Scroll down and read the link.

http://www.schepelcadillac.com/view_specials.htm?category=Ad

You might have to print/print preview to read it clearly.

I did, do and will.

Good for Schepel! We must not, we cannot lose this fight without losing our country. Period.

That was a very patriotic brochure. I'll bet that sold them some cars this Holiday. Never thought I would give a crap about where my car was manufactured.

:usflag:

That's what I'm talking about...

"Thank GOD for our country." (12 years U S Navy). It's great to be associated with the patriots on this thread. Thanks. Lewis

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i252/zymurgyphotos/Smilies/USAFlag.gif http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i252/zymurgyphotos/Smilies/USAFlag.gif http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i252/zymurgyphotos/Smilies/USAFlag.gif

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i252/zymurgyphotos/Smilies/Eagle.gif

Great ad! Thanks for the link! (This ad should be repeated in more places.):thumbsup:

Great ad. Just copied and pasted it to Microsft Word and sent it out to everyone in my address book as an email attachment. The key words here are to buy American, whether it is a CTS or a Ford or Chrysler product! Every product produced today is at least on a par with foreign cars.

Thanks for posting this!

My last 5 cars were General Motors products that were made in America. That's a great ad that was posted. I believe that we should be supporting American workers. Unfortunately, that ad is not in line with the American automakers line of thinking. The last thing that they want is a country full of people who want to "buy American". They would shut down every plant in this country and move them overseas if they could. As a matter of fact they are, little by little. They could care less about American workers. The American automakers philosophy is not "buy American". We, as consumers, have to show them that our philosophy is, by buying automobiles that are made here in the United States.

Well, we can't have janitors make $100K per year. Nor can we pay people for not working. If the auto makers are going to be competitive, the auto workers have to be competitive. That means that base assy line workers must be willing to work 40 hours for <>$40k.



" The last thing that they want is a country full of people who want to "buy American".

That may be the least substantiated, dumbest thing posted here this month.

I didn't understand that at all.

ahhh

the problem is that saying buy american and actually doing it are two different things.

Why?

Nothing more than preception. I myself own a 07 CTS. I liked it and unlike the OTHER guys, Cadillac was willing to make it how I wanted (kid you not! Everything but the Sunroof!).

I can tell you that once folks are set in thier ways, they see everything else as a "taboo" which I myself do not understand as after all, it is a "automobile", an inanimate object. Unfortunatly though,

Delphi is European meaning most electronics come from abroad. CAN bus licensed from Bosch. Aluminum more than likely sorced from overseas.

but as rchern so eleoquently put it, do not confuse the theory with reality. GM and Ford would love to send thier stuff to india or china, get it made there and bring it back. in the end it is about thier bottom line.

Where did you get the idea that they are European?

They are Headquartered in Troy Michigan.
They DO own many plants all over the world but they are Red, White and Blue.

As the ad says, about 80% of the GM car parts are sourced from the USA.


To correct your anti american thinking, GM and Ford would love to have ALL their stuff made here, but they have to compete with japanese (and others) who are building their parts in third world nations.
Geeze it is just economics.
WHY do you think they would "rather" have their stuff built in india?


Quit trying to confuse the issue.
If you buy American the ultimate profits stay here and the jobs stay here.The balance of payments is improved and the dollar gains.

:usflag:

Where did you get the idea that they are European?

They are Headquartered in Troy Michigan.
They DO own many plants all over the world but they are Red, White and Blue.

As the ad says, about 80% of the GM car parts are sourced from the USA.


To correct your anti american thinking, GM and Ford would love to have ALL their stuff made here, but they have to compete with japanese (and others) who are building their parts in third world nations.
Geeze it is just economics.
WHY do you think they would "rather" have their stuff built in india?


Quit trying to confuse the issue.
If you buy American the ultimate profits stay here and the jobs stay here.The balance of payments is improved and the dollar gains.

Well said!!!! :patriot:

Obviously this was a very "slanted" article. Just tell ALL those ex-Cadillac owners who traded their units in for CENTS on the dollar how great American made vehicles are. All the while attempting to keep a keep a straight face. Facts are facts. American cars do NOT hold their values as do foreign units.

.... Just tell ALL those ex-Cadillac owners who traded their units in for CENTS on the dollar how great American made vehicles are. .... American cars do NOT hold their values as do foreign units.

what does holding value have to do with anything? I buy vehicles to drive, not as an investment. always bought American and always will if I can.
rg

Obviously this was a very "slanted" article. Just tell ALL those ex-Cadillac owners who traded their units in for CENTS on the dollar how great American made vehicles are. All the while attempting to keep a keep a straight face. Facts are facts. American cars do NOT hold their values as do foreign units.

Slanted?
It wasn't an article, it was an ad by a vested interest.
Perhaps we can pass a law around here that makes people read the threads that they comment on?

There is no question that American cars WERE more trouble prone than some foreign models. They were NOT built as well.
That DOES affect desireability both as new, or used cars.

However, MOST American cars now have had less problems than recent Mercedes Benz. This is documented.
Most American cars have engines that last many thousands of miles as opposed to many thousands of Toyota motors that have died an early death due to sludge. This is documented.
Most American cars have far less automatic transmission problems than all the Honda Odyssey vans......for several years...... This is documented.


The resale value will come back as the reputation does.

To paraphrase Iacocca.....if you think the foreigners build a better car than the CTS or the Malibu or the Astra or the Aura...............buy it.
If you haven't driven a new Ford Taurus, then don't knock it.
If you think the Kia is better than the Cobalt, then PLEASE buy it.

But if you think the US is worth saving, then buy the cars that are equal to, OR BETTER than, the competition.

what does holding value have to do with anything?

Economics 101. A mass-production automobile's value retention or resale value is the one and only objective and conclusive measure of its initial quality or long-term reliability, whichever the case may be, and its overall desirability of ownership.

Where did you get the idea that they are European?

They are Headquartered in Troy Michigan.
They DO own many plants all over the world but they are Red, White and Blue.

As the ad says, about 80% of the GM car parts are sourced from the USA.


To correct your anti american thinking, GM and Ford would love to have ALL their stuff made here, but they have to compete with japanese (and others) who are building their parts in third world nations.
Geeze it is just economics.
WHY do you think they would "rather" have their stuff built in india?


Quit trying to confuse the issue.
If you buy American the ultimate profits stay here and the jobs stay here.The balance of payments is improved and the dollar gains.


anti-american thinking. How CUTE!

let me educate you on a couple of things slick. Saying you are american, any yahoo with with a keyboard can say they are American. Proving you are an American is a different story. ;)

As for Japanese and European. Last I checked their cars are priced higher and sometimes SIGNIFICANTLY higher the same "model" american counterpart. Yet here we are with Toyota having a "drab" line up of cars being #1. I know it is not thier price as they don't budge!

as for economics, hence why they would love to be in india making cars. Has nothing to do with any other non-sense to include "patriotism", "made in US&A" etc. All they care about is the all mighty (and not so valuable now) dollar and how to get the buyer (be it here, Australia or Europe) to purchase more of thier product v. the competitor. Pride? Patriotism, exactly why Ford and GM are in thier predicament they are currently in.

Economics 101. A mass-production automobile's value retention or resale value is the one and only objective and conclusive measure of its initial quality or long-term reliability, whichever the case may be, and its overall desirability of ownership.

econ 101 = supply and demand. doesn't affect my buying decision whether a lot of people or a huge number of people want to buy the car when I'm done with it. beg to differ with your statement, but it has to do with perception of quality which is what this is all about.
rg

econ 101 = supply and demand. doesn't affect my buying decision whether a lot of people or a huge number of people want to buy the car when I'm done with it. beg to differ with your statement, but it has to do with perception of quality which is what this is all about.
rg


not really

if you look at the initial pricing and see how much the cars drop. They are about the same percentage wise.

go price a "el cheapo" c series MB from 98 and compare to 98 new pricing. Do the same for 98 Caddy Seville and the drop percentage is almost a wash. The differing thing is the initial starting price which will be higher for the MB. Also there is more "GM and Fords" in the US then MB, BMW so that also follows supply and demand, High suply of GM and Ford with demand staying flat means prices have to go further down.

In europe, it is quite the opposite. MB and BMW start lower in price and GM & Ford higher (plus all the VAT & taxes). So GM and Ford retain more value over there than MB and BMW, same thing with the supply and Demand.

anti-american thinking. How CUTE!

let me educate you on a couple of things slick. Saying you are american, any yahoo with with a keyboard can say they are American. Proving you are an American is a different story. ;)

As for Japanese and European. Last I checked their cars are priced higher and sometimes SIGNIFICANTLY higher the same "model" american counterpart. Yet here we are with Toyota having a "drab" line up of cars being #1. I know it is not thier price as they don't budge!

as for economics, hence why they would love to be in india making cars. Has nothing to do with any other non-sense to include "patriotism", "made in US&A" etc. All they care about is the all mighty (and not so valuable now) dollar and how to get the buyer (be it here, Australia or Europe) to purchase more of thier product v. the competitor. Pride? Patriotism, exactly why Ford and GM are in thier predicament they are currently in.

Here's a little educational statement for you........Your statement about caring about the almighty dollar (or any other currency) is the reason ANY company is in business.
As Southern very accurately pointed out, American cars are now on a par with the foreign nameplates. Would GM and Ford rather have vehicles built in India as you stated.......hell no they wouldn't. To remain competitive in today's global market it is necessary to find avenues to produce vehicles at a profit. I am a union member who has watched many jobs disappear. Some of this has been brought on by our own greed. That said, lessons have been learned. Stories of the amount of money a union worker makes are often exaggerated. The number of people that are under the impression that I made $40.00 plus per hour is amazing! My last year at GM (2003) I made just over $25.00 per. We are not the dumb, lazy morons that the media has portrayed us to be. The bias in the media is partially responsible for the public's perception of American nameplates value. That has a sizable impact on resale value as well.
As for your statement of: "Saying you are american, any yahoo with with a keyboard can say they are American. Proving you are an American is a different story. ;)" Just what in hell do you mean here? I am an American, and I support American products as much as possible. Other countries citizens are extremely loyal to their own products. Why is it that in America people who show that type of loyalty are often ridiculed?

It's a nice sentiment. But is your TV built by an American company, your DVD player, or home computer/laptop ? How about the gas you buy, imported from the Middle east, Mexico, or Canada ? Go through your home and closets and see what percentage are American products vs from foreign sources. It would be really nice if even 50% of what we buy and use was from American companies, but the reality is much different. For the sake of the gods don't buy anything from a Wal-Mart or Sam's Club, most of their products come from outside of this country because they're cheaper and we seem to prefer price over source.

Here's a little educational statement for you........Your statement about caring about the almighty dollar (or any other currency) is the reason ANY company is in business.
As Southern very accurately pointed out, American cars are now on a par with the foreign nameplates. Would GM and Ford rather have vehicles built in India as you stated.......hell no they wouldn't. To remain competitive in today's global market it is necessary to find avenues to produce vehicles at a profit. I am a union member who has watched many jobs disappear. Some of this has been brought on by our own greed. That said, lessons have been learned. Stories of the amount of money a union worker makes are often exaggerated. The number of people that are under the impression that I made $40.00 plus per hour is amazing! My last year at GM (2003) I made just over $25.00 per. We are not the dumb, lazy morons that the media has portrayed us to be. The bias in the media is partially responsible for the public's perception of American nameplates value. That has a sizable impact on resale value as well.
As for your statement of: "Saying you are american, any yahoo with with a keyboard can say they are American. Proving you are an American is a different story. ;)" Just what in hell do you mean here? I am an American, and I support American products as much as possible. Other countries citizens are extremely loyal to their own products. Why is it that in America people who show that type of loyalty are often ridiculed?

I know ANY business is in it for their bottom line. This post is about buying "American" so in essense, focused on GM, Ford and Chrysler.

As for you asumption that GM and Ford would not jump ship to country X (whatever flavor of the month is for out sourcing). Highly Highly mistaken. Again it comes to their bottom line and if their bean counters see more $ by outsourcing part x or product Y. They will not think twice about it. You mentioned greed on the union part, you have not seen real greed at work especially when it comes to the higher ups of companies. Power or Money. The higher up want one or the other or both if they can get away with it.

As for the American comment I made. I stand behind it 100%.

Buying ANYTHING (American or made in China), all it requires is $. That means every tourist coming here is "American" since they bought those trinkets during thier vacation. No?

This post is not argumentative. It is just thought provoking.

I would love to buy American. I was thrilled when Cadillac came out with the CTS and I was happy to have the opportunity to buy an American luxury automobile with a cutting-edge style. I had problems with the ignition (documented in an old thread). I was not happy with Cadillac service (at two different dealers). The problem was never resolved and is still occurring, even as I return the car off-lease today.

That said, I was still willing to buy (lease) another CTS. I truly wanted to buy American. I test-drove two vehicles (documented in another thread); incredibly, both had problems. Not good odds. I just was not willing to take a chance again. I had visions of my freak-outs at the dealership, having to escalate to Cadillac Customer Service, and still not getting resolution. Just couldn't go through it again. Yes, I realize all brands have occasional problems, but in my 20+ years of leasing, I haven't had two "problem cars" in a row. The potential for that, after the experience with the test-drive and reading many posts here, was too great. Thought about trying Lincoln, but there weren't any styles that excited me. I'm as patriotic as the next person, but I don't want my car to be a source of stress for me.

I know ANY business is in it for their bottom line. This post is about buying "American" so in essense, focused on GM, Ford and Chrysler.

As for you asumption that GM and Ford would not jump ship to country X (whatever flavor of the month is for out sourcing). Highly Highly mistaken. Again it comes to their bottom line and if their bean counters see more $ by outsourcing part x or product Y. They will not think twice about it. You mentioned greed on the union part, you have not seen real greed at work especially when it comes to the higher ups of companies. Power or Money. The higher up want one or the other or both if they can get away with it.

As for the American comment I made. I stand behind it 100%.

Buying ANYTHING (American or made in China), all it requires is $. That means every tourist coming here is "American" since they bought those trinkets during thier vacation. No?

This post is not argumentative. It is just thought provoking.

I won't dispute the fact that greed is part of today's world. Company execs in the auto industry have on more than a few occasions have demonstrated this. I will disagree on building the product out of the country. It would be in the automakkers best interests to build here. There is always risk of political upheaval and policy changes in foriegn countries that make capital equipment investments for the long term questionalbe. Unfortunately, it's cheaper to build elsewhere, so a percentage of the product is built overseas. I believe that eventually developing nations will lose some of their advantage as the standard of living there improves. That will not help us today. The buy American message isn't just where a vehicle or product is assembled, but it's where the profits go. Is the product engineered here? Is the company based here? Bottom line.....where does your money go when you buy? If it's a foriegn product, it goes out of our country. Doesn't matter if it's assembled here or there.

...American cars are now on a par with the foreign nameplates...

Oops! Time for a reality check:

Automotive Lease Guide - 2008 Residual Value Rankings
https://www.alg.com/press.aspx?sid=27&pid=67,

TrueDelta - Quarterly Vehicle Reliability Survey
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/05/prweb934104.htm,

and J. D. Power will soon update the annual Initial Quality Study
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007088.

[QUOTE=928S;1531341]Oops! Time for a reality check:

Truedelta is an amateur attempt at a survey. I read J.D Powers and they have a mix of nameplates mentioned. Perhaps you should reread it. As for the automotive lease guide, it was written in October of 2007.

Truedelta is an amateur attempt at a survey.
Sour grapes and a cheap shot.

In reality, TrueDelta has steadily grown the number of included models (122 in latest update, all surveyed by the same methodology) and the number of owner/participants (30,000 in June). TrueDelta's statistical significance and survey credibility continue to improve with each update. Kudos to Michael Karesh!

I read J.D Powers and they have a mix of nameplates mentioned. Perhaps you should reread it.

Yes, J. D. Power ranked the initial quality of "a mix of nameplates" and all of GM's brands were below the industry average!

As for the automotive lease guide, it was written in October of 2007.

Duh! Residual Value Awards for 2008 model year vehicles were announced last October. Once again, GM is a no show in the luxury brand rankings - Cadillac is below average.
https://www.alg.com/awards

"Automotive Lease Guide is a leading provider of data and consulting services to the automotive industry...ALG is the standard for Residual Value projections in North America, and it has been forecasting automotive residual values for over 37 years."

Sour grapes and a cheap shot.

In reality, TrueDelta has steadily grown the number of included models (122 in latest update, all surveyed by the same methodology) and the number of owner/participants (30,000 in June). TrueDelta's statistical significance and survey credibility continue to improve with each update. Kudos to Michael Karesh!

I stand by the fact that this is done by the statement that this is a survey performed by an amateur. No offense meant, but it is what it is.

Yes, J. D. Power ranked the initial quality of "a mix of nameplates" and all of GM's brands were below the industry average!

Again try re-reading the article you based this on! Following, are quotes from this article:
Among other North and South American plants, the General Motors Oshawa 2 plant in Ontario, Canada, which produces the Buick LaCrosse and Pontiac Grand Prix, receives the Silver Plant Quality Award.
Other nameplates receiving model awards in 2007 include Chevrolet (Express and Silverado Classic HD), Lexus (RX350/RX400h) Pontiac (Grand Prix) and Porsche (Boxster).
This article was also written in June 2007.



Duh! Residual Value Awards for 2008 model year vehicles were announced last October. Once again, GM is a no show in the luxury brand rankings - Cadillac is below average.
https://www.alg.com/awards
My mistake, I thought you were refering to the 2008 CTS.

Did you really use the word "Duh"??? I'm sorry, I didn't realize that I was talking to a high school student. Any further dialogue with you is meaningless.

On a lighter side....

When I was in uni and looking for a summer job, my dad hooked me up to have an interview with the local steel factory (this company was, and may still be, one of the largest steel producers in North America). The interview was at this swank house, downtown, with the retired Doctor who had worked for the company. This guy was so hard to get in touch with, and somehow, we did. Anyway, my Trans Am at the time was in the garage, so I drove my sisters Accord to the Doctor's residence. He greeted me, we had tea, and everything went well. He escorted me to the door, and before I could leave, he had a death-grip on my arm suggesting he had something serious to ask me. His voice lowered, and as he pointed to the Accord, he asked, "you don't plan on driving THAT to work at ******, do you?" I had the nerve to ask why and he replied, "because the steel we manufacture doesn't go to create that Jap-scrap. You will buy American, or you will have no job." I'm Canadian by the way ;) I reassured him that I did indeed drive a GM product and he replied that I better drive that to work, and not the Accord. I smiled and was on my way. Needless to say, I didn't get the job but he proved his point.

Same company, my dad told me a story about one of the board members of the company, showing up to work with a brand new S-class Benz. When the "boss" got wind of the purchase, he pulled the guy in, and by the next week, the Benz was gone, with a Cadillac in its place.

Cheers

Brilliant! ^

My Father in law (who owns a Honda and an Acura) always has the temerity to complain about the value of the US Dollar and failing industries. Those that do not contribute to American businesses and manufacturing have absolutely no right to criticize their shortcomings. Perhaps if people started keeping some of their money in our economy instead of sending it Japan, China and Korea then our businesses might be able to stay competitive.

Well, doncrystalred, if nothing else you're consistent. That is, when you're not making baseless assertions and ad hominem attacks, you're consistently confused.

The award-winning GM plant located in CANADA is little more than a merciful footnote to the subject matter - the Initial Quality Study. As highlighted in the J. D. Power press release and below, initial quality of all GM nameplates was below the industry average:
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/charts/2007088a.GIF

Hopefully, GM's rankings might improve in next month's annual update of the initial quality study.

Any quality surveys need to be taken with a grain of salt- look at the attached picture below, then finish reading this post.

Look at the wild fluctuations from year to year in companies that did not introduce any new models or changes. Look at Mercedes: Do you honestly think they improved from 130 pph to 111pph in one year? No- it just so happened that the majority of MB owners returning the survey this year have trouble free cars.

The fact that none of these survey companies want to admit is that the results are only as good as the data you get back, and without surveying every single owner you end up with skewed results. A brand could be fantastic and only have it's few pissed off customers respond, resulting in horrible results.

That is, when you're not making baseless assertions and ad hominem attacks, you're consistently confused.

The award-winning GM plant located in CANADA is little more than a merciful footnote to the subject matter - the Initial Quality Study. As highlighted in the J. D. Power press release and below, initial quality of all GM nameplates was below the industry average:

Hopefully, GM's rankings might improve in next month's annual update of the initial quality study.



The problem with the Initial Quality Study is it's taken at 90 days of ownership. 90 days, that doesn't really speak to how well a car holds up over years of ownership, only initial impression. What you should be referencing is their Vehicle Dependability Study vs Initial Quality. That is if you care to see how cars are holding up after 3 years of ownership vs only 90 days.


"The study, which measures problems experienced by original owners of 3-year-old (2004 model year) vehicles, finds that Buick (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/buick) and Lexus (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/lexus) tie for the top rank position with a score of 145 problems per 100 vehicles (PP100). Following in the top five rankings are Cadillac (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/cadillac), Mercury (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/mercury) and Honda (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/honda), respectively. "


http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007130


Cadillac finished # 3 with another GM brand even with Lexus for # 1.

The problem with the Initial Quality Study is it's taken at 90 days of ownership. 90 days, that doesn't really speak to how well a car holds up over years of ownership, only initial impression. What you should be referencing is their Vehicle Dependability Study vs Initial Quality. That is if you care to see how cars are holding up after 3 years of ownership vs only 90 days.


"The study, which measures problems experienced by original owners of 3-year-old (2004 model year) vehicles, finds that Buick (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/buick) and Lexus (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/lexus) tie for the top rank position with a score of 145 problems per 100 vehicles (PP100). Following in the top five rankings are Cadillac (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/cadillac), Mercury (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/mercury) and Honda (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/honda), respectively. "


http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007130


Cadillac finished # 3 with another GM brand even with Lexus for # 1.


There can only be one explanation for this.....you must be "confused"!:bonkers:

Dang it, CIWS! How dare you let logic and facts get in the way of a good American car bashing thread?

:lol:

This is not something I had to read in order to change my vehicle purchasing habits. I have supported GM and purchased ONLY GM vehicles since I was old enough to purchase vehicles on my own which was back in 1994.

I am a die hard loyal GM fan and I always will be!

I just hope Cadillac keeps up the good work because as long as they do, I will keep buying new Cadillacs every 2 years!

I used to be a Chevy guy and purchased only Chevy products, but Cadillac stole me away with their new art & science styling and design.

I just love Cadillacs!

SG

Brilliant! ^

My Father in law (who owns a Honda and an Acura) always has the temerity to complain about the value of the US Dollar and failing industries. Those that do not contribute to American businesses and manufacturing have absolutely no right to criticize their shortcomings. Perhaps if people started keeping some of their money in our economy instead of sending it Japan, China and Korea then our businesses might be able to stay competitive.

take dealers as an example. some members here said their dealer told them this CTS is a hot car and they wont sell it below MSRP, but when you walk into a Toyota dealer.. you will hear how much off, specials this and that. I guess its understandable why the business goes to Toyota. long story short - the story is not to discredit ourselves...the moral behind is that we need to do better in our part..w/ good tactics, so people will come back to you.

But that's a catch 22- GM got into the position it's in today by being the "bargain" leader, while the hot new imports were selling for sticker or more (1980's).

Discounting gets short term sales at the expense of long term perceived quality. Keep it up long enough and your sales die off when everyone decides that the car must be crap since it's always on sale.

that's why you need good tactics. made in china stuffs used to be crap, but nowadays they are export quality.. but they pretty much spend the same or lower prices to produce. So the quality increased why the prices are lower. you need good tactics. If they can do it, why can't we do it? You see the jep cars of their classes are improving every year even they put many sale on it. Take the rubbish corolla or civic as an example. it is a shit car compare to luxuries but you cant discredit their improvement while selling prices are well keeping w/in range

the thing is.. America corps themselves move their business to china.. so i dont know who are we blaming? ourself? it's all business at the end of the day. and if you cant do it better than others.. then well you know the answer

I've got to ask this question....why are there a couple members who belong to this "Cadillac enthusiast forum", who do nothing but post threads trying to convince all of us that GM and Cadillac is a POS? :hmm: You're not happy with your car....we get it.

This is my first GM vehicle, and I couldn't be happier with the overall design and execution of this vehicle...I've also been waiting years to be proud of owning an American car again. GM has now proven to me that they can build world class vehicles...not just the CTS, but the Enclave, Malibu, and Vue are all steps in the right direction.

:yeah:

It's one of life's great mysteries, my friend. Every forum has their "Village Idiots" who do nothing but rag on the car the forum is about. I think it's just general attention whoring.

The problem with the Initial Quality Study is it's taken at 90 days of ownership. 90 days, that doesn't really speak to how well a car holds up over years of ownership, only initial impression. What you should be referencing is their Vehicle Dependability Study vs Initial Quality. That is if you care to see how cars are holding up after 3 years of ownership vs only 90 days.

"The study, which measures problems experienced by original owners of 3-year-old (2004 model year) vehicles, finds that Buick (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/buick) and Lexus (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/lexus) tie for the top rank position with a score of 145 problems per 100 vehicles (PP100). Following in the top five rankings are Cadillac (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/cadillac), Mercury (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/mercury) and Honda (http://www.jdpower.com/autos/honda), respectively. "

Okay, let's examine initial quality vs. longterm dependability. There's definitely a correlation between the two. One might say "cause and effect." But here's what Neal Oddes, Director of Product Research and Analysis for J. D. Power, says:


"Ideally, manufacturers should aim to achieve high initial quality when launching a new model, since this builds a strong foundation for future years and can become a differentiating factor relative to the competition. One year after launch, initial quality begins to improve by an average of 7 PP100. If a model launches with lower initial quality, it is more difficult for the manufacturer to keep pace with the competition over time."


"Automakers may reap numerous benefits from producing dependable vehicles—not only in higher residual values, decreased warranty costs and opportunities for remarketing their vehicles, but also in higher customer satisfaction and increased likelihood of customers recommending or purchasing newer dependable models. This is why it is especially important for automakers to successfully launch new vehicle models with high initial quality and appeal—models that perform well in these regards tend to exhibit particularly strong dependability later in their life cycle."

Now let's compare Mr. Oddes' expert observations to your own. For example, you correctly pointed out that Buick tied with Lexus for #1 and Cadillac was #3 in the 2007 Vehicle Dependability Study. So where were Cadillac and Buick three years earlier in the 2004 Initial Quality Study? Well, no surprise, #1 Lexus was followed by #2 Cadillac, Jaguar, Honda, and #5 Buick tied with Mercury, all ranked well-above the industry average. Bingo! Nice correlation, eh?
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/charts/2007130a.gif
http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2004037c.gif

Fast forward, the table has turned and GM's initial quality is back in the dumps. As previously noted, all GM nameplates were ranked below industry average in the 2007 Initial Quality Study. So the soon-to-be-released 2008 Initial Quality Study is indeed a big deal, with implications for GM's current and future standing within the industry and in the eyes of the car buying public. Not to be dismissed.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/charts/2007088a.GIF

My 2008 CTS-4 has been "perfect" (took delivery 12-11-07) and my 2003 CTS Sport Package was also. Your opinion seems inconsistent with this thread:hmm::

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-forum-2008-beyond/141442-autopacific-08s-top-brand-cadillac-cts.html

928S- If your next car happens to be a BMW or Audi, I hope that you're fair and post their below average rankings on the 2007 JDS IQS 100 times on their forums!

This has been an interesting thread. I originally joined this forum to learn first-hand experiences and the pros and cons of the 2008 CTS. I have had the added benefit of learning about the different products available...where those products can be found, and how to use them (I love Rejex). Before I took delivery of my CTS through the experience of others I knew the common trouble spots to be aware of.....wind noise, rattle areas etc. At delivery, and to date, I don't have any problems. Although I haven't had the need to change oil yet, this forum has provided me a great step by step illustrated example. I felt bad for Crackerzot's engine failure, but was relieved to read about how the dealer and GM handled the problem. There have been very intelligent responses to questions that have been asked. Most people have been polite and tolerant. Then there are the people who are here to bash the product. Mkaresh and 928s seem to have an agenda on this forum. It seems that 928s has posted in many threads here to promote a negative image of this vehicle and the company that builds it. Although 928s has denied any affiliation with mkaresh and truedelta he seems to have vey detailed insights. How about we acknowledge that no carmaker makes a perfect vehicle, there are shortcomings that are important to some and totally irrelavent to others. Come here to learn from others, and share your experiences....good and bad. If you have an agenda take it elsewhere.

Okay, let's examine initial quality vs. longterm dependability.......snip

The choice is yours which you care to place more weight with. Initial quality at 90 days or long term dependability over several years. Personally I place more weight with a brand's long term because I tend to keep a car for several years. But if the 90 day numbers mean more to you, so be it.

Since the 2008 CTS is a first-year re-designed model, I'm not concerned about 3-year dependability data. On the other hand, if I still own my CTS in 2011, then yeah I'll be very interested in the VDS. Til then, quarterly-updated TrueDelta and annual IQS will suffice.

It seems that 928s has posted in many threads here to promote a negative image of this vehicle and the company that builds it. Although 928s has denied any affiliation with mkaresh and truedelta he seems to have vey detailed insights.

You're still confused, and you have a wild imagination.

This has been an interesting thread. I originally joined this forum to learn first-hand experiences and the pros and cons of the 2008 CTS. I have had the added benefit of learning about the different products available...where those products can be found, and how to use them (I love Rejex). Before I took delivery of my CTS through the experience of others I knew the common trouble spots to be aware of.....wind noise, rattle areas etc. At delivery, and to date, I don't have any problems. Although I haven't had the need to change oil yet, this forum has provided me a great step by step illustrated example. I felt bad for Crackerzot's engine failure, but was relieved to read about how the dealer and GM handled the problem. There have been very intelligent responses to questions that have been asked. Most people have been polite and tolerant. Then there are the people who are here to bash the product. Mkaresh and 928s seem to have an agenda on this forum. It seems that 928s has posted in many threads here to promote a negative image of this vehicle and the company that builds it. Although 928s has denied any affiliation with mkaresh and truedelta he seems to have vey detailed insights. How about we acknowledge that no carmaker makes a perfect vehicle, there are shortcomings that are important to some and totally irrelavent to others. Come here to learn from others, and share your experiences....good and bad. If you have an agenda take it elsewhere.

:yeah:

I'm beginning to learn the hard way that the only way to deal with these annoying people with an agenda is ignoring their posts. If no one responds, the post drops off the front page and isn't cluttering up the forum with garbage.

That's why I've left the "Consumer Reports" thread for good, and I suggest we all do the same for these inflammatory posts. I have a hard time ignoring them too, but the truth is that if we don't feed the trolls, they'll go away.

I'm beginning to learn the hard way that the only way to deal with these annoying people with an agenda is ignoring their posts. If no one responds, the post drops off the front page and isn't cluttering up the forum with garbage.

That's why I've left the "Consumer Reports" thread for good, and I suggest we all do the same for these inflammatory posts. I have a hard time ignoring them too, but the truth is that if we don't feed the trolls, they'll go away.

Good advice. You are right, I'm helping to promote the garbage being spread by responding to it. Lesson learned.

:yeah:

928s...shut up and enjoy the car. If you have a question that you cant find the answer to in the manual ask. If you are having an issue that you think is important, that means more than a rattle or something minor, tell us about it. As for your GM bashing, anti Cadillac rants keep them to yourself. Most people here like their car and frankly I think I speak for allot of people here when I say, I really dont give two $hits how unhappy you are with yours so dont bash mine.

Sorry guys, I just wanted everyone to read the article about lost jobs and where most of our money goes when we purchase a vehicle. I know it’s not always feasible to buy American products but it helps our country when we have the opportunity to.

Sorry guys, I just wanted everyone to read the article about lost jobs and where most of our money goes when we purchase a vehicle. I know it’s not always feasible to buy American products but it helps our country when we have the opportunity to.

That was very tactful. Much appreciated. Lewis