OK guys,

I am going to be moving from so cal to MN. yeah, yeah, people say wt heck?

Its due to some family stuff, anyway I digress.

How does the big fleetwood handle snow, especially want to know from the few guys in the tc area, who know how crappy the pot holed roads are in MN. lol.

I am throwing around the idea of ...gasp...getting a 4runner to replace the fleetwood.

So how do they do?

Perfectly fine, really. I've driven on many combinations of solid ice, unplowed snow, etc. and never had an issue...and I have high performance sport tires.

A big help is just how meaty they are as far as weight--it helps hunker them down and keep all planted and steady. From there, getting going, with the traction control left on, it will kick in frequently but is very useful as such...keeps you from stomping on the gas too hard and going out of control. Steady and a bit slower, and all is well. Same with stopping, with the good ABS control.

You won't have as much traction to get going as some kind of a 4wd or AWD, but it's quite good if you're slow and steady to start...and then the weight, TC, ABS, and RWD balance really keep you secure and trucking right along. Not overly hilly or curvy, but through 2 decently bad (as far as roads) storms this winter, I could zoom right along passing people in their glorious AWD's and never slipped, aside from a bit when starting & stopping.

We have Fleetwood guys here from MN and other areas who will hopefully chime in similarly.

I drove a heavily modified 1995 Buick Roadmaster sedan all winter here in Chicago and had no issues.. the secret... is...

1) Michelin Arctic Alpine 215/75/15 snow tires on Chevy Rally steel wheels.

2) Do not drive like a jackass. Drive with some sense and it is easy.

3) POR 15 or Undercoat the undercarriage and rockers if you can.


I drove 60 miles a day in the nasty winter weather and had no issues. I have since sold that sedan but will be driving my Roadmaster wagon this coming winter and putting the same snow tires and wheels on it.

Here is a picture of the sedan in the winter gear:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/2008%20Chicago%20meet/IMG_1926.jpg

Mine did fantastic this winter, and I drive a lot of back roads that haven't got plowed yet in northern ILL/SE WI. I have 225 70 15 snows and posi (no TC for now) and I had no issues. Drive sane and you won't have any issues, and the HD suspension these cars have laughs at potholes as well as the larger tires do well to handle them (and we had some DOOOSIES this year! when you measure them in FEET you know they are bad)

At least so far, compared to my FW with TC to my new 00 Park Ave Ultra (supercharged 3800) with TC, the FW has a lot more power and TC is far more effective.

I also have no issues with my 96 Fleetwood in the snow of northern WI. I dont run snow tires but I have my all season radials siped. Makes a huge difference. Can definitely vouch for the benefits of siping.

What is siping?

What is siping?

The grooves and tread and bumps and what not on the sidewall. a lot of big bad off road treads have a lot of siping. look up interco tires for a good example.

How much does it cost to have them siped? And where do you go? I have some that they just are poor design and need it....

1) Michelin Arctic Alpine 215/75/15 snow tires on Chevy Rally steel wheels.


Do those 15x8 Chevy full-sized truck/van wheels fit under the "skirts" of the Fleetwood without any modification? Those seem to be everywhere - been thinking about picking up a set to use as a second set of wheels.

Those are 15x8? 96Fleetwood, you're running a 215 on an 8 inch wheel? That seems like it would be too wide.

15x8 and 225's were factory on the T/A's with WS6 (2nd Gen), 215's are only 10mm narrower, not much diff, and at the rim itself, pretty minor diff...

15x8 and 225's were factory on the T/A's with WS6 (2nd Gen), 215's are only 10mm narrower, not much diff, and at the rim itself, pretty minor diff...

True, but that car also ran a shorter sidewall. I've seen 275s on a 15x7 and it works. But my SS wheels are 17x8.5 and I run a 255, but that's because they're lower profile. When you have sidewall height it's not as critical, which apparently goes both ways. Cool.

I have a tire outfit in EauClaire Wi sipe mine for me. If you bring the new tires in to have them mounted they only charge 5 bucks a tire for siping. If the tires are on your vehicle already they charge 15 bucks a tire because they have to pick all the debris out of each tire before they can run them through the machine. Check out the link at the bottom of this page for locations of shops. Page I linked to pretty much sums up the benefits. http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/tireSiping.dos

These are 15X7s. I chose the 215s for the best snow/ice traction.

The 15X8s were found in the Vans and some 2WD Suburbans. These 15X7s came from a 1500 series 2WD truck.

Everything's a tradeoff though and siping will add a little squish to the handling. But you might not notice in a big Caddy :D. Real snow tires are always siped, but I guess I can see how you'd want to add a little more M+S capability to a regular all season.

Biggest advantage in my opinion is not having to swap tires every fall and spring.

As much of a pain it is, it is worth it for the traction. But I might consider just siping the tires I have, all it takes is that extra 1 foot of traction to make that panic stop just a heart racer or a heart stopper....

I love my snow tires, they are cheap ($40 each when I got mine) and takes 20K miles/yr wear off my "good" highway all reason tires.

Biggest advantage in my opinion is not having to swap tires every fall and spring.

Not that I ever get a huge amount of "winter", but I run year round without a worry on 275/50/17 Nitto Extreme Performance AS tires on the Fleetwood...and never an issue here either.

Dedicated winter tires really can help, but even without...the cars are stable and secure, unless you're a moron. Then again, I loathe AWD & 4WD cars in general, too, while others can't live without. No need...even very north, you can still get around fine with a single driven axle. Not as much grip, but for being careful, then you don't have to drive around the rest of the dry and warm year lugging an extra differential, axles, electronics, and other garbage to weigh you down.

Short rant done. Unless going to a very, very, very bad area and will be driving in it multiple times a day...a Fleetwood tank will suffice, as long as treated to caring baths afterward to blast away all the gunk;)

So, cadydady...any thoughts?

On my Caprice I always run high performance summer only tires in the summer on my SS wheels. So if I want to drive the car in the winter, I have to get another set. And if I am buying another set, I might as well get proper snow tires, which have siping already. Never was a fan of all seasons, but with the FWB maybe I'll just run cheap all seasons, especially if I keep FE1.

, as long as treated to caring baths afterward to blast away all the gunk;)

Very true, the guys at the local car wash came to know me and the Roadmaster well. I got it washed weekly there despite the weather forecast. It was the only American car that came to that wash.. it was funny to see a modded Roadmaster between BMWs and Benzs.

So, cadydady...any thoughts?

Still thinking lol.

I would miss the caddys tq off the line compared to a 4runner or other 4x4 type.
But boy is it fun rippin up the unplowed 12 inches of snow streets in a storm, and droppin the hammer and just hooking instead of seeing all the others still barely out of the intersection haha.

Will see.

I run my 92 Roadmaster wagon in the winter. It eats the snow alive. We were 6" away from an all-time record this winter, and the Roadie never let me down. I use 235 75 15s on it - one size taller than stock. The speedo actually reads correct with them (verified by my GPS). It would have read a little slow with the stock 235 70s. I usually run dedicated winters on it, but I left the all seasons on it this year because I only picked up my new set of winters after xmas. I thought, "winter's almost over, I'll mount these next year!" Boy, was I wrong! More snow than I have seen since I was born. The car did fine, though. With snows, it is unstoppable. Actually, that is the exact opposite - it is MUCH easier to stop with snows. Everyone always thinks about getting going, but it is stopping when you will be really really thankful that you have good tires.

I went with Hankook iPike tires. Nice tread, lots of agressive siping, and can be studded.

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/product/tires/hanss3.ang.jpg

Actually, that is the exact opposite - it is MUCH easier to stop with snows. Everyone always thinks about getting going, but it is stopping when you will be really really thankful that you have good tires.

If it wasn't socially inappropriate I could kiss you for saying that. This is one of my huge pet peeves! Everyone's "big problem" is avoiding a little sliding moving away from an intersection. But a 4WD truck on regular tires A) is probably in 2wd until the driver does otherwise unless it's a full time system and B) has ZERO better stopping and turning than a FWD or RWD vehicle. B also applies to any given AWD system. But try telling the Subaru and Audi guys. Unless you're on the throttle, your AWD isn't helping a damn thing. And nobody advocates heroic WRC-style rally drifts as safe winter driving.

Problem - driver gains a huge sense of false confidence and is able to get moving MUCH faster than they should be. By the time they need to turn or stop - oops, no good, bye bye. Stopping and turning is what makes you a safe winter driver. For every situation where acceleration could "prevent an accident" there are about 99 situations where stopping and turning is more important. And people with 4WD or AWD cars are LESS likely to bother with snow tires or even decent tires for the winter because it gets going so darn well. Absolutely irritating, public idiocy.

Kev, I feel the love:o

Everyone in the snow belt knows what to expect: the first big snowfall brings ditches and medians filled with 4WD SUVs! Sure, you can accelerate like a madman, but once that beast starts to slide, you're done. I just chuckle as I motor on by in my old woodie wagon...:D

Yup, my Fleetwood can outstop my 7000+ lb ("wet") 99 K2500 Suburban 454 anyday, dry, wet or snow! I know my car well for how it reacts in bad weather, so it is nice to be able to drive aggressively if desired. Fast doesn't mean smart, but I drive with far more confidence with my FW than most cars EVER do with FWD and probably a lot with 4WD. Stable as a rock. The ditches are filled with both every year....

Kev, I feel the love:o

Everyone in the snow belt knows what to expect: the first big snowfall brings ditches and medians filled with 4WD SUVs! Sure, you can accelerate like a madman, but once that beast starts to slide, you're done. I just chuckle as I motor on by in my old woodie wagon...:D

Nice tire! I like good aggressive snows.... I have had 2 sets now, and loved both. Well worth the cost. Looking for them for my Buick before winter. Firestone Blizzaks are on clearance now, must be a new one coming out this fall... $61 each at tirerack.

I run my 92 Roadmaster wagon in the winter. It eats the snow alive. We were 6" away from an all-time record this winter, and the Roadie never let me down. I use 235 75 15s on it - one size taller than stock. The speedo actually reads correct with them (verified by my GPS). It would have read a little slow with the stock 235 70s. I usually run dedicated winters on it, but I left the all seasons on it this year because I only picked up my new set of winters after xmas. I thought, "winter's almost over, I'll mount these next year!" Boy, was I wrong! More snow than I have seen since I was born. The car did fine, though. With snows, it is unstoppable. Actually, that is the exact opposite - it is MUCH easier to stop with snows. Everyone always thinks about getting going, but it is stopping when you will be really really thankful that you have good tires.

I went with Hankook iPike tires. Nice tread, lots of agressive siping, and can be studded.

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/product/tires/hanss3.ang.jpg

Hey Tom, did you end up keeping your Fleetwood, or did you sell it in lieu of your Park Ave Ultra?

I see you have a 94, so maybe I can't help much. I am originally from New Hampshire, and the winter before last I ran my 90 FWB in the snow all winter long. I didn't have too much trouble, mostly cornering problems, but you will get used to it quick. Just one thing that I found to be really important: though I respect other people's opinions, no matter how great people say they are and no matter how many people tell you you can use all seasons during the winter, you definitely need WINTER tires for driving in the WINTER. I had really good all seasons on my Caddy for the first bad storm, and after I coudn't even get out of my plowed driveway, I went and got snows. Let me tell ya, BIG DIFFERENCE!!! Most people I knew (who didn't like pulling their cars out of ditches) just kept a set of winter's and a set of summers and changed them every Spring/Fall. I had WinterForce tires on my car, which are the cheapest snows you can get (and studdable), but they sure kick posterior. It semmed worth it to me. I pulled my now wife's 90 Deville FWD out of ditches 3 times last winter ($120+ a pop) because somebody told her to save money and get all seasons. I had an 89 DeVille FWD (basically same car) that drove awesome in the snow with WinterForce tires, so... Anywho, you have awhile before you have to decide, so good luck...

I've been in Minneapolis for 10 years now and the pot holes are getting worse and worse, especially during spring. They do a good job plowing if you dont live in Hennipen county(MPLS). Hennipen county takes a couple of days to plow. They are doing ALOT of construction on 2 major highways so it get pretty bad in the morning. Plus the bridge went down so that cuts off NE MPLS but they are 3 months ahead of schedule so it should be up around October(you should see the new design, its massive). You should have great tires but you will do alright if you are a smart driver. You will find the bad intersections fast but its not so bad here.

Have you ever been to Minnesota before?

I've been in Minneapolis for 10 years now and the pot holes are getting worse and worse, especially during spring. They do a good job plowing if you dont live in Hennipen county(MPLS). Hennipen county takes a couple of days to plow. They are doing ALOT of construction on 2 major highways so it get pretty bad in the morning. Plus the bridge went down so that cuts off NE MPLS but they are 3 months ahead of schedule so it should be up around October(you should see the new design, its massive). You should have great tires but you will do alright if you are a smart driver. You will find the bad intersections fast but its not so bad here.

Have you ever been to Minnesota before?

I grew up in MN, I know all about it there. haha.

I had an 89 DeVille FWD (basically same car) that drove awesome in the snow with WinterForce tires, so... Anywho, you have awhile before you have to decide, so good luck...

I'm not even from NH and I support snow tires. I have a pair of those Winterforce tires that go on the back of my Caprice in the winter. 4 would be a lot better, though. When I had my 95 Z28, I ran a set of Dunlop Graspic DS-2s and let me tell you - those were pretty impressive. The tread was very squirmy and pretty much ruined the handling of the car above 50mph, but man, you should have seen me in this one bad snow storm. I was quite literally flying by SUVs on the highway. In fact, the highway was all white and I had it up to about 90 just because I felt like being totally stupid. Don't worry, there were hardly any cars in the section I did that. That should give you some idea...

Not yet, gotta fix up somethings, but unofficially she's for sale, officially, no sign in the window....

IF I can pull it off, I will keep it and have my wife drive it around town as it gets nearly 1.5x the mpg as her 454 Suburban. But she wants the Buick not the Cadillac, but maybe we can work something out to keep it.... But if someone comes offering, might make someone a nice deal.

I'll have to list what I have and what I have going on with it. Makings to be a killer HD ride.... 5/8" spindles, new axle shafts, posi, etc....

Hey Tom, did you end up keeping your Fleetwood, or did you sell it in lieu of your Park Ave Ultra?