Before I start, just want to acknowledge what a useful, informative, and witty forum this is. I have come to realize that there is a "core" of contributers to this site who are passionate about CTS ownership, who do not like to hear negative feedback, and there are a few contribiters who may be exhibiting "sour grapes".
Nevertheless, I want To giVe my honest opinion of CTS ownership after just over 3 months of owning a Platinum non-DI, MANUAL, FE2, BOSE 5.1, and sunroof-equipped CTS. I came into Cadillac ownership eagerly after 19 years oF various Acura and Honda ownership. When I saw the CTS in January 2007 in Detroit...it was love at first sight. I was determined to get one...in fact be the first in Toronto to get one. I finally orderd one in early August, and through a comedy of errors (dealers mistake), finally took delivery on December 21, 2007.
Let's face it, there is no other car that looks like like it on the road today. It is simply stunning, and at night with the interior ambient lighting and exterior HID's...it's beautiful. The engine is powerful, the fit and finish is very good, and at every stop light...I get an ego boost with many an admiring (envious?) glance! Now that is the great part.
The disappointing part, which is slowly wearing away at me...and has had me visiting the ACURA dealer to investigate the 2009 TSX...has not subsided.
I was willing to concede that there might be "new car glitches" present, and I tried my best not to compare apples to oranges (i.e. Acura to Cadillac).
In the first 3 months the following has happened:
1) The radio/HDD/XM unit has "died" several times. I now know to stop the car for several minutes to re-boot. The dealer claims to have fixed this...but it still occurs occasionally.
2) My sunroof shade came out of its track and fell into the interior. A replacement "spring" took 2 weeks to arrive at the dealer. The shade still flaps on one side if a side window is open while driving.
3) The sunroof will not "express close", and in fact will open again on it;s own before fully closing.
4)There is an annoying buzz eminating from the console (I have Sappelle wood) at highway speed which stops if I put my hand on it. The dealer actually said this was normal !!!???
5) There has been odd creaks and rattles coming from the passenger "b" piller and roof area. The dealer claimed to have secured a loose part...however the sound is still there
6) There ia a 1/4" blemish on the trunk lid, which the dealer paint expert says is dust in the paint...advises to leave it be...although I know it's there I do not want to get into sanding and new paint work.
7) The driver's door lock occasionally "jammed" and I would have to open the door from the passenger side...the dealer said there was a service bulletin out on thes issue...and repaired the problem

So...my experience so far...I love driving the car, it is fast, poweful , smooth and carries alot of prestige. The little annoyances reduce an expected 9 or 10 out of 10 to a "7". I hate the buzzing on the highway, rattling on bumps and the overall feeling that the electronics might not be up to snuff as the casre ages. My buddy just bought a 2008 Chevy Malibu LTZ...it drives and sounds like "buttah"!
The dealer service manager reminds me that the CTS will feel more like a "Corvette" then a luxury car...O.K. fair dues. But I cannot help thinking that my 2004 TSX was bullet-proof and perfectly quiet after 4 years...and was never taken in for any warrnaty work of the magnitude I have experienced with my new "love affair".
I guess time will tell how long this marriage lasts...but my eye is twitching and I am doing my best not to allow it to wander!

Would I consider a brand change based on my experience?

Sounds like the dealer isn't properly addressing the issues. Is there another dealer you could try? This has helped me in the past.

There's always a chance small problems will crop up during your ownership. IMHO, how the dealer resolves these issues is what really matters, and in your case, it sounds like your dealer isn't doing a great job in that regard. Then there's the comment about the CTS feeling like a Corvette and not a luxury car - not sure where he's going with that. I would consider bringing your car in to another dealership, to see if they can help resolve some of the issues you've encountered. Regarding the blemish in the paint, did you notice that before you took delivery? If not, that's unfortunate - it'd probably have been worth refusing delivery with that.

As far as your buddy and his Malibu - while a nice car, I don't think you'd ever get the same joy from driving the Malibu as you do from the CTS. Plus, you can't get it in a manual - those stupid paddle shifters don't even come close.

If you read through some of the messages on the board, you'll find a lot of people have similar issues to the ones you do, and they've dealt with them, with varying degrees of success.

I've had my CTS (Blue Chip, DI, Manual, Performance Package, Sight & Sound Package) about a month, and so far I'm happy. I've heard the odd rattle from time to time, though I don't know if it was just something in the back seat, or maybe I'm just hearing things after reading the problems posted here. I don't like the manual transmission as much as my Cobalt SS, but it's getting better, so long as I don't try to drive it like the Cobalt :) I got the 6 disc changer instead of the 5.1 system, and I'm really happy about that after reading some of the issues with the 5.1 systems - I think there's probably some bugs to work out with those units still (what would you expect with Microsoft software?). In your case, I'd ask the dealer to swap the radio unit, since it's obviously not been fixed.

If I had a similar experience, yeah, I may consider switching. I really think you should look into another dealer first, before giving up, though. I think these issues are easily fixed, and the sooner they are, the better your ownership experience will be.

I already posted my opinion recently in another thread regarding problems with the CTS.
It's very interesting that you mentioned you came from Acura. So did I.

I was grossly afraid that I was stepping down from a dependable Japanese brand to
American --- something I swore I would never done. However, like you, I found the
Cadillac ride to be something rather unique and even superior to the Acura.

If I had all your problems would I consider a brand change? Well, to be honest, YES.
It's easy for me to sit here with a problem-free CTS and say that "it's one of those things
that happens" but if all those things (and that is quite a list) were happening to me, I would
consider changing brands.

If I were in your shoes, the only thing that would save my loyalty to Cadillac would be
the manner in which the dealership treated you through this ordeal and was able to fix
the problem. Thus far it seems your luck with the dealership has been less than admirable.

Before giving up I would second the advice of going to another dealer and hope they
can do what your original dealer could not.

Would I consider a brand change based on my experience?

Cadillac was once and wants to be again the World Standard. In that case, the answer is quite clear - Yes.

I already posted my opinion recently in another thread regarding problems with the CTS.
It's very interesting that you mentioned you came from Acura. So did I.

I was grossly afraid that I was stepping down from a dependable Japanese brand to
American --- something I swore I would never done. However, like you, I found the
Cadillac ride to be something rather unique and even superior to the Acura.

If I had all your problems would I consider a brand change? Well, to be honest, YES.
It's easy for me to sit here with a problem-free CTS and say that "it's one of those things
that happens" but if all those things (and that is quite a list) were happening to me, I would
consider changing brands.

If I were in your shoes, the only thing that would save my loyalty to Cadillac would be
the manner in which the dealership treated you through this ordeal and was able to fix
the problem. Thus far it seems your luck with the dealership has been less than admirable.

[brief threadjack]

NJRonbo,

I was expecting a lengthy dissertation from you about what you loved about the CTS and your inital thoughts on everything.....did I miss it??? :hmm:

[/threadjack done]

08,

I have been slowly expressing my love for this vehicle in various posts.

I dunno. I kind of feel like anything I post may get lost in the shuffle of other
great testimonials on this forum.

What I would rather do is wait for the "newbies" to this forum who are
considering their first purchase and then shower them with love.

08,

I have been slowly expressing my love for this vehicle in various posts.

I dunno. I kind of feel like anything I post may get lost in the shuffle of other
great testimonials on this forum.

What I would rather do is wait for the "newbies" to this forum who are
considering their first purchase and then shower them with love.

No worries..

If you wanted to make sure it didn't get lost, you should start a new post with it.

Acuraman, don't get disheartened. There is absolutely no other car on the road that takes one's breath away as the CTS. As I've posted on other threads, I have had various problems with the car. It will be at the Dealer's for the 3rd time in a month come this Tuesday. The dealer is actually coming to my office and dropping off a comparable loaner for me to drive while my car is in the shop. As mentioned, impeccable customer service is another reason to keep me from "straying" and having a wandering eye. Hang in there, it will most definitely be worth your while. I know that is the posture I am taking. Chalk it up to first run models.

Needed to point out as far as your sunroof is concerned.....have the dealer check the deflector. I had the same exact problem with my roof. Would nearly get to the point of closing and would immediately reverse itself and open. Then, it began to happen when opening....it would close itself instead of opening. Upon the 2nd visit to the shop for the same problem, the dealer was perplexed. They contacted GM to no avail. At that point, they had parked another CTS directly next to mine; opened the roofs and noticed my roof was slightly cocked. Apparently, some type of a rubber mount was missing. At that point, they decided to replace the entire deflector. Works like a charm!

Again, it all comes down to service. As suggested by another member, try an alternate dealer in your area...it will do wonders! Hope this helps. Hang in there and good luck! ;)

To you AcuraPhiles I offer a counterpoint which is why I switch brands away from Acura. I bought a first Model year MDX and it had a number of niggling but not horrible problems. It was the second Honda product I have owned and had similar experiences with both. The MDX was expensive due to being in high demand and was Motor Trends Luxury SUV of the Year. My real problems with my two Honda products was the "chintz" factor and poor initial year quality problems. My CTS, on the otherhand, has been flawless and the best appointed vehicle I have ever owned.

My point here is our vehicle opinions are the result of our direct experience with a particular brand. In my case Acura bad - Cadillac good. In the case of this thread starter: Acura good - Cadilllac bad. Who is right? Both of our experiences are anecdotal based upon personal experience not statistical data. I would be much more swayed by Mr. Karesh's survey results on the 08CTS or what JD Power survey results have to say about either brand before saying which is truly a better car right now. But based upon my limited but very personal experience, the CTS wins hands down.

I am another convert from Acura to the CTS! I had two Acuras before my first generation '03 CTS--and the first Acura was a "Legend L Coupe," and it was a "very good" car. The next one was a "3.0 CL Coupe," and it was problem-plagued. Same dealer, many repeat trips for the same problems, etc. My '03 and '08 CTS's have been "great" cars, and so has my Cadillac dealer! I hope the reliability and lack of problems keeps up with this '08, because now, with the better Spring weather, I am finally starting to drive it daily. (I just wanted to keep it "new" and "salt-free" for the first few months.) So far, everything has been perfect, and I would definitely buy the same car again! :thumbsup:

My Honest Summary of CTS ownership

1 *
2
3
4 There won't be any more than 3 entries in 12 months or I will sell the car. Unlike some, I don't put up with BS.
5
6
7


*My battery failed. From the time I called until the time they waved goodbye was less than 60 minutes.
Most surveys do not include Tires and Batterys.
GM did survey me tho as they wanted to know how the service was.
I gave them all 5s.
Outstanding.


Acura?
Well, I value a car partially based on Recalls.
I did NOT buy my daughter a Focus because of this.
Before anybody buys an Acura, they should check the recall history.
There has already been a recall on the 2008 Acura.
Nothing as severe as a radio problem, just the usual Fire under the hood.........

When you put down a nice piece of change for a CTS you expect something that won't tee you off. To have that many issues is a real bummer. I have not had anything happen in the first 4500 miles. I guess I may have gotten a good one even if it was in the first 5000 to be manufactured.

my transmission went out and left me stranded far away from home...i understand where you're coming from. Cadillac should've had its act together and actually put some money into making sure this car doesn't have the problems of other American cars. If they want to be mentioned in the same breath as BMW or Mercedez, or even Lexus and Acura, they need to get their shit together.

my transmission went out and left me stranded far away from home...i understand where you're coming from. Cadillac should've had its act together and actually put some money into making sure this car doesn't have the problems of other American cars. If they want to be mentioned in the same breath as BMW or Mercedez, or even Lexus and Acura, they need to get their shit together.

What data do you have that suggests the 2008 CTS is any worse than BMW, Mercedes, Lexus or Acura? In any given year, every model from every manufacturer is going to have some issues - so far, I've not seen anything to suggest the CTS is any better or worse than any other manufacturer. It's unfortunate you've had issues, however, the majority of people have not, and I'm sure there's been a BMW or Mercedes owner who's had a similar issue this past year.

my transmission went out and left me stranded far away from home...i understand where you're coming from. Cadillac should've had its act together and actually put some money into making sure this car doesn't have the problems of other American cars. If they want to be mentioned in the same breath as BMW or Mercedez, or even Lexus and Acura, they need to get their shit together.

Oh come on, BMW and Mercedes are the most problem plagued cars on the market. Ask anyone who owns one. Then look at the auto issue of Consumer Reports. I wouldn't want Cadillac to be mentioned in the same breath with them. This will be my 5th year in a CTS and it has been almost completely problem free (except for problems of my own making).

If they want to be mentioned in the same breath as BMW or Mercedez, or even Lexus and Acura, they need to get their shit together.

These are the comments that make me a little crazy! :bonkers: Granted, Lexus and Acura have a reputation for pretty good if not great reliability (generally speaking). But when comments are made that "Cadillac better get its act together if it wants to compete with BMW, Mercedes" is insane. Have you heard about the overheating problems with BMW's 300hp turbo six? How about the horrendous reliability of various Mercedes products over the last few years, most in particular the M-Class? Infinity has the troublesome QX56, and Lexus even had issues with the new generation GS300.

This is my first American car in quite awhile, and have had plenty of Japanese and German makes, and none of them were without some issues. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely....but that goes to most other makes as well.

Oh come on, BMW and Mercedes are the most problem plagued cars on the market. Ask anyone who owns one. Then look at the auto issue of Consumer Reports. I wouldn't want Cadillac to be mentioned in the same breath with them. This will be my 5th year in a CTS and it has been almost completely problem free (except for problems of my own making).

Interesting thread.
I'm going to give my wife my Acura (2007 RDX) to replace her 2005 C230 Benz because the lease is up next month and so I can get a CTS.
We had to special order the Benz to get all the options. We have had 3 trouble free years with the car. Not one unscheduled service visit, ever.

Had I listened to the people complaining on MBWorld.org we never would have considered the car because they were so unhappy, instead we had a wonderful experience.

Just a different opinion. Your mileage may vary.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand

Take a close look at the Cadillac and Acura lines. Nuff said. Dependability over the long term is really whats important.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-category/entry-premium-car

Or how bout this. You can tell me all about how great youre Acura was and thats fine. Go get you a sweet Acura and happy motoring and when youre done Ill come to youre Acura website and extoll the virtues of my Cadillac.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-forum-2008-beyond/134532-attn-08-cts-owners-please-support.html

my honest summary of 08 CTS

Acuraman - its unfortunate that you are encountering so many problems with your CTS. Especuially considering how high your initial excitement and enthusiasm was. We have similar vehicles in the sense that both are the rare combination of manual and non-DI. And I believe we purchased from the same dealer. However, my CTS is very stripped down with almost no options aside from the 18' wheels and fog lights. I have encountered no issues with my vehicle so far - one might hypothesize that this has something to do with the simplicity of my option package?

I've been reading this forum for nearly 2 years. I had myself convinced to buy a CTS sedan even though I'm a coupe lover until I saw the coupe debut. While I think the sedan is a beautiful car I believe the coupe will be an absolute stunner when placed into ptoduction. My reason for this post is that I too am an Acura guy. The two best cars I have ever owned were an 89 Legend coupe which I owned for 5 years and an 02 MDX which I've owned for going on 6 years. The Acura dealer in town is also a Caddy dealer, so every time I take the MDX in for scheduled maintainence I stop in at the Caddy store. After reading some of the posts in this forum I must admit to being a little concerned about the American Cadillac product. I'm hoping that the problems are due to the new generation CTS and will be worked out by 09, but then that begs the quesion what new problems will the coupe have in late 09. Will there be more teething problems with that. The bottom line to all of this is that nothing is going to dissuade me from buying the coupe in 09 and if it's a lemon then I'll have to live with it. The CTS, in sedan and coupe form is the most beautiful car on the road today. BMW, M/B, Audi, Lexus, Infinity and Acura have all paled in styling comparison to this gorgeous automoble.

Acuraman:

Sorry your dealer seems to be unreliable. Any brand or model car can have issues. You seem to have an unfair number with this one? All are not major though and a good dealership should correct them on a first visit, and must correct them when a second visit is required. Find a different dealer or if you would like. I have some personal (high)contacts at that dealership. (although I didn't buy mine there??) If you contact me via personal post I can maybe help. If not, find a different dealership and explain your frustrations to the Service Manager and/or General Manager they should jump to get your business.:thumbsup:


The CTS is way to great a car... to miss your satisfaction!:yup:


PS. I have 15000km on mine and only one issue small issue with sunroof alignment, which was quickly fixed. As far as the radio mine needs to reboot about 1 or 2x every 3 months just like my home computer. (I tend to push the how many things can you do at once... alot.) I feel its a normal computer thing?:suspense:

When they start building Acura dealerships without repair shops in them, then I will buy an Acura. Thing is, I notice they all have service shops and they are full all day with Acuras. I owned Acuras for 10 years. Loved them. Had problems like any car, just not as many. Problem was they became so bland. Drove my friends CL for a day. Nice car, but I don't like FWD unless I'm in a foot of snow. Definitely had torque steer when I had to floor it once. Didn't have the power of my '04 CTS. Definitely didn't have the interior of my '08 CTS. Everyone talks about the problems in the '08. I'm not having any. Everything works just fine. Are these problem posts from Lexus salesman? I don't know for sure. The problem with posts are you don't know why someone says something bad. Do they have ulterior motives? I only believe problem posts from people I have seen on this board for a long time or have many 'posts'. If you have 2 posts, you are suspect. Granted no one is building perfect cars. Just quit saying that Cadillac needs to get their act together. They already did. They, like everyone else, are building cars for the masses. So there will always be individuals who will gripe that they didn't build the car just for them. Then they nitpick that there should have been automatic de-orderizers and since there weren't, GM and Cadillac should get their act together.

In summary;
!. The CTS is a great car, as are many other cars.
2. My dealership treats me like a king.
3. My '08 had been problem free.
4. I wish gas was $1.50 a gallon

You first need to find a Dealer with GREAT technicians. Not all dealers have them. As they can be few and far between. These newer vehicles are very complicated and highly technical machines. Understanding of electronics and networking is fast becoming a required skill. Noises and rattles are a easy fix and if your dealer can't handle that they most certainly will not be able to handle the tougher problems you encounter.

I also would ask to talk with the best tech that they have about your problems. And ONLY road test with him for any noise issues, so that he confirms the sound that you hear. When you put a service writer between you and the tech, a lot of information is not past on. Also when you get more personal with a your tech he will take more pride in satisfying your needs.

If you can't find a dealer that can help you take the money that you will lose by trading in or selling and find a top INEPENDENT repair shop to address your issues. Yes there a many that are more then qualified to fix your car.

What data do you have that suggests the 2008 CTS is any worse than BMW, Mercedes, Lexus or Acura? In any given year, every model from every manufacturer is going to have some issues - so far, I've not seen anything to suggest the CTS is any better or worse than any other manufacturer. It's unfortunate you've had issues, however, the majority of people have not, and I'm sure there's been a BMW or Mercedes owner who's had a similar issue this past year.

I'm sure there has, but I see a lot of people unhappy on this board. It is unacceptable for a brand new car to leave you stranded. The reason I bought this car is so I would have a reliable car, but it turns out that after owning my 99 Maxima since 2003, that car has never done anything like that. I'm not supposed to be worried that my brand new car will take a shit on me. My family owns 3 BMWs, and an Infiniti. None of them ever had problems like this. Nothing even close.


Oh come on, BMW and Mercedes are the most problem plagued cars on the market. Ask anyone who owns one. Then look at the auto issue of Consumer Reports. I wouldn't want Cadillac to be mentioned in the same breath with them. This will be my 5th year in a CTS and it has been almost completely problem free (except for problems of my own making).

Well, I'm glad you haven't experienced anything like I have, and like my above post says, 3 people in my family own BMWs, and i have a friend who owns a BMW.

These are the comments that make me a little crazy! :bonkers: Granted, Lexus and Acura have a reputation for pretty good if not great reliability (generally speaking). But when comments are made that "Cadillac better get its act together if it wants to compete with BMW, Mercedes" is insane. Have you heard about the overheating problems with BMW's 300hp turbo six? How about the horrendous reliability of various Mercedes products over the last few years, most in particular the M-Class? Infinity has the troublesome QX56, and Lexus even had issues with the new generation GS300.

This is my first American car in quite awhile, and have had plenty of Japanese and German makes, and none of them were without some issues. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely....but that goes to most other makes as well.


My brother has a 300hp turbo, and no I haven't heard of those problems. I don't know much about Mercedez, but Acura and Lexus are made by Honda and Toyota. Toyota is the most reliable car company.

All I'm saying is that a brand new car no matter if it's a Benz or a Kia shouldn't leave you stranded. And when talking about them being as of the same quality of BMW or Mercedez I was more or less referring to the first post where he listed problems like rattles & creaking and stuff like that which I've also noticed. Or just some poor quality from when they were assembling the car. To me, it just seems that they might have rushed producing this car or something. I love how it drives, but there are lots of kinks it seems with this car, nothing big, but it's the small things that matter.

But it is something big when ur car straight dies on u on the freeway.

I guess the first guy was right about some CTS owners who don't like to hear anything negative about their Caddys.

"I guess the first guy was right about some CTS owners who don't like to hear anything negative about their Caddys."

No. That's not it.
We don't like hearing it over and over again as if it is widespread.

We are all sorry that you had a problem.

However by now you SHOULD have figured out that it is NOT a common problem and we get tired of hearing about it over and over and over agan.

"I guess the first guy was right about some CTS owners who don't like to hear anything negative about their Caddys."

No. That's not it.
We don't like hearing it over and over again as if it is widespread.

We are all sorry that you had a problem.

However by now you SHOULD have figured out that it is NOT a common problem and we get tired of hearing about it over and over and over agan.


I understand. I didn't know it's not a widespread problem because others have experienced the same thing. At least 5 people on here have. But I'm sure you'd be mad too if this happened to you.

I'm a newbie to this forum (and I'm enjoying reading everyone's posts), but I wanted to give you my experience...I'm a former BMW 330CI owner (and I loved that car...I mean really _loved_ it), and when I saw the new 08 CTS, I just _knew_ I had to have one. No other manufacturer today (other GM brands included) gets style like Cadillac with (right now anyway) 2 cars alone...the 08 CTS (& 09 V) and the Escalade. Sure, bimmers are nice, but they have gotten bland and emotionless.

OK, for my experience so far, I have been more than pleased. I was a little unsure about buying an american made car again (even though my grandfather worked for GM his entire life), but I have to say that on performance and quality, my CTS is on par, if not better in some ways than my 330. I've had it 3 months now and other than one little nagging problem with the passenger side rear mirror reverting to a downward position even though I have set it's memory location, I have no complaints. I'll take it in to my local dealer soon about that problem, but I consider it to be minor. Even with my BMW, I had problems that had to be resolved.

Overall, this car is fantastic, and Cadillac gained a new and very happy customer in me. I also echo the sentiments of others on this thread, by all means, go to another dealer. All dealers are not alike (with all manufacturers).

Jason

So how many tens of thousands of 08 CTSes have been sold? How many owners of those CTSes have ever heard of cadillacforums.com? Can you count the number of actual forum members who have complained about the same "quality problem" with your 10 fingers and 10 toes?

Given this information, lock yourself in a small room with no light except an exposed light bulb hanging from the ceiling and do some serious research and number crunching THEN come on here, climb on your soapbox, and make your grand pronouncements about GM or Cadillac quality. And use current information, not some tired old (and out-of-date) stereotypical anti-American car drivel from 10-15 years ago. :headcase:

All tongue-in-cheek stuff aside, just between you and me, the people who post here go out of their way to become members of the forum probably because they have a vested interest (e.g. fanboys, haters, people in the market for a car in this segment, people who genuinely want to help fellow forum members, et al) and come with a certain amount of passion and tend to be very opinionated. In other words, the posts you see here DO NOT represent the experience of all or even most 08 CTS owners. Not saying the problems aren't real, but the way human nature works, you usually hear first from the vocally negative.

So...most everything here is informative and often entertaining, but as the old saying goes, "trust but verify" and give GM/Cadillac a chance to address any of your issues (and remember, the world does not revolve around you--even though you feel like it does by virtue of your heavy, $40,000+ investment in a car...A CAR!). LOL :D

I think its hilarious for people to say the name Acura in the same sentance with BMW, MB lol. Acura's known for their sweet ricers lol. Acura cant even be considered as a true luxury car devision....not a single vehicle has even an available V8. Acura and Honda for that matter dont even have one in the stable. Acura's are and always have been pretty Hondas, a company created to sucker dumb Americans into paying a bit more for an Accord. As for Acura quality.........its called JDPower.

I think its hilarious for people to say the name Acura in the same sentance with BMW, MB lol. Acura's known for their sweet ricers lol. Acura cant even be considered as a true luxury car devision....not a single vehicle has even an available V8. Acura and Honda for that matter dont even have one in the stable. Acura's are and always have been pretty Hondas, a company created to sucker dumb Americans into paying a bit more for an Accord. As for Acura quality.........its called JDPower.

Not correct, sir. As an Acura owner myself (have always been until this car), lacking a V8 doesn't denote a lower level car. Acura produced the highest specific-output motor ever, at one point. The 1.8L B18C5 in the 1997 Integra Type-R bested even Ferrari at the time. Where did our beloved system of variable valve timing and lift debut? That's right, Acura. If you measure the quality and performance of a car strictly by it's engine displacement, you would probably believe that Ferrari makes real s*itboxes.

By the way, burning rice is very eco-friendly.

Not correct, sir. As an Acura owner myself (have always been until this car), lacking a V8 doesn't denote a lower level car. Acura produced the highest specific-output motor ever, at one point. The 1.8L B18C5 in the 1997 Integra Type-R bested even Ferrari at the time. Where did our beloved system of variable valve timing and lift debut? That's right, Acura. If you measure the quality and performance of a car strictly by it's engine displacement, you would probably believe that Ferrari makes real s*itboxes.

Not True, Sir. A V8 is a symbol, something that graces the hoods etc of only middle to upper range vehicles. Companies that make there money on the selling of economy 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines dont exactly command the respect of wealthier clients. Ferrari, yes uses smaller engines in terms of displacement but honestly how many cylinders does Ferrari use? Yes 8 or 12 not 4 or optinal 6. 4 cylinder engines are the calling card of lower end automobiles. You happen to notice that Cadillac, MB, BMW dont use 4 cylinder engines (In the USA) because people expect more out of one of those cars. Its a simple fact Acura are super happy Hondas, nothing more. O and sweet comment about the Integra, Yes, discontinued but wow I sure didnt see BMW, Caddy or MB building Rice master's dream car. Im really not trying to insult those who drive them or have owned them. They are seriously great cars in terms of reliability but lets be honest Acura is at the bottom of the luxury car market in terms of name. They are also as exciting as a Lifetime television. You should see the list of the various things Cadillac has given us in the industry.

Not correct, sir. As an Acura owner myself (have always been until this car), lacking a V8 doesn't denote a lower level car. Acura produced the highest specific-output motor ever, at one point. The 1.8L B18C5 in the 1997 Integra Type-R bested even Ferrari at the time. Where did our beloved system of variable valve timing and lift debut? That's right, Acura. If you measure the quality and performance of a car strictly by it's engine displacement, you would probably believe that Ferrari makes real s*itboxes.

By the way, burning rice is very eco-friendly.

The problem (IMHO) with the Honda/Acura Vtec motors is that you have to rev the crap out of them to get any HP's. In a highly urbanized area like Los Angeles, waiting for the turbo to spool up or the engine to rev past 5500 RPM does not work very well - especially in left turn situations. High specific out put is only good if you can use it.

FWIW: I loved my 330Ci, but it sprent more time in the shop than any other car I've owned. And not for some niggling window or trim issues, but major drivability & electrical problems. Free Lattes and doughnuts only go so far.

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Not True, Sir. A V8 is a symbol, something that graces the hoods etc of only middle to upper range vehicles. Companies that make there money on the selling of economy 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines dont exactly command the respect of wealthier clients. Ferrari, yes uses smaller engines in terms of displacement but honestly how many cylinders does Ferrari use? Yes 8 or 12 not 4 or optinal 6. 4 cylinder engines are the calling card of lower end automobiles. You happen to notice that Cadillac, MB, BMW dont use 4 cylinder engines (In the USA) because people expect more out of one of those cars. Its a simple fact Acura are super happy Hondas, nothing more. O and sweet comment about the Integra, Yes, discontinued but wow I sure didnt see BMW, Caddy or MB building Rice master's dream car. Im really not trying to insult those who drive them or have owned them. They are seriously great cars in terms of reliability but lets be honest Acura is at the bottom of the luxury car market in terms of name. They are also as exciting as a Lifetime television. You should see the list of the various things Cadillac has given us in the industry.

I conceide your pointn regarding V8's, it is just my contention that Acura cars are built more for the performance-minded enthusiast than the other "affordable" luxury cars. I am not saying that a TL is a 335i, but I am saying that in the price range (read: Acura, Infiniti, Lexus), Acura is always going to be the more nimble, agile, enthusiasts car. They make incredibly rigid chassis and high-tech powerplants, along with excellent creature comforts. By no menas a dressed up Honda, only the inherent reliability of one.

I conceide your pointn regarding V8's, it is just my contention that Acura cars are built more for the performance-minded enthusiast than the other "affordable" luxury cars. I am not saying that a TL is a 335i, but I am saying that in the price range (read: Acura, Infiniti, Lexus), Acura is always going to be the more nimble, agile, enthusiasts car. They make incredibly rigid chassis and high-tech powerplants, along with excellent creature comforts. By no menas a dressed up Honda, only the inherent reliability of one.

I agree with you completely that Acura is aimed more at an "enthusiast" than a regular Honda. Dont forget that the TL is just the European Accord. Im also curious to know which "other affordable luxury cars" you were refering to?

I agree with you completely that Acura is aimed more at an "enthusiast" than a regular Honda. Dont forget that the TL is just the European Accord. Im also curious to know which "other affordable luxury cars" you were refering to?

The TSX, Acura's lowest priced car is the Euro Accord, not the TL. I was referring to entry-level cars, and now that I think about it, the RL, top of Acura's line in cars, is really no match for the top of any other luxury marque's line. Acura DOES really shine in the lower end of the line. Does that mean they are a Luxury Tween brand? Near-Luxury? I don't know. I'm sick of arguing this, I just have and always will love Acuras.:hide:

Acura(Honda) was the most luxurious car from Japan until Toyota and Nissan branded their new names (Lexus and Infinity).
Acura was approching the luxury market carefully and opened market for other car manufactures from Japan. However, Lexus and Infinity approched the customer aggresively... Acura is not lower than any other brand.

But, why do we compare our CTS with other car in here?

Why not? Often Times people are cross shopping them........I cross shopped BMW, MB, Infinity and Lexus. I will admit that just from "observation" I considered Acura to be a half level beneath Infinity....
I obviously thought the CTS had the better balance of attributes.