How are the maps updated in the NAV system for the CTS? Are there update disks available from GM or can it be downloaded from somewhere? The NAV cannot find my home address on my street for some reason (it thinks my house is about 1/4 mile from where it actually is), and the street has been around for about 15 years. My TomTom One can pinpoint the address with no problems. I would have thought these maps would have been updated to 2008 versions by now (?).

Anyone ?

The Nav updates will be done at the dealer - they will have a master and copy it down to the cars from what i hear.

NAV systems can have a problem finding exact street addresses because of the way it calculates where a particular number might be on the block. The alogrithm is easily fooled. City blocks that are larger or smaller then usual will confound it nearly every time.

I once heard something that might be utter BS, but I was told that for
security reasons a GPS unit will never exactly pinpoint a location correctly.

For instance, sitting in my driveway the GPS unit tells me my house number
is 10 digits below what it should be.

I once heard something that might be utter BS, but I was told that for
security reasons a GPS unit will never exactly pinpoint a location correctly.

For instance, sitting in my driveway the GPS unit tells me my house number
is 10 digits below what it should be.


Sounds like a prolem, not an intentional security issue. Telenav on my Sprint phone puts me at the door I am searching for. What would be the point of Nav?

As mentioned in my OP, my TomTom takes me right to my house - to the doorstep. Do GPS NAV devices not use common "master" maps from somewhere? :confused:

As mentioned in my OP, my TomTom takes me right to my house - to the doorstep. Do GPS NAV devices not use common "master" maps from somewhere? :confused:

Well, sorta.

There are TWO "master" map providers....
NavTeq and Tele Atlas.
Tom Tom, after using them for years, just purchased Tele Atlas and NavTeq was just purchased by Nokia. (Look for Nokia to enter the portable Nav biz.......)

So your TomTom uses the Tele Atlas and GM uses NavTeq. (NavTeq also supplies servces to OnStar...turn by turn for instance)

Like ANY large complex maps there are mistakes on both.... ever see some mistakes in the Rand McNally Road Atlas? I have.

So in this instance Tele Atlas and your Tom Tom are the more accurate...... somewhere else it will be the other way and in the overwhelming majority of the cases they will be equal.

Well you can fix the issue for now. There's an easy way to set the point that you are currently at as an address. Alternatively, you can also point to the map, find your house, and set that as the address (if you're not at home when you do it). I don't remember the details, but I'm sure you can figure it out if you try. I know the feature exists.

How are the maps updated in the NAV system for the CTS? Are there update disks available from GM or can it be downloaded from somewhere? The NAV cannot find my home address on my street for some reason (it thinks my house is about 1/4 mile from where it actually is), and the street has been around for about 15 years. My TomTom One can pinpoint the address with no problems. I would have thought these maps would have been updated to 2008 versions by now (?).

Anyone ?

From the ol' reliable 2008 CTS Navigation manual (page 2-44), you will find exactly what you need to do.

If you don't want to go hunt down your manual, go to this site: https://www.gmnavdisc.com/overview.do. You will need your VIN number.

From the ol' reliable 2008 CTS Navigation manual (page 2-44), you will find exactly what you need to do.

If you don't want to go hunt down your manual, go to this site: https://www.gmnavdisc.com/overview.do. You will need your VIN number.
I had already checked the website previously - 2008's are not listed (yet) and my VIN is not recognized. Probably not updated until the end of the model year.

I had already checked the website previously - 2008's are not listed (yet) and my VIN is not recognized. Probably not updated until the end of the model year.

Sorry--I was trying to answer your questions in your OP, "How are the maps updated in the NAV system for the CTS? Are there update disks available from GM or can it be downloaded from somewhere?"

Reading that did not indicate you "had already checked the website previously" because then you would've known the answer to your question already... :rolleyes: :thumbsup:

RQ - no offense taken. I figured someone here on the site might have some additional "inside information" not found in the manuals. :) :thumbsup:

Well you can fix the issue for now. There's an easy way to set the point that you are currently at as an address.

Yeah, you just press the "Add" button on the Nav display to add your current location to the address book. It brings up the edit screen, so you can set it as a favorite or change the icon or whatever. You need to be stopped before it'll allow you to edit the name from their generated one (e.g. "Point 02 - 4/20/08") to whatever you want (e.g. "Home sweet home")

I'd love to see a future CTS support updates via OnStar download. They could update the Nav DB, the Gracenote DB, the Nav system firmware, etc. THAT would be a compelling reason for an OnStar subscription...

Given the multi-jurisdictional nature of the Metro DC area, how does the system determine which signal is utilized for the weather information displays? Is it possible to manually reconfigure to a different weather reporting datastream? If not, is it possible to force an update of whichever is the currently read datastream?

It seems to take an inordinately long time for the weather reporting functions to stabilize and update as opposed to the traffic data displays which lock on and update virtually instantaneously.

Thanks in advance.

Well, sorta.

There are TWO "master" map providers....
NavTeq and Tele Atlas.
Tom Tom, after using them for years, just purchased Tele Atlas and NavTeq was just purchased by Nokia. (Look for Nokia to enter the portable Nav biz.......)

So your TomTom uses the Tele Atlas and GM uses NavTeq. (NavTeq also supplies servces to OnStar...turn by turn for instance)

Like ANY large complex maps there are mistakes on both.... ever see some mistakes in the Rand McNally Road Atlas? I have.

So in this instance Tele Atlas and your Tom Tom are the more accurate...... somewhere else it will be the other way and in the overwhelming majority of the cases they will be equal.
The maps for my STS NAV are supplied by Tele Atlas.

Yes, you are right. I keep forgetting that the STS and DTS use a Japanese Navigation aid.
I still find that weird.
But it is true, and the company name is Denso (Big GM supplier) , which uses Tele Atlas.

I keep thinking CTS when I think of Cadillac.
And the CTS Uses a NAV built by Alpine Electronics of America and uses NavTeq.

And NavTeq still provides the Turn by Turn mapping for On-Star....even in your STS.

I have no problem with NavTeq. It powers Google Maps and TeleNav on my cell, both of which rock.

Since we're already off topic, I'll ask a nav question for the experts here.
I live in Ontario, Canada, and my car is coming from New York area - what do I have to do to get the nav to work here properly? or nothing?

Thanks,
NVES

I use the world's quickest weather update. Look out the window!!!

How are the maps updated in the NAV system for the CTS? Are there update disks available from GM or can it be downloaded from somewhere? The NAV cannot find my home address on my street for some reason (it thinks my house is about 1/4 mile from where it actually is), and the street has been around for about 15 years. My TomTom One can pinpoint the address with no problems. I would have thought these maps would have been updated to 2008 versions by now (?).

Anyone ?
The gps is junk. Mine is all but unusable. Most addresses here in Roswell, New Mexico can't be found. It will get several blocks from the address and the voice will say something like no information available for this area. This will be a street that has been there for 30 years. I showed dealership what it was doing and they told me they would try to find out what the problem is. They checked another one on the lot and it does the same. I can't beleive someone at Cadillac doesn't know how to fix the problem. I can pull out my Garmin 330c and it will take me anyplace in town!!! The car is a new 2008 I have had about a month.

The gps is junk. Mine is all but unusable. Most addresses here in Roswell, New Mexico can't be found. It will get several blocks from the address and the voice will say something like no information available for this area. This will be a street that has been there for 30 years. I showed dealership what it was doing and they told me they would try to find out what the problem is. They checked another one on the lot and it does the same. I can't beleive someone at Cadillac doesn't know how to fix the problem. I can pull out my Garmin 330c and it will take me anyplace in town!!! The car is a new 2008 I have had about a month.
Roswell, New Mexico must be a real jerkwater town. My STS will take me right to the sewage treatment plant in Fairbanks, Alaska. The message you're getting is for areas without map data coverage.

...Most addresses here in Roswell, New Mexico can't be found...
Well, there are now two things Roswell, New Mexico is famous for: this problem and another famous one. (Hint: July 7, 1947) Come to think of it, they might be related...:-)

My STS will take me right to the sewage treatment plant in Fairbanks, Alaska. The message you're getting is for areas without map data coverage. You would think by now they would have map data coverage for pretty much everywhere.... :annoyed:

What gets me is a $200 gps will get me anywhere and my high dollar gps in the caddy won't. The dealership so far has been no help. The funny thing is, the gps map shows the streets, it just won't tell you how to get there. Have any of you guys had any luck calling one of the phone numbers to Cadillac for help? If so what number do you suggest as a starting place?
Thanks

"The funny thing is, the gps map shows the streets, it just won't tell you how to get there."

Ahhh. That tells me the the Map is OK, it's the OS running on the Alpine that is at fault. And that also makes some sort of convoluted sense to me. Alpine makes a fine HU, but are not exactly in Garmin's league when it comes to GPS.

I've talked to Alpine. But not very long and not very very successfully. They absolutely refuse to assist with questions about their stuff.
Call Cadillac they say.
But they have no good # either.

The dealer is little to no help. They swap out units if they stop working, but as long as it is doing the same thing as the other units on his lot, he won't do that and has no way to go further.
Maybe eWill can chime in about what kind of training they recv on the Alpine unit. But I think I know............

I have the multi thousand dollar CTS NAV, but I carry my Nuvi 350 for serious GPS work.

We received our first real training on Nav systems last month. They have only been out for what... about 8 or 9 years now?
It was actually a good course with a lot of good information but it was under an hour long.

GM farms these systems out to contractors. They build the radios and Lord knows why each builder uses some different software. In a way it is good since some nav systems are sadly outdated and lacking in features. Imagine if they locked in to one deal and used something like the XLR nav? Of course it would be better if they used the same in all of them and it was a newer version like the '08s.
The '08 CTS has the latest stuff available for us. I haven't had a chance to really use one. I have still only worked on about 3 of these cars for mostly minor issues.

I suspect it will be almost another year before updates are out for this system. It is less than a year old and even if you get an update, who's to say it will improve coverage in a fairly small desert town? It sure could... but...

I am told the updates will come on a DVD and be a one time load into your CTS (the data is stored on the hard drive). The Nav Disc center will be in charge of distribution so keep watching there.

The gps is junk. Mine is all but unusable. Most addresses here in Roswell, New Mexico can't be found. It will get several blocks from the address and the voice will say something like no information available for this area. This will be a street that has been there for 30 years. I showed dealership what it was doing and they told me they would try to find out what the problem is. They checked another one on the lot and it does the same. I can't beleive someone at Cadillac doesn't know how to fix the problem. I can pull out my Garmin 330c and it will take me anyplace in town!!! The car is a new 2008 I have had about a month.I wouldn't think it's a Caddy issue. Sounds more like the NavTeq issue. They haven't digitized the roads in your area yet. They might show on the map, but they have not been digitized in for exact location. Until Navteq adds your roads to their database, you're going to be out of luck.

You'll find that a lot of roads will show up on the maps, as I think they use satellite imaging to get that data. However, unless they have digitized in the roads exact locations... you won't be able to do direct navigation using the software. You'll have a visual estimation of where you are.... but no exact route guidence will be avablible.

Thanks for the input guys. There is still no excuse for a company like GM to put out something like this. I have tried 3 different low dollar gps units and ALL OF THEM will take me right to the address I put in them! I wouldn't have bought the option had I known it didn't work.
Thanks

Thanks for the input guys. There is still no excuse for a company like GM to put out something like this. I have tried 3 different low dollar gps units and ALL OF THEM will take me right to the address I put in them! I wouldn't have bought the option had I known it didn't work.
Thanks
Again,it's not a GM issue... it's a NavTeq issue. GM doesn't digitize the roads. Different companies have different data. It's unfortunate for you that NavTeq doesn't have the roads digitized in your area, but in other areas they do where the competition doesn't.

Actually, They may have your area digitzed now... updates for the map normlly come out every year or so and normally cost about 125 for the update (not sure how GM handles this).

The good thing for the protable units is that most of them can be updated via the internet (normally for free). They tend to have much more current information. The bad part is that they look ugle as hell (at least to me) suctioned cupped to the window and if you leave it in your car, it's likely to get stolen and screen size it typically smaller.

The OEM units in the car tend to be much more integrated and looks more like part of the car. It also isn't stolen out of the car when you park it. The bad part is the cost to upgrade data and the non-portability of it along with the cost.

Bathel,

Sorry but you are wrong. It is GM issue. We purchased the car form GM. Not from NavTech. I have had a number Garmin GPS systems with NavTech maps and even the old one would take me to some areas. The CTS says “no guidance provided” even though I can see the streets/roads.
As I said before – GPS in the CTS has fantastic graphics, bet I have ever seen. However, the route engine is so so. It is slow, fails to recalculate routes and has no coverage in areas here it should. I just hope the next upgrade will change this things. I do not want to carry my Garmin Nuvi with me when I drive CTS…..it is simply stupid!


Come on GM, get it fixed!

Bathel,

Sorry but you are wrong. It is GM issue. We purchased the car form GM. Not from NavTech. I have had a number Garmin GPS systems with NavTech maps and even the old one would take me to some areas. The CTS says “no guidance provided” even though I can see the streets/roads.
As I said before – GPS in the CTS has fantastic graphics, bet I have ever seen. However, the route engine is so so. It is slow, fails to recalculate routes and has no coverage in areas here it should. I just hope the next upgrade will change this things. I do not want to carry my Garmin Nuvi with me when I drive CTS…..it is simply stupid!


Come on GM, get it fixed!GM doesn't make the nav unit... No Guidance provided = Roads not digitized by Navteq in the map revision you have installed in your car. The Car Nav system is functioning the EXACT way it was designed to. It is not a "problem" as you describe it. My Acura and BMW have the same issues in some areas of Atlanta and in the North Georgia Area. The fact that your smaller GPS units can do it is a function of them being updated much more freqently. As I said before, it's one of the downsides to having a OEM unit as opposed to a "clip-on" unit. You're not going to find any other car makers OEM unit any different, yet (once internet connectivity comes to the car this might change).

As for the Route guidence, the GM version in the CTS is much better than the BMW, Acura and Nissan/Infiniti I own or have owned recently. Do they compare to the small clip-on gps? Maybe not, but again... each has it's pro's and con's.

It sounds like the OEM unit isn't the way to go for you. You might want to stick with a portable unit next time. For me, it works well as I use it every single day multiple times per day. It does have bugs that "bug" me, but I've not found any unit that didn't have something not perfect. I put 35,000k miles per year on my car and almost all of it is via Nav in the the Atlanta area.

I don't think there is an update avalable yet for the 08 CTS, but the GM Nav Disc Center Phone number is 1-877-NAV-DISC. You can also check out www.GMnavdisc.com or www.navteq.com. I'd suggest going to navteq and filling out their map feedback form and let them know where they are missing data. http://mapreporter.navteq.com/dur-web-external/secured/submitDur.do?userType=CONSUMER&language=en

Bathel,

no point arguing. As you I live in metro Atlanta and drive here a lot. But it was away from here that I encountered the problems. What was annoying that my previous Garmin with old maps got me to places that the latest CTS NAV does not! By the same token I absolutely love CTS graphics! It s mind blowing! Now if only the routing engine could be improved, and the maps coverage…..just hope they will have an update soon…

I don't see how it can be Navteqs problem.......... even if it is Navteqs problem.
GM sold me this thing and damn well better stand behind it.
IF it needs updating then I would expect GM to pull it's head out of it's rectum and update it.
Or at least cause it to be updated. There is another player here, and that is Alpine, maker of fine HUs and so-so NAVs.
Alpine Will NOT speak to end users. I know, I tried.

But, lets ask questions instead of making statement we can't prove.
You say that NavTeq hasn't digitized the map of Roswell NM.
Interesting statement. But I doubt that. In fact, I know that is false.
One thing we could ask is when that Garmin 330 was purchased.
You know, the one that works.
The one that uses NavTeq.
And was it ever updated?
It has been retailed for at least 3 years.

If the 330 works, and it uses NavTeq, then we know that Navteq at some point can do it.

Now is it possible that the Navteq in the Alpine, in the Cadillac, has a map that is 3 years old?

Sure it is. As I said, Alpine is not exactly famous for their NAVs.

But that then becomes something that needs to be fixed, and can be fixed.
And GM is the company that must get that done.


I too pack my Garmin (nuvi 350) when I go on trips.


Now about this digitizing.....
Seems to me.... that if a nav can show me streets, then that part of the map is digitized.
I can understand if it doesn't show me a new street.....
But if it does show the streets like it does in Roswell.......
Since the Picture is just the video interpretation of digital data....
And it seems to me that each intersections has been digitized.....
Otherwise how can it display what starts out as just number.....
Is that not correct?
What would I be missing here?

..........
Since the Picture is just the video interpretation of digital data....
And it seems to me that each intersections has been digitized.....
Otherwise how can it display what starts out as just number.....
Is that not correct?
What would I be missing here?


This is my understanding too.....and that's why I cannot understand why the CTS nav is doing what it is doing.....

The CTS nav system uses a combination of the database info, GPS, vehicle movement (wheel speed sensors), and the vehicle compass to determine where you are and how to get where you're going. one or more of these being off a bit can affect the guidance.
one suggestion is to recalibrate the compass (nav manual pg.2-43). $0.02.
rg

Ronster,

the problem we are describing has nothing to do with the compass calibration.
It is the routing engine....and possibly maps...

Ronster,

the problem we are describing has nothing to do with the compass calibration.
It is the routing engine....and possibly maps...

sorry. I was just Reading the Manual.

Do not be sorry, get even! Kidding only....actually the NAV tracks very well and is very accurate. I am impressed in that respect. However as I always stated the routing engine sucks.....this should be easily corrected during software updates. I updated my Garmin units numerous times. As a matter of fact even though we had identical units with my wife, we kept different firmwares (nothing to do with maps!) because of the preferences we have with routing engines...

So GM, step in, sep up and get the new routing engine to us!

I will have to admit that the accuracy is good. At one point, I was entering an intersection of 3 roads........6 entry and exit points......and it had told me to take a left....and than the BONG went off, the one that some people hate....but doesn't bother me at all...and it must have been within a meter or two of the correct road to the left. Made it very easy to choose the correct one.......
Of course I am used to extreme accuracy as Garmin at least, uses WAAS. I wonder if the OEM does.......? Sure seemed like it.

What is WAAS?
http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/waas.html

you will be entitled to one free nav upgrade, the number is in your owners manual, its is usually available to u after 18 months

I think usually the OEM navigation has well known/proven previous map data. They can't put new version even it is available because of reliability issue. And, it is always at least 1yr~2yr behind.

And, I did not know we will be entitled to one free nav upgrade. Thanks cadillacroadside.

But, lets ask questions instead of making statement we can't prove.
You say that NavTeq hasn't digitized the map of Roswell NM.
Interesting statement. But I doubt that. In fact, I know that is false.
One thing we could ask is when that Garmin 330 was purchased.
You know, the one that works.
The one that uses NavTeq.
And was it ever updated?
It has been retailed for at least 3 years.As I stated above... the MAP version you have does not have it digitized. If you want upgraded maps, unfortunately you have to pay for it. Navteq will put out an upgrade soon for the map data in the Caddy. Normally these cost about $ 125 dollars. I don't know how GM will handle this, but as stated in a post above... they may pay for the first update which I more than most if not all other car manufacturer's do (actually I think Nissan gives one free map upgrade also). This isn't an issue of the Nav system not working correcly. Again, it's work perfectly... it's just the MAP data is poor for you area.

Now about this digitizing.....
Seems to me.... that if a nav can show me streets, then that part of the map is digitized.
I can understand if it doesn't show me a new street.....
But if it does show the streets like it does in Roswell.......
Since the Picture is just the video interpretation of digital data....
And it seems to me that each intersections has been digitized.....
Otherwise how can it display what starts out as just number.....
Is that not correct?
What would I be missing here?They pull the road data from satellite maps. They then travel the roads with a vehicle and "digitize" the location... ie the longitude and latitude of each road. If the road hasn't been Digitized, you don't have exact guidence as it's only going off a visual location from a satellite. This is why you can't get guidence to a location, because they don't have the longitude and latitude "digitized" The computer doesn't know "exactly" how to get there... you can see the road, but the computer can't.

As I stated above... the MAP version you have does not have it digitized. If you want upgraded maps, unfortunately you have to pay for it. Navteq will put out an upgrade soon for the map data in the Caddy. Normally these cost about $ 125 dollars. I don't know how GM will handle this. I dobut they will foot the bill as no other car maker I know of does. This isn't an issue of the Nav system not working correcly. Again, it's work perfectly... it's just the MAP data is poor for you area. ...

Actually we Do know how GM will handle this. owners get Two Free Updates, one on the first anniversary and one on the second anniversary. see gmnavdisc.com as stated earlier in this thread.
rg

Roswell, N.M. don't you realize that is where the spaceships have landed. The gamma and beta rays they throw off keeps any gps from working correctly. You're lucky they have not absconded you and that you have not had a an-l probe! Get out of there before they send more ships.

:domo:

BTW, our gps works great!

Actually we Do know how GM will handle this. owners get Two Free Updates, one on the first anniversary and one on the second anniversary. see gmnavdisc.com as stated earlier in this thread.
rg
I had corrected my post just before you posted this.... thank you.

Also, let me say... I understand the OP frustrations. This is one of the main reasons people don't buy the OEM units with the cars. The smaller units typically have more updated maps at a cheaper cost. I just don't think it's fair to try and blame GM for something that is not broken.

cell phones and satellite tv receivers get software updates over the air, it seems GM should be able to use On* for this purpose.
shouldn't have to wait a year to maybe get coverage of an area you travel in. I actually hit a spot last weekend where the nav said no guidance. it should not happen but no system is perfect. I understand the mfr. depends on suppliers but GM is ultimately responsible.
rg

cell phones and satellite tv receivers get software updates over the air, it seems GM should be able to use On* for this purpose.
shouldn't have to wait a year to maybe get coverage of an area you travel in. I actually hit a spot last weekend where the nav said no guidance. it should not happen but no system is perfect. I understand the mfr. depends on suppliers but GM is ultimately responsible.
rgMaybe it's something they can look into to help set them apart from the competition, as every car maker has the same issue.... I'd love for them to be able to update the system via the Satellite signal from XM, but I'm sure that would be costly as XM is pretty squeezed for bandwith as it is.

Talked to Cadillac this morning. They know they have a problem. They are saying the upgrade is comming between June and September should correct the problem. I don't think some of you understand the problem. The map is right but the voice telling you how to get there says no information on this area. The Garman 330c which was purchased 2 years ago and has had NO UPDATE will take me right to the address of the 30 year old street I am testing it with.
We'll just have to wait and see if they are true to their word and get a fix for the software. I hope they get lots more complaints on this.
Thanks

Actually we Do know how GM will handle this. owners get Two Free Updates, one on the first anniversary and one on the second anniversary. see gmnavdisc.com as stated earlier in this thread.
rg

Well I went there and this is what it says:

GM is please to offer a subscription program including all new North American 2006 and 2007 model year GM vehicles (excluding Saab) with factory installed navigation systems. Owners of qualified GM vehicles will receive two free update discs for the navigation system on your first and second anniversary.

Doesn't do us much good.:mad:

Grey Ghost,

I wouldn't write off also getting updates for the 2008, it is likely GM hasn't updated the website yet. One of the big problems with the web is that it is easy to post/publish new items but no one wants to keep things up to date. It is the electronic/virtual version of those election signs that stay tacked to poles long after the election is over.

Well I went there and this is what it says:

GM is please to offer a subscription program including all new North American 2006 and 2007 model year GM vehicles (excluding Saab) with factory installed navigation systems. Owners of qualified GM vehicles will receive two free update discs for the navigation system on your first and second anniversary.

Doesn't do us much good.:mad:

has anyone with a 2008 CTS gotten close to their first anniversary yet?
I think that would be a few months away.

Technologywise, our '08 nav system would be much easier to update than previous years. '07's and earlier would require a new DVD disk. With the packaging and delivery it is exspensive. '08's could be updated regularly in 2 ways.
1. OnStar download. How much easier than that.
2. Go to the dealer. He puts in the update disk. It spins for 5 minutes and you're done. Say thank you and leave. Like portable gps units, we can update the data base to our eternally re-writable hard drive (well as long as it is still spinning anyhow). If they charge more than $30 for this I'll feel like they are ripping us off.
So let'd see how it happens in the next few months.

back to the O.P. and a few other posts in this thread, it sounds like a simple database update is not the issue for not finding a street or address that has been around for years. it may help in some cases but I still refer to page 2-41 thru 43 in the nav manual, it is more likely a problem with calibration or interference. c'mon, Roswell? :)

Ronster,
nice try ;)

I do not believe my car has problem with calibration. It always shows the position with great accuracy. There is something else that is causing the problem with re-calculating the routes and not finding some of the destinations.
I know that one of the issues is the routing engine, it needs to be improved for quicker calculation. Not finding locations? I am not sure about this one.....it did happen to me probably once. I know what the location was but it is unlikely i will be back out there soon so I cannot check it. There is a slight possibility that the street was marked as a "private property".....