:) When to comes to Subwoofer enclosures which ones sound best to you, Sealed or Ported ?


Mike

Depends entirely on if you want clarity or thump and the type of trunk set up that you have. Generally i would say i like ported

I like ported too.

When it comes to good solid clean bass in a 12 volt sound system Computer tuned Sealed enclosure designs are the way to go. You can drive the subwoofers with more power and produce less distortion at various frequencys. You only gain 3db with a ported enclosure at the one single frequency that it is tuned for. I have tried many different enclosure designs using the same subwoofers in all of them, the results were amazing. My choice is sealed hands down ;)

If you want SPL then go ported, otherwise stick with sealed.

Dude, the best bass i have heard would be a bandpass box, my 10" kickers sound like other people 12's. Some people still dont believe me when i tell them they are 10's, because you cant see them, i dont have any glass on the box at all. I put 4 small 1.5" ports on the box and it sounds and feels great!!

Well,
It really depends on personal choice, and what works for you might not satisfy others, and alot depends on your vehicle > you have cabin gain factors involved, I myself have not found a ported or vented enclosure that satisfied me, but i am in to sound quality not SPL so there is a big difference in systems. I like my music to sound good Inside the car > no rattles > Smooth Bass > and Crystal Clear Highs > with 0%Distortion. I have found that people go through changes with their sound and usually progress from a system that can be heard from 5 blocks away to a Sound Quality/Mobile Video system that is more "enjoyable" to listen to. :spin:

Bandpass is the worst setup to go with, it only good for making $25 woofer sound better than they are, because your covering up the sloppy signal . Ported can sound very nice if tune properly, and you stick to music that is close in deep frequencies. But for all type of music your best setup will always be sealed, it will give you tight clean and accurate bass.

Bandpass -- Worst setup?? Is that why bose has all bandpass subs on their home theater system? Or maybe $2000 speakers are cheap and crappy, depends what you are looking at. I guess im lookings at the $500 and less here, lets not get rediculous. Really the bandpass is a sealed enclousure with a ported encosure so you get the best of both boxes in one package. Yeah! By the way MTX?? those are cheap speakers.

Bandpass -- Worst setup?? Is that why bose has all bandpass subs on their home theater system? Or maybe $2000 speakers are cheap and crappy, depends what you are looking at. I guess im lookings at the $500 and less here, lets not get rediculous. Really the bandpass is a sealed enclousure with a ported encosure so you get the best of both boxes in one package. Yeah! By the way MTX?? those are cheap speakers.Wow that hurt, get a LIFE. I have these "cheap" MTX speaker because they retailed at $250-$300 and I got them for $52 each so yes they are cheap. I knew some idiot would bring up the highly tuned and advance BOSE bandpass that are multiple chambered, but too bad we're talking about car audio which is totally different. All bandpass is mainly crappy because you have to tuned their boxes incredibly well for them to perform decent on multiple frequencies, your basic bandpass enclosure will sound like crap next to the rest. Unless you like sloppy hard hitting bass, if thats the case get a pair of 15's.

Have you ever noticed that most all the Factory Loaded Bandpass enclosures have the "Cheapest" subs the Company makes in them? Infamous Lac is right> Bandpass enclosures do make "Cheap" subwoofers sound great, but I would Never want to install premium grade subwoofers into one, Like i said before and keep in mind i am in this business > I have tried many different sub enclosures using the same subwoofer and amp and every time i installed that sub in a ported>vented or bandpass enclosure i had to turn the amp way down to keep the sub from distorting and the actual "sound" of the bass diminished greatly. When you have heard what high quality subs sound like in a computer tuned sealed enclosure, you will never go back to the bandpass style enclosures. :spin:

Well i guess thats alright if im an idiot, but i have built about 20 bandpass boxes from scratch, and yup, most of them dont sound that great. But what happens, when you do put a good speaker in one, its amazing. I have some $8 subs from jcwhitney that dont sound too bad in a bandpass, so yes, they do make cheap speakers sound better. I did get lucky on two of the boxes i made. One was in an 86 monte carlo, and one was in a honda accord. The monte has the 2 10" kickers and distortion?, I only have a 50 watt/channel amp on them so there is none of that. But they do sound as good as some poeple with 300 watts on each 12" woofer that they designed. So I am very pleased with them. Then came the honda accord, that blew my mind. One 12" rockford in a gigantic bandpass with dual 3" ports, holy cow. He put a good clean 200 watts on that with a lightning cap and that shook the whole car. By the way, older honda accords are awesome cars for stereos. Its like they were designed to be ugraded. Oh, bandpasses dont sound worth a shit unless you set the crossover to 50 Hertz and less. Besides, your good high end speakers will reprodue the rest of the frequenices anyway.

Well i guess thats alright if im an idiot, but i have built about 20 bandpass boxes from scratch, and yup, most of them dont sound that great. But what happens, when you do put a good speaker in one, its amazing. I have some $8 subs from jcwhitney that dont sound too bad in a bandpass, so yes, they do make cheap speakers sound better. I did get lucky on two of the boxes i made.

Agreed > And if you will note at the beginning of this thread the question was > Which one Sounds Best to You! We all have our own special preferences when it comes to the sound we like and our music. I will have to hand it to you Jodean > building your own bandpass box can be very difficult and time consuming > alot of trial and error when using different combinations of subwoofers, but you seem to be very determined and you must enjoy the challenge which is a good thing. I did hear one ported enclosure that i liked, it was hand built in a Mazda mini truck, it had four 10" subs and four ports at the bottom of the box, it hit Real Hard > i was impressed, the guy had two Orion 225 amps driving the four tens, seemed to be a great combination. There are many variations in 12 volt systems today, each one should be as unique as the individual who puts them together. :spin:

A few years ago I had a 92 Accord with two Cerwin Vega/Vega series 15's in a giant ported box that was ported into the cabin. The bass was a bit sloppy, but got so loud you couldn't tell! Lets remeber these are all opinions, I just have a meaner way of getting mine out.

Any one else have any suggestions as to what works best for them?

Sealed. No question about it. Nowadays you can buy a single sub (and the amp to match it) that handles more power and more efficiently than 4 subs just a few years ago. You can have both SPL and the SQ you can only get from a sealed enclosure.

Bandpass are great enclosures as well. Sure, they can make a lousy sub sound "ok", but they can also make a good sub sound superb. Only thing, the enclosure has to be perfectly built. By the way, some of the finest subs in the car audio industry are specifically designed for bandpass enclosures...

Ported... sure, if you prefer loudness over quality.

I think Sealed is also a better way to go. Also its good to see what the manufacturer actually reccomends for their subwoofer; sealed, ported etc. You can hurt some subs that arent meant for sealed boxes because of pressure holding the cone back.

FREE AIR!!!!!!!!! ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!

Just kidding. SEALED.

Any one else have any suggestions as to what works best for them?

i will always by a bandpass box, my system in the caddy sounds amazing, just one thing that i love about bandpass boxes is the cool things that you can put into them for lights and stuff.tight bass just doesn't sound right to me, where as a bandpass creates that nice wave effect when it travels back into the vehicle.

sealed is nice, its less hit or miss than ported, but ported boxes have lower bass extension. that 3db that you can gain is a big deal. it can mean a lot when you are looking to hit say a 35hz tone. the sealed box is real easy to make, takes up less space but for overall listening quality the ported is the way to go. you gotta know what you are doing a whole lot more with the ported setup. i personally like both sealed and ported. ive built hundreds of boxes both ways. some drivers require a ported box because of the xmax and air that they push from the back of the cone. in most cases if you are inexpierienced you should just go with sealed. usually .75- 1.25 cu. ft. is sufficient for a 10" or 12." anymore questions feel free to ask. peace

Ok I have an 85 Fleetwood D'Elegance and in my trunk my "spare sits in the back, so I have no choice but to sit my subs (when I get them) up close to the front.


My question is....

Should I get a "sealed" box and I want some hard thumpin bass, but I want clarity as well. I was thinking about getting 2 "12's". For those with the big caddy's what would be a good set-up, in my case?

Thanks

Ok I have an 85 Fleetwood D'Elegance and in my trunk my "spare sits in the back, so I have no choice but to sit my subs (when I get them) up close to the front.


My question is....

Should I get a "sealed" box and I want some hard thumpin bass, but I want clarity as well. I was thinking about getting 2 "12's". For those with the big caddy's what would be a good set-up, in my case?

Thanks
There is the option of getting a ported box.. then you take it and stuff it with sound insulation (cotton like fiber stuff) and it makes it "fake" like its actually a sealed box. Excellent results, and it still vents the air pressure built-up inside.

One word for those who need lots of bass without much space.....Solo-Baric !

Kicker Solo-Baric Speakers (http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/KIC02S10L54) http://images.cardomain.com/products/kic/KIC02S10L54.jpg

One word for those who need lots of bass without much space.....Solo-Baric !

Kicker Solo-Baric Speakers (http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/KIC02S10L54) http://images.cardomain.com/products/kic/KIC02S10L54.jpg

my friend has two of those in a ported box and they kick some serious bass, that is why i have demed him "Loudest Buick In The Town".

Ok I have an 85 Fleetwood D'Elegance and in my trunk my "spare sits in the back, so I have no choice but to sit my subs (when I get them) up close to the front.


My question is....

Should I get a "sealed" box and I want some hard thumpin bass, but I want clarity as well. I was thinking about getting 2 "12's". For those with the big caddy's what would be a good set-up, in my case?

Thanks

I just checked out your ride on Car Domain> Those Big Body Caddy's like you have need at least two 12" subs and a nice 1000 watt amp IF you like a descent amount of bass. I would go with a sealed box for your subs>upgrade your factory deck with a good quality one with 3 sets of RCAs and I would run 4 guage wire and high quality RCA jacks to your amps, oh yea ditch the spare and replace it with a couple cans of fix-a-flat. I would also run an Electronic 3-way Crossover with a bass remote to your amps, and look for either a 600 watt 4ch or 800 watt 4ch amp for your highs. A two fuse block and a ground block should be part of your install as well. Let me know if you have any more questions about equipment ok. Here is a good site you can use as a reference to the Electronic end of your 12 volt system.
http://www.bcae1.com

I just checked out your ride on Car Domain> Those Big Body Caddy's like you have need at least two 12" subs and a nice 1000 watt amp IF you like a descent amount of bass. I would go with a sealed box for your subs>upgrade your factory deck with a good quality one with 3 sets of RCAs and I would run 4 guage wire and high quality RCA jacks to your amps, oh yea ditch the spare and replace it with a couple cans of fix-a-flat. I would also run an Electronic 3-way Crossover with a bass remote to your amps, and look for either a 600 watt 4ch or 800 watt 4ch amp for your highs. A two fuse block and a ground block should be part of your install as well. Let me know if you have any more questions about equipment ok. Here is a good site you can use as a reference to the Electronic end of your 12 volt system.
http://www.bcae1.com
What's up Big Mike, thanks alot man for your advice. I went to Best Buy just to see what kinds of equipment I would need and like you the sales guy said I would need at least 12" subs (I saw some Fosgates) I think the the Fosgate box it came in was sealed or maybe it was ported, I saw so many I can't remember. I saw a I saw a good $200-$250 dollar radio with 3 sets of RCA's which he, like you recommended. He said I would probably blow the front and rear speakers, so I saw a nice a pair of rear speakers running about $100.00 and a nice pair of front speakers running about $90.00 I think they were Kenwoods. He said that I should get a seperate amp for the speakers, saw a nice Kenwood one, then they had a wiring kit for about $140.00. I'm not to sure about getting rid of the spare, because I've noticed that my tire would become heavily shredded and a spare came in handy (especially when my car blew a tire on the freeway 8 am during 9/11 and by the time I had it fixed and drove back to my house the freeway was congested as folks drove quickly to their homes and I doubt they would stop to help a Black guy on the free-way :D ).

The subwoofer looks like this one (I don't know what 4 Ohms or 8 Ohms is or what is the difference between the two) http://http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1069302879271&skuId=6252459&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03081

But again thanks for your advice I will be printng this page and taking it with me before I decide what to purchase. Also thanks for the link to the site.

The subwoofer looks like this one (I don't know what 4 Ohms or 8 Ohms is or what is the difference between the two) http://http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1069302879271&skuId=6252459&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03081


Ohms are very important, fyi. An ohm is a measurement of resistance, so an 8 ohm sub is twice as hard for an amp to push power through compared with a 4 ohm, so an amp can only push half as much power through an 8 ohm as compared with a 4 ohm. So the lower the ohm rating, the easier an amp can push power through it, but amps get hotter as they push more power and this is why you don't see many amps that are stable at 1 ohm or lower.

Another point is that if you hook 2 4 ohm subs in serial (in a series), they will have an 8 ohm load. If you hook 2 4 ohm subs in paralell, they will have a 2 ohm load. This is useful if you have a mono amp that's stable to 2 ohms, and 2 4 ohm subs (which is a very common setup, in fact I have this setup) or something similar.

an amp can only push half as much power through an 8 ohm as compared with a 4 ohm.
I agree with you, your post mentiones the correct basics. However, the quoted statement is not accurate. It is not necessarily half as much power when you go from 4 to 8, as is not necessarily twice as much if you go from 4 to 2.

sealed is nice, its less hit or miss than ported, but ported boxes have lower bass extension. that 3db that you can gain is a big deal. it can mean a lot when you are looking to hit say a 35hz tone. the sealed box is real easy to make, takes up less space but for overall listening quality the ported is the way to go. you gotta know what you are doing a whole lot more with the ported setup. i personally like both sealed and ported. ive built hundreds of boxes both ways. some drivers require a ported box because of the xmax and air that they push from the back of the cone. in most cases if you are inexpierienced you should just go with sealed. usually .75- 1.25 cu. ft. is sufficient for a 10" or 12." anymore questions feel free to ask. peace

Thanx for your input, and the rest of you guy's too :) I am getting ready to do a New Install in my Caddy. I have the old system out and my trunk is once again Empty. This thread and everyones input has gave me a great idea. I can fit Four 12s in my trunk>no problem, but then i have a decent amount of wasted space from where the magnets of my 6x9s stop the forward sealed box. So i thought i would build a Ported box for a single 12" sub and Port it directly in through the rear seats arm rest. That single 12 will have it's own amp that would run most of the time. Then the two Sealed enclosures that hold the four 12s would have 2 amps going to them on switches, with the dvc subs wired at 2 ohms. This way i would have the best of both worlds and be able to eliminate massive amounts of continuous "Current Draw" on my Alt. I will have to take my 4 ga. wire out and run new 0 ga. wire to a digital 4 fuse Block to run the 4 amps which include the amp for my highs. I will be working with one big Square port for the single 12" sub. P E A C E

Sealed. No question about it. Nowadays you can buy a single sub (and the amp to match it) that handles more power and more efficiently than 4 subs just a few years ago. You can have both SPL and the SQ you can only get from a sealed enclosure.

Bandpass are great enclosures as well. Sure, they can make a lousy sub sound "ok", but they can also make a good sub sound superb. Only thing, the enclosure has to be perfectly built. By the way, some of the finest subs in the car audio industry are specifically designed for bandpass enclosures...

Ported... sure, if you prefer loudness over quality.
Hmmm Im Not sure i agree with you on a Bandpass can make a good sub sound "superb" I haven't heard ANY that impressed me including MTXs Almighty 9500 series sub in their ported enclosure for $700.00 :rolleyes:

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Ok I have an 85 Fleetwood D'Elegance and in my trunk my "spare sits in the back, so I have no choice but to sit my subs (when I get them) up close to the front.


My question is....

Should I get a "sealed" box and I want some hard thumpin bass, but I want clarity as well. I was thinking about getting 2 "12's". For those with the big caddy's what would be a good set-up, in my case?

ThanksYeah, the first car i started working on the system on was my 1980 fleetwood. however, learn from my experience and errors :p :

1) Don't buy subwoofers at best buy. Not only do they only stock a few names, but the prices are too high. to buy your equipment, either do it online, or go to your local family-owned car audio store. stay away from the big names (Best Buy, Circuit City, Car Toys, Tweeter, etc.)

2a) Our cadillacs trunks are sealed like tanks. between the trunk and the cab is about an inch of insulation, steel, and then the back seat, etc. if you just put subs in the trunk, you're hardly going to hear (or feel) anything in the cab, just vibrations from the quarter panels and the lid of the trunk and the license plate rattling.

2b) Consider dynamatting the shit out of your trunk. particularly the lid, and the sides... those are what suffer the most.

3) Don't worry about blowing your speakers just running them off the head unit. i did that on my 1980 for close to two years without incident. then i started driving it daily more often, and i got sick of the sound, so i replaced the stock paper-cone speakers with aftermarket. even if for a while you just run your speakers (aftermarket) off the headunit, you'll still notice a drastic change in sound, they get louder and MUCH clearer. adding an amp at a later stage will help even more, depending on which speakers you get.

You're going to have a hard time getting quality bass in the cab without some work... what i considered doing (i might still do it in the future) is put two 8" subs in the back deck (where the 6x9s are at the moment), that way you can still have your spare, etc. thing is, while you'll have amazing clarity, you're not going to be able to hit loud and deep like you want too. right now i have two 15s in the trunk, in seperate boxes, because i wanted to keep my spare. (i'm selling the 15s if you're interested. i'm going for clarity now, and while my 15s are pretty good compared to other 15s as far as clarity goes, it's still too much distorted bass for me, and i'm not going to build a better box. i want to start over)
http://www.swooh.com/lorenzo/cadillac/personalcaddy0019.jpg
The spare really screws things up, because it's in the worst possible place. And removing it gives you more room, but where the spare sits, the trunk "slopes" up, so you'd have to custom design the box, not just sit a square one.

what everyone has told you is right. don't get a 10" sub and put it in the trunk, you'll hear absolutely nothing. 12"+ (i recommend 15s) would be perfect. you may want to consider cutting a hole behind your back seat too. one of my friends has an 1987 fleetwood, and he has two 12s in the trunk (Pioneer). they hit hard, but one day he cut out about two square feet of metal from behind the back seat (a hole that leads right into the trunk) and the subs hit HAARRRDDDD! so depending on your setup, you may want to consider doing that. no one would know from the outside, unless if you put the back armrest down, then you'll just see a gaping hole ;)

don't get a 10" sub and put it in the trunk, you'll hear absolutely nothing. 12"+ (i recommend 15s) would be perfect.
Subwoofer size by itself does not make any difference in the amount of sound you can hear.
Explain me how a difference in diameter can make a difference in dB.
And don't say is a matter of personal taste. This is physics and audio basics.

I agree with you, your post mentiones the correct basics. However, the quoted statement is not accurate. It is not necessarily half as much power when you go from 4 to 8, as is not necessarily twice as much if you go from 4 to 2.

Generally it is. If an amp's rated at 400w at 4ohm, it will run 800w at 2ohm. The exceptions to this generalization are when an amp would overheat or maybe distort if it were pushing 800w at 2ohm, so the manufacturer keeps the power lower.

Subwoofer size by itself does not make any difference in the amount of sound you can hear.
Explain me how a difference in diameter can make a difference in dB.
And don't say is a matter of personal taste. This is physics and audio basics.
You're right, but keep in mind that majority of the time 15s are rated to handle more power than 10s.

Generally it is. If an amp's rated at 400w at 4ohm, it will run 800w at 2ohm. The exceptions to this generalization are when an amp would overheat or maybe distort if it were pushing 800w at 2ohm, so the manufacturer keeps the power lower.Exactly. Generally it is. Just to add another exception, regulation of the power supply also will modify the "doubling" rule.

You're right, but keep in mind that majority of the time 15s are rated to handle more power than 10s.I agree. I was just waiting for Mystical's reply before making myself clear. There is a couple of common misconceptions I would like to talk about. I hope you can cooperate in the discussion.

There is a couple of common misconceptions are*

Subwoofer size by itself does not make any difference in the amount of sound you can hear.
Explain me how a difference in diameter can make a difference in dB.
And don't say is a matter of personal taste. This is physics and audio basics.well obviously there's exceptions. if he wants to go ahead and a 10" W7, or other high-end: high-power-handling sub(s) in, then yeah *shrugs* but for the most part, for the cars we have, and for the majority of subs out there, i'd recommend something 12" or higher.

well obviously there's exceptions. if he wants to go ahead and a 10" W7, or other high-end: high-power-handling sub(s) in, then yeah *shrugs* but for the most part, for the cars we have, and for the majority of subs out there, i'd recommend something 12" or higher.
There is no need to go high-end. There are plenty of high power handling 10s for every budget. As a matter of fact, the maker of the subs in your pictures offers an 8" that handles as much power as a 12" from the same brand, and it is not one their expensive models.


Now, some basics:

First common misconception: bigger means louder.

How loud a woofer is depends on the power it handles, and how effective it is to use that power (efficiency). NOT on it's size. Bigger woofers were made to satisfy the need of properly reproduce lower frecuencies, which require more power to be produced.

If we follow the old bigger = more power handling concept, at a given power a 10" is more likely to sound louder than a 15".
In other words, a 100W amplifier will make a 120W 10" sound louder than a 160W 15".
In the other hand, let's say you have a 10" and a 15" that have the same power handling and efficiency. At a given power, they will be equally loud.
The frecuency range at which they are loud is what changes depending on their size.

With the power handling of today's subwoofers, more than ever the correct approach to recommend one is to know the kind of music they are intended for.

There is no need to go high-end. There are plenty of high power handling 10s for every budget. As a matter of fact, the maker of the subs in your pictures offers an 8" that handles as much power as a 12" from the same brand, and it is not one their expensive models.
ahh but you assumed that when i said "high-end" i meant "high-priced", but you'll notice after "high-end" i put a colon, and specified: high-power-handling. i never implied that only high priced subwoofers are high power handling. ;)

also, i'm not sure what you mean when you say the maker of my subs offers an 8" that handles as much power as a 12" from the same brand. i assume you're talking RMS...(and i'm pretty sure you are, because later in your above post you mentioned a "160W" and "120W" sub, which is their RMS wattage) in which case there's no 8" and 12" sub of the same brand in their lineup that shares the same rated RMS wattage.

ahh but you assumed that when i said "high-end" i meant "high-priced", but you'll notice after "high-end" i put a colon, and specified: high-power-handling. i never implied that only high priced subwoofers are high power handling. ;)

also, i'm not sure what you mean when you say the maker of my subs offers an 8" that handles as much power as a 12" from the same brand. i assume you're talking RMS...(and i'm pretty sure you are, because later in your above post you mentioned a "160W" and "120W" sub, which is their RMS wattage) in which case there's no 8" and 12" sub of the same brand in their lineup that shares the same rated RMS wattage.
I agree with the high end stuff. Just added that there are cheap high power subs.
The 120 and 160W were fictional values.

You are right, the specific wattage is 125W RMS for the 8W3 V2 and 150W RMS for the 15W0. I was using the power chart as reference to point the similarity, but I should have added the specific values.;)

What about efficiency as topic for the other thread?
Later.

yeah, but that's also not quite a "beginner" topic... that should be covered a little later in the "FAQ" i think. :p


the specific wattage is 125W RMS for the 8W3 V2 and 150W RMS for the 15W0
yeah but those are completely different models of subs (even though they're made by the same manufacturer: JL Audio)... you can't really compare them ;)
Practically every subwoofer model (from all manufacturers) the bigger the cone size (i.e. 8, 10, 12, 15, 18, 24, etc.) the more power handling... simply because more power's needed to move the sub. like cars: a smaller car doesn't require a very big engine to move it, while a big car needs a bigger engine.

for once we seem to agree on something :D :D ;)

Of course you can compare them. Both share the same principles and purposes.
The intention of posting about the two of them is to reiterate about the importance of choosing a sub based on the kind of music you hear the most, power handling should be secondary to that.

the bigger the cone size (i.e. 8, 10, 12, 15, 18, 24, etc.) the more power handling... simply because more power's needed to move the sub. like cars: a smaller car doesn't require a very big engine to move it, while a big car needs a bigger engine.I agree in the fact that usually the bigger = more power handling. However, it is not because of size itself, it is because of the frecuencies they are intended for.
Now that is a great topic for the basics thread.:D

Of course you can compare them. Both share the same principles and purposes.

they're two completely different models of subs, with completely different designs... and meant for different purposes. so you really can't compare them by saying that an 8" of one model has ALMOST as much power handling as the 15" of another model...

However, it is not because of size itself, it is because of the frecuencies they are intended for.

the reason a bigger subwoofer usually has higher power-handling than a smaller sub is not because of the frequency it's designed for... it's because the larger the sub, the more power it requires to move. however (as you mentioned), it IS designed to hit lower frequencies (the larger subs i mean) but lower frequencies aren't what makes it require more power. moving the sub requires more power ,since it's big ;) :)

they're two completely different models of subs, with completely different designs... and meant for different purposes. so you really can't compare them by saying that an 8" of one model has ALMOST as much power handling as the 15" of another model...
That is the same as saying 2 subs from 2 different brands made with different technology and design can't be compared. In this case, other than the number of voice coils and increased power handling, there are not drastical differences between the W0 and the W3 series.

They share the same purpose: bass reproduction. They have different applications, based on the frecuencies they were designed for.

The only reason to mention them was to point that a small and a huge sub can handle the same amount of power, and nothing else. ;)


the reason a bigger subwoofer usually has higher power-handling than a smaller sub is not because of the frequency it's designed for... it's because the larger the sub, the more power it requires to move. however (as you mentioned), it IS designed to hit lower frequencies (the larger subs i mean) but lower frequencies aren't what makes it require more power. moving the sub requires more power ,since it's big ;) :)
Let me put it this way: There are 15s rated at 125W RMS, there are 8s rated at 125W RMS. That means that both diameters require 125W RMS to fully accomplish their purpose. However, an 8" will not be able to reproduce the same frecuencies the 15" does.
Lower frecuencies move greater volumes of air. That is what requires the power, not the size for itself. Size makes possible to move those amounts of air in a better way.
If size was the determinant factor for power handing, there would be no point in making an 8" rated at 50 RMS and another rated at 125, or a 15 rated at 150 and another rated at 1000.
More RMS will only make a sub to reproduce the same frecuencies louder than another of the same size with less power handling, assuming they are similar in all other aspects.

That is the same as saying 2 subs from 2 different brands made with different technology and design can't be compared. In this case, other than the number of voice coils and increased power handling, there are not drastical differences between the W0 and the W3 series.

They share the same purpose: bass reproduction. They have different applications, based on the frecuencies they were designed for.

The only reason to mention them was to point that a small and a huge sub can handle the same amount of power, and nothing else. ;)

but i thought what you were saying originally was that JL Audio has a model (of sub) where the 8" has the same power handling as the 12" :)

and yes, a small sub and a large sub can handle the same amount of power, but never the small sub and the large sub of the same line, for instance the W3... sure there exist 8s and 15s of different models with the same RMS, but never, EVER of the same line...


Let me put it this way: There are 15s rated at 125W RMS, there are 8s rated at 125W RMS. That means that both diameters require 125W RMS to fully accomplish their purpose.
but you will never find the same MODEL subwoofer (with the same technology, etc.) with the 8" and the 15" with the same power handling... or at least i have never seen one... sure with different models the power handling changes, but as a whole, if you take the 8" and the 15" of the line of subs, be it the L7, W0, W3V2, whatever model it is, the 8" will always handle less power than the 15"... what are we arguing about? we both agree on the same thing :p


However, an 8" will not be able to reproduce the same frecuencies the 15" does.
right. that's been established...

Lower frecuencies move greater volumes of air. That is what requires the power, not the size for itself. Size makes possible to move those amounts of air in a better way.
it's all the same thing!
Large Sub = Lower Frequencies = Larger Cone = More Power to move the cone.
you see? they're all connected. but the reason a large sub requires more power is because it's got a large cone. just like a large lightbulb requires more power than a small lightbulb, and a large car requires a larger engine to move than a small car. we agree on this, we're just mentioning different aspects

If size was the determinant factor for power handing, there would be no point in making an 8" rated at 50 RMS and another rated at 125, or a 15 rated at 150 and another rated at 1000.
but they're different models... you can't expect the same from the W0 range as you would from RE's XXX range... they're using different technology, etc. so OBVIOUSLY not every 8" sub in the world's going to have the exact same power handling

More RMS will only make a sub to reproduce the same frecuencies louder than another of the same size with less power handling, assuming they are similar in all other aspects.
what are we arguing about? :D :)

Hello ALL,
I am in the process of replacing my entire system in my Cadillac, including changing out the old 4 guage wire and adding O guage for power wire, new head unit, class D amps and 2 ohm DVC subs along with some new processors. I also be replacing the old Sealed enclosure with a new one that will also be Sealed.
We have just purchased a 93' Lincoln Town car that we will be building two separate Ported enclosures to hold two 15" Subwoofers, the goal for this car will be SPL but it's such a large car im not sure how loud it will be, I guess time will tell.
Anyone doing anything different to your cars/systems/enclosures?
Let me know.

P E A C E

I HAVE HAD BOTH PORTED AND SEALED IN MY 97 DEVILLE AND IN MY 99 DE'ELEGANCE. I USED THE SAME AMP FOR BOTH AND WHILE THE PORTED HAD MORE LOW END BOOM, THE SEALED HAD A BETTER SOUND. THERE IS ONE PROBLEM WITH PORTED AND BANDPASS. WHEN THE SPEAKER GETS INTO DISTRESS (ITS ABOUT TO DIE) YOU CANNOT HEAR IT UNTILL ITS TOO LATE. THE CHOICE DEPENDS ON MANY FACTORS. ME I LIKE THE FACT THAT YOU CAN BUILD A SMALL SEALED BOX DONE TO SPECS AND USE A SUB THAT IS COMPATIBLE AND KEEP MOST OF YOUR TRUNK. I LIKE TO BOOM BUT THE WIFE LIKE TO TRAVEL AND SHOP!!! TRY GOING TO A AUDIO SHOP THAT WILL LET YOU TRY BOTH TYPES IN YOUR TRUNK. GOOD LUCK :drinker :drinker

soundadvantage... i sold my screen and recently bought 3 12" JL W0s in a big sealed box. they are all in the same space, but i'm going to build a box where they have thier own enclosures. I'm powering them with the JL 250.1 monoblock. it's nice, but i wish i could have gotten the 500.1. it was way too expensive tho. all this on the same old knuconcepts 4ga kit. it's okay, but not as loud as some stuff i've had. i need more amp. anyhow, that's what's new with my ride. sounds like you've got enough to keep you busy thru the winter. let me know how that lincoln goes... i'm curious to see how you read at the polls.. it's such a big car and all.

soundadvantage... i sold my screen and recently bought 3 12" JL W0s in a big sealed box. they are all in the same space, but i'm going to build a box where they have thier own enclosures. I'm powering them with the JL 250.1 monoblock. it's nice, but i wish i could have gotten the 500.1. it was way too expensive tho. all this on the same old knuconcepts 4ga kit. it's okay, but not as loud as some stuff i've had. i need more amp. anyhow, that's what's new with my ride. sounds like you've got enough to keep you busy thru the winter. let me know how that lincoln goes... i'm curious to see how you read at the polls.. it's such a big car and all.

Hey Lac... Trying to drive all three subs sharing the same air space isn't the hot set up, but once you build a new enclosure so that each sub has it's own air space then your system should sound alot better.
You could find a deal on another 250.1 and run two amps, what are the WOs RMS rating? Are they single 4 ohm coils?

Mike

Nice thread here. Just got myself the Audiobahn ABP103T.. triple 10" sub bandpass box, yes i'm sure there's better but I got a good deal and its good enough for now. Its rated at 800 RMS and wired at 4 Ohm mono, the question is.. how big of an amp do I need? I dont want to anything that will overkill these speakers because who knows if that 800 is already an inflated number and I dont want anything to blow on me. Any suggestions appreciated!

What I have heard is that audiobahn is pretty fair when rating their subs, and they can take serious power. However, you will get practically the same volume with an amp a little less powerful than 800. Just make sure to use RMS values when matching.

Thanks D148LO for the info, I'm gonna look around for maybe a 600 RMS mono amp but what company do you guys think I should go for? Also, from what i'm reading most of these amps show their power @ 2 Ohms and since mines wired @ 4 ohms how will that affect the performance. Please excuse my ignorance in the matter!

No problem. 600 Watts RMS sounds OK. Look for the RMS @ 4 ohms, since the difference between a 2 and a 4 ohm output varies greatly from amp to amp.
How much do you want to spend?
Take a look at this:

750 RMS @ 4 ohms. I personally recommend MTX as a great bang for the buck. MTX amps truly perform as good as others twice their price.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/MTX1501D

Or this one, 600 RMS @ 4 ohms. Autotek also works very well:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=13926

Also look for the voltage rating. If they say an amp delivers 100 W @ 14.4 V, then it's output in real world applications (lower voltage) will be lower, too.

Do some research, and we''ll comment on your choices.

D148L0

Diablo, How about Sparkomatic? I have heard that they have the best audio components out there.





Just kidding. Do you remember that crap?

Sparkomatic??? Man, I don't even recall that one...

2b) Consider dynamatting the shit out of your trunk. particularly the lid, and the sides... those are what suffer the most.



What is "dynamatting my trunk"?

What is "dynamatting my trunk"?
Dynamat ( http://www.dynamat.com/ ) is a brand of products made to improve the acoustic conditions in car enviroment, mostly by reducing resonance and vibration. They have different products for different applications.
When applying that kind of stuff to your car, even if it's from another brand, most people say they are "dynamating" it.