Is there supposed to be a slight delay in throttle response during low RPM/speed travel? I notice it in my DI, and find it pretty annoying.

If I'm running 50+ MPH and kick down the gas the response is immidiate. I'm only seeing this in lower speed/RPM ranges.

I believe we all have this. Seems it comes with "Throttle by wire". Had the sme hesitation in a corvette when they went to non-linkage. You will get used to it.:yup:

Is there supposed to be a slight delay in throttle response during low RPM/speed travel? I notice it in my DI, and find it pretty annoying.

If I'm running 50+ MPH and kick down the gas the response is immidiate. I'm only seeing this in lower speed/RPM ranges.

Mine does the same at low speed you tap the peddle and nothing happens.

And yet we have another thread where the folks are saying that at 50+ MPH, when they it the gas, the car almost stalls and then catches. They have all decided that that is normal too.

I have noticed no hesitation on mine, so do not believe it has anything to do with drive by wire.
After all, that should be done in a few milliseconds. And that should be not detectable by the average driver.

It is intentional, I cannot remember if it is documented in the owner's manual or in the promotional literature but it is designed to make control smoother at low speeds. I had another vehicle with electronic control without the variable algorithm and it was annoying when hitting bumps at low speeds as it made it difficult to keep the power level where you wanted it.

I've experienced a "stall" (just long enough to think that the engine has died before full power kicks in) on several occasions during a DECELERATION (foot off accelerator, sometimes foot on brake) to ACCELERATION (stomp accelerator) sequence - e.g., when approaching a slow moving vehicle and changing lanes to pass or when turning left onto a side street, in the presence of oncoming traffic.

928S,

I haven't noticed this behavior on my CTS (DI, RWD, FE2) and I have had to do this sort of maneuver several times recently due to slow moving agricultural traffic. My CTS was produced in early May so I wonder if there have been any software updates since your CTS was produced? I am very familiar with this type of behavior as it definitely got my attention shortly after I bought my '06 pickup and pulled out to pass on a 2 lane highway. At around 52 the pickup shifts into 2'nd overdrive and will stay there down to around 45 and when you suddenly go to full throttle at this point there is a perceptible delay before there is a downshift and fuel flow is increased. I have always assumed that this was probably due to the need to protect the transmission during shifts (the Allison automatic also uses computer controlled clutch to clutch architecture) and perhaps partially due to turbo lag and if you either switch to manual mode and select a lower gear or change to tow/haul mode which is the equivalent of sport mode for the Allison then there is no delay and full engine power is available immediately. In any case, once the rain goes away I will see if I can get my CTS to mimic this behavior and I will post back if it does.

Does selecting sport mode on your CTS make any difference with the delay?

Does selecting sport mode on your CTS make any difference with the delay?

Good question! I haven't tried sport mode under such circumstances, but now I'm anxious to find out. If I survive, I'll post the answer.

Sport mode is what I drive in most often.

Where can you find service bulletins on the CTS?

Not real happy with this 'side effect'--everything else about the car and my experience is stellar.

I have been after my dealer to do something about the delay in accelerating, they and Caddy say it is normal and there is no fix in the works. Blows my mind that all those professional reviewers didn't come across this problem. I have had close calls with other cars and trucks, when I have needed to get going, and nothing happened ( live in Boston area ). To me this is a major safety issue that shouldn't be on a 300+ HP car costing close to $50K. I have never had a car do this, from my first '77 AMC Hornet Wagon, to my most recent '05 SRX. Hope there doesn't need to be a bunch of wrecks before Caddy fixes this. Wishing I never bought this car!

The major share of the delay occurs when the transmission downshifts and synchronizes engine speed with the new gear ratio much like an experienced driver blips the throttle in neutral when down shifting a manual transmission. It feels like the car is falling on its face when you punch it. It's normal and is a result of the laws of physics.

i posted the following many moons ago, when cadillac first introduced the di version of the 3.6...it bears repeating: di engines (gasoline type engines) have been around since atleast the 80's...mitsubishi had a 4 cylinder motor that they could not get certified for use in the us due to surging and other driveability problems, not to mention it couldn't pass the emmissions requirments. it was only with the advent of the electronic digital engine managament controls that allowed di to be used and certified for passenger vehicles.

also, the power delivery of a di engine is different than the port injected version...even though the di engine makes more power it still must deal with the inherent problems of directly introducing the fuel into the combustion chamber. some posts have mentioned the drive by wire as part of the problem: even though the mini computer in the dbw circuit has the final say as to how much throttle input it will alllow, remember that the pi version doesn't have the uneven power delivery...when lexus introduced their version of the v6 3.5 direct injected motor, they utilized both port injectors and c/c injectors, i suspect that this design helps to mitigate the problems with direct injection. there's very little that the dealers can do with this problem.

just some food for thought...


jackg
06 sts6

The major share of the delay occurs when the transmission downshifts and synchronizes engine speed with the new gear ratio much like an experienced driver blips the throttle in neutral when down shifting a manual transmission. It feels like the car is falling on its face when you punch it. It's normal and is a result of the laws of physics.

Pardon, my bluntness, but that's a bullshit answer. I've been driving since 1968 and have owned many cars with automatic transmissions. The CTS is the worst in this regard by a wide margin. In fact, come down to my house and I'll take you for a ride in my wifes 2008 CX9 Mazda. It has similar power and transmission, and its far more refined and responsive than the CTS.

I agree with the OP - its very annoying in the CTS.

i posted the following many moons ago, when cadillac first introduced the di version of the 3.6...it bears repeating: di engines (gasoline type engines) have been around since atleast the 80's...mitsubishi had a 4 cylinder motor that they could not get certified for use in the us due to surging and other driveability problems, not to mention it couldn't pass the emmissions requirments. it was only with the advent of the electronic digital engine managament controls that allowed di to be used and certified for passenger vehicles.

also, the power delivery of a di engine is different than the port injected version...even though the di engine makes more power it still must deal with the inherent problems of directly introducing the fuel into the combustion chamber. some posts have mentioned the drive by wire as part of the problem: even though the mini computer in the dbw circuit has the final say as to how much throttle input it will alllow, remember that the pi version doesn't have the uneven power delivery...when lexus introduced their version of the v6 3.5 direct injected motor, they utilized both port injectors and c/c injectors, i suspect that this design helps to mitigate the problems with direct injection. there's very little that the dealers can do with this problem.

just some food for thought...


jackg
06 sts6

I'm willing on accepting what you are saying is correct, what I'm not willing on accepting is why Cadillac put it in the car if they can make it refined. They should have put the Northstar V8 in it. That engine is very refined, has about the same (or more) power. Heck, I've driven many Northstar DTS's that even got at least as good fuel economy as my CTS.

Pardon, my bluntness, but that's a bullshit answer. I've been driving since 1968 and have owned many cars with automatic transmissions. The CTS is the worst in this regard by a wide margin. In fact, come down to my house and I'll take you for a ride in my wifes 2008 CX9 Mazda. It has similar power and transmission, and its far more refined and responsive than the CTS.

I agree with the OP - its very annoying in the CTS.
Have your CTS cruising along at 20MPH and punch it. If it doesn't pause to downshift a couple of gears before taking off, I'll kiss your ass and give you ten minutes to draw a crowd.

Just a note of (perhaps) interest: I have a '08 DTS Performance with drive-by-wire and it exhibits the same symptoms as the you are describing for the CTS. My owners manual says the algorithm is designed for smooth throttle response at slow speeds. But the perception is that there's a second or two numbing in throttle response. Yet, as you describe, at 50+, response is instantaneous. Sounds to me like it's intentional (though perhaps more logical to put in the DTS than the CTS).

Have your CTS cruising along at 20MPH and punch it. If it doesn't pause to downshift a couple of gears before taking off, I'll kiss your ass and give you ten minutes to draw a crowd.

Yes, I understand that. What part of my thread confused you? That was exactly my point. The CTS pause is much worse than the typical vehicle, including our CX9. The post I quoted says it's normal - it's not!

I'm not saying other vehicles don't do it at all - some due to a point. But there is no contest comparing how bad the CTS sometimes pauses compared to others.

Yes, I understand that. What part of my thread confused you? That was exactly my point. The CTS pause is much worse than the typical vehicle, including our CX9. The post I quoted says it's normal - it's not!

I'm not saying other vehicles don't do it at all - some due to a point. But there is no contest comparing how bad the CTS sometimes pauses compared to others.
It's normal for a CTS.

After reading your initial post, I paid close attention this afternoon, driving in city traffic for over an hour. My car is also a "late 2008," built in mid-May (e.g., it has Bluetooth), so it also occurred to me that it may be slightly different from yours.

In any case, there was no noticeable hesitation when goosing the accelerator at low speeds, from 10 to 45 mph, except for a very slight delay (1/10th second or so) if the car had to downshift. Even that effect seemed somewhat less evident in Sport Mode, which I usually select.

FWIW, the 7-speed auto in my 2006 CLS500 was very similar.

Keep in mind that the trans is going through several gear changes to get you going faster at that speed.

Refinement is a matter of opinion. To me the engine and transmission are world class. The tranny in fact is so world class BMW uses it.

Refinement is a matter of opinion. To me the engine and transmission are world class. The tranny in fact is so world class BMW uses it.

I actually agree that refinement is somewhat subjective. But it leads me to wonder what other cars you've owned that you are comparing it to. I've owned 54 four wheel vehicles. Just my last three have been a M45 Infiniti, Acura TL and Infiniti G35. I've owned many other cars that I would consider entry level sports/luxury sedans. The CTS is not even close to the worst I've owned in refinement of the drivetrain. It's not even close to my wifes current CX9 Mazda.

Without even looking it up, I find it hard to fathom that BMW is using GMs six speed automatic. GM just came out with it in the Corvette and XLR Cadillac in 2006 as it's first application. If memory serves, GM & Ford jointly developed their six speed automatics - I don't remember which, but one of them took the lead on those to be used for front drive, the other for rear drive.

On the other hand, BMW has been using six speed automatics since before that. BMW introduced a six speed automatic in 2004. I think you'll find that GM did supply automatics to BMW previously, but not the six speed.

...the engine and transmission are world class. The tranny in fact is so world class BMW uses it.

I thought that German-made ZF Friedrichshafen AG supplied transmissions were used across the BMW model range, ever since their six-speed automatic was first introduced in 2001. As "jjsC6" said above, Ford and GM didn't even start their joint venture to develop six-speed automatic transmissions until a year later in 2002.

Since the intro of the 2nd gen CTS, I've seen lots of vague claims that GM supplies its 6-speed automatic transmission to BMW, but never from an authoritative source. Can anyone definitively confirm or deny it, once and for all?

Thanks.

Just a note of (perhaps) interest: I have a '08 DTS Performance with drive-by-wire and it exhibits the same symptoms as the you are describing for the CTS. My owners manual says the algorithm is designed for smooth throttle response at slow speeds. But the perception is that there's a second or two numbing in throttle response. Yet, as you describe, at 50+, response is instantaneous. Sounds to me like it's intentional (though perhaps more logical to put in the DTS than the CTS).


I have a 2006 DTS Performance Sedan.
I DO NOT have the pause that you are describing, (or at least I have not noticed it) unless it is the split second after you punch it, when it downshifts from 3rd to 1st.

But that is so quick that it is barely perceptible. At the same time it is downshifting, the RPM's are coming up and it does it really quick. :)

It then slams into first and starts slightly spinning the tires.

If you are on slick asphalt, it will be spinning enough that the TC light will come on while you are sawing the steering wheel back and forth trying to hold it in a STRAIGHT LINE. :)

I would be really pissed if it paused for 2 seconds before actually GOING.. after I punched it.

My son has a 2007 GMC Sierra Denali, that had a bad pause when you would punch it. He has tuned most of it out with a handheld Diablo Preditor.


Texas Jim

JJ and 928. The name of the transmission is the GM 6L50 Automatic transmission. BMW uses them on both the 3 and 5 series vehicles excluding the 550. 928 you are correct that they do utilize a ZF transmission but this is the manual tranny not the automatic.
JJ while I may be young and have certainly not owned anywhere near 54 vehicles. I do have at least some experience as I use to refurbish BL Jaguars. I moved some 38 cars over the space of 3 years. Now when compared to Jaguar 3 speeds and V12's of course the CTS is lightyears ahead regarding the transmission, however the 5.3L HE V12's are an engineering marvel in my opinion. In terms of modern cars my experiance is relegated to non entry level vehicles but slightly higher ones. I drove a CLS 550 for a few months when waiting for my Cadillac. The trans on that car could be easily confused especially when in comfort mode and the sport setting was no where near as advanced or intuitive during harder driving. Playing with the gas pedal and then actually stomping on it could result in a good 1 to 2 second lapse before anything happened. Not to mention that while the power from the V8 was solid, it made allot of noise and not all of them were good. All im saying is "refinement" is a matter of opinion and while you may have allot of experience with Infinitis etc and feel them to be superior. I have had a fair amount of experience with MB's (CLS,SL,C), Range Rovers, Jaguars (BL and new), Porsche (911, Cayenne) etc. I just find it hard to believe that if Caddy is on par or close to them that Infiniti and Acura could be that far ahead of the others.
I think your vehicle simply has a programing issue. As SuperJim pointed out its been well documented on many other vehicles. My Ford truck had an issue with delayed response that was fixed by simple programming from the Ford dealer, and then further fixed by the aftermarket toys. There must be something wrong with your car for you to get such an amazingly different experience from your car as others have from theirs. I hope that GM is working on a way to help you with your car.

JJ and 928. The name of the transmission is the GM 6L50 Automatic transmission. BMW uses them on both the 3 and 5 series vehicles excluding the 550. 928 you are correct that they do utilize a ZF transmission but this is the manual tranny not the automatic.
JJ while I may be young and have certainly not owned anywhere near 54 vehicles. I do have at least some experience as I use to refurbish BL Jaguars. I moved some 38 cars over the space of 3 years. Now when compared to Jaguar 3 speeds and V12's of course the CTS is lightyears ahead regarding the transmission, however the 5.3L HE V12's are an engineering marvel in my opinion. In terms of modern cars my experiance is relegated to non entry level vehicles but slightly higher ones. I drove a CLS 550 for a few months when waiting for my Cadillac. The trans on that car could be easily confused especially when in comfort mode and the sport setting was no where near as advanced or intuitive during harder driving. Playing with the gas pedal and then actually stomping on it could result in a good 1 to 2 second lapse before anything happened. Not to mention that while the power from the V8 was solid, it made allot of noise and not all of them were good. All im saying is "refinement" is a matter of opinion and while you may have allot of experience with Infinitis etc and feel them to be superior. I have had a fair amount of experience with MB's (CLS,SL,C), Range Rovers, Jaguars (BL and new), Porsche (911, Cayenne) etc. I just find it hard to believe that if Caddy is on par or close to them that Infiniti and Acura could be that far ahead of the others.
I think your vehicle simply has a programing issue. As SuperJim pointed out its been well documented on many other vehicles. My Ford truck had an issue with delayed response that was fixed by simple programming from the Ford dealer, and then further fixed by the aftermarket toys. There must be something wrong with your car for you to get such an amazingly different experience from your car as others have from theirs. I hope that GM is working on a way to help you with your car.

Nobody is working on my car at all because I really don't think there is anything wrong with it. I drove three of them before buying mine, and they are all pretty much the same.

Hmmmmmmmmmm

Just trade them in and get manual cars. Talk about refined. It is one of the finest six-speeds I have ever driven.

I have driven about 1,500 or so drive by wire cars, to a degree they all have it.
Of course they were GM cars....

It is engineered into the car, if they are all the same how does complaining about it fix the issue?
Apple to Orange comparisons are worthless. Yeah, we can read the newspapers and be the sheep too, "GM sucks", we know.
yada, yada, yada.

Not that everyone is doing it, but all the complaining and a bag of chips will get you a bag of chips. :lol:

Some of this totally depends on how you drive the car, a simple adjustment in driving style will make this a complete non-issue.
My $.02

Interesting discussion.

I would say that my CTS DI has more of a delay than my Solstice GXP 2.0 turbo DI does (Throttle response in that GM built engine is great) but I would not call it dangerous.

Some say "It's in the tranny"....some say "DI"....some say "Wireless throttle"....some say "Programming".....some say "Get a manual trans"....some say "Live with it"....

None have commented on throttle response when using the auto tranny in manual mode. Hum???

I feel some testing happening to my car on the way home later this afternoon....:shhh:

My experience with the one week rental we did, is in the manual mode, throttle response is instant. I thought it worked great in sport mode also. As for normal mode, I had the opportunity to pass many times on two lane highways and I was impressed and pleased. I can't say I recollect stomping on it at low speed/low rpm (I probably did , but don't recall). Oh, it was the 1SA (base engine).

Lewis

I'll do some testing on this when I get to drive again. I have the manual, and I think I may have noticed the delay. It seems like when I'm rolling, the car doesn't immediately respond when i'm at about 1100 rpm. This may just be programmed in so that if the pedal is moved quickly, like when hitting repeated bumps or speed bumps, the car doesn't jolt when your foot is suddenly moved on/off the accelerator. When I'm stopped, I recall that I get immediate response because of the need to rev before engaging the clutch. The delay I have noticed may just be due to low torque at low rpm though. We'll see. Either way, I'm not too worried about it.

Oh, it was the 1SA (base engine).

Lewis

Yeah the title of the thread does say "DI".

My throttle responds immediately. I tried it numerous times at numerous speeds. The throttle responds very quickly when I'm stopped and when I'm rolling at slow speed. Must be those auto trans you guys have... Try turning stabilitrak off.

Yeah the title of the thread does say "DI".

Sorry about that. I stand corrected.

Yep,

I believe that the engine is waiting for the tranny. When in manual mode if the trans is in the correct gear when the throttle is punched the response is "Right there". Manual mode displays the trans gear selection in the DIC. If you bump the gear selector up to say 4th gear at 20 mph or so, the rpm is at about 1800. Floor the gas pedal and the trans will drop to 2nd gear and then the engine responds. It waits for the trans. If you are in a gear that matches vehicle speed to 2000 rpms or higher the throttle response is not delayed. The delay on my car is only present if a lower gear is required. Even in manual mode if the selected gear is higher than what the car determines the driver's desired acceleration to be it will override your gear selection and downshift for you.

I think it's pretty trick and simply requires becoming accustomed to it.

Yep,

I believe that the engine is waiting for the tranny. When in manual mode if the trans is in the correct gear when the throttle is punched the response is "Right there". Manual mode displays the trans gear selection in the DIC. If you bump the gear selector up to say 4th gear at 20 mph or so, the rpm is at about 1800. Floor the gas pedal and the trans will drop to 2nd gear and then the engine responds. It waits for the trans. If you are in a gear that matches vehicle speed to 2000 rpms or higher the throttle response is not delayed. The delay on my car is only present if a lower gear is required. Even in manual mode if the selected gear is higher than what the car determines the driver's desired acceleration to be it will override your gear selection and downshift for you.

I think it's pretty trick and simply requires becoming accustomed to it.

Thanks for sharing that. IMO, that makes the system (CTS engine/trans) even more advanced and efficient. I'm liking this car better all of the time.

Lewis

Yep,

I believe that the engine is waiting for the tranny. When in manual mode if the trans is in the correct gear when the throttle is punched the response is "Right there". Manual mode displays the trans gear selection in the DIC. If you bump the gear selector up to say 4th gear at 20 mph or so, the rpm is at about 1800. Floor the gas pedal and the trans will drop to 2nd gear and then the engine responds. It waits for the trans. If you are in a gear that matches vehicle speed to 2000 rpms or higher the throttle response is not delayed. The delay on my car is only present if a lower gear is required. Even in manual mode if the selected gear is higher than what the car determines the driver's desired acceleration to be it will override your gear selection and downshift for you.

I think it's pretty trick and simply requires becoming accustomed to it.

I'm not sure how this makes it "even more advanced". It is not delayed IF you are manually over riding the automatic - Okay, it's an automatic transmission, why should we have to over ride it to make it work right?

"Even in manual mode..." It seems to me that it is not really in a true manual mode if it's gonna over ride your wishes. Yep, that's a "trick" all right. The only thing I would not expect it to do is downshift into a mechanical over-rev situation. Other than that, it should stay in whatever gear you put it in if you are in the manual mode.

Yeah, I guess I'm a cynic. I have this odd notion that the car should be more responsive than my wifes SUV.

I know my views are not popular among some on this board, but I'm simply passing along my feelings about the car. The things I don't like would be very easy, and damn near free to fix. That is really what I'm hoping for - is that Cadillac responds by smoothing out the rough edges. If I'm by myself in my feelings about the car, then I don't expect them to change it, nor do I expect to buy another Cadillac.

I'm not sure how this makes it "even more advanced". It is not delayed IF you are manually over riding the automatic - Okay, it's an automatic transmission, why should we have to over ride it to make it work right?

"Even in manual mode..." It seems to me that it is not really in a true manual mode if it's gonna over ride your wishes. Yep, that's a "trick" all right. The only thing I would not expect it to do is downshift into a mechanical over-rev situation. Other than that, it should stay in whatever gear you put it in if you are in the manual mode.

Yeah, I guess I'm a cynic. I have this odd notion that the car should be more responsive than my wifes SUV.

I know my views are not popular among some on this board, but I'm simply passing along my feelings about the car. The things I don't like would be very easy, and damn near free to fix. That is really what I'm hoping for - is that Cadillac responds by smoothing out the rough edges. If I'm by myself in my feelings about the car, then I don't expect them to change it, nor do I expect to buy another Cadillac.
Optimum gas mileage which is the current concern of the automotive world is not promoted by nailing the throttle at low vehicle speeds. Some cars are apparently smarter than the driver.

"Even in manual mode..." It seems to me that it is not really in a true manual mode if it's gonna over ride your wishes. Yep, that's a "trick" all right. The only thing I would not expect it to do is downshift into a mechanical over-rev situation. Other than that, it should stay in whatever gear you put it in if you are in the manual mode.

You'd feel differently if you were in Manual mode, 6th gear and realized you were about to be T-Boned. I think in that situation your instinct would be to stomp the gas to escape danger, not reach over, flick the shift lever down 4 times, wait for the downshift, then accelerate.

Forcing a downshift under WOT when you're in manual mode is smart design.

That is really what I'm hoping for - is that Cadillac responds by smoothing out the rough edges.

Funny you should use this choice of words, because smoothing out the rough edges is exactly the reason there's a slight delay when downshifting. The alternative would be a violent jerk to car as the lower gear engaged and dragged the engine up to speed, which may cause the rear tires to lock and a loss of control. The slight delay is the PCM raising the engine RPMs before engaging the lower gear.

You'd feel differently if you were in Manual mode, 6th gear and realized you were about to be T-Boned. I think in that situation your instinct would be to stomp the gas to escape danger, not reach over, flick the shift lever down 4 times, wait for the downshift, then accelerate.

Forcing a downshift under WOT when you're in manual mode is smart design.



Funny you should use this choice of words, because smoothing out the rough edges is exactly the reason there's a slight delay when downshifting. The alternative would be a violent jerk to car as the lower gear engaged and dragged the engine up to speed, which may cause the rear tires to lock and a loss of control. The slight delay is the PCM raising the engine RPMs before engaging the lower gear.

This is an interesting thread after all. It's nice we're all entitled to our opinions. For the greater %, the CTS in on the positive side of my opinions.

Lewis :)

You'd feel differently if you were in Manual mode, 6th gear and realized you were about to be T-Boned. I think in that situation your instinct would be to stomp the gas to escape danger, not reach over, flick the shift lever down 4 times, wait for the downshift, then accelerate.

Forcing a downshift under WOT when you're in manual mode is smart design.



Funny you should use this choice of words, because smoothing out the rough edges is exactly the reason there's a slight delay when downshifting. The alternative would be a violent jerk to car as the lower gear engaged and dragged the engine up to speed, which may cause the rear tires to lock and a loss of control. The slight delay is the PCM raising the engine RPMs before engaging the lower gear.

Tony - I almost don't even know how to respond. I don't get your comments at all.

Item 1 - The same issue would be true in a true manual transmission car. If I was in my Corvette that has a manual, I can't just stomp on the gas and have it kick down. Most people would only use the manual mode in certain circumstances that should not involve worrying about getting t-boned. It's a smart design if thats the way you want it. But to me, manual means manual. Its already got an automatic mode. Leave it there if you are so concerned about just being able to stomp on the pedal and have it downshift.

As to the second comment - you seem to think I've never driven any other car. Go back and read all my posts on this thead. I'm comparing the lack of refinement and responsiveness to other vehicles I've owned - lots of them.

I'm sorry you don't "get" my comments, but something like getting T-boned or other situations that would call for a need to suddenly accelerate are never planned- that's why they're called "accidents". If we all could predict when it would be perfectly safe to use manual mode I would understand a "no downshift" program, but it doesn't work in the real world. Another reason I didn't even mention for the programming is engine damage- with any transmission, manual or automatic, it's very bad for the engine and transmission to lug it in high gear. Since Cadillac is the one paying for any warranty repairs, I can understand their desire not to have people putting it in 6th gear at 35mph and flooring it, slowly dragging the car up to speed in an overdrive gear not designed for low speed acceleration.

Regarding the second comment, it would really make these discussions a lot less confrontational and more productive if you'd stop assuming that everyone is accusing you of something. I never said or implied that you hadn't driven a lot of cars. Relax, man- we're all friends here. Nobody is calling anyone an idiot, just offering different views on a question.

As for the actual issue at hand, just about any automatic transmission can be made to do quirky things if you give it just the right throttle at just the right speed in just the right gear. These things are calibrated to anticipate the needs of the driver based on the situation at hand, so if you're exhibiting the behavior of someone on a leisurely cruise but suddenly slam the gas like John Force, it's going to take the car a split second to reconfigure the timing, fuel, gear selection, transmission behavior and throttle position. The reason there's no delay in manual mode is because the car is programmed to expect spirited driving while in manual mode, so it's ready for it.

JJ that gave me an Idea. The car learns your driving style. You might try unplugging the battery giving it some time to loose its programming and then driving it like an absolute madman for a while.

I'm sorry you don't "get" my comments, but something like getting T-boned or other situations that would call for a need to suddenly accelerate are never planned- that's why they're called "accidents". If we all could predict when it would be perfectly safe to use manual mode I would understand a "no downshift" program, but it doesn't work in the real world. Another reason I didn't even mention for the programming is engine damage- with any transmission, manual or automatic, it's very bad for the engine and transmission to lug it in high gear. Since Cadillac is the one paying for any warranty repairs, I can understand their desire not to have people putting it in 6th gear at 35mph and flooring it, slowly dragging the car up to speed in an overdrive gear not designed for low speed acceleration.

Regarding the second comment, it would really make these discussions a lot less confrontational and more productive if you'd stop assuming that everyone is accusing you of something. I never said or implied that you hadn't driven a lot of cars. Relax, man- we're all friends here. Nobody is calling anyone an idiot, just offering different views on a question.

As for the actual issue at hand, just about any automatic transmission can be made to do quirky things if you give it just the right throttle at just the right speed in just the right gear. These things are calibrated to anticipate the needs of the driver based on the situation at hand, so if you're exhibiting the behavior of someone on a leisurely cruise but suddenly slam the gas like John Force, it's going to take the car a split second to reconfigure the timing, fuel, gear selection, transmission behavior and throttle position. The reason there's no delay in manual mode is because the car is programmed to expect spirited driving while in manual mode, so it's ready for it.

Tony - Yes, lugging is not good for the car. Yes, it would be nice to be able to stomp on the pedal and avoid an accident. But how is that any different than a true manual? When (okay, if) I put a automatic transmission into manual mode, why in Gods green earth would I want it to shift automatically? The reason I would put it there is to have control over what gear I'm in. To me what you are saying is totally conter intuitive. If you think cars should be able to not be lugged, and they should downshift when you stomp the pedal, then what you are saying is that no car should have a manual transmission.

No - you never said I've never owned or driven another car. I was trying to make a point - what you said is that the reason the CTS does what it does is for refinement and smoothness. What I'm saying is that I've owned (and still do) other cars that are more responsive AND more refined and smooth.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't expect Cadillac to change the car just for me. And if others don't feel the same way I do, I can accept that. But I'm dissapointed with the car for the reasons I've stated. By the way, I just went back to page one of this thread to make sure I wasn't crazy - I'm not the one who even started this. Read page one and you'll see that I'm not the only one annoyed by some of these quirks with the car.

JJ that gave me an Idea. The car learns your driving style. You might try unplugging the battery giving it some time to loose its programming and then driving it like an absolute madman for a while.

Thats actually a reasonable thought and makes sense.

Tony - Yes, lugging is not good for the car. Yes, it would be nice to be able to stomp on the pedal and avoid an accident. But how is that any different than a true manual? When (okay, if) I put a automatic transmission into manual mode, why in Gods green earth would I want it to shift automatically? The reason I would put it there is to have control over what gear I'm in. To me what you are saying is totally conter intuitive. If you think cars should be able to not be lugged, and they should downshift when you stomp the pedal, then what you are saying is that no car should have a manual transmission.


I can see this is a circular argument, but I'll try again:

You seem to be advocating that a "manumatic" should be identical to a true manual in every way except the clutch. Using your logic, there's no reason then for GM to prevent you from manually shifting into 1st at 90mph and blowing up the engine- you can do it in a manual, so why not?

My point is that any consumer product with a warranty is going to have features built into it to protect both the product itself from careless destruction, as well as the manufacturer from liability (such as the T-Bone situation I described). Regardless of what gear you're in, I think it's safe to say that anyone flooring the gas pedal is asking the car to accelerate at a rapid pace, right? It only makes sense that the car would override the selected gear and give you what you're asking for- acceleration.

I'm not arguing, not getting in your face, not demeaning your car knowledge, but does anyone here honestly have a need to be able to floor the car in 6th at 20mph without it downshifting? I could see your point if it were shifting all over the place when you weren't asking it to, or shifting out of first by itself in sport mode before hitting redline, but this is really splitting hairs.

This is great. It sounds to me like JJ should have checked off MN6 on his build sheet.

Thats actually a reasonable thought and makes sense.

And that right there is a compliment lol ahahaha.

Let us know how that goes. Im not as familiar with the Caddy unit as I am with the Ford unit but it should take a good ten minutes to completely drop the programming. It should also be dimm whitted and slow until it relearns. Just keep hammering it.
Let us know if it works buddy!

And that right there is a compliment lol ahahaha.

Let us know how that goes. Im not as familiar with the Caddy unit as I am with the Ford unit but it should take a good ten minutes to completely drop the programming. It should also be dimm whitted and slow until it relearns. Just keep hammering it.
Let us know if it works buddy!

I definitely think it's a good idea for somebody else to do it to thier car and then find out how it goes. Lewis ;):thumbsup:

This is great. It sounds to me like JJ should have checked off MN6 on his build sheet.

What an idea. :)

Right... wrong... smart.... stupid... would, could, should. So what?

It works the way it works.
I am just going to stick to my bag of chips.
:lol:

Right... wrong... smart.... stupid... would, could, should. So what?

It works the way it works.
I am just going to stick to my bag of chips.
:lol:

:thumbsup:

To me it makes perfect sense to have an atomatic trans operating in manual mode to retain some of it's automatic features ... namely downshifting for me when I stomp down on the gas.

I chose an automatic because I did not want to be constantly clutching and shifting. I like the fact I can choose sport mode or manual mode.....frankly, the last time I used manual mode prior to this discussion was the first day I owned the car. Point is: I rarely ever use it and I think that's the way most people use/don't use it.

If I were driving a manual trans and a situation arose that I needed quick acceleration I would instinctavley downshift and go. Since I am accustomed to an auto trans and might occasionally play around with manual mode, I might not instinctavely downshift in a panic situation. I know for a fact that if my wife accidentally put the car into manual mode that she would absolutly need the car to interperate her needs and shift accordingly.

After giving it a little more thought and reading a few different positions regarding the "Sorta-manual" mode. I would not want it any other way than how it is now. It is "Trick"!

Is there supposed to be a slight delay in throttle response during low RPM/speed travel? I notice it in my DI, and find it pretty annoying.

If I'm running 50+ MPH and kick down the gas the response is immidiate. I'm only seeing this in lower speed/RPM ranges.

exactly what "response" are you referring to?
I just tried this in auto, sport, and manual modes. there is no significant throttle response delay. next time you try it, watch the tach. the rpm increase right away, as the transmission downshifts usually more than one gear. then you feel the thrust in the seat. this is how it is supposed to work, if yours doesn't then you may have a problem. but I think what you're experiencing is the delay in the car's actual acceleration.
for example I left an intersection and was at 20mph and stabbed the pedal, rpm went to 3000 then 5000 as the tranny went down two gears. I didn't even get it all the way to the floor and the engine was fairly screaming, then it really started to pull since that's where the power is. this all took maybe a second.
rg

dads bmw has same thing...its just to smooth out driveability