: STS spotted and checked out...



CTScop
06-02-04, 06:45 PM
I may not be the first, but I saw an STS yesterday at the local grocery store and went over and checked it out.

I got into my CTS and looked in my rearview mirror at a black CTS parked behind me. I thought the rims looked cool and looked harder. Then, I thought a "V"? because the front end looked little different with some mesh in the lower opening. Then I noticed the front facia looks smoother and stretched comapred to my CTS. I thought, "Is that the 2005 STS?" I got out and went over and sure enuff it was. And no manufacturer plate, but a reg passenger Mich plate.

After MUCH walking around and checking it out my impression and single word opinion is "why"? I mean, I was very excited about the STS when I saw the pics on the internet, and I was excited about the V8 option, which this one had (NORTHSTAR emblem on the rear end). But, I mean it looks ALOT like the CTS. I mean ALOT! I bet virtually anyone who is not a car-person will not be able to tell the difference unless they are next to each other.

I was hoping it would be a stand out appearance, but Cadillac already has one of these and its called the CTS. Why would they produce another vehicle that looks SO similar? I know it'll be more luxurious, with a nicer interior, etc..

My lease is up next year and I was thinking about the STS, but I cannot justify the price difference when I could get a CTS V for similar price to the STS V8. I was bummed.

MEJIA
06-02-04, 07:07 PM
I may not be the first, but I saw an STS yesterday at the local grocery store and went over and checked it out.

I got into my CTS and looked in my rearview mirror at a black CTS parked behind me. I thought the rims looked cool and looked harder. Then, I thought a "V"? because the front end looked little different with some mesh in the lower opening. Then I noticed the front facia looks smoother and stretched comapred to my CTS. I thought, "Is that the 2005 STS?" I got out and went over and sure enuff it was. And no manufacturer plate, but a reg passenger Mich plate.

After MUCH walking around and checking it out my impression and single word opinion is "why"? I mean, I was very excited about the STS when I saw the pics on the internet, and I was excited about the V8 option, which this one had (NORTHSTAR emblem on the rear end). But, I mean it looks ALOT like the CTS. I mean ALOT! I bet virtually anyone who is not a car-person will not be able to tell the difference unless they are next to each other.

I was hoping it would be a stand out appearance, but Cadillac already has one of these and its called the CTS. Why would they produce another vehicle that looks SO similar? I know it'll be more luxurious, with a nicer interior, etc..

My lease is up next year and I was thinking about the STS, but I cannot justify the price difference when I could get a CTS V for similar price to the STS V8. I was bummed.


You are right, when I first saw the new STS at the NYC Auto Show, all I was seeing was a stretched-out CTS. IMO and this is not the only case, car manufacturers always try to share platforms, and components (drivetrain, interior, exterior ect) to save on production costs. Look like Cadillac already has 3 Sigma-based models, CTS, STS and SRX. We will just have to wait on how the new STS sells.

Mejia

rueben44
06-03-04, 12:54 AM
Sorry but the STS is wider and longer. Aimed at a totally different customer than the CTS. No one will mistake it for a CTS anymore than they will mistake a C320 for a E320 or a A6 for an A4. When you pay more for the STS you are paying for content and that Cadillac gives you so I see no issues anyone should have with choosing a STS or a CTS if that is what they want.

Jetillac
06-03-04, 09:01 AM
Rueben... Of all the posts I have read about the '05 STS, (and believe me, I have ready plenty), that has to be one of the best. Excellent point. :2thumbs: The Audi A4-8 all look very similar, but you see A8's just as much as A4's and A6's. Same for Mercedes. Excellent point! :2thumbs:

b4z
06-03-04, 09:19 AM
I think the STS has an incredible profile. Especially with the 18" wheels.

You can see where Lutz messed with it though. Rounding off the sharp creases and especially how the trunk/rear fender edge is rounded off.
Some people have commented that they like the rearend.
I think that it does not look like Art and Science and looks too much like a last generation Cadillac.

I don't think I would ever mistake a STS for a CTS.
The grille is the tip off. It is wider and the it flares at the top.
Whereas the CTS grille sides are more vertical and perpendicular to the ground.
This is my biggest complaint with the CTS. It makes the car look narrower.
All Cadillac has to di is widen the grille by about 2" and the CTS wil have more presence.

Anyway, I like the STS a lot. More than the CTS. Which is too narrow looking.

rueben44
06-03-04, 02:16 PM
I don't have a problem with the width of the CTS but I see what you are saying and agree totally. I too think I could never get the two confused. They are totally different sizes and styled different. To each their own but I can clearly see the difference.

Vrocks
06-05-04, 03:08 AM
I agree in that there are alot of similarities between the CTS and STS. However I don't think it's a bad thing to have a consistent image and I think the slightly more rounded shape looks better.

CTScop
06-05-04, 07:30 PM
The Audi statement is valid. I hadn't thought of those similarities. I just had hoped it would be more of a stand-out compared to the CTS. Now that I know they're on the road, I doubt I'll be "fooled" by another STS. :rolleyes:

I will say the interior is fantastic. Very sophisticated, upclass. More what I'd expect from Cadillac. But I know the CTS was destined to be more of a performance minded ride vs luxury ride.

Anyway...my .02$.

Cheers!
:drinker

CTScop
06-05-04, 07:45 PM
Sorry but the STS is wider and longer. Aimed at a totally different customer than the CTS. No one will mistake it for a CTS anymore than they will mistake a C320 for a E320 or a A6 for an A4. When you pay more for the STS you are paying for content and that Cadillac gives you so I see no issues anyone should have with choosing a STS or a CTS if that is what they want.


But, unless you're a MB or Audi fan, you see one coming and don't know if its a $30K car or a $75K car unless you check out the numbers on the rearend. I'm not saying you drive a car so people know how much you spent and maybe thats the point. Who cares. You buy/lease and drive what you want, not so others know what you want. I do feel, and will profess that most people buy expensive cars for some amount of status. Come on, admit it! I know, I know, I'm gonna get flamed big time. :getaway: Further, and another thing.....aw thats enuff!

Cheers to all! :cheers:

me3head
06-06-04, 01:23 AM
I think that having a consistent look is important in their home markets, but not in the US. Over in europe most luxo cars are ordered badge-delete so noone knows how expensive your car is.

CTScop
06-06-04, 04:04 PM
I think that having a consistent look is important in their home markets, but not in the US. Over in europe most luxo cars are ordered badge-delete so noone knows how expensive your car is.

Really? Never heard of that. Interesting.

JBsZ06
06-06-04, 05:21 PM
I dig the CTS V series but the standard CTS and the new STS and even the SRX leave me cold.


I would hope the CTS V series comes with a six speed automatic or better yet a dual clutch sequential shifter. Would make a great daily driver.

The STS is in my opinion going to get smoked big time by the Chrysler 300C hemi at 33 to 38 grand loaded.

tdogg5184
06-06-04, 07:14 PM
I dont think the STS's has to worry about the 300c that is the least of its compition. The 300 is a lower market segment and has half the features and refinement of the STS. The STS has to worry about BMW, MB, Infiniti, and Acura. The luxery brands are its biggest problem not a chrysler.

highonchai
06-07-04, 01:12 PM
No way could a true caddy enthusiast mistake a CTS for an STS. I see them on the highway all the time here in Mich. and i can tell when theyre going the other way on the other side of the median. Of course a double-take is in order, but theyres no way. I do agree they look similar, but theyre all starting to. I love the STS almost as much as the SRX. great styling. when my moms lease on her Trail Blazer ends ill con her into getting one. Northstar, 4 wheel drive, oh yeah.

EgyptianQueen
06-07-04, 02:56 PM
I dig the CTS V series but the standard CTS and the new STS and even the SRX leave me cold.


I would hope the CTS V series comes with a six speed automatic or better yet a dual clutch sequential shifter. Would make a great daily driver.

The STS is in my opinion going to get smoked big time by the Chrysler 300C hemi at 33 to 38 grand loaded.
I'm sorry: was that Chrysler in the same sentence as Cadillac? Dude, give me a break! :tisk: Sure the new 300 (m is no longer in the model name) will have a Hemi, but who wants to drive a brand car from Chrysler, reigning champion of the mini-van revival? :hmm: Cadillac has everything, BUT a mini-van. We see that Celine Dion didn't do much for the brand and neither will a 300 with a Hemi.:lildevil:

CTScop
06-07-04, 07:23 PM
No way could a true caddy enthusiast mistake a CTS for an STS. I see them on the highway all the time here in Mich. and i can tell when theyre going the other way on the other side of the median. Of course a double-take is in order, but theyres no way. I do agree they look similar, but theyre all starting to. I love the STS almost as much as the SRX. great styling. when my moms lease on her Trail Blazer ends ill con her into getting one. Northstar, 4 wheel drive, oh yeah.


Oh well, I guess I'm not a "true Cadillac enthusiast"! :rolleyes2 Just kidding.

As for the 300C, I feel it will be a BIG seller. Will it rob from Cadillac? Too early to tell. But with a loaded 300C running in the mid 30s, and loaed with alot of amenities, despite what others state, it'll sell well. And the mystique of the "HEMI" won't hurt at all. Even if you don't care about the "HEMI" nameplate, many do. Now if they are prospective Caddy buyers, I don't know. Probablt not would be my guess. But clearly Cadillac has increased sales not from selling previous Cadillac owners on the new styles, but drawing from other previously-non-Cadillac-buying segment due to style, performance, etc..

We'll see.

Caddy Man
06-07-04, 07:54 PM
I'm sorry: was that Chrysler in the same sentence as Cadillac? Dude, give me a break! :tisk: Sure the new 300 (m is no longer in the model name) will have a Hemi, but who wants to drive a brand car from Chrysler, reigning champion of the mini-van revival? :hmm: Cadillac has everything, BUT a mini-van. We see that Celine Dion didn't do much for the brand and neither will a 300 with a Hemi.:lildevil:
Well i will tell you who wants to drive it...MANY people i kno love the look of that car, they dont sit there analyzing chrylser...they like the car, and i agree with them, it looks great, its powerful and cheap priced. Its not always about brands...if u wanted to do that then why would anyone drive a caddy these days after all those crappy FWD cars they put out in teh early 90s? Image changes, sometimes good and sometimes bad. The 300 will do a lot and right now its getting very popular, its hard to say cuz its so early right now if its gonna bring them up, but for now the 300C seems to be a very popular and high demand car. :rolleyes2 the people who want it are ones that want a luxurious look, statley stance, powerful engine, and belive me the car is a head turner for sure..all for 35k. Just the fact the price is so low it will be a big seller, not everyone can afford to fork over 50gs for a caddy.

Brett
06-07-04, 08:59 PM
All i read lately is how the 300C is gonna take sales from Cadillac,BMW, MB, etc. well, 340 hp and ~33k is nice, but how about reliability, resale, etc. i have plenty of friends with benz's that are constantly in the shop. my neighbors S55 has left his house on a flat bed 3 times since he owned it. What does this all mean....well, i gotta wonder how good a chrysler is gonna be, if MB cant keep their flagship brand together.

It takes more than horsepower to be world class. People buy underpowered 3 and 5 series BMW's all the time.

EgyptianQueen
06-08-04, 10:49 AM
Well i will tell you who wants to drive it...MANY people i kno love the look of that car, they dont sit there analyzing chrylser...they like the car, and i agree with them, it looks great, its powerful and cheap priced. Its not always about brands...if u wanted to do that then why would anyone drive a caddy these days after all those crappy FWD cars they put out in teh early 90s? Just the fact the price is so low it will be a big seller, not everyone can afford to fork over 50gs for a caddy.
:lildevil: I have to play devil's advocate. If everyone was meant to drive a Caddy, then I am sure they all would. But what is the point of having a vehicle that looks great has a mesh interior and an engine that is powerful, if everyone in the neighborhood has one? It is call exclusivity! Maybe I am wrong for wanting to stand out. I did not say I did not like the car. I agree that it has a nice look to it and could be a contender... if it was not so cheap!

CTScop
06-08-04, 05:24 PM
Not to start another issue/arguement but.....where do you live? You can't swing a dead cat here in Merto-Detroit without hitting a CTS owner! As for Devilles and Sevilles...there EVERYWHERE! Yes, I know it's cause its the motor city, but again, I didn't get a CTS to be unique. I got it cause the styling and performance, not to mention ride, are all first class in my opinion.

Caddy Man
06-09-04, 11:23 AM
Not to start another issue/arguement but.....where do you live? You can't swing a dead cat here in Merto-Detroit without hitting a CTS owner! As for Devilles and Sevilles...there EVERYWHERE! Yes, I know it's cause its the motor city, but again, I didn't get a CTS to be unique. I got it cause the styling and performance, not to mention ride, are all first class in my opinion.
i totally agree....i see cadillacs on top of cadillacs in detroit!!! escalades, EXTS,s CTS, deville, seville....EVERYWHERE. After all, we are the home of cadillac arent we? :)

mrtracey
07-09-04, 08:46 AM
Hello there folks!!! This is my first time posting on this site but I've been lurking around and reading some of the post about the STS. My viewpoint is that the STS is definitely a stretched version of the CTS but for some crazy reason it looks alot better and fits more of the Cadillac profile. I remember it taking me a long time for the CTS looks to grow on me, not because it was an ugly vehicle, but because it was smallish and nimble. The STS takes the CTS great looks and adds length and width and gives me the image of what I've always knew Cadillac to be, a premimum-sized vehicle. The distinguished difference in the vehicles will be the STS's interior (from what I've seen so far) and that alone will be worth the premium in its price. Last time I checked, one spends more time in a vehicle then outside of it -- even though looks can be appealing, I rather have the better comfort and ride -- and when the STS makes into the showroom this Fall I will be more than interested to see if the STS excels and exceeds the CTS in those areas. If it has, than Cadillac has improved upon an already great start. If it hasn't than its all been a waste and then we can ask "why." The BMW 3 and 5 series aren't quite yet the most attractive cars out there either, but they've got a great track record for performance, handling, ride and reliability somewhat (that can be very argumentative these days) and thats why they are constantly ranked best in their class. I'll willing to wait to see if the STS is gonna be a winner.:)

mrtracey
07-09-04, 09:03 AM
Oh well, I guess I'm not a "true Cadillac enthusiast"! :rolleyes2 Just kidding.

As for the 300C, I feel it will be a BIG seller. Will it rob from Cadillac? Too early to tell. But with a loaded 300C running in the mid 30s, and loaed with alot of amenities, despite what others state, it'll sell well. And the mystique of the "HEMI" won't hurt at all. Even if you don't care about the "HEMI" nameplate, many do. Now if they are prospective Caddy buyers, I don't know. Probablt not would be my guess. But clearly Cadillac has increased sales not from selling previous Cadillac owners on the new styles, but drawing from other previously-non-Cadillac-buying segment due to style, performance, etc..

We'll see.
It's very interested that the 300C gets a mention here because its the first Chrysler that I've considered buying, despite its bad reputation for reliability, but the stigma of it having a "hemi" does wonders for the brand. Not too long ago a neighbor of mine traded in his STS (98' or better model) for a prior-to-2005 Chrysler touring model. Those were the days before Chrysler even thought of adding a "Hemi" back to its 300 line. So it will be interesting enough to see how this plays out and to see if Chrysler will gain some of Cadillac's customers, even though these cars serve a different demographic (Cadillac being a luxury car-maker and Chrysler being a premium car-maker). Some consumers are very dollar-for-dollar conscientious and not so much brand-loyal anymore (read: Hyundai and Kia sales). With that said the Chrysler doesn't fall too much behind Cadillac. Engine wise the they are pretty much on par and the Chrysler 300C has created some funk in the handling dept, we just have to see how reliable it is. If Chrysler can restore on that image they've got a pretty competitive ball-player. Atleast I think so.

mrtracey
07-09-04, 09:19 AM
:lildevil: I have to play devil's advocate. If everyone was meant to drive a Caddy, then I am sure they all would. But what is the point of having a vehicle that looks great has a mesh interior and an engine that is powerful, if everyone in the neighborhood has one? It is call exclusivity! Maybe I am wrong for wanting to stand out. I did not say I did not like the car. I agree that it has a nice look to it and could be a contender... if it was not so cheap!

Not be offensive but spending $33-$38,000 on a vehicle is still not cheap, now its no $50,000 Caddy, yeah, but many other great entry-level luxury cars can be had for that price as well. To name a few is the new Acura TL, BMW 3 series, Infiniti G35, MB C240 (with nothing in it) and Lexus ES330. Yes you are getting alot of car for the money with the 300C versus the aforementioned nameplates but thats still alot of cheddar. From what I've seen in my area (Metro New York City) are alot of 300's but not too many 300'C's. Simply because that price range is hard for some people to get financed for and 33-38k is a substantial amount of money for folks to come up with for a new vehicle in cash. I don't know what banks you've dealt with in the past, but to get financed for a vehicle around $40k (once u add in taxes and fees) takes fair to good credit and a little bit more than a decent job.:)

Smokey
07-09-04, 03:45 PM
I was talking to a friend who works at our local Chrysler dealer and he said they cannot keep the 300C in stock. They sell everyone they get almost before it hits the lot. They are actually taking orders and have none to demo. He also said they are having problems getting the Magnum with the HEMI in it as well. It seems the demand is far exceeding the supply, at least in Eastern Texas.

gman89
07-09-04, 08:17 PM
The problem with the CTS is that any schlub (I don't think I spelled that right) can lease one for less than $300 a month. Kills the exclusivity of owning a new Caddy.

Anybody see the new $98,000 Volkswagen Phaeton W12? The car is absolutely awesome, but that's a lot of cash for a car with a VW logo plastered on the grille.

Mikethegreeat
07-10-04, 05:28 AM
I may not be the first, but I saw an STS yesterday at the local grocery store and went over and checked it out.

I got into my CTS and looked in my rearview mirror at a black CTS parked behind me. I thought the rims looked cool and looked harder. Then, I thought a "V"? because the front end looked little different with some mesh in the lower opening. Then I noticed the front facia looks smoother and stretched comapred to my CTS. I thought, "Is that the 2005 STS?" I got out and went over and sure enuff it was. And no manufacturer plate, but a reg passenger Mich plate.

After MUCH walking around and checking it out my impression and single word opinion is "why"? I mean, I was very excited about the STS when I saw the pics on the internet, and I was excited about the V8 option, which this one had (NORTHSTAR emblem on the rear end). But, I mean it looks ALOT like the CTS. I mean ALOT! I bet virtually anyone who is not a car-person will not be able to tell the difference unless they are next to each other.

I was hoping it would be a stand out appearance, but Cadillac already has one of these and its called the CTS. Why would they produce another vehicle that looks SO similar? I know it'll be more luxurious, with a nicer interior, etc..

My lease is up next year and I was thinking about the STS, but I cannot justify the price difference when I could get a CTS V for similar price to the STS V8. I was bummed.

It's called brand identity...you just cant understand this because we were use to seeing this in foreign brands only...now that cadillac desides to do the right thing... you complain?? I understand your just speaking your mind, but try to understand the concept

Heres a good example:

Acura TSX
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/wheels/img/apr03/acurabig042503.jpg

two different models, from the same make

Acura TL
http://images.automotive.com/reviews/images/04-tl-hero.jpg

I rest my case your honor
:D

Jesda
07-10-04, 07:50 AM
The 300/300C has a character all its own. People who never drive/own sedans, domestics, or Chryslers have lined up to have one. It created a niche for itself.

-Jesda

me3head
07-12-04, 03:22 PM
I saw an STS with Aluminum trim and no Navi at the movies this weekend. It looked OK, but I'd like to see it with Navi.

I do think that the Alu trim should be optional on all models for a sporty look. Or carbon fiber.

megeebee
07-12-04, 04:53 PM
It's called brand identity...you just cant understand this because we were use to seeing this in foreign brands only...now that cadillac desides to do the right thing... you complain?? I understand your just speaking your mind, but try to understand the concept

Heres a good example:

Acura TSX
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/wheels/img/apr03/acurabig042503.jpg

two different models, from the same make

Acura TL
http://images.automotive.com/reviews/images/04-tl-hero.jpg

I rest my case your honor
:DI AGREE. The re-establishment of a Cadillac identity is very important. I think it would be very difficult indeed to find the owner of, say, a Mercedes C class who thinks that the S class looks too much like the C and therefore he won't buy one ! In the post-war era until the 70's, with very few exceptions, all Cadillacs shared all or most of thier sheet metal and drive trains. They bore a highly recognizable face. There was no mistaking they were Cadillacs.

Also, mikethegreat, I like your selection of the Acuras to illustrate your point. Can anyone look at these two new designs and say that the Evoq and CTS weren't strong influences?