: Cam Results: +57 rwhp / + 45 rwtq



trukk
05-01-08, 02:11 PM
Here's a quick nutshell of my results. I'll post a long winded, Type A, anal retentive post after this one for those interested in the gory details (I also like to have a record of the stuff I do to my car, so what better place than here.)

Summary of Results:

Car: Full bolton (less electric waterpump and UD Harmonic Balancer) w/ cats 05 CTS-V (LS6).

New Cam (224/228 111+0 custom PatrickG spec) + 25% UD Balancer.

Change:
+ 57 Rwhp
+ 45 Rwhtq

Max:
412 Rwhp
380 Rwtq

Average (2700 rpm - 6300 rpm):
361 (+50)
315 (+51)

Dyno was PSI's Mustang 1100, using SAE correction. (Note: on another local Mustang 1100 (FBC's) my baseline numbers were + 23 rwhp and +15 rwtq higher, for whatever that's worth)

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/9959/2008apr30camdynosmalljq3.jpg]

Pre cam, and base-tuned cam video, cold start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu0vfB-7U0g

I'll try to get a warm start post final tune video up sometime soon.

Previous post on pre-cam mods & dyno results.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822519

Thanks to:

Jeff @ PSI (GrannySShifting) for the install and the tune
PatrickG for the cam spec
A502slo, 2c5s, VetteNutz and JonCR96Z for answering a bunch of questions.
New Era, ByunSpeed, Thunder Racing, Texas Speed & Lingenfelter for the help in purchasing

The car runs great, and really pulls nicely now. Utterly boring details in next post.

-Chris

trukk
05-01-08, 02:11 PM
Initial mods:
- Corsa 2.5" dual Exhaust w/ H Pipe.
- Kooks 1.75" longtubes, w/ metallic cats.
- Lingenfleter CAI (basically a K&N filter surrounded by plastic, sealing to the hood to create a 'cool' compartment, sperate from the rest of the engine compartment.)
- Stealth V FFV v2 (basically this is like a smooth bellows for a CTS-V. It replaces the stock squeeze tube and elbow to the TB.)
- Nick Williams 90 MM Billet Throttle body w/ ETC.
- Tony Mamo ported Fast 90 Intake Manifold.
- Dyno tune by Brett @ F-Body Central.

I'll list my new mods below, and give a quick description why I picked what I did. First though, my selection criteria:

1) I only want to add stuff once, so I'd rather spend more now, than have to upgrade or replace later
2) This car (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/) is a Daily Driver, so reliability trumps price for me.
3) I take my car to the road course approximately 4 weekends a year. High RPM operation is a big consideration for me (see #2)
With that in mind, here is a break down of what/why/how-much. Keep in mind that if you shop around, you may be able to get a lower price, or a package deal. Prices and web links are for info only.


Caveat: I'm just a guy on the Internet. Below is how I came to my component choices. I think I was pretty thorough, but this may not work for you, or some of my info may not be complete. DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK.


Finally, I listed out all this stuff in excruciating detail, because (well again Iím anal), but in other ďhereís my results postsĒ, I always seemed to have a lot of question on why someone chose what they did, or what the cost/part number might be etc., so I figured Iíd spell it all out. Please point out any errors you may find to help others out.

trukk
05-01-08, 02:12 PM
Components:

1) Yella Terra Ultralite 1.7 ratio non adjustable rockers.

Description: YT Ultra Lites are lighter than stock, and most importantly they are lighter at the end of the rocker, this making the Momentum of Inertia (MOI) less, which *should* make them more efficient than stock. Also they a 'quasi' shaft mounted. Each set of intake (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/)/exhaust valves is on it's own shaft. This makes the rockers more stable at higher RPM's. It also makes them a LOT less expensive than full on shaft mounted options. YT Ultra lites require no modification to the valve covers to fit. 1.7 ratio is the stock ration. They also offer 1.8
Part Number: 6645
Website: http://www.mphparts.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MM&Product_Cod e=113-6645&Category_Code=GTOLS1VLV
Cost: $419.99

2) Cloyes Hex Adjust timing set (single chain)
∑ Description: The Cloyes stuff is very nice. Probably overkill from a chain perspective. It offers infinite advance retard capability (not it 1 degree increments like most), and is fairly dummy proof to install, unlike a lot of adjustable timing sets. The chain itself is very high quality, and negates the need for a dual roller chain. I ended up installing the cam dot to dot, so I didnít end up using the adjustability portion, however itís there for the future if I ever need it.
∑ Part Number: 3153A
∑ Website: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=clo-9-3153a (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=clo-9-3153a)
∑ Cost: $169.69
∑ Note: I couldnít find a sponsor that carried this. MODS if you know of one, feel free to substitute a link.


3) Comp Hardened push rods (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/) (7.425)

Description: The hardened chromoly pushrods flex less than stock, and provide a more stable and robust valve train, which equates to better higher RPM performance, and overall more reliability.
Part Number: 7796-16
Website: http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog/?action=vshop&vid=17&pcid=106 (http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog/?action=vshop&vid=17&pcid=106)
Cost: 132.99
4) Patriot Gold 'Extreme' Dual springs with Ti retainers and Super 7 locks
∑ Description: Valve springs (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/) are a wear item, and will eventually need to be replaced. Stock design is single beehives. The patriots are standard duals. Typical beehives are good up to .6" of cam lift, above that it's good to go with a dual sprint to handle the lift, and give the proper amount of seat pressure. While dual springs are a bit heavier (more MOI), than beehives, they also have 2 springs, so if one breaks, you still have the other, to hopefully get the valve out of the pistons way if you do have a failure. If a single breaks, the probability is very high that your engine is going to eat a valve, which is 'not good'. The Ti retainers (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/) cut down on weight over the stock retainers (less MOI). Finally the Super7 locks are higher quality than stock, and better than the ones that Texas Speed includes in their springs kits. NOTE: Texas Speed and patriot both use the same spring manufacturer, so the actual springs are the same, the only difference between the two is the associated hardware.
∑ Part Number: 198-8501
∑ Website: http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog/?action=shop&sid=815&pcid=109 (http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog/?action=shop&sid=815&pcid=109)
∑ Cost: $279.99

5) Melling high flow oil pump

Description: The Melling pump is a bit higher quality, and pumps 18% more oil than OEM.
Part Number: 10296
Website: http://www.byunspeed.com/product_inf...oducts_id=6642 (http://www.byunspeed.com/product_info.php?products_id=6642)
Cost: $139.95

trukk
05-01-08, 02:12 PM
Components (continued):

2) 42lbs flow matched Lucas injectors
∑ Note 1: At WOT before the new install, my injector duty cycle (IDC) was at 92%. While you can go over 100%, you start going lean at higher RPM/s WOT (Bad). If also lessens the injectors lifespan running them over 100%. With my cam I will be well over 100% IDC. You can get away without this for a while, but will probably eventually need to upgrade injectors.
∑ Note 2: After the Install at WOT my IDC was 60%. Iím definitely not going to run out of injector any time soon.
∑ Description: Stock injectors are 28.5 lbs/hr at 58 PSI fuel rail (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/) pressure. I went flow matched so I know that all the injectors are flowing what they are supposed to be. New Era gave me a nice spreadsheet of what each was actually flowing (within 1% of each other). You can then put the two 'fattest' injectors in #7 and #8 cylinders, since they tend to run the leanest based on the way the intakes work on our cars. Please note that these injectors are spec'd for an Gen III LSX, which has a different injector connection than an Gen IV LSX. Also note that some injectors are spec's at 40 PSI fuel rail (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/) pressure, and some are at 58 PSI. LSX fuel rails run at 58 PSI, however you can use injectors spec's at 40. For example the ford motorsports red top 30# per hour are rated at 40 PSI, so on GM cars, they act more like a 36-38 lbs/hr injector when running at 58 PSI. I went with 42 Lbs/hr, as I don't foresee my car ever going over 500 rwhp (probably not anywhere near that but I wanted to be safe, see selection criteria #1 above)
∑ Part Number: ??
∑ Website: http://www.neweraperformanceparts.com/default.asp?S=503&A=E&PKV=c5l42fm|0 (http://www.neweraperformanceparts.com/default.asp?S=503&A=E&PKV=c5l42fm%7C0)
∑ Cost: $329.95
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9706/42lbinjectorreportgx8.jpg

3) All ARP fasteners
∑ Description: I went with the following ARP Fasteners:
Edlebrock LS1 Rocker Arm (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/) Bolts (made by ARP): EDL-8597 $29.95 (shorter than normal to prevent flow obstruction) (NOTE: My installer said these didnít fit, so they didnít go on. For sale if interested :D)
ARP LS1 Harmonic Balancer Bolt: 234-2503 $26.24
ARP HP Series Cam Sprocket Bolt Kit: 134-1003 $8.88
ARP GENIII/LS Series Small Black Timing Cover Bolt Kit: $24.39
ARP GENIII/LS Cam retainer Bolts: 113-134-1002: $7.49
∑ Part Number: (see description)
∑ Website:
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog/?action=manufacturer&mid=15
http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/edl-8597.html (http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/edl-8597.html)
∑ Cost: See description

4) ASP 25% UD Harmonic Balancer

Description: The harmonic balancer on the crank shaft is 25% smaller than OEM, make it lighter (MOI), and spinning the accessories 25% slower, thus requiring less power to turn them.
NOTE: This will require a smaller pulley belt. Since I have a CTS-V, none of the vendors had a belt pre-sized as part of a package for me. My installer ended up needing to measure, and came up with:http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/857/41154d1208200966accesorzy0.jpg[/img

Part Number: 941020
Website: http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=642&catid=16 (http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=642&catid=16)
Cost: $245.99
5) Cam Shaft

Description: Makes the valves (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/) open and close :D. There are a lot of options when considering a cam. How do you want it to perform (daily driver, street/strip, strip only/ max effort, road course), how do you want it to sound and idle (stock sounding, mild lope, medium lope, heavy lope/barley idles), etc. My main criteria where (in addition to my main criteria above) was good on the road course, and would I wouldn't need to replace valve springs (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/) every 20k - 30k miles (note this is a big reason I went with the higher spec Dual Extreme valve springs, which are rated up to .660 lift, even though my cam's max lift is .609.) Finally, I had Lingenfelter get Comp Cams to run the cam through their Adcole cam measurement machine after it was cut, to validate that what I ordered is what I got. The Adcole is much more accurate than a 'cam-doctor' machine. I will use this report in conjunction with the adjustable timing set, to make sure my cam is installed dead nuts.
CAM SPECís: [img]http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2919/camspecspatgoe1.jpg

Part Number: N/A
Website: http://guerragroup.com/camshaft_help.htm (http://guerragroup.com/camshaft_help.htm)
Cost: Cam spec - $25.00. Custom grind + Adcole report $415.00
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4210/adcoleqg4.jpg

Miscellaneous Crap:
SDPC Cam Install Gasket Kit: KITSD51902: $61.95
ARP Assembly Lube: 100-9903: $6.95
COMP Cams Engine Assembly Lube 102: $8.99
Mobil 1 x 13 Qts: $50.00
Gallon of Distilled Water: $2.00
Gallon of DexCool: $20.00(??)

trukk
05-01-08, 02:12 PM
Rather long winded, Thanks for reading this far.

So what's the cost:
Parts: $2370.44
Dyno Tune: $500.00
Install: Cost will vary

This install was definitely on the Ďoverkillí side of things.

Bottom line is that the car runs great now, sounds awesome (at least to my subjective ear), and pulls very nicely. Iím definitely one happy camper.

Next step will be some nice top shelf heads, gaskets & lifters, then Iím done :D.


-Chris

NormV
05-01-08, 02:21 PM
Might make a good sticky!

Good numbers Chris! Can't wait to see/hear it in a week! :)


Norm

Twitch
05-01-08, 02:23 PM
Rather long winded, Thanks for reading this far.

So what's the cost:
Parts: $2370.44
Dyno Tune: $500.00
Install: Cost will vary

This install was definitely on the Ďoverkillí side of things.

Bottom line is that the car runs great now, sounds awesome (at least to my subjective ear), and pulls very nicely. Iím definitely one happy camper.

Next step will be some nice top shelf heads, gaskets & lifters, then Iím done :D.


-Chris

Nice. :thumbsup:
I'm thinking about maybe getting a cam someday. So after I learn Greek, I can read your posts, and figure out what I'll do :confused:

Civardi
05-01-08, 02:45 PM
Rather long winded, Thanks for reading this far.



[FONT=Times New Roman]Next step will be some nice top shelf heads, gaskets & lifters, then Iím done :D.


-Chris

You do mean done with that step right? I have a feeling there may be more.:thumbsup:

onebadcad
05-01-08, 02:57 PM
Great write-up, and as I said before, very nicely done. Power gains are more than I thought, and the video clip is awesome. Who cares if you are spending the wifey's retirement, it was well worth it!
Look like the only bolt-ons left for you are some better flowing heads, Patriot represents great value.
I see you mentioned heads at the end of your posts, should be a great write-up for that in the near future, and try to keep it under $3K.
Great job, you can be proud of your V, looks like you are an owner for life!!!

trukk
05-01-08, 03:01 PM
I see you mentioned heads at the end of your posts, should be a great write-up for that in the near future, and try to keep it under $3K.


LOL, nothing I spend on this car seems to come in under that price. :banghead: Guess that's analretentive tax :D

As of now I'm planning on going with AFR 205's, or maybe some trickflow's. Some Caddy lifters (of course), and then a thinner head gasket to up the compression just a hair. Depending on how long it takes to before I go to the next step, I may replace the springs at that time (depends on how many miles I rack up between now and then).

I have a feeling though that my next big expense will be rear end related.

-Chris

JD03Cobra
05-01-08, 03:06 PM
You are anal! Nice work...I'm really interested in a cam setup myself but no way can I do that install. Thinking about having it done over at Livernoismotorsports.com here in MI.

Thanks again!

Kaane
05-01-08, 03:06 PM
In a CTS-V do you need to pull the motor out to do a cam swap?

thebigjimsho
05-01-08, 03:07 PM
Wow, nice numbers Chirs.

trukk
05-01-08, 04:10 PM
In a CTS-V do you need to pull the motor out to do a cam swap?

Nope, radiator needs to come out, but that's about it.

-Chris

rangerrob
05-01-08, 04:45 PM
412.. to the wheels... niiice... how much is that at the flywheel? now you just need to procharge it :)

trukk
05-01-08, 05:02 PM
412.. to the wheels... niiice... how much is that at the flywheel? now you just need to procharge it :)
I'm figuring I'm around 525/550 ish at the Flywheel. The dyno the 412 number came from tends to read a bit on the low side (with all my bolton's it read 355, vs. 378 at another local shop with a mustang dyno).

N/A all the way for me. no huffers or hair driers here :D

-Chris

rangerrob
05-01-08, 05:41 PM
what's the general rule of thumb, like 20% difference between pavement and the flywheel??? just get a 427 already!!! or maybe an lsa or ls9 swap =) how sick would that be!? :eek:

silverAg
05-01-08, 05:46 PM
you're numbers are really good...cams really make a big difference!

Kaane
05-01-08, 06:44 PM
how is the idle? How bad is the noise during regular freeway cruising?

JonCR96Z
05-01-08, 06:48 PM
Thanks to:

Jeff @ PSI (GrannySShifting) for the install and the tune
PatrickG for the cam spec
A502slo, 2c5s, VetteNutz and JonCR96Z for answering a bunch of questions.

Anytime


The Mustang that will be used for tuning right now has me at 355 rwhp (not sure the tq, becuase I don't have that dyno sheet.)

I'll be happy with 390, but hopping for 400+.

On the dyno on my sig I'd say 415 would make me happy. I'd be bouncing off the walls if I saw a +55 rwhp from this install :bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:.

-Chris

Is that so? I just hope that my guess on my setup is as close as I was here. I won't say what I think that is for jinxing purposes, though.

Also you're sig (which is getting a little lengthy) says 'YT 1.7" rockers'. You dont need the ". And you're welcome for that too.

Jon (the bolt-on king?)

JonCR96Z
05-01-08, 07:28 PM
As of now I'm planning on going with AFR 205's, or maybe some trickflow's.

GrannySShitting pushing those trickflows, again?

rand49er
05-01-08, 08:23 PM
Nice numbers, Chris! 412 on a Mustang dyno no less!

Looks like it comes on in that 4000-4500 RPM area judging by that torque curve ... bet it feels good.

Congrats!

trukk
05-01-08, 08:32 PM
what's the general rule of thumb, like 20% difference between pavement and the flywheel??? just get a 427 already!!! or maybe an lsa or ls9 swap =) how sick would that be!? :eek:

No engine swaps for me :D. I think the general rule of thumb in for our ruberized mess of a drivetrain is 18-20 %. Normally an M6 would be 15%, but since Cadiwack through som much damned rubber and other crap in the drivetrain, ours is more.


how is the idle? How bad is the noise during regular freeway cruising?

Cruising is fine. Idle is moderate chop. Due to one of my engine mounts being near the end of its life (fluid is gone, but rubber hasn't split yet according to ewill3rd), warm idle is set at 850 right now, and it rocks pretty good. Once I get the UUC motor mounts in, I'll move it back down to 800, and we'll see how much it's rockin :D. I spec'd this came knowing it would have moderate lope. If you want one that's a bit more civilized, then you can up the LSA a few degrees (our stock cam is a 118 I believe, vs. this one at 111)


Anytime



Is that so? I just hope that my guess on my setup is as close as I was here. I won't say what I think that is for jinxing purposes, though.

Also you're sig (which is getting a little lengthy) says 'YT 1.7" rockers'. You dont need the ". And you're welcome for that too.

Jon (the bolt-on king?)

You nailed it man. Bolt-on king, and Dyno Prgnosticator Extraordinaire :worship:.


GrannySShitting pushing those trickflows, again?

LOL, no. I've had no dicussions with Jeff regarding heads. He's a good kid, and once you actually get a hold of him, he does good work, he's just hard to get a hold of.

The shop scene up this way is nuts, PSI, FBC and now Glen Burnie Boys racing (or whatever they are called), always seem to be at each others throats, and like to bash on each other pretty good. I don;t think Jeff posts on Ls1tech much anymore because of that BS (and while I don't blame him, he needs to get back on for marketting purposes).

-Chris

Luna.
05-02-08, 12:04 PM
what's the general rule of thumb, like 20% difference between pavement and the flywheel??? just get a 427 already!!! or maybe an lsa or ls9 swap =) how sick would that be!? :eek:

I've always used 15%, as that's what the experts have consistently told me. :)


Nice numbers Chris. The increase in rwtq is REALLY nice...

Kaane
05-02-08, 12:37 PM
video? =P

trukk
05-02-08, 12:53 PM
video? =P

LOL, link was in there, put got kinda burried in that 10,000 word essay :D

nu0vfB-7U0g

This vid was when it just had a base tune on the cam. It idles lower now and has a bit more chop.

-Chris

rangerrob
05-02-08, 04:45 PM
we want vid, we want vid, we want a NEW vid (let's hear the chop)!!

trukk
05-02-08, 06:28 PM
we want vid, we want vid, we want a NEW vid (let's hear the chop)!!

Heh, I tried yesterday, but couldn;t find the damned power cable for my video camera (I left it after uploading the last video :thepan:), and my wife had the other smaller cam in her car.

I'll try. You may have to wait to hear it in person on Friday.

-Chris

JonCR96Z
05-02-08, 07:41 PM
Heh, I tried yesterday, but couldn;t find the damned power cable for my video camera (I left it after uploading the last video :thepan:), and my wife had the other smaller cam in her car.

I'll try. You may have to wait to hear it in person on Friday.

-Chris

What kind of car does your wife have and what are the specs on her cam? Since I won't be there on Friday, I want a new video NOW!!

Jon

SkullV
05-03-08, 09:43 AM
What kind of car does your wife have and what are the specs on her cam? Since I won't be there on Friday, I want a new video NOW!!

Jon

Cam...like Camera...I think?

trukk
05-03-08, 10:47 AM
Cam...like Camera...I think?
LOL, ya cam = camera :D

Wife has a Yukon XL with a stock 5.3 in it.

Bad thread to use cam as an abreviation for camera I guess :D

-Chris

Twitch
05-03-08, 12:19 PM
What kind of car does your wife have and what are the specs on her cam? Since I won't be there on Friday, I want a new video NOW!!

Jon

I'll be there :bouncy:

It must suck for the guys how aren't going.

JonCR96Z
05-04-08, 12:51 AM
LOL, ya cam = camera :D

Wife has a Yukon XL with a stock 5.3 in it.

Bad thread to use cam as an abbreviation for camera I guess :D

-Chris

Sounds like a perfect candidate for a stock LS6 cam and springs. I plan on putting my cam in my Escalade whenever I do the swap.


I'll be there :bouncy:

It must suck for the guys who aren't going.

I'm not worried about it, not my thing. What is it that they say? Any monkey can drive around a curve, but it takes a real driver to go straight? I think that's how it goes. Sounds right anyway.

Jon

v-sam
05-04-08, 02:49 AM
Don't be cheap Chris buy your wife an 8.3 motor and throw a CAM on it! Nice to see the numbers I bet it really pulls. Can't wait to see it go down the back straight at VIR with my V in toe.

trukk
05-05-08, 01:07 PM
Guys,

I recieved a few PM's asking about some of my other mods, and asking to explain my cam a bit more. I'm posting here in addtion to responding to the PM's in case anyone else is interested.

Again keep in mind this is my understanding, etc.

The KARS III cradle kit is basically a subframe connector for our cars. It ties the rear craddle & front pinion support area to the main frame of the car (or as much of a frame that a unibody has), helping to reduce wheelhop, and stiffen up the rear end.

Mamofied Fast 90/90 is a Fast 90mm intake, that I had ported by AFR Engineer Tony Mamo (hence the mamo-fied). A ported fast 90 is supposed to be good for approx 35 rwhp. It's overkill if you don't have a cam or heads/cam (I lost alot of TQ putting it on before my cam install, and only gained about 10 rwhp over 5200 rpms). The NW 90 TB, is a Nick Williams billet aluminum throttle body. The 90 mm is required for the Fast 90. I could have gone with an LS2 90mm tb, but the NW is supposed to flow a bit better, and with the LS2 you have to change the connector, which requires splicing wires, which I didn't want to do.

The cam explanation is a bit more involved:

224: This is the duration in degrees that the intake valve stays open. The higher the number the longer it stays open. I think stock LS6 is like 210. 224 is considered a smallish to medium aftermarket cam, by most. About the biggest you can go without flycutting the pistons is 240ish (these are usually refered to as donkey d!ck cams, and are bought by people that don't have a clue, or only use their cars for seriousl drag racing at the strip). The only issue with going really big is you loose a lot of lower RPM TQ, while gaiing a bit of HP up high. Not worth the tradeoff to me.

228: Exhasut valve duration. Stock l6 is 218 I think.

XFI/XE-R: is the type/shape of intake and exhaust lobe respectively. The XFI lobe ramps up to max lift quicker than an X-ER (which itself is a pretty agressive lobe). There are other lobes that are more agressive (LSK, etc.), but they tend to be really hard on valve springs. So these are agressive enough.

111+0: This is the Lobe Seperation Angle (or LSA), and the ammount of advance (or retard if the number is negative) that is gorund into the cam. LS6 cam has an LSA of 118. Basically LSA is how many degrees apart the centerline of the intake and exhasut valve are. The lower the number the closer they are, and the more overlap (time when the intake and exhasut valve are open at the same time) the have )nopte you can have a low LSA and no overlap if the lobe types have very non agressive ramp rates) . Overlap is determined by the lobe types, and is good to premote scavenging of exhaust gases in the chamber (basically the exahust leaving the piston ends up creating a lower pressure area, then the intake valve opens and new fresh air is sucked in, this is in addition to the normal pumping action of the piston). Overlap also determines how 'choppy' a cam is. At low RPM's (like idle) the aircharge isn't moving fast enough for scavenging to occur, and because the exhaust and intake valves are open at the same time, some of the waste gas reverts backinto the intake manifold. Exhaust gas has most of the oxygen burnt away, thus making the current air charge have less, and not burning as well. Advance and retard move the TQ curve left and right. Stock type timming chains don;t have an easy way to advance or retard a cam. You can get adjustable timing sets (like I used), to make more accurate and minute changes in advance. Some people will just get the advance or retard they want on their cam ground in (hence when you seem numbers like 109+3, or 114-2, etc.)

.610/.588 are the height of the intake and exhaust lobes on the cam. You multiply this number by your rocker ratio (i.e. stock is 1.7) to get the amount the valves actually open. Stock LS6 is .550 ish. If you go much above .575 you need better springs than the yellow LS6 ones. I went Patriot Gold Extreme's as added protection. They are good up to .660 max lift. Without flycutting about the max lift you are going to go is .640ish (this depends on the duration and LSA also, and again donkey d!ck in size). *usually* the higher lift cams make more HP, but can sacrifice some TQ to get it.


Thanks,

Chris

HushH
05-05-08, 02:34 PM
...About the biggest you can go without flycutting the pistons is 240ish (these are usually refered to as donkey d!ck cams, and are bought by people that don't have a clue...

:rant2: :thepan:

JonCR96Z
05-05-08, 06:36 PM
.610/.588 are the height of the intake and exhaust lobes on the cam. You multiply this number by your rocker ratio (i.e. stock is 1.7) to get the amount the valves actually open.

These numbers are the actually amount that the valve opens. Cam grinders assume 1.7 rockers (in the case of LSx engines). Your cam lobes are only .358/.345. Way bigger than the cam in my bolt-on motor.

Jon

trukk
05-05-08, 08:34 PM
These numbers are the actually amount that the valve opens. Cam grinders assume 1.7 rockers (in the case of LSx engines). Your cam lobes are only .358/.345. Way bigger than the cam in my bolt-on motor.

Jon

Doh, you're right. Looking at the adcole report, mine are .359, .346.

-Chris

trukk
05-05-08, 08:39 PM
:rant2: :thepan:

LOL. Struck a nerve.

Post your cam spec's and post your dyno sheet :D

-Chris

BacDoc
05-05-08, 08:59 PM
What do you guys do with this kind of power. I can't hardly keep the car in a straight line stock!


*where can I get such a cam?

trukk
05-05-08, 09:11 PM
What do you guys do with this kind of power. I can't hardly keep the car in a straight line stock!


*where can I get such a cam?

LOL, I went over that in the mammoth post up top :D.

I ordered mine from Lingenfelter, but there are a million and a half vendors that make their own cams of can do a custom grind for you. If you aren;t really sure, one of the best places to start your research is at a local speedshop (prefereably one that specializes in LSX engines), and listen and ride in a few cars that have different cams in them.

Cams are kinds like tits, they come in a myriad of different shapes and sizes. You have to test some out and decide which is best for you :D

-Chris

trukk
05-05-08, 09:13 PM
Finally got around to taking a warm start video:

YfmyP5xpG34

Idle is set at 850 right now, because my motor mounts are hurting, and setting it at 800 made the engine rock too much :D

-Chris

rand49er
05-06-08, 06:01 AM
Finally got around to taking a warm start video:

YfmyP5xpG34

Idle is set at 850 right now, because my motor mounts are hurting, and setting it at 800 made the engine rock too much :D

-ChrisI hope that wasn't early in the morning, Chris.

Your neighbors must love you. :histeric:

HushH
05-06-08, 10:02 AM
LOL. Struck a nerve.

Post your cam spec's and post your dyno sheet :D

-Chris


Nah, I know alot of people feel that way. I just don't think you have to shy away from big cams just because they're big...provided you have a good tuner.

Mine is 238/240 .605/.609 113+3


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/HushH/CamDyno20018.jpg

trukk
05-06-08, 11:28 AM
I hope that wasn't early in the morning, Chris.

Your neighbors must love you. :histeric:

Heh, I've been getting afew more looks from them lately.

I did this video around 6pm. A bunch of my neighbors were outside with their kids and what not, and They all did the neck snap when I reved :D

-Chris

Twitch
05-06-08, 11:54 AM
Heh, I've been getting afew more looks from them lately.

I did this video around 6pm. A bunch of my neighbors were outside with their kids and what not, and They all did the neck snap when I reved :D

-Chris

:confused: I thought he said that was a Cadillac??? :fallingover:

trukk
12-29-10, 02:22 PM
50K Mile update:No real problems. Car still runs great. Still daily driven (120k miles now). I have not replaced the springs (may go to PAC behives if/when I do.) No other engine mods since then.I did have to swap out an alternator. Not sure if it's related to the UD pulley (I didn't change the pulley on the alternator). If it goes out again, I may swap out the UD pulley.I guess if you plan it right, and spend the money up front, it will last.-Chris

rand49er
12-29-10, 02:41 PM
Hey, good to hear from you, Chris, and to hear that your car is still doing great.

You forgot to mention that in addition to it being your DD, you also track it occasionally. Wow! ... 120k miles and still going without a glitch ... :thumbsup:

Twitch
12-29-10, 03:16 PM
^^^What he said

crankedupforit
12-29-10, 03:30 PM
Chris were have you been? Glad to hear from an oldtimer.

Never figured out how you got a 111 LSA cam to run so good on the street. My dinky 112 GM Hot Cam has been a nightmare.

trukk
12-29-10, 04:04 PM
I'm still around, just been very busy. I have my own business, and it's been going very well, but it takes up *sooo* much time. I haven't been to the track for 2 years :(. Thinking about getting a V wagon (m6, recaros, with no ultra-view of course). Gonna make this thing my track car eventually :). Still need to get some AFR 205's though.

-Chris

thebigjimsho
12-29-10, 04:58 PM
I'm still around, just been very busy. I have my own business, and it's been going very well, but it takes up *sooo* much time. I haven't been to the track for 2 years :(. Thinking about getting a V wagon (m6, recaros, with no ultra-view of course). Gonna make this thing my track car eventually :). Still need to get some AFR 205's though.

-Chris
Getting no Ultra-view could be difficult...

Zo6PwRd
12-29-10, 11:30 PM
Damn iw as gonna ask how you gained 57 from a smaller cam, then i saw the mod list lol. Your not too far from me actually. IS fbody central still around?

Naf
12-30-10, 02:44 AM
I am so with you on that...We tried the 108 from Katech and OMG anything below 1500 was near impossible on the engine dyno...I finally installed a GT1-1, though i wanted the GT7 cam...


My Tahoe has a 216/226 LSA114, and when its cold its a little choppy while it hunts...But am still AFM friendly and man i can haul ass...

rand49er
12-30-10, 07:48 AM
Ah-h, yes ... just like old times. ^^


:cloud9:

darkman
12-30-10, 08:09 AM
I drilled holes in my camshaft when I learned it was rotating weight, but I then I saw the crarnkshaft and................................

trukk
12-30-10, 12:02 PM
Damn iw as gonna ask how you gained 57 from a smaller cam, then i saw the mod list lol. Your not too far from me actually. IS fbody central still around?

LOL. Capn overkill here. No clue on FBC.


Getting no Ultra-view could be difficult...

Bah. If I order it without one, it better come that way. Ultra-View sucks. I'll wait a while to not have it.


Ah-h, yes ... just like old times. ^^


:cloud9:

LOL, I see things haven't changed that much around here.


I drilled holes in my camshaft when I learned it was rotating weight, but I then I saw the crarnkshaft and................................

I just ground the lobes off. Low weight smooth camshaft FTW! Best way to hot rod in the sandbox!

-chris

Chris0nllyn
01-03-11, 12:02 PM
Nice, and you're local!

Shon Herron
01-03-11, 12:08 PM
, patriot represents great value.lol.

trukk
01-03-11, 12:20 PM
lol.

heh, I wouldn't use their heads. No issues with their springs though. I plan to go AFR 205's most probabaly, and may swap over to some PAC behives.

Which heads would you recommend?

-Chris

Shon Herron
01-03-11, 01:03 PM
heh, I wouldn't use their heads. No issues with their springs though. I plan to go AFR 205's most probabaly, and may swap over to some PAC behives.

Which heads would you recommend?

-Chris
Any reason why you want to go with aftermarket heads?
We get great results from CNC'd GM castings from Advanced Induction in NC.
We use alot of the PAC springs too!!

Kenman
03-03-11, 05:11 PM
I just ordered the same underdrive pulley you mention from Texas-Speed. You mention that the belts they stock do not fit and you had to come up with a custom one. The picture link posted in your original posting doesn't work. Do you happen to have part numbers for those belts?

Thanks!!!
-Ken
2005 CTS-V

trukk
02-13-12, 11:26 AM
50K Mile update:No real problems. Car still runs great. Still daily driven (120k miles now). I have not replaced the springs (may go to PAC behives if/when I do.) No other engine mods since then.I did have to swap out an alternator. Not sure if it's related to the UD pulley (I didn't change the pulley on the alternator). If it goes out again, I may swap out the UD pulley.I guess if you plan it right, and spend the money up front, it will last.-Chris

75K mile update: Still haven't replaced the springs. No more alternator issues (must have been an anomoly). Just passed the emmisions test :D

Moral of the story: If you plan this stuff out, do it right, and get quality components....many years of great performance!

-Chris

trukk
05-18-12, 12:05 PM
Just bought some new springs (the replacements of the Patriot Gold Extremes).

I have them in a pile with a bunch of other stuf that needs to get installed (radiator, new brake disks, pads, still need new shocks.)

-Chris