: Help on speeding ticket!!!



kdsevillle
06-01-08, 04:44 PM
Was driving to the beach over a hill doing the speed limit and then this chevy SUV flew past and cut me off. A couple cops pull both of us over and the Pig said I was doing 76!!! I said no, the SUV that cut me off was doing 76, I was doing not even 50 MPH.

He gives the SUV a ticket and me a ticket. I was going to be 311 bucks but he wrote it for 86 plus 2 points on my license! Thats B.S.!!!!

Is there any way I can fight this crap in court?????

Thanks all!!!!!!

chubbyranger
06-01-08, 05:31 PM
Get a lawyer to request the dash cam tape or send a certified letter to the police department requesting it, I believe they are public record. Go to court and explain your side of the story calmly and non-confrontationally. Do not use the term 'pig' in court. Wear a suit. 50/50 chance after that. Actually, if the age in your profile is correct I'd say less than 50/50. I think all cops assume anybody under 40 is speeding. Anybody under 20 must be at double the limit.

kdsevillle
06-01-08, 05:35 PM
Thanks for the tips man. I hope I can get rid of that ticket. I was so upset, but kept my cool talking to the cop. Said Yes sir and No sir the whole time. And don't worry, I wont call them pigs lol.

Krashed989
06-01-08, 06:12 PM
It helps to be friends with a lot of cops. LOL.... I live in a small neighborhood so I know the whole police, fire and EMT departments. They're all pretty cool. I've gone to dinner parties and such with them.... I did get pulled over once a long time ago (didn't realize that I sped up so much while coasting down a hill.) He let me off with a warning.

kdsevillle
06-01-08, 06:41 PM
my best friends dad is a cop. I called him but he was sleeping (he works night shift's) I'm gonna see what he can do. If he can do something that is...

chubbyranger
06-01-08, 08:34 PM
my best friends dad is a cop. I called him but he was sleeping (he works night shift's) I'm gonna see what he can do. If he can do something that is...

Don't expect that he can 'do' anything for you - but ask his advice on the best course of action. When I posted "wear a suit" above I wasn't blowing smoke. I beat a ticket once (sure, back in the 80s) I think primarily because I was the best dressed defendant in the courtroom. It was either that or the electomagnetic interference multipath sidelobe distortion BS I tried blowing by the judge. Watched a kid 2 cases before me who showed up in cutoff shorts (yeah they wore them then) and a T-shirt get his a$$ handed to him. You also did absolutely the right thing with the "yes sir, no sir" deal too - one of the reasons the judge claimed he let me off was good attitude toward the officer.

kdsevillle
06-01-08, 08:58 PM
Good for you man, I'm gonna try my best to get rid of this ticket. I know that the cop clocked the other guy at 76and thought I was going 76 as well. I'm fighting this in court and he has to prove to me I was speeding. But I'll should be in good shape if I can get that dash cam tape. If I can get that The judge will see how wreckless that other guy was and dismiss my ticket.

Ranger
06-01-08, 09:29 PM
You have that backwards. He has to prove to the judge that you where speeding. Actually, YOU have to prove that you where not. In reality, you are guilty till proven innocent and the burden of proof is on you. Having a lawyer will greatly improve your odds, but that will cost you. Good luck.

chubbyranger
06-01-08, 10:24 PM
Actually, the burden of proof is on the state - fundamentals of our justice system. The officer can claim that he/she observed or clocked the defendant at the alledged speed and its up to the judge to decide whether or not the officer is correct. Any excupatory evidence you can introduce works in your favor. The best scenario here is that they don't cough up the dash cam tape or don't respond to a certified letter requesting it; the judge may get the flavor that the charges are a wee bit flimsy. A lawyer is the best bet though - you need to balance what they cost vs. the potential increase in insurance rates.

ilikecru
06-01-08, 10:25 PM
UGGHHH.....

Here we go!!!!!!

I am asked all the time, "what can I do to get out of a speeding ticket?".

I always have the same answer. I tell them this:

There is a little known secret that if used, it works EVERYTIME. Evey Officer I know, when this "secret" is used, will ALWAYS, I mean ALWAYS, let you go. It has a 100% proven rate of sucess. If someone uses it on me, off they go.

So what is it?

Easy..............OBEY THE SPEED LIMIT..............

Yup. Its that easy.

I seriously doubt that you were not speeding. I doubt that he wrote you a ticket that you didn't deserve. And just how did I come to this?

Several reasons:

1. Officers are highly trained and then retrained at least once every two years on RADAR and LiDAR. Most of the training involves visually estimating speeds of vehicles and THEN observing what the device reads. We are trained to pick out fast cars and taught that if you can't tell which car it is, you don't stop any of them.
I think you are under the impression that modern RADAR can only pick out one vehicle at a time. Newer RADAR ( like the Stalker DUAL SL) that I use can pick out two vehicles (like a tractor trailer and a Honda) at the same time and I get a speed reading on both.
LiDAR is even better. I can "pick-off" a vehicle third in line from 3,000 feet away. All I do is aim, and pull the trigger. The "beam" is so narrow that it CAN'T be anyone but you.

2. Maybe you think he "got you" when you saw him. Again, how mant times have I had to tell people, "Nope, I got you WAYYYY back there!, not up here when you saw me!" Maybe you weren't able to see him, but, I bet he saw you long before you knew he was there.

3. Why would the "pig" (btw, I LOVE that term, PRIDE, INTEGERTY, GUTS, thats ME!) put his entire life on the line to screw up YOUR driving record. You see, we have to swear, under perjury, that everything in that ticket is true and correct to the best of out knowledge.
That means, if we lie, not only can you sue us, but, WE CAN GO TO FEDERAL PRISION. Yup, thats right, we can go to jail.
Why wouldn't he just wait for the next person who is SPEEDING to come by and ticket him?
If you think it has to do with your age, well, go stand on the side of a highway and tell me how old people are as they approach you at 70 mph. I can't tell if your a man, a woman, or a dog driving a car at that speed, much less tell you how old I think you are. Kinda throws out that whole " You just stopped me because (insert stupid reason here, eg. cause I'm drving a nice car, cause I'm a good looking young female, cause whatever, etc...)

Just to clear up a few things, we don't have quotas. We don't get a bonus just because we write so many tickets. We don't get any more pay or any "perks" if we write tickets versus warnings.

Out jobs DO NOT depend on tickets. This is a small portion of what most Officers do.

We don't get any of the money, it doesn't benefit us in any way (unless you count that most of it goes to road maintanice across the State) and our Commanders could care less if we write 50 tickets or 50 warnings.

The fact is, your young, and just by your attitude displayed here alone, I probabaly would have wrote you too. You seem to accept no possiblity that maybe, just MAYBE, you were speeding, and maybe, just MAYBE, you deserved the ticket. No, you resort to name-calling and bad-mouthing. You come here and look for a way to "get rid of it".

That my friend, is being immature. And that makes you an accident waiting to happen. The perosn you kill speeding could be a friend of mine, or a co-worker, or.....maybe someone in my family.

And what gives YOU that right?

I'm sorry, if you don't like what I have to say. If, by some chance, and I will admit that there can be, that you WERE NOT speeding, then, go to court. Pled your case and use your right to make the Officer PROVE you were speeding.

Maybe the Judge will believe you. Maybe not.

But, I don't think this is your FIRST ticket either or you wouldn't be so desperate to "get out of it".

People ask me all the time when I am handing them a ticket, "you must really enjoy doing this don't you?". I usually just smile and say nothing. But, the truth is, do I enjoy slowing people down? Do I enjoy maybe saving someone's life? Do I enjoy making the roads safer for law-abiding travelers?

YOU BET I DO....

And its a shame that YOU have to be fined to understand that.

I'm sorry you got caught. But, play the game enough, and you are bound to lose every once in a while.

That being all said, flame on my friend !!

jeffrsmith
06-01-08, 10:46 PM
What he said, but as a side note

My son got written for doing 62 in a 45, on the advice of a lawyer friend my son marked the ticket not guilty signed it and sent it in. About 3 weeks later we got notification in the mail that the charge was dismissed.

Based on the dismissal of the charges you could draw many conclusions, but my son had a clean driving record and he said that he was polite and respectful to the officer when he was stopped.

I do not condone speeding, but I also don't like donating money to the system.

sint3k
06-02-08, 04:06 AM
Just get a laser jammer and all your problems will go away :) Make sure your in "at least" light traffic tho cause the pig wont know whos car is jamming his laser it will make the digital read out go crazy :P and yea there illegal but only if you get caught. And i don't think cops giving out tickets for speeding saves lives most accidents are from people not paying attention not speeding i doubt you saved anyones life slowing them down pig "sence you like the term so much" infact people pay more attention when speeding looking out for pigs like you :P and another thing yea you don't have quotas but you have "goals" as most departments like to call it stop feeding us bs my brother is a pig. But in all honesty i'm sure your department "one of few" doesn't have quotas just these tiny things we call goals and don't bother responding to my post with crap or try to insult me i wont be reading this thread anymore.

Submariner409
06-02-08, 11:31 AM
Other than the premise that one or two of our juvenile, illiterate posters owns some sort of Cadillac, what does this thread have to do with Eldorado/Seville repair and operation ???

ilikecru
06-02-08, 11:46 AM
Just get a laser jammer and all your problems will go away :) Make sure your in "at least" light traffic tho cause the pig wont know whos car is jamming his laser it will make the digital read out go crazy :P and yea there illegal but only if you get caught. And i don't think cops giving out tickets for speeding saves lives most accidents are from people not paying attention not speeding i doubt you saved anyones life slowing them down pig "sence you like the term so much" infact people pay more attention when speeding looking out for pigs like you :P and another thing yea you don't have quotas but you have "goals" as most departments like to call it stop feeding us bs my brother is a pig. But in all honesty i'm sure your department "one of few" doesn't have quotas just these tiny things we call goals and don't bother responding to my post with crap or try to insult me i wont be reading this thread anymore.






And nope, we don't have "goals" or quotas or anything similar. Do we have to justify what we have done all day? Sure. Just like every other working person.

But, if I walk in with three accident reports and no traffic enforcement, that is all the same to my Commanders. If I walk in with 30 warnings for seat-belts at the end of the day, and not 1 speed violation, they don't care. Call it what you want, but, Commanders (like other bosses) don't want you just "playing" around all day and not getting anything done. They don't care what you are doing, as long as your doing your job!!


And LiDAR jammers don't work. The unit measures your speed in under a 1/4 of a second. The "jammers" don't have enough time to find the light signal, authenicate the source, respond back to the LiDAR unit with a much more powerful light beam, etc...

By the time that all happens, I have got you !!

LiDAR uses a time-distance formula for speed measurements. Not real easy for most people to build something that can "jam" the unit.

Good try though......

Try just doing the SPEED LIMIT....

Last, why would I stoop to insults? If, by chance, you do come back and read this, I only ask that you do a little research on vehicle crash causation. You will discover that a LARGE number of fatal crashes can be DIRECTLY attributed to speed. Speed plays a major factor in DUI related fatal crashes.

Many a person would have survived if they were going slower (i.e. the speed limit).

Tell your brother thank you for his service and STAY SAFE !!

dwight.j.carter
06-02-08, 01:52 PM
If you ask me the police department is a buisness just like every other buisness they are in it to make money. One example would be the fines they have gotten far out of hand. And if you ask me the police have become very dishonest and sneaky. I recently got a ticket by a cop driving a regular unmarked police car. In my opinion it was very sneaky and dishonest for him to not be in a squad car.

chubbyranger
06-02-08, 02:09 PM
I recently got a ticket by a cop driving a regular unmarked police car. In my opinion it was very sneaky and dishonest for him to not be in a squad car.

:hmm: But were you speeding? :thepan:

dwight.j.carter
06-02-08, 02:19 PM
I wasn't looking and since I was driving a northstar cadillac I am going to say probably. I thought about fighting it or at least showing up to see if the cop did but I decided to pay it.

firstimecaddi
06-02-08, 03:16 PM
@ilikecru...your first post on this thread, man what a load of shyte. Man yall cops are the worse offenders out there. Ever heard the saying all cops are criminals, yall get away with the most wrong doing. In court is my word against yours and in most cases the judge sides with the cop, so its 2 to 1. and you know that.....only good cop is the one that has stopped breathing

cadillacroadside
06-02-08, 03:33 PM
excellent post

dwight.j.carter
06-02-08, 03:58 PM
Most cops are the duechebags that were picked on in high school just out for revenge !

ilikecru
06-02-08, 04:00 PM
@ilikecru...your first post on this thread, man what a load of shyte. Man yall cops are the worse offenders out there. Ever heard the saying all cops are criminals, yall get away with the most wrong doing. In court is my word against yours and in most cases the judge sides with the cop, so its 2 to 1. and you know that.....only good cop is the one that has stopped breathing


OOOHHH....OK....

If you already know the outcome, if you already know you are going to be found guilty, why did you come here looking for a different answer?

Oh, I know, because here you think someone will feel sorry for you.

NOT ME !!!

And I don't think you know me well enough to judge me. I have been nothing but respectful to you and yet you refuse to show me the same. No wonder you get yourself into trouble like this.

As for cops being the worst offenders- Yeah, sure, we speed, we run red lights, we don't always obey signs. But, usually, and I mean most of the time, there is a legit reason for the Officer doing this.

Do you want us coming to your house when someone has broken in with our lights and sirens screaming? Of course not, that would scare away the bad guy.

Do you want us to not speed or run red lights when your girlfriend is attacked by some thug?

Of course you do. Because we are your friend when you want us and your worst nightmare when we catch you doing something wrong, right?

YOU should ALWAYS be let go. YOU should ALWAYS be the one who is NEVER written. YOU are ALWAYS the one with a legit excuse. YOU are ALWAYS the one that the "pigs" pick on, right?

Poor you...

I am not so blind as to think that Officers don't abuse thier position. But, as a supervisor in my Department, if I see an Officer do it, he is in for alot of heartache. And I have caught more than one.

But, I have also many times, responded with lights and siren, ran lights, sped, etc.. only to get half way there and be cancelled. So, off go the lights and back to normal I go.

Just because I turn everything off and then pull into a 7-11 doesn't mean I had my lights on to go get some coffee. Please! The risk of crashing alone is too great.

And I admit that it can look "funny" to the average citizen. But, instead of first thinking the Officer is wrong, why not think exactly what I just said? If it really bugs you, why not appoach the Officer and ask him/her in a polite manner. I have had more than one person approach me and I have NO PROBLEM explaining what happened. I really like the look on thier faces when they discover I have a LEGIT reason.

Look, you can think what ever you want to think. I am not even going to try and change your mind. You are allowed to think what you wish. You are allowed to voice what ever you want. Its your right.

Just remember, its a right protected by people like me.

dwight.j.carter
06-02-08, 04:02 PM
@ilikecru...your first post on this thread, man what a load of shyte. Man yall cops are the worse offenders out there. Ever heard the saying all cops are criminals, yall get away with the most wrong doing. In court is my word against yours and in most cases the judge sides with the cop, so its 2 to 1. and you know that.....only good cop is the one that has stopped breathing

that might be a little much but I will say there are some crooked ones out there.

ilikecru
06-02-08, 04:10 PM
Most cops are the duechebags that were picked on in high school just out for revenge !

OH MAN !!!

How did you know?

I thought the reason was going to stay a secret for a LONG time....

(Like I have never heard that one before) ....

dwight.j.carter
06-02-08, 04:19 PM
OOOHHH....OK....

If you already know the outcome, if you already know you are going to be found guilty, why did you come here looking for a different answer?

Oh, I know, because here you think someone will feel sorry for you.

NOT ME !!!

And I don't think you know me well enough to judge me. I have been nothing but respectful to you and yet you refuse to show me the same. No wonder you get yourself into trouble like this.

As for cops being the worst offenders- Yeah, sure, we speed, we run red lights, we don't always obey signs. But, usually, and I mean most of the time, there is a legit reason for the Officer doing this.

Do you want us coming to your house when someone has broken in with our lights and sirens screaming? Of course not, that would scare away the bad guy.

Do you want us to not speed or run red lights when your girlfriend is attacked by some thug?

Of course you do. Because we are your friend when you want us and your worst nightmare when we catch you doing something wrong, right?

YOU should ALWAYS be let go. YOU should ALWAYS be the one who is NEVER written. YOU are ALWAYS the one with a legit excuse. YOU are ALWAYS the one that the "pigs" pick on, right?

Poor you...

I am not so blind as to think that Officers don't abuse thier position. But, as a supervisor in my Department, if I see an Officer do it, he is in for alot of heartache. And I have caught more than one.

But, I have also many times, responded with lights and siren, ran lights, sped, etc.. only to get half way there and be cancelled. So, off go the lights and back to normal I go.

Just because I turn everything off and then pull into a 7-11 doesn't mean I had my lights on to go get some coffee. Please! The risk of crashing alone is too great.

And I admit that it can look "funny" to the average citizen. But, instead of first thinking the Officer is wrong, why not think exactly what I just said? If it really bugs you, why not appoach the Officer and ask him/her in a polite manner. I have had more than one person approach me and I have NO PROBLEM explaining what happened. I really like the look on thier faces when they discover I have a LEGIT reason.

Look, you can think what ever you want to think. I am not even going to try and change your mind. You are allowed to think what you wish. You are allowed to voice what ever you want. Its your right.

Just remember, its a right protected by people like me.

No because we still think we are in a democracy where you are innocent until proven guilty. The above just states the obvious that we are no longer in a democracy and we are guilty until proven innocent. I miss free America !

firstimecaddi
06-02-08, 04:21 PM
@ilikecru ....dude this is not my thread....I just responded to your post on the topic. And how could you say I was not respectful to you...just because we disagree...
...I going from my experience with cops....has been very shitty to say the least.....anyway I stated my position and that is what I'm sticking to.

That was not me crying and b*&#%ing about some ticket. I take my chances and speed, If I get stopped I pay up its dat simple for me.
I was gave my little rant because you really expect someone to believe all that mess you left up there.

dwight.j.carter
06-02-08, 04:28 PM
License and registration chicken phucker !

:D

(In my own defense that's from Supertroopers lol)

ilikecru
06-02-08, 04:37 PM
License and registration chicken phucker !

:D

(In my own defense that's from Supertroopers lol)


Side Note...

Did you know that it was Kevin Hefferman's parents that were in the car for that scene?

All they told them was that Kevin (Farva) was going to approach the vehicle and talk to them.

When he yelled that, that is a real response to what he said..

One of the many great lines in that movie....

ilikecru
06-02-08, 04:42 PM
@ilikecru ....dude this is not my thread....I just responded to your post on the topic. And how could you say I was not respectful to you...just because we disagree...
...I going from my experience with cops....has been very shitty to say the least.....anyway I stated my position and that is what I'm sticking to.

That was not me crying and b*&#%ing about some ticket. I take my chances and speed, If I get stopped I pay up its dat simple for me.
I was gave my little rant because you really expect someone to believe all that mess you left up there.

I'm sorry you have had bad experiences with Officers. I guess you haven't ever been stopped by me !!

But, honestly, was it a bad experience because you didn't like the outcome or was it a bad experience because the Officer did something to you against your rights?

If the latter is true, what did you do about it? Did you file a complaint with his/her department?

And saying that the only good cop is one not breathing is not a disagreement. Its a childish insult.

ilikecru
06-02-08, 05:02 PM
If you ask me the police department is a buisness just like every other buisness they are in it to make money. One example would be the fines they have gotten far out of hand. And if you ask me the police have become very dishonest and sneaky. I recently got a ticket by a cop driving a regular unmarked police car. In my opinion it was very sneaky and dishonest for him to not be in a squad car.


Make money for what?

If someone is getting a bonus, I want mine!!!

Sneaky? How is it sneaky? Just because we can't be identified right away it makes us sneaky?

Would you have committed the violation if you KNEW there was an Officer right there?

Sounds like you seem to think that its o.k. to commit the violation as long as you don't get caught..

THAT sounds a little dishonest to me...

dkozloski
06-02-08, 05:35 PM
Most cops are the duechebags that were picked on in high school just out for revenge !
The jerks that don't respect either the law or authority are the poor bastards that have no idea who their father is and were raised in a household with no authority figure.

How's that for a stereotype? It's as valid as yours.

dwight.j.carter
06-02-08, 06:55 PM
Make money for what?

If someone is getting a bonus, I want mine!!!

Sneaky? How is it sneaky? Just because we can't be identified right away it makes us sneaky?

Would you have committed the violation if you KNEW there was an Officer right there?

Sounds like you seem to think that its o.k. to commit the violation as long as you don't get caught..

THAT sounds a little dishonest to me...

Your not seeing a dime of the money being made. It is made by the state.

dwight.j.carter
06-02-08, 06:59 PM
When I get pulled over I generally try and give the officer the benefit of the doubt as I know he is just doing his job. I know you guys are just doing your job. I don't agree with the methodology for giving the tickets or the amount being charged. But I suppose with the growing cost of gas you have to fuel your vehicles somehow. Think of it like this if no one sped then our taxes would likely be alot higher to cover the costs.

ilikecru
06-02-08, 08:01 PM
You know, we could go on and on about who is right and who is wrong. And I don't really think anyone is going to change thier mind.

To carry this further would only upset the Mods. of this great site.

In basic terms it breaks down like this:

I was hired to do a job. A job that alot of other people out there could not take for a week. We deal and see horrible and unforgivible things all the time. Does it entitle me to anything special? Nope.

But, I do think it entitles me to a little slack now and then.

Most people have no idea what goes on in a typical shift much less what the "day-in-the-life-of-Officer-Friendly" is like.


We are trusted with a huge power. We have the right to take away your freedom. And I think it not only needs to respected by the citizens, but, by the Officers also.

I know that not everyone is a common criminal. I know that not everyone is a thug. I know that not every black man driving down the street in a nice car is a drug dealer.

But, everyday I am accused of one of the above.

And I have to listen to it, day in and day out. I must stay calm and professional no matter what is said or what is done.

I have had people threaten to rape my wife, kill my kids, run me over, spit on me, call me every name in the book, curse my Mother, and various other insults that you can think of.

And I stand there and take it. I remain calm and professional. Because thats what I was hired to do.

The truth is, I am not unlike anyone else in your town. I take my pants off just like you at night. I enjoy alot of the same things you enjoy (sports, spending time with my family), etc). I just have a highly misunderstood job.

Everyone thinks they know what I'm supposed to so. Everyone thinks they know how to do MY job. Everyone thinks they know what its like.

Sure, you pay my salary. Sure, you pay your taxes and contribute. But, so do I. I pay my salary also. I pay my taxes too. But, just because you do doesn't give YOU the right to tell ME what to do. No more than I have the right how to tell you to do your job.

Awhile ago I wrote these two things in another forum board. Some of it might be a bit duplicitius, but i'm sure you will get the point.

They were written in response to the quick judgement some displayed about the woman killed at the Phoenix Airport.


We all sit here and judge the Officers for what they did. We all sit here and tell the police how and when to do thier jobs. We all sit here and claim to "know" exactly what happened and how it happened. But, none, and I mean NONE of us were there.

Doctors kill thousands of people a year due to mistakes. Stupid, should have known better mistakes..Thousands.....Hear that...THOUSANDS !!

Yet, less than 200 die in police custody each year and the screaming and yelling and the protests just keep on coming. Where is the the protests about Doctors?

All of us sit here and forget just how hard the police have it. We forget that they, just like you and me are human too. That mistakes are going to be made sometimes and errors are going to occur.

Should every cop have to pay for the mistake of one?

How many people leave for a job every morning with the knowledge that:
a. I might have to KILL someone today
b. That I MIGHT BE KILLED TODAY !!
c. If A happens, I WILL BE SUED NO MATTER WHAT!!

Nope, we all go off to our A/C or heated offices and work at our little desks spreading office gossip through comapny e-mails. The biggest threats you have to deal with is getting caught mis-using the internet on company time.

Yet, we stand and judge. Most of us here have never, ever had to deal with and see the things most Officers do.

How many people scream at you on a daily basis on your job? "Everyone else should get the ticket, not me!"

How many people have been involved in fist-fights on thier job? "YOUR NOT TAKING ME TO JAIL !!"

How many people have had to search dead bodies on thier job?

How many people have had to watch a 10 year old kid get cut out of car after being killed by a drunk driver? On his way home from a drive-in movie? Celebrating his Father's return from Iraq after being gone for a year?....Remembering that you have a son just a little younger at home?...... Safe in bed?

Yet....we judge....

Most the police in this county are hard working, law abiding, Officers. They don't wake up everyday hoping to kill someone. IN fact, most will tell you just the opposite, they live in fear of HAVING to..

People forget that they don't have alot of things afforded to them that you and I take for granted..

Suppose for a second there is some crazy person in your home when you get off work. He's in your house, smashing things and acting crazy. And he won't leave.

What do you do? You run outside to a safe place and you call the police, thats what you do.

And they come, just like always.

Now, they don't have the beneifit of "hiding" behind a tree or waiting until its safe at a friends house. Nope! THEY have to go in and GET HIM !!

And, oh dear God. Pray they do it exactly right. Pray that they don't do "it" exactly as some "citizen" thinks it should be done.

Next thing you know, the Officer has his name splashed across the front page of every newspaper with the headlines, "POLICE KILL MAN IN HOME FOR NO REASON".

And if the Officer is white and the "bad guy" is black? The Officer is automaticly "branded" a racist and killed him because he was black..

And the department won't even let him respond to the lies told by the media!

Yet we judge...

You ever stop to think, who would take the job they have for the money they make? Not you?

Where else do you get to spend working 10 hours a day inside a car all day? Cramped to the "gills" with a computer, radios, RADAR, etc...?

Where else do you get to work in all sorts of cold, unbearable heat, or pouring down rain? Sometimes in the same shift!

Where else do you have the theat of getting run-over, shot, maimed or sued everytime you make contact with someone?

Where else do you get to work rotating shifts, work holidays, get call backs at 2 am, and have to leave your kids birthday party because some "knockle-head" commited a crime?

Where else would you do it all for about $45,000.00 a year?

Yet...we judge....

I'm sorry that this woman lost her life. I'm sorry for her family and her friends.

But, I am also sorry for the officers involved. They now have a long road ahead of them that with put every move they have made under a microscope. And they don't have the benefit of hindsight.

Its a shame that so many people here have already made up thier minds. That all the facts are yet to be revealed and already the mobs are screaming "cover-up", excessive force, "get a lawyer", and "fire the officers and throw them in jail!".

Yes ...we sit and judge.....We judge from the safety of our little worlds we have tricked ourselves into believeing exist..

No one ever goes out on a limb..No one ever gives the Officers the benefit just once...No one ever goes against the tide of society and sticks up for the officers..thinking, maybe there is more to this?

Nope, we sit and judge ... Because maybe its just easier to keep out heads in the sand.....





Every cop have the "power" over someone of life and death.

Any person with a gun has the power over another of life and death.

We entrust these Officers with that power so that they protect those who can't protect themselves. We train and train and train them. We hope that they always act reasonable. Most do.

Is the answer to take the gun from the police?

Yup, throw the baby out with the bathwater!

I will admit there are bad cops. And thier always will be. Just like there are "bad" people in every profession.

But, just because there are a few bad doctors, or a few bad priests, or a few bad cops, doesn't mean that evey doctor, priest or cop is bad.

In fact, the number of bad doctors, priests and cops are far, far less than the number of honest hardworking ones.

And the good ones hate the bad ones. The good ones will help get rid of the bad ones. Because it reflects bad on the good ones. Because everyone will think that all the good ones are bad too.

All we hear about though is the bad. All we see in the papers is the one who make the good ones look bad.

When was the last time a cop saving a woman from getting killed by her crazy husband made the front page?

It will if he kills him.

Then, the wife and his family will be on TV saying. "Yeah, he had some problems, but, he was trying to get his life back together" or "Sure, he was violent before, but I don't believe he would have REALLY tried to kill an officer" or "Why not shoot him in the leg?"

Nope, we never hear about the good everyday things that a cop does.

Save a kid from a bad car wreck? Page 6

Save a family from a burning house? Page 7

Help a parent find a lost 6 year old? Page 9

Arrest a drunk driver who could have killed you and your family that night? ...No where....Unless its some big shot or something....

Shoot and kill someone who tries to stab you? Taze a drunk and combative wife beater who is so far gone on a cocaine overdose that he would had died anyway and he dies? Smack a drug dealer once too many times with your nightstick while he trying to take your gun?

Front page....Front page....And Front page....

For days....

We all want to tell others what and how to do something. We all think we know whats it like to do someone elses job.

We all think that the bad actions of the few reflect on the entire profession.

Keep buying into it... Its easier to critize than it is to investigate.

Its easier to pretend to know then to actually seek the knowledge.

Its easier to judge then to pull your head out of the sand to see what is REALLY going on.

Hest, we might actually change our minds about things. We might actually "see the light" from a different angle. We might get sunburned from the pale skin on our face due to being in the sand so long.

And the biggest fear of all?

We might actually really enjoy the "light" and find out that we were wrong about something!



Again, I don't want anything special from anyone because of what I do. I just want the respect and honesty that most people expect when they are doing thier job. I took this job knowing all the above. I want to be talked to like a human, not screamed at, called names, or have people take swings at me.

I treat everyone I come in contact with respectfully and professionally. No matter what they say or do. I don't take anything personal and if they give me respect, I, in turn will do the same.

Act like an adult, you are treated like one. Act like a child and you are treated like one.

All I'm asking for is the beneifit of the doubt sometimes. Open your eyes a little and look at it from out side. Imangine for a minute that what you see and what I see might be totally different. Sure, it might look funny, sure it might not seem right, sure, maybe you WEREN'T speeding. But, the truth is, only YOU really know the truth.

We can hide from alot of things in life, but, we can NEVER EVER hide from that reflection we see in the mirror.

Sorry for the rant. I just wish sometimes people would open thier eyes a little and look around every once in a while..

dwight.j.carter
06-02-08, 08:07 PM
My buddy is a cop and he got suspended fairly recently for punching a guy in the face. I don't remember the circumstances but he did lose his cool. If you are able to keep cool in those conditions I commend you. I also think there is alot of bad going on out there and speeding tickets should be pretty low priority with the evil in the world today.

dwight.j.carter
06-02-08, 08:09 PM
This government in my opinion has become far to powerful and deomocracy is now only an ilusion.

z06bigbird
06-02-08, 08:16 PM
UGGHHH.....

Here we go!!!!!!

I am asked all the time, "what can I do to get out of a speeding ticket?".

I always have the same answer. I tell them this:

There is a little known secret that if used, it works EVERYTIME. Evey Officer I know, when this "secret" is used, will ALWAYS, I mean ALWAYS, let you go. It has a 100% proven rate of sucess. If someone uses it on me, off they go.

So what is it?

Easy..............OBEY THE SPEED LIMIT..............

Yup. Its that easy.

I seriously doubt that you were not speeding. I doubt that he wrote you a ticket that you didn't deserve. And just how did I come to this?

Several reasons:

1. Officers are highly trained and then retrained at least once every two years on RADAR and LiDAR. Most of the training involves visually estimating speeds of vehicles and THEN observing what the device reads. We are trained to pick out fast cars and taught that if you can't tell which car it is, you don't stop any of them.
I think you are under the impression that modern RADAR can only pick out one vehicle at a time. Newer RADAR ( like the Stalker DUAL SL) that I use can pick out two vehicles (like a tractor trailer and a Honda) at the same time and I get a speed reading on both.
LiDAR is even better. I can "pick-off" a vehicle third in line from 3,000 feet away. All I do is aim, and pull the trigger. The "beam" is so narrow that it CAN'T be anyone but you.

2. Maybe you think he "got you" when you saw him. Again, how mant times have I had to tell people, "Nope, I got you WAYYYY back there!, not up here when you saw me!" Maybe you weren't able to see him, but, I bet he saw you long before you knew he was there.

3. Why would the "pig" (btw, I LOVE that term, PRIDE, INTEGERTY, GUTS, thats ME!) put his entire life on the line to screw up YOUR driving record. You see, we have to swear, under perjury, that everything in that ticket is true and correct to the best of out knowledge.
That means, if we lie, not only can you sue us, but, WE CAN GO TO FEDERAL PRISION. Yup, thats right, we can go to jail.
Why wouldn't he just wait for the next person who is SPEEDING to come by and ticket him?
If you think it has to do with your age, well, go stand on the side of a highway and tell me how old people are as they approach you at 70 mph. I can't tell if your a man, a woman, or a dog driving a car at that speed, much less tell you how old I think you are. Kinda throws out that whole " You just stopped me because (insert stupid reason here, eg. cause I'm drving a nice car, cause I'm a good looking young female, cause whatever, etc...)

Just to clear up a few things, we don't have quotas. We don't get a bonus just because we write so many tickets. We don't get any more pay or any "perks" if we write tickets versus warnings.

Out jobs DO NOT depend on tickets. This is a small portion of what most Officers do.

We don't get any of the money, it doesn't benefit us in any way (unless you count that most of it goes to road maintanice across the State) and our Commanders could care less if we write 50 tickets or 50 warnings.

The fact is, your young, and just by your attitude displayed here alone, I probabaly would have wrote you too. You seem to accept no possiblity that maybe, just MAYBE, you were speeding, and maybe, just MAYBE, you deserved the ticket. No, you resort to name-calling and bad-mouthing. You come here and look for a way to "get rid of it".

That my friend, is being immature. And that makes you an accident waiting to happen. The perosn you kill speeding could be a friend of mine, or a co-worker, or.....maybe someone in my family.

And what gives YOU that right?

I'm sorry, if you don't like what I have to say. If, by some chance, and I will admit that there can be, that you WERE NOT speeding, then, go to court. Pled your case and use your right to make the Officer PROVE you were speeding.

Maybe the Judge will believe you. Maybe not.

But, I don't think this is your FIRST ticket either or you wouldn't be so desperate to "get out of it".

People ask me all the time when I am handing them a ticket, "you must really enjoy doing this don't you?". I usually just smile and say nothing. But, the truth is, do I enjoy slowing people down? Do I enjoy maybe saving someone's life? Do I enjoy making the roads safer for law-abiding travelers?

YOU BET I DO....

And its a shame that YOU have to be fined to understand that.

I'm sorry you got caught. But, play the game enough, and you are bound to lose every once in a while.

That being all said, flame on my friend !!

Everybody blames someone else for their indiscretions--a la Bill Clinton. No one is guilty. Strange world!!

dkozloski
06-02-08, 08:30 PM
My buddy is a cop and he got suspended fairly recently for punching a guy in the face. I don't remember the circumstances but he did lose his cool. If you are able to keep cool in those conditions I commend you. I also think there is alot of bad going on out there and speeding tickets should be pretty low priority with the evil in the world today.
You're going to have a different opinion when somebody near and dear to you gets wiped out by some idiot 30MPH over the limit that can't hold his car on his side of the road. It's going to happen. I promise you.

dkozloski
06-02-08, 08:33 PM
This government in my opinion has become far to powerful and deomocracy is now only an ilusion.
We don't live in a democracry, we live in a republic. We elect people to do our law making for us and they have decided long ago that speeding is dumb. Most sensible people agree.

dwight.j.carter
06-02-08, 08:38 PM
However people are not going to stop speeding that way. Perhaps what should be done is if someone gets injured as a result of speeding they should be put in jail rather than fine the people that keep control of there cars. I likecru let me just ask you a question. How many times are you driving in your sls and don't realize how fast you are going ? I will say it happens to me frequently because of how nice my car rides. And I can't sit there and stare at my speedo because that would cause me to get into an accident. So with that being said I don't get many tickets because I do have a good sense of safe driving and I normally don't speed. However when I do get a ticket I usually pay it because I know cops don't care to hear excuses so I usually just let them put it in my tailpipe and pay the ticket.

ilikecru
06-02-08, 09:04 PM
However people are not going to stop speeding that way. Perhaps what should be done is if someone gets injured as a result of speeding they should be put in jail rather than fine the people that keep control of there cars. I likecru let me just ask you a question. How many times are you driving in your sls and don't realize how fast you are going ? I will say it happens to me frequently because of how nice my car rides. And I can't sit there and stare at my speedo because that would cause me to get into an accident. So with that being said I don't get many tickets because I do have a good sense of safe driving and I normally don't speed. However when I do get a ticket I usually pay it because I know cops don't care to hear excuses so I usually just let them put it in my tailpipe and pay the ticket.

How many times? I don't know if I can count that high??

It has happened not only in my SLS but, in my Cruiser...:yup:

We all do it... Lose track of our speed. Stop paying attention and start to climb up. I am guilty of that myself.

In fact, I just got a speeding ticket not three years ago.

Yup, by a department that borders ours. And did the Officer know I was a Police Officer?

I hope so, not because I told him, but, the uniform I was wearing should have given it away.... (so much for the "Cops always give other cops breaks" thing).

Did I get disrecpectful? Nope.

Did I get rude? Nope

Did I tell him he was wrong? Nope.

I was nothing but a great guy to him. And.....I still got the ticket.....

I know that the side of road is NOT the place for debate. So, we talked about anther Officer I knew who worked with him. He told me he was sorry he "had" to give me the ticket and I told him, "Your just doing your job. I understand".

No arguement. No yellling, "you COULD HAVE GIVEN ME A WARNING!"

Everyone gets speeding tickets. Everyone speeds. Everyone gets stopped at least once for something.

How the stop goes in entirley up the the person stopped. I'll listen to you. I'll take into account what you have to say. If I think its legit, maybe you will get a warning. If I think your being honest and just stopping you has "woken you up". Then I have no problem writing a warning.

But, say something stupid like:

I'm not from around here...great..Your speeding on roads you are unfimilar with..

I wasn't going THAT fast... OK...so. I'm a liar now? ..Let me write this down for you to study later..sign here...

I didn't know I was going over.... Maybe..Maybe not...

I never speed......and I look at your record and you have had 4 tickets for speed in the last 5 years... (to which she responded, "I thought you could only see my 3 year record")...WRONG.....

Lie, cheat or try and deceive me and I'll drop every charge I can on you.

Be honest, up front, tell me the truth, and 9 times out 10 I'll cut you some slack where I can.

BTW, some of the worst people in the U.S were caught as a result of a traffic violation..

Timothy McVeigh.....Expired tag....

Son of Sam...Parking Violations...

One of the 9/11 terriosts were stopped two weeks before the attack for speeding by a Maryland State Trooper.

Some of the best arrests I have ever had have come as a result of a very minor traffic violation.

If they don't obey the BIG laws, they won't obey the small ones....

And thats a big way we catch alot of them....

dwight.j.carter
06-02-08, 09:14 PM
I can agree with that. That's why I don't fight the tickets because I know at some point I am going to get one. I usually get one a year. One of my favorite shows on tv is cops and what gets me is I can tell every time someone gets pulled over on that show that they are up to no good.

dkozloski
06-02-08, 10:11 PM
Everybody the cops have to deal with on that program is drunk, stupid, or both.

Ranger
06-02-08, 10:48 PM
Lets face it. Those are the only ones they show. An average traffic stop is not worth watching.

kdsevillle
06-02-08, 11:18 PM
hey firstimecaddi...

So I'm crying about a speeding ticket huh? I'm fighting this cause I WASNT F@*&ING SPEEDING!!!!!! A chevy equinox flew by me and cut me off. The cop said he clocked me at 76. Besides, I was at a stop light going up hill. I now the Caddy is fast, but It's to damn heavy to reach 76mph uphill in less than 10 secs.

Necrosan
06-02-08, 11:45 PM
Stop speeding.

dwight.j.carter
06-03-08, 02:02 AM
hey firstimecaddi...

So I'm crying about a speeding ticket huh? I'm fighting this cause I WASNT F@*&ING SPEEDING!!!!!! A chevy equinox flew by me and cut me off. The cop said he clocked me at 76. Besides, I was at a stop light going up hill. I now the Caddy is fast, but It's to damn heavy to reach 76mph uphill in less than 10 secs.

speak for yourself mine would. :thumbsup:

Krashed989
06-03-08, 04:12 AM
Wow, this thread went off on an interesting tangent since the last time I saw it.

Ilikecru,
I commend you. I would never be able to handle a day in your shoes. Although, there was a day when I did want to become a cop a long time ago, when I was a kid. It was the realization that I could die as one that turned me away from it. I'm sure the bad guys dont shoot much nerf darts in your direction like how I played as a kid.

sint3k
06-03-08, 05:12 AM
And nope, we don't have "goals" or quotas or anything similar. Do we have to justify what we have done all day? Sure. Just like every other working person.

But, if I walk in with three accident reports and no traffic enforcement, that is all the same to my Commanders. If I walk in with 30 warnings for seat-belts at the end of the day, and not 1 speed violation, they don't care. Call it what you want, but, Commanders (like other bosses) don't want you just "playing" around all day and not getting anything done. They don't care what you are doing, as long as your doing your job!!


And LiDAR jammers don't work. The unit measures your speed in under a 1/4 of a second. The "jammers" don't have enough time to find the light signal, authenicate the source, respond back to the LiDAR unit with a much more powerful light beam, etc...

By the time that all happens, I have got you !!

LiDAR uses a time-distance formula for speed measurements. Not real easy for most people to build something that can "jam" the unit.

Good try though......

Try just doing the SPEED LIMIT....

Last, why would I stoop to insults? If, by chance, you do come back and read this, I only ask that you do a little research on vehicle crash causation. You will discover that a LARGE number of fatal crashes can be DIRECTLY attributed to speed. Speed plays a major factor in DUI related fatal crashes.

Many a person would have survived if they were going slower (i.e. the speed limit).

Tell your brother thank you for his service and STAY SAFE !!



Jammers do work and they dont work by looking for your laser signal They are constantly outputting a laser in a 180 degree area in front of the car instantly being intercepted by the receiver causing chaotic reactions on the readout. I don't think you've actually ran into a working jammer because they are difficult to get in the united states.

Yea you stay safe too i know your work is real and you do alot for your city i personally don't have a problem with speeding tickets i just "IMO" don't think speeding results in accidents. Defiantly not 10mph over the limit. Some one doing 150 in a 70 yes but how often do you see a cop cetching the guy in the viper doing 150 down a highway anyways ?

krimson_cardnal
06-03-08, 09:25 AM
Other than the premise that one or two of our juvenile, illiterate posters owns some sort of Cadillac, what does this thread have to do with Eldorado/Seville repair and operation ???

:yeah: Stop this dribble by putting it in the Lounge. Way off the point of this forum. K_C

ilikecru
06-03-08, 10:50 AM
Jammers do work and they dont work by looking for your laser signal They are constantly outputting a laser in a 180 degree area in front of the car instantly being intercepted by the receiver causing chaotic reactions on the readout. I don't think you've actually ran into a working jammer because they are difficult to get in the united states.

Yea you stay safe too i know your work is real and you do alot for your city i personally don't have a problem with speeding tickets i just "IMO" don't think speeding results in accidents. Defiantly not 10mph over the limit. Some one doing 150 in a 70 yes but how often do you see a cop cetching the guy in the viper doing 150 down a highway anyways ?

Nope. Never have run across one. I used to hear tales on one that you could "dial" in your speed and the unit would display whatever you wanted.

If I did come across one, I would probably know something wasn't right based on my visual observation alone. I mean, if I see the guy is WAY above the limit and the unit is reading the limit, thats probable cause to stop the vehicle right there. And I am going to search for it.

The fines and jail time I understand are HUGE. And thats just on the State level. Wait until the Feds. get involved. It will be 10 times worse.

I don't stop for 10 over. I give people a little "wiggle" room. Sometimes I do, if I think something is up with the vehicle (drugs,guns, owner has a warrant). Heck, I have stopped for 5 over in those situations.

We have laptops in the cars now that read plates like a mad-man. It automatically runs the first listed owner and check the vehicle and the owner for Wants and Warrants. It also checks to make sure thier license is valid.

Problem is, if the owner does come back with a warrant, that is not P.C. to stop the vehicle. You can't assume the owner is operating the vehicle. So, you look for something small, something hanging around the rearview (windshield obstruction), seat-belt, marker light out, 2 over the speed limit.

If its not them, off they go. No ticket. Just a friendly reminder to correct something. If it is them, well.....you know what happens...

A little FYI, fastest I ever caught was a motorcycle. 148 in a 55... And he was doing a wheelie as he went by me at that speed. Of course, he sped up when he saw me.

Judge found him NOT GUILTY of fleeing because he said there is no way the motorcycle operator could have known I was trying to stop him at that speed.

Of course, thats "hourse-hockey" because the operator saw me, looked right at me as he went by me on one wheel at 148, and knew I was going to come after him. I guess the Judge thought I was just going to stay on the shoulder and watch him go...

He spent a few nights in jail though waiting for bail. Sometimes thier is a little Justice.

Florian
06-03-08, 10:56 AM
and you know that.....only good cop is the one that has stopped breathing

thats weak. :thepan: :helpless:


excellent post

even weaker, oh and nice creativity. :thepan: :thepan:


Most cops are the duechebags that were picked on in high school just out for revenge !

maybe thats the case, maybe not. Who are we to judge? (BTW its douchebag)


F

ilikecru
06-03-08, 10:57 AM
hey firstimecaddi...

So I'm crying about a speeding ticket huh? I'm fighting this cause I WASNT F@*&ING SPEEDING!!!!!! A chevy equinox flew by me and cut me off. The cop said he clocked me at 76. Besides, I was at a stop light going up hill. I now the Caddy is fast, but It's to damn heavy to reach 76mph uphill in less than 10 secs.

Yes, you are crying.

And if your Caddy can't do 76 in 10 sec. something is wrong with your vehicle, my man.

If your not guilty, GO TO COURT...Its your right, USE IT !!!

Don't come to here and whine about it hoping to find a way out. Most of the people on this board are mature adults who give GREAT information about Caddy's. They aren't here to help a lead-footed 17 year old trying to beat what he has coming to him.

Interesting that you didn't answer my question about if this is your first speeding ticket....

Well, is it?

Florian
06-03-08, 10:58 AM
BTW, Lidar jammers DO work....see here: guysoflidar.com

they work VERY well, but, you gotta pay to play.


F

93DevilleUSMC
06-03-08, 11:04 AM
Was driving to the beach over a hill doing the speed limit and then this chevy SUV flew past and cut me off. A couple cops pull both of us over and the Pig said I was doing 76!!! I said no, the SUV that cut me off was doing 76, I was doing not even 50 MPH.

He gives the SUV a ticket and me a ticket. I was going to be 311 bucks but he wrote it for 86 plus 2 points on my license! Thats B.S.!!!!

Is there any way I can fight this crap in court?????

Thanks all!!!!!!


If you ask me the police department is a buisness just like every other buisness they are in it to make money. One example would be the fines they have gotten far out of hand. And if you ask me the police have become very dishonest and sneaky. I recently got a ticket by a cop driving a regular unmarked police car. In my opinion it was very sneaky and dishonest for him to not be in a squad car.


@ilikecru...your first post on this thread, man what a load of shyte. Man yall cops are the worse offenders out there. Ever heard the saying all cops are criminals, yall get away with the most wrong doing. In court is my word against yours and in most cases the judge sides with the cop, so its 2 to 1. and you know that.....only good cop is the one that has stopped breathing


When I get pulled over I generally try and give the officer the benefit of the doubt as I know he is just doing his job. I know you guys are just doing your job. I don't agree with the methodology for giving the tickets or the amount being charged. But I suppose with the growing cost of gas you have to fuel your vehicles somehow. Think of it like this if no one sped then our taxes would likely be alot higher to cover the costs.


This government in my opinion has become far to powerful and deomocracy is now only an ilusion.


hey firstimecaddi...

So I'm crying about a speeding ticket huh? I'm fighting this cause I WASNT F@*&ING SPEEDING!!!!!! A chevy equinox flew by me and cut me off. The cop said he clocked me at 76. Besides, I was at a stop light going up hill. I now the Caddy is fast, but It's to damn heavy to reach 76mph uphill in less than 10 secs.

Hey, here is an idea: read this slowly, and re-read this: Stop. Speeding! In case you didn't catch it the first time, STOP SPEEDING!

The officers didn't force you to speed, you chose to speed. No one forced you to disobey traffic signs; you deliberately ignored them.

Kdseville, you are pretty much nothing but a young, irresponsible punk. You truly expect us to believe that highly advanced police radar which can track two vehicles was wrong in tracking your obsolete Northstar Seville? I love how guys like you drive an old, slushy front-wheel drive and think that you have a genuinely powerful vehicle just because it is a V-8, and that eight cylinders somehow entitle you to drive like a completely irresponsible jackass and endanger everyone else on the road for the sole purpose of feeding your little inferiority complex. I strongly suggest that you join the United States Marine Corps so that several Drill Instructors may beat this childish, selfish "me-ism" clear out of your myopic little soul.

Firsttimecaddi, I would love to see you tell a police officer to his face that he deserves to die. Nope, that would require courage; continue to hide behind your keyboard.

Dwight.J.carter, the Constitution was written to protect real and legitimate freedoms, like free speech, property ownership, due process, right to legal counsel, and many more. It was not enacted to protect the right co-dependent and irresponsible in our society to drive at any speed in which they wish without regard to whom they endanger.

ilikecru
06-03-08, 11:08 AM
BTW, Lidar jammers DO work....see here: guysoflidar.com

they work VERY well.


F

Great site...thanks for the link...

But, on the Tech page it shows how different LiDAR units give off different pulse rates.

How will you know which pulse rate to use if you don't know what unit I am using?

I believe ( at least we are told) that the machine will ignore any other light source but the emitted at the pulse rate our gives out...

Looking at thier information on the page, the vehicle would have to emit 6 different pulse rates at the same time, at the same wavelength. Wouldn't they cross over each other and completely defeat the purpose?

If they did, then I guess the LiDAR would just read 0. And again, I go back to my orginal statement, if you are WAY above the limit, and I can't get a reading on you, and I can on everyone else, and the unit has been functioning properly all day, your getting stopped and searched by me.

Thats P.C. enough for me...

dwight.j.carter
06-03-08, 11:35 AM
My car is no slush box and at least it doesn't look exactly the same as every other caddy on the road today. At least the seville had it's own distinction now you can't tell if your looking at a CTS or STS unless your within five feet of the car.

93DevilleUSMC
06-03-08, 11:38 AM
You know, we could go on and on about who is right and who is wrong. And I don't really think anyone is going to change thier mind.

To carry this further would only upset the Mods. of this great site.

In basic terms it breaks down like this:

I was hired to do a job. A job that alot of other people out there could not take for a week. We deal and see horrible and unforgivible things all the time. Does it entitle me to anything special? Nope.

But, I do think it entitles me to a little slack now and then.

Most people have no idea what goes on in a typical shift much less what the "day-in-the-life-of-Officer-Friendly" is like.


We are trusted with a huge power. We have the right to take away your freedom. And I think it not only needs to respected by the citizens, but, by the Officers also.

I know that not everyone is a common criminal. I know that not everyone is a thug. I know that not every black man driving down the street in a nice car is a drug dealer.

But, everyday I am accused of one of the above.

And I have to listen to it, day in and day out. I must stay calm and professional no matter what is said or what is done.

I have had people threaten to rape my wife, kill my kids, run me over, spit on me, call me every name in the book, curse my Mother, and various other insults that you can think of.

And I stand there and take it. I remain calm and professional. Because thats what I was hired to do.

The truth is, I am not unlike anyone else in your town. I take my pants off just like you at night. I enjoy alot of the same things you enjoy (sports, spending time with my family), etc). I just have a highly misunderstood job.

Everyone thinks they know what I'm supposed to so. Everyone thinks they know how to do MY job. Everyone thinks they know what its like.

Sure, you pay my salary. Sure, you pay your taxes and contribute. But, so do I. I pay my salary also. I pay my taxes too. But, just because you do doesn't give YOU the right to tell ME what to do. No more than I have the right how to tell you to do your job.

Awhile ago I wrote these two things in another forum board. Some of it might be a bit duplicitius, but i'm sure you will get the point.

They were written in response to the quick judgement some displayed about the woman killed at the Phoenix Airport.


We all sit here and judge the Officers for what they did. We all sit here and tell the police how and when to do thier jobs. We all sit here and claim to "know" exactly what happened and how it happened. But, none, and I mean NONE of us were there.

Doctors kill thousands of people a year due to mistakes. Stupid, should have known better mistakes..Thousands.....Hear that...THOUSANDS !!

Yet, less than 200 die in police custody each year and the screaming and yelling and the protests just keep on coming. Where is the the protests about Doctors?

All of us sit here and forget just how hard the police have it. We forget that they, just like you and me are human too. That mistakes are going to be made sometimes and errors are going to occur.

Should every cop have to pay for the mistake of one?

How many people leave for a job every morning with the knowledge that:
a. I might have to KILL someone today
b. That I MIGHT BE KILLED TODAY !!
c. If A happens, I WILL BE SUED NO MATTER WHAT!!

Nope, we all go off to our A/C or heated offices and work at our little desks spreading office gossip through comapny e-mails. The biggest threats you have to deal with is getting caught mis-using the internet on company time.

Yet, we stand and judge. Most of us here have never, ever had to deal with and see the things most Officers do.

How many people scream at you on a daily basis on your job? "Everyone else should get the ticket, not me!"

How many people have been involved in fist-fights on thier job? "YOUR NOT TAKING ME TO JAIL !!"

How many people have had to search dead bodies on thier job?

How many people have had to watch a 10 year old kid get cut out of car after being killed by a drunk driver? On his way home from a drive-in movie? Celebrating his Father's return from Iraq after being gone for a year?....Remembering that you have a son just a little younger at home?...... Safe in bed?

Yet....we judge....

Most the police in this county are hard working, law abiding, Officers. They don't wake up everyday hoping to kill someone. IN fact, most will tell you just the opposite, they live in fear of HAVING to..

People forget that they don't have alot of things afforded to them that you and I take for granted..

Suppose for a second there is some crazy person in your home when you get off work. He's in your house, smashing things and acting crazy. And he won't leave.

What do you do? You run outside to a safe place and you call the police, thats what you do.

And they come, just like always.

Now, they don't have the beneifit of "hiding" behind a tree or waiting until its safe at a friends house. Nope! THEY have to go in and GET HIM !!

And, oh dear God. Pray they do it exactly right. Pray that they don't do "it" exactly as some "citizen" thinks it should be done.

Next thing you know, the Officer has his name splashed across the front page of every newspaper with the headlines, "POLICE KILL MAN IN HOME FOR NO REASON".

And if the Officer is white and the "bad guy" is black? The Officer is automaticly "branded" a racist and killed him because he was black..

And the department won't even let him respond to the lies told by the media!

Yet we judge...

You ever stop to think, who would take the job they have for the money they make? Not you?

Where else do you get to spend working 10 hours a day inside a car all day? Cramped to the "gills" with a computer, radios, RADAR, etc...?

Where else do you get to work in all sorts of cold, unbearable heat, or pouring down rain? Sometimes in the same shift!

Where else do you have the theat of getting run-over, shot, maimed or sued everytime you make contact with someone?

Where else do you get to work rotating shifts, work holidays, get call backs at 2 am, and have to leave your kids birthday party because some "knockle-head" commited a crime?

Where else would you do it all for about $45,000.00 a year?

Yet...we judge....

I'm sorry that this woman lost her life. I'm sorry for her family and her friends.

But, I am also sorry for the officers involved. They now have a long road ahead of them that with put every move they have made under a microscope. And they don't have the benefit of hindsight.

Its a shame that so many people here have already made up thier minds. That all the facts are yet to be revealed and already the mobs are screaming "cover-up", excessive force, "get a lawyer", and "fire the officers and throw them in jail!".

Yes ...we sit and judge.....We judge from the safety of our little worlds we have tricked ourselves into believeing exist..

No one ever goes out on a limb..No one ever gives the Officers the benefit just once...No one ever goes against the tide of society and sticks up for the officers..thinking, maybe there is more to this?

Nope, we sit and judge ... Because maybe its just easier to keep out heads in the sand.....





Every cop have the "power" over someone of life and death.

Any person with a gun has the power over another of life and death.

We entrust these Officers with that power so that they protect those who can't protect themselves. We train and train and train them. We hope that they always act reasonable. Most do.

Is the answer to take the gun from the police?

Yup, throw the baby out with the bathwater!

I will admit there are bad cops. And thier always will be. Just like there are "bad" people in every profession.

But, just because there are a few bad doctors, or a few bad priests, or a few bad cops, doesn't mean that evey doctor, priest or cop is bad.

In fact, the number of bad doctors, priests and cops are far, far less than the number of honest hardworking ones.

And the good ones hate the bad ones. The good ones will help get rid of the bad ones. Because it reflects bad on the good ones. Because everyone will think that all the good ones are bad too.

All we hear about though is the bad. All we see in the papers is the one who make the good ones look bad.

When was the last time a cop saving a woman from getting killed by her crazy husband made the front page?

It will if he kills him.

Then, the wife and his family will be on TV saying. "Yeah, he had some problems, but, he was trying to get his life back together" or "Sure, he was violent before, but I don't believe he would have REALLY tried to kill an officer" or "Why not shoot him in the leg?"

Nope, we never hear about the good everyday things that a cop does.

Save a kid from a bad car wreck? Page 6

Save a family from a burning house? Page 7

Help a parent find a lost 6 year old? Page 9

Arrest a drunk driver who could have killed you and your family that night? ...No where....Unless its some big shot or something....

Shoot and kill someone who tries to stab you? Taze a drunk and combative wife beater who is so far gone on a cocaine overdose that he would had died anyway and he dies? Smack a drug dealer once too many times with your nightstick while he trying to take your gun?

Front page....Front page....And Front page....

For days....

We all want to tell others what and how to do something. We all think we know whats it like to do someone elses job.

We all think that the bad actions of the few reflect on the entire profession.

Keep buying into it... Its easier to critize than it is to investigate.

Its easier to pretend to know then to actually seek the knowledge.

Its easier to judge then to pull your head out of the sand to see what is REALLY going on.

Hest, we might actually change our minds about things. We might actually "see the light" from a different angle. We might get sunburned from the pale skin on our face due to being in the sand so long.

And the biggest fear of all?

We might actually really enjoy the "light" and find out that we were wrong about something!



Again, I don't want anything special from anyone because of what I do. I just want the respect and honesty that most people expect when they are doing thier job. I took this job knowing all the above. I want to be talked to like a human, not screamed at, called names, or have people take swings at me.

I treat everyone I come in contact with respectfully and professionally. No matter what they say or do. I don't take anything personal and if they give me respect, I, in turn will do the same.

Act like an adult, you are treated like one. Act like a child and you are treated like one.

All I'm asking for is the beneifit of the doubt sometimes. Open your eyes a little and look at it from out side. Imangine for a minute that what you see and what I see might be totally different. Sure, it might look funny, sure it might not seem right, sure, maybe you WEREN'T speeding. But, the truth is, only YOU really know the truth.

We can hide from alot of things in life, but, we can NEVER EVER hide from that reflection we see in the mirror.

Sorry for the rant. I just wish sometimes people would open thier eyes a little and look around every once in a while..

Thank you for everything that you do, brother. For every narrow-minded individual who hates you, there are five us who would rather be you. As a security guard, I have been helped out several times by both Atlanta and Georgia State University PD officers. Any shooting that happens in Atlanta will be statewide, if not national, news, but APD's fast response to the downtown Atlanta tornado a few months ago has been and will remain largely overlooked by the media, but myself and a few others haven't forgotten.

Be safe on your next shift.

93DevilleUSMC
06-03-08, 11:40 AM
My car is no slush box and at least it doesn't look exactly the same as every other caddy on the road today. At least the seville had it's own distinction now you can't tell if your looking at a CTS or STS unless your within five feet of the car.

Wow, so now you're entitled to speed because your car is now distinctive? How exciting! How amazing!

How totally irrelevant.

urbanski
06-03-08, 11:41 AM
Hey, retards,

Flame on, little children, flame on.

dont report posts while calling people retards and inviting them to flame you.

93DevilleUSMC
06-03-08, 11:42 AM
dont report posts while calling people retards and inviting them to flame you.

I stand corrected.

93DevilleUSMC
06-03-08, 11:48 AM
Post edited per warning.

dwight.j.carter
06-03-08, 11:51 AM
If you read my previous posts I normally don't speed. And when I do it's because I am not paying attention to how fast I am going. My car rides pretty smooth and I often don't notice how fast I am going. I am 28 years old I have been where that 17 year old kid is and I can say I normally don't speed. I usually average a ticket every year or two.

93DevilleUSMC
06-03-08, 11:53 AM
If you read my previous posts I normally don't speed. And when I do it's because I am not paying attention to how fast I am going. My car rides pretty smooth and I often don't notice how fast I am going. I am 28 years old I have been where that 17 year old kid is and I can say I normally don't speed. I usually average a ticket every year or two.

Look at it this way, though; what happens when you make that one mistake and clip someone and kill someone's family member? I know you don't intend to harm anyone when you do speed, but how many reckless drivers do you think had the intent to kill an innocent bystander or driver?

dwight.j.carter
06-03-08, 11:56 AM
I agree and that's why I think we should not be fined for speeding but held accountable. Like if I where to kill someone I should be facing jail time wether it was an accident or not. For me I am normally not knowingly speeding and I always have my eyes on the road. I have had two accidents in my day and it was when I was a rookie driver. If you drive defensively there is no reason you would get into a wreck. With that being said I normally don't speed.

93DevilleUSMC
06-03-08, 11:59 AM
I agree and that's why I think we should not be fined for speeding but held accountable. Like if I where to kill someone I should be facing jail time wether it was an accident or not. For me I am normally not knowingly speeding and I always have my eyes on the road. I have had two accidents in my day and it was when I was a rookie driver. If you drive defensively there is no reason you would get into a wreck. With that being said I normally don't speed.

My apologies if I generalized you; my opinions where primarily directed towards KdSeville. I do still disgree with your opinion that catching speeders is some sort of money game for the government. I'd be disappointed with them if they didn't go after speeders.

dwight.j.carter
06-03-08, 12:17 PM
Perhaps but how else are they going to fuel the squad cars to give chase ?
All I am saying is it is not only up to the tax payers. After all why should the few be punished for the mistakes of the many ?

93DevilleUSMC
06-03-08, 12:23 PM
Perhaps but how else are they going to fuel the squad cars to give chase ?
All I am saying is it is not only up to the tax payers. After all why should the few be punished for the mistakes of the many ?

The things about that is that the few who are committing speeding violations can, and as often happens, do end up causing a larger accident because they were not paying attention in a far more dangerous situation. If you are going to speed on a 45mph byway, what would stop you from doing the same thing on the freeway and causing a multiple vehicle accident?

It's quite simple; obey the speed limit and harm no other driver. Disobey said speed limit, and you endanger the other drivers on the road, who have every right to do their daily driving without the fear of being injured or killed by those who somehow view themselves as being outside of the law, and whose time and lives as being more important than yours or mine.

dkozloski
06-03-08, 12:52 PM
I've often wondered what kind of home life produces a drver that has no respect for the law and the rights of other drivers who share the road.

chubbyranger
06-03-08, 12:58 PM
Would you go to the airport and get on a plane if there was no security? Even though you are not a criminal or a terrorist you want the reassurance that the other 300 people on the plane aren't either. Would you drive to Grandma's house if there was no speed enforcement on the roads? Then you'd have to share the road with me trying to find out if my STS really doesn't have a speed limiter and who knows how many other idiots trying something similarly stupid. Unmarked cars, Lidar and all the other toys increase enforcement effectiveness. Enforcement effectiveness has the net effect of reducing accidents and deaths. But since the faces of people who DIDN'T get killed today aren't on front page of the paper enforcement is viewed as harrassing revenue generation. Nobody likes it when they get caught but where would you be if nobody else gets caught either?

dwight.j.carter
06-03-08, 01:12 PM
I've often wondered what kind of home life produces a drver that has no respect for the law and the rights of other drivers who share the road.

My guess is one without rules.

hueterm
06-03-08, 01:30 PM
My complaints about traffic stops ended when they caught that OK City bomber due to a traffic stop.

dwight.j.carter
06-03-08, 01:38 PM
My complaints about traffic stops ended when they caught that OK City bomber due to a traffic stop.


True however he should have been caught before hand. It's to bad we don't learn to tighten our security until after something happens. Just like the 911 disaster could have been avoided had we been more secure all along. And had our organazations followed up on leads.

ilikecru
06-03-08, 02:55 PM
My complaints about traffic stops ended when they caught that OK City bomber due to a traffic stop.

Yup...expired tag was the P.C.

And Timothy McVeigh gave his real name and his real personal information.

Wild thing was, it was not known at the time of the stop that McVeigh was the OK City Bomber.

He was stopped and arrested because the Trooper had him step from the vehicle (which everyone MUST DO if requested by the police of face arrest -- See Penn. vs. Mimms - US Supreme Court).

When McVeigh stepped out, the Trooper saw a bulge that he thought was, and turned out to be, a gun.

McVeigh was arrested several hours BEFORE we discoved he was the one. It was only after tracing pieces of the exploded truck did the F.B.I. detemine it was McVeigh.

Thankfully, he was still being held on the gun charge. They told the State Police to hold him..

The rest is history...

Again, a minor traffic stop that leads into something big.

I am asked all the time, "why are you out catching terrorists?" or something similar.

I always ask, " Do you know what one looks like? Can you point them out to me?"

The truth is, if we knew what they "looked like", they would all be in custody by now, don't you think?

One of the 9/11 guys who drove the plane into the Pentigon was here for many years. His kids went to school at the local public school, he owned his house, he had a valid license and good registration. He paid his bills on time and lived like any other American.

But, we found out later that he wasn't...

So, how does one know who is the "bad guy' and who is the "good guy"?

Sure, you might know which side of the line you are on. But, how do I know?

Until I make contact, until I get some personal information, I have no idea who or what you are. Just because you drive a certain vehicle, or dress a certain way, or have a good job doesn't mean squat. Thats evidenced by the above.

I have arrested an 81 year old woman with a loaded Glock. I have arrested a 21 year old college kid driving a brand new BMW with 5 pounds of weed. I have arrested a "Soccer Mom" in a mini-van for refusing to move her vehicle.

Age, Gender, Race, Color, Creed, Ethnic backround, etc..have no bearing on what crimes that people commit.

The 81 year old could have shot me dead just as good as the 21 year old.

I try not to be "lulled" into it.



Thank you all, btw, to those who showed your support here. Its good to know that there are some people out there that understand what I, and thousands of other GOOD Officers, do everyday.

I have always believed that this profession, like many others, is a calling. Someone or something has choosen US to be the peacekeepers and the protectors of out citizens.

I serve the Citizen's with pride and integerty. I always try to do what is right and fair. I am always aware of the trust that was given to me and I strive to keep it prestine and untarnished.

I still love what I do after all these years. It was in my families blood so, it must have been passed down to me.

The next time you see an Officer in the corner store, or in the local gas station, or even in the doughnut shop, stop, smile and bid him/her a good day. Thank them for what they do.

Maybe they will look at you funny. Maybe they will be a bit "stand offish". Maybe they won't even say thank you back.

But know, whether the Officer wants to admit it or not, its things like that, the one simple act of thanks, that make it all worth while to us. We might not smile on the outside, but, we are smiling on the inside.

Plus, that just might the Officer who one day saves your life......

By giving up his own......

Thank You all again..

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 03:24 PM
UGGHHH.....

Here we go!!!!!!

I am asked all the time, "what can I do to get out of a speeding ticket?".

I always have the same answer. I tell them this:

There is a little known secret that if used, it works EVERYTIME. Evey Officer I know, when this "secret" is used, will ALWAYS, I mean ALWAYS, let you go. It has a 100% proven rate of sucess. If someone uses it on me, off they go.

So what is it?

Easy..............OBEY THE SPEED LIMIT..............

Yup. Its that easy.

I seriously doubt that you were not speeding. I doubt that he wrote you a ticket that you didn't deserve. And just how did I come to this?

Several reasons:

1. Officers are highly trained and then retrained at least once every two years on RADAR and LiDAR. Most of the training involves visually estimating speeds of vehicles and THEN observing what the device reads. We are trained to pick out fast cars and taught that if you can't tell which car it is, you don't stop any of them.
I think you are under the impression that modern RADAR can only pick out one vehicle at a time. Newer RADAR ( like the Stalker DUAL SL) that I use can pick out two vehicles (like a tractor trailer and a Honda) at the same time and I get a speed reading on both.
LiDAR is even better. I can "pick-off" a vehicle third in line from 3,000 feet away. All I do is aim, and pull the trigger. The "beam" is so narrow that it CAN'T be anyone but you.

2. Maybe you think he "got you" when you saw him. Again, how mant times have I had to tell people, "Nope, I got you WAYYYY back there!, not up here when you saw me!" Maybe you weren't able to see him, but, I bet he saw you long before you knew he was there.

3. Why would the "pig" (btw, I LOVE that term, PRIDE, INTEGERTY, GUTS, thats ME!) put his entire life on the line to screw up YOUR driving record. You see, we have to swear, under perjury, that everything in that ticket is true and correct to the best of out knowledge.
That means, if we lie, not only can you sue us, but, WE CAN GO TO FEDERAL PRISION. Yup, thats right, we can go to jail.
Why wouldn't he just wait for the next person who is SPEEDING to come by and ticket him?
If you think it has to do with your age, well, go stand on the side of a highway and tell me how old people are as they approach you at 70 mph. I can't tell if your a man, a woman, or a dog driving a car at that speed, much less tell you how old I think you are. Kinda throws out that whole " You just stopped me because (insert stupid reason here, eg. cause I'm drving a nice car, cause I'm a good looking young female, cause whatever, etc...)

Just to clear up a few things, we don't have quotas. We don't get a bonus just because we write so many tickets. We don't get any more pay or any "perks" if we write tickets versus warnings.

Out jobs DO NOT depend on tickets. This is a small portion of what most Officers do.

We don't get any of the money, it doesn't benefit us in any way (unless you count that most of it goes to road maintanice across the State) and our Commanders could care less if we write 50 tickets or 50 warnings.

The fact is, your young, and just by your attitude displayed here alone, I probabaly would have wrote you too. You seem to accept no possiblity that maybe, just MAYBE, you were speeding, and maybe, just MAYBE, you deserved the ticket. No, you resort to name-calling and bad-mouthing. You come here and look for a way to "get rid of it".

That my friend, is being immature. And that makes you an accident waiting to happen. The perosn you kill speeding could be a friend of mine, or a co-worker, or.....maybe someone in my family.

And what gives YOU that right?

I'm sorry, if you don't like what I have to say. If, by some chance, and I will admit that there can be, that you WERE NOT speeding, then, go to court. Pled your case and use your right to make the Officer PROVE you were speeding.

Maybe the Judge will believe you. Maybe not.

But, I don't think this is your FIRST ticket either or you wouldn't be so desperate to "get out of it".

People ask me all the time when I am handing them a ticket, "you must really enjoy doing this don't you?". I usually just smile and say nothing. But, the truth is, do I enjoy slowing people down? Do I enjoy maybe saving someone's life? Do I enjoy making the roads safer for law-abiding travelers?

YOU BET I DO....

And its a shame that YOU have to be fined to understand that.

I'm sorry you got caught. But, play the game enough, and you are bound to lose every once in a while.

That being all said, flame on my friend !!Yeah, the speeding kills argument. Played out and distorted. Speed limits are artificially low and way too often, illegal. The NHTSA has set forth guidelines on road engineering surveys and protocol on how officers are to use speed detection equipment. Not only have those guidelines been ignored in setting speed limits, but way more often than not officers do not follow proper protocol in giving speeding tickets in the first place.

But the government and police force are allowed to get away with it because there is so much misinformation about all of this. Know how the system works and how the courts work and you can often get out of bogus tickets.

I speed constantly and it certainly does NOT kill. Excessive speeding, tailgaiting, weaving are things that can get you killed. I've got well over 1 million miles and have never caused an accident. So the speed kills mantra is a joke.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-03-08, 03:26 PM
I agree. I don't think speed in and of it's self will get you killed. Speeding stupidly or in an unsafe car is what's gonna get you in.

93DevilleUSMC
06-03-08, 03:28 PM
I agree. I don't think speed in and of it's self will get you killed. Speeding stupidly or in an unsafe car is what's gonna get you in.

Well, man, what would you call 70 in a 45? Or worse yet, the weaving over a center line that turns out to be a drunk driver? Yes, it may not necessarily be a DUI, but that can't be determined until a stop is made.

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 03:29 PM
And LiDAR jammers don't work. The unit measures your speed in under a 1/4 of a second. The "jammers" don't have enough time to find the light signal, authenicate the source, respond back to the LiDAR unit with a much more powerful light beam, etc...

By the time that all happens, I have got you !!

LiDAR uses a time-distance formula for speed measurements. Not real easy for most people to build something that can "jam" the unit.

Some may not. Many do. And there is plenty of scientific proof out there. Don't fall for this guy...

MauiV
06-03-08, 03:30 PM
Ilikecru-- You may want to read "The Third Terrorist" by Jayna Davis. She was a local OKC reporter at the time of the bombing and this book goes in pretty deep and shows how McVeigh and Nichols did not act alone in the bombing. Pretty interesting read.... http://www.jaynadavis.com/

I have pics of hte memorial but I think they are on my laptop. Ill try to find them. The small chairs representing the children are enough to make a grown man crumble.

BTW, I speed everywhere. The biggest hazard on the road isnt the guy speeding, its the idiot in the left lane thats going 10 below the limit and the German lane discipline techniques proves this out time and time again. People cruising in the fast lane is who SHOULD be ticketed but that doesnt create as much revenue now does it?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-03-08, 03:32 PM
Well, man, what would you call 70 in a 45?

I guess it all depends on traffic, surroundings and other variables, but for me, I'd never go that fast on a 45 MPH zone. 25mph is too far over for me...I'll usually do 8-9mph over on speeds that have limits over 45mph. Anything under that and I'll usually do the limit.

93DevilleUSMC
06-03-08, 03:36 PM
I guess it all depends on traffic, surroundings and other variables, but for me, I'd never go that fast on a 45 MPH zone. 25mph is too far over for me...I'll usually do 8-9mph over on speeds that have limits over 45mph. Anything under that and I'll usually do the limit.

I feel ya, and traffic is a factor, but the original poster was under no such constraints. He got into a speeding match on the road with another driver, and got angry when both his recklessness and the other driver's were dealt with.

If you want true speed, go to a track and pay to run for a day. You're not endangering anyone else, and you're speeding in a legal venue.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-03-08, 03:39 PM
I like to accelerate hard TO the speed limit. I don't really see where the problem in that lies.

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 04:06 PM
Look at it this way, though; what happens when you make that one mistake and clip someone and kill someone's family member? I know you don't intend to harm anyone when you do speed, but how many reckless drivers do you think had the intent to kill an innocent bystander or driver?That's not just speeding, that's driving irresponsibly. There's a difference...

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 04:10 PM
I've often wondered what kind of home life produces a drver that has no respect for the law and the rights of other drivers who share the road.I'd say those who hog the left lane when it's illegal to sit without passing and who create logjams are more ignorant and disrespectful of others than those who go a few mph over a speed limit that is too low. Going a few mph faster than the car you're passing is not even a shred dangerous...

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 04:18 PM
Well, man, what would you call 70 in a 45? Or worse yet, the weaving over a center line that turns out to be a drunk driver? Yes, it may not necessarily be a DUI, but that can't be determined until a stop is made.Depends on the conditions if 70 in a 45 is too much. Anywhere there is residential areas or a lot of lights, I rarely go more than a couple over. However, on Rte 2, approaching I-95 in Lexington, MA is 2 lanes each way, with a Jersey barrier. 65 mph is the norm. Again, it's being reasonable with your surroundings.

As for DUI, as a chauffeur, I never want a trace of alcohol when I drive. 1 beer at most unless I'm not going to be behind the wheel that night, period.

The problem with all this? Many of you guys are going to think I'm irresponsible and don't care about my driving. I take my driving VERY seriously. Moreso than anyone here. And moreso than anyone you know...

ilikecru
06-03-08, 04:20 PM
Yeah, the speeding kills argument. Played out and distorted. Speed limits are artificially low and way too often, illegal. The NHTSA has set forth guidelines on road engineering surveys and protocol on how officers are to use speed detection equipment. Not only have those guidelines been ignored in setting speed limits, but way more often than not officers do not follow proper protocol in giving speeding tickets in the first place.

But the government and police force are allowed to get away with it because there is so much misinformation about all of this. Know how the system works and how the courts work and you can often get out of bogus tickets.

I speed constantly and it certainly does NOT kill. Excessive speeding, tailgaiting, weaving are things that can get you killed. I've got well over 1 million miles and have never caused an accident. So the speed kills mantra is a joke.

I think you and I are somewhat playing the same song... Only different instruments.

I will agree, speed in and by itself doesn't kill. Just like falling from a tall building doesn't kill.

Its hitting the hard ground that kills you.

The problem with that theory is that not alot of people understand the dynamic of an uncontrolled crash and the forces involved.

We have a saying in Crash Reconstruction that "plays" on the whole speed kills thing:

Its not the SPEED: Its the DELTA V ..

But, I think that speed does, by itself, sometime kill.

Here is how:

Single family home lined street. Speed limit 25.

You ..... say.....double...50... (cause NHTSA says the road can handle it).

Small child darts out.....

How far will it take you to skid at 50?

How far at 25?

Much less at 25, right?

Simple math..... At the speed limit you would have stopped in time without striking the child..

Above the limit at 50....BANG....

Explain to the parents how SPEED DOESN"T KILL....

How about another one for ya....

You and I have identical vehicles...

We both are traveling on the same level road at the same time.

We are about to impact the back of a stopped Tractor-Trailer...

You get to chose which one of us hits at 40 and which on of us gets to impact at 90... I bet I know which one YOU will choose..

We can all pull out studies here and studies there, saying two different things. But, it all comes down to simple math... the faster you go, the harder you hit...

Last one....

Would you rather have a blow-out in your car at 55 or at 90 ?


Have you ever watched a NASCAR race? What does every track have no matter what?

Hint.....its a very visible safety device for the drivers of the cars..

You can see them very easy on EVERY TRACK ....

Got it yet?



Its called the ....RETAINING WALL....

Its the big thing on the oustide of the track to keep the drivers from flying off the track...

Yup, these drivers make millons and millons a year, driving highly tuned vehicles that travel at speeds over 200 mph. And there are no trafffic lights, no on and off ramps, heck, all the really do is drive around and around making left turns... (no disrespect ot NASCAR drivers)..

Plus, thier "rules of the road" are 100 times stricter than ours!!

But, every race, no matter what, someone EATS the wall...

You know why? Because mistake happen and people screw up..

And these guys are PROFESSIONALS !!!

I don't care what any studies say. I would rather hit a wall at 20 then hit it at 80..

Sure speed doesn't kill....

Its the sudden stop you make when your body slams into a solid object that kills you....

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 04:20 PM
Was driving to the beach over a hill doing the speed limit and then this chevy SUV flew past and cut me off. A couple cops pull both of us over and the Pig said I was doing 76!!! I said no, the SUV that cut me off was doing 76, I was doing not even 50 MPH.

He gives the SUV a ticket and me a ticket. I was going to be 311 bucks but he wrote it for 86 plus 2 points on my license! Thats B.S.!!!!

Is there any way I can fight this crap in court?????

Thanks all!!!!!!


I feel ya, and traffic is a factor, but the original poster was under no such constraints. He got into a speeding match on the road with another driver, and got angry when both his recklessness and the other driver's were dealt with.

If you want true speed, go to a track and pay to run for a day. You're not endangering anyone else, and you're speeding in a legal venue.Can we use you to catch lying politicians too?

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 04:29 PM
I think you and I are somewhat playing the same song... Only different instruments.

I will agree, speed in and by itself doesn't kill. Just like falling from a tall building doesn't kill.

Its hitting the hard ground that kills you.

The problem with that theory is that not alot of people understand the dynamic of an uncontrolled crash and the forces involved.

We have a saying in Crash Reconstruction that "plays" on the whole speed kills thing:

Its not the SPEED: Its the DELTA V ..

But, I think that speed does, by itself, sometime kill.

Here is how:

Single family home lined street. Speed limit 25.

You ..... say.....double...50... (cause NHTSA says the road can handle it).

Small child darts out.....

How far will it take you to skid at 50?

How far at 25?

Much less at 25, right?

Simple math..... At the speed limit you would have stopped in time without striking the child..

Above the limit at 50....BANG....

Explain to the parents how SPEED DOESN"T KILL....

How about another one for ya....

You and I have identical vehicles...

We both are traveling on the same level road at the same time.

We are about to impact the back of a stopped Tractor-Trailer...

You get to chose which one of us hits at 40 and which on of us gets to impact at 90... I bet I know which one YOU will choose..

We can all pull out studies here and studies there, saying two different things. But, it all comes down to simple math... the faster you go, the harder you hit...

Last one....

Would you rather have a blow-out in your car at 55 or at 90 ?


Have you ever watched a NASCAR race? What does every track have no matter what?

Hint.....its a very visible safety device for the drivers of the cars..

You can see them very easy on EVERY TRACK ....

Got it yet?



Its called the ....RETAINING WALL....

Its the big thing on the oustide of the track to keep the drivers from flying off the track...

Yup, these drivers make millons and millons a year, driving highly tuned vehicles that travel at speeds over 200 mph. And there are no trafffic lights, no on and off ramps, heck, all the really do is drive around and around making left turns... (no disrespect ot NASCAR drivers)..

Plus, thier "rules of the road" are 100 times stricter than ours!!

But, every race, no matter what, someone EATS the wall...

You know why? Because mistake happen and people screw up..

And these guys are PROFESSIONALS !!!

I don't care what any studies say. I would rather hit a wall at 20 then hit it at 80..

Sure speed doesn't kill....

Its the sudden stop you make when your body slams into a solid object that kills you....Look, I'm not going to go into every scenario. But I am ALWAYS aware of my surroundings. On the highway, there are no children. But I always move over a lane for disabled vehicles. If there is a very slow car on the highway, I'll ease by.

On the streets, there are infinite variables to be sure. My speed may vary due to a clump of houses, cars stopped on the side of the road, etc...But I always stop for pedestrians, I ease it around children and areas where there are a lot of children. Even if the area is clear, if I see potential of a surprise, I have the foot hovering over the brake.

I am constantly examining my surroundings, at all times. I always check my mirrors, I move over for faster traffic and I strive to keep traffic flow smooth.

Florian
06-03-08, 04:32 PM
...snip....

Its not the SPEED: Its the DELTA V ..

snip....


can we just say that differential speed kills? The bigger the difference, the higher the likelihood of demise.


F

ilikecru
06-03-08, 04:32 PM
Some may not. Many do. And there is plenty of scientific proof out there. Don't fall for this guy...


Ok.. I will admit that they can and do work...

But, I fall back to my orginal statement:

If I am getting vehicle with my LiDAR at 900-950 feet all day, and then I have a car that I can't get anything on, that I know is above the limit, the car is going to be STOPPED and searched.

Its that simple...

Plus, if you want to go to jail on a criminal charge that carries up to 3 years in this state, by trying to get out of a payable traffic citation, more power to ya, bud...

Have at it...

But, I guess its all about the risks we are all willing to take.

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 04:34 PM
Let me add that on the track, racers have to maximize their speed to be competitive. There is nowhere in this country that speeding responsibly will ever get you in a wall. Me doing 80 in a 65 will never get me in a wall. If there is a treacherous turn, there is always 100 signs telling you so.

Hitting a wall at 80 or 20 is not realistic on American roads unless gross negligence occurs, which makes the casual speeding argument moot.

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 04:35 PM
Ok.. I will admit that they can and do work...

That's all I'm saying.

MauiV
06-03-08, 04:40 PM
If I am getting vehicle with my LiDAR at 900-950 feet all day, and then I have a car that I can't get anything on, that I know is above the limit, the car is going to be STOPPED and searched.

And how do you KNOW that car is speeding if your LIDAR isnt working?

Enjoy my very good lawyer exposing your illegal search and seizure based on profiling and your ineffective equipment.

ilikecru
06-03-08, 04:40 PM
Look, I'm not going to go into every scenario. But I am ALWAYS aware of my surroundings. On the highway, there are no children. But I always move over a lane for disabled vehicles. If there is a very slow car on the highway, I'll ease by.

On the streets, there are infinite variables to be sure. My speed may vary due to a clump of houses, cars stopped on the side of the road, etc...But I always stop for pedestrians, I ease it around children and areas where there are a lot of children. Even if the area is clear, if I see potential of a surprise, I have the foot hovering over the brake.

I am constantly examining my surroundings, at all times. I always check my mirrors, I move over for faster traffic and I strive to keep traffic flow smooth.

I have no doubt that you are nothing short of a great driver. Logging a million accident free miles is truely something.

But, do you agree that the faster you are going, the more likely you are to be killed or kill someone?

Also, how do account for the deer that runs in front of you on the highway?

I mean after all, studies have shown (by NHTSA) that deer kill more people in traffic crashes than any other animal......wink,wink....

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 04:42 PM
Look, no matter what, I respect the police. Just because I don't agree with general speed enforcement, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate what they do. I know a few of my local town police personally and we're friendly. My cousin is a police officer in a not so quiet town and every time I hear of an issue in his town, I pray for him. It's an incredibly difficult job and I truly appreciate that.

Even though my record is squeaky clean, I have been pulled over on occasion. I am never anything but respectful to them. I give them no reason to take notice of me at all. I fight my battles in court. And either the magistrate(in MA) throws out the case or it goes to court. And 80% of the time, the officer has not shown up...

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 04:44 PM
And how do you KNOW that car is speeding if your LIDAR isnt working?

Enjoy my very good lawyer exposing your illegal search and seizure based on profiling and your ineffective equipment.The officer is suppose to watch you and gauge your speed visually and THEN confirm that with his speed measurement device...

ilikecru
06-03-08, 04:47 PM
And how do you KNOW that car is speeding if your LIDAR isnt working?

Enjoy my very good lawyer exposing your illegal search and seizure based on profiling and your ineffective equipment.


Umm....its called visual estimation of speed....

Read up on how we are trained....Its a required part of operating RADAR and LiDAR....

We are tested on it every two years and must be within 5 mph of the test taget vehicles...All 25 of them...

Also, what makes my search illegal? what makes my seizure illegal?

I can articulate what happened through out the day (unit working fine). What happened when you can along (couldn't get a speed or distance reading) and what happened after you went by ( the device started to perform normal again)...

Don't think thier is a Judge out there that would allow it...

Don't think a Jury would have a problem either...

How is it profiling, BTW?

MauiV
06-03-08, 04:56 PM
The officer is suppose to watch you and gauge your speed visually and THEN confirm that with his speed measurement device...

I hope Barny has a very good logarithm working in his head to judge said speed visually from straight on. Go stand next to some railroad tracks and judge the speed of the approaching locomotive. Like I said, my lawyer would have a field day with such a stop.

If Im doing 4 over and everyone else on the road is going 15 under, Im gonna look much faster than the rest of traffic. I dont own a LIDAR jammer and most likely never will but to be so brazen as to say this WILL happen is pretty damn pampas, even for a cop.

Since speed kills maybe we should all just stay inside the house since it obviously fatal to be in a car at any speed under the right conditions. If you go over a 1000' cliff at 10 mph vs 100 mph it really isnt going to make that much of a difference now is it?

Cars now are safer, faster stopping, more airbagged and impact survivable than ever but the laws remain as archaic as they were 50 years ago.

My 2 brother in laws are cops as is one of my closest cousins and I respect what they do. In Louisville they have dedicated Camaros and Chargers for Speedtrapping. Thats all they do on a 6 lane Interstate. Waste of time and effort. I have lived near po-dunk municipalities that support their towns with speeding tickets of outsiders passing through (Shannedoah, Texas) and its a friggin joke.

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 04:57 PM
I have no doubt that you are nothing short of a great driver. Logging a million accident free miles is truely something.

But, do you agree that the faster you are going, the more likely you are to be killed or kill someone?

Also, how do account for the deer that runs in front of you on the highway?

I mean after all, studies have shown (by NHTSA) that deer kill more people in traffic crashes than any other animal......wink,wink....If you want to say Car A traveling at 50mph that hits object X will cause less damage than Car B that travels at 80mph and that hits object X, yes, the faster car will cause more damage.

However, my keeping other objects in check keeps that variable out of it. I only do speeds that are responsible considering my surroundings. Is there a car that's weaving 2 lanes to my right and may cut off the car directly to my right? I'm off the gas and ready to hit the brake and get to the left, if clear. Do you ever notice that cars wanting to come into your lane tend to drift to your side of their lane? I look at people's side view and rear view mirrors and can see by their eyes what they're potentially planning on doing. Is there a car in the fast lane slowing down with a driver constantly looking over their shoulder? Do they have out-of-state plates? They may be just about to try a desparation move to make the next exit.

And unless you're doing 150mph, you can usually make an evasive maneuver to lessen the impact of a wild animal. A few months ago, a black bear in full stride crossed I-95 south of Portsmouth, NH. He wasn't going to slow down for anybody. Doing 80mph allowed me to cross right in front of him. If I was doing 65 at that moment, I'd have to slam my brakes and swerve to miss him. Moral? Wild animals are a wild card. And hitting one at 50 may bounce differently than at 80 and may cause more damage. You never know.

Florian
06-03-08, 04:59 PM
Umm....its called visual estimation of speed....

Read up on how we are trained....Its a required part of operating RADAR and LiDAR....

We are tested on it every two years and must be within 5 mph of the test taget vehicles...All 25 of them...

Also, what makes my search illegal? what makes my seizure illegal?

I can articulate what happened through out the day (unit working fine). What happened when you can along (couldn't get a speed or distance reading) and what happened after you went by ( the device started to perform normal again)...

Don't think thier is a Judge out there that would allow it...

Don't think a Jury would have a problem either...

How is it profiling, BTW?

AFAIK, Lidar jamming is yet to be illegal in my state. Not sure about other states, but its just light. One could put up a very good case that I use my 'jammer' as a parking assist unit....to detect how close I am to other objects....
I know that Infinity/Lexus/MB have these on the fronts of their cars and they set off my detector so they are on the same wavelength as the Lidar units.

Seems plausible.


F

dwight.j.carter
06-03-08, 04:59 PM
Lol this post is never going to end. Lets just face facts here nobody likes getting a speeding ticket. But I think at some point we all get them. I wish I would have shown up in court in case the officer didn't show but I didn't want to mess with it and paid the ticket.

MauiV
06-03-08, 04:59 PM
How is it profiling, BTW?


You have no idea what color, race, ethinicity, sex or religion I am over this computer screen BUT in a court of law Im a _______ person in a nice car being pulled over on suspicion and nothing more.

Good Luck.

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 05:01 PM
I hope Barny has a very good logarithm working in his head to judge said speed visually from straight on. Go stand next to some railroad tracks and judge the speed of the approaching locomotive. Like I said, my lawyer would have a field day with such a stop.

If Im doing 4 over and everyone else on the road is going 15 under, Im gonna look much faster than the rest of traffic. I dont own a LIDAR jammer and most likely never will but to be so brazen as to say this WILL happen is pretty damn pampas, even for a cop.

Since speed kills maybe we should all just stay inside the house since it obviously fatal to be in a car at any speed under the right conditions. If you go over a 1000' cliff at 10 mph vs 100 mph it really isnt going to make that much of a difference now is it?

Cars now are safer, faster stopping, more airbagged and impact survivable than ever but the laws remain as archaic as they were 50 years ago.

My 2 brother in laws are cops as is one of my closest cousins and I respect what they do. In Louisville they have dedicated Camaros and Chargers for Speedtrapping. Thats all they do on a 6 lane Interstate. Waste of time and effort. I have lived near po-dunk municipalities that support their towns with speeding tickets of outsiders passing through (Shannedoah, Texas) and its a friggin joke.Hey, I'm just saying what protocol is. And many officers do not do this. It can be another valuable piece of evidence when fighting tickets in court.Pick your fights wisely and then educate yourself. You don't need a lawyer for this, just know what the facts are...

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 05:03 PM
AFAIK, Lidar jamming is yet to be illegal in my state. Not sure about other states, but its just light. One could put up a very good case that I use my 'jammer' as a parking assist unit....to detect how close I am to other objects....
I know that Infinity/Lexus/MB have these on the fronts of their cars and they set off my detector so they are on the same wavelength as the Lidar units.

Seems plausible.


FThey are legal in far more states than they are illegal in. They're still legal in MA. And they're regulated by the Food and Drug Admin...

ilikecru
06-03-08, 05:16 PM
I hope Barny has a very good logarithm working in his head to judge said speed visually from straight on. Go stand next to some railroad tracks and judge the speed of the approaching locomotive. Like I said, my lawyer would have a field day with such a stop.

If Im doing 4 over and everyone else on the road is going 15 under, Im gonna look much faster than the rest of traffic. I dont own a LIDAR jammer and most likely never will but to be so brazen as to say this WILL happen is pretty damn pampas, even for a cop.

Since speed kills maybe we should all just stay inside the house since it obviously fatal to be in a car at any speed under the right conditions. If you go over a 1000' cliff at 10 mph vs 100 mph it really isnt going to make that much of a difference now is it?

Cars now are safer, faster stopping, more airbagged and impact survivable than ever but the laws remain as archaic as they were 50 years ago.

My 2 brother in laws are cops as is one of my closest cousins and I respect what they do. In Louisville they have dedicated Camaros and Chargers for Speedtrapping. Thats all they do on a 6 lane Interstate. Waste of time and effort. I have lived near po-dunk municipalities that support their towns with speeding tickets of outsiders passing through (Shannedoah, Texas) and its a friggin joke.

I always have to laugh when someone threatens me with some "high-dollar" lawyer....

I heard "Johnny Cockrian is MY lawyer" so many times when the O.J. trial was going on it made my ears bleed...

Its really funny too when those very same people come to Court, tail tucked between thier legs, represented by a public defender, or...

I get a call from thier "high-dollar" lawyer who wants to work a plea deal..

PLEASE!!

YOUR lawyer will have to convice a Judge. Not me..

Maybe it will be suppressed....Who knows?

But, you will have to come to court, you will be out 1 seized for evidence "Parking assist module"...

And I'm not talking about you being 5 over the limit and causing me alarm..

The people who have these things are more than likely going to risk arrest for alot more than 5 over the limit...

I suspect it would be at least 20 over...

And I can estimate (visually) someone over the limit by that much...

I have years and years of tests showing just how good I am at performing this function..

Sure... You come to court with the "parking assit" arguement (even though it wasn't yours), and I'll come to court with estimation documents, certified calibration records, my certfications, and all my years of experience in traffic enforcement...

It would be an interesting trial.....

ilikecru
06-03-08, 05:20 PM
You have no idea what color, race, ethinicity, sex or religion I am over this computer screen BUT in a court of law Im a _______ person in a nice car being pulled over on suspicion and nothing more.

Good Luck.

Yup....and the SCOTUS has ruled its legal...

Its called....Reasonable Articutable Suspicion.....

And we can stop for it....

Do it all the time for DUI's..

But, I think it makes probable cause for the search so.....

And what does a "nice car" have to do with it???

Read up a little on current case law. See what it says we can and can't do.

You will be suprised....

:thumbsup:

MauiV
06-03-08, 05:21 PM
Were not happy until your not happy.

Thats OK, maybe someday youll make rank and they will let you actually deal with criminals.

Until then Ill enjoy making you walk up to my car in the rain.

ilikecru
06-03-08, 05:29 PM
Were not happy until your not happy.

Thats OK, maybe someday youll make rank and they will let you actually deal with criminals.

Until then Ill enjoy making you walk up to my car in the rain.

I think you are under the impression that all I do is traffic....

Sorry to disappoint.... I do all sorts of enforcement... traffic is just a small % ..

As for getting wet....

If I'm getting wet standing outside, so, are you...

Its the first thing I do...Have the driver exit and stand on the sidewalk...

Don't think you have to comply?

Penn. State Vs. Mimms (1976)-- US Supreme Court--

We can order the drvier in and out of the vehicle for ANY reason....thats ANY reason...

Failure to comply WILL lead to arrest.... Ask a few of the people I have convicted for it.....

And what rank deals with "real criminals"???

ilikecru
06-03-08, 05:35 PM
They are legal in far more states than they are illegal in. They're still legal in MA. And they're regulated by the Food and Drug Admin...

Here we call it Obstruction....

If the intent is to avoid detection by Law Enforcement...

Its illegeal....

It the intent is to assist with cruise control....

Your good to go...

But, be prepared to show how it assists with parking or cruise control in court when I come into Court with a load of documentation for the company showing what the manufacter of the device says it to be used for...

Maybe you can point out in the docs during trial where is says that it helps with parking assist....

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 06:39 PM
Here we call it Obstruction....

If the intent is to avoid detection by Law Enforcement...

Its illegeal....

It the intent is to assist with cruise control....

Your good to go...

But, be prepared to show how it assists with parking or cruise control in court when I come into Court with a load of documentation for the company showing what the manufacter of the device says it to be used for...

Maybe you can point out in the docs during trial where is says that it helps with parking assist....I'm not talking parking assist, I'm talking full blown, good ole laser jammers. And they're not illegal in Massachusetts. Now, an officer may cite me for Obstruction, I'm just using what the law allows me. Either way, I'm not paying extra on my insurance the next 7 years...

Submariner409
06-03-08, 06:48 PM
This is just like a good ol' Gene Autry movie.....the Bad Guys and the Good Guys chasing each other over the prairie.

C'mon, children: Law is Law, common sense is common sense, and if (when)you get caught, you pay the price.

Don't get into a snit if you get caught breaking a motor vehicle law: they're on the books to protect The Majority, and you ain't The Majority. (.....and no matter how much you and the defense lawyer ambulance chasers bitch and moan, The Majority eventually rules.)

thebigjimsho
06-03-08, 06:58 PM
C'mon, children: Law is Law, common sense is common sense, and if (when)you get caught, you pay the price.

That's right. And if the speed limits are illegal and the way the officer measures speed isn't up to protocol, you have every right to go to court and get the ticket RIGHTLY thrown out of court...

dkozloski
06-03-08, 07:09 PM
If the cop expects the speeder to be fair and square he has the same responsibility to do his job correctly.

ilikecru
06-03-08, 07:18 PM
I'm not talking parking assist, I'm talking full blown, good ole laser jammers. And they're not illegal in Massachusetts. Now, an officer may cite me for Obstruction, I'm just using what the law allows me. Either way, I'm not paying extra on my insurance the next 7 years...

Bet you there is SOMETHING is Mass. law that says you can't obstruct or interfere with a police operation...

Maybe not???

Who knows???

Just remember, when in Rome, we must do as the Romans do...

Meaning, maybe its legal there, but, its is NOT legel here.

And, if you want to take the word of some company thats taking your money that it is NOT illegal.. Go right ahead...

Or take the advice of some Lawyer who practices in that State, go right ahead...

But just remember, if they are wrong, ITS YOU that goes to jail, NOT THEM ..

I'm sure there are laws in every state saying you can't obstruct, hinder, or purposely "jam" a tool utilized by Law Enforcement in order to break the law...or at least something similar..

Its your freedom, buddy...Do with it as you wish...Just don't complain that you "didn't know" when you get caught and locked up...

(It always mystifies me why someone would rather go to jail than just slow down. Put your entire freedom on the line trying to prove a point that they "think" they are right about, only to cry, whine and beg for mercy when they find out just the opposite)

And TRY SLOWING DOWN....

Thats a sure fire way to make your rates go down...

93DevilleUSMC
06-03-08, 08:09 PM
That's not just speeding, that's driving irresponsibly. There's a difference...

They can often be one and the same, but there are instances where the two are separate.

93DevilleUSMC
06-03-08, 08:11 PM
Can we use you to catch lying politicians too?

Sure, got anyone in mind?

dwight.j.carter
06-03-08, 08:28 PM
Sure, got anyone in mind?

Hill dog lol she needs to take her pantsuit and leave ! :histeric:

93DevilleUSMC
06-03-08, 08:32 PM
Hill dog lol she needs to take her pantsuit and leave ! :histeric:

Caught; have a nice day.

chubbyranger
06-04-08, 06:17 PM
The fallacy of speeding is that it really doesn't save you time. My daughter recently bought a GPS navigation unit since she has to drive to a bunch of places for work. She notice that if she slowed down from 80 to 65 it only added another 2 minutes to the transit time. Compared to the 10 minutes or more you can be tied up in a traffic stop its kind of false economy.

dkozloski
06-04-08, 06:24 PM
The fallacy of speeding is that it really doesn't save you time. My daughter recently bought a GPS navigation unit since she has to drive to a bunch of places for work. She notice that if she slowed down from 80 to 65 it only added another 2 minutes to the transit time. Compared to the 10 minutes or more you can be tied up in a traffic stop its kind of false economy.
It's all in the adrenaline rush of being a scofflaw.

dwight.j.carter
06-04-08, 06:34 PM
It's all in the adrenaline rush of being a scofflaw.

What's a scofflaw ?

dwight.j.carter
06-04-08, 06:35 PM
The fallacy of speeding is that it really doesn't save you time. My daughter recently bought a GPS navigation unit since she has to drive to a bunch of places for work. She notice that if she slowed down from 80 to 65 it only added another 2 minutes to the transit time. Compared to the 10 minutes or more you can be tied up in a traffic stop its kind of false economy.

that's interesting it does make sense. 10-20mph over is probably going to make very little difference.

dkozloski
06-04-08, 09:16 PM
What's a scofflaw ?
That's a term used mostly in the Northeast to describe somebody who scoffs at the law; who thinks that the law should not apply to them.

thebigjimsho
06-04-08, 11:09 PM
The fallacy of speeding is that it really doesn't save you time. My daughter recently bought a GPS navigation unit since she has to drive to a bunch of places for work. She notice that if she slowed down from 80 to 65 it only added another 2 minutes to the transit time. Compared to the 10 minutes or more you can be tied up in a traffic stop its kind of false economy.And I also passed a fellow chauffeur a few months back heading Rte 2 E near the Alewife T station. Only by about 5mph. But I made the light heading towards Alewife Brook Parkway. I then hit a green light on 5 of the 7 lights I passed on the way to I-93S, which was the way to the airport. Because the other driven didn't make the first light, he hit almost all red lights the rest of the way. I made it there almost 10 minutes before he did.

And everytime I head in the Mass Pike to Boston from one of our largest accounts in Marlborough, 32 miles away, I do 75mph in the 65mph zones and 70mph in the 55mph zones. That shaves my drive times by 5-7 minutes on each trip. And there are countless times I landed an extra job because I cleared early.

As a chauffeur, time matters. In fact, I once landed a job to NYC because I cleared when I did. $500 is nothing to sneeze at...

thebigjimsho
06-04-08, 11:17 PM
Bet you there is SOMETHING is Mass. law that says you can't obstruct or interfere with a police operation...

Maybe not???

Who knows???

Just remember, when in Rome, we must do as the Romans do...

Meaning, maybe its legal there, but, its is NOT legel here.

And, if you want to take the word of some company thats taking your money that it is NOT illegal.. Go right ahead...

Or take the advice of some Lawyer who practices in that State, go right ahead...

But just remember, if they are wrong, ITS YOU that goes to jail, NOT THEM ..

I'm sure there are laws in every state saying you can't obstruct, hinder, or purposely "jam" a tool utilized by Law Enforcement in order to break the law...or at least something similar..

Its your freedom, buddy...Do with it as you wish...Just don't complain that you "didn't know" when you get caught and locked up...

(It always mystifies me why someone would rather go to jail than just slow down. Put your entire freedom on the line trying to prove a point that they "think" they are right about, only to cry, whine and beg for mercy when they find out just the opposite)

And TRY SLOWING DOWN....

Thats a sure fire way to make your rates go down...Call obstruction all you want. But if you don't have verified evidence of pulling me over, I'm not getting points. As for slowing down to make my rates go down, I can't. I'm a ZERO step. Which means they are as low as can be.

I'll just keep doing what I'm doing, thanks.

MauiV
06-05-08, 01:39 AM
The fallacy of speeding is that it really doesn't save you time. My daughter recently bought a GPS navigation unit since she has to drive to a bunch of places for work. She notice that if she slowed down from 80 to 65 it only added another 2 minutes to the transit time. Compared to the 10 minutes or more you can be tied up in a traffic stop its kind of false economy.


You average 55mph on a 350 mile trip and Ill average 80mph on that same trip.

Now Mr Wizard, tell me whos gonna get there faster? Your looking at HOURS saved not 2 minutes.

The speed limit on Americas Intertate system is antiquated and only necessary because of the morons without the common sense to stay in the right lane except to pass.

csosteve
06-05-08, 06:32 PM
firstimecaddi is a punk, my father died on the job, wishing that the popo dead, over tickets- maybe i will start a quota with my brothers in arms ticket all caddys, no that would make me sound like the jerk firstimecaddi, my point is statement made by firstimecaddi, hurts- lawenforcement is much more than writing tickets--10hrs aday dealing with scum, and this jerks wants me dead for enforcing traffic laws that proven to save lives, well i quess it time to ban me from your site firstimecaddi cross over stateline you will be nocaddi

Florian
06-05-08, 07:23 PM
You average 55mph on a 350 mile trip and Ill average 80mph on that same trip.

Now Mr Wizard, tell me whos gonna get there faster? Your looking at HOURS saved not 2 minutes.

The speed limit on Americas Intertate system is antiquated and only necessary because of the morons without the common sense to stay in the right lane except to pass.

tis true.....2 hours to be exact.

F

Chicano-Mexicano
06-05-08, 10:05 PM
.The speed limit on Americas Intertate system is antiquated and only necessary because of the morons without the common sense to stay in the right lane except to pass.

Actually the speed limit in most of the States around me like Michigan, Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Missouri (I live in Illinois its still 55mph) is 65mph-75mph which in my opinion is what the national limit should be cause as Sammy Haggar once said "I Can't Drive 55!"

Though I do have a funny story about the regional speed limit differences, I was traveling Home from Michigan after purchasing my Eldo and I was driving through Iowa (75mph speed limit so I was probably doing 80 or so) and I see the Welcome to Illinois sign and just as I pass it a 5O pulls out behind me with the cherries on full and pulls me over and proceeds to tell me that I was doing 80 in a 55, now this is a key piece of information their was no speed limit change from 75-55 when I crossed the state line meaning their was no way I or any one else could have know that the speed limit had magically become 55. So I resentfully waited for the cop to finish his little rant on why my generation is a danger to every one on the road before I presented my little observation and that he neglected to stop the car in front of me (which was my dad in his Grand Prix SC) or the cars behind me who were all easily doing 80 or more and that unless he could prove that I was given full notice of a change in the speed limit before he stopped me I was going to fight the ticket. His response he kinda shook his head and walked back to his cruiser and took off, thats right took off no ticket. No real moral to the story except that I GOT OUT OF A TICKET!

the cadillac kid
06-05-08, 10:11 PM
wow, so much bullshit in this thread. btw, tbjs, i agree with you for the second time this week! :eek:



to the OP, Kdeville, call the phone number on the ticket & put in a plea of not guilty. Set a court date, dress sharply in a suit, tie & dress shoes, show up on time. Talk to some lawyers & see how much they want to take your case--weigh that against how much the infraction costs & how much it will affect your insurance (or parents insurance).

for me, my parents pay my insurance, i got a 2 point ticket & went to court to get rid of those points, paid 450 out of my pocket & kept the points off my license.


if you genuinely weren't speeding, then convey that to the judge, the prosecutor, and the arresting officer. The officer can put in a good word for you with the prosecutor if you decide to take a plea deal. Unfortunately, if you have no evidence to prove your side, you're SOL. its your word versus the officer's, and generally, the officer's word is taken to heart more than the defendants. if you have a clean record, they'll see it (but mention it anyway)... it will help your case.


good luck.

the cadillac kid
06-05-08, 10:25 PM
btw, will Steven's 15 year old Ford Escort have the same braking and handling capabilities as a current generation cts/v?
no.

the posted limit is not the ''safest speed for all motorists to travel at," it is actually well below the the "safest speed" for steven's 94 escort, so going 80 in a 55 (average flow of traffic here) in a new car with strong brakes and great handling capabilities which have been tested at The Ring is far from chaotic.

dkozloski
06-05-08, 10:34 PM
But it's so much fun to watch the sore losers squeal when they get written up. As Mark Twain said, you can get more pure pleasure out of one malicious act than any amount of good deeds.

Chicano-Mexicano
06-05-08, 10:51 PM
the posted limit is not the ''safest speed for all motorists to travel at," it is actually well below the the "safest speed" for steven's 94 escort, so going 80 in a 55 (average flow of traffic here) in a new car with strong brakes and great handling capabilities which have been tested at The Ring is far from chaotic.

That is true but, isn't it "steven's" (Frankly I don't care for that name I think I'll call him Edwin Q. Quigly) Edwin's responsibility to know what his escort can safely do, I mean I knew my 92 shit box civic could do 88 (if the road was long enough and flat enough and their was no head wind and.......) but the question is would I want to drive it that fast? Hell no, I mean I would barley trust it at 55. So if you're ignorant enough to drive said shit box at top end with the dillusion that it can safely travel at that speed than you really shouldn't be driving, now should you.

the cadillac kid
06-05-08, 11:13 PM
if the car passes inspection, it means its good to go on the roads.
so if a standard car is able to perform at the standard, then fine, and if it surpasses that standard, then that is irresponsible and potentially hazardous to everyone.
but if the car is well equipped or 'above standard,' and can respond well to the road conditions and situations, then dont give that guy grief. Essentially, you're saying "because a POS has awful brakes and a high roll over rating plus inferior handling capabilities, we're going to treat you the same way."


but of course, we cant proceed with this because it would ruffle to many feathers.

Mark0101
06-06-08, 04:05 AM
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/police-on-power-trip_160316.htm

Chicano-Mexicano
06-06-08, 06:26 AM
Essentially, you're saying "because a POS has awful brakes and a high roll over rating plus inferior handling capabilities, we're going to treat you the same way."

No what I'm saying is know your car, just because it passes inspection doesn't mean it should be driven at high speeds, my civic was a great example of this, it had bad suspension, horrible skinny tires (even after they were replaced), and horrendously bad performance (was near impossible for it to hold 65 with out making a shit load of noise). So your basically telling me that just becasue people still drive shitty econo-boxes on the highway (no offense to any one that does) that we should all have to suffer because he/she or they doesn't know what his car can safely do, I mean where does it end. I say if your car has trouble breaking 50 (which most crappy econo-boxes do) then pull into the far right lane and do 50 then.

urbanski
06-06-08, 08:10 AM
firstimecaddi is a punk, my father died on the job, wishing that the popo dead, over tickets- maybe i will start a quota with my brothers in arms ticket all caddys, no that would make me sound like the jerk firstimecaddi, my point is statement made by firstimecaddi, hurts- lawenforcement is much more than writing tickets--10hrs aday dealing with scum, and this jerks wants me dead for enforcing traffic laws that proven to save lives, well i quess it time to ban me from your site firstimecaddi cross over stateline you will be nocaddi

you're not getting banned

MauiV
06-06-08, 11:50 AM
It helps your "points" if you can manage to secure a drivers license from 2 different states. Not saying its legal but it has been done.

dkozloski
06-06-08, 12:44 PM
It helps your "points" if you can manage to secure a drivers license from 2 different states. Not saying its legal but it has been done.
The "Real ID" act that is just going into effect knocks that idea in the head. The Sept 11 terrorists had multiple drivers licenses.

93DevilleUSMC
06-06-08, 01:52 PM
The "Real ID" act that is just going into effect knocks that idea in the head. The Sept 11 terrorists had multiple drivers licenses.

I love how people think they have so many ways around law enforcement! Then, when they get caught, they scream that their "rights" are being violated! Let's see, there is no right to multiple IDs.

93DevilleUSMC
06-06-08, 01:55 PM
Here's an idea; you choose to speed, then you are acknowledging that there are penalties and that you can be caught and forced to pay those penalties. If you're going to engage in behavior that results in traffic fines, then be a man and deal with your own actions, and don't post online like a coward, begging for help and weaseling your way out of your own problems. You got a ticket? Poor you! Who cares?

dkozloski
06-06-08, 02:05 PM
Here's an idea; you choose to speed, then you are acknowledging that there are penalties and that you can be caught and forced to pay those penalties. If you're going to engage in behavior that results in traffic fines, then be a man and deal with your own actions, and don't post online like a coward, begging for help is weaseling your way out of your own problems. You got a ticket? Poor you! Who cares?
Exactly! Don't do the crime if you can't pay the fine.

93DevilleUSMC
06-06-08, 02:14 PM
Exactly! Don't do the crime if you can't pay the fine.

More like, don't do the crime and expect me to feel sorry for you.

thebigjimsho
06-06-08, 02:43 PM
More like, don't do the crime and expect me to feel sorry for you.More like, speeding is not a crime which is why we can screw with the system and make it back-asswards so we can get away with a revenue system. But we'll make it seem like a crime...

93DevilleUSMC
06-06-08, 03:03 PM
More like, speeding is not a crime which is why we can screw with the system and make it back-asswards so we can get away with a revenue system. But we'll make it seem like a crime...

So, every law that you disagree with is some kind of government kick-back operation?

the cadillac kid
06-06-08, 03:08 PM
Here's an idea; you choose to speed, then you are acknowledging that there are penalties and that you can be caught and forced to pay those penalties. If you're going to engage in behavior that results in traffic fines, then be a man and deal with your own actions, and don't post online like a coward, begging for help and weaseling your way out of your own problems. You got a ticket? Poor you! Who cares?

more like, if you dont care for the thread, dont open it. Unsubscribe.

I'll gladly help this guy try and keep his record from getting tainted.

93DevilleUSMC
06-06-08, 03:10 PM
more like, if you dont care for the thread, dont open it. Unsubscribe.

I'll gladly help this guy try and keep his record from getting tainted.

More like, if I choose to express an opinion in a thread which has already evolved into a debate, then I have every right to post in here.

Thank you, grasshopper.

the cadillac kid
06-06-08, 03:17 PM
More like, if you want to debate a certain issue, make a thread specifically for that. In this thread though, try to help the O.P. with his speeding ticket and clearing his name.

Thank you, Sir.

93DevilleUSMC
06-06-08, 03:19 PM
More like, if you want to debate a certain issue, make a thread specifically for that. In this thread though, try to help the O.P. with his speeding ticket and clearing his name.

Thank you, Sir.

That's just it; I do not believe that he deserves any help. If he is so guiltless, then let him prove so, and with more substantial things than calling police officers "pigs" or some other randomly chosen farm animal.

I am not the first to express the above opinion, and will not likely be the last.

the cadillac kid
06-06-08, 03:37 PM
how much courtroom experience and knowledge does a 17 year old have? He may be guiltless & end up been found guilty because of how he goes about this. Rather than helping someone, a lot of people are shitting on his thread.

thebigjimsho
06-06-08, 04:28 PM
So, every law that you disagree with is some kind of government kick-back operation?Only the ones that are designed that way...

dkozloski
06-06-08, 04:31 PM
A seventeen year old can have a rap sheet 100 offenses long and been in the court system for years. They'll stand there, look you right in the eye, and tell you how mistreated and misundersood they are. To them it's all a game and we're the suckers.

the cadillac kid
06-06-08, 04:40 PM
:tisk: :tisk:
koz, i expected more from you :nono:

dkozloski
06-06-08, 04:55 PM
I'm not refering to the original poster. It sounds to me like he's in a picklejam not of his own making. He needs to tell his story in a straight forward manner and hope he's heard.

Florian
06-06-08, 05:11 PM
werd


F

93DevilleUSMC
06-06-08, 08:41 PM
how much courtroom experience and knowledge does a 17 year old have? He may be guiltless & end up been found guilty because of how he goes about this. Rather than helping someone, a lot of people are shitting on his thread.

What experience? Experience in violating the law and getting away with it? The only courtroom experience he should seek in this matter is how to answer for his crimes.

93DevilleUSMC
06-06-08, 08:42 PM
Only the ones that are designed that way...

The government make money? My God, how dare they?!

dkozloski
06-06-08, 09:29 PM
What experience? Experience in violating the law and getting away with it? The only courtroom experience he should seek in this matter is how to answer for his crimes.
He didn't do anything. He's been wrongfully accused and needs to find a way to effectively defend himself from injustice.

the cadillac kid
06-06-08, 11:14 PM
If he is so guiltless, then let him prove so
he's on here trying to find out how he can prove his innocence.
a lot of times in the courtroom if the LEO's testimony doesnt match the defendants, the defendant is SOL. So he's here for advice and help in regards to defending himself and not being charged with something he did not do. At only 17, he probably does not have a whole lot of experience in this region, but others on here who are old than him and/or have been in a courtroom can give him some help so he doesnt get buttfukced.


how much courtroom experience and knowledge does a 17 year old have? He may be guiltless & end up been found guilty because of how he goes about this.



What experience? Experience in violating the law and getting away with it? The only courtroom experience he should seek in this matter is how to answer for his crimes.

sir, i'm sure now that you understand that the OP is in a dilemma, please try to help him if you have knowledge in this matter beyond what has already been posted. :)

chubbyranger
06-06-08, 11:18 PM
Whether the OP is or is not guilty cannot be decided by any of the sages of these boards despite our lofty collection of wisdom and experience - we weren't there. Based on the seemingly outdated premise of innocent until proven guilty it is necessary to believe kd's assertion that he has been falsely accused. We can choose to either offer him advice or not, but to judge his actions based on his words violates the intentions of the founding fathers. I have gone to court and beaten speeding tickets. I was speeding, but I dressed well and used terms like multipath interference and beam pattern obstruction caused by doppler distortion. I have also paid tickets where there was no point in contesting it because I was a tourist and considered it another contribution to the struggling Florida economy. Everyone picks their battles. We'd all like to see the backwards baseball cap little bastard in the neon rice-kabob fart can who cut us off on the way to the market strung up alongside the road as a lesson to others, but that damn constitution thing gets in the way again. kd's respect (or lack thereof) for law enforcement may not be consistent with our expectations, but there's that stupid free speech thing too. Assuming all 17-year-olds are that little SOB ricer pilot is the fundamental error in judgement. There's got to be at least 6 to 7 law-abiding teenagers in the entire country and maybe kd is one of them. Staring through my laptop from the comfort of my recliner I sure as heck can't tell - can you?

thebigjimsho
06-07-08, 05:16 AM
The government make money? My God, how dare they?!Which is why IF I do get pulled over, I rake the system over the coals to make sure I get exonerated and they lose money. If everyone did that, the sham would go away.

93DevilleUSMC
06-07-08, 05:22 AM
Which is why IF I do get pulled over, I rake the system over the coals to make sure I get exonerated and they lose money. If everyone did that, the sham would go away.

See, this whole train of thought assumes that you have a right to any reckless speed that you wish to travel, and the the government should just wait until after you kill someone else or yourself to clean up the mess.

93DevilleUSMC
06-07-08, 05:26 AM
he's on here trying to find out how he can prove his innocence.
a lot of times in the courtroom if the LEO's testimony doesnt match the defendants, the defendant is SOL. So he's here for advice and help in regards to defending himself and not being charged with something he did not do. At only 17, he probably does not have a whole lot of experience in this region, but others on here who are old than him and/or have been in a courtroom can give him some help so he doesnt get buttfukced.






sir, i'm sure now that you understand that the OP is in a dilemma, please try to help him if you have knowledge in this matter beyond what has already been posted. :)


The OP is not getting butt screwed, as you put it. We don't owe him any help, especially after he comes on here calling police officers pigs just because they wrote him a ticket.

thebigjimsho
06-07-08, 01:43 PM
See, this whole train of thought assumes that you have a right to any reckless speed that you wish to travel, and the the government should just wait until after you kill someone else or yourself to clean up the mess.Tell you what, when you learn to read and remember everything I've said in this thread, then maybe I'll dignify this post with a response. Until then, get a clue...

I've been very clear. Your robotic, 1 size fits all argument is a joke and is ignorant.

the cadillac kid
06-07-08, 01:50 PM
:horse:

Submariner409
06-07-08, 02:25 PM
To twist the thread a bit and show what can happen when you don't care about speed in the wrong time and place, go to Foxnews.com and surf the home page for the video camera story on the 2 street racers in Hartford, Connecticut who just ran down a 78 year old man carrying milk, sped off, cars keep swerving around the critically crippled pedestrian, and people on the sidewalk just keep on walking. Really pathetic.

the cadillac kid
06-07-08, 02:35 PM
To twist the thread a bit and show what can happen when you don't care about speed in the wrong time and place, go to Foxnews.com and surf the home page for the video camera story on the 2 street racers in Hartford, Connecticut who just ran down a 78 year old man carrying milk, sped off, cars keep swerving around the critically crippled pedestrian, and people on the sidewalk just keep on walking. Really pathetic.

i'm guessing they werent doing 75 in a 65mph zone.
in which case they were being reckless.

just went & checked out the story, it wasnt on a highway, it was during the day in town on the wrong side of the road... that is no were near comparable to someone doing 80 in a 70mph zone in the left lane of the interstate.

this is the link, right, Sub? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,364269,00.html



*edit*
and yes, it is awful that people just stood there and left the man alone in the street & didnt try to get him out of the street or stop traffic or anything. :nono:

dwight.j.carter
06-07-08, 02:45 PM
what's worse is he was 78 and is now paralyzed from the neck down.

Submariner409
06-07-08, 02:58 PM
I think I mentioned "in Hartford...", "street racing", "people on sidewalk"............"cars sped off"...........

Doesn't much sound like a superhighway, does it ????

......but then again, according to Bob Dylan: "In Jersey anything is legal as long as you don't get caught........." (from "Tweeter and The Monkey Man" in Traveling Wilburys with Jeff Lynne, Tom Petty, Roy Orbison and George Harrison. Great album with drop-dead sonic work. Orbison's last recordings.)

thebigjimsho
06-07-08, 06:18 PM
...go to Foxnews.com and surf the home page for the video camera story on the 2 street racers in Hartford, Connecticut who just ran down a 78 year old man carrying milk, sped off, cars keep swerving around the critically crippled pedestrian, and people on the sidewalk just keep on walking. Really pathetic.Agreed! Disgusting...



To twist the thread a bit and show what can happen when you don't care about speed in the wrong time and place...I would hope you aren't lumping my argument on responsible speeding in with this...

dkozloski
06-07-08, 07:11 PM
There used to be a reasonable and prudent law in Oregon. A guy got dragged into court for doing 120MPH in his Ferrari. The cop reported that the weather was good and there was little traffic. The Judge said that it looked to him like a fine car on a clear road on a nice day. Case dismissed.
For many years the observation of the truckers was that if you got a ticket in Oregon you asked for it. The same could be said for many of the western states. I drove across the west in the '60s with the speedometer of my Pontiac pinned for mile after mile and never got looked at twice by a trooper.
In Alaska I've had a trooper go right on by me when I was doing 100MPH+ and all he did was nod his head as he passed. Life was simpler back when people could be trusted to have some judgement.

the cadillac kid
06-07-08, 07:27 PM
There used to be a reasonable and prudent law in Oregon. A guy got dragged into court for doing 120MPH in his Ferrari. The cop reported that the weather was good and there was little traffic. The Judge said that it looked to him like a fine car on a clear road on a nice day. Case dismissed.
For many years the observation of the truckers was that if you got a ticket in Oregon you asked for it. The same could be said for many of the western states. I drove across the west in the '60s with the speedometer of my Pontiac pinned for mile after mile and never got looked at twice by a trooper.
In Alaska I've had a trooper go right on by me when I was doing 100MPH+ and all he did was nod his head as he passed. Life was simpler back when people could be trusted to have some judgement.

:worship::worship:
thats the kind of system i would like to see.

93DevilleUSMC
06-07-08, 07:30 PM
Tell you what, when you learn to read and remember everything I've said in this thread, then maybe I'll dignify this post with a response. Until then, get a clue...

I've been very clear. Your robotic, 1 size fits all argument is a joke and is ignorant.

I'll tell you what; you go take some Criminal Justice classes, instead of rationalizing reckless behavior and inventing government conspiracies, and we will see who is ignorant. If anything, your post would be the robotic ones here, not mine.

MauiV
06-07-08, 09:07 PM
Let me guess.

A Marine MP trying his hardest to be Barny Fife on the local force?

Im related to one of those.

dwight.j.carter
06-07-08, 09:53 PM
I wish this topic would just go away !

dkozloski
06-07-08, 10:02 PM
It's way too much fun to see some people squirm.

93DevilleUSMC
06-07-08, 11:53 PM
Let me guess.

A Marine MP trying his hardest to be Barny Fife on the local force?

Im related to one of those.

Actually, I'm out because of an injury, so my next intended career track is law enforcement as soon as I finish my Associates this summer. No, I was never an MP.

MauiV
06-08-08, 05:20 PM
Actually, I'm out because of an injury, so my next intended career track is law enforcement as soon as I finish my Associates this summer. No, I was never an MP.

Close enough.

93DevilleUSMC
06-08-08, 05:34 PM
Close enough.

But no cigar.

dkozloski
06-08-08, 09:05 PM
In the Navy/Marine Corps it's called Shore Patrol and everybody does it sooner or later, E-4 and above.

MauiV
06-08-08, 10:07 PM
<<<Got out as an E5 and was never once on the Shore Patrol or Auxiliary Security Force. I was the drunk at Mardi Gras, not the baby sitter (plus I always took leave those 2 weeks).

BTW USMC MOS 8511 is Military Police, not Shore Patrol.

ilikecru
06-08-08, 10:53 PM
Call obstruction all you want. But if you don't have verified evidence of pulling me over, I'm not getting points. As for slowing down to make my rates go down, I can't. I'm a ZERO step. Which means they are as low as can be.

I'll just keep doing what I'm doing, thanks.


Man......gone for a few days and.................:bonkers:

My friend, I think you have a few things confused here, or........

I am just not understanding you properly.

Allow me to retort....

I don't NEED evidence of a crime to stop you.

I just need reasonable articuable suspection... (Sorry, I admit my spelling really sucks)..

That is the lowest we can stop for...

We can also stop if we have Probable Cause.

That is a slightly higher "bar", if you will...

You see, long ago a traffic stop was considerered a seizure for 4th Admend. purposes. That means that it must not be UNREASONABLE.

So, what determines UNREASONABLE ?

Usually a suspression Judge during a suppression hearing.

Now, you come to Court and bring what you have. I will come to Court with what I have.

Any Judge can rule either way. But, if I lose, your correct, you don't get the points.

But, if I WIN, then what? Are you willing to take that "gamble" just to speed?

Just because I lost doesn't mean the act didn't happen. It just means that the State failed to meet the burden (beyond a reasonable doubt).

Also, what do you thing is going to happen if you are found not guilty? Do you think they are going to hand over your "jammer" back to you in Court? Don't think so..

Just like they don't give back drugs or guns taken from criminals that are suppressed.

And, exactly how much are you going to pay some Lawyer to come represent you in Court? $1500.00....$2500.00.... $5000.00 .......??

Wouldn't that end up costing you more than if your rates actually went up for speeding tickets?

Let me put this another way :

Suppose I stop you for speeding (and for this story we both agree you were speeding).

I walk up to the car and I smell what I BELIEVE is "weed" burning in your car.

Now, ( and I don't know you) suppose that you have NEVER ( and you may NOT HAVE) EVER smoked "weed" your entire life. Never came into contact with it, don't know anyone who does smoke it, and for this story, lets just say that there is no way that its "weed" smoke I am smelling.

And I want to search your car...

Can I?

What happens if you object? Can I do it anyway?

The answer is.................................YES............ ..............

And I don't need your permission and if you try and stop me YOU WILL BE ARRESTED ..... PERIOD..........

Its called a Probable Cause Search and the US Supreme Court has ruled it is allowed to occur....

Now, lets say you do object, and you end up getting "locked-up".

BUT.....................UH OH...............................

I don't find ANY "weed" in your vehicle, or on you, or anything linking you to smoking "weed"..

Is my arrest still valid?

YUP.................

Will it stand up in Court?

YUP.......................

Cause I have done it......

Probable Cause does not equal Conviction.... It equals Probable Cause....

Not finding any evidence of a crime when I have Probable Cause to search DOES NOT.....Thats DOES NOT..... INVALIDATE MY SEARCH...

Nor does it subject me, my department, or anyone else to civil tort (i.e. lawsuit).

As long as I am not acting without malicious intent ( intending to do harm or to injure), then I am immune from honest mistakes.

And the burden to prove I was malicious is on YOU, not me if you try and sue me....


You seem like a fairly bright individual who understands alot of things.

I would urge you to read up on US Supreme Court Rulings concerning searches, stops, Probable Cause and the like.

Officer's are given a wide latidude and leaway when it comes to HONEST mistakes.

That DOES NOT MEAN WE CAN TRAMPLE PEOPLE'S RIGHTS...

It means, that if we are acting within the scope and intention of the law, and we mistakely "cross-over-the-line" with no malicious intent, we are pretty much immune.

Its a fairly "Bright-Line" the Court's have set down.

I think that from what we have discussed, I have enough...

A Judge and a Jury will eventually have the final say.

Either way, your out the $ for the "Jammer" and maybe somemore $ for a good Lawyer. Not to mention, the time you have to take from your busy work day to come to Court.

Is it really worth THAT much hassle just to try and go around speeding?

Cause if you lose, you might up in JAIL .......

Krashed989
06-09-08, 12:26 AM
To twist the thread a bit and show what can happen when you don't care about speed in the wrong time and place, go to Foxnews.com and surf the home page for the video camera story on the 2 street racers in Hartford, Connecticut who just ran down a 78 year old man carrying milk, sped off, cars keep swerving around the critically crippled pedestrian, and people on the sidewalk just keep on walking. Really pathetic.

Wow... That's a really horrible video.

Believe it or not, they actually did the right thing by not touching the guy. Chances are that the guys back or neck was broken and if they would have moved him in the wrong way, they could've done much more harm than good. I would've taken it a step further and Tried to direct traffic around him, or stop traffic but even that would be a risky maneuver; it would mean taking the risk of being hit by a car myself.

thebigjimsho
06-09-08, 12:32 AM
Man......gone for a few days and.................:bonkers:

My friend, I think you have a few things confused here, or........

I am just not understanding you properly.

Allow me to retort....

I don't NEED evidence of a crime to stop you.

I just need reasonable articuable suspection... (Sorry, I admit my spelling really sucks)..

That is the lowest we can stop for...

We can also stop if we have Probable Cause.

That is a slightly higher "bar", if you will...

You see, long ago a traffic stop was considerered a seizure for 4th Admend. purposes. That means that it must not be UNREASONABLE.

So, what determines UNREASONABLE ?

Usually a suspression Judge during a suppression hearing.

Now, you come to Court and bring what you have. I will come to Court with what I have.

Any Judge can rule either way. But, if I lose, your correct, you don't get the points.

But, if I WIN, then what? Are you willing to take that "gamble" just to speed?

Just because I lost doesn't mean the act didn't happen. It just means that the State failed to meet the burden (beyond a reasonable doubt).

Also, what do you thing is going to happen if you are found not guilty? Do you think they are going to hand over your "jammer" back to you in Court? Don't think so..

Just like they don't give back drugs or guns taken from criminals that are suppressed.

And, exactly how much are you going to pay some Lawyer to come represent you in Court? $1500.00....$2500.00.... $5000.00 .......??

Wouldn't that end up costing you more than if your rates actually went up for speeding tickets?

Let me put this another way :

Suppose I stop you for speeding (and for this story we both agree you were speeding).

I walk up to the car and I smell what I BELIEVE is "weed" burning in your car.

Now, ( and I don't know you) suppose that you have NEVER ( and you may NOT HAVE) EVER smoked "weed" your entire life. Never came into contact with it, don't know anyone who does smoke it, and for this story, lets just say that there is no way that its "weed" smoke I am smelling.

And I want to search your car...

Can I?

What happens if you object? Can I do it anyway?

The answer is.................................YES............ ..............

And I don't need your permission and if you try and stop me YOU WILL BE ARRESTED ..... PERIOD..........

Its called a Probable Cause Search and the US Supreme Court has ruled it is allowed to occur....

Now, lets say you do object, and you end up getting "locked-up".

BUT.....................UH OH...............................

I don't find ANY "weed" in your vehicle, or on you, or anything linking you to smoking "weed"..

Is my arrest still valid?

YUP.................

Will it stand up in Court?

YUP.......................

Cause I have done it......

Probable Cause does not equal Conviction.... It equals Probable Cause....

Not finding any evidence of a crime when I have Probable Cause to search DOES NOT.....Thats DOES NOT..... INVALIDATE MY SEARCH...

Nor does it subject me, my department, or anyone else to civil tort (i.e. lawsuit).

As long as I am not acting without malicious intent ( intending to do harm or to injure), then I am immune from honest mistakes.

And the burden to prove I was malicious is on YOU, not me if you try and sue me....


You seem like a fairly bright individual who understands alot of things.

I would urge you to read up on US Supreme Court Rulings concerning searches, stops, Probable Cause and the like.

Officer's are given a wide latidude and leaway when it comes to HONEST mistakes.

That DOES NOT MEAN WE CAN TRAMPLE PEOPLE'S RIGHTS...

It means, that if we are acting within the scope and intention of the law, and we mistakely "cross-over-the-line" with no malicious intent, we are pretty much immune.

Its a fairly "Bright-Line" the Court's have set down.

I think that from what we have discussed, I have enough...

A Judge and a Jury will eventually have the final say.

Either way, your out the $ for the "Jammer" and maybe somemore $ for a good Lawyer. Not to mention, the time you have to take from your busy work day to come to Court.

Is it really worth THAT much hassle just to try and go around speeding?

Cause if you lose, you might up in JAIL .......I know you don't need much to pull me over. And I don't care if you do. I have nothing to hide. I've never touched any illegal substances, never smoked a cigarette. As a professional driver, I never have more than 2 beers if I'm driving, and I never have alcohol if it's within 10 hours of me starting a shift. I keep my cars in tip top shape and everything is in working order unless a bulb happens to burn out while I'm out driving.

Your lemming buddies in this thread seem to think that because I speed, I must be a scofflaw and will break the law at will.

I don't agree with the speed limits of a lot of areas in this country. That doesn't mean I'm wreckless. Far from it. And you can try to write me up for other things. The obstruction argument may get me to court, but as long as the unit is not banned by the state I'm using it in, good luck getting any sort of conviction. If the state decides they want to outlaw jammers, then they will. Some already have. I'd like to see them try to keep something that's not outlawed.

As for you enjoying my losing valuable time in court, it's the other way around. You're not going to get me for anything other than speeding. If you do get me for speeding, hats off to you. But 80% of the time, the officer doesn't show in court. And it just cost more to go through the process than the state was hoping to bilk from me in the first place. I'm proud to waste my time to waste theirs. If everyone did that the world would be a more honest place...

ilikecru
06-09-08, 01:36 PM
I know you don't need much to pull me over. And I don't care if you do. I have nothing to hide. I've never touched any illegal substances, never smoked a cigarette. As a professional driver, I never have more than 2 beers if I'm driving, and I never have alcohol if it's within 10 hours of me starting a shift. I keep my cars in tip top shape and everything is in working order unless a bulb happens to burn out while I'm out driving.

Your lemming buddies in this thread seem to think that because I speed, I must be a scofflaw and will break the law at will.

I don't agree with the speed limits of a lot of areas in this country. That doesn't mean I'm wreckless. Far from it. And you can try to write me up for other things. The obstruction argument may get me to court, but as long as the unit is not banned by the state I'm using it in, good luck getting any sort of conviction. If the state decides they want to outlaw jammers, then they will. Some already have. I'd like to see them try to keep something that's not outlawed.

As for you enjoying my losing valuable time in court, it's the other way around. You're not going to get me for anything other than speeding. If you do get me for speeding, hats off to you. But 80% of the time, the officer doesn't show in court. And it just cost more to go through the process than the state was hoping to bilk from me in the first place. I'm proud to waste my time to waste theirs. If everyone did that the world would be a more honest place...

Ok... I can see your point...

But.....

I don't think your a scofflaw....

And I think you are under the impression that thier has to be a law banning the jammer itself. Just because thier isn't something on the books that says, "No LiDAR jammmers" doesn't mean that to use them is illeagal.

Kinda like resisting arrest. What defines that here in Maryland exactly?

The law says you can't resist a lawful arrest. Period.

Well, what is resisting exactly? Does non-complaince without violence meet that level? How about just not placing your hands behind you when told to do so? Where is the line exactly?

There are many laws out there that are designed to encompass all sorts of conduct.

Like neglent driving. In MD, that means, driving in a careless and imprudent manner. Hmmmm......whats careless and imprudent?

Is running a stop sign careless? Sure, if you weren't paying attention. But wait, we already have a charge for running a stop sign.

So, can I give both? Sure....

Will it hold up in Court?.... Don't know... Never tried..

The point is, I just don't want you to think that because in your State they don't have anything that says "no Jammers" that it is still not against the law.

Again, anything that interferes with or obstructs a LEO from detecting or identifing a vehicle, lawfully attempting from trying to obtain that information, is 9 times out of 10 going to be illeagal.

Just like trying to obtain 2 different drivers licences in 2 different states.

I'm am going to ask alot of questions why you have tags in one state and a license in another. Uhhh... IRS only lets you declare one state, soo..

I'll just "run" you in all 50 states. Come up with two different licenses in two different states and your probabaly going to be arrested.

And that alone gives me probable cause to search the inside of your car (see New York v. Belton- US Supreme Court)..

Thank you for giving me the Probable Cause. No chance in a supression hearing now when I find the jammer....

As for not showing up for court, maybe where you are thats what happens. In my Department, you don't go to Court you are going to probably get suspeneded for a day or two. We have STRICT policies about attending Court and all Officers had better attend. Even if its your day off. Officer's will get overtime to go. Failure to attend without being excused will result in harsh punishment.

And I think its great that you don't smoke or drink and I have no doubt you are a professional driver. But, if you don't agree with the speed limits in this Country, attemping to thwart them by decepitive means or just flat out breaking them is not a very good attempt to change them in my opinion.

If you don't like them, go to your Statehouse and lobby to have them changed. Talk to your Reps., let them know how you feel. Go to hearings and speak about it. Do all you can to change them, but, in the meantime, obey them.

Reguardless of how you feel, YOU must still obey the law until its changed.

ilikecru
06-09-08, 01:50 PM
I have gone to court and beaten speeding tickets. I was speeding, but I dressed well and used terms like multipath interference and beam pattern obstruction caused by doppler distortion.


Multipath interference and beam pattern obstruction caused by Doppler distortion???

Which one of Christian Doppler's theories on Doppler Distortion are you talking about?

Doppler had more than ONE theory of the so called Doppler Effect.

When did you win on those?

Maybe years and years ago...

The Courts have long ago given Judicial Notice (meaning that the Court understands that the device is inhearently reliabile) to RADAR and LiDAR for awhile now....

I don't think with all the great electronic advancements that it would work in today's Court...

RADAR and LiDAR units do a great job of detecting this and either informing the operator ( via RF Light) or just shutting down....

Its really no longer an issue....

dwight.j.carter
06-09-08, 03:03 PM
This has gone on long enough. Just seeing this thread still on the main page makes me cringe lol.

thebigjimsho
06-09-08, 11:45 PM
Agreed. I've made my opinions and others have as well. I think we're to the point of running in circles proving points we've already made. I've enjoyed giving my point of view. Good day, people.

the cadillac kid
06-10-08, 12:02 AM
:wave:

93DevilleUSMC
06-10-08, 01:24 AM
I've already checked out of this, but I'll bow out now. Good debate, folks!

dwight.j.carter
06-10-08, 01:28 AM
I also had a great time but it's old now and my speeding tickets are in the past lol.

Playdrv4me
06-10-08, 01:29 AM
Ask and ye shall receive... Closed.