: My first computer issue - ever



Lord Cadillac
04-22-08, 08:34 PM
Well, five months after I switched to the Mac from Windows, I've experienced my worst computer issue ever (and I've been using computers since the mid 80s). There was a firmware upgrade late last night. I went through the motions to install it - and after moving onto the last step, rebooting, that was it. My computer no longer worked.

So, I took it to the local Apple store this morning - where they tried a couple of things - to no avail. They told me they'd need to keep it and let their techs work on it. They did, to no avail. So now it gets shipped out.

They said something about over-nighting it to wherever it goes. I hope THEY don't take too long to fix it. And that THEY will overnight it back to the Apple store where I can pick it back up.

I believe they mentioned something about it needing a new logic board. So now I'm back on my Windows desktop for the time being..

This has put a small dent in my perspective about Apple products. I know things like this can and will happen from time to time - just in my 25 years of computing, it hasn't happened - until now five months into Apple ownership...

dkozloski
04-22-08, 09:05 PM
This is the kind of event that can happen with any brand of computer. I hope it ends well for you.

CIWS
04-22-08, 09:28 PM
Gigabyte used to build MBs with "Dual Bios" litterly two EEPROMs on the board so when you did a flash upgrade, if it went foul, you could still boot to your last working bios on a seperate chip. Some of the latest MBs (PCs) have recovery methods if you get a bad flash.
Out of all the MBs I've flashed (A BUNCH) I've only ever had one not post after the flash. It is a thing that makes you hold your breath the first time you go to boot the board, post flash. Sucks that it happened.

eldorado99
04-22-08, 09:44 PM
True enough... You are lucky this your first major issue...


This is the kind of event that can happen with any brand of computer. I hope it ends well for you.

Kev
04-22-08, 10:40 PM
I get your point Sal. It sucks! Well, look at it this way, at the least you saved a bunch of money because Macs cost much less than PC's ....... oh, wait a minute ....... I guess it's the other way around .......
OK, never mind ........

CadiJeff
04-22-08, 11:09 PM
despite what the propaganda would have you believe macs are no better than PCs they both screw up horribly on a regular basis. the big difference is when that happens with a pc chances are the repair can be done quickly locally and sometimes cheeply, with mac....not so much...hope you are in waranty! Good Luck

Brizzal
04-23-08, 12:09 AM
sry to hear sal.....thats why costco doesnt sell apple computers :)

thebigjimsho
04-23-08, 01:57 AM
Yeah, Apple sucks.:alchi:

Night Wolf
04-23-08, 02:33 AM
Wut!!11!! not on a Mac... dats da shiznit nothing ever goes wrong with them, you be crazy. Oh yeah, it's cause it has an Intel chip... thats why, see, had it been a real Mac, it would be the bestest computer in da world....peace Mac daddy dogg.

Lord Cadillac
04-23-08, 11:25 AM
It's the service, more than anything, that's bothering me. Yes, this could have happened to any computer. If it were a Dell, I'd have had someone here today (at my residence) to replace whatever needed replacing. Who knows when I'll get it back from whoever has it now...

JimmyH
04-23-08, 01:19 PM
Nothing wrong with Apple. It is one computer out of how many. I have had great luck with Dell though. Between home, office, and all my families computers (for whom I am their IT guy) I have used about 30 of them. Only one had problems, and I maintain it was the user, not the computer.

BTW Sal, OSX was great and all, but it was just too much for me to learn on a recreational computer. So for the last month I have been running Vista exclusively on it. And I just plunkered down $200 for a license. I hate giving money to M$.

Another BTW, Dell's customer service has gone down the chute IMO. Fortunately, I only needed them once, and I ended up figuring it out on my own anyway.

Kev
04-23-08, 01:53 PM
It's the service, more than anything, that's bothering me. Yes, this could have happened to any computer. If it were a Dell, I'd have had someone here today (at my residence) to replace whatever needed replacing. Who knows when I'll get it back from whoever has it now...Service can be everything. About 4 years ago the Toshiba laptop I used for business blacked out on me. I contacted Toshiba, they overnighted a shipping box to me which I packed the laptop into. I sent the computer out to their service center in Tennessee? on Monday and got it back fixed at no cost to me on Wednesday. Plus, I had phone numbers of technicians that I could call and talk to about the issue.

Good service can make a world of difference to the success and popularity of a company or product.

JimmyH
04-23-08, 02:07 PM
Service can be everything. About 4 years ago the Toshiba laptop I used for business blacked out on me. I contacted Toshiba, they overnighted a shipping box to me which I packed the laptop into. I sent the computer out to their service center in Tennessee? on Monday and got it back fixed at no cost to me on Wednesday. Plus, I had phone numbers of technicians that I could call and talk to about the issue.

Good service can make a world of difference to the success and popularity of a company or product.

Toshiba has changed. I wanted to ship my laptop, and they said no, I have to drop it off at one of their approved service centers. Of course this is the extended service plan, so i am sure it is run by a third party.

Top notch customer service is what made Dell the giant they are. Their computers used to be crappy, but their service was second to none. Now that they are big, they let the service slide.

Kev
04-23-08, 02:09 PM
The best Toshiba technicians are in Texas. If you want details shoot me a pm.

JimmyH
04-23-08, 02:14 PM
thanks, I already replaced it with a dell. As soon as I get it fixed, I am dumping it.

AMGoff
04-23-08, 05:54 PM
FWIW - Dell's service isn't worth diddly these days, UNLESS you pay extra at the time of purchase for one of their premium service contracts.

Anyway... all stereotypes aside... crap happens, regardless of any manufacturer. If it is indeed the logic board than it's a fluke... it was just crappy timing.

I don't want to sound like an annoying "I told you so" person... but you should never install something just because it pops up in the Software Update. There have been several different security updates or even an OS revision that I've skipped entirely simply because I've read reports of them causing people problems. Honestly, sincerely... it's always good to check them out before installing, no matter which platform you're on. I'm just overly cautious... and fall into the "If it's not broken, don't fix it" type mentality.

Just out of curiosity... before you took it to the Apple store, did you disconnect the battery and a/c for 10-20 minutes or so and then do a "hard" reset? Did you try booting with the extensions disabled by holding the shift key down? Did you try booting from your hardware test or installer disk? I have little experience with EFI... and there was never as many OF updates on the PPC Macs as their are on the Intel ones. If nothing else... the Intel Macs are still maturing as a platform... I remember dealing with many problems with some early PPC machines after their switch from the 68K architecture.

I just hope this doesn't sour your view of the platform... because from what I could tell, you were really enjoying it over the alternative. It's still under warranty and if it is indeed the motherboard, then knowing Apple, they'll probably just send you a new machine... with whatever new bells and whistles come with it.

I suppose just to make a CF-related analogy... If some mechanical fluke happened to your new Cadillac five months after you bought it and it had to go in for some warranty work... would it taint the entire brand for you, despite the fact you were enjoying it a lot more than the old Chevy you traded it in for?

I do feel bad for you though Sal... I know how sucky it feels to have you main computer crap out... whether it be a logicboard, harddrive, power supply... etc. Hopefully you'll get it back soon... and if I had to guess - they'll probably just ship the machine straight to your house.

dkozloski
04-23-08, 05:58 PM
Hopefully they'll transfer his data to the new machine although it's not bloody likely.

JimmyH
04-23-08, 10:09 PM
Every warranty or service plan I have ever seen states in bold letters "We are not liable for loss of data" or something similar.

Followed closely by "the warranty covers hardware failures; software failures are NOT covered."

dkozloski
04-23-08, 11:23 PM
Every warranty or service plan I have ever seen states in bold letters "We are not liable for loss of data" or something similar.

Followed closely by "the warranty covers hardware failures; software failures are NOT covered."
Since this was apparently a firmware failure it might get interesting.

thebigjimsho
04-24-08, 12:20 AM
The best Toshiba technicians are in Texas. If you want details shoot me a pm.Same for Gateway.


Overnighted my laptop to Texass on a Tuesday, they had it for about 2 hours, working on it for about 20 minutes before sending back out overnight on their dime. Had it back on Thursday.

dkozloski
04-24-08, 12:50 AM
I tore my HP laptop apart and fixed it myself. My dog chewed the keys off the keyboard and the latch on the DVD player fell apart. I found a used keyboard at a used parts place and I fixed the latch.

I fixed my old Sony Vaio laptop several times. My grandson poured water through it once and I had to replace the mainboard. Another grandson broke the LCD screen and I had to replace that. Another grandson dropped it and it flew completely apart so I threw it in the garbage.

There are a bunch of outfits on the web that strip out old laptops for parts.

JimmyH
04-24-08, 01:36 PM
I dropped off my Toshiba yesterday. I told them I tried three different windows installation disks, all resulting in BSOD. I tried the HDD recovery partition, which result in some hex code error. I even tried installing Ubuntu, which just kept freezing.

I get a call this morning telling me the diagnosis is that the OS needs to be reinstalled.:banghead:

Lord Cadillac
04-24-08, 01:46 PM
FWIW - Dell's service isn't worth diddly these days, UNLESS you pay extra at the time of purchase for one of their premium service contracts.

Anyway... all stereotypes aside... crap happens, regardless of any manufacturer. If it is indeed the logic board than it's a fluke... it was just crappy timing.

I don't want to sound like an annoying "I told you so" person... but you should never install something just because it pops up in the Software Update. There have been several different security updates or even an OS revision that I've skipped entirely simply because I've read reports of them causing people problems. Honestly, sincerely... it's always good to check them out before installing, no matter which platform you're on. I'm just overly cautious... and fall into the "If it's not broken, don't fix it" type mentality.

Just out of curiosity... before you took it to the Apple store, did you disconnect the battery and a/c for 10-20 minutes or so and then do a "hard" reset? Did you try booting with the extensions disabled by holding the shift key down? Did you try booting from your hardware test or installer disk? I have little experience with EFI... and there was never as many OF updates on the PPC Macs as their are on the Intel ones. If nothing else... the Intel Macs are still maturing as a platform... I remember dealing with many problems with some early PPC machines after their switch from the 68K architecture.

I just hope this doesn't sour your view of the platform... because from what I could tell, you were really enjoying it over the alternative. It's still under warranty and if it is indeed the motherboard, then knowing Apple, they'll probably just send you a new machine... with whatever new bells and whistles come with it.

I suppose just to make a CF-related analogy... If some mechanical fluke happened to your new Cadillac five months after you bought it and it had to go in for some warranty work... would it taint the entire brand for you, despite the fact you were enjoying it a lot more than the old Chevy you traded it in for?

I do feel bad for you though Sal... I know how sucky it feels to have you main computer crap out... whether it be a logicboard, harddrive, power supply... etc. Hopefully you'll get it back soon... and if I had to guess - they'll probably just ship the machine straight to your house.
I just realized that "logic board" means "mother board" in Apple World. Anyway, I have a backup drive that I use with Time Capsule. So if they send me a new machine or my old one back with nothing on it, that's fine. But how likely is that? I'd rather have my old hard drive back because there's a lot of information on it.

My Wife's Dell notebook needed a new motherboard. We called, they came the next day (with motherboard in hand) and fixed it. My computer never left my possession. If Apple had an option like that, I'd pay for it. I don't understand why they don't...

Oh and yes - I did all the tricks trying to get it started... I never install the updates without checking with the community at macrumors.com - to see if people are having problems.

JimmyH
04-24-08, 03:38 PM
Turns out my issue was a faulty memory module. I am assuming they mean one of the 512mb memory chips.

Kev
04-24-08, 03:46 PM
That would do it. (Yes, you assume correctly :cool2: )

JimmyH
04-24-08, 04:49 PM
You'd think I would have thought of that before dumping the computer off with them. Oh well. I guess that's what the extended warranty is for :D

AMGoff
04-24-08, 05:09 PM
I just realized that "logic board" means "mother board" in Apple World. Anyway, I have a backup drive that I use with Time Capsule. So if they send me a new machine or my old one back with nothing on it, that's fine. But how likely is that? I'd rather have my old hard drive back because there's a lot of information on it.

My Wife's Dell notebook needed a new motherboard. We called, they came the next day (with motherboard in hand) and fixed it. My computer never left my possession. If Apple had an option like that, I'd pay for it. I don't understand why they don't...

Oh and yes - I did all the tricks trying to get it started... I never install the updates without checking with the community at macrumors.com - to see if people are having problems.

Unless you specifically excluded any areas of you hard drive, Time Machine does a complete backup of your entire drive... So once you restore a new drive, it will have all of your information there.

AppleCare has it's good points, it's bad points, and it's weird points.... but I certainly wouldn't put their service in the same league as their computers, despite the fact that they've actually improved over the years when it seems some other manufacturers have had a decrease in their level of service. The basic warranty that comes with the computer is pretty much on par with the rest of the industry.... If you buy the extended AppleCare plan, you get the warranty extended to 3 years and you get free phone support extended beyond the 90 days. AppleCare's extended warranties actually do offer on-site repairs (here's the weird) BUT only for their desktops and only in certain areas (usually higher population areas). Their logic with not providing on-site service for their notebooks has largely to do with the Apple Stores... they figure most problems can be solved easily at your "neighborhood" store... and if it can't be, they'll send it off to Apple.

I don't personally agree with that service model... mostly because I find Apple's "Geniuses" to be anything but - they say they're all Apple Certified, but I think it's a crock... So compound that with the fact that they don't really stock any parts in the stores and the whole model is worthless when it comes to a hardware malfunction. If it malfunctions within the first month, I believe they'll replace it at the store on the spot.

I've only had three personal experiences with AppleCare... one was with an old iPod that they simply replaced. Another was with my brother's iMac, which an authorized Apple repair subcontractor came out and replace the faulty component (the built-in iSight). And the other was a few years back with the wife's G3 iBook... some models of which were notorious for motherboard, or "logicboard" failures (so much that they actually issued an extended service contract on them)... we sent it off and a couple days later we received a brand new machine back. I've actually heard of some other people who've received a new machine back rather than their old one.

I'd say they do it depending on the severity of the problem because all of their "newer" laptops are a real bitch to get into and work on... they're nothing like my old "Pismo" PowerBook G3, which I can completely disassemble and reassemble in under an hour. So it might just make more sense for them to just send out a new one sometimes.

Unfortunately though... it sounds like you just ended up with a fluke, because from everything I've read... the Core2 Duo machines seem to be pretty solid. It can happen with any manufacturer... but the timing just really sucked seeing as how you're a recent switcher. Like I said though... I just hope that it hasn't tarnished your view of the Mac in any way.

Lord Cadillac
04-24-08, 07:22 PM
This hasn't tainted my view of Apple computers - just their service. My computer arrived at wherever it goes today. Now they have to ORDER a part:

Step 2 - Service
On hold - Part on order (24-Apr-2008)

WTF?! They have to ORDER the PART?! How long do I have to be without this computer? This is how I make my living... As far as I'm concerned, Apple Service is the worst in the business.

Brizzal
04-24-08, 11:25 PM
my experience with apple service has sucked......i went threw 4 ipods all refurbs they gave me, and they all had the HD problems
got my zune for xmas 2 years ago and its never had a problem. +1 for microsoft

JimmyH
04-25-08, 12:44 AM
+1 for microsoft

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.................. .. ;)