: I sat in the Lincoln MKS yesterday



Lord Cadillac
04-20-08, 01:23 PM
Even though it's basically a Taurus, it's quite nice. It will Definitely have road presence. The interior and exterior is very nice. The leather is soft - like the leather in all Lincoln vehicles. It's a unique type of leather. Not of Lexus quality, but close. The only thing I found less than desirable was the center stack - it's boring. Otherwise, it's a very comfortable, VERY good looking vehicle with comfortable interior dimensions.

I'm sure the twin turbo v6 version of this car is going to be popular. I'll post the pictures I took soon..

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-20-08, 04:13 PM
MKS....is that the one based off the Five Hundred...oops I mean Taurus or the one that's debuting in '09?

Blackout
04-20-08, 06:20 PM
The MKS is so hot looking. I cannot wait for the TT 3.5 to get under the hood

Jesda
04-20-08, 06:42 PM
Its hot like a Hyundai!

caddycruiser
04-20-08, 07:32 PM
MKS....is that the one based off the Five Hundred...oops I mean Taurus or the one that's debuting in '09?

The "new" new Taurus will have the same platform & guts of the current Five Hundred/Taurus.

The MKS uses that same Volvo-derived platform as well, and just the 3.7L version of the 3.5L to start with. It's not at all just a reskinned Taurus/Sable, but shares guts like the Lexus ES does with the Camry...forgive the example, but it gives an idea. Looks nothing like a Taurus/Sable, though, especially in proportions and lines--or even, for that matter, the new-new Taurus in the spy pic.

LOTS of cool features too, like the keypad entry that "appears" on the pillar outside when you touch, and isn't just a button pod stuck on, as well as their latest in Sync, push button start, and other things. Should be a cool car, and the platform is great already...I'd be happy with the 3.7L, even with the Turbo version a year later.

Playdrv4me
04-20-08, 10:43 PM
A FWD Lincoln? Much like the MKZ, *DO NOT WANT*. FWD Cadillacs at least threw a V8 into the mix.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-20-08, 10:55 PM
Ohhhhhhhh, now I got it straightened out.

MKZ:
http://www.lincoln.com/mkz/img/main_ext_4.jpg

MKS:
http://www.cars.com/features/autoshows/2006/detroit/coverage/images/concept_Lincoln_MKS_frontangle_cs_430.jpg


These "alphabet soup" names are confusing. :o

Destroyer
04-20-08, 11:16 PM
A FWD Lincoln? Much like the MKZ, *DO NOT WANT*. FWD Cadillacs at least threw a V8 into the mix.Albeit a crappy one.:hide:

Destroyer
04-20-08, 11:21 PM
I dont like the styling of that Lincoln. As a matter of fact, I dont like the styling of ANY Lincoln since the Mark series that ended in '98. Had one of those the MKZ behind me today, front is ok, back end is ugly as sin. Anyway thats just my opinion. I really dont like the direction almost all car companies are going with nowadays (from a styling perspective) period but I gotta admit I'm strangley attracted to the Buick Enclave and I normally hate Buicks and never owned one.

caddycruiser
04-20-08, 11:36 PM
I dont like the styling of that Lincoln. As a matter of fact, I dont like the styling of ANY Lincoln since the Mark series that ended in '98. Had one of those the MKZ behind me today, front is ok, back end is ugly as sin. Anyway thats just my opinion. I really dont like the direction almost all car companies are going with nowadays (from a styling perspective) period but I gotta admit I'm strangley attracted to the Buick Enclave and I normally hate Buicks and never owned one.

You're not alone on Lincoln. Most people still consider them the "lost sheep" when it comes to styling and just figuring out what the heck they want their products to be. Cadillac decided on Art & Science, stuck to it, and had the engineering and parts to back the looks up, and look at them now. Lincoln? Lots of re-fascia'd Fords, with no real difference in mechanicals, or even the overall driving dynamics, but some kind of (again...no firm theme or shape) grille and the Lincoln interior.

The MKS certainly doesn't help a huge amount, especially in terms of being any kind of a breakout design, but at least it's probably the cleanest and most fresh and universally accepted Lincoln, offers the features expected in the class, and should have the dynamics to back it up. No big engine, at least to start, but whoopy doo, seeing such things even in luxury cars will soon be history again because of things like the upcoming DI Turbo V6 they'll use.

So, it's not a standout--at least not in the way the CTS was for Cadillac and completely turned them around--but it's another pleasant step. Well, if anything, that is. Nothing huge. Could stand to be bolder, but for a brand that has no clue about an identity, walking this line isn't terrible...maybe.

hueterm
04-20-08, 11:55 PM
Maybe they'll come up w/a ricer wannabe coupe like the CTC and their design problems will be solved !! !! !!

The pointy front end of that MKS w/the huge rear looks like a blinged up beady eyed 400# gal sucking on an unripe persimmon. And this thing was supposed to replace the Town Car at one point...? The Town Car front end would look better than what they did.

The Taurus and Sable are absolutely hot in comparison...and the MKZ as well. (And I think all 3 are acceptable at best...)

thebigjimsho
04-21-08, 12:09 AM
The pointy front end of that MKS w/the huge rear looks like a blinged up beady eyed 400# gal sucking on an unripe persimmon. And this thing was supposed to replace the Town Car at one point...? The Town Car front end would look better than what they did.
That car would be a disaster as a livery vehicle. It has a trunk opening the size of a Porsche 911. Good luck getting a set of golf clubs in there. Lincoln is Prattin' clueless...

thebigjimsho
04-21-08, 12:11 AM
The MKS is so hot looking. I cannot wait for the TT 3.5 to get under the hoodIf you think the MKS looks hot, then you must think the Buick LaCrosse is incredibly sexy. My gawd, and you're only 24? Lincoln took a decent design and did their trademark castration before release...

Destroyer
04-21-08, 12:12 AM
Cadillac decided on Art & Science, stuck to it, and had the engineering and parts to back the looks up, and look at them now. .
Dont like the Cadillacs either. Ok, I'll take a CTS V even though its semi-ugly just because of the drivetrain and 4 doors. Interior sucks too but its got a good heart.

thebigjimsho
04-21-08, 12:13 AM
Its hot like a Hyundai!That's an insult to Hyundai. At least the latest Hyundai styles are clean and linear, not a slab of shapes and inconsistent lines...

Destroyer
04-21-08, 07:36 AM
That's an insult to Hyundai. At least the latest Hyundai styles are clean and linear, not a slab of shapes and inconsistent lines...I'm am noticing public perception of Hyundai has changed a lot over the last few years. Who would have thought?. I remember when they just came out and much like the Yugo were the butt of almost every automotive joke. Today they are competing with and surpassing cars built by the likes of Toyota and Honda, etc. Impressive.

Blackout
04-21-08, 10:37 AM
If you think the MKS looks hot, then you must think the Buick LaCrosse is incredibly sexy. My gawd, and you're only 24? Lincoln took a decent design and did their trademark castration before release...

The LaCrosse looks alright, it mostly depends on the color IMO. I was digging the Park Avenue Ultra that was at the NYC auto show though. But the picture that was posted of the MKS in silver doesn't do it justice. The one they had at the NYC auto show was beautiful. If you haven't seen it in person then reserve your judgment until you do see it in person. I was iffy about it in the pics but once I saw it there was a huge difference. What I would love would be for the TT 3.5 version to come in AWD and with a stick shift option:bouncy: As for Lincoln's usual castration on their vehicles, ehhh.......it's a hit and miss thing. The new Navigator's exterior is ugly but the interior is beautiful. The MKX looks great in certain colors but looks ugly as sin in others. The one consistent that I do like with Lincoln is their interiors. Since I spend most of my time inside the car I'm much more worried about the interior then what the exterior looks like.

orconn
04-21-08, 11:14 AM
I followed one down the road the other day ......... took todays design cues and stuck on the car with little attention to taste or aesthetics. To be honest it reminded me of what Cadillac did to the Cavalier when it made it into the Cimmaron (sp?) back in the '70s!

Blackout
04-21-08, 11:19 AM
I followed one down the road the other day ......... took todays design cues and stuck on the car with little attention to taste or aesthetics. To be honest it reminded me of what Cadillac did to the Cavalier when it made it into the Cimmaron (sp?) back in the '70s!
The Cimmaron was from the 80's and to compare the Cimmaron to anything Lincoln has ever made is the ultimate slap in the face. The Cimmaron was nothing more then a rebadged Cavalier, I can't think of one Lincoln that was as blatant of a rebadge then the Cimmaron was. But are the MKS's even out yet?

EDIT: According to Lincoln the MKS isn't out until summer of '08

Lord Cadillac
04-21-08, 12:26 PM
Here are the pictures I took...

Lord Cadillac
04-21-08, 12:27 PM
And a few more... As you can see, Lincoln is overshadowed by a company that sells much hotter cars - just a few hundred feet away...

Playdrv4me
04-21-08, 01:10 PM
Well, seeing those pics, it almost makes me think of a Jaguar XF for the layperson. Sort of how the LS was to the Jaguar S Type in it's day.

Now obviously they are completely different platforms, but the sizes will be similar, as well as the slopy shapes. I have no doubt more than a few buyers will cross-shop these cars despite the driven wheel difference as well.

I give them props for really jazzing up that interior with MINIMAL use of the Ford parts bin and that cheap POS radio they stick in everything else. I also give them kudos for the full stitched leather dash components. Otherwise though, it is quite a snooze. On a more direct comparison, this thing is going to have a HARD time competing with the Hyundai Genesis, ESPECIALLY with its available V8.

Blackout
04-21-08, 01:34 PM
On a more direct comparison, this thing is going to have a HARD time competing with the Hyundai Genesis, ESPECIALLY with its available V8.I dunno. I don't think too many people will be cross shopping the two but we shall see. The TT version of the MKS will pwn the V8 version of the Genesis but it should be interesting to see as to the future of the Genesis sedan seeing that the Tau V8 was made for N/A applications as well as F/I applications as well as "future technologies" whatever that means. I guess Hyundai is the first company ready to go for when Flux capacitors make their way into cars lol

orconn
04-21-08, 01:40 PM
The Cimmaron was from the 80's and to compare the Cimmaron to anything Lincoln has ever made is the ultimate slap in the face. The Cimmaron was nothing more then a rebadged Cavalier, I can't think of one Lincoln that was as blatant of a rebadge then the Cimmaron was. But are the MKS's even out yet?

EDIT: According to Lincoln the MKS isn't out until summer of '08

I realize you are too young to remember such Lincoln rebadging of Ford models such as the wonderful Lincoln Versailles ('77-'79) a rebadged Ford Granada ('77'-'79). Or for that matter, the many Thunderbirds that were re-skinned as Continentals. It's misjudgements of the buying public like this that has lead to Detroits woes in the marketplace!

Blackout
04-21-08, 01:57 PM
Hey Sal, what's up with the Lamborghini dealership? Is it currently being built? Because the inside of it looks like it's empty

Blackout
04-21-08, 01:59 PM
I realize you are too young to remember such Lincoln rebadging of Ford models such as the wonderful Lincoln Versailles ('77-'79) a rebadged Ford Granada ('77'-'79). Or for that matter, the many Thunderbirds that were re-skinned as Continentals. It's misjudgements of the buying public like this that has lead to Detroits woes in the marketplace!

Oh I agree with you 110%. Every car company at some point has rebadged their cars to make them into something else. Hell the best and most recent example I can think of would have to be when GM and Toyota teamed up for a little while and they gave birth to this abortion, the Toyota Cavalier

http://members.shaw.ca/toyota_cavalier/files/page0_1.jpg

Jesda
04-21-08, 03:54 PM
As you can see, Lincoln is overshadowed by a company that sells much hotter cars - just a few hundred feet away...

http://www.savagesuzuki.com.au/images/core/image01-r.jpg

hueterm
04-21-08, 04:03 PM
The pics of the black one look better.

Lord Cadillac
04-21-08, 04:09 PM
Hey Sal, what's up with the Lamborghini dealership? Is it currently being built? Because the inside of it looks like it's empty
Just being built...

Destroyer
04-21-08, 04:20 PM
:hmm:I was wrong, I've never seen that model before, the Lincoln I saw was something different with big rectangular lights in the back and so forth. I may have seen this model on the streets but it looks so much like a Japanese car that I wouldn't be able to distinguish it as a Lincoln unless I saw the badging. Its not that bad looking I guess.

thebigjimsho
04-21-08, 11:21 PM
The LaCrosse looks alright, it mostly depends on the color IMO. I was digging the Park Avenue Ultra that was at the NYC auto show though. But the picture that was posted of the MKS in silver doesn't do it justice. The one they had at the NYC auto show was beautiful. If you haven't seen it in person then reserve your judgment until you do see it in person. I was iffy about it in the pics but once I saw it there was a huge difference. What I would love would be for the TT 3.5 version to come in AWD and with a stick shift option:bouncy: As for Lincoln's usual castration on their vehicles, ehhh.......it's a hit and miss thing. The new Navigator's exterior is ugly but the interior is beautiful. The MKX looks great in certain colors but looks ugly as sin in others. The one consistent that I do like with Lincoln is their interiors. Since I spend most of my time inside the car I'm much more worried about the interior then what the exterior looks like.I saw one in Boston and it was bleh. And again, the trunk opening was putrid. It will flop. As for the Navigator, unless they just redesigned the interior, that is also bleh. The retro gauges are about the worst thing I've ever seen in a modern automobile...

Blackout
04-22-08, 10:28 AM
I saw one in Boston and it was bleh. And again, the trunk opening was putrid. It will flop. As for the Navigator, unless they just redesigned the interior, that is also bleh. The retro gauges are about the worst thing I've ever seen in a modern automobile...

I just woke up so I'm still a little out of it. I'm assuming you mean the MKS where I bolded the font. I haven't seen the trunk open up or anything yet so I can't comment on it. But where are you guys seeing these things at? I'm guessing Sal saw one at a Lincoln dealership but any idea as to how the hell they got a hold of one so early?

thebigjimsho
04-22-08, 11:28 AM
The one I saw was at the New England Auto Show. And while they had it on display, you couldn't get in. But they had every door open, including the trunk. I know you and your dad could appreciate that if this car was ever considered as a livery offering, the trunk opening alone makes it an epic FAIL.

I hear the new Hyundai sedan has more interior room than a 7 series. If it has appropriate room and has an L option, it may be a viable candidate as my next sedan. The new DTS/STS is an option if RWD and big enough. And if the Town Car gets progressively worse, as it did from 2004 to 2007, I will NOT buy one again, even with the space and dependable drivetrain. Lincoln has cut corners and cut costs to the point where it's blatantly obvious. And this is a Wixom car, not an Ontario version...

Blackout
04-22-08, 11:37 AM
The one I saw was at the New England Auto Show. And while they had it on display, you couldn't get in. But they had every door open, including the trunk. I know you and your dad could appreciate that if this car was ever considered as a livery offering, the trunk opening alone makes it an epic FAIL.Besides the TC I don't see anything in Lincoln's stable that IMO would make a good livery car. But at the NYC auto show they had one on a turn table and the only thing that was open was the drivers side door so that sucks for me. I would have loved to gotten inside and check it out. What seems to be the problem with the trunk BTW? Not disagreeing or anything with you, I have yet to even see the trunk open so I dunno what the issue is.


I hear the new Hyundai sedan has more interior room than a 7 series. If it has appropriate room and has an L option, it may be a viable candidate as my next sedan. The new DTS/STS is an option if RWD and big enough. And if the Town Car gets progressively worse, as it did from 2004 to 2007, I will NOT buy one again, even with the space and dependable drivetrain. Lincoln has cut corners and cut costs to the point where it's blatantly obvious. And this is a Wixom car, not an Ontario version...As of right now the Hyundai Genesis would be my #1 sedan to check out as soon as it comes out. After seeing it at the NYC auto show I LOVE IT! As for the interior room I believe the Azera also has more interior room then the 7 series as well (I may be wrong but I think I remember reading that somewhere) as for an L option, I haven't heard anything about an extended version of the Genesis but if the sedan sells very good it would be in their best interests to look at the idea of an L version. It would be a great option for livery companies seeing that they are cheap and you also get the 10 year/100,000 warranty to boot. But I did get into a STS at the NYC auto show and I honestly wasn't impressed. The car looks huge on the outside but on the inside it felt cramped especially for a full size sedan. But there are so many options right now for damn near every catagory out there that it's hard to think of every option

thebigjimsho
04-22-08, 11:45 AM
The trunk opening is tiny. While the trunk size looks OK, it would be very difficult to get luggage in when it nears full.

And the rear end looks just like a Saturn Aura. Not saying that's bad, but...

Blackout
04-22-08, 12:14 PM
The trunk opening is tiny. While the trunk size looks OK, it would be very difficult to get luggage in when it nears full. Oh ok. Yeha, for livery vehicles you want a nice big old trunk so you can stuff the luggage in without any problems.


And the rear end looks just like a Saturn Aura. Not saying that's bad, but...Kinda sorta

Night Wolf
04-22-08, 12:21 PM
The Town Car really is the last of its kind :(

That MKS looks good tho.... man this MK-stuff is annoying..... gotta say tho, seeing the direction of the new Lincoln, not saying it's bad, but it makes me apperciate my '96 more... last generation to carry on real Lincoln styling from the 70's, I like it.

Blackout
04-22-08, 12:34 PM
The Town Car really is the last of its kind :(

That MKS looks good tho.... man this MK-stuff is annoying..... gotta say tho, seeing the direction of the new Lincoln, not saying it's bad, but it makes me apperciate my '96 more... last generation to carry on real Lincoln styling from the 70's, I like it.

You can thank BMW and Mercedes for all of these dumb letters and number combos as names for cars. As for the TC it really is the last of it's kind, but I guess with time comes change. If they would give the TC a better motor I think that would make a decent difference in what people think about the car. I haven't really followed the TC all that much so I have no idea as to what changes have been made with the car over the years

The Tony Show
04-22-08, 12:49 PM
Every time I see a Lincoln I'm amazed at how butt ugly today's Lincoln product is, from the oddball exteriors to the strange, upright vertical lines of the interior. I won't even go into the whole Ford/Mazda platform sharing issue....

Blackout
04-22-08, 12:56 PM
I won't even go into the whole Ford/Mazda platform sharing issue....You act as if platform sharing is a Ford only thing

c5 rv
04-22-08, 01:06 PM
I have a MKZ and also like the MKS. However, I'm not crazy about the big-fat-strip-of-wood-across-the-dashboard look in both my MKZ and MKS. At first I thought it looked OK. But, over time it just looks out of place, like someone decided to add a piece of household baseboard to the dash.

The Tony Show
04-22-08, 02:34 PM
You act as if platform sharing is a Ford only thing

Not to the extent that an entire brand is built using it. I know where you're going with this, so I'll save you the energy of typing it- The CTS, STS and SRX are all unique Cadillac vehicles, built on an exclusive chassis with unique HVAC controls, Navigation systems, dash layouts, etc. Even the XLR shares frame rails only with the 'Vette, using a unique engine, interior, suspension, body panels and everything. The entire Lincoln lineup is nothing more than an appearance package for Fords and Mazdas.

Hey- there's a good idea: Drop the Lincoln brand name and Dealership network and just start offering a $15,000 "Lincoln Appearance Package" on Fords.

:lol:

MauiV
04-22-08, 02:49 PM
As a person that gets Ford products at employee pricing I drive a Cadillac.

The current exterior designers at the Ford Motor Company are LOST. Their engine department is just as lost, they cant get 300 HP out of an engine without a blower. For the past decade or so I have prefered their interiors (especially Lincolns) to GM and Chrysler products. Now that GM is getting away from the Rubbermaid/Fisher-Price interiors I think they have a definate advantage over the 2 other domestic brands in product design.

The only Fords I would currently drive is a Super Duty Diesel truck and maybe a Navi.

The MKZ is HORRID. One of the worst rear views on the road today and just a plain, plain car (AWD is the ONLY thing I like about it). The MKX, just as bad. Tailights are attrocious and the grill is just UGLY. Whats worse is the Edge is a much better looking vehicle at 2/3rds the price. They are even trying their damndest to destroy the Navigator.

Ford better release the Interceptor and Lincoln MKR without many changes to the concepts if they want any chance at my potential business. They FINALLY get some exterior designs worth noticing but I doubt they ever make it to the showroom.

Lord Cadillac
04-22-08, 04:18 PM
Now that GM is getting away from the Rubbermaid/Fisher-Price interiors I think they have a definate advantage over the 2 other domestic brands in product design.

I'm glad to see my "Fisher Price" analogy is catching on across the internet. :p

I've always liked Lincolns 'almost' as as much as Cadillacs. Even as much as I'm not crazy about the direction Cadillac has taken (with the exception of the Vs), I can't dislike them. Same goes for Lincoln. I have a hard time not liking Lincolns. But it's shameful to be sharing platforms with MAZDAs. And it does appear that Lincolns are now simply Fords with some extras. I agree with Tony that they should just do away with the brand and make the "Lincoln Appearance Package". It's ridiculous, but that's basically what they're doing.

I'm not sure what's changed with the Town Car since 2004. I mean - I SEE changes.. I thought the updates were for the better.. What happened that made the Town Car worse?

Jesda
04-22-08, 05:03 PM
The funny thing is that Lincoln sales volume is up, but its at the expense of the brand's long term future. The MKZ is a cheaper car and the Navigator is packed with incentives. People aren't willing to spend money on a new Lincoln unless its a bargain.

orconn
04-22-08, 05:11 PM
I know very little about Town Cars. I have ridden in a few and have driven some several years back. They obviously are useful and favored by the livery services and those that are in need of a driver to make business appointments in NY, LA and D.C. There definitely is a need for such a car, but private, non-commercial ownership seems to be dwindling as the true anti-boomer generation dies off. Cadillac had their executive "special" sedan a fews years back but it didn't seem to go anywhere. And Cadillac has no presence among "Head of State" transportation ......... except for our own President ( and he damned well ought to drive American!) ...... although being familiar with many of D.C.s better residential neighborhoods, I'd say the rest of his regime prefers German makes.

It will be interesting to see whether the Queen and her government stay with Jaguars now that they will be an Indian make.

Somebody's got to make a car suitable for chauferred travel that doesn't cost over a hundred grand when armoring is not required!

Destroyer
04-22-08, 06:00 PM
I'm glad to see my "Fisher Price" analogy is catching on across the internet. :p

I've been using that analogy in regards to GM products (especially S10's and Astros) since before you were born Chadly. Damn I feel old.:alchi:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-22-08, 06:03 PM
That was Sal, I'm Chad. I think he predates me by atleast 10 years. ;)

thebigjimsho
04-22-08, 07:06 PM
I'm not sure what's changed with the Town Car since 2004. I mean - I SEE changes.. I thought the updates were for the better.. What happened that made the Town Car worse?I'm just copying and pasting from another thread I responded to:

"My 2004 was reliable and had little minor issues. My 2007 had its blend door actuator replaced at 8,000(!!!) miles. The driver's seat is broken(and before anyone questions my build, my 2004 went 218,000miles without an issue), the serpentine belt was missing a rib, the climate control blows air erratically, the drive-by-wire is pure torture(throttle tip-in and off is NOT smooth and it stutters at low speeds), the computer thinks I need washer fluid (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/#) when it's full and states I need an oil change at less than 3,000 miles, the suspension has been dialed in to be way too stiff with very slow rebound on the rear suspension(if you don't go really slow on speed bumps the rear crashes down), the leather is a drab grey instead of black, the steering wheel (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/#) is changed in that it's harder to grab comfortably and the wheel's buttons are cheap an inconsistent in their function, there is no double visor shade nor Homelink, a headlight went out at 33,000 miles and the car sways much worse than the '04. And I paid an extra $1,500 over my '04 for that POS.

Some companies try to mask where they cut corners and/or costs. And some make it obvious."


Let me also add that the climate control doesn't blow temperature evenly and the car came with rear vanity mirrors that wouldn't snap closed and because they were loose, the vanity lights always stayed on.

Of every chauffeur who drives an '07, they all notice that it's inferior to earlier years...

MauiV
04-22-08, 09:54 PM
I'm glad to see my "Fisher Price" analogy is catching on across the internet. :p


Ive called it that since Bose stereos with the HUGE buttons were put in Corvettes and Silverado radios were in 2 pieces (dumbest design EVER).

I am in a loaner 07 Grand Prix right now (the f'in shifter in the V took a header, weirdest thing ever) and the knobs and buttons on that thing are absolutely ATTROCIUS. I have hated those orange lights since the 1st BMW I ever road in and I still hate it today. The speedo is bigger than Flavo Flavs clock but it is getting 27 mpg but had a hard time passing a handicap van today. I couldnt ever own that car, and its f'in white to top it off.

Jesda
04-22-08, 10:04 PM
I despise the orange in my BMW. Its Halloween every damn day...

But its fun, like trick or treating. :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-22-08, 10:23 PM
It's even more fun if you're Herbert the Pervert.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/image.php?u=28058&dateline=1185828972

Destroyer
04-23-08, 12:02 AM
That was Sal, I'm Chad. I think he predates me by atleast 10 years. ;)Holy chit Chad, I thought it was you. Yeah, I'm about the same age as Sal so its close as to who came up with that analogy first.:helpless:

Lord Cadillac
04-23-08, 12:54 AM
Damn. It's a small world. Fisher Price interiors suck. We can all agree on that. :p

Night Wolf
04-23-08, 03:26 AM
I know very little about Town Cars. I have ridden in a few and have driven some several years back. They obviously are useful and favored by the livery services and those that are in need of a driver to make business appointments in NY, LA and D.C. There definitely is a need for such a car, but private, non-commercial ownership seems to be dwindling as the true anti-boomer generation dies off. Cadillac had their executive "special" sedan a fews years back but it didn't seem to go anywhere. And Cadillac has no presence among "Head of State" transportation ......... except for our own President ( and he damned well ought to drive American!) ...... although being familiar with many of D.C.s better residential neighborhoods, I'd say the rest of his regime prefers German makes.

It will be interesting to see whether the Queen and her government stay with Jaguars now that they will be an Indian make.

Somebody's got to make a car suitable for chauferred travel that doesn't cost over a hundred grand when armoring is not required!

'98+ is the "current" generation.... of the notable year changes, 2003 it got the face lift and rack & pinion steering, other then that in 2006? the interior was updated again to match Ford current theme with the big bulky steering wheel and vertical-inspired interior.... something that is neat tho, Town Car finally got a tachometer, tho all the guages are analog... still has the digital driver/fuel center.

I really don't think much is in the way to improve, as it is slated to end production, same with adding a bigger engine... I think this year the options on a new Town Car are extremely limited, not even a moon roof is avalible.

I like my '96 alot... inside and outside better then the '98+ generation, tho of course the '98+ have the "new" thing going for them.... but I prefer the outside styling of my car, and much perfer the interior with the "organic" designed and full digital (thats a biggie!) dash.

I thought about a current (2005-2007ish) Town Car way in the future.... they would definitly be a great used car bargain, as the TC is now.... but I dunno if I want to do the TC thing over again.... the new ones, other then being new, really don't appeal to me more then my '96 does... in fact when I list the points side by side, I like the '96 more... but... who knows... if I want a big car for the family (not a van or SUV) and highway driving, theres really no better choice for a no-frills, reliable and nice car.

It's all about the marketing tho..... Ford just gave up on the Town Car... sad tho.... I guess Cadillac did it in 1996 though, atleast the TC managed to get another ~15yrs of life...

Jesda
04-23-08, 06:00 AM
I want to get a retired livery fleet Town Car as a spare road tripper. Usually they're mechanically sound, and Ford's leather holds up pretty well.

Night Wolf
04-23-08, 06:21 AM
I want to get a retired livery fleet Town Car as a spare road tripper. Usually they're mechanically sound, and Ford's leather holds up pretty well.

eh, you would probably be better off finding a well-maintained private owner car.... but thats just me. Livery cars get alot of use and abuse, plus most are basic models, the Executive or whichever is cheapest, the lower grade seats, sound system, less options etc.....

They make awesome road trip cars.... tho that is expected :) It's neat to drive a modern version of a type of car that is just not around anymore.

thebigjimsho
04-23-08, 09:45 AM
I want to get a retired livery fleet Town Car as a spare road tripper. Usually they're mechanically sound, and Ford's leather holds up pretty well.


eh, you would probably be better off finding a well-maintained private owner car.... but thats just me. Livery cars get alot of use and abuse, plus most are basic models, the Executive or whichever is cheapest, the lower grade seats, sound system, less options etc.....

They make awesome road trip cars.... tho that is expected :) It's neat to drive a modern version of a type of car that is just not around anymore.Well, I wish you were in the market 7 months ago. The TC mechanically is bulletproof, although the electronics are typical Ford, ie a pain in the ass. I could have gone private sale and got $12-13G for my '04 w/ 218,000 miles. Instead, I went to the dealer and they got on the phone with their wholesaler. I got a check for $9,500 the next day. But the car was in very good condition. Always try to find a car that's owned by an independent, not a company. You've got a better shot of finding a quality model.

thebigjimsho
04-23-08, 09:58 AM
'98+ is the "current" generation.... of the notable year changes, 2003 it got the face lift and rack & pinion steering, other then that in 2006? the interior was updated again to match Ford current theme with the big bulky steering wheel and vertical-inspired interior.... something that is neat tho, Town Car finally got a tachometer, tho all the guages are analog... still has the digital driver/fuel center.

I really don't think much is in the way to improve, as it is slated to end production, same with adding a bigger engine... I think this year the options on a new Town Car are extremely limited, not even a moon roof is avalible.

I like my '96 alot... inside and outside better then the '98+ generation, tho of course the '98+ have the "new" thing going for them.... but I prefer the outside styling of my car, and much perfer the interior with the "organic" designed and full digital (thats a biggie!) dash.

I thought about a current (2005-2007ish) Town Car way in the future.... they would definitly be a great used car bargain, as the TC is now.... but I dunno if I want to do the TC thing over again.... the new ones, other then being new, really don't appeal to me more then my '96 does... in fact when I list the points side by side, I like the '96 more... but... who knows... if I want a big car for the family (not a van or SUV) and highway driving, theres really no better choice for a no-frills, reliable and nice car.

It's all about the marketing tho..... Ford just gave up on the Town Car... sad tho.... I guess Cadillac did it in 1996 though, atleast the TC managed to get another ~15yrs of life...I appreciate the 90's TC for that clean, classic executive look. The '98 TC was WORLDS better in ride and handling over the previous model. The previous model sacrificed EVERYTHING to get a squishy ride. The '98 was able to keep a soft ride but also control body motions much better. However, it had that goofy Batman look and interior and trunk room was sacrificed greatly. Until the L. And the ONLY good thing about the digital dash was that you could black it out when you need to speed with a client...

The '03 and newer are that much better in the ride and handling dept...except for '07. My '04 rode much better. The new one is too stiff. The look of the '03+ is perfect to me. A natural, modern progression of the '97. As for the options, there are few on the Executive Series. You can't even get navigation. So I had my own in-dash installed...

Playdrv4me
04-23-08, 12:05 PM
The look of the '03+ is perfect to me. A natural, modern progression of the '97. As for the options, there are few on the Executive Series. You can't even get navigation. So I had my own in-dash installed...

I agree, the Cartier/Ultimate models will offer alot of value for the money in the used market in a few years. Those had Nav, Xenon headlights, Sunroof and everything else available, and of course the Cartier also had the L model you mentioned.

Also the thing you said about a privately owned car is very true. It gives me some comfort that your TC made it to 218k and was an 04. I'm currently looking at Jesda's parents 2004 LX470 with a whopping 192k on it, but they are METICULOUS with their car's maintenances and the thing looks brand new. Tell you what though... if there's 2 cars on this planet I would trust to do 300k a Town Car and a Land Cruiser would definitely be them.

orconn
04-23-08, 01:34 PM
[QUOTE=Jesda;1492970]I despise the orange in my BMW. Its Halloween every damn day...

The first car I remember with the orange lighting was the 1979 Datsun (Nissan) 280Z. I really disliked it then and to this day haven't change my mind. There must be some advantage to it as far as night vision goes, but the aesthetic aspect would cancel any benefits for me.

Night Wolf
04-23-08, 05:55 PM
I appreciate the 90's TC for that clean, classic executive look. The '98 TC was WORLDS better in ride and handling over the previous model. The previous model sacrificed EVERYTHING to get a squishy ride. The '98 was able to keep a soft ride but also control body motions much better. However, it had that goofy Batman look and interior and trunk room was sacrificed greatly. Until the L. And the ONLY good thing about the digital dash was that you could black it out when you need to speed with a client...

The '03 and newer are that much better in the ride and handling dept...except for '07. My '04 rode much better. The new one is too stiff. The look of the '03+ is perfect to me. A natural, modern progression of the '97. As for the options, there are few on the Executive Series. You can't even get navigation. So I had my own in-dash installed...

Hmmm, general thought on the Lincoln site is that the ride, and espeically seat comfort on the '98+ is not as good as '90-'97.

Although '90-'97, there are two sub categories... '90-'94 and '95-'97. the seats in '90-'94, especially Signature and Cartier were much softer... the classic American "sink in" seats, while my '96 is more modern seats that you sorta sit on. Also, in '95 some of the suspension was revised to give a firmer ride... the '90-'94 had the classic marshmellow on a pillow ride... my '96 dosen't have that, it dosen't really float, it is smooth, but dosen't float. On top of that, they offered either the Ride Control Package, or Touring package, my car has the Ride Control Package, which adds stiffer shocks and springs, along with thicker sway bars, aux p/s cooler and lower gearing.... so it really dosen't have a real boaty ride, but in the turns it is surprising for a Town Car :)

I agree, '03+ does look really good. I used to like the '98-'02 styling alot, but when compared to the '03+, not so much.... they are still awesome cars, and will make a great used car bargin in the future.... pick up a now new or 2 year old TC in about 10yrs from now for next to nothing!

As for the digital dash... it's personal preference... I really like digital dashes, so for me, that is a major bonus... pretty much any car with a digital dash is a step up in my book.... not everyone likes them tho :)

thebigjimsho
04-24-08, 12:08 AM
Hmmm, general thought on the Lincoln site is that the ride, and espeically seat comfort on the '98+ is not as good as '90-'97.

Although '90-'97, there are two sub categories... '90-'94 and '95-'97. the seats in '90-'94, especially Signature and Cartier were much softer... the classic American "sink in" seats, while my '96 is more modern seats that you sorta sit on. Also, in '95 some of the suspension was revised to give a firmer ride... the '90-'94 had the classic marshmellow on a pillow ride... my '96 dosen't have that, it dosen't really float, it is smooth, but dosen't float. On top of that, they offered either the Ride Control Package, or Touring package, my car has the Ride Control Package, which adds stiffer shocks and springs, along with thicker sway bars, aux p/s cooler and lower gearing.... so it really dosen't have a real boaty ride, but in the turns it is surprising for a Town Car :)

I agree, '03+ does look really good. I used to like the '98-'02 styling alot, but when compared to the '03+, not so much.... they are still awesome cars, and will make a great used car bargin in the future.... pick up a now new or 2 year old TC in about 10yrs from now for next to nothing!

As for the digital dash... it's personal preference... I really like digital dashes, so for me, that is a major bonus... pretty much any car with a digital dash is a step up in my book.... not everyone likes them tho :)We had this one Town Car, a '95 I believe, that wasn't black. It was dark blue, rode a little lower and a little stiffer, had firmer shifts and was a rocket. Car #22.

As for the '98, it was definitely a firmer ride. Better for the driver. But while firmer, it was more refined. The '98 didn't bounce uncontrollably on large freeway dips. It handled much better. But it was still comfortable for the client. I also liked the seats. At least for a couple years before they offered power recline. The seats with a manual lever for the recline didn't need the extra motors underneath and sat lower to the floor. Much more comfortable.

Night Wolf
04-24-08, 09:11 AM
Did that car that rode firmer and felt faster have the 16" slotted wheels (standard Cartier wheels) There is a picture of them in my "celebrating one year" thread.

If so, those wheels along with the 225/60 tires were also part of the Ride Control package... perhaps that car had it?

Hmmm... see my car dosne't bounce much at all... alteast to me, compared to the FWD GM cars, it rides softer, but compared to the RWD DeVille/Fleetwood, it rides alot firmer.

I dunno, seems like these 90's Town Cars are a hit and miss when it comes to ride... '90-'94 is like a whole different car then '95-'97 when it comes to seat and ride comfort/handling... and then with the different handling packages etc... my TC does NOT have the pillow on a marshmellow ride that I thought it would (that I sorta wanted) but I have grown used to it now... but even with the very soft riding Goodyear Assurance Comfortreds, it'll take turns pretty fast, and be in full control. Every other '90-'97 TC I was in before I test drove then to buy one, was a '90-'94.... I remember the cars riding super soft... like 70's land yacht soft, and thats what I thought I would be getting with the '96, but I guess between the changes in '95, plus the ride control package, it made a big difference... cause the car rides nothing like I remember those '90-'94's riding.

maybe thats why the seats sit too high, because of the power recline? I did test drive a '97 Executive and the seat was lower, like GM low... the Executive had manual recline, my Signature has power recline/power lumbar.... maybe that answers my question on why the seat sits so high... that stinks though, as I like the power recline.

I'm sure the '98+ would quickly grow on me if I had one.... but when I look at mine and the newer ones next to each other, I like the '96 more in almost every category... I was looking at an '04ish TC at the dealer, and it was nice, but when I got back in my '96... I dunno, I guess I just like the styling more, plus the digidash :) I'd like to look at an '06?+ TC in person tho with the tach, see how I like the new interior.

thebigjimsho
04-25-08, 01:53 AM
Yeah, that's a complaint I've had about the Town Car seats for awhile is that they sit too high. With the motors for the power recline, they have to raise the seat. If you can find an older TC with manual recline, you'd like the seats better...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-25-08, 03:40 AM
My ideal Town Car would be a 1994 Signature Series in Black with a tan (parchment ;) ) leather interior. Or perhaps with a burgundy leather interior..... Or heck, I think 1994 was the last year you could have the white leather interior.

Those seats.....are just to die for.
http://i2.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/ea/36/0044_12.JPG

Just like this, but two years newer.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-LINCOLN-TOWN-CAR-SIGNATURE-SERIES-PRISTINE_W0QQitemZ170211257846QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3 1851QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Because if I was to buy a Town Car, I would want it to be the most extravant, plush, comfy, over the top, baroque Town Car imaginable. Forget "roadability" or "handling"....it's all about the bounce. :cool2:

Night Wolf
04-25-08, 06:30 AM
My ideal Town Car would be a 1994 Signature Series in Black with a tan (parchment ;) ) leather interior. Or perhaps with a burgundy leather interior..... Or heck, I think 1994 was the last year you could have the white leather interior.

Those seats.....are just to die for.
http://i2.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/ea/36/0044_12.JPG

Just like this, but two years newer.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-LINCOLN-TOWN-CAR-SIGNATURE-SERIES-PRISTINE_W0QQitemZ170211257846QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3 1851QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Because if I was to buy a Town Car, I would want it to be the most extravant, plush, comfy, over the top, baroque Town Car imaginable. Forget "roadability" or "handling"....it's all about the bounce. :cool2:

Sadly thats the exact ride/seat comfort I had in mind when I got the '96..... I don't want to say disapointed..... but it took a while to get used to the way my car rides. But, yeah, of those era cars I've been in, you sink in the seats and the car just flat out floats... just like they did in the 70's :)

I wanted the soft ride, hence my choice in tires, which really helped to soften the ride at the expense of some handling... but at the same time, I like my car having the ride control package, so I don't want to start swapping out parts.

Yeah, the seat height is one of my biggest complaints overall about the car, well, I'm used to it now, but still, it is all the way down, and I still feel it's too high.... all my GM cars I was able to really get it low.

Only seats with manual recline are executive, I don't want to swap those into my Signature... lesser quality and more bland pattern... ah well....

I'd like to drive a '94 Signature like pictured to compared ride and seat comfort sometime.

The good thing is, you can pick these cars up pretty cheap, especially '90-'94.... find one with the air springs bad and the back end is nearly dragging on the ground... people can hardly give them away.... $80 for a coil spring conversion, or about $300 for a complete compressor, dryer and both air springs and you are as good as new... it's not that hard to do either. I was thinking about maybe doing that... once you get the hang of these cars and know the little tricks to working on them, they really aren't all that bad.

thebigjimsho
04-25-08, 12:04 PM
My ideal Town Car would be a 1994 Signature Series in Black with a tan (parchment ;) ) leather interior. Or perhaps with a burgundy leather interior..... Or heck, I think 1994 was the last year you could have the white leather interior.

Those seats.....are just to die for.
http://i2.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/ea/36/0044_12.JPG

Just like this, but two years newer.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-LINCOLN-TOWN-CAR-SIGNATURE-SERIES-PRISTINE_W0QQitemZ170211257846QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3 1851QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Because if I was to buy a Town Car, I would want it to be the most extravant, plush, comfy, over the top, baroque Town Car imaginable. Forget "roadability" or "handling"....it's all about the bounce. :cool2:I HATED the tiny mirrors, the low-rent Ford steering wheel that I also didn't like in my SHO, the ugly dash, ugly gauges and the everlit CEL...nevermind those seats were probably only comfortable for midgets...oh wait...

thebigjimsho
04-25-08, 12:06 PM
I like the seats in newer TCs better. And what I really like is the single, large center armrest, instead of "Captain's chairs" type armrests. Much more comfortable and supportive for long seat times...

thebigjimsho
04-25-08, 12:15 PM
Now hear this:

I was at the dealer this morning to get my driver's seat fixed. While in there, I asked the asked the service advisor what the difference was in the suspension from my '04 to '07. He told me that what Ford decided to do(gasp!) was to fix a problem they were having for the TCs that were being stretched for limos. Their springs and bags were having problems supporting the weight on a longer, heavier limo.

Because they don't allocate cars directly from the factory to limo conversion companies, they decided to give heavy duty(aka STIFF) springs and bags to EVERY TC that rolled out of Wixom. EVERY SINGLE ONE. I always thought my '07 rode a little higher. Now I know why.

Ford is clueless. The limousine industry is changing rapidly. The longer TC limos have taken a dramatic hit over the last decade. Large SUVs do the gruntwork a 6 passenger limo used to do. Executives don't want to flaunt money. And the larger, more exciting Hummer and SUV limos have eaten the previously popular TC 9-12 passenger, and longer, limos. So for an ever shrinking market, they decided to change every suspension that rolled out of Wixom before they shut down production.

Don't get me wrong, the suspension isn't truck stiff. I still have people tell me how smooth the TC is. But it is still drastically different and almost every chauffeur and TC enthusiast notices. And being so anal about a car I live in every day, it drives me crazy.

Night Wolf
04-25-08, 04:23 PM
Heh, what year did that start?

Lord Cadillac
04-25-08, 04:31 PM
I thought the 1990 Town Car would have the softest, floatiest ride being that it was basically a 1989 with a new shell.. Am I wrong to think that? What is the SOFTEST riding Town Car? And how does it mask bumps compared to a late 90s Fleetwood Brougham or, say, Lexus LS430?

Night Wolf
04-26-08, 07:38 AM
1990 has a different suspension and a whole different front end then '91+.... and, it has the 302 (5.0) instead of the 4.6.... which alone has it's own little cult following.... personally I prefer the 4.6/4R70W combo... but thats just me... oh, plus 1990 has full metal bumpers front and rear, '91+ they went to plastic bumper covers, look the same tho.

But, I am not sure if 1990 ride smoother per say, I will say if you want THE most softest-riding and most plush seats Lincoln since anything since the 70's, then you would want a '93-'94 Signature/Cartier, the '90-'94 suspension rides the smoothest and those seats are the best there was.

also, on '90-'94 the rear doors, the glass was framed out and had the smaller window within the door, which I think sorta looks odd because the Town Car already has the opra window.... but... the window goes down all the way, much like '94-'99 DeVille, I think that is really cool. '95-'97, like mine, is one-piece glass in the rear window, IMO it looks a whole lot better, more sleek, to go along with the sleeker '95-'97 style, but, the window, like most cars, only goes down about 2/3 the way due to clearance issues.

Based on what I read about the Town Cars, and what I remember riding in the '90-'94 style.... I'm willing to bet that a '90-'94 Town Car will ride smoother then any 90's Cadillac or Lexus.... '95-'97? I dunno.... I know any factory 90's era Fleetwood Brougham will ride smoother then my car.... but onto of the suspension being changed a bit in '95, my car has the handling package, so it isn't a real fair comparison.

Basically, if you want the flat out most overly soft riding and plushest Town Car, but something modern (not the 70's) then really look at '93/'94 Signature/Cartier... I am sure '90-'93 are just as good, I just hear people talking about those two years as being the most plush.... plus in '93 IIRC the grille was changed to not be AS bad as it was.

But, if you want a sleeker package that, IMO looks a whole lot better inside and out, as well as has more options and toys, then '95-'97 is the way to go... for me, between the, IMO very awesome interior, as well as the vastly improved front end, jewel-style headlights and neat grille... that alone was enough to get me into the newer era.

Dunno why, maybe because of the more bold look, but despite being the same car.... '90-'94 style seems to have more of the "mafia" thing going for it, while the '95-'97 is much sleeker and modern looking... still, either of them, especially black, is pretty much instant access into the Mafia anyway... I hear the comments from time to time.

Like any car, they have their quirks.... but these old Panther cars seem to have problems that don't require either a ton of money or the need to go to the dealer... maybe time consuming, but all doable.

-'90 with the 5.0 has the AOD trans and is known for going thru TV bushings, which, if not taken care of soon, will trash the trans.
-'91-'95 4.6 is known for valve steam seals going bad... car will still run, and really for quite a long time, it'll just burn oil, blue smoke and all.
'96/'97 4.6 had the cracking intake manifold, but improved valve steam seals to address the burning oil problem... hit or miss, most have probably been changed by now (mine was) but either way you can tell as soon as you pop the hood when looking at cars. despite all the bad said about the plastic intake manifold, is IS supposed to improve both performance and MPG over the older design.

Then of course pretty much across the board on the 90's TC... the rear air springs everyone loves to complain about... not all that much money nor very hard. Blend Door Acutators and heater cores both like to go out... the BDA is only about $70 and the heater core (use OEM!!!!!!!!!!!!) is about $50, but both require the dash to pretty much come out. Now that I've did it 3 times, it's not THAT bad, but really is imtinidating at first.... it goes back to those not expensive nor overly hard, but just time consuming... Ford wants about $1200 to replace the $70 BDA.

Also, for some reason these cars, like all Lincolns like to eat thru door hing pins and bushings... if a door is sagging, thats why.... Ford only sells the whole hinge, as it's really not serviceable... but to replace the $100 hinge, guess what you need to do? Remove the whole dash :) Even then I still coudln't find the bolt inside.... soultion? buy a dremel, support the door, cut the pin in half, hammer out the 2 pieces and get the $8 HELP pin and bushing kit for a full size Bronce (forgot the p/n off hand) it goes right in, pin is slightly long but no biggie... perfect match.

Also, the power windows, Ford uses nylon plugs between the regulator gear and the motor shaft, these get trashed and then the window stops working and the motor still turns... multiple fixes for it, again, not too bad, worst part is, if it's the first time, you gotta drill out the rivets in the door, which isn't all that bad. I did all mine 3 times before I got a soultion that works, and will keep working.

As for the front end, the cars like to eat thru all front end parts, especially ball joints and sway bar links, next up would be idler arm, then tie-rods/pitman arm. Also, front rotors will warp, but '98+ brakes which have dual piston caliper instead of single, and 12" rotors instead of 10" not only put an end to warper rotors, but give the car one heck of a boost in stopping power. This swap is next on my list, but until the Isuzu is running, I really don't want to disable the car.

Thats pretty much it... may sound like a lot, but compared to engine replacements or expensive suspension systems or paying over $100/hr on labor because you can't even work on your own car... it's not too bad. Ask me how I know about all those common problems ;) :) Thats what put a sour taste of the car in my mouth for a while, ALL that, and then some, was wrong/broke on my car when I bought it.... previous owner(s) just let it all stock pile, then must have traded it in.

I can fix mechanical stuff tho, the biggest thing was, the car didn't (and dosen't) have a spec of rust on the underbody, it all looks new... coming from NY, that alone speaks more then words alone can describe. Also, there was no body damage, not even a door ding on the whole car... which, was impressive... and on top of that, with the exception of only 2 or 3 very small areas, there is no blemishes on the paint... interior... with the exception of some normal Lincoln wear on the driver seat, looks new...

And, looking back, yeah it stinks having to do all that work, but first, it wasn't a whole lot of money, but really... I know it is done, and done right, with the best quality parts avalible. What that means is, now with the car having 110k miles (most those repairs were done before 100k) and pretty much all the not only wear items, but common problem areas on these cars has now been addressed, hopefully my car has many more years and plenty of miles ahead of it until it needs something major... like I said, only exception is the brakes, which, when the Isuzu is running again, the car is getting a total brake-make-over.... then the cosmetic issues will get addressed, then the car retires from constant, non-stop daily driver duty :)

Night Wolf
04-26-08, 07:57 AM
Also, something neat to ponder...

'95-'97 front end CAN be swapped onto a '91-'94, and maybe a '90 without too much work... you just need a new bumper (metal bumper support and cover) grille and headlights, and I don't remember if you need the fenders or not, but the hood IS the same... and since the colors really didn't change, find one at a junkyard and you can do it cheap. But, it can be done, which is exactly what these guys did... and IIRC from what I heard, they used the old bumper support, not a new one, which is why the front bumper dosen't fit perfect... The body side mouldings are different, but still blend well, tail lights are different between the two sub generations, but that dosen't matter.

USZARLgMl6o

the '90-'94 interior isn't REALLY bad, but compared to the '95-'97. IMO it just isn't as nice. As was mentioned, the low rent Ford steering wheel that our most bare bones F-150 work truck has, really dosen't cut it... BUT it was the last Lincoln to have the throw back interior, the classic 3-window gauges, so yeah, it's cool in that essence, but otherwise IMO the new interior is a whole lot better. '95-'97 digital dash looks cooler IMO, plus the numbers/letters are all in italics, which is neat.

But, thats what I would do if I had a '90-'94 and found good front end parts at a junkyard.... personally that fixed the biggest problem of the car... then, if I was shooting for the smoothest, most plush Town Car, I'd deal with the older interior and just enjoy the ride.

Either way, unless you find an extremly mint, low mileage, or flat out cheap example... really stay away from Executive model, and in fact in the early 90's there was the base "no name" model even below Executive.... not that they are bad, but they are very basic, have nearly no options at all, and most things even standard on most TC (memory seat and digital compass etc...) on my '96, they didn't have, plus a very basic and not as comfortable seat. Thats just me tho... personally too many features and options are not on an Executive to make it not worth while to me, unless like I said there was a car that was just flawless in every way, in colors you really liked and for a good price. Otherwise a Signature or Cartier is the way to go... a full loaded Signature (such as mine) can be optioned basically the same as a Cartier without all the Cartier badging.

And this is the best part about these cars, reguardless of years....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-LINCOLN-TOWN-CAR-CARTIER-SUNROOF-HEATD-LEATHER-54K_W0QQitemZ170212519464QQcmdZViewItem

For less then the cost of a brand new Kia Rio (Americas cheapest car) you can get that.... full loaded, top model, mint conditon, low miles.... I mean really, these things are just execlent used car bargins.

I know alot of people don't like the '98-'02 styling... I used to like it alot more, and in a way, still do... it have a more rich and fancy style to it in a way, while '03+ sorta looks like a new Grand Marquis on-coming... in fact my biggest gripe with the '98-'02 style was the lack of hood ornament on the car, but a '90-'97 hood ornamnet can be installed without much work, it looks factory, and completes the look..... thats a really nice example of just how good the bodystyle can look.

Newer, maybe more expensive looking? Yes... but I still like the lines and boldness of my '96 better.... Chad said it perfectly about the '90-'97 TC as well as the W126 and '77-'92 RWD DeVille/Brougham..... all three cars have the long sleek and long look, while the newer models look bloated in comparison... and thats exactly it.

I will say tho, I have nothing agains the '98+ style, and if, by the time I am done with my '96, when ever that may be... if I am really in the mood for basically a newer version of the same exact type of car, then I would definitly consider one... just awesome, awesome used car bargins... but I have a feeling I'd get a used Saturn Sky Redline when they really go down in price before another Town Car... but... really can't beat them for what they are.

thebigjimsho
04-26-08, 11:50 AM
Blend door actuators are the everlasting question that eludes Ford. Mine failed on my '07 at 8,000 miles. My '04 had 2 replaced.

Pre '98 TC would warp rotors on a whim. I once had the rotors and pads replaced and after a night driver had the car, were warped again. I actually brought out the other drivers and showed them how to brake without warping, pulsing and planning on how to use your brakes. I had warping problems on my SHO until I got PF carbon metallic pads. So I convinced my boss to get those on the TCs. That definitely helped.

And the air bags. They wore out pretty quickly. But they were cheap to replace if you knew where to get them and did the work yourself. However, Ford has done a great job in improving the bags. My '04 lasted to 218k. Now, the compressor did need to pump them up more often than new, but not much. I still can't believe that Ford sent out every Executive TC with heavy duty springs because of a few limo conversions...

MauiV
04-26-08, 01:48 PM
Blend door actuators are the everlasting question that eludes Ford.

My LS lost its blend air doors at 85,000 on an August day. Thats when the V became a daily driver and the LS hit the bricks.

thebigjimsho
04-26-08, 02:04 PM
Ford's quality sucks when it comes to electrics and air conditioning components...

MauiV
04-26-08, 03:42 PM
Like I have said before: The only Ford I would own is a SuperDuty and maybe a Navi. I have preferred their interiors but the exterior design and the engine performance of they latest models leave a lot to be desired.

I think they HAVE to make the Interceptor as is and also recapture the mid size family car market they lost. The current Taurus/500 isnt the car for it. Its horrible.

Ford Motor Company put to many eggs into the large SUV basket and fuel prices have killed that but the Firestone/Explorer fiasco sent them plummeting into the abyss.

Oh yeah, they should fire every designer on the current Lincoln teams.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-28-08, 05:40 PM
Another reason why I'd take a 93-94 Town Car over a 90-92 is because in 1993, they changed the HVAC Control so it used buttons and had a digital display of the temperature, instead of the older setup, where they had sliding switches and no digital display of exterior or interior temp. I believe that setup dated back to like 1981, in Lincolns and Mercs together.

Night Wolf
04-28-08, 09:36 PM
Another reason why I'd take a 93-94 Town Car over a 90-92 is because in 1993, they changed the HVAC Control so it used buttons and had a digital display of the temperature, instead of the older setup, where they had sliding switches and no digital display of exterior or interior temp. I believe that setup dated back to like 1981, in Lincolns and Mercs together.

Yeah, same here, I like the digital too... then in '96 they updated the EATC system to look alot better too.... I think they are interchangeable though, not postive.

the '90-'92 did still have outside temp however, it was added as a selection on the message center.

MachX
05-03-08, 11:52 PM
A FWD Lincoln? Much like the MKZ, *DO NOT WANT*. FWD Cadillacs at least threw a V8 into the mix.
That 3.7l V6 will have at least 270hp/270lb feet of torque, prolly smoke the tires off my old 4.9 v8 with much improved fuel mileage :P, the following EcoBoost version will be a GDI twin turbo with 'at least' 400hp. Current test mules are apparently cooking the body work of the car hence the later introduction to work the bugs out. Nice to see some life in Ford's engine design.