: SRT-8 Challenger = failure



Blackout
05-02-08, 01:08 AM
:gg:


0-60 mph: 4.9 seconds
mile: 13.7 seconds
0-100-0 mph: under 17 seconds
60-0 mph: 110 feet

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/30/autoline-on-autoblog-with-john-mcelroy-driving-the-dodge-challe/

Highline Cady
05-02-08, 01:25 AM
I would have thought it would have been faster. I was at the track and watched a bone stock SRT-8 Charger running 13.6's all day long. Would have thought that the Challenger would be lighter, therefore faster. Oh well, I'm sure the aftermarket companies are happy.

AlBundy
05-02-08, 01:28 AM
Maybe they're trying to compete with the Shelby to see who has the most pounds.

AMGoff
05-02-08, 02:01 AM
Ummm.... Forgive me for possibly being ignorant here, but for a car that weighs over 2-tons (4140lbs to be exact and for comparisons sake, the Charger actually weighs less @ 3820lbs), those performance figures don't look all too shabby. In fact, they look pretty darn good.

Sometimes I think some people forget that this is a BIG car.

But then again, I can't really imagine that anyone who goes "ga-ga" over the new GTR would be all that impressed by the Challenger.

All I know is... Had I enough expendable dough to put gas in it after the purchase, I'd have one of these bad-boys in my garage ASAP.

Blackout
05-02-08, 09:06 AM
Ummm.... Forgive me for possibly being ignorant here, but for a car that weighs over 2-tons (4140lbs to be exact and for comparisons sake, the Charger actually weighs less @ 3820lbs), those performance figures don't look all too shabby. In fact, they look pretty darn good.

Sometimes I think some people forget that this is a BIG car.

But then again, I can't really imagine that anyone who goes "ga-ga" over the new GTR would be all that impressed by the Challenger.

All I know is... Had I enough expendable dough to put gas in it after the purchase, I'd have one of these bad-boys in my garage ASAP.

Please dude. Your just coming off as arrogant. For as much hype that this car has had over the years those numbers are just ridiculous. It's the slowest SRT-8 model and the SRT-4 Caliber would give it a run for it's money. The SRT-8 300C weighs over 4000 lbs, the SRT-8 Charger weighs over 4100 lbs and those are full sized sedans that are still beating the SRT-8 Challenger. Hell the SRT-6 Crossfire would beat it up!

gothicaleigh
05-02-08, 09:33 AM
SRT-8 Challenger = failure

No surprise here.



http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/oosa_hagar/Misc/srt8-fail.jpg

LS1Mike
05-02-08, 09:35 AM
I don't see MPH at the end of the 1/4 mile or 60 foot time, so I will reserve judgement, could be a bad driver.

dkozloski
05-02-08, 09:45 AM
A V8 STS runs the quarter in the mid 13's if you know how to drive. There's a timing slip posted in the late STS forum to prove it.

Brizzal
05-02-08, 09:49 AM
srt-8 is still sexy... lol :)

LS1Mike
05-02-08, 10:48 AM
Here is something to ponder
These times are all from Motor Trend.

03 Cobra 13.5
98 Camaro SS 13.7
00 WS6 13.6
04 CTS-V 13.6
01 Z06 13.0
These are all 6 speed cars.
My 00 WS6 ran 13.17 bone stock in 90 degree weather, poor DA, 2.1 60 foot on Eagle F1s.

We know these cars are all faster with just a normal driver. My Guess is you are going to see this thing hit Low 13's high 12 after some folks get some seat time.
One test of 13.70 does not a bad car make.

Katshot
05-02-08, 10:55 AM
Failure? Hardly. Dodge already has all of this year's production run sold, and a pretty good number that will most likely hold-over 'til next year.
As for the car's performance, it's NOT supposed to be a drag-car. The car is supposed to be a unique blend of comfort and muscle-car performance, and from what I've read so far, Mopar nailed the target. Auto-Blog didn't offer much to go on, so I'll reserve judgment until I see some REAL data. What they DID offer is fairly good though. A 4100lb. car with an automatic and open diff. managing those acceleration numbers aren't too bad, and the 0-100-0 and 60-0 stopping distances are nothing short of amazing (especially for a 4100lb. car). Next year, the car will have a manual trans, locking diff., and 3.73 final ratio. PLUS, they are supposed to be putting together a "Track-Pac" which is going to more narrowly focus on drag race performance.
I think characterizing the car as a "failure" is ridiculous.

Blackout
05-02-08, 11:28 AM
This is more like it http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=125968?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1

watch the video at the top. They got a 13.2 out of the SRT-8

illumina
05-02-08, 11:45 AM
Yeah, didn't Autoblog run a 2003 E55 AMG in the 13's when some publications got what, a 12.39??

I like this product.

Brizzal
05-02-08, 11:48 AM
i wouldnt mind getting the SE version 250hp....

urbanski
05-02-08, 11:58 AM
lol @ father/son debate

lawfive
05-02-08, 12:23 PM
Please dude. Your just coming off as arrogant.
Well, I agree that SOMEBODY is...

I like the new Challenger. But I've decided I'm too old to carry off driving one. :annoyed:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-02-08, 12:35 PM
I love the new Challenger. I don't care if it's the slowest SRT vehicle out there, it's just so damn sexy!

Agreed though, it should be faster.....

Rolex
05-02-08, 12:42 PM
No surprise here.



http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/oosa_hagar/Misc/srt8-fail.jpg

:haha:

I wonder what production fit and finish will look like? :ill:

The Tony Show
05-02-08, 12:52 PM
lol @ father/son debate

:yeah:

Okay, I just read the article and I didn't see any "failure" there- the guy loved the car. I detest Chrysler/Dodge interiors, but the car looks badass. Good drive + good looks = good job (in my book anyway).

The only downside is that if you have even a passing interest in it then you'd better buy one now before Cerberus axes it.

Katshot
05-02-08, 01:42 PM
:yeah:

Okay, I just read the article and I didn't see any "failure" there- the guy loved the car. I detest Chrysler/Dodge interiors, but the car looks badass. Good drive + good looks = good job (in my book anyway).

The only downside is that if you have even a passing interest in it then you'd better buy one now before Cerberus axes it.

Doubt that will happen. Too much pre-production costs to make up.

Katshot
05-02-08, 01:42 PM
lol @ father/son debate

Another value-added comment. :rolleyes:

urbanski
05-02-08, 01:48 PM
Another value-added comment. :rolleyes:

pot kettle

gothicaleigh
05-02-08, 02:36 PM
:haha:
I wonder what production fit and finish will look like? :ill:

That panel gap is intentional. If there was nowhere for the Fail to seep out, the car would explode.

The Tony Show
05-02-08, 02:37 PM
rofl @ Caleigh.

LS1Mike
05-02-08, 02:57 PM
That panel gap is intentional. If there was nowhere for the Fail to seep out, the car would explode.

I don't think the car is a complete failure, but that right there is some funny shit.

Blackout
05-02-08, 03:56 PM
That panel gap is intentional. If there was nowhere for the Fail to seep out, the car would explode.

I couldn't have said it any better! lol but I appreciate what the car is and all but for as much hype that has been surrounding this car since day one I expected MUCH more then what it is offering as of right now. Hopefully once the manual transmission comes out they tweak a couple of things.

AlBundy
05-02-08, 04:13 PM
They can't make it too fast. The aftermartket mod companies need to make their money.

dkozloski
05-02-08, 05:03 PM
All it takes for an automobile sensation is some flashy pictures and some hype. At that point imaginations take over, the hyperbole develops, and the rumors take off. The BS stories plus the Kool-Ade drinkers for the particular brand go to work and finish the job.

Rolex
05-02-08, 05:51 PM
That panel gap is intentional. If there was nowhere for the Fail to seep out, the car would explode.

:histeric::histeric:

thebigjimsho
05-02-08, 07:08 PM
srt-8 is still sexy... lol :)No, sexy and somewhat quick is the Maserati GranTurismo. That's a car that you don't care how fast it goes. Another fat-ass SRT product with no stick and looks like a rotten pumpkin? No thanks.

DopeStar 156
05-02-08, 08:09 PM
Personally the car does nothing for me, but I guess sales will be the real judge.....

Katshot
05-02-08, 08:28 PM
All it takes for an automobile sensation is some flashy pictures and some hype. At that point imaginations take over, the hyperbole develops, and the rumors take off. The BS stories plus the Kool-Ade drinkers for the particular brand go to work and finish the job.

Well said. Just look at the '09 CTS-V forum if you have any doubts about it.

Katshot
05-02-08, 08:35 PM
No, sexy and somewhat quick is the Maserati GranTurismo. That's a car that you don't care how fast it goes. Another fat-ass SRT product with no stick and looks like a rotten pumpkin? No thanks.

Obviously, you have no personal memories of the old muscle car days. That, or you're simply an anti-Mopar fan. Whichever it is, I think it's ridiculous to even mention a Challenger and a Maserati in the same sentence. What's the point?
Bottom line, the car is going to sell well to it's intended market and then some. If you choose to call that a failure...so be it. IMO, I'd like it better with a stick (preferably a pistol-grip, 5-speed) and 3.73 locking gears. Next year.

thebigjimsho
05-02-08, 08:35 PM
Well said. Just look at the '09 CTS-V forum if you have any doubts about it.Nope, once you got banned, everything was fine.

AlBundy
05-02-08, 08:47 PM
Nope, once you got banned, everything was fine.
:histeric:

AMGoff
05-02-08, 09:16 PM
Sorry "dude," if I came across as arrogant it's only because I'd say that starting a thread to say that the Challenger = failure borders on ignorant. Yes... there has been a lot of hype around this car, but much of it didn't necessarily have anything to do with blistering performance. We knew the platform, we knew the engines, so we all had a general idea of what this car would do in that respect. A lot of the hype came from the fact that an iconic car was coming back to motor-dom.

Maybe I'm just showing my age here, but the fact remains that for a 4100+ pound car with an automatic, those times aren't horrible and they certainly don't equate to being a "failure." That's all wasn't even mentioning what others had, which is these times were from AB as well... and I think it's fair to say that their writers aren't exactly world-class drivers.

So feel free to call me whatever names you like, but sticks and stones....

DILLIGAF
05-02-08, 09:32 PM
I agree with the fail statement here.Too much hype,not enough performance.High school parking lots will be full of them.BTW,the Camaro doesn't do it for me either.Don't get me started on what kind of idiot would pay 15,000 over sticker for one of those boats.

The Tony Show
05-02-08, 09:35 PM
Sorry "dude," if I came across as arrogant it's only because I'd say that starting a thread to say that the Challenger = failure borders on ignorant. Yes... there has been a lot of hype around this car, but much of it didn't necessarily have anything to do with blistering performance. We knew the platform, we knew the engines, so we all had a general idea of what this car would do in that respect. A lot of the hype came from the fact that an iconic car was coming back to motor-dom.

Maybe I'm just showing my age here, but the fact remains that for a 4100+ pound car with an automatic, those times aren't horrible and they certainly don't equate to being a "failure." That's all wasn't even mentioning what others had, which is these times were from AB as well... and I think it's fair to say that their writers aren't exactly world-class drivers.

So feel free to call me whatever names you like, but sticks and stones....

You're missing the whole point of this thread- every car that is released in the next 12 months that doesn't have the initials G, T and R (in that order) is a "failure".

It's in the Declaration of Independence- look it up.

DILLIGAF
05-02-08, 09:45 PM
GTR!Those are awesome!Every pint size tuner twerp will have one.

Katshot
05-03-08, 06:44 AM
GTR!Those are awesome!Every pint size tuner twerp will have one.

Between this and your last post, you seem to think there's a lot of rich kids out there.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-03-08, 09:47 AM
What if a car was an RGT or a TGR? Would it be an awesome car too? Or does it have to be GT-R?

concorso
05-03-08, 09:00 PM
Nope, once you got banned, everything was fine.This actually happened? LOL-squared!

Lord Cadillac
05-04-08, 01:53 AM
The bad: I've seen some unnecessary comments in this discussion.
The good: I appreciate everyone keeping their composure.

Please keep it civil. Attack ideas, not people. If you don't like a discussion, you don't have to participate in it. Do not post responses that are unnecessary or off-topic. I'm very surprised at how much babysitting I still need to do.

AlBundy
05-04-08, 02:04 AM
It comes with the crown.:rolleyes:

gary88
05-04-08, 02:34 AM
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10074/failboat.gif

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-04-08, 01:46 PM
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u224/SaneMadness/Failboat.jpg

dkozloski
05-04-08, 02:29 PM
All the reconstituted muscle cars are very similar to the newer VW water cooled "Bug". They superficially resemble the original but have a completely different nature that totally confounds the idea that you are going to have anywhere near the same driving and owning experience. It's almost like believing that there really is something behind the false front of an old western town; pure fanatsy.

concorso
05-04-08, 03:50 PM
New muscle cars don't offer the same driving experience? And thats a bad thing?
My dad's 440ci Challenger turns like a rowboat and stops like a wet noodle on a waterslide. I'm glad the newer muscle cars don't share the same driving experience...

And until A&W's are the cool spot to hang out at again, and fuel is back at 30 cents/gal, I doubt we'll ever get the same owning experience again... :)

dkozloski
05-04-08, 03:58 PM
The local A&W reopened this spring with carhops and all. As the wife and I drove by we marveled at the crowd there. Always good food and good root beer in a frosty mug. The made from scratch onion rings are particularly tasty.

dkozloski
05-04-08, 04:06 PM
New muscle cars don't offer the same driving experience? And thats a bad thing?
My dad's 440ci Challenger turns like a rowboat and stops like a wet noodle on a waterslide. I'm glad the newer muscle cars don't share the same driving experience...

And until A&W's are the cool spot to hang out at again, and fuel is back at 30 cents/gal, I doubt we'll ever get the same owning experience again... :)
My SS396 Chevelle El Camino with Cerametallic brake shoes, a Pontiac GTO rear swaybar, American Racing 15" wheels and Goodyear Sportcar 200 tires ran the quarter in the low 13s and handled and stopped well as soon as the brakes warmed up. It was a very nice driving experience.

thebigjimsho
05-04-08, 09:52 PM
The local A&W reopened this spring with carhops and all. As the wife and I drove by we marveled at the crowd there. Always good food and good root beer in a frosty mug. The made from scratch onion rings are particularly tasty.There are a few A&Ws in the Northeast. When I can, I get a frosty mug. In between, I just buy it at the store...

A&W FTW!

Destroyer
05-04-08, 11:01 PM
I dont understand how this car could be called a failure. Its better in every respect to the new Bullit Mustang. I think its sex on wheels, I love it!. I'm a sucker for old Mopars and even though this aint old, its probably the best retro that has been made!. ;)

AlBundy
05-05-08, 12:00 AM
I dont understand how this car could be called a failure. Its better in every respect to the new Bullit Mustang. I think its sex on wheels, I love it!. I'm a sucker for old Mopars and even though this aint old, its probably the best retro that has been made!. ;)

so therefore it will be waiting on what Ford has to throw at it with the new mustangs in the future. It shouldn't be compared to the Ford but to the up and comming muscle cars. You know Ford has already come up with a mustang/Bullit/Cobra to compete with this car. Ford has already made alot of money in this line-up. Now it has competition. Let's see it run against the new Camaro or up to date coupes:eek::alchi:.

Destroyer
05-05-08, 06:57 AM
so therefore it will be waiting on what Ford has to throw at it with the new mustangs in the future. It shouldn't be compared to the Ford but to the up and comming muscle cars. You know Ford has already come up with a mustang/Bullit/Cobra to compete with this car. Ford has already made alot of money in this line-up. Now it has competition. Let's see it run against the new Camaro or up to date coupes:eek::alchi:.Yeah I know but I just saw the comparison test someone posted up of the Bullit vs Challenger and was commenting in reference to it. Hell if I was buying new I'd pay an extra $5k for the Challenger over the Bullit. Ford will need to step it up.

AlBundy
05-05-08, 10:50 AM
I'd pay an extra $5k for the Challenger over the Bullit.

:yeah::thumbsup:

Blackout
05-05-08, 11:09 AM
Yeah I know but I just saw the comparison test someone posted up of the Bullit vs Challenger and was commenting in reference to it. Hell if I was buying new I'd pay an extra $5k for the Challenger over the Bullit. Ford will need to step it up.

Well you also have to remember that when Ford did the redesign on the Mustang back in 2005, there was no competition in the market so they really didn't need to push themselves to make a super power car. Now that the Camaro and Challenger are right around the corner from being released Ford will have to play catch up with the newer, more powerful models coming from other makes.

gothicaleigh
05-05-08, 07:00 PM
I dont understand how this car could be called a failure. Its better in every respect to the new Bullit Mustang.

If the best car you can compare it to is the Mustang, it's a failure. Being a better car than the Mustang is like being the smartest kid on the short bus.

Also for the money, you can buy a 70's Challenger (as long as it's not an R/T of course; those are ridiculously expensive).
original cars > failboat remakes

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-05-08, 07:03 PM
Being a better car than the Mustang is like being the smartest kid on the short bus.


LOL!!!!!!!!!

Destroyer
05-05-08, 07:28 PM
If the best car you can compare it to is the Mustang, it's a failure. Being a better car than the Mustang is like being the smartest kid on the short bus.

Also for the money, you can buy a 70's Challenger (as long as it's not an R/T of course; those are ridiculously expensive).
original cars > failboat remakes
Its gonna get compared to Mustang and Camaro's. That is the competition for a Challenger just like it was when it came out. What would you compare it too?.

Old Mopars drove like crap, I know cause I've owned plenty including a '72 Challenger 340, '63 Polara 383, '66 Newport convertible, etc. It was fun, and it was cheap back in the 80's. To pay over $30k for a base(ish) model now and consider it as a daily driver would be dumb. Not good daily drivers and Mopars were not screwed together as well as the GM's or Fords of their day no matter what some crazy collector would pay for it.

concorso
05-05-08, 08:02 PM
Its gonna get compared to Mustang and Camaro's. That is the competition for a Challenger just like it was when it came out. What would you compare it too?. Paris Hiltons report card. It was full of failure.

I wonder if the Challenger will have as high a turnover rate as the 300/Charger/Magnum... Everyone I know who bought one returned them within 6 months. Just too uncomfortable to live with...

concorso
05-05-08, 08:05 PM
If the best car you can compare it to is the Mustang, it's a failure. Being a better car than the Mustang is like being the smartest kid on the short bus. hahahaha

thebigjimsho
05-05-08, 11:22 PM
If the best car you can compare it to is the Mustang, it's a failure. Being a better car than the Mustang is like being the smartest kid on the short bus.

Also for the money, you can buy a 70's Challenger (as long as it's not an R/T of course; those are ridiculously expensive).
original cars > failboat remakesHAHAHAHAHAHA POTD!!!


At least it didn't take Ford 4 years of talking and showing and failing before it's debut. Dodge still doesn't bolt together well...

AlBundy
05-05-08, 11:39 PM
Well let just see what it does against the Camaro and then well have a better discussion.....at least until the new Mustange comes out.

AMGoff
05-05-08, 11:44 PM
Well let just see what it does against the Camaro and then well have a better discussion.....at least until the new Mustange comes out.

Seriously... because all I see is a whole lot of sh!t talking about a car that hasn't really hit the streets yet.

AlBundy
05-05-08, 11:50 PM
Seriously... because all I see is a whole lot of sh!t talking about a car that hasn't really hit the streets yet.

Well that is what this thread is about. Shit talking about two or three cars that hasn't hit the streets. You also gave your shit to this thread so if you have more please contribute before you wipe.:alchi:

AMGoff
05-06-08, 01:06 PM
Well that is what this thread is about. Shit talking about two or three cars that hasn't hit the streets. You also gave your shit to this thread so if you have more please contribute before you wipe.:alchi:

If I did it's only because I prefer to smell my own shit rather than someone else's...

For the record... I haven't talked shit on any car on this thread, unless you count me saying that I couldn't imagine anyone who has gotten all ramped up over a much talked about Nissan being impressed by the Challenger.

Otherwise, I try to refrain from calling any car that hasn't really hit the streets yet a failure... there's a difference.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-06-08, 01:45 PM
Ya know what's funny? In the June '08 issue of Motor Trend, they got a 3.2 second 0-60 out of the GT-R. I don't care who you are, that's pretty ****ing impressive. They said the only cars they'd ever tested that were faster to sixty were the Enzo and Veyron.

Destroyer
05-06-08, 02:09 PM
If the best car you can compare it to is the Mustang, it's a failure. Being a better car than the Mustang is like being the smartest kid on the short bus.

You drive a '94 STS and you think the Mustangs are crappy?.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-06-08, 02:10 PM
Ah jeez.

urbanski
05-06-08, 02:11 PM
haha oh shit

gothicaleigh
05-06-08, 04:13 PM
You drive a '94 STS and you think the Mustangs are crappy?.

I suppose that's a pretty good summary. I do occasionally drive a '94 STS and yes, I do think Mustangs are poor automobiles. That they can also be considered to represent one of Ford's best efforts is rather sad.

Destroyer
05-06-08, 05:41 PM
I suppose that's a pretty good summary. I do occasionally drive a '94 STS and yes, I do think Mustangs are poor automobiles. That they can also be considered to represent one of Ford's best efforts is rather sad.
But, but, but.........they are reliable, fun and fast and are built at least as well as your Cadillac (if not better). Not to say thats good, its actually shameful for a Cadillac not be screwed together better than more sedate cars. Mustangs also have better resale value, especially the V8's. Dont have all the toys but reliablility goes a long way with me. Two should not be compared as they are way too different for comparison but since you think you are holier than thou for driving a 14 year old Cadillac with a bad reputation, what the hell right?.

AlBundy
05-06-08, 06:12 PM
:food-snacking:

MauiV
05-06-08, 06:43 PM
You know who else likes Challengers? And Camaros? And Mustangs? And Firebirds? Oh yeah, thats right.....

Ny8VqcEe7dw

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-06-08, 06:53 PM
People who religiously listen to The Georgia Sattelites?

urbanski
05-06-08, 07:16 PM
:food-snacking:

:food-snacking:

DILLIGAF
05-06-08, 08:11 PM
This will be a thread to dig up in a year.

Destroyer
05-06-08, 08:48 PM
You know who else likes Challengers? And Camaros? And Mustangs? And Firebirds? Oh yeah, thats right.....

Ny8VqcEe7dwI like Joe Dirt too!:yup:

Destroyer
05-06-08, 08:56 PM
People who religiously listen to The Georgia Sattelites?
..................and people that also owned MB S320's?. Food for thought. Oh yeah Chad, didn't post it up but I briefly had another S320 LWB. White/tan '96 model with 111k. Car was mint and I sold it way too cheap for a quick buck. When I say I briefly owned it, I mean briefly. Bought it at a public auction for only $3500 (wow). After the auction some guy that got there after I won the car asked me if I wanna sell it. I told him $6k, he gave me $5500 the next day. Eyeing a black S420 next, I'll make sure I post pics up if I get it. ;)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-06-08, 09:05 PM
Cool, lets see if your thread can get to be as long as mine was. :lildevil:

White/Tan would be the perfect color for a W140 for me.

LS1Mike
05-06-08, 09:05 PM
You know who else likes Challengers? And Camaros? And Mustangs? And Firebirds? Oh yeah, thats right.....

Ny8VqcEe7dw

Joe dirt is alright,

Also people who have had
A CTS, which compared to my WS6 or a Mustang the build quality was questionable for what you payed for.

Sometimes you guys are as goofy as I am with my GM thing. If you think anything Cadillac made before say 05 has a better build or reliability then an F-body or Mustang,
I am not even going to argue with you.
Typically F-Bodies and Mustangs take a beating a hell of a lot better than most cars.

LS1Mike
05-06-08, 09:14 PM
But, but, but.........they are reliable, fun and fast and are built at least as well as your Cadillac (if not better). Not to say thats good, its actually shameful for a Cadillac not be screwed together better than more sedate cars. Mustangs also have better resale value, especially the V8's. Dont have all the toys but reliablility goes a long way with me. Two should not be compared as they are way too different for comparison but since you think you are holier than thou for driving a 14 year old Cadillac with a bad reputation, what the hell right?.

Wow Destroyer, you are starting to sound like um someone I know.
Hmmm Me.:D

Destroyer
05-06-08, 09:14 PM
Cool, lets see if your thread can get to be as long as mine was. :lildevil:

White/Tan would be the perfect color for a W140 for me.
Nah, dont think it'll be as long as yours was. Just the normal amount of people telling ya a Caddy is better than the Benz and all that. White/tan was nice but the outside was white with gray bottom and I hate that but its easy to paint the bottom half.

Destroyer
05-06-08, 09:24 PM
Wow Destroyer, you are starting to sound like um someone I know.
Hmmm Me.:DWe've owned them all so we speak from experience. Anyone cruising around in a pre-05 Caddy thinking the car is superior to ANY other vechicle is fooling themselves. I HATE bashing Cadillacs but damn, they haven't built anything worthwhile since the last Brougham. I like and would own a CTS-V but the interior is more Cavalier than Mercedes. The newer stuff...........time will tell. I do value reliablility and Cadillacs SHOULD be the most reliable cars GM sells but they are amongst the worst. Fbody's and Mustangs aren't the best built cars but I swear they are NOT inferior to a Caddy. They should be inferior to a Caddy though.

gothicaleigh
05-06-08, 09:26 PM
What is this, Consumer Reports? Your argument for the Mustang has fallen back to reliability?

Some of the greatest cars in the world need to be maintenanced daily.

If a car has no other merits, why would you want it to last? Good riddance and all that...

LS1Mike
05-06-08, 09:32 PM
We've owned them all so we speak from experience. Anyone cruising around in a pre-05 Caddy thinking the car is superior to ANY other vechicle is fooling themselves. I HATE bashing Cadillacs but damn, they haven't built anything worthwhile since the last Brougham. I like and would own a CTS-V but the interior is more Cavalier than Mercedes. The newer stuff...........time will tell. I do value reliablility and Cadillacs SHOULD be the most reliable cars GM sells but they are amongst the worst. Fbody's and Mustangs aren't the best built cars but I swear they are NOT inferior to a Caddy. They should be inferior to a Caddy though.

Very well said and to Goth, no it isn't Consumer reports, that is why people here actually have Cadillacs and Some of us like Mustangs and Camaros.
What we expect when we get a "pony" car is reliabilty and the ability to make an ass ton of 1/4 mile passes and full throttle spurts without breaking.
I hate to bash GM but that is something a lot of Caddy motors except for the LS6 LS2 which gasp were based off the LS1 are not going to do.

MauiV
05-06-08, 09:44 PM
Joe dirt is alright,

Also people who have had
A CTS, which compared to my WS6 or a Mustang the build quality was questionable for what you payed for.

Sometimes you guys are as goofy as I am with my GM thing. If you think anything Cadillac made before say 05 has a better build or reliability then an F-body or Mustang,
I am not even going to argue with you.
Typically F-Bodies and Mustangs take a beating a hell of a lot better than most cars.


Actually its that I think the only current car more redneck than the aforementioned is a Monte Carlo. I think they come with a lifetime supply of Marlboro Reds and 2 Neckcar pit passes.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-06-08, 09:47 PM
HAHAHAH! Too true, too true.

Destroyer
05-06-08, 10:04 PM
What is this, Consumer Reports? Your argument for the Mustang has fallen back to reliability? No, it'll dust yours and pick up more girls too (if need be).


Some of the greatest cars in the world need to be maintenanced daily. Ah yes, the Countach, Ferrari F40 and the $1000 '94 STS...........quite the collection.


If a car has no other merits, why would you want it to last? Good riddance and all that...Dont know, why is your Caddy still on the road?. Now why dont you go ahead and tell us all why your car is better again?. Besides that it breaks as much as a Ferrari and all that.

Destroyer
05-06-08, 10:07 PM
Actually its that I think the only current car more redneck than the aforementioned is a Monte Carlo. I think they come with a lifetime supply of Marlboro Reds and 2 Neckcar pit passes.Being from KY makes you an expert on the subject!. J/K (sorta), my wife is from KY too.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-06-08, 10:12 PM
Why are we shitting on Cadillacs.......on a pro Cadillac website?

LS1Mike
05-06-08, 10:26 PM
Why are we shitting on Cadillacs.......on a pro Cadillac website?

Because, Cadillac is GM, parts are shared assembly processes are shared and I don't think some people here have have dropped a F-Body or Mustang into third at 70 with the Top down or T-tops off and passed a car that cost twice as much with little to no effort when they were trying to keep up.
Now that is a merit that a lot of cars don't have. Including some of the guys car right in here.
You can have your wood dash and Nav.
I will keep my 6 speed, t-tops tire shredding goodness!

Destroyer
05-06-08, 10:31 PM
Why are we shitting on Cadillacs.......on a pro Cadillac website?Hey, Cadillac shit on Cadillac, not me. I just call as it is. I still like some Cadillacs like the new CTS, the CTS V, Escalade and XLR. Hell thats more Caddy's I like that Lincolns. Just cause this is a Cadillac website doesn't mean we cant own and like cars other than Caddy's and it doesn't mean that we should like any shitbox JUST cause it wears a Caddy badge right?. This thread was about the new Challenger and then it became about how Mustangs suck and then how Mustangs and Camaro's suck and are for rednecks, blah blah. WTF?. C'mon Chad, get out of your car and go sit in a '94 STS. You wont be able to help but thinking "cheap" the whole time you are in it.

LS1Mike
05-06-08, 10:41 PM
Hey, Cadillac shit on Cadillac, not me. I just call as it is. I still like some Cadillacs like the new CTS, the CTS V, Escalade and XLR. Hell thats more Caddy's I like that Lincolns. Just cause this is a Cadillac website doesn't mean we cant own and like cars other than Caddy's and it doesn't mean that we should like any shitbox JUST cause it wears a Caddy badge right?. This thread was about the new Challenger and then it became about how Mustangs suck and then how Mustangs and Camaro's suck and are for rednecks, blah blah. WTF?. C'mon Chad, get out of your car and go sit in a '94 STS. You wont be able to help but thinking "cheap" the whole time you are in it.

Hell sit in an 03 CTS. I had one. That broke more stuff in the interior than any GM I have ever had. It's only merits? It was GM and Cadillac.
I will take a Mustang or F-body anyday.
I never asked anyone to like a Mustang or F-body, but you can't deny it does what it was built for. Move out realitivly good at a good price reliably.
There are a lot of cars out there that are asked to do that or try to do what was asked of the by Manufature/owner that just don't.
What do expect from base V8 Pony cars that stickered at 22,000 bucks?
The huge following they have and the Thumbs up I get when driving the WS6 must say something about their popularity.

Damn how many post does it take to get some Casino cash?

Destroyer
05-06-08, 10:42 PM
Because, Cadillac is GM, parts are shared assembly processes are shared and I don't think some people here have have dropped a F-Body or Mustang into third at 70 with the Top down or T-tops off and passed a car that cost twice as much with little to no effort when they were trying to keep up.
Now that is a merit that a lot of cars don't have. Including some of the guys car right in here.
You can have your wood dash and Nav.
I will keep my 6 speed, t-tops tire shredding goodness!
At the end of the day the V8 musclecars keep us young!. It aint about tranquility and smoothness. Its much more fun laying a 15ft patch of rubber shifting into 3rd gear!. Driving the '96 S320LWB I bought recently was nice but not fun. While driving it I thought to myself, which should I sell? The Cobra or the Benz?. Benz was gone just hours later. Damn fine cars the W140's are, beautiful craftmanship. I hope the S420 I may be getting is a bit quicker.

JimmyH
05-06-08, 11:06 PM
Ya know what's funny? In the June '08 issue of Motor Trend, they got a 3.2 second 0-60 out of the GT-R. I don't care who you are, that's pretty ****ing impressive. They said the only cars they'd ever tested that were faster to sixty were the Enzo and Veyron.

they also said it has ultra-short gearing. give the 09 V awd and a pair of 0.1 second shifts before 60mph, and it might do it in less than 3 seconds.




Cool, lets see if your thread can get to be as long as mine was.

epic thread

JimmyH
05-06-08, 11:07 PM
Bullit Mustang = :drool:

Destroyer
05-06-08, 11:10 PM
Bullit Mustang = :drool:
Doesn't hold a candle to a '94 STS though.:rolleyes:

Destroyer
05-06-08, 11:15 PM
The huge following they have and the Thumbs up I get when driving the WS6 must say something about their popularity.

I know where you are coming from. I cant remember the last time I got so much praise for a car. At gas stations, "nice Cobra man". At school when I pick up my daughter I've had several fathers comment on the car and at pre school when I pick up my son I've had several moms say there kids thought the car was so "cool". Totally unexpected but still cool.:cool2:

gothicaleigh
05-07-08, 12:37 AM
Doesn't hold a candle to a '94 STS though.:rolleyes:

You're really hung up on that Seville in my profile, aren't you?
It says 'Cadillac(s)' (and you seem to have missed that). I was honest and listed the ones I have owned.

But hey if you want to discuss the cars in our profiles, I'm game.


C'mon Chad, get out of your car and go sit in a '94 STS. You wont be able to help but thinking "cheap" the whole time you are in it.

Okay, I'm not going to pretend that Cadillac had great interiors anywhere throughout the 90's, but for christ man, you're defending this:

http://www.autobytel.com/images/carPics/TestDrv/Lyons/03Cobra/Cobra_interior1_500.jpg


Don't know, why is your Caddy still on the road?.
Proper maintenance? :noidea:

The 14 year old Seville has been <gasp> reliable with 120k on the odo and is great for the occasional long drive or trip. I would wager that it still churns out nearly all of it's advertised 295hp too, which I have heard is more than could be said of your Cobra brand new.


you think you are holier than thou for driving a 14 year old Cadillac with a bad reputation
I'll admit to the holier than thou bit, but not for that reason. :gothiwink:


epic thread

:thumbsup:

MauiV
05-07-08, 12:46 AM
Being from KY makes you an expert on the subject!. J/K (sorta), my wife is from KY too.


I see plenty of them toting mullets and meth stained teeth around.

I have also seen them in Cali, Jersey, Hawaii, Michigan, Texas and every other state I have ever visited and the vast majority of them share the same shallow end of the gene pool.

You dont see a lot of Audis and Lexus' in trailor parks and the reason is more than just price.

thebigjimsho
05-07-08, 06:38 AM
Dont have all the toys but reliablility goes a long way with me. Then why do you own a Mark VIII and an S-10?? egads...

Destroyer
05-07-08, 06:44 AM
Then why do you own a Mark VIII and an S-10?? egads...
Cause they are reliable?. I have owned the Mark VIII for 13 months now. Its up to 27k miles (16k original when I got it last year). It has given absolutely NO problems. Besides oil changes and plugs I have not touched one thing under the hood. Pretty reliable huh?. The S10 I really am not liking, it aint me. Its for sale and I'm getting a bigger truck. It is very reliable though.

Destroyer
05-07-08, 07:07 AM
You're really hung up on that Seville in my profile, aren't you?
It says 'Cadillac(s)' (and you seem to have missed that). I was honest and listed the ones I have owned.:Look at your sig again. Says current car is a '94 STS and the others are past Cadillacs.




Okay, I'm not going to pretend that Cadillac had great interiors anywhere throughout the 90's, but for christ man, you're defending this:

http://www.autobytel.com/images/carPics/TestDrv/Lyons/03Cobra/Cobra_interior1_500.jpg:No, not defending it. Its not a luxury car. I'm just saying it works and is not of lower quality than whats in your Caddy.





The 14 year old Seville has been <gasp> reliable with 120k on the odo and is great for the occasional long drive or trip. I would wager that it still churns out nearly all of it's advertised 295hp too, which I have heard is more than could be said of your Cobra brand new.:
True, the '99 Cobra had some issues and didn't make all the advertised hp. Luckily mine has the motor from an '04 Mach 1 and a few mods. Still, if you think your car could beat even a stock '99, you are wrong.



Where are we going with this?. Lets just have a hangdown and get this over with.

urbanski
05-07-08, 07:09 AM
No, it'll dust yours and pick up more girls too (if need be).

.

haha oh shit

thebigjimsho
05-07-08, 08:00 AM
Cause they are reliable?. I have owned the Mark VIII for 13 months now. Its up to 27k miles (16k original when I got it last year). It has given absolutely NO problems. Besides oil changes and plugs I have not touched one thing under the hood. Pretty reliable huh?. The S10 I really am not liking, it aint me. Its for sale and I'm getting a bigger truck. It is very reliable though.Mark VIIIs are NOT reliable. 27k total miles and 13 months is not a good way to gauge reliability. But at least you told us that was all that was on the car instead of lying to us. So, props to you...

Destroyer
05-07-08, 10:12 AM
Mark VIIIs are NOT reliable. 27k total miles and 13 months is not a good way to gauge reliability. But at least you told us that was all that was on the car instead of lying to us. So, props to you...
Before the '98 I had a '95 w/63k miles and that car ran great too with no probs. Biggest problems are the air suspension and the HID's. These are not big problems anymore though. For $350 I installed 4 conventional struts in my '95 and it rode just as nice. The factory HID's are expensive for the '97-'99 models but for $180 I bought after market bulbs and ballasts when I first got the '98. Now it uses more modern inexpensive HID bulbs. I sold the factory bulbs on Ebay and recouped the $180 I spent for the aftermaket bulb/ballast kit and made a handsome profit. Other known issues are the blend door for the AC/heat and on board electronic problems to a lesser extent. Problems I have not had yet. The drivetrain on the Mark is bulletproof unlike a Northstar. The '98 still rides on the air suspension and it works perfect, when it fails I'll install the coil spring conversion like I did on the '95. Simple enough. For a luxury car its been inexpensive to own so far but time will tell. I'm on Lincoln forums as well and there aren't any real major problems with the cars, you certainly aren't reading about headgaskets blowing like you do on the N* forums here. My assessments are based on my experiences. If the Mark or the Cobra give me a hard time I'll get rid of them and chalk them off as junk. I'll be a little more forgiving with the Cobra because I beat the piss out of it constantly. I hated Fords (except for Stangs which I have a long history with) but have to admit that these are solid cars if not high quality in materials used. I can pick the Mark apart just like I can pick apart a 90's Cadillac or newer CTS as far as corner cutting with the quality of interior plastics and quality of leather used and so forth. I feel the Fords are put together better, no squeeks or rattles from either. I'll simply say that American cars are not up to par when compared to their foreign counterparts in overall feel and quality but I still like them better.

concorso
05-07-08, 10:47 AM
'94 STS = pretentious failure
'99 Cobra 'vert = redneck failure
Challenger = FAILURE GAUGE MALFUNCTION...she's gonna blow!!!
Arguing for/against a brands reliability based on cars that aren't made anymore, or haven't been made yet = ?
Challenger = Failure

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 11:00 AM
For what it's worth, I always loved the 1992-97 STS, especially the 93-94's. They were incredibly fast, gorgeous to look at, fun to drive, comfortable, luxurious, and put together pretty well when compared to anything else from GM during that era.

gothicaleigh
05-07-08, 11:12 AM
Look at your sig again. Says current car is a '94 STS and the others are past Cadillacs.

The current Cadillac that I own is a '94 STS. No where does it say to list any other brand.


No, not defending it. Its not a luxury car. I'm just saying it works and is not of lower quality than whats in your Caddy.

Please. I'm having a hard time thinking of somewhere in the Seville that is made from hollow fischer-price plastic as is found in the Mustang's interior. The whole thing is molded from some foam-rubber material and zebrano wood, which while not exactly anything to brag about, is infinitely better than hard plastics.


True, the '99 Cobra had some issues and didn't make all the advertised hp. Luckily mine has the motor from an '04 Mach 1 and a few mods.

So the Civic is a great car because somewhere out there someone has transplanted an impressive engine into one. Failing in all other areas, the drivetrain is what the Mustang name rides upon. For them to then fail at that... well, you get the idea.


Still, if you think your car could beat even a stock '99, you are wrong.

It's not whether it will 'beat' it, but how well it does the job it was built for. A Miata is a terrible car if you just look at what can 'beat' it, but place it in the environment for which it was designed and it's amazing. The Cobra was purpose-built for straight line acceleration, yet failed to even do that well when compared to it's rivals. The Seville on the other hand was praised at it's debut and compared respectably to even it's German rivals.


Where are we going with this?. Lets just have a hangdown and get this over with.

Excellent.

Now back to the Challenger being a failure...











...because the best thing that can be said for it is that it may be better than a Mustang.

Dammit. I just can't help it. :canttalk:

Destroyer
05-07-08, 11:21 AM
The Seville on the other hand was praised at it's debut and compared respectably to even it's German rivals.


So was the Ford Taurus when it came out................................:canttalk:

hueterm
05-07-08, 11:24 AM
The SRT-8 doesn't really interest me, but if they made one w/the regular Hemi and w/o the racing/Dukes of Hazzard stripes, I'd consider one.

The best coupe to come out in a long time, it looks to me.

JimmyH
05-07-08, 11:59 AM
Cause they are reliable?. I have owned the Mark VIII for 13 months now. Its up to 27k miles (16k original when I got it last year). It has given absolutely NO problems. Besides oil changes and plugs I have not touched one thing under the hood. Pretty reliable huh?. The S10 I really am not liking, it aint me. Its for sale and I'm getting a bigger truck. It is very reliable though.


Mark VIIIs are NOT reliable. 27k total miles and 13 months is not a good way to gauge reliability. But at least you told us that was all that was on the car instead of lying to us. So, props to you...

My family had a MarkVIII. In 40000 miles, it was on its third engine, second transmission, 2nd (or maybe 3rd, dont remember) air suspension....

What got me most was when we jacked up the car to do an oil change, the doors WOULD NOT open when it was on the jack stands. Fine structural integrity eh?

The only car I am less fond of was my Grand Cherokee.

JimmyH
05-07-08, 12:06 PM
Oh yeah, and to quote Rob:




http://cooleywire.com/jimmyh/pics/funny/ford.jpg

hueterm
05-07-08, 12:36 PM
So was the Ford Taurus when it came out................................:canttalk:

As it should have been, when compared to the scary LTDs and Fairmonts it replaced...

Destroyer
05-07-08, 12:47 PM
What got me most was when we jacked up the car to do an oil change, the doors WOULD NOT open when it was on the jack stands. Fine structural integrity eh?

Car has very specific jack points. Odds are you didn't jack it from the proper location. Going through 2 or 3 motors by 40k miles is scary. :eek:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 12:50 PM
The SHO was the SHIT in the late '80s. There's no wrong in comparing that to a 5 series from it's time.

JimmyH
05-07-08, 12:59 PM
The SHO is definitely an anomaly in Ford's history. Even by today's standards the car is quick and handles well. At least pre-'96 anyway.

93DevilleUSMC
05-07-08, 01:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4qF21yVIKk

This car handles quite well for 4100 pounds, and still delivers blistering straight-line speeds. So it's not a GM? Big deal! I love Cadillacs, too, but this GM-only group think is pretty senseless and needs to be kicked out of the door.

This whole Mustang versus STS argument is ridiculous as well. The two cars are built for two different uses and two different markets. One is a luxury car built to have high-class features and appointments, and built for people who not only care about luxury interiors, but have the money to afford them. The other is a compact sports car built merely to have speed, tight handling, or at least the appearance of such if you have the V-6 version. It is built for those who may not have $55K to spend on a luxury vehicle, but maybe have $17K-$30K to spend on a sports vehicle.

Oh, I forgot, the above argument is about bashing anything not made by the Holy General Motors, not about common sense or coherence.

Matter of fact, this entire thread is about nothing more than bashing the newer Chrysler products, just because it isn't a new Camaro, GTO, or Corvette, or whatever car is the center of this week's GM-think.

gothicaleigh
05-07-08, 01:23 PM
Oh, I forgot, the above argument is about bashing anything not made by the Holy General Motors, not about common sense or coherence.

Well... yeah.

...and it's been fairly good entertainment for 12 pages now. :D

93DevilleUSMC
05-07-08, 01:29 PM
Well... yeah.

...and it's been fairly good entertainment for 12 pages now. :D

Only if you define arrogant, posturing bull crap as entertainment.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 01:30 PM
:eating popcorn and watching from a distance:

JimmyH
05-07-08, 01:32 PM
OMG, you mean folks are actually bashing the GT-R? This is the car that is going to save humanity from itself! Common people!!!

93DevilleUSMC
05-07-08, 01:32 PM
:eating popcorn and watching from a distance:

Watch and enjoy, I have a feeling that there's gonna be a firefight.

JimmyH
05-07-08, 01:33 PM
Only if you define arrogant, posturing bull crap as entertainment.

You just defined internet forums.

gothicaleigh
05-07-08, 01:33 PM
:eating popcorn and watching from a distance:

SRS BSNS.

93DevilleUSMC
05-07-08, 01:34 PM
OMG, you mean folks are actually bashing the GT-R? This is the car that is going to save humanity from itself! Common people!!!

That seems to be the attitude regarding anything with a Northstar around here.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 01:35 PM
OMG, you mean folks are actually bashing the GT-R? This is the car that is going to save humanity from itself! Common people!!!


Obviously these people haven't seen the GT-R with it's optional afterburners lit. :burn:

93DevilleUSMC
05-07-08, 01:37 PM
You just defined internet forums.

Unfortunately, you're right.

JimmyH
05-07-08, 01:37 PM
Obviously these people haven't seen the GT-R with it's optional afterburners lit. :burn:

The ones from Boeing, or Lockheed?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 01:38 PM
The ones from Boeing, or Lockheed?

Boeing. The ones from Lockheed are weaksauce.

JimmyH
05-07-08, 01:39 PM
That seems to be the attitude regarding anything with a Northstar around here.

Umm. Yeah. http://www.cadillacforums.com ( <---see it?)


There are some (I said some) Northstars out there that will take a beating like few other mass-produced engines on the market.

JimmyH
05-07-08, 01:40 PM
Boeing. The ones from Lockheed are weaksauce.

Oh yeah...gotchya :thumbsup:

93DevilleUSMC
05-07-08, 01:43 PM
The ones from Boeing, or Lockheed?

The ones from Sukhoi, of course.

93DevilleUSMC
05-07-08, 01:46 PM
Umm. Yeah. http://www.cadillacforums.com ( <---see it?)


There are some (I said some) Northstars out there that will take a beating like few other mass-produced engines on the market.

Nothing wrong about the Northstar, but it's like any other engine: it has it's excellent points, and it's flaws. I'm sure that when it came out, Chrysler and Ford diehards probably bashed it, too, regardless of it's superiority. The same thing is happening to the Challenger on this thread.

I don't oppose a particular brand; I oppose group think and blind dislike.

LS1Mike
05-07-08, 01:52 PM
I don't know I still like the Challenger. Any car with a 3.08ish rearend (can't remeber for sure) open diff and auto that runs low 13's is doing pretty good.
I still want to address the issue of what is fast.:thumbsup:

blunted
05-07-08, 02:31 PM
go sit in a '94 STS. You wont be able to help but thinking "cheap" the whole time you are in it.

You guys have some interesting taste.. I can't speak about the STS buy my 94 Eldo doesn't feel cheap at all. Everyone (guys & girls) that's gotten in it has complimented the interior saying how great the seats were and how they liked the layout...this was from BMW,Mercedes and Audi owners. The first thing that gets said is "this is a 94??" I have however sat in some mustangs that were very cheap plastic feeling and I couldn't wait to get out of.

I got so many compliments in that car that it was almost annoying.. people rolling up on me driving, tapping on my glass when stopped, following me, leaving notes on the car. This is in NYC mind you, where you see just about everything and anythin on a daily basis.

AMGoff
05-07-08, 02:45 PM
Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick...

What the hell has this thread devolved into? How about we just change the title to:

"Who Can Piss the Farthest?"

What exactly is the point of comparing Mustangs to STSs... or Mark VIIIs.. or a Benz... or an F-body... AND then a Taurus SHO... where the hell did a SHO come from??? The bottom line is that all of this is ridiculous... for whatever reason, everyone is trying to throw everything plus the kitchen sink into some argument that doesn't really exist.

Wake me up when this thread gets back to its original subject... because I'm still interested to know how or why a 2+ ton car with an automatic that can post a sub-5 second sprint to 60, that also hasn't really gotten onto the streets yet is a "failure?" Especially if we could get some reasons outside of a run of the mill case of Moparphobia...

gothicaleigh
05-07-08, 02:53 PM
Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick...
What the hell has this thread devolved into? How about we just change the title to:
"Who Can Piss the Farthest?"
What exactly is the point of comparing Mustangs to STSs... or Mark VIIIs.. or a Benz... or an F-body... AND then a Taurus SHO... where the hell did a SHO come from??? The bottom line is that all of this is ridiculous... for whatever reason, everyone is trying to throw everything plus the kitchen sink into some argument that doesn't really exist.

There was an S10 and a CTS in there somewhere too.

*EDIT* Oh and don't forget my Miata reference!


Wake me up when this thread gets back to its original subject... because I'm still interested to know how or why a 2+ ton car with an automatic that can post a sub-5 second sprint to 60, that also hasn't really gotten onto the streets yet is a "failure?" Especially if we could get some reasons outside of a run of the mill case of Moparphobia...

It's because Blackout said it was of course. :shifty

It's right there in the thread title. Cannae you no read? :p

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 03:07 PM
My girlfriend's late aunt Esther's 1981 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Brougham was better than all of the aforementioned cars for any reason you can think of.

Destroyer
05-07-08, 03:59 PM
My girlfriend's late aunt Esther's 1981 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Brougham was better than all of the aforementioned cars for any reason you can think of.
Damn, cant argue that one.:thumbsup:

Destroyer
05-07-08, 04:07 PM
Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick...

What the hell has this thread devolved into? How about we just change the title to:

"Who Can Piss the Farthest?"

What exactly is the point of comparing Mustangs to STSs... or Mark VIIIs.. or a Benz... or an F-body... AND then a Taurus SHO... where the hell did a SHO come from??? The bottom line is that all of this is ridiculous... for whatever reason, everyone is trying to throw everything plus the kitchen sink into some argument that doesn't really exist.

Wake me up when this thread gets back to its original subject... because I'm still interested to know how or why a 2+ ton car with an automatic that can post a sub-5 second sprint to 60, that also hasn't really gotten onto the streets yet is a "failure?" Especially if we could get some reasons outside of a run of the mill case of Moparphobia...


The Challenger is full of fail. That is the consensus of the owner of the '94 STS. The fact that it can and will be compared to a Mustang pretty much means that fail is just oozing from every orifice of the Challenger. Chrysler should have studied automobiles of the past to make a better Challenger. If they had, say a '94 STS to model the new Dodge Challenger after, it would have been full of WIN. :thumbsup:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 04:10 PM
No shit, that STS is awesome. Perhaps the only car ever to better the '81 Cutlass. :worship:

Oh yeah, and the W140. :worship: :D ;)

AlBundy
05-07-08, 04:16 PM
Wake me up when this thread gets back to its original subject...

I uuh like da Challenger anda ummm it will ahhh sell(WTF-up).:eek::alchi:

JimmyH
05-07-08, 04:41 PM
The bottom line is that all of this is ridiculous...

If you have a better idea for thread, then start one. In the meantime, what are internet forums for, if not for pointless debate?

MauiV
05-07-08, 04:47 PM
For the Pony Car and Hemi lovers. Nice Duster.

IyrcP5utXt4

Sweeeeet.

gothicaleigh
05-07-08, 04:52 PM
No shit, that STS is awesome. Perhaps the only car ever to better the '81 Cutlass. :worship:

Oh yeah, and the W140. :worship: :D ;)

I know it goes without mentioning (for there is certainly no other reason for you to have not done so), but I must include the chariot of the gods themselves, the BMW e30.

http://www.8thdaycreations.com/images/bfc/chariotofthegods.jpg

The Tony Show
05-07-08, 04:55 PM
This thread = Failure

(except Caleigh's posts, which are hilarious)

CIWS
05-07-08, 05:01 PM
:tsucks:

:topicsucks:

:ohthedrama:

gary88
05-07-08, 05:06 PM
a4qF21yVIKk

Cliffnotes - Softer suspension than SRT-8 Charger
Nice brakes
Great in a straight line (5.1/13.2)
Mild understeer
Average steering
Average handling

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 05:25 PM
I know it goes without mentioning (for there is certainly no other reason for you to have not done so), but I must include the chariot of the gods themselves, the BMW e30.

http://www.8thdaycreations.com/images/bfc/chariotofthegods.jpg


LOL! Awesome! Can you change that picture so it's a W140 instead of a E30?

AMGoff
05-07-08, 05:28 PM
Well, to begin with... a better idea for a thread would have just been - "Dodge Challenger - Initial Performance Numbers."

But instead, being titled as it was it set the tone for a bunch of unwarranted crap. Everyone is more than entitled to their opinions and internet forums are a means to air them out. An opinion is just that... an opinion, ie - " I like this... I don't like that." One of the reasons I like this forum and why I think there is such a large, active community of participants is because it always seemed the caliber of its respective members were a little higher than the norm and because of which, handled themselves better than one would find on other forums.

So forgive me for being just a little shocked on the rare occasions I find people here engaging in blatantly ignorant pissing matches.. I suppose it's just that I've always given the regular members who post on here a little more credit than they maybe deserve.

So what if a member with a '94 STS doesn't like Mustangs... so we're going to take it personally and start attacking those vintage Sevilles? Why... what's the point? Because we're pissed off because we might own a Mustang? So we'll then attack a vehicle simply because someone drives it? That's just as ridiculous as blasting the overall quality of all pre-2005 GM vehicle... despite the fact that GM had been steadily raising its build quality since the late 90s and that there were several early 2000s GM brands with long term build quality that rivaled if not bested even the Japanese.

Everyone puts their opinions out there... I'm certainly one of them and I make no effort to hide them. If I don't like something... I'll say I don't like it or I might just not say anything at all. However, even as opinionated as I might be... I know full well that I'm not in any position to make any sort of all-encompassing statement like, "X" car is a failure simply because I might not necessarily like the car nor it's manufacturer. I've never really liked Mustangs, but I wouldn't find some numbers and use that to somehow give my opinion any extra credit beyond what it is. I personally find Lincolns to be subpar entries in the luxury market, but I'm not going to insult someone for simply owning one. I would never buy a Japanese car, nor do I like the majority of Japanese manufacturers... but I'll give credit where credit is due. Take the GTR - I think it's an awesome piece of hardware... but I don't like it... So if one were to go back through all of the posts there's been about the GTR on here, they'd find I haven't really commented on it.

There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance... and I'd say generally, members of this forum tend to show enough decorum to stay behind that line. But once we start taking our opinions and using them as definitive, all-encompassing assertions - that's a different story. We all think whatever the hell we want... and that's fine as long as we remember that it's what we think and that such thoughts don't necessarily equate to reality.

RightTurn
05-07-08, 05:37 PM
Cliffnotes - Softer suspension than SRT-8 Charger
Nice brakes
Great in a straight line (5.1/13.2)
Mild understeer
Average steering
Average handling

Well it makes the right sounds. What else is there? :alchi:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 05:39 PM
Anyone who doesn't like the 1981 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme is a ****ing idiot. End of story. :D ;)

AlBundy
05-07-08, 05:43 PM
Well it makes the right sounds. What else is there? :alchi:

poop.:canttalk:

The Tony Show
05-07-08, 06:13 PM
Everything I need to know about the car industry I learned in the Cadillac Forums Lounge.

-The older a Mercedes or BMW is, the cooler it becomes
-The older an American car is, the crappier it becomes
-Nearly everyone thinks Mustangs are garbage, regardless of age
-God created the GT-R
-Afterwards, he pooped and made the Challenger
-Don't let your parrot drive your M3

hueterm
05-07-08, 06:20 PM
Especially the 4-door Cutlass Supreme/Malibu w/the sad vent window in the rear doors, but no way to lower the rear window.

That was a pathetic car...a friend of mine had the Malibu version (one reason why I'd never buy a Malibu to this day, just the name brings up bad memories). Cloth = burlap, non-split bench seat....terrible, just terrible.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 06:34 PM
Yes Tony, now you've got it. :yup:

LS1Mike
05-07-08, 06:41 PM
Everything I need to know about the car industry I learned in the Cadillac Forums Lounge.

-The older a Mercedes or BMW is, the cooler it becomes
-The older an American car is, the crappier it becomes
-Nearly everyone thinks Mustangs are garbage, regardless of age
-God created the GT-R
-Afterwards, he pooped and made the Challenger
-Don't let your parrot drive your M3

Ah very good Tony:thumbsup:
You forgot ANY F-body even if it stomps your ride into to the ground=MULLET.

LS1Mike
05-07-08, 06:43 PM
LOL! Awesome! Can you change that picture so it's a W140 instead of a E30?

Why not substitue for a $4000 dollar headgasket. I don't think I have ever seen one of those.:Poke:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 06:43 PM
A Northstar?

JimmyH
05-07-08, 06:46 PM
Everything I need to know about the car industry I learned in the Cadillac Forums Lounge.

-The older a Mercedes or BMW is, the cooler it becomes
-The older an American car is, the crappier it becomes
-Nearly everyone thinks Mustangs are garbage, regardless of age
-God created the GT-R
-Afterwards, he pooped and made the Challenger
-Don't let your parrot drive your M3

You forgot Northstar, the coolest, most hated engine in history.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 07:02 PM
I like it a lot, but not as much as I like the Buick 4.1L V6 used in the........'81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. :rockon:

urbanski
05-07-08, 07:07 PM
i had talapia for supper

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 07:10 PM
I hope this thread never ends.

http://nxtbot.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/energizer-bunny.jpg

LS1Mike
05-07-08, 07:11 PM
A Northstar?

I thought you had your replaced under warranty and intial estimates were $4000
Neverymind
2300 bucks. Plus a bunch of other crap.

AlBundy
05-07-08, 07:13 PM
i had talapia for supper

Good dish, good fish.:thumbsup:

CIWS
05-07-08, 07:30 PM
i had talapia for supper

Did she enjoy it ?





;)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-07-08, 07:31 PM
I thought you had your replaced under warranty and intial estimates were $4000
Neverymind
2300 bucks. Plus a bunch of other crap.

Yeah, good memory Mike! :)

LS1Mike
05-07-08, 07:33 PM
I remeber when the German shit breaks...You effectivley have a (insert what you paid for it) cup holder.

urbanski
05-07-08, 07:44 PM
Good dish, good fish.:thumbsup:
healthy++ too :)


Did she enjoy it ?





;)

:haha:

LS1Mike
05-07-08, 07:50 PM
18 pages...
Probablly should trash some imports as we managed to crap on everything else in this one.
one of my favorites an oldie (for the internet) but a goodie.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3460079998587907607&q=+domestic+vs+imports&ei=awshSM3oB4GEqwO95MjCAQ&hl=en

AlBundy
05-07-08, 08:02 PM
Somebody get this thread back on track so I could go wake the f__k up AMGoff.:D

gary88
05-07-08, 08:26 PM
Here's a GTR you can set your watch to, M3 GTR that is.

1q8ZNkhxT04&hl

LS1Mike
05-07-08, 08:32 PM
Score one for the mullet.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7668784108074090334&q=camaro+vs+skyline&ei=m0oiSJvYEJvWrgOIqOjFAQ&hl=en

gary88
05-07-08, 08:43 PM
Chalk up another loss for the skyline

_YPqho2LMcs

JimmyH
05-07-08, 09:06 PM
i had talapia for supper

two bites? or even three?

JimmyH
05-07-08, 09:07 PM
I betchya even Speed Racer won't be able to keep up the GT-R.

Destroyer
05-07-08, 10:26 PM
Well, to begin with... a better idea for a thread would have just been - "Dodge Challenger - Initial Performance Numbers."

But instead, being titled as it was it set the tone for a bunch of unwarranted crap. Everyone is more than entitled to their opinions and internet forums are a means to air them out. An opinion is just that... an opinion, ie - " I like this... I don't like that." One of the reasons I like this forum and why I think there is such a large, active community of participants is because it always seemed the caliber of its respective members were a little higher than the norm and because of which, handled themselves better than one would find on other forums.

So forgive me for being just a little shocked on the rare occasions I find people here engaging in blatantly ignorant pissing matches.. I suppose it's just that I've always given the regular members who post on here a little more credit than they maybe deserve.

So what if a member with a '94 STS doesn't like Mustangs... so we're going to take it personally and start attacking those vintage Sevilles? Why... what's the point? Because we're pissed off because we might own a Mustang? So we'll then attack a vehicle simply because someone drives it? That's just as ridiculous as blasting the overall quality of all pre-2005 GM vehicle... despite the fact that GM had been steadily raising its build quality since the late 90s and that there were several early 2000s GM brands with long term build quality that rivaled if not bested even the Japanese.

Everyone puts their opinions out there... I'm certainly one of them and I make no effort to hide them. If I don't like something... I'll say I don't like it or I might just not say anything at all. However, even as opinionated as I might be... I know full well that I'm not in any position to make any sort of all-encompassing statement like, "X" car is a failure simply because I might not necessarily like the car nor it's manufacturer. I've never really liked Mustangs, but I wouldn't find some numbers and use that to somehow give my opinion any extra credit beyond what it is. I personally find Lincolns to be subpar entries in the luxury market, but I'm not going to insult someone for simply owning one. I would never buy a Japanese car, nor do I like the majority of Japanese manufacturers... but I'll give credit where credit is due. Take the GTR - I think it's an awesome piece of hardware... but I don't like it... So if one were to go back through all of the posts there's been about the GTR on here, they'd find I haven't really commented on it.

There's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance... and I'd say generally, members of this forum tend to show enough decorum to stay behind that line. But once we start taking our opinions and using them as definitive, all-encompassing assertions - that's a different story. We all think whatever the hell we want... and that's fine as long as we remember that it's what we think and that such thoughts don't necessarily equate to reality.You are right and I'll admit I shouldn't have come back but..............he started it:crybaby::crybaby:.

I admit the Mustang is crap, dont know what I was thinking when I bought it. Wish I kept my Deville instead and fixed it. I admit that the Challenger is full of fail too and should not be compared to a shitbox like a Mustang which is even more full of fail. I thank everyone for setting me straight. Excuse me, I'm gonna go try to vacuum some fail out of my car even though it probably wont work. :alchi:

MauiV
05-07-08, 10:28 PM
I hope you have a Dyson. Probably gonna need the big one.

RightTurn
05-07-08, 11:00 PM
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z117/sarahw422/In-case-of-failure.jpg




There ya go, Jimmy. :D)

Blackout
05-08-08, 12:06 AM
When I opened up this sections page for the first time in a day or two and saw this thread was on page 19 I immediately regretted even starting this thread. But there has been some good lulz at least


Here's a GTR you can set your watch to, M3 GTR that is.

1q8ZNkhxT04&hl

M3 GTR is a hell of a car but a cardboard trunk is full of fail as well.

Blackout
05-08-08, 12:10 AM
Chalk up another loss for the skyline

_YPqho2LMcs

I really hope you are joking with this one

AlBundy
05-08-08, 12:28 AM
The Mustange is like Kobe Bryant. You hate him but he's good at what he does. Attitude sucks but he's one hell of a player.

thebigjimsho
05-08-08, 12:42 AM
http://wiw.org/%7Ejess/wp-uploads/vaderchick.jpg

thebigjimsho
05-08-08, 12:44 AM
http://members.arstechnica.com/x/skyslash/Moron.jpg

thebigjimsho
05-08-08, 12:46 AM
http://www.toasterwaffles.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/imagesairport-fail.jpg

thebigjimsho
05-08-08, 12:49 AM
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/96/1198564989401sm9.jpg

AlBundy
05-08-08, 12:54 AM
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/96/1198564989401sm9.jpg

Now that made me lolouddddd.

gary88
05-08-08, 01:33 AM
M3 GTR is a hell of a car but a cardboard trunk is full of fail as well.

You're thinking of the road version. The video is of this:

http://images.google.com/url?q=http://www.imca-slotracing.com/images/RING24H-02.jpg&usg=AFQjCNE9eU3h4u07bWivttR2otTxtzhBVQ

And if I had an M3 GTR or CSL, carrying things in the trunk would be the last thing on my mind.


I really hope you are joking with this one

Well, it was clearly a loss.

MauiV
05-08-08, 08:58 AM
All thats missin is a sixer of PBR.

Spyder
05-08-08, 10:11 AM
Ha, funny thing is...that Superbird, the way it sits, is probably worth about the same as a brand new Challenger.

gothicaleigh
05-08-08, 01:01 PM
Everything I need to know about the car industry I learned in the Cadillac Forums Lounge.

-The older a Mercedes or BMW is, the cooler it becomes
-The older an American car is, the crappier it becomes
-Nearly everyone thinks Mustangs are garbage, regardless of age
-God created the GT-R
-Afterwards, he pooped and made the Challenger
-Don't let your parrot drive your M3

:rofl:

JimmyH
05-08-08, 01:16 PM
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z117/sarahw422/In-case-of-failure.jpg




There ya go, Jimmy. :D)


always lovin it :D , thanks "gorgeous" :thumbsup:





http://members.arstechnica.com/x/skyslash/Moron.jpg


that is definitely a big time fail right there

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-08-08, 04:01 PM
She was a fail since the day she was born.

MauiV
05-08-08, 08:53 PM
But she can get a $6 Burger right across the street!!!

hueterm
05-08-08, 09:05 PM
I wonder if she knows her babydaddy well enough to know if he's full of fail or not?

concorso
05-08-08, 09:30 PM
I can't believe how seriously certain people have taken this thread!
Smoking pregnant lady needs to hook up with the baller in the Astro Van with sporty side skirts!! Hot-diggity!

JimmyH
05-08-08, 10:00 PM
I think this thread is serious entertainment.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-08-08, 10:25 PM
It gets five stars, because in one thread, there is mention of the Challenger, the GT-R, the '81 Cutlass Supreme ( :drool: ) and afterburners.

Spyder
05-08-08, 10:56 PM
And smoking pregnant chicks!

dkozloski
05-09-08, 12:41 AM
For the Pony Car and Hemi lovers. Nice Duster.

IyrcP5utXt4

Sweeeeet.
Why does everybody make so much about a 1940s design, push rod gallumpous motor. Behold the incredible dinosaur that lives on it's reputation made 50 years ago. It's a tribute to excess and little more.

gothicaleigh
05-09-08, 09:23 AM
It gets five stars, because in one thread, there is mention of the Challenger, the GT-R, the '81 Cutlass Supreme ( :drool: ) and afterburners.

...and the e30.

The Aztecs worshipped the e30. So should you.

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4172/aztecslol1zp9.jpg

MauiV
05-09-08, 10:37 AM
Oh yeah, neither Boeing nor Lockheed make jet engines (w/afterburners), they build airplanes.

GE, Rolls Royce and Pratt and Whitney make jet engines.

Needed to throw that in since this thread is legally binding as truth and nothing but the truth once Goth noted the Aztecs

gary88
05-09-08, 12:29 PM
That one guy being sacrificed is even giving a thumbs up!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-09-08, 12:41 PM
He certainly doesn't mind dying for the E30.

JimmyH
05-09-08, 01:18 PM
Why does everybody make so much about a 1940s design, push rod gallumpous motor. Behold the incredible dinosaur that lives on it's reputation made 50 years ago. It's a tribute to excess and little more.

I like my push rod gallumpous motor. But mine doesn't have a fake name. (**cough**hemi**cough**)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-09-08, 01:19 PM
Vortec, Triton.

dkozloski
05-09-08, 02:48 PM
Buick Fireball Eight.
Chevrolet Blue Flame Six.
Oldsmobile Rocket.
Plymouth Golden Commando.
Ford Y Block.
Hudson Super Six.

JimmyH
05-09-08, 02:56 PM
LS6 for real
no name, just lots and lots and lots and lots of torque, and revs!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-09-08, 03:40 PM
I'm just throwing this one out there, don't mean anything by it.....

Northstar.

The Tony Show
05-09-08, 03:56 PM
...and the e30.

The Aztecs worshipped the e30. So should you.



Pfffftt. I worship the Aztek.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii137/the_tonyshow/worship.jpg

I~LUV~Caddys8792
05-09-08, 05:22 PM
Make ME one of those Tony!!

dkozloski
05-09-08, 05:42 PM
The Aztek looks like a garbage packer truck.

LS1Mike
05-09-08, 07:37 PM
Pfffftt. I worship the Aztek.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii137/the_tonyshow/worship.jpg

F-ing nice!!!:thumbsup:

The Tony Show
05-09-08, 07:48 PM
Make ME one of those Tony!!

Post the picture of the car you want and it's all yours. :thumbsup:

LS1Mike
05-09-08, 08:11 PM
Post the picture of the car you want and it's all yours. :thumbsup:
oooh oooh oooh I want one!

thebigjimsho
05-09-08, 11:33 PM
Pfffftt. I worship the Aztek.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii137/the_tonyshow/worship.jpgDid the Aztek bestow you with a head of hair??

thebigjimsho
05-09-08, 11:36 PM
I like my push rod gallumpous motor. But mine doesn't have a fake name. (**cough**hemi**cough**)http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL555/2287429/4482063/95371436.jpg

RightTurn
05-10-08, 12:22 AM
Did the Aztek bestow you with a head of hair??

Harsh. Yet...amusing. :lol:

The Tony Show
05-10-08, 09:05 AM
My hair follicles fail worse than the SRT-8 Challenger. :nono:

MauiV
05-10-08, 02:10 PM
Im wondering why Jim is telling everyone they should have bought a Hemi.

The Tony Show
05-10-08, 02:51 PM
Technically, he's saying that his car is parked next to a Hemi.

LS1Mike
05-10-08, 06:02 PM
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh303/abrichford/turdbeast.jpg
seemed pretty random.

JimmyH
05-11-08, 03:39 PM
i likes bigjim's plate; mis-spelling and all...

thebigjimsho
05-11-08, 05:58 PM
i likes bigjim's plate; mis-spelling and all...Ahem, mis-spelling would indicate a mistake. No mistake was made. MA only allows a 6 digit plate.