: Maggie pulley change, want smaller size.



v10boost
04-21-08, 10:17 PM
Hello guys,

It has been about month after maggie install and I'm ready for more power. my car has standard pulley that maggie comes with and want to upgrade to smaller one. I have called the magnuson but they didn't have anything for it. Can someone direct me where I can buy smaller pulley for maggie.

Thanks

smackdaddy
04-21-08, 10:19 PM
pretty sure lindsay cadillac stocks pullies

StealthV
04-21-08, 10:22 PM
You'll need to grind the snout to clear the ID of the smaller pulley.

2.6" at SFP (http://www.southfloridapulleyhq.com/SFPH/ctsv/ps_mag_keyed_pulleys.htm)

It's not so much power but more of a shift in the torque curve towards lower rpm.

Luna.
04-21-08, 10:33 PM
You'll need to grind the snout to clear the ID of the smaller pulley.

2.6" at SFP (http://www.southfloridapulleyhq.com/SFPH/ctsv/ps_mag_keyed_pulleys.htm)

It's not so much power but more of a shift in the torque curve towards lower rpm.

He speakith the truth!

Read the last sentence many times! :D

I tell 'ya, you'll feel the additional rwtq though.

Another option is to go a larger crankshaft pulley, rather than a smaller blower pulley. It's a little trickier & much more expensive (especially if you change ALL of the pullies to 8-rib like I did), but (at least for me) well worth it, as I was suffering from belt slip something fierce. Further, the "grinding" to make it fit was kind-of lame.

Looking back, perhaps I should have just gone 8-rib all the way around, using the 2.6" pulley, & that might have worked nearly as well, but I'm more apt to not have belt slip with the 2.8" pulley and 8" crankshaft pulley.

(Note--if memory serves, the 8" crankshaft pulley has slightly higher belt speed, which resulted in a slightly better dyno results, but nothing too insane)

rand49er
04-21-08, 10:38 PM
... Another option is to go a larger crankshaft pulley, rather than a smaller blower pulley. ...ESC was getting $550 for 'em last I checked. Drives accessories a little harder, but not a concern IMHO. Plus, you'd get a lttle more boost than going to the 2.6" pulley without grinding anything and with less worry about belt slippage.

Luna.
04-21-08, 10:44 PM
ESC was getting $550 for 'em last I checked. Drives accessories a little harder, but not a concern IMHO.

That's a pretty good price! I seem to recall spending a little more.

As far as the accessories, I agree that it's a little harder, but shouldn't be anything to worry about. In theory, it should only be "harmful" at RPMs above, say, ~6k. Below that, it shouldn't be anymore stressful (rotation speed) than the stock size. Granted, it's spinning faster earlier, but that's the whole point...:lildevil:

v10boost
04-21-08, 11:21 PM
pretty sure lindsay cadillac stocks pullies

what pullies are you thinking? stock or supercharger?

v10boost
04-21-08, 11:23 PM
He speakith the truth!

Read the last sentence many times! :D

I tell 'ya, you'll feel the additional rwtq though.

Another option is to go a larger crankshaft pulley, rather than a smaller blower pulley. It's a little trickier & much more expensive (especially if you change ALL of the pullies to 8-rib like I did), but (at least for me) well worth it, as I was suffering from belt slip something fierce. Further, the "grinding" to make it fit was kind-of lame.

Looking back, perhaps I should have just gone 8-rib all the way around, using the 2.6" pulley, & that might have worked nearly as well, but I'm more apt to not have belt slip with the 2.8" pulley and 8" crankshaft pulley.

(Note--if memory serves, the 8" crankshaft pulley has slightly higher belt speed, which resulted in a slightly better dyno results, but nothing too insane)


That is exactly what i wanted to do. Power level is fine where it is, I want to bring the power band down little lower where I can use it more often.

v10boost
04-21-08, 11:23 PM
You'll need to grind the snout to clear the ID of the smaller pulley.

2.6" at SFP (http://www.southfloridapulleyhq.com/SFPH/ctsv/ps_mag_keyed_pulleys.htm)

It's not so much power but more of a shift in the torque curve towards lower rpm.

Do I need dyno tune after going with bigger crank pulley or is it ok?

v10boost
04-21-08, 11:26 PM
ESC was getting $550 for 'em last I checked. Drives accessories a little harder, but not a concern IMHO. Plus, you'd get a lttle more boost than going to the 2.6" pulley without grinding anything and with less worry about belt slippage.

Who is ESC? Do they only offer 8-rib crank pulley? How much is this 8-rib crank pulley and rest of the pullies going to cost me? Can I run bigger 8-rib crank pulley and smaller 2.6 blower pulley together?

Or is this going to be too much boost for stock short block?

Max-Q
04-22-08, 12:01 AM
Do you guys think a 2.85 pulley is worth the cost vs the standard pulley? My Maggie is on the way and I wouldn't mind changing out the pulley before I install everything. Would I need a new tune for 1 psi increase or will the rich off the shelf map be able to handle it until I can get a good tune?

Also, how common is belt slippage on a Maggie with the standard pulley? Or is it yet another one of those "depends on your car" that is so common with the V?

stkshkr
04-22-08, 03:28 AM
Do you guys think a 2.85 pulley is worth the cost vs the standard pulley? My Maggie is on the way and I wouldn't mind changing out the pulley before I install everything. Would I need a new tune for 1 psi increase or will the rich off the shelf map be able to handle it until I can get a good tune?

Also, how common is belt slippage on a Maggie with the standard pulley? Or is it yet another one of those "depends on your car" that is so common with the V?

Maggie comes with 2.8 pulley, if you go with a 2.6 you will be fine until you get a tune.

rand49er
04-22-08, 07:58 AM
Who is ESC? Do they only offer 8-rib crank pulley? How much is this 8-rib crank pulley and rest of the pullies going to cost me? Can I run bigger 8-rib crank pulley and smaller 2.6 blower pulley together?

Or is this going to be too much boost for stock short block?Did I type ESC? Should be ECS = East Coast Superchargers. (Personally, I think $550 is pricey. :()

I think it only comes 8-rib. Haven't done it myself, but I've heard you can still run it with a 6-rib setup. To change over all accessories to 8-rib might be costly ... I'd say go with the 2.6" front pulley at that point.

Theoretically, you'll get about 7.7% more boost with the 2.6" pulley (assuming no slippage), and a little over 8% more with the ECS crank pulley. You're probably still within the limits of the stock motor internals going either route. As the boost level exceeds about 8-9 psi, that's when you need to start worrying. My guess is that you'd be within limits at a 7-8 psi max boost from what I've read on this forum from guys who were doing this two and three years ago (trailblazers for sure!). Definitely listen to some of the others guys here who have far more experience than I in this area ... I'm sticking with 2.8 for the time being.

Seattle CTS-V
04-22-08, 02:42 PM
I just went to the 2.6 about 2 weeks ago. Never had it dyno'd w/ the 2.8 but here is my dyno with the 2.6. StealthV said there is more power to be had as this tune is a bit rich. I've been too lazy and having too much fun with the new power to send it back to him to fix. I'm sure I'm burning a bit extra fuel but what's the difference btwn 12.5 and 12 mpg anyway?

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a122/trohdy69/CTS-V/Dyno%20Day%2004-12-08/CTS-VDyno04-12-08.jpg

visionik
04-22-08, 08:27 PM
Luna, I'd love to hear any details you have on replacing all the pullies to 8-rib ones. Do you have any part #'s or URL's for the various pullies? I'd like to look into doing this myself. How easy was the swap?

Luna.
04-22-08, 11:20 PM
That is exactly what i wanted to do. Power level is fine where it is, I want to bring the power band down little lower where I can use it more often.

Well, I do believe that you will get some additional rwhp with a larger crankshaft/2.6" pulley (I think I got about ~20 rwhp), it's just not nearly the gain in rwtq that you'll get (~40-50 rwtq, if memory serves). It is very noticable, even part throttle.


Do I need dyno tune after going with bigger crank pulley or is it ok?

Personally, I would definitely get it re-tuned after that change, as I believe that to be a significant change that will probably throw off your A/F ratios.


Who is ESC? Do they only offer 8-rib crank pulley? How much is this 8-rib crank pulley and rest of the pullies going to cost me? Can I run bigger 8-rib crank pulley and smaller 2.6 blower pulley together?

Or is this going to be too much boost for stock short block?

Based on what Andy/A&A Corvette told me, I believe the larger crankshaft pulley is only available in the 8-rib format. Perhaps that has changed recently, but, when I purchased mine, it was the only option available.

Yes, you can run the 8-rib crankshaft pulley while leaving the other pullies 6-rib (you just don't use 2 ribs on the crankshaft pulley). It works, but it's definitely not ideal. I ended up completely throwing/spinning one belt and partially tearing another before I went to a complete 8-rib setup. I haven't thrown a belt since. Do NOT take this to mean that you will experience the same problem...just note that I did, which was exactly what prompted me to go to an 8-rib setup (which is a better answer anyways...)

As far as being too much boost or not, you just have to see how your motor runs both pre-and, especially, post installation of the pully to (somewhat) determine if it's too much boost or not. To me, I'm not so much worried about boost as I am cylinder pressure. In other words, if I was running, say, 15 lbs of boost, but the motor was only putting down, say, 440 rwhp (this is for illustration purposes only...), I wouldn't worry at all, as the cylinder pressures in an LS6/2 are probably not too high. On the other hand, if I was running 6 lbs of boost, yet the motor was pushing, say, 550 rwhp, yeah, I'd be much more nervous, as the cylinder pressures are clearly much higher/stressful in the latter situation.

Based on my boost guage, I get anywhere from 8-10 lbs of peak boost at WOT. At A&A, my car runs, say, 470rwhp/460rwtq on a very reasonable tune, as I specifically had Charlie tune it non-ultra-agressive. Am I pushing it? Probably a little, but Andy has only had significant problems when people are running 500+ rwhp on LS6s, not ~470, so I'm not too worried. Andy led me to believe that 470 rwhp for an LS6 is just not that bad, so I drive without too much worry about it blowing. He had other guys pushing it significantly over 500 and that's when the problems really started to show.

On top of that, I also run ~16 oz of Torco on each tank of gas to help prevent knock, which can be a killer, especially on FI motors.



Do you guys think a 2.85 pulley is worth the cost vs the standard pulley? My Maggie is on the way and I wouldn't mind changing out the pulley before I install everything. Would I need a new tune for 1 psi increase or will the rich off the shelf map be able to handle it until I can get a good tune?

Also, how common is belt slippage on a Maggie with the standard pulley? Or is it yet another one of those "depends on your car" that is so common with the V?

No, I don't think a 2.85 pulley is worth it. Check what you have though---if you have the pathetic 3.0" pulley, change that sucker to the 2.8" immediately and smile at the results...

Personally, I'd re-tune for any change in A/F ratio, but, perhaps, that is just me.

I don't believe that belt slip is common with the 2.8" pulley.


Luna, I'd love to hear any details you have on replacing all the pullies to 8-rib ones. Do you have any part #'s or URL's for the various pullies? I'd like to look into doing this myself. How easy was the swap?

It's funny you ask, as I plan to post a more complete thread talking about the stresses my maggie/engine puts on a few bolts on the air clearner via the "stock" air tube. When you change to an 8-rib setup, you have less room between the pullies and the air tube, so installing the "correct" hump hose becomes VERY important. Don't ask me how I know... :rant2:

In any case, I'd have to get with Andy to get the part #s for the pullies, as I do not recall him breaking them all out on the invoice.

For reasons that shocked him and myself, the pullies that apparantely go right on to a vette LS6 did NOT fit on my motor without grinding, which was lame, but they got them on and I haven't had any problems from that perspective.

Besides the grinding, Andy informed me that changing a vette's pullies was much easier than the V, especially since access to the front of the motor in my car (up from the bottom) is blocked via some metal/steel "shroud" and that the Vette doesn't have those challenges. As such, Andy had a much more difficult time installing those than he does on a vette, but I don't know if that makes it "hard." Is installing pullies on a vette very easy? I just don't know, nor do I have a common frame of reference. Apologies...

v10boost
05-06-08, 06:22 PM
Hello CF,

Thanks for your replys and I have come down to few options. My car currently makes 490rwhp on stock long block with cam and maguson @ 7psi. Car feels good but still not fast enough and lots of new cars are making that much out of box. So, car wants another 100rwhp or just make 600rwhp. 600rwhp= 720 crank hp at 20% drive line loss. There is no current production 4dr car makes this much out of box. I have talked to Jeff @ PSI and he thinks with around 12psi of boost and set of good heads will make at least another 100rwhp. also, meth injection will be installed for added insurance.

Upgrade maguson 112 to 112HH and swap rear pulleys to 1:1 $1495.00

Change all front pulleys to 8rib from east coast supercharging and do 2.8main pulley. $1500 from ECS

Set of heads and rockers $???

With rear 1:1 change and bigger 8rib crank pulley with 2.8main will probably going to make more than 12psi so I might use 2.9 or bigger main pulley to keep the boost at 12psi. at the end i am hoping for 600rwhp with 12psi boost and good set of heads and cam.

what are your thoughts?

StealthV
05-06-08, 07:39 PM
My thoughts - Stop the money pit now.

There's always something faster no matter how much money gets thrown at a V.

silverAg
05-06-08, 08:29 PM
Hello CF,

Thanks for your replys and I have come down to few options. My car currently makes 490rwhp on stock long block with cam and maguson @ 7psi. Car feels good but still not fast enough and lots of new cars are making that much out of box. So, car wants another 100rwhp or just make 600rwhp. 600rwhp= 720 crank hp at 20% drive line loss. There is no current production 4dr car makes this much out of box. I have talked to Jeff @ PSI and he thinks with around 12psi of boost and set of good heads will make at least another 100rwhp. also, meth injection will be installed for added insurance.

Upgrade maguson 112 to 112HH and swap rear pulleys to 1:1 $1495.00

Change all front pulleys to 8rib from east coast supercharging and do 2.8main pulley. $1500 from ECS

Set of heads and rockers $???

With rear 1:1 change and bigger 8rib crank pulley with 2.8main will probably going to make more than 12psi so I might use 2.9 or bigger main pulley to keep the boost at 12psi. at the end i am hoping for 600rwhp with 12psi boost and good set of heads and cam.

what are your thoughts?

your thoughts are appreciated since I'm trying to do the same thing but I'm kinda ahead of you since I have cams/meth injection/2.6 pulley...heads and rockers should be next

jbss71
05-06-08, 08:35 PM
mp122 :stirpot:

StealthV
05-06-08, 09:06 PM
Forget the 122, go TVS 1900 or 2300.

jbss71
05-06-08, 09:13 PM
Forget the 122, go TVS 1900 or 2300.you are talking money pit, but a tvs 2300 on stock pistons :duck:

v10boost
05-07-08, 02:45 AM
your thoughts are appreciated since I'm trying to do the same thing but I'm kinda ahead of you since I have cams/meth injection/2.6 pulley...heads and rockers should be next


Where did you put the other cam? i have one in the block but i'm sure where to put the second cam.

NormV
05-07-08, 10:45 AM
Nice new cam and acc for cheap:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=2017667

gauge hp
05-07-08, 11:43 AM
Hello CF,

Thanks for your replys and I have come down to few options. My car currently makes 490rwhp on stock long block with cam and maguson @ 7psi. Car feels good but still not fast enough and lots of new cars are making that much out of box. So, car wants another 100rwhp or just make 600rwhp. 600rwhp= 720 crank hp at 20% drive line loss. There is no current production 4dr car makes this much out of box. I have talked to Jeff @ PSI and he thinks with around 12psi of boost and set of good heads will make at least another 100rwhp. also, meth injection will be installed for added insurance.

Upgrade maguson 112 to 112HH and swap rear pulleys to 1:1 $1495.00

Change all front pulleys to 8rib from east coast supercharging and do 2.8main pulley. $1500 from ECS

Set of heads and rockers $???

With rear 1:1 change and bigger 8rib crank pulley with 2.8main will probably going to make more than 12psi so I might use 2.9 or bigger main pulley to keep the boost at 12psi. at the end i am hoping for 600rwhp with 12psi boost and good set of heads and cam.

what are your thoughts?


There's not too many 112's making 12lbs. of boost, if you you do get it, that poor little maggie going to being to be spinning an awfull speed and making lots of hot air. My IAT's with my old setup (Stock pullies, no meth were quite high,)

stkshkr
05-07-08, 12:59 PM
12 psi on stock motor = KABOOM
not enough fuel, stock pistons won't last long, etc,etc

NormV
05-07-08, 07:50 PM
The V accessories are closer to the block than the LS6 Z. Probably for space. Good news on the A&A 8 rib. Got a set to put on the Vette but decided the V needs to be faster when Procharged. Guess I be grinding afte V-palozza. :)

Norm

Well, I do believe that you will get some additional rwhp with a larger crankshaft/2.6" pulley (I think I got about ~20 rwhp), it's just not nearly the gain in rwtq that you'll get (~40-50 rwtq, if memory serves). It is very noticable, even part throttle.



Personally, I would definitely get it re-tuned after that change, as I believe that to be a significant change that will probably throw off your A/F ratios.



Based on what Andy/A&A Corvette told me, I believe the larger crankshaft pulley is only available in the 8-rib format. Perhaps that has changed recently, but, when I purchased mine, it was the only option available.

Yes, you can run the 8-rib crankshaft pulley while leaving the other pullies 6-rib (you just don't use 2 ribs on the crankshaft pulley). It works, but it's definitely not ideal. I ended up completely throwing/spinning one belt and partially tearing another before I went to a complete 8-rib setup. I haven't thrown a belt since. Do NOT take this to mean that you will experience the same problem...just note that I did, which was exactly what prompted me to go to an 8-rib setup (which is a better answer anyways...)

As far as being too much boost or not, you just have to see how your motor runs both pre-and, especially, post installation of the pully to (somewhat) determine if it's too much boost or not. To me, I'm not so much worried about boost as I am cylinder pressure. In other words, if I was running, say, 15 lbs of boost, but the motor was only putting down, say, 440 rwhp (this is for illustration purposes only...), I wouldn't worry at all, as the cylinder pressures in an LS6/2 are probably not too high. On the other hand, if I was running 6 lbs of boost, yet the motor was pushing, say, 550 rwhp, yeah, I'd be much more nervous, as the cylinder pressures are clearly much higher/stressful in the latter situation.

Based on my boost guage, I get anywhere from 8-10 lbs of peak boost at WOT. At A&A, my car runs, say, 470rwhp/460rwtq on a very reasonable tune, as I specifically had Charlie tune it non-ultra-agressive. Am I pushing it? Probably a little, but Andy has only had significant problems when people are running 500+ rwhp on LS6s, not ~470, so I'm not too worried. Andy led me to believe that 470 rwhp for an LS6 is just not that bad, so I drive without too much worry about it blowing. He had other guys pushing it significantly over 500 and that's when the problems really started to show.

On top of that, I also run ~16 oz of Torco on each tank of gas to help prevent knock, which can be a killer, especially on FI motors.




No, I don't think a 2.85 pulley is worth it. Check what you have though---if you have the pathetic 3.0" pulley, change that sucker to the 2.8" immediately and smile at the results...

Personally, I'd re-tune for any change in A/F ratio, but, perhaps, that is just me.

I don't believe that belt slip is common with the 2.8" pulley.



It's funny you ask, as I plan to post a more complete thread talking about the stresses my maggie/engine puts on a few bolts on the air clearner via the "stock" air tube. When you change to an 8-rib setup, you have less room between the pullies and the air tube, so installing the "correct" hump hose becomes VERY important. Don't ask me how I know... :rant2:

In any case, I'd have to get with Andy to get the part #s for the pullies, as I do not recall him breaking them all out on the invoice.

For reasons that shocked him and myself, the pullies that apparantely go right on to a vette LS6 did NOT fit on my motor without grinding, which was lame, but they got them on and I haven't had any problems from that perspective.

Besides the grinding, Andy informed me that changing a vette's pullies was much easier than the V, especially since access to the front of the motor in my car (up from the bottom) is blocked via some metal/steel "shroud" and that the Vette doesn't have those challenges. As such, Andy had a much more difficult time installing those than he does on a vette, but I don't know if that makes it "hard." Is installing pullies on a vette very easy? I just don't know, nor do I have a common frame of reference. Apologies...