: I guess I don't much like the way modern automotive design is going.



I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-19-08, 07:22 PM
Aside from a few brands, I don't much care for the way that automotive design, as a whole is going nowadays. I think it all started with the Bangle BMW's, but now that look has transcended into most brands. Take for example the current generation Toyota Camry.....a cheap, unoriginal knockoff of the BMW look, especially in the trunk/tail light treatment. In one smooth move, the Camry went from annoyingly bland to shockingly ugly. And it's not just those either that went after the "Bangle Butt" look. Some of the new Benzes have it, most of the new Lexus's have it, some of the new Hondas have it, etc etc.

When comparing cars built 10 years ago to cars built now, I have compiled a list of cars that as a whole have IMO improved in design since then, and cars that have as a whole IMO declined in design since then..

Improved:

Ford (especially the Mustang and F-150)
Dodge
Chevrolet (especially the Camaro, Silverado and Corvette)
Pontiac (the newest Pontiacs are some of the best looking American cars out there)
Saturn
Acura (it may be ugly, but atleast it's not bland)
Aston Martin
Audi
Nissan (they used to be bland, but now they look exciting, fresh and European)
Lamborghini
Honda (See below)
Hyundai (!!!!!!!!)
Infiniti (for the same reasons as Nissan, but I lament the Q45)
Mazda
GMC
Kia
Porsche
Saab
Volvo
Toyota (hey, to me, ugly IS better than bland)
Volkswagen



Declined:

BMW
Mercedes Benz (new ones are nice, but I adore late '80s, '90s Benzes)
Cadillac (say what you will, but I love late '90s Cadillacs.)
Honda (some, like the Civic are an improvement, but others, Accord and CR-V are a disappointment)
Ferrari (both styles are gorgeous, but that '90s style just does it for me)
Jaguar
Rolls Royce


So, in all actuality, many brand's designs have improved over the last ten years IMO, but the vast majority of my favorite brands have produced designs that I don't find as pleasing as the ones they made ten years ago, but IMO, many of these brands best designs were made in the '90s. Take for example the W140 S Class, or the 1998+ Seville, E38 7 Series, F355 Ferrari, Jaguar XJ, Lexus LS400 or even the Audi A8....actually that's equally gorgeous, if not more so, nowadays. But as an interesting note, many of the brands that never interested me as much are making better looking cars now, such as Pontiac, Nissan or VW.

So I guess to sum it up, I don't like the way many of the luxury car manufacturers are going, but I am liking the way many of the more mainstream car manufacturers are going.

Blackout
05-19-08, 07:41 PM
Are you that bored?

Destroyer
05-19-08, 08:10 PM
I'm with ya Chad. Dont like the styling direction new cars have headed in either. Its all about who can put the largest friegin headlights and tailights on an egg nowadays. There are of course exceptions (not bored enough to actually list them) but by and large thats the gist of it.

orconn
05-19-08, 08:18 PM
I have to agree with Chad. While I may differ with him on specific makes and models I agree that the "Bangle" influence on a broad swath of auto design has been a trend that I hope will soon end. While the basic design of the '90's and early "00's BMW was pleasant, the iteration of the the design on Honda's and other makers cars led to tolerable boredom with many of the cars. The "baglization" of many makers design has led to designs that were immediately off putting and in my case has lead to a search for a low mileage older model. I was especially disapointed to see Mercedes mangle their current generation of models with "Bagle Butts," especially after managing to lighten up the previous generations designs to become one of the better looking lines of European autos.

I recently saw a Jaguar XF on the road, I have to say that at first glance I took it for a Lexus and wouldn't have identified it as a Jaguar except for the ungainly "leaper" on the trunk lid lip. I have been an admirer and owner of Jaguars in their various manifestations for the past 45 years and I can say never have I been as dissappointed to realize the car I was looking at was a Jaguar. With all the automotive press's (miserable hacks that they are) build up about an exciting departure from Jaguars "retro" designs of the recent past, I was depressed to see the cliched, unimaginative, pastiche of a design they came up with for this new model.

I am afraid we traversing a new 1970's like desert of automotive design ........ with only a few oasis of beauty amid a sea of sandy mediocrity and downright ugliness.

JimmyH
05-19-08, 08:42 PM
There is a reason car design is moving in the direction it is. Same reason car design from different manufacturers gets less and less unique. Because that's what sells.

orconn
05-19-08, 08:53 PM
I don't think so, the second generation Taurus sold very well for awhile ........ inspite of looking like it was design by a dispeptic Japanese toy designer who was recovering a fourth night out with his coworkers hangover! Some people need cars and won't by "used" and lets face fleet managers are not known to use good design as a purchasing criteria!

Night Wolf
05-19-08, 10:42 PM
heh..... I actually like the new Carmy style..... :hide:

I like most of the new car designs too..... finally getting away from the 90's jelly beans and starting to get lines and nice curves again.

Tho the amount of REAL SUV's is decreasing every year :(

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
05-19-08, 10:46 PM
Chad, I definitely agree with you on Ford. There is not a car I dislike (aesthetically) in their current lineup. I adore the look of the Fusion, Taurus and the Taurus X.

I think that one of the best looking new cars coming out this year is the Ford Flex (http://www.fordvehicles.com/flex/). I love the bold lines but at the same time it is not ungodly ugly and massive (the opposite of a Land Cruiser). It looks like an old woody station wagon, and the white roof accentuates that look even more.

I am, however, up in air on Cadillac. I like the look of the DTS, STS and XLR, but am not a big fan of the new CTS or Escalade (although I was never a fan of the latter to begin with). Every time I see a new DTS I marvel at how simple the design is but how much it stands out. Nice bold lines and a clean exterior make it a great looking car.

DopeStar 156
05-20-08, 02:08 AM
I am, however, up in air on Cadillac. I like the look of the DTS, STS and XLR, but am not a big fan of the new CTS or Escalade (although I was never a fan of the latter to begin with). Every time I see a new DTS I marvel at how simple the design is but how much it stands out. Nice bold lines and a clean exterior make it a great looking car.

I feel the opposite with Cadillac. The DTS looks ok minus the back. I wish the plate had stayed on the trunk and the back up lights stayed next to the plate. The XLR needs a refresh.

The STS is a great looking car, no issues there. The new CTS and Escalades I think are an exponential improvement over the last gen ones......

I would like to drop that 3.5L Duratec V6 into my Taurus and watch it fly.....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-20-08, 10:29 AM
Yeah, I was really bored when I typed this up yesterday morning. I had some time to kill before my friend met me for lunch, and I had thought of this a few days earlier while I was driving around, but had forgotten about it until yesterday.

MauiV
05-20-08, 01:08 PM
IMO the companies whose design is on the decline are:

Ford -everything except the Tonka Superduty and the Interceptor concepts are horrible
Lincoln -whoever designed the current series of vehicles should be in the unemployment line
VW -blah
BMW - blah
Lambo -nothing will ever be as great as the Countache. Even the Diablo is better than the current crop
Jaguar -the XF interior is AWESOME. The exterior is boring
Pontiac - other than the G8 (Not even a Pontiac) still ugly with horrible interiors.
Mazda - the ugly plain stepsister of the Jap imports RX8 is the only saving grace and it is old now
Honda - almost as plain as Mazda
Toyota - following Lexus down the path of ordinary, boring lines
Porsche- other than the Cayenne Turbos they all look the same and have for 40 years.

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
05-20-08, 05:24 PM
Pontiac - other than the G8 (Not even a Pontiac) still ugly with horrible

I forgot about those. I love the styling, but they aren't even made here. IMO, Holden does not have a single bad-looking car. I wish more automakers would realize that nobody likes all this "roundy", "futury" looking sh*t. Give me some solid lines and a badass front end that looks like I am about to run you down and blow you away.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-20-08, 05:29 PM
I like cars that offer timeless styling, which explains why I don't like so many of these new cars that will look dated in ten years. Oddly enough, I LOVE '70s Lincolns, Cadillacs and Imperials because they were such a perfect example of the '70s at their best, or in other terms, extremely dated nowadays.

urbanski
05-20-08, 06:07 PM
i love threads with content and dont tolerate thread shitters (especially against Team members)

JimmyH
05-20-08, 07:26 PM
are you drinking again urb?

:shiner:

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
05-20-08, 07:47 PM
i love threads with content and dont tolerate thread shitters (especially against Team members)

What? :hmm:

MauiV
05-20-08, 07:47 PM
are you drinking again urb?

:shiner:

<<I am. The wifes in class and Im about to grill a pizza for dinner.

Kona Fire Rocks for everyone!!!!

Sandy
05-20-08, 07:59 PM
I love & really really want a 311 H.P. V-8 All Wheel Drive Volvo S80. What a fantastic Car! What Leather, and beautiful Dash and what fantastic options are offered! Rides like a DTS / deVille, corners like a CTS on steroids. From it's headlight washers to to LED tailights to its twin T.V DVD wireless operation and rear fold down armrest that contains a 'fridge to hold a two 6-pac of cola or 2 -2 litre sodas, to its one touch down on all wndows, and it's optional 19" wheels/tires (Chomed rims) and unusual yet striking paint colors, the car is a winner. With everything on the menu (option-wise) she window stickers at $60,511. $3, 400 off = $ 57,100. You guys really need sto spend some time looking that car over !!

77CDV
05-20-08, 10:20 PM
I've always thought Mr. Bangle cribbed his design from one of Mr. Earl's less fortunate products: the 1953 Buick notchback sedans.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=270238415669#ebayphotohosting

Check the rear three quarter view.

Jesda
05-21-08, 03:23 AM
Cars get taller and taller. I wish that would stop.

dkozloski
05-21-08, 03:51 AM
The Ford GT 40 was called a GT 40 because it was 40 inches high; just about right. There's a classic look for you.

Sandy
05-21-08, 09:25 AM
I LOVE '70s Lincolns, Cadillacs and Imperials

WRAPS IT ALL UP & PUTS A BOW ON IT !!

COULED NEVER AGREE MORE !! ACTUALLY ALL I HAVE OWNED.

IMPERIALS: 1968, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1982

LINCOLNS: 1986, 2003 (CURRENT)

CADILLACS: 1988, 1993.(CURRENT)

I'D LOVE A 2008 VOLVO S80 AWD V8 BUT...THEY ARE $ 60,511 MSRLP

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-21-08, 10:25 AM
My Benz is surprisingly tall...it's roughly 56" tall, but it uses the height to add to the imposing feel.

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
05-21-08, 05:34 PM
Cars get taller and taller. I wish that would stop.

I keep getting taller and I wish it would stop too. I'm 6'5 now and I am tired of smashing my head on things. :banghead:

93DevilleUSMC
05-21-08, 08:04 PM
Wait to you get to 6'9". You'll love it.

gary88
05-21-08, 08:07 PM
I'm 6'3" and hope I don't grow any more. I can slam dunk and that's all I need.

JimmyH
05-22-08, 11:38 AM
Cars get taller and taller. I wish that would stop.

They are trying to keep up with the SUVs

dkozloski
05-22-08, 12:21 PM
If the cars get taller you'll be able to wear a ten gallon hat again.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-22-08, 12:36 PM
Or a tophat..........and a monacle.

gary88
05-22-08, 02:44 PM
I foresee a return of the robber barons.

http://www.mises.org/images4/RobberBarons.jpg

dwight.j.carter
05-22-08, 02:59 PM
I like the way the new cadillacs look. I don't agree with the STS looking so much like the other models. 92-04 really had a look of it's own. Now I can't tell the difference between the STS and CTS except for the size.

Sandy
05-22-08, 03:06 PM
My favorite Caddies are the 1989 thru 1993 Fleetwood Coupes, and the Fleetwood Sedans and the Fleetwood Sixty Special Sedans. I luv the fender skirts, the padded vinyl tops the formal landau tops on the Coupes and the style of them (looong and low), and sleek. Followed by the Eldorados of 1967-1970.

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
05-22-08, 05:19 PM
Sandy, I thought you didn't like padded tops.

orconn
05-22-08, 07:53 PM
I foresee a return of the robber barons.

http://www.mises.org/images4/RobberBarons.jpg

Check out the national and international business news ............they're already back!!! Tey have new names but the themes the same "me first and screw everyone else" .........especially the shareholder. It's not about making a profit, it's about taking the profit!

gary88
05-22-08, 08:13 PM
Check out the national and international business news ............they're already back!!! Tey have new names but the themes the same "me first and screw everyone else" .........especially the shareholder. It's not about making a profit, it's about taking the profit!

Yeah but they don't have tophats and/or monocles :stirpot:

We actually talked along the lines of this in Business class today. We looked at the CEO of Costo vs the CEO of Walmart. Costco's CEO makes roughly $350,000 a year, while Walmart's CEO makes roughly $5.6 million a year. The average full-time Costco worker earns roughly $44,000 after working for two years, while the average full-time Walmart employee earns roughly $24,000 after two years.

And they wonder why Walmart workers are so unhappy :rolleyes:

JimmyH
05-22-08, 08:18 PM
I like the way the new cadillacs look. I don't agree with the STS looking so much like the other models. 92-04 really had a look of it's own. Now I can't tell the difference between the STS and CTS except for the size.

family resemblance is here to stay

Sandy
05-22-08, 11:13 PM
I like the factory tops, not the aftermarket ones.

77CDV
05-23-08, 12:56 AM
Longer lower wider is a product of the 1950s, esp. post-1957. Before that, cars were pretty tall and relatively narrow, most with short front and rear overhangs. That's why the "step down" Hudsons were so revolutionary in the early 1950s. A lower floor meant you could lower the roof and still maintain excellent headroom. It also gave a lower center of gravity for greater stability, one of the things that made those Hudsons such great stock car racers. Compare a 1951 Hudson Hornet to a 1951 Chrysler Windsor or even a 1951 Chevy and you'll see the difference.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-23-08, 08:37 AM
Longer...lower....wider...

First..
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/lincoln-cars10.jpg

Then..
http://automotivemileposts.com/files/mark41974copperdiamondfire.jpg

Finally..
http://automotivemileposts.com/files/mark51979cartier.jpg


:drool: :cloud9:

chubbyranger
05-23-08, 05:45 PM
I wanted a CTS-V because I figured 400 HP had to be good. Then I realized I don't use the 300 HP I have now. Buy what you like and let the sheep buy what they make. Slap a BMW logo on a Yugo and somebody will buy it.

orconn
05-23-08, 08:26 PM
If it weren't for the sheep and their propensity to buy the "prestige" item of the moment we wouldn't have our relatively cheap luxo performance ........... and thank goodness for all the blue haired sheep that bought the Sevilles and Devilles, we all love to pick up cheap, in the first place!

orconn
05-25-08, 02:38 PM
I've always thought Mr. Bangle cribbed his design from one of Mr. Earl's less fortunate products: the 1953 Buick notchback sedans.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=270238415669#ebayphotohosting

Check the rear three quarter view.

When I first read your comment I didn't quite get it ......... then, yesterday I was following a late model 7 series BMW and sure enough you have uncovered the source Bangle's inspiration. Rearrange the tail lights and back a '56 Buick Special into a low quard rail and Voila basic Bangle Butt!

hueterm
05-25-08, 10:28 PM
When I was a kid, and they were new -- I liked the Mark V the best. However, now, I think the older the better of those 3 models. The Mark V was actually a downsized/reduced weight version.

That pic of the Mark III looks awesome....

caddeville89
05-26-08, 12:18 PM
I can't say enough about how bad I think new cars look. Now I agree that the new "lines" are better than the '90's "jelly bean look", I think the cars are being pumped out with less and less character every year. For instance, the newer Impala with the now "standard GM taillights" versus the earlier '00's with the round taillights...I think were moving more and more towards a "generic car". I mean, when I see the new DTS driving next to me on the highway, I can't get over how much it looks like every other car, (including "standard GM taillights") except the cheap plastic grille gives it an "I have my mouth open" type look that I can't stand. I mean, sure, it probably has a real powerful engine and maybe the windows roll themselves down on command or whatever, but the soapbox car I built in the Boy Scouts has these same features....who cares??? Why can't I have a nice body to put on my "this is the best featured car ever" car. Do you suppose in 25 years people will be restoring '08 DTs's just like they would a '59??? (or a '90 for that matter) I doubt it, in fact, I doubt anybody will remember them. What is there that sticks out about them to remember....and if you tried to restore one, your little kid will ask "daddy, why are you working on this plain, ugly, plastic thing" and you will say "well, Johnny, because the windows roll themselves down aaallll by themselves..." lol Anyhow, y'all get my idea.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-26-08, 12:19 PM
Mark IV still takes the cake for me, but the V looks great too, because like you say, it's like a Mark IV on the Atkins plan....It's longer, leaner, lower. The Mark VI is the one that I don't like as much, because it looks the exact same as the V, but it's a foot shorter.

My dad went and browsed the car dealers in my area yesterday, he looked at the Altima, Camry, Accord and Impala. He said he couldn't believe how ugly the rear end on that Accord was, which was a shame because the car is so fantastic. And he always liked Hondas too! :eek: