: Nurburgring 7:59.32



jdogg
05-09-08, 02:05 PM
May 9, 2008

2009 CTS- V Blisters Nurburgring

By Ed

In testing today at Germany’s Nurburgring, Cadillac’s upcoming new 2009 CTS- V completed a lap of the legendary Nordschleife in 7:59.32. This blistering time appears to be the fastest ever publicly documented for a production sedan.


Cadillac is nearing the completion of testing for the highly anticipated CTS- V , the limited-edition high-performance model based on the award-winning CTS sport sedan. John Heinricy, executive with GM Performance Division and an acclaimed racing driver, piloted the CTS- V through its sub-8 minute lap. The car itself had no performance modifications outside of those planned for consumer production, which is scheduled to begin this fall.


Estimated at 550 horsepower, the CTS- V is at the moment going through the final stages of intensive testing and development. One of the realistic objectives of the Cadillac team is to make the CTS- V the world’s fastest production sedan, as a part of the overall goal to make the V -Series Cadillac’s ultimate expression of performance and technology. More updates will be released in the coming weeks as testing is finalized, including the car’s certified SAE power ratings, acceleration specifications and U.S.-market pricing.


Video documentation of the car’s breakthrough Nordschleife performance will be posted here in the coming days. Stay tuned.

http://cadillac.gmblogs.com/

gothicaleigh
05-09-08, 02:07 PM
w00t! :gothimanic:

figgie
05-09-08, 02:24 PM
Love the play on words.

What constitues production sedan?

urbanski
05-09-08, 02:31 PM
gt-r > *

gothicaleigh
05-09-08, 02:31 PM
Love the play on words.

What constitues production sedan?

I don't know, but it includes all of these:

8:09 - '08 Audi RS6 Avant
8:15 - BMW M5
8:19 - '04 CTS-V
8:31 - STS-V
8:40 - '08 CTS

Notice that it not just beats them, but destroys those times by 10 seconds or more.

HushH
05-09-08, 02:45 PM
Holy crap!!! Sub 8:00 is awesome for any prodcution car, but for a sedan it's amazing. :thumbsup:

Cadillac Tony
05-09-08, 02:48 PM
I don't know, but it includes all of these:

8:09 - '08 Audi RS6 Avant
8:15 - BMW M5
8:19 - '04 CTS-V
8:31 - STS-V
8:40 - '08 CTS

Notice that it not just beats them, but destroys those times by 10 seconds or more.

I believe the correct term is "suck the doors off". :D

This is just the beginning.

figgie
05-09-08, 02:50 PM
I don't know, but it includes all of these:

8:09 - '08 Audi RS6 Avant
8:15 - BMW M5
8:19 - '04 CTS-V
8:31 - STS-V
8:40 - '08 CTS

Notice that it not just beats them, but destroys those times by 10 seconds or more.

that is fine

but my issue.

since 2009 is not in full swing production. Just like the GT-r. It can not be called a production vehicle until there are NUMEROUS of them on the road, AND, a random sampling is taken from those produced cars and RAN.

Otherwise, The GT-r absolutely smacks this car plus almost every other car into the ground with a 7:38. That is a whopping 20 second, forget whooping, MASSACARE. And I am not using the bystandard timed one that came in at below 7:30!

RunningOnEMT
05-09-08, 02:53 PM
The GT-R isnt a sedan...


and yes it is a production sedan, production does not neccessarily entail that it is in mass production. it is being developed in final aesthetic form, as a commercial market vehicle and not as a purpose built racecar or competition vehicle.

ergo PRODUCTION sedan

HushH
05-09-08, 03:01 PM
...It can not be called a production vehicle until there are NUMEROUS of them on the road, AND, a random sampling is taken from those produced cars and RAN...

Not true, and I thought we were beyond comparing the V and the GT-R.

figgie
05-09-08, 03:05 PM
The GT-R isnt a sedan...


and yes it is a production sedan, production does not neccessarily entail that it is in mass production. it is being developed in final aesthetic form, as a commercial market vehicle and not as a purpose built racecar or competition vehicle.

ergo PRODUCTION sedan

does not neccesarily? You are kidding?

It either does or it doesn't. No inbetween. So which is it? (just be aware that this is a setup question).

as for comparo,

weight are about the same
power about the same (no SAE number for CTS-V so we will see).
priced about the same

One has two doors less. And because of that it is classified as a sport car instead of something else.

you guys are funny!

gothicaleigh
05-09-08, 03:10 PM
One has two doors less.

...and a leather covered shelf for people with no legs to sit upon.

figgie
05-09-08, 03:19 PM
...and a leather covered shelf for people with no legs to sit upon.


and mass cares what those 1678 kg is made of exactly why?

The Tony Show
05-09-08, 03:20 PM
SHUT UP ABOUT THE GT-R.

It's a coupe.

It's not a luxury vehicle.

It has no real back seat.

It has a punishing ride.

It is not, nor will it ever be a car that people in their right mind compare to a 4 door, luxury equipped CTS-V. The article specifically said "4-Door sedan", which the GT-R is not. This forum was nearly ruined by all the stupid GT-R posts- don't take us there again. If you want to talk about the GT-R, then GTFO and go find a GT-R forum.

urbanski
05-09-08, 03:21 PM
Not true, and I thought we were beyond comparing the V and the GT-R.

aw hell no
gtr all day baby YEAH

figgie
05-09-08, 03:21 PM
SHUT UP ABOUT THE GT-R.

It's a coupe.

It's not a luxury vehicle.

It has no real back seat.

It has a punishing ride.

It is not, nor will it ever be a car that people in their right mind compare to a 4 door, luxury equipped CTS-V. This forum was nearly ruined by all the stupid GT-R posts- don't take us there again. If you want to talk about the GT-R, then GTFO and go find a GT-R forum.


listen

I could care less bout the "GT-r " as I consider that car does not have enough power. But I am a stickler for semantics.

urbanski
05-09-08, 03:23 PM
i'm gonna leave my gtr work and drive my gtrv home to my gtr house and drink some gtr beer, cya laters gtrforum

figgie
05-09-08, 03:23 PM
Can we say Supra here?

The Tony Show
05-09-08, 03:24 PM
I am a stickler for semantics.

Then you should understand the difference between an AWD coupe bred to be a race car and a RWD luxury sedan with ridiculous amounts of thrust.

The comparison couldn't be more inappropriate or ludicrous, and I'm sick to death of every thread on every car forum on the entire Internet getting spammed up with GT-R comparisons.

gothicaleigh
05-09-08, 03:27 PM
Can we say Supra here?

onoes :gothicaleigh:


...and now back to the new V being the fastest production sedan in the world:

Seattle CTS-V
05-09-08, 03:33 PM
that is fine

but my issue.

since 2009 is not in full swing production. Just like the GT-r. It can not be called a production vehicle until there are NUMEROUS of them on the road, AND, a random sampling is taken from those produced cars and RAN.

Otherwise, The GT-r absolutely smacks this car plus almost every other car into the ground with a 7:38. That is a whopping 20 second, forget whooping, MASSACARE. And I am not using the bystandard timed one that came in at below 7:30!


Anyone in the market for an upcoming CTS-V could make the small stretch to purchase a GT-R. Those that wish to do that would be on a Nissan website. It's fine to make comparisons of cars but to go on about how the new CTS-V is essentially a waste of time b/c the GT-R will "massacare", err I mean, massacre it is pointless. Apples to oranges.

figgie
05-09-08, 03:33 PM
Then you should understand the difference between an AWD coupe bred to be a race car and a RWD luxury sedan with ridiculous amounts of thrust.

The comparison couldn't be more inappropriate or ludicrous, and I'm sick to death of every thread on every car forum on the entire Internet getting spammed up with GT-R comparisons.

Ridiculous amount of "thrust"?

You mean acceleration.

Never ridden an older AMG E55 or even the newer AMG SL55?

now that I say that, Odd that I don't see any of the AMG series from Mercedes on that list. Curious.

The Tony Show
05-09-08, 03:44 PM
Ridiculous amount of "thrust"?

You mean acceleration.

Never ridden an older AMG E55 or even the newer AMG SL55?

now that I say that, Odd that I don't see any of the AMG series from Mercedes on that list. Curious.

No, I meant thrust. You've got to be kidding me, dude.

8:05 --- 152.91 km/h -- Mercedes CLK 63 AMG Black Series
8:06 --- 152.59 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG
8:14 --- 150.12 km/h -- Mercedes SL 65 AMG,


Epic fail. Go back to trolling somewhere else, and enjoy being on my ignore list. :thumbsup:

HushH
05-09-08, 03:49 PM
weight are about the same

Weight are about 400 pounds difference.


priced about the same

priced about 25k different with GT-R dealer mark-ups.

figgie
05-09-08, 03:56 PM
Weight are about 400 pounds difference.



priced about 25k different with GT-R dealer mark-ups.


dealer markup could be 100K+, and the people buying them should also buy a big 55 gallon drum of vasoline or perhaps some Mobil 1 will do them better.

MSRP is what it is.


Yippie, first time ever on someone ignore list!

gothicaleigh
05-09-08, 03:57 PM
8:06 - '02 Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG
8:22 - BMW E46 M3
8:26 - '01 Mercedes Benz SLK 32 AMG
8:50 - '00 Mercedes Benz E55 AMG (with a note that it was on a shortened Nordschleife)

Can not find a 'Ring time, but from what I have read, the newer E63 is slower than the E55.

figgie
05-09-08, 03:58 PM
No, I meant thrust. You've got to be kidding me, dude.

8:05 --- 152.91 km/h -- Mercedes CLK 63 AMG Black Series
8:06 --- 152.59 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG
8:14 --- 150.12 km/h -- Mercedes SL 65 AMG,


Epic fail. Go back to trolling somewhere else, and enjoy being on my ignore list. :thumbsup:
how cute,

I hate Wiki but usually it is the most up to date. No where to be found as those numbers in the wiki tell you were they were pulled from (Magazine most, lots of mfg claim). Hell they even already updated the CTS-V information with the appropiate citiation (mfg claim) ;)

So on that note (since you got me on ignore).

Makes your numbers total crap.

figgie
05-09-08, 04:04 PM
8:06 - '02 Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG
8:22 - BMW E46 M3
8:26 - '01 Mercedes Benz SLK 32 AMG
8:50 - '00 Mercedes Benz E55 AMG (with a note that it was on a shortened Nordschleife)

Can not find a 'Ring time, but from what I have read, the newer E63 is slower than the E55.


Just look up the wiki. I am trying to figure out where you guys are geting your numbers. Wiki only shows confirmed. So that is why I am curious what publication you are pulling those numbers from.

70eldo
05-09-08, 04:15 PM
Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooly sh*t!

And who told me the V is not for the track???

woot woot!

HushH
05-09-08, 04:17 PM
dealer markup could be 100K+, and the people buying them should also buy a big 55 gallon drum of vasoline or perhaps some Mobil 1 will do them better.

MSRP is what it is.


Yippie, first time ever on someone ignore list!

In that case there would be a shortage of vasoline as I believe all of the first year's production of GT-Rs are spoken for and most at a significant dealer mark-up.

Until the sales prices come back more in-line with MSRP, I doubt many people will be cross-shopping the two.

urbanski
05-09-08, 04:19 PM
i got my wiki in a knot over the gtr :drool:

AMGoff
05-09-08, 04:45 PM
With a time of 7:59:32, the new CTS-V might be the fastest ever documented sedan to lap the famous track, according to this article (http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2008/112_0805_2009_cadillac_cts_v_nurburgring_lap_times/index.html) from Motor Trend.

After doing a little bit of research, it seems that it has blitzed the times attained by its targeted Bavarian rivals... According to the German car magazine Sport Auto, the fastest an E60 M5 has lapped the 'ring was in 8:13, an E63 M6 posted an 8:09, and E92 M3 did it in 8:05.

It's a very good day for Cadillac... big kudos to GM :thumbsup:

The Tony Show
05-09-08, 04:47 PM
lol @ Urb.

I heard the GT-R cooks you breakfast and recently sent a dyno machine back in time when it hit 88mph on the rollers.
:rofl:

RightTurn
05-09-08, 04:47 PM
Troublemaker. :alchi:

RightTurn
05-09-08, 04:48 PM
i got my wiki in a knot over the gtr :drool:

ur wiki's in a knot?? For real? GTFO, ur kiddin.

BacDoc
05-09-08, 04:50 PM
I should've looked outside the 04-07 thread.

StealthCTSVJJL
05-09-08, 04:50 PM
The V2's time is less than 4 seconds slower than the Z06, considering it is a big spacious 4 door sedan with an awesome luxury interior, thats good enough for me, if I wanted a a sports car like the GT-R I would wait for the Corvette ZR-1, which may not be quicker than the GT-R at that German race track but will certainly spank one on good ole Interstate 95. Plus let's see if that GT-R's times are real, even Car and Driver on their test of the GT-R last month stated that it was an "engineering test mule" not even a pre production car.

xfifty
05-09-08, 04:53 PM
I love it

http://images.worldcarfans.com/2008/5/9/9080509.018/9080509.018.1L.jpg

MSOsr
05-09-08, 04:54 PM
This one time in band camp.....errrr......GTR camp, a GTR went so fast that the world quit building 4 door cars, as only a GTR-hating fool would buy one.

Why buy a GTR when you could buy dozens of motorcycles that are faster and cheaper? I guess GTR buyers are fools too........

Mike (now embarrassed to say I've owned Nissans)

AMGoff
05-09-08, 04:54 PM
My bad... I've never even gone into the '09+ CTS-V forum... So I didn't see that was already up there! I suppose though, it's such awesome news that everybody should know about it... lol!

The Tony Show
05-09-08, 04:57 PM
I'm done talking about the GT-R. How 'bout that new V, eh? :drool:

http://image.motortrend.com/f/features/auto_news/2008/9843360/112_0805_01z+2009_cadillac_CTS-V+nurburgring.jpg

dqw1
05-09-08, 05:04 PM
So far the 09v is exceeding most expectations and it's not even released yet. Looks, power and technology. Only thing missing is the price. Can we vote Fig off our island?

RightTurn
05-09-08, 05:05 PM
Yes.

urbanski
05-09-08, 05:06 PM
ur wiki's in a knot?? For real? GTFO, ur kiddin.

i just swam in my grt now i have my comfy gtrs on and am cookign gtr

urbanski
05-09-08, 05:07 PM
Yes.

no..

urbanski
05-09-08, 05:08 PM
what was teh qyuestion?

RightTurn
05-09-08, 05:16 PM
:shiner:

parexa
05-09-08, 05:16 PM
Everyone let's hate the GTR fan :bouncy:


http://jj.am/gallery/d/48577-1/Fail_party.jpg

RightTurn
05-09-08, 05:17 PM
We already do.
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z117/sarahw422/goodbad1.jpg

:D

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-09-08, 05:21 PM
I'm reopening this due to the awesomeness of the news.

urbanski
05-09-08, 05:53 PM
then i'll move and merge it in 09 :)
where it belongs

HITMONEY
05-09-08, 06:33 PM
Other than post 1 and 5.. this entire thread is useless.

You guys are teh fail!

urbanski
05-09-08, 06:40 PM
Other than post 1 and 5.. this entire thread is useless.

You guys are teh fail!

caleigh > *

dannystang
05-09-08, 08:30 PM
No wheelhop, nice interior, nearly as fast as the new z06 around the lap?

Shit, I was looking for a reason not to have to buy one...

Maybe the paint fades first year...

Well atleast with crude at 126 they will be cheap?

thebigjimsho
05-09-08, 09:26 PM
Yep, saw firsthand NO wheelhop and a flawless, smoking rubber 1-2 shift that made me tear up. And they told us at the track, at about noon, of this, telling us teh intarweb was gonna get blowed up with the news. My brother, who frequents the Subie forums, calls me this afternoon telling me teh intarweb has blowed up.




And since figgie has no chance at procreation, the GT-r will be fine...

Rich H
05-09-08, 10:13 PM
For all of you non-believers, the time is already documented on Wikipedia - although stated as a "manufacturer's claim":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times

RightTurn
05-09-08, 10:15 PM
Well then it must be true. :alchi:

StealthV
05-09-08, 10:20 PM
Maybe the paint fades first year...

We could only hope - Semi-gloss black would look good on V2.


Well atleast with crude at 126 they will be cheap?

What good is disposable income unless one spends it. :D

StealthV
05-09-08, 10:26 PM
And who told me the V is not for the track???


Cadillac, "But this isn't a race car." (http://cadillac.gmblogs.com/2008/04/field_work.html)

Just like V1, not for the track means keep it off the drag strip boys and girls. It is meant to turn left and right. :thumbsup:

JEM
05-09-08, 11:08 PM
Does that mean that when GM decides to build my batch of super-CTS-V wagons they'll throw in three days of 'Ring time with Mr Heinricy and company?

Excuse me, this is a really good Malbec I'm working on...oh well, back to the bottle...

razl
05-09-08, 11:41 PM
(must.... resist.... futile....)

You Black Raven guys know why they ran it in Radiant Silver, right? ... right?

:duck:

StealthV
05-09-08, 11:52 PM
(must.... resist.... futile....)
You Black Raven guys know why they ran it in Radiant Silver, right? ... right?



Because they're waiting to set the official production record with the faster black one? :hmm:

:yup: :rimshot:

StealthV
05-09-08, 11:56 PM
Does that mean that when GM decides to build my batch of super-CTS-V wagons they'll throw in three days of 'Ring time with Mr Heinricy and company?

Excuse me, this is a really good Malbec I'm working on...oh well, back to the bottle...

If you purchase a batch, I'm sure things could be worked out. :alchi:

thebigjimsho
05-09-08, 11:57 PM
(must.... resist.... futile....)

You Black Raven guys know why they ran it in Radiant Silver, right? ... right?

:duck:Because they went so fast, the black paint peeled off...

StealthV
05-10-08, 12:23 AM
Son, it's not silver.

http://blogs.jobdig.com/wwds/files/2007/11/sr71.jpg

urbanski
05-10-08, 06:54 AM
haha stealing bandwidth

Brett
05-10-08, 08:07 AM
When did ring time become so important? It's comical to picture most any owner of a CTS-V, GTR, etc. spinning out of control and destroying his car and possibly himself trying to match these numbers. Or is this the new bench racing? When you pull up to someone at a stoplight you ask them their "ring time".


These GTR guys are pathetic, its a cool car, we get it.....get over it

urbanski
05-10-08, 10:22 AM
These GTR guys are pathetic, its a cool car, we get it.....get over it

gtr > paid off mortgage

Blackout
05-10-08, 10:29 AM
since 2009 is not in full swing production. Just like the GT-r. It can not be called a production vehicle until there are NUMEROUS of them on the road, AND, a random sampling is taken from those produced cars and RAN.Ummm......the GT-R is a production car. Just because it's not available here doesn't mean that it's not already in production. The car has been for sale in Japan for the past couple of months now. But big time kudos to the CTS-V! That is one hell of a lap time for a sedan. I didn't read the article yet but was this a test mule or an actual production, ready to go model?

thebigjimsho
05-10-08, 10:47 AM
Ummm......the GT-R is a production car. Just because it's not available here doesn't mean that it's not already in production. The car has been for sale in Japan for the past couple of months now. But big time kudos to the CTS-V! That is one hell of a lap time for a sedan. I didn't read the article yet but was this a test mule or an actual production, ready to go model?Pre-production, no mods. They had 2 mules at Summit Point with all kinds of go fast candy. Then they had an unmolested pre-pro as well. I had fun with him on track...

Blackout
05-10-08, 10:50 AM
The V2's time is less than 4 seconds slower than the Z06, considering it is a big spacious 4 door sedan with an awesome luxury interior, thats good enough for me, if I wanted a a sports car like the GT-R I would wait for the Corvette ZR-1, which may not be quicker than the GT-R at that German race track but will certainly spank one on good ole Interstate 95. Plus let's see if that GT-R's times are real, even Car and Driver on their test of the GT-R last month stated that it was an "engineering test mule" not even a pre production car.


If you thought the GT-R’s previous recorded lap time of 7m 38s at the Nurburgring was shockingly fast get ready to be stunned again as Nissan has confirmed today that its latest supercar has achieved a blistering lap time of just 7m 29 seconds - making it one of the fastest ever production road cars to attack the ‘Ring. The lap times were recorded on April 16 and 17 and were for a stock-standard base specification GT-R fitted with the same Japanese market tires as the cars in showrooms.

Driven by GT-R chief test driver Tochio Suzuki, this latest lap time beats the previous fastest time for the GT-R by nine seconds (and the Porsche 911 GT2 by three whole seconds). Incidentally, the previous time was also set by Suzuki and was already one of the fastest laps achieved by a production car. Poor conditions on the previous attempt - slightly damp on two corners – was cited as reasons for the slower time.

“At last year’s testing, we were frustrated by the conditions at the Nürburgring, always believing that the GT-R could go under seven minutes 30 seconds,” said Kazutoshi Mizuno, Nissan’s chief vehicle engineer for the GT-R. “Below seven minutes 30 seconds, the GT-R proves it is among the fastest mass-production cars in the world. We set out to build a multi-performance supercar accessible to anyone, anytime and anywhere – I believe the GT-R has delivered that promise.”

If the standard GT-R is this quick we can only imagine how fast the lighter and more powerful Spec-V model due next year will be. Prototypes spotted testing last month are said to be achieving lap times of 7m 25s and given the performance of the stock model we suspect the new car could be even faster.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/supercars/official-nissan-gt-r-laps-nurburgring-in-7m-29s/#more-5671

I'm not here to start another GT-R battle or anything but when you talk out your ass like this your only making yourself look like a fool. So the actual production car is faster then the test mules

Blackout
05-10-08, 10:52 AM
Pre-production, no mods. They had 2 mules at Summit Point with all kinds of go fast candy. Then they had an unmolested pre-pro as well. I had fun with him on track...

Who did you have to sleep with to get that!?:quagmire: But quick question for ya. Is it true that the blower on the LSA can't be changed? I've heard this from a couple of different places but I never have gotten 100% confirmation on that

thebigjimsho
05-10-08, 11:01 AM
Who did you have to sleep with to get that!?:quagmire: But quick question for ya. Is it true that the blower on the LSA can't be changed? I've heard this from a couple of different places but I never have gotten 100% confirmation on thatI don't know the specs, but I think it would be very difficult to replace the s/c. Actually, anyone in the Advanced class at the Lindsay Cadillac V-day at Summit Point had the opportunity to wrangle with the '09s. They had all 3 in our class...

Lindsay Cadillac
05-10-08, 11:31 AM
I don't think they ever took the production model out on the track... I think it was just for everyone to ooooh and ahhh over, which there was a lot of... :D They did have both of the testing cars on the track in every advanced session. I didn't get to see the last advanced session with the track in the best condition of the day but I heard from Bill that they were really going at it... :D

NormV
05-10-08, 11:35 AM
Does Japan use higher octane like Germans do compared to USA Germany uses 96-97 octane? Boosted cars love octane!


I wonder what the track elevation on the ring? Sounds like HP and boosted cars have the upper hand. The 09 v @ summit was go where fast when around me. :)

But on a Watkins Glen or VIR might be a different story compared to Shenandoha tight course. .

urbanski
05-10-08, 12:10 PM
I don't think they ever took the production model out on the track... I think it was just for everyone to ooooh and ahhh over, which there was a lot of... :D They did have both of the testing cars on the track in every advanced session. I didn't get to see the last advanced session with the track in the best condition of the day but I heard from Bill that they were really going at it... :D

unicorn!

gophaster
05-10-08, 01:27 PM
TOO funny...I almost fell out of my chair laughing :thumbsup::thumbsup:


lol @ Urb.

I heard the GT-R cooks you breakfast and recently sent a dyno machine back in time when it hit 88mph on the rollers.
:rofl:

JEM
05-10-08, 11:42 PM
When did ring time become so important? It's comical to picture most any owner of a CTS-V, GTR, etc. spinning out of control and destroying his car and possibly himself trying to match these numbers. Or is this the new bench racing? When you pull up to someone at a stoplight you ask them their "ring time".

It's evidence that the manufacturer cared enough to wring the car out on the best real-world test track on Earth. The Nordschleife is a remarkable place.

I've driven it, a few laps in one afternoon, but it's not a track you can learn well enough to go anything resembling fast in one day, and if you were ever fortunate enough to spend sufficient time there to get within, oh, thirty seconds of a real hotshoe's time in a similar car you're doing well. Some folks would argue that John Heinricy should have to pay GM to get to do what he does ;)

As for the GT-R...yeah, whatever, it's not a car that really appeals to me no matter what the lap time. And I like the comment about "the same Japanese market tires found on cars in showrooms". What tires are those?

JEM
05-10-08, 11:49 PM
Does Japan use higher octane like Germans do compared to USA Germany uses 96-97 octane? Boosted cars love octane!

I wonder what the track elevation on the ring? Sounds like HP and boosted cars have the upper hand. The 09 v @ summit was go where fast when around me. :)

But on a Watkins Glen or VIR might be a different story compared to Shenandoha tight course. .

98RON gas is available at German gas station pumps. That compares to a US rating of about 94AKI (RON+MON/2) I think.

We here in California get crap - 91AKI (a short 95RON) is as good as it gets.

The Nordschleife is in the Eifel mountains but it's only about 1000ft up.

http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/
http://forum.ringersforum.com/

HiTechRV
05-11-08, 12:25 AM
Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooly sh*t!

And who told me the V is not for the track???

woot woot!


Don't you remember the doom and gloom? Power does not matter. Power to weight ratio does not matter. The new V is a pig and will never compete with the original on the track. The electronic goodies are all for naught. Weight - it is only weight that matters!

Jpjr
05-11-08, 05:03 AM
Don't you remember the doom and gloom? Power does not matter. Power to weight ratio does not matter. The new V is a pig and will never compete with the original on the track. The electronic goodies are all for naught. Weight - it is only weight that matters!

I don't think anyone can argue with the results, but the weight perception continues to dog american performance sedans. They are viewed as pigs, and even a pig can be extremely fast. It's really just a justification that BMW-esque buyers can use not to look at American cars, which I just wish they would address one day without removing the radio and air conditioning as a solution lol.

Jpjr
05-11-08, 05:05 AM
I don't know the specs, but I think it would be very difficult to replace the s/c. Actually, anyone in the Advanced class at the Lindsay Cadillac V-day at Summit Point had the opportunity to wrangle with the '09s. They had all 3 in our class...

I'm not sure of the context here, but I guarantee 1) there will continue to be a huge aftermarket for LS performance, and 2) that means someone will make an aftermarket blower or figure out how to maximize the performance of the existing one through pulleys or some other boost/efficiency enhancing mod. It's only a matter of time.

NormV
05-11-08, 08:16 AM
Don't you remember the doom and gloom? Power does not matter. Power to weight ratio does not matter. The new V is a pig and will never compete with the original on the track. The electronic goodies are all for naught. Weight - it is only weight that matters!

The 09 has allot of potential for the non-race track driver but it is no Corvette C4 to C5 revolution compared to the first generation V1. Just because you have an 09 does not mean you'll have a faster car than a competent driver in the V1.

With factory hot shoes in 09 test mules at Summit Point there were a few of us in that got to run with them. Now these are not production car but have drivers that have to show competency to show skills within 2% of John Heinricy, GM's in house race car driver(i.e. really fast!). I consider myself competent but no race car driver and my car was not sliding around at the limit when I let them pass.

The test cars have non-production brake systems and who knows what kind of power as the hoods never went up in the pits. A tight course like Shenandoah didn't let them get to far fast compared to my car with headers and an extra person. A bigger course with more straight aways like a VIR or Watkins Glenn might prove differently(I am guessing my car would trap in the 1/4 mile - 112-114 MPH based on following C6 on a road course).

They did have good corner exit speeds but I really expected the the 150 or so horsepower to more damage down the front straight and the bigger, wider torque curve to put the distance on my student and me but they did not. Figure with my student/me and them with extra test gear and we are within a few hundred pounds. So weight does matter in this case in the twisties. When the auto mags get a hold of production V and get some times on local road courses we'll better be able to see the differences vs. the V1.

Norm

Blackout
05-11-08, 10:18 AM
As for the GT-R...yeah, whatever, it's not a car that really appeals to me no matter what the lap time. And I like the comment about "the same Japanese market tires found on cars in showrooms". What tires are those?The JDM GT-R has Bridgestone Potenza RE070R RFT's on it

CIWS
05-11-08, 10:24 AM
The JDM GT-R has Bridgestone Potenza RE070R RFT's on it


YAK RFTs. Glad to see GM/Cadillac has finally woke up and stopped putting them on the newer cars.

70eldo
05-11-08, 10:57 AM
I don't think anyone can argue with the results, but the weight perception continues to dog american performance sedans. They are viewed as pigs, and even a pig can be extremely fast. It's really just a justification that BMW-esque buyers can use not to look at American cars, which I just wish they would address one day without removing the radio and air conditioning as a solution lol.

If a pig flies, you're not gonna criticize how it's flying, right?

HiTechRV
05-11-08, 11:10 AM
If a pig flies, you're not gonna criticize how it's flying, right?

And if a pig outflies a hawk, you better hope it doesn't dive bomb you...

GNSCOTT
05-11-08, 12:09 PM
The V2's time is less than 4 seconds slower than the Z06, considering it is a big spacious 4 door sedan with an awesome luxury interior, thats good enough for me, if I wanted a a sports car like the GT-R I would wait for the Corvette ZR-1, which may not be quicker than the GT-R at that German race track but will certainly spank one on good ole Interstate 95. Plus let's see if that GT-R's times are real, even Car and Driver on their test of the GT-R last month stated that it was an "engineering test mule" not even a pre production car.

I think you need to do a little more research. The C6 Zo6 ran 17 seconds faster. Maybe you saw a C5 Z06's numbers??


7:42.9Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_C6#Z06)505 hp / 1450 kgJan Magnussen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Magnussen)2005Motor Trend (http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/112_0509_z06track/)[10] (http://janmagnussen.com/news.asp?NewsID=1124386515)Muggy conditions

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-11-08, 02:46 PM
So does this mean the 2009 V is the fastest sedan of all time? That's the impression I'm getting....

JEM
05-11-08, 06:16 PM
I don't think anyone can argue with the results, but the weight perception continues to dog american performance sedans. They are viewed as pigs, and even a pig can be extremely fast. It's really just a justification that BMW-esque buyers can use not to look at American cars, which I just wish they would address one day without removing the radio and air conditioning as a solution lol.

No, they're not viewed as pigs. They're viewed as crudely built and giving away too much refinement to go fast.

Further, Detroit has built very few 'real' performance sedans.

There was the '75 9C1 Nova cop car, which is pretty much forgotten now. No power, of course, but not much else did then either. And it had maybe the best leaf-spring chassis Detroit ever did (okay, so that's a little like saying it was the quickest-firing muzzle-loading smoothbore ever done, but...) Every so often I think a '75 Nova sedan with an LS2 or LS3 and a T56 would be a Really Nice Driver. This is California, so for certain reasons it'd have to be a '75 (I just passed up a nice one on eBay that went for under $300 that'd have been a good start for my //M$5; I wasn't about to face down the wife about bringing another car home given that I've got four project cars and a total of nine cars between the two of us.)

Then fast-forward to the late '90s and one gets to a couple Fords, the LTD LX (which wasn't all that 'sporty' but it was as close as Ford ever got to putting Mustang GT bits in a four-door Fox) and the first-gen Taurus SHO which - crudely built and unrefined as it was - was as good as one was going to get with FWD on a Detroit budget. Was it as good a car as, say, a 2.3-liter Saab 9000 Turbo? No. But it was cheaper.

There were a couple wannabes along the way, mainly turbo Dodges that were built even worse than the Taurus.

From the end of the Gen 2 SHO (IMO the Gen 3 doesn't quite carry the 'sport sedan' burden very well) until...what? The '04 CTS-V? The SRT Mopars? I don't care how much motor they've got, you can't reasonably call the current Impala SS a sport sedan.

Their big muscle-sedans may be priced attractively, but the '09 CTS-V is the first one that actually offers the promise of having detail design and material quality more or less competitive with the German offerings (I'll forgive the lack of a power tilt/telescope steering column if they come up with a wagon...)

And Detroit's never done anything to compete at the 3-series/A4 size level, even the SHO was fully as big as the M5 of the day. The only 'polished' small sports item that's come out of Detroit has been the SVT Focus, which was a Mexican-built version of the Euro Focus ST170 and a very nice piece of hardware. The Neon SRT-4 is incredibly fast and incredibly rude, some of the worst seats I've ever experienced in my life.

Rich H
05-11-08, 07:08 PM
Does weight matter in a race? Think about SCCA “rewards”. Does 1 lap make a race other than at the “Ring”? I think these answers are obvious but we likely won’t know the magnitude until the CTS VR races against the competition in the Speed GT World Challenge as a second generation V2 – hopefully next year. As I remember, the big advantage of the first generation VR was its balance and light weight. It didn’t have the fastest standing start (no AWD); it didn’t have the highest hp and fastest speed in the straight-aways; and it didn’t have much of a racing reputation at the beginning. But after 3 seasons it had more than its share of wins.

So even though the results at the Ring are encouraging, the real test is yet to come.

Dr Chill
05-11-08, 08:52 PM
Does weight matter in a race? Think about SCCA “rewards”. Does 1 lap make a race other than at the “Ring”? I think these answers are obvious but we likely won’t know the magnitude until the CTS VR races against the competition in the Speed GT World Challenge as a second generation V2 – hopefully next year. As I remember, the big advantage of the first generation VR was its balance and light weight. It didn’t have the fastest standing start (no AWD); it didn’t have the highest hp and fastest speed in the straight-aways; and it didn’t have much of a racing reputation at the beginning. But after 3 seasons it had more than its share of wins.

So even though the results at the Ring are encouraging, the real test is yet to come.

The racecar version really is not comparable to the street version. The great ring time speaks highly about the car's combination of handling and power. As many of you know from time spent on the track, high hp cars that either have inadequate brakes, tires, driver ability, or poor handling are track bait for a well set-up Miata or Lotus Elise with a good driver. 7:59 speaks for itself. You can safely say that none of us on this board will approach 7:59, but it just points out that despite the cars heft, it must handle and brake pretty well. I think we can take the power for granted after seeing what the LS9 dynoed at. I'm sure the V2 will smoke my E55 that has about 12 track days on it with race pads, Hoosier slicks on wider front rims, full brake ducting and hp upgrades. My Z06 track car is much more fun. I don't plan on taking this V on the track more than once to see how it fares, because I don't want to beat on it too much since it is going to be my wife's car. September can't come soon enough.

onebadcad
05-11-08, 08:58 PM
The times clocked at 'The Ring' are helpful, and great for Internet fights and its bullies & trolls, but you need to consider the following, most have already been pointed out:

1) tires, not sure what the V2 ran on, not even sure what OE tires are, as may care one day when I buy one, but I believe Porsche always runs the Pilot Sport Cups, which are great for the track (once warm), but lousy for a DD, if you have the particulars for each run post them to remove the whatifs
2) drivers, those dudes posting the times are great, you and I are amateurs (except for the Summit Point gang:lildevil:!!!), you will not optimize the performance of any Supercar (yeah, the V2 {and V1} are supercars 'cause I said so), you will be somewhere well north of those numbers on a track day, as too much performance may prove to be a detrement to those with minimal skills, we have all seen the Enzo crash photos in Socal
3) specs, such as octane, tires, brakes, pads, weight, pre-production, mule, total runs, track temps/conditions, etc... I am certain the C6Z time posted was on OE runcraps, a run with PS2s or Sport Cups would have yielded a lower time of 6,8 or 10secs,,, all things, except the sale price of the GTR in the first year can be manipulated to a degree

Great thread though, Caddy dominates, not bad for a manufacturer who five years ago had no claims to the World of Racing. I enjoy the haters, as they are the reason my staunch Cadillac loyalty grows, and as far as modifying the V2 powerplant, it will happen, do not think a warranty will keep all owners in check. Caddy rocks, always the first, not always the best (hard to be such when you are a groundbreaker), but we come back with a vengeance.

And lastly, that GTR better be damn good, as it is mofugly, is not a sedan, cannot carry golf clubs or four strippers to a Bachelor Party, and takes a long time to cross the Pacific should you custom-order it. It will not sell for under $90K for the first 12 months-For $90K, here is the ticket:

1) '08 C6Z, deals can be had at $10K under MSRP, or find some poor soul in the mortgage/real estate biz (like me) and get an '07 for about $55-60K
2) Sell the LS7, Go with C5R block
3) TT the mutha, good for 16psi and great street manners
4) Clutch/flywheel, full exhaust, upgrade rear, half-shafts, etc...
5) Go out to All You Can Eat Sushi Bar, and pay homeage to only Japanese Import you give your dollars to.

Should anyone opt for the outrageously stickered + unjustified mark-up of the GTR, bring it by, I would like a few minutes with it to see if it is all that, thanks in advance.

Urb, check your PMs, as I sent you the application for a moderator for the GTR Forum,,,

StealthViggen
05-11-08, 09:14 PM
I really have to laugh at this endless bullshit of posts on every board from here to the Kia forums, comparing the CTS-V2 to the GTR. Especially when 99.9% of the posts are made by 20 something Fanboys with neither the means to own one, nor the skill to drive one anywhere near the "unofficial" times set by pro racers. I would hazzard a guess that either car in the hands Johnny fanboy at the ring would either :
A: Possibly break 10 mins around the track
B: Possibly break in half after flying off the track into a tree

Let me preface the following with the fact the I had a modded 1990 300ZX nissan TT ( 400whp ), and I think the GTR is weapon of a vehicle for what is was designed to do( eat far more expensive cars at the race track)

GTR Vs V2 Facts:
1. These cars do not compete in any way shape or form
2. The GTR will be faster 0-60 and around a track without question
3. The V will absolutely crush a GTR from a 10mph roll all the way to 130+ - I guarantee it!
4. The V2 is a far more luxourious car
5. The v will be cheaper
6. The V will be more readily modded - Forged 454 LSX + LS9 blower = 900whp all day long
7. No woman of any quality screws a nissan driver, ask one.

Lastly I have no idea when an inconsistenly recorded, unofficial set of lap times, set on different times, days, years, by different drivers became the end all and be all of bench racing. I really wish people would just shut the fawk up, and give gredit to the companies and engineers who continue to have the balls to make cars like these when all business logic tells them otherwise. I will enjoy this "end of days" of the performance cars, because I really think 10 years from now we will remember these times for the awesome cars we used to have available, and not how fast around a track they were

onebadcad
05-11-08, 09:24 PM
SV,
Good post.


7. No woman of any quality screws a nissan driver, ask one.


Don't know about you guys, but this one kinda kills the GTR deal for me!

verbs
05-11-08, 09:41 PM
Can we say Supra here?
No, you can't. The Supra came from the factory with a motor able to handle 800+hp without breaking a sweat....forged everything. The CTS-V doesn't.

thebigjimsho
05-11-08, 10:11 PM
No, you can't. The Supra came from the factory with a motor able to handle 800+hp without breaking a sweat....forged everything. The CTS-V doesn't.So what?

GNSCOTT
05-11-08, 10:52 PM
There is a reason the Ring is very important number wise. Out of all of the tracks in the world, the ring has proven to be the best test bed for a performancce vehicle. The reason is because it has the best mix of all driving conditions. Up hill turns, downhill turns, level turns, a good mix of long straightaways and because of its length it gives cars time to shine.

If the GTR ran the times it did with the same kind of start that other manufacturers use it will prove that AWD is extremely important. The car weighs a lot more than a Z06 and has less HP and torque and it destroyed the Z06 times. The only thing that can account for that is the AWD. I did not think AWD could mean that much, but it is either that or the GTR numbers are bogus. Find it funny that they picked up almost 10 seconds from the last time they tested with the same car. Funny that after 60mph that the Z06 is faster than the GTR but the Z still got its azz handed to it at the ring by the GTR.


1) tires, not sure what the V2 ran on, not even sure what OE tires are, as may care one day when I buy one, but I believe Porsche always runs the Pilot Sport Cups, which are great for the track (once warm), but lousy for a DD, if you have the particulars for each run post them to remove the whatifs


Says it was run in showroom trim including tires.


2) drivers, those dudes posting the times are great, you and I are amateurs (except for the Summit Point gang:lildevil:!!!), you will not optimize the performance of any Supercar (yeah, the V2 {and V1} are supercars 'cause I said so), you will be somewhere well north of those numbers on a track day, as too much performance may prove to be a detrement to those with minimal skills, we have all seen the Enzo crash photos in Socal

Umm, I think that is obvious. That is why magazines use professional drivers times and not yours. Their numbers are a lot more consistent.




GM said on the C6 Z06 if they use the PS2's it would have bettered the Z06's times by 2 seconds. I beleive the ZR1's are getting PS2's.



1. These cars do not compete in any way shape or form


I think you are seriously wrong if you think 2 fast performance vehicles in the same price range do not compete. I am sure if I was thinking of 1 of the 2, i would seriously consider both.


2. The GTR will be faster 0-60 and around a track without question


Not hard to determine when you see the V ran the ring in 7.59 and the GTR did a 7.29


3. The V will absolutely crush a GTR from a 10mph roll all the way to 130+ - I guarantee it!


First you cannot guarantee this, and who races anything from a 10mph roll?


4. The V2 is a far more luxourious car

I would hope so since its the only one in the comparison that is a luxury sedan.


5. The v will be cheaper First you cannot hold it against a car if it is so in demand it brings a premium under sticker. Then the argument can be made later that the GTR is cheaper because I am sure it will have a better resale value than a Gm product ( I almost exclusively buy GM so don't go there, I know)


6. The V will be more readily modded - Forged 454 LSX + LS9 blower = 900whp all day long

And you think the GM driveline in the 4300lb V will be able to handle additional torque?


7. No woman of any quality screws a nissan driver, ask one.


Women who screw a car with a nice car do it for a car that is in style. The GTR will be more recognizable to stupid trailer whores. Personally i think the car is ugly, but chicks just think the V is a CTS entry level caddy.


So does this mean the 2009 V is the fastest sedan of all time? That's the impression I'm getting.... 05-11-08 12:09 PM

yes

Rich H
05-11-08, 11:30 PM
There is a reason the Ring is very important number wise. Out of all of the tracks in the world, the ring has proven to be the best test bed for a performancce vehicle. The reason is because it has the best mix of all driving conditions. Up hill turns, downhill turns, level turns, a good mix of long straightaways and because of its length it gives cars time to shine.

The Ring IS the best track to test any car's overall limiting capabilities - and the V should do well on it - after all the car was designed, tuned, and tested on this track. However, a single lap around this track won't give you insights into other important variables that are needed to be successful in long term performance required for racing, such as:


component durability and failure rates that would be more evident in a longer race
all important tire wear rate which is directly proportional to vehicle mass and usually spells the demise of most cars on the track
the "driver" factor which obviously is all important for a single car entry for a single timed lap
and track conditions that should be averaged out on different days with different weather conditionThere are just too many variables that come into play to stake a car's reputation on a single timed lap. Hence, we should look forward to seeing how a "slightly" modified version of the V2 does in the World Challenge on many tracks with many drivers in many laps at many driving conditions.

onebadcad
05-11-08, 11:36 PM
Best list I could find for times at 'The Ring':

http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10073


GTR has a listing of 7:55, the variables need to be considered, as times do not give all the specifics.

Whether you like the arena or not, you have to admit that the V2 has earned it stripes!!!, as has the GTR.

BigFred
05-11-08, 11:42 PM
-The Ring makes a good overall benchmark. The news got me pumped and put the V@ back at the top of the list.

-The GTR interior looks like a race car. I've never seen an interior that looked so much like it missed the design studio completely. It's funny (and great!) that on gen 2 the interior becomes a plus instead of a minus. Motor Trend's article on the GTR does a great job of explaining why its numbers are so great, and why it falls behind the competition at 100+ mph.

-I'm not as excited with my 06 V as I once was, and I'm tired of the wife complaining about the stick. Was looking to find someone to take over the lease and considering an 05 e55, or a new 335i and getting the $2000 warrantied Dinan mod which adds about 60hp to the already underated engine. Even new M3, C63, S5 if the lease was low enough (my only option). I think I may just wait it out for the new V. I know that if I got one of these other cars, when the new V came out I would just be wanting one. This news sure helps to keep me from jumping ship before GM can sell me another car.

Dr Chill
05-11-08, 11:57 PM
Neither the CTS-V or the GT-R are racecars and will fail if pushed hard for any length of time on the track.

Main point of the sub 8 minute laptime-the CTS-V will be great in the performance (power/handling/braking) department. My only concern is what will prove to be its weak points. Will it creak and rattle like so many American cars do? Will the supercharger break like my AMG did three times? Will it have valvetrain or driveline issues like previous GM performance products (Z06, V1 and others)? Will it really be a world class performance sedan or will it disappoint and be a second-tier player?

The LSA is a torque-master and I do believe it will be the sedan leader for 50-100 mph times (as was the E55) and will beat the GT-R from a rolling start.

v84life
05-12-08, 12:11 AM
Some points after reading this whole thread...
1. Comparing the V2 to the GTR is a compliment to the V
2. Why in the hell does anybody compare it is beyond me.
3. If we are going to compare the GTR to the V then we need to compare it to the 911tt. That was the GTRs benchmark, Nissan stated that.
4. Regarding the V2s weight. All of its competition is within 100-150lbs. So why is there no reference to the M5 being a pig or a E63 or even the tiny RS4 at nearly 4000lbs. Is the new V heavy yes but not out of class.
5. Holly crap here we are on a CADILLAC forum and we get a 7:59 ring time and there is still bashing. I just don't get it.
6. No wheel hop and a iron diff with 550+lbs of torque yipee.

Just had to get this off my chest. I love cars and love competition thats what make us better.:D

StealthViggen
05-12-08, 01:43 AM
There is a reason the Ring is very important number wise. Out of all of the tracks in the world, the ring has proven to be the best test bed for a performancce vehicle. The reason is because it has the best mix of all driving conditions. Up hill turns, downhill turns, level turns, a good mix of long straightaways and because of its length it gives cars time to shine.


I was not questioning the validity of the ring's value as a proving ground. I was commenting on the fact that the manufacturer's time postings have little to no comparative value, once all the variables (weather, driver, season, temp, track condition, tires, wind, etc)have been accounted for. Nissan's own "official" rings times were 10 seconds apart between "official" runs. Nissan engineers have been pounding that thing on the ring for several years now, and they still had a 10 second disparity.



I think you are seriously wrong if you think 2 fast performance vehicles in the same price range do not compete. I am sure if I was thinking of 1 of the 2, i would seriously consider both.

And I think you seriously need to give your head a shake if you think the 2 primary factors that determines a model's competition are speed and price. Is a CL65 AMG competition for a Ferrari 430? They are about the same price, both fast, and hell they even have the same number of doors! Must be direct competition worthy of endless comparison and speculation by Grand Turismo obsessed internet fanboys(Secretly I am a GT5 obsessed fan-man), but hide it well). This comment alone tells me you are probably not older 25. Find me one auto publication, anywhere, that has seriously compared a coupe vs a sedan, except to prove the sedan was exceptional performance, not function. Comparison by it's nature is function of it's intended purpose, and in this case these two cars purposes, or reason for being if you will, are entirely different.



Not hard to determine when you see the V ran the ring in 7.59 and the GTR did a 7.29
Are you serious? My point here is that the PURPOSE of of the GTR is a Track/street fighter, where as that is certainly NOT the CTS-V's purpose.



First you cannot guarantee this, and who races anything from a 10mph roll?

Again, your seriousnous is being called into question. The inference here was to the GTR having superior launching capabilities due to the crazy ass AWD technology.:worship: If the v2 doesn't run at least 5 seconds faster from 60-160 I will eat my words. By the way, lots of people run from rolls. I'd also like to know how many easter egg 3.3 second 0-60 launches the clutch(s) will take in a GTR before it's toast. In a 430 ferrari it is about 7 -10.



I would hope so since its the only one in the comparison that is a luxury sedan.

Point here being that the V2 has a very high end interior, FINALLY befitting it's competition, being of course other luxury sedans. See you undestand purpose of competition here!


First you cannot hold it against a car if it is so in demand it brings a premium under sticker. Then the argument can be made later that the GTR is cheaper because I am sure it will have a better resale value than a Gm product ( I almost exclusively buy GM so don't go there, I know)

I am talking the price one would pay to purchase either or at a dealer if both were available today. If the basis of your valuation is resale, then wouldn't the depreciation of a GM, still continue to make it cheaper on the secondary market? I am not talking about it's investment returns or imparted value as both would be depreciating assets.



And you think the GM driveline in the 4300lb V will be able to handle additional torque?

Well to that all I can say is I hope so. Couple of things to remember, GM put alot of faith in the Gen 2 CTS to finally be a world competing product. They also designed it with the V2 from the drawing table, rather than an after thought like the V1. They will have been very fool hardy to not have corrected the numberone complaint of the current V owning Demo.



Women who screw a car with a nice car do it for a car that is in style. The GTR will be more recognizable to stupid trailer whores. Personally i think the car is ugly, but chicks just think the V is a CTS entry level caddy.

Women who screw cars have bigger problems that what type they screw. I jest. Note I said "quality woman", meaning not someone who will take a boy racer, nissan driving man seriously. 99.99% of women will have no way of seperating the term "nissan", from "altima" or "sentra" in their heads. Probably because quality women are not surfing web forums looking for the newest bench stat to argue about. Not Saying they will screw a guy because he is driving a Cadillac, but it certainly won't make her think housewife grocery getter.


My whole point is that both cars are e'ffing fantastic! Seriously the tops of their individual games, and classes. I actually have huge desire to own one of these 2( and possibly 2-3 other cars). I will have to make my decision in the next 12 monthes or so when I decide it's time for a new ride. The great thing about these ring stat's being published, is once I decide on the main PURPOSE of my new car, it helps me know what potentially is the best performing one. Then like anyone serious about owning a car, I will find the nearest one, drive it, fall in love with it, and when the bank tells me they will loan me the money, I will buy it. That's something you can't do on the internet!

verbs
05-12-08, 01:56 AM
So what? I don't care one way or another that it's not a Supra but to say it is is asnine.

verbs
05-12-08, 02:09 AM
3. The V will absolutely crush a GTR from a 10mph roll all the way to 130+ - I guarantee it! You're an absolute fool if you think that....and the only reason that would ever happen if is if the GT-R hit it's pre-programmecd speedo cutoff when not on a track. A GT-R without any governing will easily beat a CTS-V from a 10mph roll.


6. The V will be more readily modded - Forged 454 LSX + LS9 blower = 900whp all day long

Are you on absolute crack? More readily modded? That right there is going to cost at least $20,000 without all the necessary drivetrain/suspension mods to support all that.

You'll be able to squeeze a lot more power out of the GT-R for a lot less money comapred to the V.


You are so off your kilter here.

urbanski
05-12-08, 06:35 AM
Urb, check your PMs, as I sent you the application for a moderator for the GTR Forum,,,

it didnt come with the bribe so i tossed it
:gtr:

The Tony Show
05-12-08, 07:58 AM
I went home from the bar with a GT-R last night. Not only did I have them time of my life, but I woke up this morning and it was cooking me breakfast and cleaning my house.

Lanman
05-12-08, 08:02 AM
Hey, is that a roll bar I see? Is that going to be standard or an option? I think my kids would love to have a rollbar to swing on after I pick them up from daycare. :p



http://image.motortrend.com/f/features/auto_news/2008/9843360/112_0805_01z+2009_cadillac_CTS-V+nurburgring.jpg

HiTechRV
05-12-08, 08:27 AM
I am thinking Cafe Press:

7:59:32
CTS-V - When pigs fly

I'd wear that with honor LMAO

NormV
05-12-08, 09:10 AM
Hey, is that a roll bar I see? Is that going to be standard or an option? I think my kids would love to have a rollbar to swing on after I pick them up from daycare. :p

Sparco and 5-6 point will keep them from romper room antics! :)

Norm

StealthViggen
05-12-08, 09:15 AM
You're an absolute fool if you think that....and the only reason that would ever happen if is if the GT-R hit it's pre-programmecd speedo cutoff when not on a track. A GT-R without any governing will easily beat a CTS-V from a 10mph roll.
More internet fanboy myth right there. Quote from car and driver:


Well, the crew at Car and Driver set out to dispel the rumors and set the record straight once and for all. For starters, they called up Nissan and asked about the speed limiter, to which Nissan replied that U.S.-spec cars will be redline limited only, with no electronics holding drivers back.

For the record I put about 3-4 cars on an RS4 from a roll to 120. A car that has 20 more hp and also super amazing AWD! Parasitic losses of AWD will cause a car to lose to a RWD car of equal spec everytime.



Are you on absolute crack? More readily modded? That right there is going to cost at least $20,000 without all the necessary drivetrain/suspension mods to support all that.
Would you prefer cam, pulley bolt on's and a tune for 650 whp and a couple of grand? I was higlighting that those mods exist today, and you would have a bullet proof, proven engine setup anyhow. What mods are available for a GTR? Also - Nissan has stated they went out of their way to make the ECU un-hackable to protect the bottom end and driveline. By the way do you know the auto tranny in the V is rated to 800 lb/ft? If you think the nissan DCT tranny isn't going to puke at hp of that kind you need to put the pipe down.



You'll be able to squeeze a lot more power out of the GT-R for a lot less money comapred to the V.

Really.. based on what? Parts that don't yet exist for a GTR? I mean come on, everybody knows how difficult and expensive LSx motors are to mod!(read- sarcasim):cookoo:


You are so off your kilter here.
Maybe, but everything I have stated was based on facts availabe, reasonable deduction, and from research garnered from a potential owner of either car, as opposed to hype and over speculation by people who probably will never own or drive either car.

Dr Chill
05-12-08, 09:39 AM
Just think what the GT-R $25,000 market adjustment would do for the CTS-V in the mod department. Can you say Warhawk and cubic inches? Or maybe coilovers and carbon fiber. The TR-6060 can be beefed up pretty nicely for about $1500 too. It's all irrelevant though because the beauty is at the stock power level, no more power adding is needed aside from induction or exhaust. KEEP YOUR WARRANTY!!!!!! That's my advice. The CTS-V will never be a racecar and it will never be the track equal to a GT-R.

The more you modify a motor, the more you appreciate the stock configuration if there's enough grunt to start with.

Leave the modding to the current M5/M3/E55/E63/RS6/RS4 owners to keep up with the CTS-V!!!

StealthV
05-12-08, 12:59 PM
A M5 isn't even a true V competitor so I find it amusing that we're now comparing Vs to Datsuns.

RightTurn
05-12-08, 01:18 PM
Check :thumbsup:

The Tony Show
05-12-08, 01:30 PM
I heard that driving a GT-R is the cure for Cancer.

urbanski
05-12-08, 01:48 PM
i had a gtr enema last night and man did it work great, lost 2 pounds

Rich H
05-12-08, 02:02 PM
I heard that driving a GT-R is the cure for Cancer.

Only if you're eating shark fin soup hanging out with GT-R crowd. :D

onebadcad
05-12-08, 02:10 PM
i had a gtr enema last night and man did it work great, lost 2 pounds

A two pound loss for the GTR means another return to The Ring to try and lower its time.
Not sure, but I heard a rumor that the GTR was run without passenger & rear seats & no head rest for driver, no insulation & carpeting, one gallon of gas, sans gas cap and missing a quart of oil, no A/C parts, inner panels and trunk lid removed, no audio equipment, no rearview mirror & no side mirrors, three lugnuts per wheel, no emblems, driver weighed 85lbs-did lap in birthday suit, etc...

The V3 will probably post just north of 7:00 in 2013, what a great car!

P-Funk
05-12-08, 02:37 PM
no emblems

But it had the added paint weight of "2fitty wuz here" on the side of it.

onebadcad
05-12-08, 03:08 PM
But it had the added paint weight of "2fitty wuz here" on the side of it.

LOL!!!
2fitty will definitely be a Supporting Member and Top Tier Poster on the GTR boards, as will Toysnob. I may join, too, but only to remind them of the V2's grand accomplishments; that will fill the first page.

urbanski
05-12-08, 03:18 PM
:2fiddy:

StealthViggen
05-12-08, 03:24 PM
A M5 isn't even a true V competitor so I find it amusing that we're now comparing Vs to Datsuns.

Exactly! I am waiting to see the RS6 comparison. That is the only 4 door current/coming Gen of competitor for the V. C63 AMg is close, but too small, and has a cheesy interior.

HiTechRV
05-12-08, 03:27 PM
A M5 isn't even a true V competitor so I find it amusing that we're now comparing Vs to Datsuns.

LMAO +1

GNSCOTT
05-12-08, 04:55 PM
I was not questioning the validity of the ring's value as a proving ground. I was commenting on the fact that the manufacturer's time postings have little to no comparative value, once all the variables (weather, driver, season, temp, track condition, tires, wind, etc)have been accounted for. Nissan's own "official" rings times were 10 seconds apart between "official" runs. Nissan engineers have been pounding that thing on the ring for several years now, and they still had a 10 second disparity.




And I think you seriously need to give your head a shake if you think the 2 primary factors that determines a model's competition are speed and price. Is a CL65 AMG competition for a Ferrari 430? They are about the same price, both fast, and hell they even have the same number of doors! Must be direct competition worthy of endless comparison and speculation by Grand Turismo obsessed internet fanboys(Secretly I am a GT5 obsessed fan-man), but hide it well). This comment alone tells me you are probably not older 25. Find me one auto publication, anywhere, that has seriously compared a coupe vs a sedan, except to prove the sedan was exceptional performance, not function. Comparison by it's nature is function of it's intended purpose, and in this case these two cars purposes, or reason for being if you will, are entirely different.



Are you serious? My point here is that the PURPOSE of of the GTR is a Track/street fighter, where as that is certainly NOT the CTS-V's purpose.


Again, your seriousnous is being called into question. The inference here was to the GTR having superior launching capabilities due to the crazy ass AWD technology.:worship: If the v2 doesn't run at least 5 seconds faster from 60-160 I will eat my words. By the way, lots of people run from rolls. I'd also like to know how many easter egg 3.3 second 0-60 launches the clutch(s) will take in a GTR before it's toast. In a 430 ferrari it is about 7 -10.


Point here being that the V2 has a very high end interior, FINALLY befitting it's competition, being of course other luxury sedans. See you undestand purpose of competition here!


I am talking the price one would pay to purchase either or at a dealer if both were available today. If the basis of your valuation is resale, then wouldn't the depreciation of a GM, still continue to make it cheaper on the secondary market? I am not talking about it's investment returns or imparted value as both would be depreciating assets.


Well to that all I can say is I hope so. Couple of things to remember, GM put alot of faith in the Gen 2 CTS to finally be a world competing product. They also designed it with the V2 from the drawing table, rather than an after thought like the V1. They will have been very fool hardy to not have corrected the numberone complaint of the current V owning Demo.


Women who screw cars have bigger problems that what type they screw. I jest. Note I said "quality woman", meaning not someone who will take a boy racer, nissan driving man seriously. 99.99% of women will have no way of seperating the term "nissan", from "altima" or "sentra" in their heads. Probably because quality women are not surfing web forums looking for the newest bench stat to argue about. Not Saying they will screw a guy because he is driving a Cadillac, but it certainly won't make her think housewife grocery getter.


My whole point is that both cars are e'ffing fantastic! Seriously the tops of their individual games, and classes. I actually have huge desire to own one of these 2( and possibly 2-3 other cars). I will have to make my decision in the next 12 monthes or so when I decide it's time for a new ride. The great thing about these ring stat's being published, is once I decide on the main PURPOSE of my new car, it helps me know what potentially is the best performing one. Then like anyone serious about owning a car, I will find the nearest one, drive it, fall in love with it, and when the bank tells me they will loan me the money, I will buy it. That's something you can't do on the internet!

First, even with the 10 sec disparity, the GTR beats the higher HP and MUCH lighter Z06. I say theis and I am an 08 Z06 owner.

second, when buying a perfomance vehicle performance and cost are the two top factors. Seating, like you mention may be #3. The V seats 5 and the GTR seats 4. No it will not be shopped closely as a Vette and a GTR, but when it will compare enough that it will take away V2 sales and it does not take that many steals to hurt a niche vehicle like the V.

third. Why are you buying a V over the regular CTS if you are not looking for a perfomance car or "track" vehicle? The V's suspension is tuned at a race track, and with the numbers it put up it proves it is a track vehicle.

fourth, the V2 will never reel in the GTR unless we are talking factory speed limiters. The GTR is a mid 11 sec 1/4 mile car and I doubt the V will reel in a half second or more disadvantage in the next 35mph to even tie the GTR let alone destroy it by...HOW MUCH?? 5 SECONDS!!!!???? nooooo way.

fifth, There is not a GM car that i know of with a " very high end" interior. I also own an 07 Escalade and that interior is the same crappy GM materials, but I knew this when I bought it. I am not an interior stickler and do not need premium cow on my dashboard that I will never touch, but to say that the V has anything special about its interior is also a stretch. There was nothing special about my V1's interios either.

6th, my point being is you have to compare both cars at msrp because not everyone will pay a mark up, some, all be it rare, will also get a GTR below msrp. Resale value will always be a good test and if history repeats for the millionth time, the caddy will tank like every GM vehicle does, and I think for years to come the GTR will fare much better (of course MHO)

7th the girl thing is a joke but the GTR will be more recognizable. You can pull up in a V2 and a kid can pull up next to you in a 2001 M3 and the girls will flock to the M3 first. No one knew what my V was when I had it.

I agree both are great cars and i would love to have either/both. i think you will also cross shop them when you go to buy.

verbs
05-12-08, 05:17 PM
More internet fanboy myth right there. Quote from car and driver:OK, so Europe cars will have the limiter, US ones won't....so as I said before, unless the car has a limiter, it's not going to lose to a CTS-V from 10-130mph.



For the record I put about 3-4 cars on an RS4 from a roll to 120. A car that has 20 more hp and also super amazing AWD! Parasitic losses of AWD will cause a car to lose to a RWD car of equal spec everytime.Quit looking at peak hp #s as the end all, there are numerous other factors including gearing, driver ability, bad spark plug, who knows, etc. For the record, what happened in two completely different cars is pretty apples to oranges.

If you think for one moment that from a 10mph roll a CTS-V and its 500+lb-ft of torque and RWD isn't going to have traction problems, you're nuts. The GT-R will dead hook and the CTS-V will have to feather the throttle....allowing the GT-R to get a big head start. Not to mention the GT-R will not get caught, especially as speeds increase into the 130+mph range, and the GT-R's sleek .27 Drag Coefficient help out.....not to mention GM's cars tend to peter out after 4th gear since 5th gear is historically geared like a 1st overdrive.



Would you prefer cam, pulley bolt on's and a tune for 650 whp and a couple of grand? A couple grand? Cam alone with parts and install is going to be almost a couple grand. The bolt ons/mods you'd need to make 650rwhp would easily be $5,000, between headers/intake/exhaust/tune/pulley/cam etc. I'm also going to tell you there's no way the LSA motor is going to reliably handle 650rwhp with the hyper-pathetic pistons it comes with. You underestimate the cost and the motor's ability to handle this power. The biggest point I was trying to make is that the motor of the GT-R is built to handle more serious power upgrades without having to worry about the motor grenading.



I was higlighting that those mods exist today, and you would have a bullet proof, proven engine setup anyhow. What mods are available for a GTR?You said more readily modded. A complete motor and blower swap doesn't sound to me like it's "readily modded." What mods are available on a GT-R? Boost controller would be an easy one, eventually once the tuning is cracked, and it will be, every car makers' tuning gets cracked eventually, a turbo swap will make huge power.


Also - Nissan has stated they went out of their way to make the ECU un-hackable to protect the bottom end and driveline.Just like Ford said no one would be able to do pulley swaps on their blown Mustangs. :bigroll: It'll get cracked (the GT-R's ECU)



By the way do you know the auto tranny in the V is rated to 800 lb/ft? If you think the nissan DCT tranny isn't going to puke at hp of that kind you need to put the pipe down.If you think the LSA isn't going to puke at that hp level you need to put the pipe down. You also don't know how much hp the DCT is rated at. The DCT in the Bugatti can obviously handle 1001hp without breaking a sweat.



Really.. based on what? Parts that don't yet exist for a GTR? I mean come on, everybody knows how difficult and expensive LSx motors are to mod!(read- sarcasim):cookoo:Gee, down pipes and boost controllers don't exist for GT-Rs? :eek: There are many universal products on the market that can work...




Maybe, but everything I have stated was based on facts availabe, reasonable deduction, and from research garnered from a potential owner of either car, as opposed to hype and over speculation by people who probably will never own or drive either car.In other words you're completely speculating and have no hard evidence for any of your claims. :thumbsup:

The Tony Show
05-12-08, 05:22 PM
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii137/the_tonyshow/internet.jpg

onebadcad
05-12-08, 05:36 PM
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii137/the_tonyshow/internet.jpg

I like your GIF, better than your avatar and post.
And please refrain from any non-technical comments in this thread, or else you may go the way of 2fitty.

RightTurn
05-12-08, 05:39 PM
:food-snacking:

JEM
05-12-08, 09:31 PM
First, even with the 10 sec disparity, the GTR beats the higher HP and MUCH lighter Z06. I say theis and I am an 08 Z06 owner.


So what tires was the Z06 running during its timed laps?




second, when buying a perfomance vehicle performance and cost are the two top factors. Seating, like you mention may be #3. The V seats 5 and the GTR seats 4. No it will not be shopped closely as a Vette and a GTR, but when it will compare enough that it will take away V2 sales and it does not take that many steals to hurt a niche vehicle like the V.


There's different groups of people who might shop the V. First, there's the ones who just want the next hot toy. Most of those don't need or necessarily want a sedan, they buy on impulse and no matter what they buy they won't keep it long.

Then there's the folks like me who'd never consider the GT-R purely on the basis of door count. It's a four-seater like a G37 is a four-seater; as far as we real-world types are concerned even the CTS is barely a real-world four seats and we're holding out for a wagon (or buying an E63 wagon instead if GM don't fork over the hauler.)

And there's a contingent who'll buy the CTS-V because it's Dee-Troit Ahn, and another contingent who'll buy the GT-R because it Fazzt and Furiouz, and those two demographics don't cross over much.

In the real world, GM has to snag buyers from the Euro sedans and convince them the car isn't a bunch of creaking plastic with peeling paint.



third. Why are you buying a V over the regular CTS if you are not looking for a perfomance car or "track" vehicle? The V's suspension is tuned at a race track, and with the numbers it put up it proves it is a track vehicle.


Because we can. Seriously, nothing of the CTS' mass will ever be an optimum track car. The same is true of the GT-R. Anything that heavy used regularly on track will eat tires, eat brakes, eat suspension parts, and being stuffed full of niceties like cruise-control and subwoofers it'll be pain in the ass to work on. Buy a Radical or something similar and an old Tahoe to tow it with - or if you have to have something streetable a C5 Z06 or an old Mustang and strip everything out of it that doesn't make it go.


fifth, There is not a GM car that i know of with a " very high end" interior. I also own an 07 Escalade and that interior is the same crappy GM materials, but I knew this when I bought it. I am not an interior stickler and do not need premium cow on my dashboard that I will never touch, but to say that the V has anything special about its interior is also a stretch. There was nothing special about my V1's interios either.


The V1's interior convinced a lot of folks to keep their BMWs...

The Tony Show
05-12-08, 10:08 PM
I like your GIF, better than your avatar and post.
And please refrain from any non-technical comments in this thread, or else you may go the way of 2fitty.

:whut:?

Oh, right- technical. Hmmm.....let's see.......The source of David Copperfield's magic is a tiny die-cast GT-R hidden in his pocket. :thumbsup:

Seriously guys- do one or two of you need to ruin every friggin thread in this forum with the GT-R comparisons?

We get it.
You like the GT-R.
Here's an e-cookie.
Now go hang out on the GT-R forum, or at least have the class and good manners to start a SINGLE GT-R thread to contain all this nonsense in.

StealthViggen
05-12-08, 10:29 PM
Quit looking at peak hp #s as the end all, there are numerous other factors including gearing, driver ability, bad spark plug, who knows, etc. For the record, what happened in two completely different cars is pretty apples to oranges.

Who is looking at peak hp. First off Sustained torque over the RPM range is what causes acceleration. Torque is a force, HP is a fomula. My point was that AWD cars will lose eveytime to a RWD car from a roll. I also think the analogy of my V being of about equal hp and weight to an RS4, with the RS4 having a technically superior engine and drive train, yet still losing to me from a roll was pretty good support for that.


If you think for one moment that from a 10mph roll a CTS-V and its 500+lb-ft of torque and RWD isn't going to have traction problems, you're nuts. The GT-R will dead hook and the CTS-V will have to feather the throttle....allowing the GT-R to get a big head start. Not to mention the GT-R will not get caught, especially as speeds increase into the 130+mph range, and the GT-R's sleek .27 Drag Coefficient help out.....not to mention GM's cars tend to peter out after 4th gear since 5th gear is historically geared like a 1st overdrive.

Well seeing as nobody knows how the new electronic diff or performance traction management for the v2 works yet you may well be right, but seeing as they were designed with the ZR1 having to hook up that beast of an LS9, I am guessing it will be a none issue. I am still betting the that the 60-160 times on the V2 will be shocking


A couple grand? Cam alone with parts and install is going to be almost a couple grand. The bolt ons/mods you'd need to make 650rwhp would easily be $5,000, between headers/intake/exhaust/tune/pulley/cam etc. I'm also going to tell you there's no way the LSA motor is going to reliably handle 650rwhp with the hyper-pathetic pistons it comes with. You underestimate the cost and the motor's ability to handle this power. The biggest point I was trying to make is that the motor of the GT-R is built to handle more serious power upgrades without having to worry about the motor grenading.

5 large is a bit of a stretch for those LSx mods pal, but even assuming so, do you really think any mods for the GTR, to bring it to the same level of HP will be under that? I had more than 5 K in mods to bring my TT Z to 400+ whp) For the record I also had a 1970 GTO judge with a 406 Ponch big block, built with Hyper-U's that made 540 ft/lbs and regularly took a 250 shot of nitrous. Nothing wrong with hyper-u's with the right silica compound. Also what exactly are you basing this notion that the VR38 is indestructable? Are you privy to some secret clan of GTR owners who have modded theirs to those levels yet? All the board speculation is that the engine was designed to take up to 600hp(not whp) Show me one 1 GTR making 650whp right now(supposedly Amuse has tuned a GTR to an estimated 600 bhp, but they are having problems with it and are not offering mods to customers yet)? In fact without larger turbos, that motor will probably not make much more than 525 whp, simply based on the volume/cfm of air they can flow. They are sequencial turbos, intended to spool fast and get the air velocity going quickly, not make huge power. I am certain the first turbo upgrades for a GTR will be 7K + just for the snails, especially since the exhaust housing for the IHI turbos is part of the cast exhaust manifold( read-needs new manifolds to work with any other turbo). Let alone the price tuner shops are going to charge to work on one or offer parts. I really think everyone is basing the pontential of GTR on the reputation of godzilla's past. Most people forget that the 1000 whp RB motors probably cost 40K plus to build.


You said more readily modded. A complete motor and blower swap doesn't sound to me like it's "readily modded." What mods are available on a GT-R? Boost controller would be an easy one, eventually once the tuning is cracked, and it will be, every car makers' tuning gets cracked eventually, a turbo swap will make huge power.


Yes I said "readily modded" as in there are proven, relatively cheap mods "ready" and waiting right now waiting for the V2. Parts are available from a throttle body all the way to a complete hardcore big cube monster, TODAY. Unlike the minor mods avilable for a GTR right now. What kind of a clown are you that you think you can slap on a boost controller to the GTR and be done with it. "Tuners" like you are why Nissan locked down the ECU in the first place. Again, turbos alone will be 5K plus, nevermind the supporting mods, when and if they are available speculation boy.



Just like Ford said no one would be able to do pulley swaps on their blown Mustangs. :bigroll: It'll get cracked (the GT-R's ECU) I am not saying it won't be cracked( it sort of has been already by a few tuners, IE speed limiter) I am saying Nissan went out of their way to to keep people from doing it for a reason. Whether it's the bottom end or the tranny, they were protecting something.



If you think the LSA isn't going to puke at that hp level you need to put the pipe down. You also don't know how much hp the DCT is rated at. The DCT in the Bugatti can obviously handle 1001hp without breaking a sweat.
You are soooo right! And the Veyron only costs 1.7 million dollars and 500 million to develop. That's total support for the 70K GTR taking a gajillion torques thanks to it's new boost controller and downpipe. Then again, this IS the internet and anything is possible:thumbsup:



Gee, down pipes and boost controllers don't exist for GT-Rs? :eek: There are many universal products on the market that can work...


:eek:I certainly hope no one lets you near a GTR. Ever.



In other words you're completely speculating and have no hard evidence for any of your claims.

Yes sir. I am the new speculation king. Made it all up.:highfive:

StealthV
05-12-08, 11:01 PM
In recogniction of breaking the eight minute mark - Cadillac, have a lap dance on us.

http://www.lapdancevip.com/images/twenty-dollars-for-a-lap-dance-free.gif


Lap dance.:histeric: :nana2:

lawfive
05-12-08, 11:44 PM
Wow, I missed a lot here in just a couple of days. Kudos to Caddy! :thumbsup:

The bashing gets tiring to read, though. But as long as we're doing it: :bouncy:



I could care less bout the "GT-r "

But I am a stickler for semantics.

Surely you mean "couldn't care less" or "could care more," old chap. Since you're a stickler for semantics and all...

v84life
05-12-08, 11:56 PM
What forum is this???:patriot:

lawfive
05-13-08, 12:09 AM
Teh GT-R grammar police forumz.

StealthV
05-13-08, 08:20 AM
What forum is this???:patriot:

It's the one where Cimmarons and Cateras are direct and entirely equal competitors to European cars and now Datsuns - All for less money. Yay!

Another way to say it - We're all chomping at the bit for V2 and the wait is killing us. :highfive:

Bring out your dead!

Blackout
05-13-08, 11:15 AM
Wow. I haven't been on a computer in a couple of days and I came back to this cluster fawk. There has been some very good points brought up in this thread and a lot of talking out your azz posts in here as well. First off the GT-R's engine has already been dyno'd so here are the results. According to Motor Trend the GT-R is making at least 507 hp at the crank but at the wheels it's putting down 435.8 hp @ 6800 rpm & 439.1 lb-ft @ 3900 rpm in 4th gear. They have no idea as to how much power it loses through the power train so they set up 3 different power train losses and these are the numbers it would be putting out

15% loss 20% loss 25% loss
Horsepower 506.6 hp 538.3 hp 574.1 hp
Torque 500.4 tq 531.6 tq 567.1 tq

Second, Mine's cracked the GT-R's ECU before the car was even released in Japan and since then I believe Top Secret and HKS have cracked the ECU IIRC. So the ECU isn't a problem anymore.

Mod's for the GT-R, once again just because they aren't available here doesn't mean there isn't anything out for them yet. Lots of the big name Japanese tuner companies already have different packages available for the GT-R.

As for the GT-R's AWD system, the car only throws power to the front wheels when it senses slip or it needs power to the front wheels. I believe the max power it throws to the front wheels is only like 30% or something like that. From a dead stop it will use the AWD to launch it but once at WOT it will disengage the power to the front wheels essentially making the car RWD.

Everybody seems to be comparing the V2 to the GT-R (I have no idea why but it has been amusing). I doubt too many people are going to be cross shopping a domestic 4 door luxury sedan to a 2 door Nissan racer. But quite a few people have been making statements that, "The GT-R isn't a car I'd consider because it's missing two doors" well my question to you is then what is your feelings on the possibility of Cadillac and the CTS-V coupe? I'm sure you're pretty psyched for that to come out aren't you?

But this talk between these two cars is just funny. Two totally different cars for two totally different crowds. Nissan said from day 1 that the 911TT is the GT-R's main goal to beat. They did.[/END_THREAD]

urbanski
05-13-08, 11:42 AM
gtr :shlick:

chris1268
05-13-08, 12:04 PM
Better yet, someone please tell me why there is so much discussion about the GTR on this site??

Blackout
05-13-08, 12:05 PM
Someone please tell me what this GTR discussion has to do with wheel-hop??????

Someone please tell me when we were even discussing wheel hop in this thread??????

chris1268
05-13-08, 12:11 PM
Oops - wrong thread. I can't seem to keep them all straight since the discussion about the GTR seems to get into every one of them. Get over the GTR already and move on.

onebadcad
05-13-08, 02:49 PM
This thread has swayed me, as I was going to buy a V2 and was considering also getting a GTR/GT-R (is there a hyphen, damn grammar police).
Now I am buying two GTRs (I have decided no hyphen, takes too long to type), one that does a 7:55 lap time and the other one which dials in at 7:44 (damn, I hope the quicker one does not have a pricing premium) and no V2.
I would like to thank the Cadillac Forums for helping me make my final decision-every thread needs a bit of irony.

BTW, BO, The Red Devils will prevail on 03/21, just as they did in the EPL!!!

JEM
05-13-08, 06:12 PM
Oops - wrong thread. I can't seem to keep them all straight since the discussion about the GTR seems to get into every one of them. Get over the GTR already and move on.

Yeah, I've been waiting for someone to suggest that the GT-R cures venereal warts and will get you a 4.25% home loan with no credit check.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-13-08, 07:38 PM
It cures Cancer, AIDS and is guaranteed to get you a 4.0% home loan, and it automatically makes your credit score 770. And you should see what happens when you order the optional flux capicator. Woooh!

Blackout
05-13-08, 09:11 PM
BTW, BO, The Red Devils will prevail on 03/21, just as they did in the EPL!!!Your damn straight they are going to win! Screw Chelsea! Cristiano Ronaldo will have 2 goals tomorrow and I hope Drogba gets red carded.

StealthV
05-13-08, 10:59 PM
Yes, but this is a real Cadillac.

http://www.gmphotostore.com/images/53218236_pr.jpg


Lap time at the 'Ring = under 8 minutes...err 18 minutes. It would be fun to see what she'd do. Who's up for a road trip to Deustchland? (We need a bridge across the Atlantic)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-13-08, 11:39 PM
Let's take this instead.

http://www.familyclassiccars.com/wp-content/uploads/1930-cadillac-v16-4door-all-weath-phaeton-low-res.jpg

Sixteen cylinders of badassness!! (never mind the fact it's probably only 180hp)

JEM
05-14-08, 04:36 AM
Sixteen cylinders of badassness!! (never mind the fact it's probably only 180hp)

Y'know, I'd been thinking that I need to get one of the old GMC 702ci V12 truck motors (a real sweet one just went for $3K on eBay), hang four GT25s on it (don't even think about revs, it's seriously oversquare but it's got a really long crank...), build a nice quarter-elliptic-sprung underslung-axle frame for it, set it up to run flex gasoline/E85, then hit GM up for some FlexFuel marketing money to get someone to beat a nice set of late '20s/early '30s-ish Brooklands-roadster aluminum body panels for it.

If Heinricy wants to help with a couple weeks of suspension-setup work at the Nordschleife, get some arms-and-elbows Nuvolariesque shots for his office wall, i'd be more than happy to oblige.

My God, I just looked up the Wikipedia entry for Reid Railton, I had no idea he spent the last half of his life thirty miles from here...

thebigjimsho
05-14-08, 07:53 AM
Y'know, I'd been thinking that I need to get one of the old GMC 702ci V12 truck motors (a real sweet one just went for $3K on eBay), hang four GT25s on it (don't even think about revs, it's seriously oversquare but it's got a really long crank...), build a nice quarter-elliptic-sprung underslung-axle frame for it, set it up to run flex gasoline/E85, then hit GM up for some FlexFuel marketing money to get someone to beat a nice set of late '20s/early '30s-ish Brooklands-roadster aluminum body panels for it.

If Heinricy wants to help with a couple weeks of suspension-setup work at the Nordschleife, get some arms-and-elbows Nuvolariesque shots for his office wall, i'd be more than happy to oblige.

My God, I just looked up the Wikipedia entry for Reid Railton, I had no idea he spent the last half of his life thirty miles from here...Even if you have the knowledge to do all that, what kind of alcohol are you drinking to put that together at 1:30AM?

JEM
05-14-08, 01:57 PM
Even if you have the knowledge to do all that, what kind of alcohol are you drinking to put that together at 1:30AM?

Actually, the idea started kicking around a few months back when I found a listing for an old Packard frame on eBay that eventually sold for a couple hundred bucks. I think it'd be worth the time and expense to do something from scratch, though; I'd be willing to sacrifice a little period-correctness (on the assumption that it'd be fully-clothed anyway) to get a stiffer and more maintainable design with the frame set lower between/under the axles. This is kind of a "spend a year collecting pictures and drawings of old racers" research project at this point and may never go any further.

I've got the skills, or access to people with the skills, to do the mechanical work and most of the chassis layout and fab work, the body design and construction is beyond me and possibly beyond my budget unless I can find someone who just falls in love with the project (or someone who wants to throw some money at it.)

As for 130AM - the toddler went to sleep around 10, I ducked out to the garage to clean up a bit, ended up pulling the electronics out of the left rear of the M5 to reseat some connectors and try to fix an intermittent front-speaker cutout, buttoned it all up and decided to check email one more time before bed...

phantasms
05-15-08, 01:56 PM
The thing looks incredible. This may have to be my next car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky8ZiO6ebn0&fmt=18

crankedupforit
05-15-08, 09:29 PM
does not neccesarily? You are kidding?

It either does or it doesn't. No inbetween. So which is it? (just be aware that this is a setup question).

as for comparo,

weight are about the same
power about the same (no SAE number for CTS-V so we will see).
priced about the same

One has two doors less. And because of that it is classified as a sport car instead of something else.

you guys are funny!

Add two more doors (more weight) lengthen the wheelbase (more weight) make it a practical 4 person sedan (more weight) and see what it does. That car is an absolute hog for it's class and needs every pony it can muster. Besides imagine the repair costs on that ringer engine. When that thing breaks you'll need a second mortgage to get it fixed. Not exactly main stream. Get over it dude they're not the same.

JEM
05-16-08, 02:12 AM
Add two more doors (more weight) lengthen the wheelbase (more weight) make it a practical 4 person sedan (more weight) and see what it does. That car is an absolute hog for it's class and needs every pony it can muster. Besides imagine the repair costs on that ringer engine. When that thing breaks you'll need a second mortgage to get it fixed. Not exactly main stream. Get over it dude they're not the same.

Are we talking GT-R again?

Like I said earlier, the early-adopters who buy the latest toy as a toy and flips it for the next one in a year might consider both, but I can't imagine that most would-be CTS-V shoppers would ever consider one.

E63, C63, really any V8 E-class. I'm inclined to think anyone who buys that useless Benz CLS probably cares more that it's a Benz than anything else. M5, yeah, but it's not really aging well and you've got to like the SMG to like the car. 550i, sure. The new M3 is a direct competitor as are the Audi S4 and RS4. Audi S6 and RS6, maybe; the RS6 will be high on the toy-car-shoppers' lists so you'll see a lot of 'em back on the market in eighteen months, and with Audi it's always a crapshoot whether a new sports model will feel like a rocketship or a lead zeppelin. And I think some of the 300C SRT8 guys will probably be ready for Whatever's Next.

I'd always figured the STS-V's natural target was the Jag XJR market, but the car wasn't quite good enough to pull it off. Jag had a really nice moneybags demographic but Tata's gonna have a hard time pulling that mess back together. I dunno, I like the old S-type better than the new XF, but the one thing about Jag is that compared to the frantic 'net community you find for BMW, or even GM products, there just ain't nothin' for late Jags.