: Why Are Most H2 Owners So Ridiculously Defensive?



AMGoff
04-15-08, 05:32 PM
Disclaimer: If anyone on here happens to own an H2, I'll extend my apologies now... I know everyone isn't the same and I'm just commenting on repeated experiences with several other H2 owners.

But seriously... can someone shed some light on this phenomena? Is it because many buy them to compensate for this, that, or some other... so subsequently they feel an "attack" on their H2 is a purposeful attack on their insecurities? Who knows... but it's just weird that they get so completely outraged and defensive when someone questions its capabilities.

I honestly think though, that an H2 is one of the ultimate "poseur" vehicles. This is a rare occasion where I can say that I truly respect those who buy one merely for its "show-off" factor... but I can't understand how some believe that they are top-notch off-road vehicles that share more in common with a real "H1" Hummer than its GM stablemates. I constantly hear from those with that point of view that an H2 more than belongs in the same league as a Range Rover and will then also usually put down a Jeep.

I really don't get it at all. How can someone make the claim that an H2 shares more in common with an H1, than it does with a Tahoe? Can someone please explain this... because unless I'm totally missing something, H2s are built on the old GMT800 platform, correct? And while they'll then counter with it being a "highly modified" version of the GMT800... as far as I can tell... any of the modifications come straight out of the GM parts-bin... with the biggest difference being that it uses a Chevy/GMC 2500 front end with a 1500 rear-end... however, the engines are standard GM fare... the transmissions are standard GM 4-speed autos (I think the brand new ones finally got a 6-speed). Even the (not so)"heavy" modifications are counterproductive for an offroad vehicle... the 2500 front end is too bulky and cumbersome for off-road use and the 1500 rear offers nothing special over a normal Tahoe/Suburban... and all of it adds up to entirely too much weight for offroad performance... I've never met any serious off-roader who would find such mass to be beneficial.

I firmly believe that the Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban is an excellent vehicle that's big, comfortable, decent in inclement weather, and can literally haul tons of stuff... but I wouldn't call them bona fide trail-monsters. Because of which... it seems to me that an H2 is still nothing more than a slightly modified Tahoe with a heavy modification in marketing. Beyond that, they don't even appear to be all that "rugged." I'm sure many of you have seen the video of the H2 throwing a tie-rod while attempting to tackle some relatively small rocks... hell, I've even heard of a few doing such while just trying to negotiate a big speed bump.

So in all honesty... am I the only one who doesn't see it? Am I the only one who thinks it's ridiculous to put a GMT800 vehicle amongst vehicles such as a Land Rover? I can't even see how they would adequately stack up against most 4WD Jeeps.

I guess my bottom line is that it's perfectly acceptable to own one for the sake of making some sort of varied statement... there are a lot of cars that do the same... But as a serious offroader and a "true" Hummer? That's just a bit delusional IMO.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-15-08, 05:40 PM
At work yesterday, to simulate proper H2 ownership, I knowingly parked a black H2 across two parking spots, one of them being handicapped.

Playdrv4me
04-15-08, 05:45 PM
Hey! Did I see a Range Rover jab in there? :mad: :p

Jesda
04-15-08, 05:47 PM
I like the H2. It pisses off people I usually don't like. Otherwise, TLDR.

Playdrv4me
04-15-08, 05:48 PM
Oh btw Adam, if you read my H2 review when I bought mine, I gave the thing absolutely no passes. It is just as ostentatious and pointless as you described... and for all that, its a hell of alot of fun.

AMGoff
04-15-08, 05:49 PM
Hey! Did I see a Range Rover jab in there? :mad: :p

Not at all... while their reliability has come into question throughout various points in their existence, I truly believe that Range Rovers are top-tier, purpose built off-road monsters... even if most of them will never see anything other than pavement, the capability is still there. I just find it amazing that some people would put an H2 in that league...

Jesda
04-15-08, 05:52 PM
The Range Rover is a unibody tall wagon.

The H2 is a truck.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-15-08, 05:54 PM
If it wasn't for the hip-hop/MTV crowd, the H2 wouldn't exist.

Playdrv4me
04-15-08, 05:54 PM
The Range Rover is a unibody tall wagon.

So is the Grand Cherokee?

Jesda
04-15-08, 05:58 PM
So is the Grand Cherokee?

This is why the Cherokee is preferred off road.

nickc50310
04-15-08, 05:59 PM
Best American built 4wd hands down: JEEP. Mainly before they went to IWS.

My old car was a 97 Grand Cherokee. I had a 2" Budget Boost and 30" BFG AT KO tires on it. I offroaded regularly and NEVER got stuck. Seriously, that thing was UNSTOPPABLE. I remember watching a huge modified Ram get stuck in a mudhole that I had just drove through, no problem.

I am planning on being much better off financially by next sumer. At that time I will be buying an 01 to 03 Grand Cherokee with the HO 4.7 for a winter/shtf vehicle. In my eyes there is no better 4x4 all purpose vehicle on the planet at that price point.

Playdrv4me
04-15-08, 06:00 PM
This is why the Cherokee is preferred off road.

Hmm... Touche.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-15-08, 06:29 PM
I've often wondered why most (and of course, there are many exceptions to the rule) Corvette owners are so defensive, arrogant and pompous.

Jesda
04-15-08, 06:44 PM
And whats the deal with airplane food?

dkozloski
04-15-08, 06:57 PM
I never drove a Jeep that didn't steer like it'd been wrecked. They're the only vehicles I ever drove that I had to unwind the steering coming out of a corner. There's not enough caster or something similar wrong with the front end geometry.

DILLIGAF
04-15-08, 07:07 PM
My neighbor has an H2.Guess what the sales pitch was that convinced him to buy it?























This things got a Hemi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
04-15-08, 07:22 PM
Well you could always show them this:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KSMTRxIknpw&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KSMTRxIknpw&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>




These things are nothing compared to the original hummer. The only thing they share in common is the 7-bar grill, and Jeep sued GM over the rights to it anyway. They are also the biggest poseur car I have ever seen. Cannot tell you how many time I have seen rich looking (key word being looking) blond chicks driving them.

Jesda
04-15-08, 07:23 PM
Thats retarded. If you put that kind of stress in that specific location on almost any heavy truck you'll get the SAME result. These people suck at off roading.

The Tony Show
04-15-08, 07:25 PM
http://www.hummerhope.com/from-behind-the-lines/hurricane-katrina-a-thank-you-to-the-hummer-comunity-and-hope-volunteers


Not all HUMMER owners are jerks.

gary88
04-15-08, 07:27 PM
I've been off-roading in an H1 before. Now THAT was an experience.

H2s are just... soccermomerrifific

eldorado99
04-15-08, 07:33 PM
This thread is so ******* funny it makes me want to MERGE without LOOKING!!

dkozloski
04-15-08, 07:41 PM
If an H2 is this bad what does that make an H3?

93DevilleUSMC
04-15-08, 07:44 PM
I agree with AMGoff: The H2s are certainly excellent vehicles in their own right, but it's rediculous to say that a GM vehicle on a Tahoe platform is an equally capable off-road vehicle to the HMMVW (different vehicle that H1) which was built to the United States Army's vehicle mobility standards. One of the requirements the Army set foir it's vehicles was that all of them be able to climn 45-degree inclines in most terrains, if not all.

Blackout
04-15-08, 07:57 PM
The answer is because many CTS-V owners own H2's as well lol

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-15-08, 07:59 PM
:watches from a distance:

hueterm
04-15-08, 09:46 PM
If someone wants to drive one, then fine (I drive an EXT, so I'm not going to throw stones) -- but I couldn't justify one just because of the lack of interior space. ESPECIALLY for cargo.

And the SUT is just a joke. You can barely fit a cooler in the bed.

hueterm
04-15-08, 09:47 PM
If an H2 is this bad what does that make an H3?

Actually much more reasonable and attractive since it is proportioned more normally.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-15-08, 10:14 PM
Who needs an H2 when you've got this beast in your garage?!

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/Photo-0261.jpg

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
04-15-08, 10:50 PM
Who needs an H2 when you've got this beast in your garage?!

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/Photo-0261.jpg


Thats one sexy piece of machinery right there, but this one tops it.



http://images.paultan.org/uploads/2006/09/forfun2_1.jpg

Playdrv4me
04-15-08, 10:51 PM
I've been off-roading in an H1 before. Now THAT was an experience.

H2s are just... soccermomerrifific

That's not true! My mom has never been on a soccer field in her life! :D

Playdrv4me
04-15-08, 10:59 PM
Alright, let's get this out of the way now.

The H2 is a TERRIBLE choice for SERIOUS rock crawling or any competitive hobby 4x4-ing for that matter. Being on a Tahoe platform is *NOT* the reason why however. In fact, the H2 is truly a hybrid (ha ha) of a few different platforms. The Tahoe platform is technically T820, while the trucks are T800. The H2 has a GM *2500* BASED FRONT end. In other words, the front half is all HEAVY DUTY GM truck platform (in addition to Suburban and Avalanche 2500). The rear, while still a standard 1500 based design, is beefed up handle the 8,600LB GVWR of this massive beast. This truck also features a different 4WD setup with locking differentials and special underbody plating. Trust me, the H2 needn't make ANY apologies for it's HARDWARE.

The PROBLEM with taking the H2 seriously is it's sheer BULK and GIRTH. A Range Rover, Wrangler, or Grand Cherokee would tear the H2 a new arsehole IMMEDIATELY on ANY kind of trail that required even SEMI precision to get across. It is the truest automotive definition of BULL IN A CHINA SHOP. The thing is too big to get out of it's OWN way, let alone boulders and crevaces.

What alot of people don't realize by the way, is that when the H2 debuted it was the RARE bang for the buck in the full-size off-road capable category. The Range Rover, LX470 and G500 were all at least 20,000.00 more, and the H2's starting MSRP was only around 48k. I also don't believe GM ever intended for the truck to compete in the luxury full-size market, as it would have (and does) take market share from the Escalade sold right alongside it in most markets.

Pretty much what you're left with is towing, OPEN off-road trails, beach combing or light mudding as the most diverse things you can use it for. Make no mistake however, the H2 packs serious hardware, it just can't do much with it.

dkozloski
04-15-08, 11:25 PM
Alright, let's get this out of the way now.

The H2 is a TERRIBLE choice for SERIOUS rock crawling or any competitive hobby 4x4-ing for that matter. Being on a Tahoe platform is *NOT* the reason why however. In fact, the H2 is truly a hybrid (ha ha) of a few different platforms. The Tahoe platform is technically T820, while the trucks are T800. The H2 has a GM *2500* BASED FRONT end. In other words, the front half is all HEAVY DUTY GM truck platform (in addition to Suburban and Avalanche 2500). The rear, while still a standard 1500 based design, is beefed up handle the 8,600LB GVWR of this massive beast. This truck also features a different 4WD setup with locking differentials and special underbody plating. Trust me, the H2 needn't make ANY apologies for it's HARDWARE.

The PROBLEM with taking the H2 seriously is it's sheer BULK and GIRTH. A Range Rover, Wrangler, or Grand Cherokee would tear the H2 a new arsehole IMMEDIATELY on ANY kind of trail that required even SEMI precision to get across. It is the truest automotive definition of BULL IN A CHINA SHOP. The thing is too big to get out of it's OWN way, let alone boulders and crevaces.

What alot of people don't realize by the way, is that when the H2 debuted it was the RARE bang for the buck in the full-size off-road capable category. The Range Rover, LX470 and G500 were all at least 20,000.00 more, and the H2's starting MSRP was only around 48k. I also don't believe GM ever intended for the truck to compete in the luxury full-size market, as it would have (and does) take market share from the Escalade sold right alongside it in most markets.

Pretty much what you're left with is towing, OPEN off-road trails, beach combing or light mudding as the most diverse things you can use it for. Make no mistake however, the H2 packs serious hardware, it just can't do much with it.
The very largest share of the off-road mud trucks spend the major share of their life doing the equivilant of cruising up and down Sunset Boulevard.

Jesda
04-15-08, 11:35 PM
This thread is so ******* funny it makes me want to MERGE without LOOKING!!

FAMILY GUY ROCKS!

AMGoff
04-16-08, 12:09 AM
Alright, let's get this out of the way now.

The H2 is a TERRIBLE choice for SERIOUS rock crawling or any competitive hobby 4x4-ing for that matter. Being on a Tahoe platform is *NOT* the reason why however. In fact, the H2 is truly a hybrid (ha ha) of a few different platforms. The Tahoe platform is technically T820, while the trucks are T800. The H2 has a GM *2500* BASED FRONT end. In other words, the front half is all HEAVY DUTY GM truck platform (in addition to Suburban and Avalanche 2500). The rear, while still a standard 1500 based design, is beefed up handle the 8,600LB GVWR of this massive beast. This truck also features a different 4WD setup with locking differentials and special underbody plating. Trust me, the H2 needn't make ANY apologies for it's HARDWARE.

The PROBLEM with taking the H2 seriously is it's sheer BULK and GIRTH. A Range Rover, Wrangler, or Grand Cherokee would tear the H2 a new arsehole IMMEDIATELY on ANY kind of trail that required even SEMI precision to get across. It is the truest automotive definition of BULL IN A CHINA SHOP. The thing is too big to get out of it's OWN way, let alone boulders and crevaces.

What alot of people don't realize by the way, is that when the H2 debuted it was the RARE bang for the buck in the full-size off-road capable category. The Range Rover, LX470 and G500 were all at least 20,000.00 more, and the H2's starting MSRP was only around 48k. I also don't believe GM ever intended for the truck to compete in the luxury full-size market, as it would have (and does) take market share from the Escalade sold right alongside it in most markets.

Pretty much what you're left with is towing, OPEN off-road trails, beach combing or light mudding as the most diverse things you can use it for. Make no mistake however, the H2 packs serious hardware, it just can't do much with it.

So then... what you're saying, is basically what I said... right? lol... So that means I'm really not missing anything here... it rides on a modified Tahoe platform with all of it's modifications coming straight from the parts bin, ie - nothing special. It's also too big and entirely too heavy to be taken seriously as a true off-roader.

That's just about the gist of it all, right?

Jesda
04-16-08, 12:20 AM
You guys should start dating and write technical manuals together for a living. I guess dating isn't really necessary, but you might as well.

Playdrv4me
04-16-08, 12:23 AM
So then... what you're saying, is basically what I said... right? lol... So that means I'm really not missing anything here... it rides on a modified Tahoe platform with all of it's modifications coming straight from the parts bin, ie - nothing special. It's also too big and entirely too heavy to be taken seriously as a true off-roader.

That's just about the gist of it all, right?

I wasn't necessarily refuting or confirming your original point, which was entirely valid. What I was trying to dis-spell was the myth that its *just* a Tahoe with big wheels and tires, which is what seems to be the consensus here, and it's simply not the case. As per usual, there is more than meets the eye there.

Playdrv4me
04-16-08, 12:38 AM
I never drove a Jeep that didn't steer like it'd been wrecked. They're the only vehicles I ever drove that I had to unwind the steering coming out of a corner. There's not enough caster or something similar wrong with the front end geometry.

Alot of modern Jeeps have that problem, they got it pretty well resolved with the WJ Grand Cherokee, but the ZJs were notorious for steering slop and complete numbness on-center.

The T800s arent much better though, I've yet to meet one that drives straight.

slk230mb
04-16-08, 08:39 AM
I wasn't necessarily refuting or confirming your original point, which was entirely valid. What I was trying to dis-spell was the myth that its *just* a Tahoe with big wheels and tires, which is what seems to be the consensus here, and it's simply not the case. As per usual, there is more than meets the eye there.

http://www.wearyourbeer.com/images/Transformers_Logo_Navy_Shirt.jpg

Destroyer
04-16-08, 09:47 AM
If it wasn't for the hip-hop/MTV crowd, the H2 wouldn't exist.
The Escalade even moreso

dkozloski
04-16-08, 10:40 AM
Escalade= gussied-up Suburban.

hueterm
04-16-08, 10:47 AM
Escalade= gussied-up Suburban.

Or Avalanche -- with better leather, a better ride, and a whole lot more power.

AMGoff
04-16-08, 01:15 PM
Escalade= gussied-up Suburban.

Then, H2 = butched-up Suburban?

Playdrv4me
04-16-08, 01:19 PM
Then, H2 = butched-up Suburban?

Yukon Denali = Brown-nosing Middle-management Suburban? :D

dkozloski
04-16-08, 01:35 PM
Suburban=The standard by which all others are judged.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-16-08, 01:43 PM
Suburban = The pioneer in the field.

AMGoff
04-16-08, 01:44 PM
Suburban = second-rate Grand Wagoneer!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-16-08, 01:50 PM
Who went defunct in 1991 and who's still around?

AMGoff
04-16-08, 01:54 PM
The brightest stars shine half as long...

hueterm
04-16-08, 02:02 PM
Wasn't the Grand Wagoneer more like the Range Rover of its day?

Playdrv4me
04-16-08, 02:39 PM
Wasn't the Grand Wagoneer more like the Range Rover of its day?

As far as the domestics were concerned, Yes. However the Range Rover came over here as a luxury SUV way back in 1981, and grey market cars were coming over before that, so they were more contemporary to eachother than you'd think.

Back then however, neither one of them could be remotely confused with a poseur anything. They were both purpose-built off-roaders designed to provide comforts in the wilderness.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-16-08, 02:42 PM
Don't get me wrong, I like the GW, a lot. As a matter of fact, I still think it's Jeep's best looking vehicle, ever.

JimmyH
04-16-08, 02:52 PM
The answer is because many CTS-V owners own H2's as well lol

Not this one. Not if it was free. H2, like the Prius, is a fashion statement.



http://www.wearyourbeer.com/images/Transformers_Logo_Navy_Shirt.jpg

hell yeah!



I had a Grand Cherokee. I managed to break the front suspension without a single off-road excursion.

Jesda
04-16-08, 03:33 PM
http://media.fukung.net/images/1364/someonelosesaneye.jpg

JimmyH
04-16-08, 04:15 PM
lawnmower racing is fun

Koooop
04-16-08, 05:30 PM
Suburban = second-rate Grand Wagoneer!

Unlike the 1991 Grand Wagoneer Suburban's didn't blow a motor every 10,000 miles.

WADDA POS the Grand Wagoneer was! When they did run (if they didn't have a bad accelerator pump or a blown motor), they'd run circles around damn near anything off road. Sort of like a Range Rover.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-16-08, 06:00 PM
In it's time, wasn't the GW the only full sized american 4x4 that was a four door? The offerings from Dodge, Plymouth, Chev and GMC were all two doors. Correct?

Playdrv4me
04-16-08, 06:02 PM
In it's time, wasn't the GW the only full sized american 4x4 that was a four door? The offerings from Dodge, Plymouth, Chev and GMC were all two doors. Correct?

Except for the Suburban, then the torch was passed to the Cherokee, Jimmy and Blazer in the mid 80s, which is where the moden SUV movement kinda had it's foothold.

dkozloski
04-16-08, 06:06 PM
International Travelall preceded them all with three and then four doors by more than ten years. First four door Corn Binder was in 1961. Suburban got four doors in 1973. First 4x4 Corn Binders were a dealer option with a Marmon Herrington kit.

JimmyH
04-16-08, 07:24 PM
I wish guys in Hummers would drive defensively.

AMGoff
04-16-08, 07:28 PM
Unlike the 1991 Grand Wagoneer Suburban's didn't blow a motor every 10,000 miles.

WADDA POS the Grand Wagoneer was! When they did run (if they didn't have a bad accelerator pump or a blown motor), they'd run circles around damn near anything off road. Sort of like a Range Rover.

Bullocks... it's damn near impossible to kill a 360, believe me... I've given it more than its fair share of abuse. The things are dinosaurs, in fact they were the preferred vehicle of the druids... there's really not all that much to go wrong with one. The "technology" (if you can even call it that) was well beyond antiquated while it was still in production - if I remember correctly, it was the last domestically produced vehicle in the US that was still carbureted... I think only some cruddy little Isuzu continued to offer such for a year or so after.

In the almost 14 years I've had the old gal, other than normal maintenance stuff (plugs, wires, fliters, batteries, fuses, etc.)... I've had to replace the vacuum lines, the ignition switch, the starter solenoid, and the headliner... that's it. My only possible complaint I could make about her is the wretched fuel economy... which I'm happy if she hits double digits - which is usually downhill with a tailwind!

Beyond that, I still attest that it's not only the genesis, but the pinnacle of go-anywhere comfort. Even compared to most modern SUVs of today... all I have to do is flip that little chrome switch on the dashboard and she really will run circles around the whole lot of them - especially an H2!

As far as the old Suburbans go... I've always been fond of them... they just needed a hefty dose of faux woodgrain trim!

Playdrv4me
04-16-08, 08:42 PM
Wow, I didn't realize the fuel economy was THAT bad, that's actually worse than the H2. MPI must have done alot for the 360 because the 5.9 Grand Cherokee had much improved fuel economy.

gary88
04-16-08, 09:05 PM
Bullocks...

It's bollocks, you bloody Yank! :thumbsup:

Back when I had my '93 K5 Blazer with a 350, I calculated out the gas mileage to be 8-9 miles around town and 13 on the highway. With a 27 gallon tank, I'd be lucky to get 250 miles out of it.

Playdrv4me
04-16-08, 09:11 PM
It's bollocks, you bloody Yank! :thumbsup:

Back when I had my '93 K5 Blazer with a 350, I calculated out the gas mileage to be 8-9 miles around town and 13 on the highway. With a 27 gallon tank, I'd be lucky to get 250 miles out of it.

I'm not really sure why but the H2 gets miserable highway economy, but miserable in the sense that it doesn't jive with the city economy. At least on the 175 mile trip back from where I got it, I couldn't break 12MPG. Yet in the city it averages around 11 or more. I really can only attribute that to the fact that refrigerators have zero aerodyanmics.

According to Jesda, the Navigator was only a few tenths better in city use.

gary88
04-16-08, 09:24 PM
That's somewhat surprising, as the Escalade gets better gas mileage. About 13 around town, 14 if you baby it, and 18-20ish on the highway. Once you get all that mass rolling the mileage starts to get better.

dkozloski
04-16-08, 10:43 PM
What really annoyed me about the Grand Wagoneer was all the shimmy and wheel tramp associated with the four wheel drive. Going over mutiple railroad tracks at 20 MPH it'd just about swap ends. On a gravel road, where you were going was anybody's guess. I never saw a GW that a radiator leak hadn't just been fixed, it was presently leaking, or about to spring a new one. The silent chain in the transfer case either roared, had a mile of slack and you could hear it slapping around, or both. They would seldom strand you but that was bad because it didn't give you a plausible reason to dump it and get a real rig. Interior trim was never a strong suit and most of them around here the stuffing was coming out of the seats.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-16-08, 10:45 PM
In it's day, the GW was the only real "luxury" 4wd, aside from the Rangies.

dkozloski
04-16-08, 11:08 PM
In it's day, the GW was the only real "luxury" 4wd, aside from the Rangies.
Yeah! If you wanted luxury you had to put up with the crude running gear.

Koooop
04-17-08, 12:08 AM
Bullocks... it's damn near impossible to kill a 360, believe me... I've given it more than its fair share of abuse. The things are dinosaurs, in fact they were the preferred vehicle of the druids... there's really not all that much to go wrong with one. The "technology" (if you can even call it that) was well beyond antiquated while it was still in production - if I remember correctly, it was the last domestically produced vehicle in the US that was still carbureted... I think only some cruddy little Isuzu continued to offer such for a year or so after.

In the almost 14 years I've had the old gal, other than normal maintenance stuff (plugs, wires, fliters, batteries, fuses, etc.)... I've had to replace the vacuum lines, the ignition switch, the starter solenoid, and the headliner... that's it. My only possible complaint I could make about her is the wretched fuel economy... which I'm happy if she hits double digits - which is usually downhill with a tailwind!

Beyond that, I still attest that it's not only the genesis, but the pinnacle of go-anywhere comfort. Even compared to most modern SUVs of today... all I have to do is flip that little chrome switch on the dashboard and she really will run circles around the whole lot of them - especially an H2!

As far as the old Suburbans go... I've always been fond of them... they just needed a hefty dose of faux woodgrain trim!

I seem to recall the giant POS GW was a 401 4bbl, which was junk. I guess all of these things didn't have the Limited option.

I also recall the average buyer of a Limited made in excess of $125,000 per year, which was good money by the standard of the day.

The Limited was heavy on luxury and would go anywhere, but a rattle box none the less. You could stick your finger out over the window frame when the door was closed! Wadda (go anywhere) pile.

LOL

dkozloski
04-17-08, 12:27 AM
I seem to recall the giant POS GW was a 401 4bbl, which was junk. I guess all of these things didn't have the Limited option.

I also recall the average buyer of a Limited made in excess of $125,000 per year, which was good money by the standard of the day.

The Limited was heavy on luxury and would go anywhere, but a rattle box none the less. You could stick your finger out over the window frame when the door was closed! Wadda (go anywhere) pile.

LOL
The entire package was a flexible flyer. The steering wheel shook, the mirrors shook, the seats shook, the gearshift shook, the instrument panel shook, the doors shook, all in response to the shimmy and wheel tramp.

AMGoff
04-17-08, 12:43 AM
Ahhh... there's the old Koz I know... we've been agreeing on too many things lately, it must have made me forget. I can't speak of any of the early Wagoneers or J-Trucks, but any of your anecdotal evidence is in complete contradiction to a 14 year old love affair.

Who knows?

Maybe you're absolutely right and I just happened to acquire the one fluke that manages to run right... or maybe I'm just lying out my rear-end and the thing's a total bucket... or maybe.. just maybe, sometimes a sweeping generalization isn't an accurate representation of reality. The things I mentioned having worked on are truly the only things I've had to replace on it... again, who knows... maybe the whole thing to a complete dump on the original owner during the first 5 years of its existence and I just happened to get a totally rebuilt GW. Again... as far as the interior, with the exception of the headliner and some discoloration of the steering wheel... the interior is in fantastic shape for a vehicle that's almost 20 years old... I've never done anything special with it either - I'll only vacuum her out every now and then, but there's no stuffing coming out of the seats, the leather's still in nice shape - no tears or rips, the corduroy inserts show little wear... all the power accessories still work, ie - keyless entry, overhead console computer, seats, locks, mirrors, locks, rear tailgate window, etc... Then on the outside... the paint is in horrible shape - but that's only because Chrysler products of that era were notorious for their sub-par paint jobs.

I'll fully admit that while on the road in 2WD, the steering is as vague as it is sloppy... way too much wheel play and no sense of being connected to the road. However... in 4WD that's not the case whatsoever - she handles amazingly offroad and in inclement weather. What you might call crude, I call beautifully simple - because it just works... flip that little chrome switch and BAM! Ready to go anywhere... then if things get a little tricky, pull the lever, put her into LOW and you're on your way once more... while also being able to pull Mt. McKinley.

The fact remains... whether biased against them or not, in the world of luxury SUVs, the GW is genesis... all of those Navigators and Escalades can call the GW "grand-daddy." Big, comfortable, capable, and for the time uber-luxurious... that's why they fetched Cadillac prices. They never should have stopped making them... there was no reason to, at least from a financial standpoint as they were still selling really well even at the time of their cancellation. The styling was classic... all they needed to do was throw a fuel injected 360 into it and maybe built it on to a modern Ram chassis and it would have been good to go for another decade at least.

Speaking of which... did anyone see the Popular Mechanics project where they took a GW body and threw it onto a Durango frame? I think they called it the "Durangoneer!" I'll have to see if I can find a link for it... but ever since I saw that I've thought that would be a cool idea.

Oh... Ian - yeah... the gas mileage is that horrible. Granted... it would all be considered "city" driving because I never take the think on the highway, nor above 50mph... I'd say 10mpg is a good estimate. Either way, fuel injection made a world of difference... actually.. wait.. was the 5.9 the used in the GC Limited a "Magnum" engine? If so... they were based off of the old LA engines... whereas the 360 in the GW was an AMC engine. I'm not entirely sure... but I'd say there were also a few more differences other than just fuel injection.

Jesda
04-17-08, 12:44 AM
But back then it was the only real luxury full size 4x4 you could get.

Playdrv4me
04-17-08, 12:49 AM
But back then it was the only real luxury full size 4x4 you could get.

Depends on what your definition of "THEN" is, the Range Rover debuted in 1981.

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/thisweekineducation/upload/2007/04/education_week_clinton_critici/Bill_Clinton_Biography_2.jpg

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-17-08, 12:50 AM
What do those corduroy inserts feel like?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-17-08, 12:58 AM
Good lord, look at this thing! How could you not like it, atleast it's exterior and interior appearance and luxury features.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-Jeep-Grand-Wagoneer-Classic-4x4-Clean-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ150237392861QQihZ005QQcategoryZ62 84QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://i9.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/ea/38/3ef3_3.JPG

http://i21.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/ea/38/45cb_3.JPG

http://i18.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/ea/38/530a_3.JPG


Look at it....that timeless, masculine, classy design; that leather lined, (faux) wood trimmed, deep pile carpeted cabin...it's truly, truly the Rolls Royce of SUV's in the '80s and early '90s. The only thing I wish they had was a fully automatic climate control.

AMGoff
04-17-08, 01:05 AM
I seem to recall the giant POS GW was a 401 4bbl, which was junk. I guess all of these things didn't have the Limited option.

I also recall the average buyer of a Limited made in excess of $125,000 per year, which was good money by the standard of the day.

The Limited was heavy on luxury and would go anywhere, but a rattle box none the less. You could stick your finger out over the window frame when the door was closed! Wadda (go anywhere) pile.

LOL

Like I said... I have little experience with the older Wagoneers... so I can't say one way or another. I believe the 401 was only an option on the FSJs from '75-'79 and was never offered in the '84-'91 GW... after which the 4.2 straight six was brought back into the line, which left the 360 as the top engine choice. With the amount of different engines and transmissions used throughout its 28 year run, it's not surprising that some bad ones would slip through. Towards the end of the 60s, they even used a Buick 350 in some of later Super Wagoneers.

But... I can only speak of the final run, '89-'91 GWs... and by that point they had almost three decades to iron all the wrinkles out, so all in all they were pretty solidly made.

Playdrv4me
04-17-08, 01:15 AM
There's alot of aftermarket outfits that completely restore those late 80s Waggies, almost to the extent of the restorations you see on classic cars, and they can sell in the multiple thousands of dollars for a pristine example. They are notorious for rusting in all the small seams and crevices where the body panels come together as well as normal spots like rocker panels so if you want one its important it isn't a rustbucket.

I place those last few years Waggies in the same category as the W126 Benz, timeless body from a completely different era.

AMGoff
04-17-08, 01:30 AM
Depends on what your definition of "THEN" is, the Range Rover debuted in 1981.

If we want to get really technical... the Grand Wagoneer, as we think of it and as I have, debuted in 1978 as the Wagoneer Limited... it came with powered leather seats, power everything else, air conditioning, a tilt wheel, cruise control, the trademark woodgrain trim... and best yet - a price tag of about $11,000... in 1978 dollars. Adjusted for today, that's between $35-40K.

They changed the name of the "Wagoneer Limited" to the "Grand Wagoneer" in 1984 after the introduction of the XJ Cherokee and Wagoneer.


What do those corduroy inserts feel like?

They actually feel like any other seat... they're neither more nor less comfortable than would all leather or plain cloth. If anything... I'd say they tend to hold up rather well.

I'm glad you through those pics up... it just goes to show how handsome that interior is, even to today's eyes... and again, the exterior is just classic. We're supposed to be giving all of the vehicles their big spring cleaning this weekend... I'll have to try and snap a few pics of the old gal.

dkozloski
04-17-08, 01:53 AM
When my nephew pulled into the driveway with his GW the first thing I noticed was the tiny stream of anti-freeze squirting out between a couple of bars on the grill and twenty feet out front. Not a good start and it got worse from there. At that tme he was on his second radiator. The seats in his were some kind of doggahyde and were split with the stuffing coming out. He said that happened in the first cold winter. The next time I saw it he had them covered with a GI blanket. The transfer case made all kinds of strange noises and eventually pooped the bed.

My boss at the time had one as well but a lot lower milage. Everything about it shook going over a washboard road. It acted to me like the shock package was tuned for some other suspension because the wheels bounced up and down like there were no shocks at all. It was almost undrivable on a gravel road.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Koooop
04-17-08, 02:06 AM
If it was only squirting out anti-freeze it must have been out of oil, ps fluid, brake fluid, transmission fluid, diff fluid, transfer case fluid and not to be forgotten the windshield washer reservoir must have been empty as well.

But when you mix those all togther they can paint a pretty picture on a parking lot. :alchi:

Come on, the seats in a Limited were comfortable like a lazyboy sofa. Come to think of it, that was the only thing that didn't fail!

JimmyH
04-17-08, 10:55 AM
It's bollocks, you bloody Yank! :thumbsup:

Back when I had my '93 K5 Blazer with a 350, I calculated out the gas mileage to be 8-9 miles around town and 13 on the highway. With a 27 gallon tank, I'd be lucky to get 250 miles out of it.

My 79 Regency (with the 6.6) got me around 9mpg around town. about 10 on the highway. 11 if I kept it under 70.

blue07cts
04-17-08, 08:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLHxeDKSIoU


at the end of the video. the reason jeremy clarkson like sthe H2. my feelings all the way..

HITMONEY
04-18-08, 07:53 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/hitmoney/Jeep/recovery.gif



:nuffsaid:



:nyanya:


:getaway:

Koooop
04-19-08, 12:41 AM
I pulled a stuck Chevy 4x4 out of the surf with a FSJ Limited. Funny, they can save Chevy's and H2's!