: You've seen it. Would you pay 70K?



V-Love
05-14-08, 12:04 AM
I am just wondering of all those who have seen the new 2009 at the Summit Point track day.........would you spend 70K? That is a big jump from 50K. I like the interior lay out but have not seen one first hand. Whats the verdict?

thebigjimsho
05-14-08, 01:09 AM
For 70k? Never was going to in the first place. But a demo car or lightly used '10 for say...55-60k will probably work.

Silverspeed
05-14-08, 01:26 AM
Nope. If it's not fully loaded(or almost loaded) for less than 65 count me out.

CIWS
05-14-08, 08:57 AM
Possibly, but until I've actually sat in and driven a production model, there's no way to really say.

RightTurn
05-14-08, 08:58 AM
Nope; I was looking for closer to $60k. Guess we'll see.

dqw1
05-14-08, 09:48 AM
Out my budget range.

gothicaleigh
05-14-08, 09:53 AM
If I could afford it, yes. $70k is still a very attractive price considering the cars it competes against and bests (M5, etc.).

Unfortunately, $70k would also buy me a very nice extra wide format Roland printer... and no car can compete with those. :gothiwink:

csp3000
05-14-08, 10:30 AM
From everything that I have seen and read so far online and in the magazines "as I have not been as lucky as some to see it in person" I would say yes at 70K but I would really have to drive it first before I could give anyone a check. I will though give a refundable depost on a 09 again even knowing that it might be in the 70K's.:)

Silver -V-
05-14-08, 10:51 AM
I have already put a deposit on an '09 based on my dealer telling me the plan was for the car to sell close to 60k. If the cost goes up to 70k optioned up to meet the mostly standard options I had included in my '04 - I am out. That puts the car up 14% over what I planned, and I won't spend that for a Cadillac. I feel the option and pricing on V1 was done correctly. On the V2, lowering the entry price then optioning (sp?) up to 70k is mis-leading. This is not proper pricing for this type of car even if the Germans do it that way. Cadillac built a very loyal following to V1, but the changing of price structure could keep them from ever hitting the 7k a year they want to build and sell.

DRKSIDE
05-14-08, 11:21 AM
I agree that the pricing is a jump from the "target audience" of the V1 car. I think it is now QUITE apparent that they are going to battle with the demographic that wants more than a "muscle car" with 4 doors.

The recent lap time at the Ring would indicate the car is worthy of the price tag. It is only .03 sec behind the C6 Z06 on the track and it has more options and more room. While the car is not what I would call overpriced, I will say it is now out of my range and my demographic. It was a nice American option to the M3 and M5 but it now firmly takes a step above those cars.

I think the price is acceptable but I don't think they will get the sales that they did with the V1 as they are stepping into a more limited segment of the market.

urbanski
05-14-08, 11:28 AM
42k.

chris1268
05-14-08, 11:44 AM
It is a shame that many of us have been waiting for so long for the V2 in the 60K price range and now the price appears to be climbing. I will of course wait for the official prices to come out, but I have a feeling now that I will be requesting my deposit back from my dealer and buying something a bit more in the original price range.

Davidstan
05-14-08, 11:47 AM
I know i would rather pay 70k for v2 than a roland printer thingy. Seriously, optioned well at 64K and i'm lookin at it. Out the door w/ gg tax and sales tax i dont see how it can be less than 70K. Numbers are not working for me w/ new car sales slumping and gas at 4 bucks.

thebigjimsho
05-14-08, 12:46 PM
It is a shame that many of us have been waiting for so long for the V2 in the 60K price range and now the price appears to be climbing. I will of course wait for the official prices to come out, but I have a feeling now that I will be requesting my deposit back from my dealer and buying something a bit more in the original price range.Climbing? I've never heard GM say anything about price.

Silverspeed
05-14-08, 12:50 PM
It is only .03 sec behind the C6 Z06 on the track and it has more options and more room.

You need to re-check your figures. Make sure you note the driver's and conditions. A C6 Z06 would wipe the floor with a V2 on any track given the same driver and same conditions.

thebigjimsho
05-14-08, 01:04 PM
You need to re-check your figures. Make sure you note the driver's and conditions. A C6 Z06 would wipe the floor with a V2 on any track given the same driver and same conditions.What does the driver own?

gothicaleigh
05-14-08, 01:33 PM
It was a nice American option to the M3 and M5 but it now firmly takes a step above those cars.

Pricing for the M3 starts at $53,800 and hits $68,720 fully loaded.
Pricing for the M5 starts at $82,900 and probably could be optioned into six figures.

Pricing for the V sounds about right.

big_tugg
05-14-08, 01:46 PM
70k sound about right...its alot compared to the V1 but if all the problems is fix like they say, its worth it to me. Plus I already promised my wife she can have the new V2 and I drive the old one so I have no choice. Dealership already has my information, just waiting for release...sigh, I want the new one too!

BeastMaster
05-14-08, 01:47 PM
At $70 it is a no for me. I love the car. I love my 05 V and even with 4 rear ends, I'm have trouble thinking of letting it go next year. I think Cadillac really needs to prove they can make a high performance car that performs without the issues we have had with the V1. As the old saying goes fool me once shame on me, fool me twice and no deal (well close enough).

I don't think Cadillac has proven that they can make a car as reliable as the other manufacturers that the car is constantly being compared to, and they need to do that. I'm sure there will be those that disagree with me on that one). Once they have, I think they can easily jump the price of the car to $70. Don't get me wrong, I am still trying to figureout how to get one in my garage next May, but not for $70,000. Can you imagine paying $70,000 for a car and having to replace the rear end ever 12,000-18,000 miles (granted I do not expect this to happen, but)? My wife would kill me.

urbanski
05-14-08, 01:48 PM
What does the driver own?

apparently the "and conditions"

1fstkde
05-14-08, 02:09 PM
70k is pushing it...has to be fully loaded for that, and still, cant say until i drive it...

thebigjimsho
05-14-08, 02:54 PM
70k is pushing it...has to be fully loaded for that, and still, cant say until i drive it...Well, according to some posters here, GM must price it that way with all the options included or else they're being misleading(or is that mis-leading) and dishonest and cheats and crooks.

70k is a bit much but when you're adding Recaro seats and 2 piece rotors and no lift shifts and launch control and Ultraview roofs and moar options, I think a potential $8G jump from base to loaded isn't bad. Otherwise, the potential $62G base price DEFINITELY gets you that value over the V1 when looking at the interior, LSA, beefed up rear end, etc...

the cadillac kid
05-14-08, 03:26 PM
"no matter what you offer i want MORE"

chris1268
05-14-08, 03:49 PM
actually I was told 60K at the Chicago autoshow

CTSV_510
05-14-08, 04:59 PM
Climbing? I've never heard GM say anything about price.

You're right Jim, it's all still just speculation now.


Pricing for the M3 starts at $53,800 and hits $68,720 fully loaded.
Pricing for the M5 starts at $82,900 and probably could be optioned into six figures.

Pricing for the V sounds about right.

:yup: The BMW dealer around the corner from me has a few '08 M3's, all in the $50k's, and 1 M5. $98k !


70k sound about right...its alot compared to the V1 but if all the problems is fix like they say, its worth it to me. Plus I already promised my wife she can have the new V2 and I drive the old one so I have no choice. Dealership already has my information, just waiting for release...sigh, I want the new one too!

I am never getting married.

As for the '09 ... I already have a fast Cadillac sedan. If I spend another $60k it's going to be on a used C6 Z06 and a Maggie for my V. ;)

EDIT: One more thing to add - I have not seen an '09 CTS-V in person yet, but I do believe that pictures and videos are not doing the car justice, based on the '08 CTS's that I see on the roads now.

MIACTSV
05-14-08, 05:11 PM
60k, 70k who cares. What else can you buy for this price that has 550+ horsepower and avaliable options. A stripped GT-R still costs more if you can actually find one and manage the impossible of paying sticker for it and at the end of the day its still a Nissan. Not that there is anything wrong with Nissan I own 2 Nissan/Infinity products and they are great but I have never heard anyone say "THIS IS THE NISSAN OF ******".

urbanski
05-14-08, 05:13 PM
gtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtr:shlick:gtrgtrgtrgtr gtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtr

onebadcad
05-14-08, 05:59 PM
gtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtr:shlick:gtrgtrgtrgtr gtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtr

My sentiments exactly, I am getting the one with the Veyron body kit, the C6Z rims and the Viper seats.

P.S. Urb, fix the casino bro', I am getting the DTs.

urbanski
05-14-08, 06:06 PM
wish i could haha, boss is on it

MIACTSV
05-14-08, 08:59 PM
gtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtr:shlick:gtrgtrgtrgtr gtrgtrgtrgtrgtrgtr

Uh Oh I think I said a bad word :canttalk:
I'm gonna go wash my mouth with soap now.

DRKSIDE
05-14-08, 09:06 PM
You need to re-check your figures. Make sure you note the driver's and conditions. A C6 Z06 would wipe the floor with a V2 on any track given the same driver and same conditions.

Oh I checked... and then rechecked on another site. I WAS wrong about the Z's time. It was the C5 Z06 that did 7:56. The C6 did it 1/10 seconds faster than the CTS-V. The new V is a bit heavier but it does have more power than the Z06 and it is no slouch on the twisties apparently. Wipe the floor? I think not.


7:49 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 512 ps / 1440 kg Horst von Saurma 2007-06-22 Sport Auto

7:56 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06 405 PS/1409.1 KG (3100 lb) Dave Hill [27]

7:59* Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z51 405 PS/1481 kg driver Dave Hill *manufacturer claim.

7:59 Dodge Viper SRT-10 2005-11 Motor Trend

7:59 Porsche 997 Carrera S Walter Röhrl WHEELS 06/04 PASM setting “Performance”

ewill3rd
05-14-08, 09:50 PM
They will sell... and I will fix them :D

... and maybe even go on a road test now and then. ;)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/ewill3rd/vday/brochure_a.jpg

HiTechRV
05-14-08, 10:07 PM
I don't think it will be 70k, but even if it is, that's $10K less than my STS-V lists for, for a car that is better in every way. Bring it on.

Loadtoad
05-14-08, 11:20 PM
Oh I checked... and then rechecked on another site. I WAS wrong about the Z's time. It was the C5 Z06 that did 7:56. The C6 did it 1/10 seconds faster than the CTS-V. The new V is a bit heavier but it does have more power than the Z06 and it is no slouch on the twisties apparently. Wipe the floor? I think not.


7:49 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 512 ps / 1440 kg Horst von Saurma 2007-06-22 Sport Auto

7:56 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06 405 PS/1409.1 KG (3100 lb) Dave Hill [27]

7:59* Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z51 405 PS/1481 kg driver Dave Hill *manufacturer claim.

7:59 Dodge Viper SRT-10 2005-11 Motor Trend

7:59 Porsche 997 Carrera S Walter Röhrl WHEELS 06/04 PASM setting “Performance”

Your times are still off by a few seconds.

http://www.battleboards.org/uploads/monthly_03_2007/post-16-1173142214.jpg

DRKSIDE
05-15-08, 12:11 AM
Your times are still off by a few seconds.

http://www.battleboards.org/uploads/monthly_03_2007/post-16-1173142214.jpg

Eh... different day, different time. So the sights I visited didn't update or the time on your post was newer. I am sure the V2 would post a faster time once a driver gets used to it.

My point still stands that this 4-door sedan is running within a few seconds of a world class "supercar". That is impressive as hell, I don't care WHO ya are!

Worth the money at $60K OR $70K. Of course won't own one until 2012. :crybaby:

jlmcdonald21
05-15-08, 01:38 PM
If I had the money, then sure.

HushH
05-15-08, 01:42 PM
Don't know that I will pay $70k for it, but that's not to say that I don't think it's worth $70k.

Krug Ford
05-15-08, 03:22 PM
pricingt has not been anounced as of yet. We will have to wait and see.

GM-4-LIFE
05-15-08, 07:03 PM
It better NOT be more than $60K, fully loaded!!

Cadillac needs to show the world that they can build a world class sports sedan for far less than the ripoff prices being offered by Mercedes and BMW. I would NEVER EVER get a Mercedes or BMW. High priced for nothing! Their quality is terrible too!

$70K would be too much money for the CTS-V.

Heck, the STS-V is $80K. They have to differentiate the two from each other more than just $10K.

SG

DRKSIDE
05-15-08, 07:44 PM
They have to differentiate the two from each other more than just $10K.

SG

Well, that is an excellent point.

RightTurn
05-15-08, 08:20 PM
It better NOT be more than $60K, fully loaded!!



Or what...??? You won't buy one?

CTSV_510
05-15-08, 08:32 PM
Or what...??? You won't buy one?


:histeric:

thebigjimsho
05-15-08, 11:04 PM
It better NOT be more than $60K, fully loaded!!

Cadillac needs to show the world that they can build a world class sports sedan for far less than the ripoff prices being offered by Mercedes and BMW. I would NEVER EVER get a Mercedes or BMW. High priced for nothing! Their quality is terrible too!

$70K would be too much money for the CTS-V.

Heck, the STS-V is $80K. They have to differentiate the two from each other more than just $10K.

SGThat is a bunch of poop. There has been a lot more than $10G in improvements made from V1 to V2. There will be many more options than available in the first V. As for differentiating the CTS-V and STS-V, why are you comparing a brand new, yet to be released, design to a 4 year old design. The STS is dying anyway, so no need to worry there...

And let me get this straight. You want Cadillac to ooze of quality and you want them to undercut the Germans who you say don't by many thousands of dollars? Well, that's great, let's make Cadillac sell these things for $30G and do it until they go 6 feet under. Makes sense....not.

RightTurn
05-15-08, 11:10 PM
TBJS, your fonts are shrinking. :alchi:

StealthV
05-15-08, 11:46 PM
And let me get this straight. You want Cadillac to ooze of quality and you want them to undercut the Germans who you say don't by many thousands of dollars? Well, that's great, let's make Cadillac sell these things for $30G and do it until they go 6 feet under. Makes sense....not.


Amen and is exactly why V2 should cost about the same as a M5. If V2 is truly the equal or better, it can command M5 prices in the market.

People who have buy $100 bottles of wine don't buy $60 bottles to save a little money.

It's time for Cadillac to cowboy up or be forever kidnapped by K-Mart. :cowboy:

gophaster
05-16-08, 02:06 AM
One of the main reasons I was looking at the caddy in the first place was the incredible value the car would be at that $60k price.

Personally my problem with the car at $70k is that the standard CTS is $33k which for me makes it compete money wise with the BMW 3 series. I was looking at a new BMW M3 Sedan which has a $54k base price...when I heard the CTS-V would have a base of $60k I said wait a minute here...for $6k more I can get a car that's bigger and much more powerful...soo I rushed to the caddy dealer to give my deposit!! At $60k it's a no brainer but $70k I can drop back down to $54k and snag an M3 Sedan. I know the CTS-V is larger than the M3 sedan (and more powerful) but I am fine with the size of the M3 sedan and its 4.1 sec 0-60/ 12.6 sec 1/4 mile / 8:05 'ring time :)

I've been buying German for years.....Caddy is trying to steal customers from the big three Germans - Audi, BMW, and Benz. In order to steal me away I need to see that $60k price, otherwise I will play it safe and stick with what I know. :)

70k and I will ask my dealer for my deposit back. All the magazines mentioned a $60k base price and my dealer mentioned 58-60k base when I put down the deposit.

I think the CTS-V is AWESOME guys and probably worth it even at $80k but this is the way I feel... I am definitely out if it's $70k.

ewill3rd
05-16-08, 07:48 AM
If you want the price to be lower, call up some representatives for the UAW and see if you can get them to lower the wages and benefits to something reasonable.
If they have to pay all the folks at the plant $40 an hour to put a quality performance sedan together it is going to cost money to sell them.

The price will be what it will be, I am sure based on how much it costs to produce, ship, and sell them with everyone getting their bits along the way... just like every other car I know of.
;)

the cadillac kid
05-16-08, 08:50 AM
One of the main reasons I was looking at the caddy in the first place was the incredible value the car would be at that $60k price.

Personally my problem with the car at $70k is that the standard CTS is $33k which for me makes it compete money wise with the BMW 3 series. I was looking at a new BMW M3 Sedan which has a $54k base price...when I heard the CTS-V would have a base of $60k I said wait a minute here...for $6k more I can get a car that's bigger and much more powerful...soo I rushed to the caddy dealer to give my deposit!! At $60k it's a no brainer but $70k I can drop back down to $54k and snag an M3 Sedan. I know the CTS-V is larger than the M3 sedan (and more powerful) but I am fine with the size of the M3 sedan and its 4.1 sec 0-60/ 12.6 sec 1/4 mile / 8:05 'ring time :)

I've been buying German for years.....Caddy is trying to steal customers from the big three Germans - Audi, BMW, and Benz. In order to steal me away I need to see that $60k price, otherwise I will play it safe and stick with what I know. :)

70k and I will ask my dealer for my deposit back. All the magazines mentioned a $60k base price and my dealer mentioned 58-60k base when I put down the deposit.

I think the CTS-V is AWESOME guys and probably worth it even at $80k but this is the way I feel... I am definitely out if it's $70k.

...soooooo, get it at the base price?

:thepan:

RightTurn
05-16-08, 09:19 AM
We still have no idea what the base price is. Only speculation.

gophaster
05-16-08, 01:28 PM
That's exactly what I plan to do...if the base price is $58-60k :thepan: I thought the thread was : "You've seen it. Would you pay 70K?" :thepan: :D



...soooooo, get it at the base price?

:thepan:

Kidhummer
05-16-08, 01:36 PM
$65k is my cut off

thebigjimsho
05-16-08, 01:49 PM
You have to pay to play. The first gen V was a good value at $50G. Now, you'll have a V with almost 50% more hp, a rear end that can handle it AND let you do burnouts, a MUCH MORE stylish interior, added go fast electronics, bigger wheels, better tires, more luxury appointments, Recaro seats and more.

If it bases at $60-62G and fills out at $70G, it's still a good value. Quit whining...really...

gophaster
05-16-08, 02:01 PM
SWEET :) That's perfect.

But the thread is would you pay $70k NOT...... $60k base / loaded at $70K.

The car could be $100k and I won't whine or be upset, I just won't buy it. ;)


You have to pay to play. The first gen V was a good value at $50G. Now, you'll have a V with almost 50% more hp, a rear end that can handle it AND let you do burnouts, a MUCH MORE stylish interior, added go fast electronics, bigger wheels, better tires, more luxury appointments, Recaro seats and more.

If it bases at $60-62G and fills out at $70G, it's still a good value. Quit whining...really...

concorso
05-16-08, 04:07 PM
$65k is my cut offWeren't you the cock who said he had all these cars and that my poor ass couldnt afford anything?


To the general population: The V will cost you $10k/year on insurance, and another $1k every year on tires and fluids, at least! But yet you wont buy a V simply because the MSRP may or may not be 5k too high?
As long as the cost undercuts the M5's by a slight margin, I think its a bargain. We're getting significantly more car for the base price, whatever it will be. The fully loaded price will include options never seen on a V, and serious options they are!

What other car of similar style will you get for less then $80k?

thebigjimsho
05-16-08, 04:42 PM
TBJS, your fonts are shrinking. :alchi:That is weird. I know I use that font for the V1 and V2 but on my end, the font looks fine all the way through...

MIACTSV
05-16-08, 05:15 PM
Weren't you the cock who said he had all these cars and that my poor ass couldnt afford anything?


To the general population: The V will cost you $10k/year on insurance, and another $1k every year on tires and fluids, at least! But yet you wont buy a V simply because the MSRP may or may not be 5k too high?
As long as the cost undercuts the M5's by a slight margin, I think its a bargain. We're getting significantly more car for the base price, whatever it will be. The fully loaded price will include options never seen on a V, and serious options they are!

What other car of similar style will you get for less then $80k?

I agree that the V2 is a great deal at 70K even 75K but where do you get that insurance will cost you $10k/year. I used to own an M3 and dident pay anywhere near that for Insurance and my brother owns a CLS63 AMG and doesnt pay anywere even close to that amount either.:hmm:

Silverspeed
05-16-08, 05:49 PM
The V will cost you $10k/year on insurance, and another $1k every year on tires and fluids, at least!

Now that's funny right there, I don't care who you are.

DRKSIDE
05-16-08, 06:04 PM
To the general population: The V will cost you $10k/year on insurance, and another $1k every year on tires and fluids, at least! But yet you wont buy a V simply because the MSRP may or may not be 5k too high?

Did someone lose a zero? I think I found it!

Insurance on the car will not be that high if the driver is 12 yrs old!:cookoo:

RightTurn
05-16-08, 06:11 PM
Concorso must have a hell of a driving record. :lol:

urbanski
05-16-08, 06:45 PM
worse than mine

RightTurn
05-16-08, 07:00 PM
:umno:

the cadillac kid
05-16-08, 07:18 PM
:fence:

urbanski
05-16-08, 08:06 PM
ack.

Kidhummer
05-16-08, 09:20 PM
Weren't you the cock who said he had all these cars and that my poor ass couldnt afford anything?


To the general population: The V will cost you $10k/year on insurance, and another $1k every year on tires and fluids, at least! But yet you wont buy a V simply because the MSRP may or may not be 5k too high?
As long as the cost undercuts the M5's by a slight margin, I think its a bargain. We're getting significantly more car for the base price, whatever it will be. The fully loaded price will include options never seen on a V, and serious options they are!

What other car of similar style will you get for less then $80k?

HAHA you just proved that you are such a moron and nothing you say has any credibility. Now everyone is making fun of you.. Insurance $10,000/year???? what kind of drugs do you use? maybe that would be true if the V cost a couple million dollars or maybe you had your license suspended liek 10 times and you got a DUI or maybe you are 12 years old and should get off this forum.

And I wouldnt pay more than $65k for the new V. I think a $15,000 increase from $50k is more than enough to cover the cost of the supercharger and new parts. But thats just me, im sure some people would even pay $80k for it.

BTW, <Urbanski> you should really ban Corcoso who starts trouble in every thread and makes irrelevant, unnecessary posts that make no sense.

[quote=concorso;1517270]Weren't you the cock who said he had all these cars and that my poor ass couldnt afford anything?

???When did I say I have all these cars??? especially considering the GT-R and 09 V are not available yet..seriously lay off the bottle

thebigjimsho
05-16-08, 09:54 PM
sE9AwR0awVQ

Kidhummer
05-16-08, 10:24 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qbdim66k8d0&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5O14JsggUFI&feature=related

First video must be Concorso and the second is probably his wife.

**LET ME APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE TO THE MODERATORS, I JUST COULDN'T HELP MYSELF. I will not steer off topic again : )

parexa
05-16-08, 10:37 PM
70k thats dirt cheap, considering M5 starts @ 134k usd here

MIACTSV
05-16-08, 10:43 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qbdim66k8d0&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5O14JsggUFI&feature=related

First video must be Concorso and the second is probably his wife.

**LET ME APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE TO THE MODERATORS, I JUST COULDN'T HELP MYSELF. I will not steer off topic again : )

The second video is fantastic :histeric:

the cadillac kid
05-17-08, 02:24 AM
And I wouldnt pay more than $65k for the new V.
so dont

I think a $15,000 increase from $50k is more than enough to cover the cost of the supercharger and new parts. But thats just me

it does.


it doesn't however cover the EXTRA "i must have this because my ass is too good for an already comfortable seat which i would not have bitched about had i not known it was available" or all the other EXTRAAAs.
but thats just me




*edit*
again, NO PRICE HAS BEEN RELEASED BY GM, these are all speculations.

synergy408
05-17-08, 02:49 AM
I have a 100k 997 and my insurance is about 2k per year....not sure what your smokin dude.

Kidhummer
05-17-08, 03:59 AM
so dont

it does.


it doesn't however cover the EXTRA "i must have this because my ass is too good for an already comfortable seat which i would not have bitched about had i not known it was available" or all the other EXTRAAAs.
but thats just me




*edit*
again, NO PRICE HAS BEEN RELEASED BY GM, these are all speculations.

um yea..I have no idea what you are talking about man..your ass is too good for what?? cmon.. is this Concorso under another name??? either im drunk or your comment doesnt make sense..its making my head spin trying to understand it. please refer to the videos i posted above and be a man and tell me its you lol

urbanski
05-17-08, 08:19 AM
BTW, <Urbanski> you should really ban Corcoso who starts trouble in every thread and makes irrelevant, unnecessary posts that make no sense.



report the posts, i cant read everything
besides, i can ban people for being stupid

csp3000
05-17-08, 06:31 PM
$70K would be too much money for the CTS-V.

Heck, the STS-V is $80K. They have to differentiate the two from each other more than just $10K.

SG

The STS and the DTS are going away in 2010 i believe and becoming a single model that is designed to compete with the S class Mercedes and 7 series BMW. So in theory the CTS has moved to the spot where the STS is at now.

dqw1
05-17-08, 07:36 PM
so dont

it does.


it doesn't however cover the EXTRA "i must have this because my ass is too good for an already comfortable seat which i would not have bitched about had i not known it was available" or all the other EXTRAAAs.
but thats just me




*edit*
again, NO PRICE HAS BEEN RELEASED BY GM, these are all speculations.
So do you still think the 09V looks ricer?

HiTechRV
05-18-08, 12:06 AM
The STS and the DTS are going away in 2010 i believe and becoming a single model that is designed to compete with the S class Mercedes and 7 series BMW. So in theory the CTS has moved to the spot where the STS is at now.

Yes the manual CTS-V is the follow up to the old one, and the auto is the follow up to the STS-V IMO.

I hear the replacement for the combined STS and DTS is the STD. Must be going after a younger market!

thebigjimsho
05-18-08, 03:22 AM
I'm hoping that since the CTS is now in STS territory when it comes to size, that the new "STD", as HiTech so lovingly calls it, will be big enough to serve as a livery vehicle or at least offer an L version. And get it by '10.

gothicaleigh
05-18-08, 10:38 AM
Bam! Herpes.

http://www.wired.com/news/images/full/cadillac_16_2_f.jpg

http://info.detnews.com/dn/joyrides/2003/naias03/cadillac16.jpg

Taking notice of Cadillac's latest design direction, your STD will most likely be a production version of the above.

the cadillac kid
05-18-08, 02:50 PM
DQ- not after seeing it in person :drool:

dqw1
05-18-08, 03:26 PM
It is sharp!

thebigjimsho
05-18-08, 05:42 PM
Bam! Herpes.

http://www.wired.com/news/images/full/cadillac_16_2_f.jpg

http://info.detnews.com/dn/joyrides/2003/naias03/cadillac16.jpg

Taking notice of Cadillac's latest design direction, your STD will most likely be a production version of the above.That'll work...

CIWS
05-19-08, 08:40 AM
Damn that is a big car.

JEM
05-19-08, 04:07 PM
I'm hoping that since the CTS is now in STS territory when it comes to size, that the new "STD", as HiTech so lovingly calls it, will be big enough to serve as a livery vehicle or at least offer an L version. And get it by '10.

The CTS isn't in STS territory in size, it's still right in with everything else in the 5er/E-class/Accord/etc. size range.

As for the STD, does that mean a new range of colors? Red Red Rash? Testicular Blue? Oozing Discharge Beige?

"That's not orange peel, that's the new Venereal Wart Texture Tri-Coat"

thebigjimsho
05-19-08, 07:02 PM
The CTS isn't in STS territory in size, it's still right in with everything else in the 5er/E-class/Accord/etc. size range.

As for the STD, does that mean a new range of colors? Red Red Rash? Testicular Blue? Oozing Discharge Beige?

"That's not orange peel, that's the new Venereal Wart Texture Tri-Coat":histeric:


As for sizes, the new CTS has just about as much useable space as the current STS.

JEM
05-19-08, 09:31 PM
:histeric:

As for sizes, the new CTS has just about as much useable space as the current STS.

In terms of interior space the old one wasn't quite up to the competition, particularly in rear headroom, so maybe the new one gets closer to parity with the 5er BMW, etc.

gophaster
05-20-08, 12:47 AM
The CTS is actually almost exactly the same size as the 5 series....which is impressive. It also means it's not as big the "big cars" 7 series, Audi A8, etc (meaning Caddy should still continue to have a larger car)...

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg104/igophaster/Bimmer/M5-Sedan-Side.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg104/igophaster/Bimmer/CTSsize.jpg

the cadillac kid
05-20-08, 12:49 AM
^^ interesting!

gophaster
05-20-08, 12:54 AM
Yup...I had not realized it until I pulled the specs up on both a couple days ago. I had seen both/sat in both in person but for some reason it seems like the 5 series is bigger. But it's just not the case.


^^ interesting!

JEM
05-20-08, 04:22 AM
Yup...I had not realized it until I pulled the specs up on both a couple days ago. I had seen both/sat in both in person but for some reason it seems like the 5 series is bigger. But it's just not the case.

...and those same numbers cover fifty or sixty other cars from the Ford Fusion to the Lexus GS to the Accord. If you go back five or ten years the vehicles in that segment were typically about 3in shorter.

The most recent couple Camry designs look like minivans, but they're still around 189in long IIRC. Fat, ugly, and truly insipid driving experiences, but hell, lots of folks eat at McDonald's because they fear inconsistency more than they dislike mediocrity.

gophaster
05-20-08, 11:55 AM
I agree. I think the size has gone up over the years because everyone is constantly trying to outdo each other. Up until recently BMW had a 3series, 5series, 7series. The 3 series has grown a bit over the years so recently they added a 1series to fill the lower gap. The current 5series has been out for a while now and I would not be suprised if the next generation is bigger. Although the CTS is now the size of a 5series I still don't think it's large enough to cover the 7series, A8, Sclass etc...


...and those same numbers cover fifty or sixty other cars from the Ford Fusion to the Lexus GS to the Accord. If you go back five or ten years the vehicles in that segment were typically about 3in shorter.

The most recent couple Camry designs look like minivans, but they're still around 189in long IIRC. Fat, ugly, and truly insipid driving experiences, but hell, lots of folks eat at McDonald's because they fear inconsistency more than they dislike mediocrity.

The Tony Show
05-20-08, 12:28 PM
Although the CTS is now the size of a 5series I still don't think it's large enough to cover the 7series, A8, Sclass etc...

The CTS is not "now" the size of a 5 series- it always has been. The 2008 rides on an identical wheelbase to the 2007, is less than an inch longer and has a smaller trunk.

Why people can't seen to fathom this fact and continue to think the CTS was ever 3-series size is beyond me.

JEM
05-20-08, 08:43 PM
The CTS is not "now" the size of a 5 series- it always has been. The 2008 rides on an identical wheelbase to the 2007, is less than an inch longer and has a smaller trunk.

Why people can't seen to fathom this fact and continue to think the CTS was ever 3-series size is beyond me.

Because GM was trying to sell them for 3-series money, and they were the ones making the comparison to the 3er.

The question is this - with the CTS a reasonable success, will GM produce a serious (by that I mean rear-drive) 3er competitor? If you look at BMW's numbers, they've got to be closing in on a million 3ers a year worldwide, about 300K 5s, and a bit over 100K 7s.

Ford did a few things very right when they bought out Jaguar, and then a lot of things very badly, and one of the worst was thinking they could sell that delicate-looking, sideways-engine X-type against the 3-series.

MacOSR
05-21-08, 05:27 PM
The CTS is not "now" the size of a 5 series- it always has been. The 2008 rides on an identical wheelbase to the 2007, is less than an inch longer and has a smaller trunk.

Why people can't seen to fathom this fact and continue to think the CTS was ever 3-series size is beyond me.

The CTS is not the same size as a 5-Series. It is certainly smaller although I doubt it is as small as the 3-Series.

JEM
05-21-08, 05:45 PM
The CTS is not the same size as a 5-Series. It is certainly smaller although I doubt it is as small as the 3-Series.

Go look at the numbers. It is EXACTLY the same size as the current-model 5-series (and 3in longer than my two E39 5s - a '98 540i and an '00 M5), etc. And virtually all of the other competitors in that segment - the E-class Benz, the Lexus GS, the now-defunct Lincoln LS, the Jags (old S-type and new XF), etc. The Pontiac G8 (Holden Commodore) is fractionally larger (and as is typical of Australian cars, has a ton of back seat room, hell, a ton of room everywhere.)

Historically, one of Detroit's problems has been always having the biggest car in its supposed price class. I guess some see that as a good thing, and maybe in some segments it is, but the 3-series largely sells to people who don't WANT a bigger car.

Holden's doing a pretty wagon version of the Commodore. I could really get into having a G8 GXP wagon and a CTS-V wagon. Come on, GM, it ain't that hard...

thebigjimsho
05-21-08, 08:00 PM
The CTS is not the same size as a 5-Series. It is certainly smaller although I doubt it is as small as the 3-Series.Yeah, let's just ignore all the pictograms posted above. Same size.

the cadillac kid
05-22-08, 12:55 AM
NO! its an illllllluuussion! made up propaganda by THE MAN. must, deny, reality!

gophaster
05-22-08, 01:00 AM
I agree... Also, the media tends to compare the CTS to the 3 series as well. I believe like you say that was GM's intention and that is backed up by being very similarly priced as well.... Priced like the "smaller" competitors' vehicles but the size of their midsize cars...has value written all over it.

I think the 3 series (A4,C class, etc) size is a pretty darn important market. I come from an Audi A4 and was interested in either stepping up to the RS4 or M3 Sedan...that was before I heard about the new V. It would be cool if caddy offered something the size of a 3 series with a lot more muscle too like the new V. That would then also bump the CTS to it's rightfully deserved 5 series comparable status and the media would have no choice but to accept that.


Because GM was trying to sell them for 3-series money, and they were the ones making the comparison to the 3er.

The question is this - with the CTS a reasonable success, will GM produce a serious (by that I mean rear-drive) 3er competitor? If you look at BMW's numbers, they've got to be closing in on a million 3ers a year worldwide, about 300K 5s, and a bit over 100K 7s.

Ford did a few things very right when they bought out Jaguar, and then a lot of things very badly, and one of the worst was thinking they could sell that delicate-looking, sideways-engine X-type against the 3-series.

JEM
05-22-08, 03:07 AM
I think the 3 series (A4,C class, etc) size is a pretty darn important market. I come from an Audi A4 and was interested in either stepping up to the RS4 or M3 Sedan...that was before I heard about the new V. It would be cool if caddy offered something the size of a 3 series with a lot more muscle too like the new V. That would then also bump the CTS to it's rightfully deserved 5 series comparable status and the media would have no choice but to accept that.

GM's got the BLS in Europe, it's a FWD Saab 9-3 with some creases ironed into the sheetmetal. It's a poor-selling also-ran, trying to sell primarily on price in a segment where the clear pecking order is 3-series, C-class, A4 and everyone else competes for the scraps. The BLS would appear to be a junior-grade Jag X-type.

GM mistreated Saab horribly in the '90s. Much as I love the old 9000 there's no reason it should have been on the market a dozen years, the AWD drivetrain that'll trickle out in the 2009 9-3 X-Drive is what they should have had in 1996, and they could have easily pulled an XC70/Allroad competitor off an AWD 9-5 wagon.

HiTechRV
05-22-08, 10:23 PM
I had a recent 93 Aero vert and it was an amazing vehicle. No need for AWD though the Turbo X AWD looks fun too.

verbs
05-23-08, 01:19 PM
Nope; I was looking for closer to $60k. Guess we'll see.
$60K? Are you nuts? You're talking another 150+ hp via a supercharged engine, a much nicer interior, better brakes....and consider that in 2004 this car MSRPd for $53K or so, the dollar's value tanked, and you were hoping for $60K for the 2009 version? :histeric::histeric::histeric:

gophaster
05-23-08, 02:14 PM
:histeric::histeric::histeric:, totally...???....except he's not the only one "nuts" enough to think the car will be around $60k....

Car and Driver...Three Times

"We mentioned budget constraints, which bear directly on the bottom line. With the official launch still at least six or seven months away, Cadillac has no price forecast, official or otherwise. We expect the numbers to start at about $60,000."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/furious_four_doors/2009_cadillac_cts_v_car_news


"Cadillac is absolutely silent on pricing for the new CTS-V, but the word on the street is that it will enter the market priced somewhere near $60,000 to start. If the General can make that happen, it will represent a bang-for-the-buck miracle."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/furious_four_doors/competitors_in_the_crosshairs_2009_cadillac_cts_v_ feature__1/2009_cadillac_cts_v_feature


"The wild card in this race is the recently revealed Cadillac CTS-V, which, with its M5-shaming 550 supercharged horsepower, would be nothing short of a coup if it, as we expect, were to enter the fray in the same $55,000-to-$60,000 ballpark as the M3 and IS F."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/bmw_performance_m_power/m3_sedan_priced_cheaper_than_lexus_is_f_audi_rs_4_ car_news



MotorTrend

" Base Price $62,000 (est)"

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0803_2009_cadillac_cts_v/specifications.html



Heck it's even in Wikipedia...

"The 2009 CTS-V has an estimated base price of $60,000(US), and should be available for purchase in the fourth quarter of 2008."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_CTS_V-Series



$60K? Are you nuts? You're talking another 150+ hp via a supercharged engine, a much nicer interior, better brakes....and consider that in 2004 this car MSRPd for $53K or so, the dollar's value tanked, and you were hoping for $60K for the 2009 version? :histeric::histeric::histeric:

the cadillac kid
05-23-08, 02:55 PM
:histeric: :histeric: :histeric:
haha RT is a "he"

the cadillac kid
05-23-08, 03:01 PM
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/428/rtrs9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/428/rtrs9.th.jpg (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rtrs9.jpg)

gophaster
05-23-08, 06:00 PM
darn that is sooooo funny....:histeric: :histeric: :histeric: ...guess one has gotta be on their toes around here..... Sorry about that RightTurn....I think my point is still valid regardless of gender...no?



:histeric: :histeric: :histeric:
haha RT is a "he"

RightTurn
05-23-08, 11:35 PM
$60K? Are you nuts? You're talking another 150+ hp via a supercharged engine, a much nicer interior, better brakes....and consider that in 2004 this car MSRPd for $53K or so, the dollar's value tanked, and you were hoping for $60K for the 2009 version? :histeric::histeric::histeric:

:umno: Actually, I'm not nuts. Are you? Oh, and FWIW, the question is "Would you PAY $70k". My answer is NO, I'd pay CLOSER to $60k.

gothicaleigh
05-24-08, 12:21 AM
I think Cadillac is going to surprise many of the people in this thread with the pricing. GM is seriously looking to make a statement with this car.
The revised CTS placed them firmly among the competition.
Then the V's 'Ring time made it impossible to ignore.
The price is going to seal it.


Personally, I hope they pull some ballsy "Standard of the World" advertising just to rub it in when it finally happens. :D

v84life
05-24-08, 01:22 AM
I think Cadillac is going to surprise many of the people in this thread with the pricing. GM is seriously looking to make a statement with this car.
The revised CTS placed them firmly among the competition.
Then the V's 'Ring time made it impossible to ignore.
The price is going to seal it.


Personally, I hope they pull some ballsy "Standard of the World" advertising just to rub it in when it finally happens. :D

Like the sound of that. Just got the chills.

JEM
05-24-08, 05:04 PM
Like the sound of that. Just got the chills.

Let's approach it this way: who is GM trying to sell this car to?

If they decide to sell it for less than I paid for my M5 in December 1999 (I paid sticker at $70K, not the $20K-over-list that was common for the things in this area at the time) it'll be a stone bargain.

But...will they sell any more at $60K than they would at $70K?

How many would-be buyers that are cost-sensitive enough that the $10K will chase them away aren't going to be scared off anyway by the cost of operation and the gas-guzzler tax?

It may be that their production costs are so well controlled (I'd bet the LSA doesn't cost any more to build than the DI 3.6, even with the blower - the extra money's in the brakes and the tires and the diff and the seats and maybe the transmission and engine ancillaries like cooling) that they can make a boatload at $60K per unit.

We'll see what they say.

Maximusthefarmer
05-25-08, 07:21 AM
Back to the 3 series competitor discussion..now that the CTS coupe is greenlighted and the CTS-V coupe is a nobrainer anyone know the size/pricing on that? I can't imagine a coupe version have a hugely different price tag but if they want to compete with people who want a smaller car...even with only two doors the way it looks I think it has a chance to snag some of that market...IMHO

StealthCTSVJJL
05-25-08, 01:03 PM
I think 70k is too much, and it will probably come in for less, even the Recaros are optional, this is obviously to keep the base price down and competitive. Lets keep in mind that despite the fact that this car will slay all current production super sedans, it is still a Cadillac and doesn't carry the prestige factor of a Bimmer, Merc or even Audi, thats a marketing reality. 95% of the people who I run into don't even know what a V Cadillac is, they assume I have a V6 CTS with big tires and racy exhaust, and are usually stunned upon seeing a manual transmission, much less a big Corvette engine under the hood, many have asked how much I paid to have the Vette engine installed and who did the job. The M cars, AMG and to a certain extent the Audi S and RS models have been around longer and non-enthusiasts actually recognize them, that is not the case of the V series, and Cadillac certainly must have learned from the V series STS and XLR, both have been very sluggish sellers because of their very high price (arguably lower than competitions performance is also a factor). That said this V2 is the type of "Breakthrough" car that will begin putting Cadillac on the ultra luxury performance map, and pricing it comparably with the M3, IS-F and C63, while offering performance on a much higher level, will put it on the cover of many magazines and finally raise some eye brows among those elitist BMW and Mercedes owners creating the type of buzz the V Series needs.

cpc
05-25-08, 04:51 PM
Well said.

Maximusthefarmer
05-26-08, 01:11 AM
I would and will within the next two years, pay 70k if that is what it takes. I drive a V1 and knowing that GM addressed all the issues the V1 has, plus 150 extra hp? Count me in.
The very fact that the Cadillac performance division is still a bit of an underdog appeals to me. I go to school on Long Island, and seriously, I don't even notice BMW, Benz or Porsche performance division cars anymore, they are everywhere. I still have only seen two other V's.
And two more things that make it worth the money to me are one) Manual Transmission. Trying getting that on an AMG or SRT-8(except Challenger supposedly). Two) Yeah an Audi RS4 or M5 might be more recognized, but they are not LSX engines. The LSX engine in all it iterations is a proven, much more readily moddable engine. I don't want to pay 8000 for headers just for the privelege of owning a Benz.
And if people know the V, they have a hell of a reaction when they see one. And if they don't....they find out..which is half the fun if you ask me

jordanfsl
05-26-08, 03:46 PM
65k loaded would be my limit I think...that's a 20k add over the normal DI CTS.

The Tony Show
05-26-08, 04:25 PM
If I could figure out a way to add 250hp, brembo brakes with 2 piece rotors, a urethane bodykit, 19" wheels, heavy duty transmission, cast iron diff, Recaro seats, suede steering wheel and shifter, magnetic ride control and PTM to a V6 CTS for $20k AND retain full factory warranty, then I would agree with the people who throw this out as a legitimate comparison.

Since I can't, I don't.

the cadillac kid
05-26-08, 08:23 PM
it is still a Cadillac and doesn't carry the prestige factor of a Bimmer, Merc or even Audi, thats a marketing reality.
what!!?

yeah i always hear people say, "its the audi of all steaks"


95% of the people who I run into don't even know what a V Cadillac is,

The M cars, AMG and to a certain extent the Audi S and RS models have been around longer and non-enthusiasts actually recognize them, that is not the case of the V series



what??
:hmm:

Maximusthefarmer
05-26-08, 08:34 PM
But you have to consider the phrase " the cadillac of whatever" originated at a time when Cadillacs were known for the qaulity of their vehicles..a quality which until recently was lacking from their production lineup. Although I don't agree I think the point was there is still a stigma that has to be overcome of Cadillacs lacking performance and handling. Not only that, but all American muscle cars have a stigma of being good for nothing but a straight line, which a lot of them are not. But the V1 and the V2 are tuned to handle at the ring and do so quite well

the cadillac kid
05-26-08, 09:14 PM
umm, audi is shit after a couple years.
our ML gets two thumbs down and maintenance is steep.
i dont know anything about BMWs, so i wont comment on them.



the term "it is the cadillac of ...." can still be heard today.

Maximusthefarmer
05-26-08, 10:03 PM
Yeah never said you couldnt hear the phrase today try reading the post...the point is there is a gap between the public perception of cadillac when that phrase came about and public perception now..which is the point of people who are arguing about the prestige factor of other cars compared to Cadillac.

Once again, I don't fully agree with what they are saying because I like having an uncommon car and I think it does have prestige factor both by those who recognize it and by those who don't but quickly realize there is something significant about V badging.

And I was not saying anything about Cadillac reliabilty compared to the other brands, although I have had a lot of problems with my V I still love it once again just commenting on the perception of Cadillac reliability. Most luxury brands have reliabilty issues and any performance car is going to have issues its just the way it is, if you want the power you deal with it

Dr Chill
05-26-08, 11:02 PM
I cannot think of a car less reliable than my 2003.5 E55.

Problems during the first four years of ownership under 50,000 miles all fixed under warranty:

1) Transmission replaced twice
2) Radiator replaced twice
3) Supercharger pulley engagement switch replaced twice
4) A/C failed three times, the last repair taking 3 weeks requiring replacement of all lines, compressor, and evaporator
5) Front struts replaced after finding car resting on front tires sitting in my garage

But when it was running well, I loved the car and still have it. MB actually gave me a free extended warranty for all the troubles we had. Will replace it with the 2009 V. Certainly couldn't be worse.

the cadillac kid
05-27-08, 02:44 AM
the point is there is a gap between the public perception of cadillac when that phrase came about and public perception now.


i'm not trying to argue, but people still say it because they still believe it. The perception of cadillac is still strong among the public, if it comes up in a conversation that you have a cadillac, the reaction that you see is much much different than if you had said bmw, mercedes, or audi. The reaction shows the reality of what most people's perception of the cadillac brand is.

Maximusthefarmer
05-27-08, 11:25 AM
point taken

besides we all know what the truth is, I'd rather drive a Cadillac any day

StealthCTSVJJL
05-27-08, 11:39 AM
I totally agree my point was that Caddy still needs to make inroads in that market as far as prestige, and the V2 is going to rub AMG and M Owners in the face with a performance level that is well above anything they offer with 4 doors regardless of the price.
Personally I love my 05'. I love the small block sound and I love the manual tranny and the fact that it is sort of a rogue in a tuxedo, kinda like the original James Bond, big and tough ready to mix it up anytime but well dressed and can order a Vodka Martini stirred not shaken.

the cadillac kid
05-27-08, 05:35 PM
point taken

besides we all know what the truth is, I'd rather drive a Cadillac any day


I totally agree my point was that Caddy still needs to make inroads in that market as far as prestige, and the V2 is going to rub AMG and M Owners in the face with a performance level that is well above anything they offer with 4 doors regardless of the price.
Personally I love my 05'. I love the small block sound and I love the manual tranny and the fact that it is sort of a rogue in a tuxedo, kinda like the original James Bond, big and tough ready to mix it up anytime but well dressed and can order a Vodka Martini stirred not shaken.

:highfive:

copter
05-27-08, 07:53 PM
Newbie here and was thinking about the 09 V but with an estimated $70k and still a lot of 07 V's still sitting on lots, I may reconsider. I'm wondering if GM is going to bring the price point lower since the 07 didn't do so well. They'd sell a hell of a lot more at 50-55 and we all know there's a ton of margin there.

StealthV
05-27-08, 08:31 PM
The price needs to go the other way. Cadillac < > Wallyworld.

CTSV_510
05-27-08, 09:47 PM
Newbie here and was thinking about the 09 V but with an estimated $70k and still a lot of 07 V's still sitting on lots, I may reconsider. I'm wondering if GM is going to bring the price point lower since the 07 didn't do so well. They'd sell a hell of a lot more at 50-55 and we all know there's a ton of margin there.

There's no way they'll sell for less than $60k. This car is a whole different beast than the 1st Gen.

HiTechRV
05-27-08, 10:41 PM
This is a halo car - they will sell out production. No need to K-Mart the price.

Kidhummer
05-28-08, 10:08 AM
With the economy the way it is now and gas prices quickly approaching

the $5 mark, production won't sell out. IF the price is too high people

just won't buy. Read this whole thread and look at how many people said

they won't buy if the car is $70k. Yes GM made a lot of improvements to the

car, and yes it's a whole of a lot better than the V1, but the price must still

be reasonable. $65k fully loaded is reasonable. If GM is smart they will keep

the price low. Think about how many V's do you see on the road now? I

rarely see them which is a good thing but it goes to show that it is not the

most popular car and that was at $50k... Now imagine $70k+

StealthV
05-28-08, 10:17 AM
For me, the price of gasoline isn't a player in the purchasing decision. With a $60-100k purchase price, one has the disposable income to pay the extra $100 a month to cover the gasoline bill.

Cadillac has failed over years by being the K-Mart of brands when compared to the import competition. Broken record on >>> If the V is truly the equal of the M5, it needs to be priced the same. Simple Marketing 101. Anything less is a K-Mart discount for something that doesn't live up to brand expectations.

With $8/gallon, there will be less traffic on the roads. :D

CIWS
05-28-08, 10:40 AM
Newbie here and was thinking about the 09 V but with an estimated $70k and still a lot of 07 V's still sitting on lots, I may reconsider.

Where ? The dealerships around here sold out of 07s months ago. There's 22 Cadillac dealerships in the 100 mile radius and none of them have any new CTS-Vs Finding a new CTS-V is no easy trick anymore.

CIWS
05-28-08, 10:50 AM
For me, the price of gasoline isn't a player in the purchasing decision. With a $60-100k purchase price, one has the disposable income to pay the extra $100 a month to cover the gasoline bill.

It didn't used to be for me, but in all honesty it will more than likely be two years from now when I would be back in a position to purchase a different car (baring an accident). Now if I drove more than one vehicle it wouldn't matter as much. But using a single daily driver and gas more than likely 7.00+ a gallon then, I'm betting it will be a factor in the decision making process. Gas won't be the only thing more expensive, almost every cost will have gone up by a significant percentage. So factoring only an increased fuel cost won't be an accurate projection of the overall impact of an economy struggling to deal with gas at that kind of pricing. Plus that doesn't factor in things like world events or high level hurricanes causing gas to spike before two years time.

the cadillac kid
05-28-08, 07:47 PM
With the economy the way it is now and gas prices quickly approaching

the $5 mark, production won't sell out. IF the price is too high people

just won't buy. Read this whole thread and look at how many people said

they won't buy if the car is $70k. Yes GM made a lot of improvements to the

car, and yes it's a whole of a lot better than the V1, but the price must still

be reasonable. $65k fully loaded is reasonable. If GM is smart they will keep

the price low. Think about how many V's do you see on the road now? I

rarely see them which is a good thing but it goes to show that it is not the

most popular car and that was at $50k... Now imagine $70k+

more people are going to buy this car than you think.
especially now that theres much more hp, more luxury, more fame, and an available auto tranny.

70k, comfortably loaded, very reasonable.

V-Love
05-29-08, 01:55 AM
more people are going to buy this car than you think.
especially now that theres much more hp, more luxury, more fame, and an available auto tranny.

70k, comfortably loaded, very reasonable.

I hate to agree but I do. The secret is out for sure. Now that regular joes can mash the pedal and hold on, they will probably sell a lot more. Plus, they are crazy fast. Basically, what he ^ said. I just wish they would max out at 65K with all that fancy pop tart nav and recaro stuff(and base at 59K).

JEM
05-29-08, 02:41 AM
I hate to agree but I do. The secret is out for sure. Now that regular joes can mash the pedal and hold on, they will probably sell a lot more. Plus, they are crazy fast. Basically, what he ^ said. I just wish they would max out at 65K with all that fancy pop tart nav and recaro stuff(and base at 59K).

The question here is how many 'regular joes' that would pay $60K or $65K but not $70K are prepared to pay several thousand in gas-guzzler taxes on top of the sticker and feed a 16mpg (guessing) gasoline habit at $4+ a gallon?

I still say GM needs to do some 'right brain/left brain' packages where they'll sell you a Z06 and an Aveo, or a CTS-V and a Volt, or whatever, for one bundled price...:)

StealthV
05-29-08, 09:27 AM
The V isn't a regular Joe machine; that's where something like the G8 fits in the market.

Pricing it around $85k is the only way to get MB and BMW owners out of their hotrod Euro machines. Otherwise they'll keep driving their $100k M5s and AMGs and scoff at the yet again cheap Cadillac.

This market segment is about status - The car has the goods; the sticker price must match (along with dealer/factory support during and after the sale).

Just say no to K-Mart kidnapping of the V.

HushH
05-29-08, 12:17 PM
more people are going to buy this car than you think.
especially now that theres much more hp, more luxury, more fame, and an available auto tranny.

70k, comfortably loaded, very reasonable.

I agree that there will be more buyers simply on the fact of the available auto alone. However, there seems to be a general trend here of moving to more reasonably-priced, fuel-efficient vehicles across the board. I don't think a $65k vs $70k loaded price is going to make much of a difference in sales though. $85k would be the end of the V.

StealthCTSVJJL
05-29-08, 12:18 PM
The V isn't a regular Joe machine; that's where something like the G8 fits in the market.

Pricing it around $85k is the only way to get MB and BMW owners out of their hotrod Euro machines. Otherwise they'll keep driving their $100k M5s and AMGs and scoff at the yet again cheap Cadillac.

This market segment is about status - The car has the goods; the sticker price must match (along with dealer/factory support during and after the sale).

Just say no to K-Mart kidnapping of the V.

You bring up a very good point about how these elitist BMW and Mercedes drivers think, to them if you paid 100k it somehow has to be better, faster and quicker, regardless of HP numbers, let's face it the vast majority of AMG and M owners have never taken their vehicles over 100, most just cruise around as though they are unbeatable. Most of those guys will never go to a track day, and to them quarter mile is the distance to their local favorite bistro. It's all about the emblem. Caddy will get there with better and faster products but it does take time, and yeah probably higher prices, but the cars must deliver the goods not like the STS v and XLR v which fall short of the intended competetion as far as performance goes. Once Caddy gets voted to Car and Drivers top 10 5 years in a row and the V becomes an incumbent champ in comparison tests for a few years, then the V emblem will become the status symbol that the M and AMG emblems are. As a former AMG owner I can tell you my emblem was stolen more than once, so far no one is clamoring for the V emblems. But they will, the V2 is a cruise missle headed straight for Munich and Stuttgart.

MIACTSV
05-29-08, 12:34 PM
The V isn't a regular Joe machine; that's where something like the G8 fits in the market.

Pricing it around $85k is the only way to get MB and BMW owners out of their hotrod Euro machines. Otherwise they'll keep driving their $100k M5s and AMGs and scoff at the yet again cheap Cadillac.

This market segment is about status - The car has the goods; the sticker price must match (along with dealer/factory support during and after the sale).

Just say no to K-Mart kidnapping of the V.

If paying 100K makes BMW M and AMG drivers feel good then so be it. I would rather drive a blue light special V2 and blow their doors off anytime I want without having to go to the computer and set all sorts of parameters to make the car access all of the availiable power as you have to do in an M5.

:burn:

Kidhummer
05-29-08, 12:51 PM
[quote=MIACTSV;1532151]If paying 100K makes BMW M and AMG drivers feel good then so be it. I would rather drive a blue light special V2 and blow their doors off anytime I want without having to go to the computer and set all sorts of parameters to make the car access all of the availiable power as you have to do in an M5.



:yeah:

JEM
05-29-08, 03:31 PM
The V isn't a regular Joe machine; that's where something like the G8 fits in the market.

Pricing it around $85k is the only way to get MB and BMW owners out of their hotrod Euro machines. Otherwise they'll keep driving their $100k M5s and AMGs and scoff at the yet again cheap Cadillac.

I agree with your general premise - price the vehicle on a par with the content it provides. I think a pricetag in line with M3/RS4 pricing would be 'exclusive enough'.

At the same time, the car's got to be good enough to warrant the bucks.

As for G8 vs CTS-V - first one to offer a wagon gets me. One could do a G8 wagon (even if one weren't starting with a GXP) with a Katech or similar 7-liter motor and a containerload of good HSV suspension bits for comfortably under $70K, too...of course, one ought never assume that anything aftermarket is going to start off as well-sorted as a showroom-stock vehicle.

gothicaleigh
05-29-08, 07:37 PM
In somewhat related news...

BMW Will Raise U.S. Pricing to Combat Weak Dollar

http://news.windingroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/328idollaruphl.jpg

"BMW makes a good deal of its healthy profits every year from sales in the U.S., so when the value of the dollar takes a big hit, as it has been in recent months, the German automaker stands to lose a substantial amount of money.
At least that’s the argument BMW is making to go along with the news that, come June, it will be raising its prices in the U.S. by a robust one-percent. The company has taken a 17-percent loss of income for the first quarter of 2008 and is probably looking at the price increase as a way to stop that bleeding, as well as giving a slight boost to its residual values.
The one-percent bump shouldn’t make much difference for potential BMW buyers (for reference it constitutes a premium of just over $300 on a base 2008 328i), though it also won’t help the oft-heard criticisms of the brand being overpriced."

More... (http://news.windingroad.com/car-buying/bmw-will-raise-us-pricing-to-combat-weak-dollar/)

StealthV
05-30-08, 01:11 AM
So if snooty current M5/AMG owners aren't going to jump ship and buy a V at a price point significantly less, who will? Yep, that's right, the same type of people who bought V1. Those that want an American kick-ass hotrod sedan with a plethora of cost effective aftermarket mods. The slushbox alone is the single best thing GM did to increase potential V volume. If it weren't for that, V sales would probably struggle once again.

After a few miles under our V2 belts, we'll all complain on the this very forum about (insert yet to be discovered problems 1, 2, 3, .... here) and crappy dealerships (except for folks like Lindsay) in fixing said problems. Along with the praise to the V gods for giving us a kicks ass machine for track days, 3rd gear street races and warranty-voiding seat-of-the-pants-dyno gains of hop-up parts.

The V may be the performance king in the market but it is not the status king. This is the core of my belief in why we, the red, white and blue gearheads, will reap the benefit of the K-Mart pricing strategy while GM continues to struggle on how to compete with more expensive German and Japanese iron.

As mentioned before, K-Mart pricing is not the car's fault. It's time to thin the Cadillac dealership herd and bring those left standing up to "Standard of the World." It's ALL about the brand. But what the heck do I know, I don't play one on TV, I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, I'm just a real-life brand management guy.

Oh so close, yet so far away >>> http://seekingalpha.com/article/73319-gms-new-brand-realignment-strategy-is-a-lemon

Standard of the World. Do it or do not. There is no try.

v84life
05-30-08, 01:31 AM
I think I'm going to need a second job to pay for the mods. Starting with some serious custom wheels.:cool:

Waiting for this car is killing me......Feeling like a kid again:p

JEM
05-30-08, 01:57 AM
Oh so close, yet so far away >>> http://seekingalpha.com/article/73319-gms-new-brand-realignment-strategy-is-a-lemon


Someone at GM needs to read Alfred Sloan's "My Years at General Motors" and map out what the company's branding and pricing would be like if they followed the practices that Sloan laid out from the 1920s until post-WWII.

From the middle '50s onward GM (under Sloan's anointed succesors) allowed its upscale nameplates to drift downmarket in the pursuit of sales volume until by the late '70s there was barely any meaningful difference between them.

The problem is once you've given up the Cadillac, or even Oldsmobile, position in the market it's damn difficult to get it back. Unless you buy one of the competitors that fills the gaps you leave - Volvo is now what Mercury was to Ford from the '30s up into the '50s.

Given that fifty-year track record of neglect of their domestic nameplates GM has done a remarkable job pulling Cadillac as far out of the hole as they have. Granted, they've abandoned Oldsmobile and Buick has been rotting in its bedpan-brigade image (even as it's one of the strongest nameplates of all in China, where automotive memories were largely frozen in 1939 until five years ago.)

GM's history with Saab and Saturn is little better, both having been starved of new product nearly to their deaths in the '90s.

HiTechRV
05-31-08, 11:56 PM
I think it will go the other way - volume will be kept low and sell out. The price will go up - not as much as it should but enough to gag a few people who bought V1's new.

Almost everyone in the market for an $80K STS-V will buy an Auto CTS-V instead. It does almost everything better. Even the trunk is essentially the same size.

The magazines will go nuts over this car as they have on the GT-R, except the ones they test from Caddy will be real factory vehicles. Production will sell out even at $6/gallon gas IMO.


With the economy the way it is now and gas prices quickly approaching

the $5 mark, production won't sell out. IF the price is too high people

just won't buy. Read this whole thread and look at how many people said

they won't buy if the car is $70k. Yes GM made a lot of improvements to the

car, and yes it's a whole of a lot better than the V1, but the price must still

be reasonable. $65k fully loaded is reasonable. If GM is smart they will keep

the price low. Think about how many V's do you see on the road now? I

rarely see them which is a good thing but it goes to show that it is not the

most popular car and that was at $50k... Now imagine $70k+