: 2001 Seville dies out????



speedydog
04-12-08, 09:58 AM
my son was driving twice already and car died while in motion and just died out coasted over to side put in park and it started right up, both times no service light both times car started right back up, after second time later the service light came on, so i told him to park it at home and don,t restart it until i checked codes, I only pulled up 2 same codes of po174(to lean bank 2) any ideas ???? i,m afraid to let him drive it especally that it dies in motion ,he loses power sterring etc. don,t know where to start looking and what caused the code :confused::confused:

CadillacSTS42005
04-12-08, 10:01 AM
CKPS
100% sure

speedydog
04-12-08, 10:34 AM
CKPS
100% sure

????? what is CKPS

speedydog
04-12-08, 10:38 AM
????? what is CKPS

never mind Crank shaft pos sensor

CadillacSTS42005
04-12-08, 10:39 AM
Crank Position Sensors
A&B
there are two
replace BOTH

FrankT
04-12-08, 10:39 AM
CranKshaft Position Sensor there are two of them, replace both.
But they should not set the lean codes, you may also have a vacuum leak, possibily a leaking pluemn.

Submariner409
04-12-08, 10:40 AM
Eventually two or three more codes will set, pertaining to CranKshaft Position sensor(s)(CKP) and a stall or near condition. Maybe also an "attempt to start while not in P or N".

I don't have the thread url's written down, but start going back from here, page by page, and look for CKP, stall, slow speed stall. LOTS of info over the past 2 years.

Sensor B is upper, A is lower. www.rockauto.com. Japanese manufacture, $110 (?) for both. Not a difficult replacement, but car has to be up in the air to allow room to work on the front side of the engine, just to the right of the oil filter. #12575481 & 12575482

Click on an image and scroll in.

CadillacSTS42005
04-12-08, 10:40 AM
wow
its like an echo
we like posted that at the same time Frank!

speedydog
04-12-08, 10:56 AM
how about the CKP System Variation Learn Procedure what does the dealer charge for this, if i replace them myself do i need to have this done?? and can a regular corner mecanic do the learning procedure or does it have to be cadillac dealer

FrankT
04-12-08, 10:56 AM
wow
its like an echo
we like posted that at the same time Frank!
Ya, too funny, :cheers:
___________________________________________
Any Sub, I agree, he should do the CKP's first, clear codes, then recheck.:yup:

FrankT
04-12-08, 11:00 AM
how about the CKP System Variation Learn Procedure what does the dealer charge for this, if i replace them myself do i need to have this done?? and can a regular corner mecanic do the learning procedure or does it have to be cadillac dealer

You might not need the Variation Learn done, If it sets other codes, like misfire codes or the code for variation learn not done, I think it's P0315, then you will need a Tech2 and the procedure performed. I can't see it being expensive, it only take a few minutes.

Ur7x
04-12-08, 12:51 PM
Most dealers will charge you an hour of "door rate" to do the crank relearn ($90-$150). The sensor relearn procedure is almost never required. Replace the sensors drive the car... if it drives fine you are done... as above ONLY if it stumbles, misfires, etc... ONLY then take it to the dealer and have the crank sensor relearn done.

speedydog
04-12-08, 03:46 PM
holy crap I just finished changing them what a PAIN IN THE A$$ my hands and knuckls are red and bloody but well see how it goes no check engine or any thing lit up so hopefully i won,t have to go to dealer for Relearn Crank Variance, thanks for all the info everyone

FrankT
04-12-08, 04:43 PM
holy crap I just finished changing them what a PAIN IN THE A$$ my hands and knuckls are red and bloody but well see how it goes no check engine or any thing lit up so hopefully i won,t have to go to dealer for Relearn Crank Variance, thanks for all the info everyone

Did you remove the lower motor mount bolt and lower the front of the engine cradle? It should've been a piece of cake. I can do both in about 20 mins.
AJ has a procedure in tech tips that works really nice. Anyway, congrats on a job well done. :thumbsup:.



Most dealers will charge you an hour of "door rate" to do the crank relearn ($90-$150).
:eek: what a rip!
I'll do for 1/2 that much and still feel like I'm overcharging. Once the engine at opeating temp, It takes like 10 seconds. I guess you have to pay for the overhead. Also the Tech2 is not cheap, over 3k for one.

Does anybody know if the aftermarket scanners have this feature?

Submariner409
04-12-08, 04:53 PM
FrankT, No, aftermarket scanners are passive, which is why you really don't need one for late Cadillac diagnostic work: the DIC repeats the codes for you, while the Tech II allows a mechanic to read, set, and reset parameters. A "civilian" could get into real expensive trouble with a Tech II by resetting PCM values which could cause engine damage.

Ur7x
04-12-08, 05:47 PM
I would also add that you don't need to remove the engine mount either..

Remove the oil filter, the oil filter adapter and this is a 20 minute job. No cuts or bruises...

Once the oil filter and adapter is out of the way this project is only slightly harder then changing your oil... You only need on 10mm wrench... Even all of the bolts/nuts are the same size...

This is an easy project... I've done 4 or 5 by now... Not a single cut... I didn't even break a nail...

The connectors are tricky to get a part... tiny screw drivers help.

speedydog
04-12-08, 06:04 PM
Did you remove the lower motor mount bolt and lower the front of the engine cradle? It should've been a piece of cake. I can do both in about 20 mins.
AJ has a procedure in tech tips that works really nice. Anyway, congrats on a job well done. :thumbsup:.

:eek: what a rip!
I'll do for 1/2 that much and still feel like I'm overcharging. Once the engine at opeating temp, It takes like 10 seconds. I guess you have to pay for the overhead. Also the Tech2 is not cheap, over 3k for one.

Does anybody know if the aftermarket scanners have this feature?

I tried to remove the mount removed all the bolts to it but it wouldent shift anywhere i wound up just jammin my hand up there blind and let out a bunch of curse words ,but anyway i got it

FrankT
04-15-08, 09:35 PM
Speedydog, Sub, Ur7x.
Thanks for the responses guys, let me clarify a little. Removing the front lower motor mount bolt allows the front subframe to come down a couple extra inches. The exta couple inches gives additional acess to the sensors. I didn't mean removing the front motor mount.

As far as the Tech2 goes, I know its very expensive, for the do it yourself tech. The after market scanners have a lot of missing parameters and are very limited to what they can see and do as compared to the Tech2. I have never seen one that was able to do a cranklearn.

I can't see that any engine damage can happen by resetting engine control parameters by using the Tech2. There are safety controls built into the ECM. If any of the Tech2 output controls have a potential of causing engine damage, then the output timer would exit the device control for xx seconds. The output control timer is part of the software in the ECM.