: 2000 SLS uses 1qt oil every 500mi - Should I be worried???



fleetwood96
04-11-08, 02:24 PM
Hi Everyone, we bought a 2000 SLS last October with about 83,000 miles on it and for the past several months, it has been saying "Check oil level" on the DIC every 500 miles or so. The car doesn't drip any oil and there's no unusual smoke out the tailpipe, but I think it still must be burning oil. Other than than the expense and aggrivation of adding oil every few weeks, so I need to be worried about my engine blowing up or needing to have a major overhaul in the near future? I've been reading that a qt every 1000 is not unusual for Northstar engines, but this really does seem excessive to me. Any opinions out there? Also, if it does end up going south, does anyone know if it is an easy swap to take a 2000 (or newer?) base Deville or DHS engine (the 275hp version) and put it in the SLS, or do I need another SLS engine to make the swap easily. Also, I wasn't sure if a newer than 2000 engine would work properly or if there are enough subtle changes (transmission, computer, chassis, etc) to avoid putting something newer than what the car was designed for. Thanks-- Doug

dkozloski
04-11-08, 02:45 PM
The first thing you need to do is give it some wide open throttle blasts as outlined in the "Technical Archive".

C&C
04-11-08, 04:32 PM
Yep, that's excessive. Your catalytic converter is processing the burnt oil (but this won't last forever and eventually will foul it). It does sound like you may have the dreaded 'carboned up' piston rings and it might be corrected or helped by following "dk's" suggestion for the throttle blasts. GM also makes a good decarbonizer that should help with carbon deposits/problems.

Ranger
04-11-08, 04:45 PM
The engine is not going south. Take it out and drive it like you stole it, as advised.

Destroyer
04-11-08, 06:26 PM
Yeah, using a quart of oil every 500 miles is a good thing. Wonder when the Japanese manufacturers will catch on to this clever engineering. See, by using a quart of oil so frequently you get to ADD another NEW quart therefore you are constantly replenishing the motor with fresh oil. Neat huh?

fleetwood96
04-11-08, 07:08 PM
I have read about the Wide-Open-Throttle starts every once in a while helping to keep the engine clean. The car now has 88k on it so I was concerned about running it hard with that many miles. I'll also check into the de-carbonizer. Is that stuff the kind you run through the gas tank?

dkozloski
04-11-08, 07:26 PM
Yeah, using a quart of oil every 500 miles is a good thing. Wonder when the Japanese manufacturers will catch on to this clever engineering. See, by using a quart of oil so frequently you get to ADD another NEW quart therefore you are constantly replenishing the motor with fresh oil. Neat huh?
Back under the bridge.

dkozloski
04-11-08, 07:27 PM
I have read about the Wide-Open-Throttle starts every once in a while helping to keep the engine clean. The car now has 88k on it so I was concerned about running it hard with that many miles. I'll also check into the de-carbonizer. Is that stuff the kind you run through the gas tank?
85K is no milage at all. WOT is the answer for your problem.

JimD
04-11-08, 07:33 PM
I have read about the Wide-Open-Throttle starts every once in a while helping to keep the engine clean. The car now has 88k on it so I was concerned about running it hard with that many miles....

Your engine is just comfortably broken-in at that mileage. My engine is treated to agressive WOT therapy at least once per month!

If I see a serious cloud in the mirror, I repeat the therapy until the cloud does not appear.

Destroyer
04-11-08, 07:33 PM
The engine is not going south. Take it out and drive it like you stole it, as advised.You are encouraging him to beat on his car, and this will solve problems by doing what?. How will blowing out carbon make his car not burn oil?. This isn't sarcasm, I really want to know!. I understand the benefits of WOT once in awhile but not how it can fix burning oil. If its the rings WOT would only make things worse. Seriously guys, the answer to every problem in this forum is always "check the purge line" or "WOT". Sometimes things aren't so simple.

dkozloski
04-11-08, 07:40 PM
You are encouraging him to beat on his car, and this will solve problems by doing what?. How will blowing out carbon make his car not burn oil?. This isn't sarcasm, I really want to know!. I understand the benefits of WOT once in awhile but not how it can fix burning oil. If its the rings WOT would only make things worse. Seriously guys, the answer to every problem in this forum is always "check the purge line" or "WOT". Sometimes things aren't so simple.
Destroyer, it's a real shame that your propensity to mouth off on every subject under the sun prevents you from doing your own research in the most obvious places. I direct your attention to the section at the top of the page labeled "Cadillac Technical Archive" and the appropriate section, http://www.cadillacforums.com/cadillac-tech.html#noil

I suggest that you read this entire department through as it will answer a lot of your questions.

dkozloski
04-11-08, 07:56 PM
Destroyer, I apologize for getting on your case but you and LennyLincoln are a disruptive influence on the guys that have a genuine concern about getting the most out of their cars and the guys that are trying to help and educate them. You throw out opinions but you haven't done your research or established your credentials. As a distraction you're all negatives. Read the technical information available on the site, listen to the guys with years of Cadilac experience and your ignorance and inexperience may be remediated.

Submariner409
04-11-08, 07:58 PM
I would strongly advise the OP to leave this twisted thread, do as dkoz advised in #11, and spend the evening calling back CF threads of interest. There are many good and valid reasons for the advice given your oil consumption question. You are, in no way, the first Northstar owner to ask about excessive oil usage. GM and CF members have literally written books on the subject, and you have been steered in generally the right direction by those who own Cadillacs of various vintage.

After having spent the better part of an afternoon going back in history to read a cross section of the Destroyer's posts, it's obvious that he haunts CF in order to live up to his oft-used smiley: "stir the pot".

Perhaps the best tack would be to totally ignore, pro or con, his generated distortion and get on with CF's primary goal: constructive criticism and transfer of information on Cadillac ownership.

Ranger
04-11-08, 09:20 PM
You are encouraging him to beat on his car, and this will solve problems by doing what?. How will blowing out carbon make his car not burn oil?. This isn't sarcasm, I really want to know!. I understand the benefits of WOT once in awhile but not how it can fix burning oil. If its the rings WOT would only make things worse. Seriously guys, the answer to every problem in this forum is always "check the purge line" or "WOT". Sometimes things aren't so simple.

You've been around here long enough to know the answer. Your problem is that you don't come here to learn anything or to help anyone out. Your sole purpose for being here seems be to bash Cadillacs and start arguments. I have no interest in that.

Destroyer
04-11-08, 09:24 PM
You've been around here long enough to know the answer. Your problem is that you don't come here to learn anything or to help anyone out. Your sole purpose for being here seems be to bash Cadillacs and start arguments. I have no interest in that.
All I'm asking is how WOT fixes oil burning. Blowing out carbon? Yes, but how does it fix burning of oil?. The thread is about his motor using a quart of oil every 500 miles, why would WOT fix that?.

dkozloski
04-11-08, 09:36 PM
Slow running and short trips can make the piston rings sticky in their grooves and obstruct drain holes in the pistons with stray carbon. A WOT blast or two will apply greater gas pressure to the backside of the rings and generally shake everything up. The heat in the upper piston will go up as well. This frees the rings and flushes the grooves. Contrary to popular opinion, a major part of the oil that gets to the combustion chamber does not pass between the rings and the cylinder walls but rather it goes by the rings and piston lands. WOT frees the rings and reduces this particular leakage. Read the technical archives Grasshopper.

Destroyer
04-11-08, 10:10 PM
Slow running and short trips can make the piston rings sticky in their grooves and obstruct drain holes in the pistons with stray carbon. A WOT blast or two will apply greater gas pressure to the backside of the rings and generally shake everything up. The heat in the upper piston will go up as well. This frees the rings and flushes the grooves. Contrary to popular opinion, a major part of the oil that gets to the combustion chamber does not pass between the rings and the cylinder walls but rather it goes by the rings and piston lands. WOT frees the rings and reduces this particular leakage. Read the technical archives Grasshopper.
Thank You:cool:

dkozloski
04-11-08, 10:37 PM
Thank You:cool:
You're more than welcome. Let's keep the civility going. We'll all do better if we can keep the technical and personal issues separated.

Destroyer
04-11-08, 11:08 PM
You're more than welcome. Let's keep the civility going. We'll all do better if we can keep the technical and personal issues separated.
You are right, just cause I feel the way I do about the N*'s (strongly) doesn't mean I should constantly be bashing them. I think I'm getting a grip on that. If someone asks for opinons, I will offer my honest opinion. If someone asks if it worth attempting the repair, I will offer my honest opinion. I wont however go and bash on them just for the sake of bashing on them. I know I get a little carried away, I just despised my '98 Deville and still wanna puke thinking about it.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-11-08, 11:19 PM
Even though I don't own a Northstar, I thoroughly appreciate the knowledge that DKoz, Ranger and Submariner have to offer on the Northstar. :) :yup:

dkozloski
04-11-08, 11:21 PM
You are right, just cause I feel the way I do about the N*'s (strongly) doesn't mean I should constantly be bashing them. I think I'm getting a grip on that. If someone asks for opinons, I will offer my honest opinion. If someone asks if it worth attempting the repair, I will offer my honest opinion. I wont however go and bash on them just for the sake of bashing on them. I know I get a little carried away, I just despised my '98 Deville and still wanna puke thinking about it.
A friend of mine bought a used Ford truck from the local Ford dealer. It didn't take long for him to find out that it had a sour motor. When he took it back to the dealer to complain he found out that the dealer had a side lot with a dozen other trucks all with the exact same sour motor. My friend got no help from the dealer and I wound up helping him get it overhauled. Every manufacturer has issues with some of their stuff that they wish had never happened. Cadillac listened and fixed their problems. Sometimes buyers with early units get burned.

dkozloski
04-11-08, 11:30 PM
It's worthwhile to note that Cadillac had some good, solid, engineered repairs available before the Northstar ever hit the market. Timeserts get criticism but there have been an awful lot of cars successfully repaired with them.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-11-08, 11:57 PM
Every manufacturer has issues with some of their stuff that they wish had never happened. Cadillac listened and fixed their problems. Sometimes buyers with early units get burned.

From my experience in the business, and what I've heard from coworkers who have worked for franchises that have sold for other manufacturers, GM has a pretty good record for helping customers out after the warranty expires. If a car meets three criteria from GM, I can factory warranty repairs (no, not bulbs, brakes or wipers) up to 50,000 miles on Chevrolets. Heck, we had a customer with an '03 or '04 Silverado 1500 that had the transmission go out on him just this week, and he had like 54k on it, but he got assistance from GM on it, and they paid for 1/2 of his repair!

I've got a coworker that wrote service at a few Dodge dealers back in the '80s and '90s and he said with Chrysler, when the warranty was up, you were SOL. They wouldn't do anything for you. And if a customer bought a used Chrysler product, and let's say it was still under the 3/36 factory warranty, they wouldn't be as leniant to warranty parts on it, because you weren't the original owner (not as loyal to the company). And from what I've heard, the foreign brands, for example Toyota and Hyundai, are much stricter about what they will and won't warranty.

I think GM does a pretty damn good job on customer service with late model cars. Maybe too good? People get used to GM helping out with their repairs then they get mad when they're out of the guidelines for Goodwill work then they bitch to us or GM when they have to start spending money on their car. :mad2::mad2::cookoo::cookoo:

God forbid! You actually have to pay money to maintain and repair your car! What a crime!

foos
04-14-08, 10:23 PM
My STS burns a quart every 500, and I WOT the thing almost every day. I know there's a problem somewhere and I just can't find it. I think some of the oil must be coming through the PCV because the inside of the intake manifold is covered with disgusting black goo. I know it's not leaking it. I wanted to try the ring clean procedure but can't remember the TSB # and it seems to have disappeared from the internet :P
And there is slightly too much black stuff on my exhaust pipes.. But it still runs fine and get 24mpg on the highway :)

dkozloski
04-14-08, 10:53 PM
My STS burns a quart every 500, and I WOT the thing almost every day. I know there's a problem somewhere and I just can't find it. I think some of the oil must be coming through the PCV because the inside of the intake manifold is covered with disgusting black goo. I know it's not leaking it. I wanted to try the ring clean procedure but can't remember the TSB # and it seems to have disappeared from the internet :P
And there is slightly too much black stuff on my exhaust pipes.. But it still runs fine and get 24mpg on the highway :)
Take a gander at this thread. It might be helpful.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/107135-river-runs-through.html

Destroyer
04-14-08, 10:58 PM
From my experience in the business, and what I've heard from coworkers who have worked for franchises that have sold for other manufacturers, GM has a pretty good record for helping customers out after the warranty expires. If a car meets three criteria from GM, I can factory warranty repairs (no, not bulbs, brakes or wipers) up to 50,000 miles on Chevrolets. Heck, we had a customer with an '03 or '04 Silverado 1500 that had the transmission go out on him just this week, and he had like 54k on it, but he got assistance from GM on it, and they paid for 1/2 of his repair!

I've got a coworker that wrote service at a few Dodge dealers back in the '80s and '90s and he said with Chrysler, when the warranty was up, you were SOL. They wouldn't do anything for you. And if a customer bought a used Chrysler product, and let's say it was still under the 3/36 factory warranty, they wouldn't be as leniant to warranty parts on it, because you weren't the original owner (not as loyal to the company). And from what I've heard, the foreign brands, for example Toyota and Hyundai, are much stricter about what they will and won't warranty.

I think GM does a pretty damn good job on customer service with late model cars. Maybe too good? People get used to GM helping out with their repairs then they get mad when they're out of the guidelines for Goodwill work then they bitch to us or GM when they have to start spending money on their car. :mad2::mad2::cookoo::cookoo:

God forbid! You actually have to pay money to maintain and repair your car! What a crime!
This is true. My buddy has an '02 Buick Rendezvous (is that right spelling?). Anyway he's had it since new and it now has 81k miles on it. Its had a knock in the motor on/off for years and he's had ongoing suspension problems. Believe it or not GM is STILL helping with the costs on many of these repairs which is cool but for some reason the dealership has been unable to fix these documented problems since the vechicle was under warranty. Its been a nightmare of a car for my friend with all the problems. Its got the corporate 3.4 litre.

Submariner409
04-14-08, 11:20 PM
foos.......post again, (my memory fails me) your car, year, engine, mileage, and symptoms. How do you know there's black goo inside the intake manifold ? (An honest question, no hassles...) There's no engineering reason for a N* to use oil at a quart/500 mile rate. With a little sleuthing, there's enough talent in here to make some worthwhile suggestions/solutions. You may have a problem, but throw it on the floor and give everyone a crack at it. (dkoz may be on the track........)

A forum is a forum is a forum: unless everyone knows the question and hidden questions, there are no answers.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-15-08, 01:53 AM
This is true. My buddy has an '02 Buick Rendezvous (is that right spelling?). Anyway he's had it since new and it now has 81k miles on it. Its had a knock in the motor on/off for years and he's had ongoing suspension problems. Believe it or not GM is STILL helping with the costs on many of these repairs which is cool but for some reason the dealership has been unable to fix these documented problems since the vechicle was under warranty. Its been a nightmare of a car for my friend with all the problems. Its got the corporate 3.4 litre.

Blech. Rendezvous, that's his problem. Have him get rid of that and get either a real Buick or a real SUV. Those and the Azteks were nothing but issues, and ugly too.

Destroyer
04-15-08, 10:03 AM
Blech. Rendezvous, that's his problem. Have him get rid of that and get either a real Buick or a real SUV. Those and the Azteks were nothing but issues, and ugly too.
Well I cant argue with the damn thing being ugly, it is. After owning it he wont be purchasing another Buick though. He paid almost full sticker price for it new and its been nothing but problems since. I've driven it and its one of the few vechilces that I absolutely despise, its not comfortable or powerful and like you said, its ugly.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-15-08, 11:08 AM
Darn it. Those were the exception to the general rule of late model Buicks generally being very reliable cars. It seems as though everything else from that era was pretty dang durable/reliable.

foos
04-16-08, 02:40 PM
My car.. 99 STS, about 108k miles. I take off the MAF and TB and reach in there with my finger or something else and come up with sludge. It's like 1/8" thick black gooey sludge stuff. Nasty. If I spray the top engine cleaner in there it smells like hell and really nukes the catalytic converter .. I get CC PCM code for like a month afterwords until it cleans itself out.. ugh.. I took a flashlight and shined it down the PCV opening while it was idling but didn't see anything.. Maybe it only happens when I'm driving .. I drive it pretty hard though. If I drive it 'normally' down the highway it will go 1k miles on a quart, maybe more. But city driving really burns it up so i'm wondering about the PCV.. I am going to install a catch can and see what happens when I get a chance.

It's got enough miles on it now I have to start replacing some of the front end bushings and things[maybe motor mount?] (I can feel it) and hopefully not much else.
On a side note do you know anywhere I can get better bushings? Polyurethane something that will last longer and not be so mushy ?