 78N. 900 cca. Warranted free replacement for 3 years, prorated replacement for years 4-9. Top of the group 78 ratings at Consumer Reports, and a best buy. Paid all of $68 + tax.

It's a tighter fit than the original, but not so tight as to require bending, cutting or hammering. I though I might have to 'adjust' the thickness of the battery tray, but doing so was not required.


The price is now $73, but includes free installation. Fits fine. Just can't see paying $200 for a battery.

heavymetals
06-22-08, 01:38 AM
I knew about that replacement, and in fact I posted that from the CTS forum here several years ago..

Some guys want a no nonsense battery and ergo, the ODYSSEY.

Some have used an OPTIMA but that requires drilling a hole in the hood for the post to clear.

The stock battery is a Group 78 footprint, but it is height (because of the post) that is the kicker.

Look at the ODYSSEY warranty and service life before you knock it.

As it is, I have extended warranty for my car (10 years/100k mi.) so I won't be buying a new battery anytime soon (I am on my second).

lunarx
06-22-08, 01:55 AM
Wallmart Battery FTW.
Can't compete w/ free Installation ;)


Personally there is always a place under my hood for the best products.

I really like Odyssey batteries. :thumbsup:

It's nice knowing corrosive gases and acid won't be flying around under my beloved hood.

My battery cables will forever stay corrosion free.

I will never be using a wire brush to clean off that crusty powder build-up.

I won't be finding rusty sheet metal in the vicinity of the battery.

Car will always fire up after extended park times.

If the battery ever does get drained, it will recharge quickly to full capacity.

I will never need to bother exchanging or pro-rating it.

I may move it to a 4th car, if I ever sell my current V.

I can't wait to get my [8 year old] Odyssey PC1200 into my V. :bouncy:

Odyssey battery really are the best.
There is no comparison to anything else.
(Please don't even mention Optima, as they are not in the same leauge)

Even my GF , who is is Mrs. Scrooge, when it comes to car expenses, begged me to get her an Odyssey PC1200 for her car.
She hated all the corrosion damage from her OEM battery.
It's not like I didn't tell her to get one, back when it was new, in order to prevent all that.
Live and learn. :halo:

This forum is full of posts from people who got stranded when their 101 died-hard and would not take a charge.
I believe the majority of V owners are already on their 2nd 101 (myself included).

All things considered, the Odyssey really is cheaper than enything else.
It's the classic pay now or pay-more later syndrom. :)

CTSV_Rob
06-22-08, 03:38 AM
Still on #1.

I believe relocating the cats helped to save mine.

DILLIGAF
06-22-08, 12:27 PM
My crappy Wallmart battery has been in my V 3 years now.Go figure

lunarx
06-22-08, 01:12 PM
My crappy Wallmart battery has been in my V 3 years now.Go figure
That's like bragging about a 15sec 1/4 mile. :D


My overpriced Odyssey is still going strong after 8 years and 2 cars.
It's standing by for install into a 3rd car (ideally my V).

I think some are missing that the Odyssey is a sealed battery.

Conventional batteries are vented.
What happens to a conventional battery if it is turned on it's side?
A conventional battery can't be placed in a passenger compartment, because it spews corrosive/caustic fumes and posibly splashes acid.

Odyssey has none of those issues.
The complete lack of corrosion is huge for me.
Us CA guys like our cars corrosion free. :yup:

On top of that, they far outlast any other battery on the market.
(Optima only tries to compete but can't even get close)

Sure it's not the battery for everyone.
Only a select few would appreciate it. :)

vegasVowner
06-22-08, 04:49 PM
That's like bragging about a 15sec 1/4 mile. :D


My overpriced Odyssey is still going strong after 8 years and 2 cars.
It's standing by for install into a 3rd car (ideally my V).

I think some are missing that the Odyssey is a sealed battery.

Conventional batteries are vented.
What happens to a conventional battery if it is turned on it's side?
A conventional battery can't be placed in a passenger compartment, because it spews corrosive/caustic fumes and posibly splashes acid.

Odyssey has none of those issues.
The complete lack of corrosion is huge for me.
Us CA guys like our cars corrosion free. :yup:

On top of that, they far outlast any other battery on the market.
(Optima only tries to compete but can't even get close)

Sure it's not the battery for everyone.
Only a select few would appreciate it. :)

Does it get lonely up there on your pedestal?:bighead:
Sorry, had to chime in after the last two sentences of that statement. But you're right, to each his own on the battery issue though.

heavymetals
06-22-08, 08:10 PM
Let's try to minimize the pointless sarcasm. :thepan:

trukk
06-23-08, 03:19 PM
Let's try to minimize the pointless sarcasm. :thepan:

F\/c|<, I won't have anything to poast anymore :(

Has anyone looked into doing a battery relocation to the trunk?

-Chris

BTW, 'poast' is for TBJS.

lollygagger8
06-23-08, 04:20 PM
I just replaced my stock battery in March (due to low CCA - i'm in Indiana) with a Batteries Plus replacement. ($80) Ya, I had to replace it again last week!!! Yes, it sat for 3 weeks waiting for new diff, but wouldn't take a charge and had to be replaced under warranty. SUNUVA! If this turd goes bad, I'll get my $$ back and go somewhere else. I might try the Walmart option since it's cheaper.

What I DON'T understand, is how is a CTS and CTS-V have the same battery? I know it takes more power to crank over a V-8 compared to a V-6

heavymetals
06-23-08, 04:28 PM
The group 101 battery was designed for the sole purpose of keeping a division of AC Delco employed.:rant2:

It didn't bring more reliability or longer life so WTF did it do except hogtie the owner into a propritiary POS?

Here is the funny (if you think so) part.

In making the V they were required to use off the shelf items (ergo our wonderful 6 lug truck hubs), but guess what they had to use for a battery?

Engineers Vs beancounters, guess who wins and guess who ends up on the losing end (us).

I don't have to buy a battery for 10 years or 100k mi, but I can tell you that when it comes time to buy a replacement it ain't gonna be a group 101.

BeagleBrains
06-23-08, 10:11 PM
Replaced the 2004 V battery with an Optima March 2008, exceeds OEM specs. The dealer made the change, at my request. Been using Optima for many years. I like the 7 year/no prorate replacement. I have only replaced an Optima because it had reached the Warranty time-out; never had a failure.
I never wait for a component to expire at my inconvenience.

heavymetals
07-20-08, 08:38 PM
Got a call on friday from West Coast Battery.

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/

They now have an adapter for the PC1200 to fit our car. :thumbsup:

DRKSIDE
07-21-08, 01:06 AM
Do you have a link or should we just call them and ask for the "forum special?"

heavymetals
07-21-08, 02:50 AM
I don't think they even visit this forum.

Lunarx is going to confirm that the design is right (right ?).

Lunarx assured me that the guy understood what was required (not rocket science) so I expect it to work.

If not it ain't a big deal for them to make it work as they have a machinest just for this stuff.

Just so your aware, the battery (in this application) will be mounted sideways (ok according to the spec) so you want the positive post on the right. That way the terminals will be correct when you rotate the battery 180 deg and lay it on it's side.

The battery #'s are PC1200T or PC1200MJT

If I wasn't under warranty I would buy one.

CIWS
07-21-08, 09:15 AM
Although I wouldn't go the 200.00 battery route, it is good to see as many options as possible for our OEM cell being posted in the forum. Each individual can decide what works best for them. The info and choice(s) is what counts.

Once y'all get the info together how about see if it can be added to the info @ the FAQ.

ichpen
07-21-08, 12:07 PM
Got a call on friday from West Coast Battery.

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/

They now have an adapter for the PC1200 to fit our car. :thumbsup:

I'd be very interested in getting this. I wonder if they can ship this to Canada (worth a try) as I don't see any Canadian resellers.

So, is it PC1200 or 1200MJT? The MJT has a metal jacket (about the only difference I could spot). Positive terminal is on the right (depending on which way you look at it) :)

Is the adapter you speak of required or will it fit simply mounted on its side?

lunarx
07-21-08, 12:36 PM
Well they missed the whole point.
All they made was a simple strap, that has no real use for our application.

We are back to getting something made by a custom fabricator.

ichpen
07-21-08, 01:21 PM
Well they missed the whole point.
All they made was a simple strap, that has no real use for our application.

We are back to getting something made by a custom fabricator.

Hmmm... OK, thanks for the update. Can the battery simply be mounted on its side without the custom work or is it truly a bad fit?

lunarx
07-21-08, 01:39 PM
I believe it could.
However, since the tray is plastic I felt it was not adequate to support the load of straps.

I'm looking to get an adapter made, that allows it to bolt in just like a stock battery.
This takes advantage of the stock attachment point, which has the required strength.

heavymetals
07-21-08, 01:47 PM
I guess it is rocket science!

lunarx
07-21-08, 02:12 PM
The V is a rocket right? :rolleyes:

ichpen
07-21-08, 03:30 PM
I believe it could.
However, since the tray is plastic I felt it was not adequate to support the load of straps.

I'm looking to get an adapter made, that allows it to bolt in just like a stock battery.
This takes advantage of the stock attachment point, which has the required strength.

Keep on it. If you manage to get somewhere put me down for one. So is it PC1200 or PC1200MJT out of curiosity? May as well get one ordered as that will take some time.

lunarx
07-21-08, 04:06 PM
The MJ suffix stands for Metal Jacket.
Either version will do.
MJ only costs a small bit more, so I always get it.

Don't worry about buying the battery early.
They should be readily available when the time comes.

I'm going to ask if we can use Heavy's source for the mount.
If not, I have 2-3 other sources I can try.

trukk
07-21-08, 04:08 PM
again, has anyone looked into relocating the battery to the trunk? If we have to fab something anyway, why not move it back there, where size isn't really a factor anymore?

-Chris

heavymetals
07-21-08, 05:37 PM
Why not just go back to West Coast and tell them that what they made isn't going to work?

They seemed pretty willing to do most anything and they already make adapters.


The MJ suffix stands for Metal Jacket.
Either version will do.
MJ only costs a small bit more, so I always get it.

Don't worry about buying the battery early.
They should be readily available when the time comes.

I'm going to ask if we can use Heavy's source for the mount.
If not, I have 2-3 other sources I can try.

onebadcad
07-21-08, 05:55 PM
To answer Chris,
I considered rear battery relocation, even bought the kit from Summit (you also need a long cable), did not do it as I thought the tire well was the best place, but filled it with spare tire after being stuck on the highway for three hours without one. Cannot recall if anyone has done one, but if you do not want it on the floor of trunk, the well is no-brainer. Would not want to put it on the trunk floor, as gets in the way of golf clubs:cool2:.

To all those considering another battery, seen this one:

http://www.brailleauto.com/

Not sure it will work with the V, but it is damn light.

I have the WalMart one, it rocks, was the only one available at 1:00 A.M. when I needed it, so I am loyal and its been good for 2+ years.
The Optima also hits on the EC hood-don't ask me how I know this...

Civardi
07-21-08, 06:53 PM
I have the WalMart one, it rocks, was the only one available at 1:00 A.M. when I needed it, so I am loyal and its been good for 2+ years.

Thats the one I got.

heavymetals
07-21-08, 07:20 PM
UPDATE.

Ok, there was a slight communication failure, but no big deal.

There is now a hold down bracket:

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/fullsize/hd1200sm.htm

It is shown with the wrong battery post location so don't freak out.

What is needed now is an adapter plate for the hold down bracket to mate to that matches the footprint of the old battery so the mounting is the same.:cool:

WE ARE 75% there!

lilred
07-21-08, 09:39 PM
Instead of going with goofy hold downs and aftermarket batteries is there any way of replacing the stock battery tray so a normal group 78 will fit?

heavymetals
07-21-08, 09:43 PM
Instead of going with goofy hold downs and aftermarket batteries is there any way of replacing the stock battery tray so a normal group 78 will fit?


Why do you think we are going through all this trouble?

Short answer is NO.

lunarx
07-21-08, 10:55 PM
Trukk and onebadcad do bring up good points.

I would do rear relocation in a heartbeat if it could be done, without loosing any rear trunk space.
The Tire Well is out, since I plan to run a spare.

I don't remember there bieng an abundance of room behind the trunk liners.
However if 2-3 smaller Odyssey (or Braille) batteries could fit there, then we would have a nice solution. :thumbsup:

ichpen
07-22-08, 10:03 AM
UPDATE.

Ok, there was a slight communication failure, but no big deal.

There is now a hold down bracket:

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/fullsize/hd1200sm.htm

It is shown with the wrong battery post location so don't freak out.

What is needed now is an adapter plate for the hold down bracket to mate to that matches the footprint of the old battery so the mounting is the same.:cool:

WE ARE 75% there!


Good job so far. Where are you thinking of sourcing the plate?

lunarx
07-22-08, 12:15 PM
The Odyssey guys are going to take a shot at the plate.
They may/may-not drill & tap for the bracket attachment.
Either way works for us, as long as we are making progress.
One step at a time. :D

ssmith100
07-22-08, 01:40 PM
Heavy,

Let me know when you guys get this completed. My stereo is killing my factory battery. I looked at retrofitting an Optima but didn't have the time.


Shane

heavymetals
07-22-08, 02:09 PM
Good job so far. Where are you thinking of sourcing the plate?


The plate is no big deal.

What baffles me is West Coast Battery telling me one thing and Lunarex another :bonkers:

First they tell me that they understand exactly what is needed and are gonna "jump right on it", then they tell Lunarex that they have doubts.

It is for their benefit! :thepan: and it is not like they don't make or have adapters made anyway.

Anyway, if it comes down to getting one fabbed on our own I will look to getting a quantity done.

At least two (one for Lunarex and one for me), as when I go out of warranty, I am replacing the battery and the PC1200 looks very good to me.

GMBOUND
07-22-08, 02:14 PM
Heavy,

Let me know when you guys get this completed. My stereo is killing my factory battery. I looked at retrofitting an Optima but didn't have the time.


Shane

Just put the same Kinetic battery that Hester put in my car. You've seen the pics. That thing is great!

I can have the car off and play my system for a hot minute w/o having any issues cranking.

Prior to this if I left a door open, the car wouldn't start. I couldn't even think about playing the radio!

Kinetic

ichpen
07-24-08, 11:26 AM
Spoke to the guys at brailleauto. They confirmed that their batteries will fit as they're typically substantially smaller in size than OEM. Apparently they are OEM for the new 08 Vettes. There's also an aluminum bracket that's being made for GM vehicles (not in production yet) that has self-drilling screws that can be mounted on the CTS-V tray (at least that's the theory).

Looking at their batteries the top of the line is 3121. They are racing carbon fiber batteries (sealed) hence benefits are weight reduction (about 20lbs lighter than stock) as well as extra resistance to heat/abuse. The downside is that their top of the line has a CCA (at 0) of only 550 amps meaning it's lower than stock (690).

This should bother those of you in the southern states but up here in Canada, we do hit temps this low so I'm a little hesitant now. Plus they're not cheap.

TBMCTSV
08-12-08, 06:08 AM
Why isn't a new battery tray possible for a bigger battery?? Is it welded in place?

TBMCTSV
08-19-08, 11:07 PM
Anyone?

heavymetals
08-19-08, 11:53 PM
The bracket for the ODYSSEY battery is done so all you need to do is make a base out of a piece of flat material about 3/8" thick.

A cutting board will work but your wife will be looking for it for days.....:histeric:

lunarx
08-19-08, 11:59 PM
They were supposed to be making a base.
We need to check on it.

ichpen
08-31-08, 02:40 AM
Update on my story, installed the Braille 3121 light weight battery.

Now it's quite a bit smaller than stock and weighs about 15 pounds less which is good. The aluminum mount is also good but I had to mount it sideways and it's not a perfect fit. Drilled the screws into the factory base. Also, the GM cable screws are a bit larger than the positive/negative terminal holes for this thing so had to use top posts (included brass pillars) + the sidemount adapter which made space a bit of an issue.

Just wondering if anyone's replaced the positive/negative terminal screws (best I can describe them) with smaller ones or whether I can get some sort of an adapter so that I can ditch the top posts altogether i.e. a side a gm side post stud that's smaller than stock.

Overall pretty impressed with the battery itself. Very light and well built. Car at idle was showing 14.4 volts and never dipped below 13 at full throttle.