: My love affair with Mac OS has ended



JimmyH
04-06-08, 03:09 PM
We had a good run. I really like the Mac, and OSX. I like the fact that it is unix, and most of it's "user-friendlyness."

But, alas, like any new toy, the allure has worn off, and the everyday world intrudes. As someone who must use windows, staying fluent in both OSs tried my patience. Plus some of OSXs weird quirks just kept putting me off. I believe if the Mac was my everyday computer, used for my livelyhood, I really would have enjoyed it more. Unfortuneatly, when I spend all day at work on Windows, I just dont have the desire to learn everything about a new OS on a computer I only use a couple hours a week. I found myself using Windows (via VMware) about 99% of the time.

And of course there is my utter disappointment with the rock-solid system stability that was aggressively touted to me (by other Mac users and Apple's moronic commercials.) I somehow managed to lockup programs almost as often as in windows, and even crashed the OS several times.

So for now, I have a shiny new iMac single booting Vista :D

JTraik
04-06-08, 03:37 PM
I am able to lock up my XP maybe once a year, get on a mac and I have to deal with the PINWHEEL OF DEATH!

Jesda
04-06-08, 03:49 PM
XP is solid. Vista is a hunk of crap.

I miss my Mac, but I was broke, it was still worth close to what I paid three years ago, and it was getting old. I shall buy another.

gary88
04-06-08, 04:50 PM
Vista isn't that bad. The people who are too lazy to write drivers for it are.

AMGoff
04-06-08, 05:13 PM
That's a shame... Seeing as how I don't know the specifics of what you're attempting to run on it and that I have no experience with VMWare, I can't point to any possible reason why it would lock up or crash. As with any system, it takes time to fine tune things and no one should ever attest that the Mac works 100% as you want it right out of the box... I remember it took years for me to fine tune the Classic OS, but it was much more complicated back then dealing with the mess of extensions and control panels, but eventually I had OS9 rock solid despite other's frustrations with it... and because of such, I didn't switch full-time to OSX until 10.3 "Panther" came out.

But nowadays, I'm not just blowing smoke when I say my setups are rock-solid, my final-gen, 15" Aluminum PowerBook G4 doesn't miss a beat... regardless of whether I'm just surfing the 'net or if I have Safari running along with Photoshop, Office, Dreamweaver, Audacity and a hand full of other little programs all at the same time... all running smoothly with 2-gigs of RAM and a fast 7200rpm HD... it never gets shut down, it only ever goes to sleep, and the last time it was restarted was probably a couple months ago whenever the latest system update came out... So I can only speak from personal experience.

One possibility I can think of is that you're running Leopard, right? Not only that but obviously on Intel hardware (I don't remember which exact model though). Leopard is only on 10.5.2 - which means it still has a ways to go before all of the kinks are ironed out. I have Leopard installed on one partition and I'm still playing with it... but that's what one has to do with any new system - play with it, nothing more. If I'm doing any kind of real work I still boot into 10.4.11. I'd just hate to see you give up on it completely due largely to expectations based on another operating system. But honestly... the learning curve is inextricably more difficult if you don't immerse yourself in it and went into it with the notion that you're still going to hold onto Windows... I realize that's a chitty attitude I take towards it, but it's the truth. I'm not sure exactly what you're doing with it that requires you still use Windows and I'd be willing to bet that any instability you're encountering stems from a combination of VMWare and the early version of Leopard.

The best thing you could have done was gone into with the firm notion that you were now using a Mac, then would have bought a copy of Parallels Desktop with a copy of XP, installed whatever Windows-only applications you absolutely need to do your work, then would have immediately thrown Parallels into coherence mode and subsequently stuck whatever shortcuts for said XP-apps into your dock and just used them like any other application on your machine. I don't know if VMWare offers a feature similar to Parallels' coherence mode... but it makes a world of difference as you're only using that application and not necessarily using/seeing/interacting with Windows itself. That's how I set up anyone who's new to an Intel Mac who also have XP-only apps that they feel they can't live without...

It really does make everything that much harder when they go into it with the idea that every time they get frustrated they'll just load up Windows... no one can possibly get their efficiency up to and beyond previous levels if the never get beyond the learning curve - and that's not just me being biased, it's just logic. I remember way back when I needed to learn Windows, I packed my Mac up in a box and took it over to my brother's house and I didn't bring it back until I had it licked... And it was WAY more difficult then because there was none of the conveniences there are today... because at least now, though technologies such as Parallels and their fantastic coherence mode, you can still have access to at least the applications you need and are familiar with.

If nothing else... just don't completely give up on it... if you absolutely need to use Windows for work, then by all means do so.... But there really isn't any reason nor learning curve to not use it for daily home stuff, ie - internet, email, pictures, music, etc... the internet is the internet, email is email, media is media - really nothing new to learn there, plus you don't need to hog your system resources running AV, AS, etc...

Otherwise... see if you can either return it or if you can't do that, just sell it - if nothing else, they hold their value better than any other manufacturer and you'll at least get back what you paid for it, especially since it's still basically new... and I'm only saying that because I hate to see anyone waste their money... and if you're just gonna run Windows on it that's what you're doing because as a Windows box, it's over-priced.... the value really lies with the software.

thebigjimsho
04-06-08, 05:59 PM
I like DOS.

Jesda
04-06-08, 06:07 PM
My workflow on the Mac is MUCH more pleasant. Expose' is a big part of that, as well as the dock. I can get the same tasks done in about the same time on a Windows PC, but with far less joy.

CIWS
04-06-08, 06:10 PM
So for now, I have a shiny new iMac single booting Vista :D

You're not the only one, I was just reading some other big Apple group was dumping their Macs and returning to a Windows OS for their company.

JimmyH
04-06-08, 06:48 PM
dont get me wrong, I did like mac os. just dont have the time or desire anymore to mess with it.

it wasnt the crashing that put me off; I deal with that on windows all the time. it was just goofy little stuff. I dont remember specifics right now, but I can remember looking all over finder for some setting or other, searching the internet, then giving up. the cmd-c instead of ctrl-c to copy, clicking in the address bar of web browsers and not getting the whole address highlighted; little stuff like that.

I was using parallels. I found fusion to be much faster and more reliable. not surprising; vmware is a much more mature company.

and on my old computer at work, when I installed vista, it booted to the non-hourglass arrow in a little over a minute, where XP took over five. same computer, same hardware. and vista does not lock up programs (for me anyway) anywhere near as much as xp. photoshop and autocad run faster on vista as well.

no loss. vista runs great on the imac. and the monitor is superior to anything else I have seen.

dkozloski
04-06-08, 06:50 PM
Why trade the devil you know for the devil you don't know? Use whatever system you are familiar with and gets your work done. All systems are great as long as they work smoothly. Both PCs and Macs have their problems. The issues are, how much damage do they do when they poop the bed and how quickly can you recover when things go wrong.

JimmyH
04-06-08, 06:51 PM
btw for anyone running vista on an imac, go to realtek's website and download their drivers. vistas out of box drivers are horrible.

JimmyH
04-06-08, 06:53 PM
Why trade the devil you know for the devil you don't know? Use whatever system you are familiar with and gets your work done. All systems are great as long as they work smoothly. Both PCs and Macs have their problems. The issues are, how much damage do they do when they poop the bed and how quickly can you recover when things go wrong.

because I always wanted a mac and with the advent of macintel, i was intrigued.


now on to my next problem, figuring out why the fuggin Toshiba laptop bsods right after bootup.

never buy a toshiba. everyone I have ever used is garbage.

slk230mb
04-06-08, 07:10 PM
I use Windows XP all day long at work, vista ultimate on my home desktop, and OS X on my macbook. I like Vista a lot, the eye candy is nice if you have the hardware to run it. OS X is the perfect OS for a laptop as far as I'm concerned. It does everything I need a laptop for without skipping a beat. I don't think I could use OS X all the time, but for a laptop, I'm sold.

hardrockcamaro@mac.c
04-06-08, 10:11 PM
Wow, the only program that has ever locked up or sponteneously quit on my Mac has been MS Office, in particular Excel.

When Parallels first came out I did have a problem with that, the system lost power and when I rebooted the disk image for XP was corrupt so I lost everything on it. The Mac OS was fine though.

I even switched the whole of my old company over to the Mac (bar 2 machines in accounts) and the internal IT support load dropped to almost zero.

However, switching between 2 OS's is frustrating, espeically using Windows all day at work and then Mac OS at home. Especially if you're big on keyboard shortcuts. To be honest I'm now so used to Cmd-key for shortcuts on the Mac that I have trouble remembering whether to hold down alt or Ctrl on the PC to get the same shortcut (at least the x,c and v are the same). The highlighting the whole address in my browser is something I hate on PC, I prefer to to be able to click anywhere in it to edit it, if I want the whole thing I just double-click it.

The biggest problem most switchers to OSX have is trying to do things the PC way (to be fair the way they have ben used to doing things for years). Letting go and doing things the Mac way, either by reading up and learning or just stopping and saying to myself "hmm, ignore the usual way, what would be logical here?" has meant a much more efficient workflow. All the seconds saved here and there throughout the day really add up. And I find PCs so sluggish now (as a hint for any Mac users or potential switchers, you need at least 2GB of RAM) and don't get me started on all that virus stuff.

But the important thing is to be happy with your computer, whichever platform you choose...

gdwriter
04-06-08, 10:31 PM
Sorry to hear, Jimmy, but understandable. I've been using Macs since 1990, and in only one job since then did I have to use a PC (Windows 3.1). Whenever I do have to use a PC for one thing or another, it doesn't take long for me to get frustrated with the way Windows handles what in the Mac world is called the Finder. Drives me nucking futs. My only experience with Vista was with my mother's laptop, and I thought a VW Microbus going uphill was faster.

Everybody has to find what they like and are comfortable using. Macs aren't perfect, but I definitely prefer them.

hardrockcamaro@mac.c
04-07-08, 08:07 AM
I thought a VW Microbus going uphill was faster.


LMFAO!!!!

thebigjimsho
04-07-08, 10:19 AM
LMFAO!!!!Was that funny? Or are you just a nerd? Wait, your British, right?:welcome:

JimmyH
04-07-08, 11:09 AM
I don't think I could use OS X all the time, but for a laptop, I'm sold.

Interesting.

JimmyH
04-07-08, 11:16 AM
Sorry to hear, Jimmy, but understandable. I've been using Macs since 1990, and in only one job since then did I have to use a PC (Windows 3.1). Whenever I do have to use a PC for one thing or another, it doesn't take long for me to get frustrated with the way Windows handles what in the Mac world is called the Finder. Drives me nucking futs. My only experience with Vista was with my mother's laptop, and I thought a VW Microbus going uphill was faster.

Everybody has to find what they like and are comfortable using. Macs aren't perfect, but I definitely prefer them.

yeah, with vista you definitely HAVE to have the hardware to run it. No question. But if you do have the hardware, it cruises. I am running a Dell XPS420 with a quadcore processor and 3gigs of ram, along with SATA HD. AutoCAD loads FAST. My only beef is the graphics in AutoCAD are little jerky when performing commands, but I think that is the graphics card. ATI Radeon, which I think I am going to upgrade.

I know Mac people like Finder. But I grew up on Program Manager, which evolved into Explorer, so for me, Finder is a little esoteric.

Best part of Mac OS? The Dock. Simply brilliant. There is a freeware version for windows if anyone is interested, which is now running on all my PCs.
http://rocketdock.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2&Itemid=13
The only thing it needs, that I hope they include in a future version, is being able to drag icons into the dock. Right now, you have to right click on the dock, and browse to the program you want. You also have to make up your own icons for older programs, unless you can live with the graininess of 32x32 icons when zoomed.

concorso
04-07-08, 02:20 PM
Vista isn't that bad. The people who are too lazy to write drivers for it are.No, vista is a hunk of crap. Most people have better things to do with their time (like working and relaxing) then trying to get their OS to function as efficiently as the previous version. It's an OS, that comes on lots of new computers, you shouldnt have to mess with it to get it to work properly.

JimmyH
04-07-08, 03:31 PM
No, vista is a hunk of crap. Most people have better things to do with their time (like working and relaxing) then trying to get their OS to function as efficiently as the previous version. It's an OS, that comes on lots of new computers, you shouldnt have to mess with it to get it to work properly.

which is exactly why you shouldnt upgrade, and why most copies of windows come preinstalled on new computers. minimum system requirements be damned. it is all the folks who run out to buy the latest operating system to install on their "old" computers who have the problems.


vista worked great right out of the box on my XPS. of course, that did not stop me from wiping the hard drive and reinstalling it myself :bouncy:


dont get me wrong, I still hate Microcrap. But I hate traffic and taxes too.

gdwriter
04-07-08, 03:35 PM
Best part of Mac OS? The Dock. Simply brilliant.I agree; I find it very handy.

JimmyH
04-07-08, 04:53 PM
I like it because there are no icons on my desktop (the better to see my transformers wallpaper :D) no more quicklaunch on my taskbar, and no more digging through the start menu.

What did mac have before the dock? I hate having icons all over the desktop, and going to finder/applications every time you want to run a program has to be aggravating.

gdwriter
04-07-08, 05:51 PM
What did mac have before the dock? I hate having icons all over the desktop, and going to finder/applications every time you want to run a program has to be aggravating.I had a folder of aliases on my desktop with all my frequently used programs. Still have that aliases folder, but the applications I use all the time are in the dock.

Jesda
04-07-08, 08:34 PM
With the old Apple System Software I had aliases in the Apple Menu on the upper left, and applications were switched with the menu on the upper right.

blunted
04-08-08, 08:37 AM
Parallels is junk IMO... unless they recently (past couple months) did some major improvements. Brand new mac book.. brand new copy of windows.. new parallels.. Windows install failed over 20 times. Support for it is also junk.. go over to those forums and see some really pissed off people. There's a reason they stopped pushing that stuff/bundling it with new Macs.

hardrockcamaro@mac.c
04-08-08, 09:20 AM
I use the included Boot Camp software by Apple and dual boot instead. No problems at all with that.

AMGoff
04-08-08, 12:57 PM
which is exactly why you shouldnt upgrade, and why most copies of windows come preinstalled on new computers. minimum system requirements be damned. it is all the folks who run out to buy the latest operating system to install on their "old" computers who have the problems.


vista worked great right out of the box on my XPS. of course, that did not stop me from wiping the hard drive and reinstalling it myself :bouncy:


dont get me wrong, I still hate Microcrap. But I hate traffic and taxes too.

See.. there's another big difference... I'm used to and expect upgrades to run smoothly. My old "Digital Audio" PowerMac G4 is a prime example... I bought it new in 2001, it's still running and it used by my mom these days... it's a dual-533MHz G4, 1.5GB ram, 60GB 7200rpm drive, and 32MB nVidia graphics... the only thing that was ever upgraded was the ram... it originally shipped with OS 9 + OS X.1... 10.1 was crap so I still used 9 on that machine when I first got it. But... I upgraded it through 10.2 then 10.3 (which was when I switched full time to X) then 10.4... all with no problems at all and contrary to common logic, all running faster than the previous version as Apple was constantly further optimizing the system to run faster, not slower. It only hit a wall with 10.5 "Leopard," simply because the "minimum" specs are an 867MHz G4... which is bull. Dual-533's provide more than enough ooomph and all it requires is a little open firmware trickery to get the installer to boot.

My current PowerBook G4 and PowerMac G5 both came with 10.3 "Panther" I believe... they both took 10.4 with no problems or slowdowns and they seem to be taking to 10.5 without much fuss either.

So I think it's utter hogwash that a company that's as big and as wealthy and has so much supposed talent as Microsoft can't find a way to trim down their cluster-ef of code and make things run as efficiently as possible.


I like it because there are no icons on my desktop (the better to see my transformers wallpaper :D) no more quicklaunch on my taskbar, and no more digging through the start menu.

What did mac have before the dock? I hate having icons all over the desktop, and going to finder/applications every time you want to run a program has to be aggravating.


With the old Apple System Software I had aliases in the Apple Menu on the upper left, and applications were switched with the menu on the upper right.

The APPLE MENU... god I miss that. The dock is good and all, but I miss a proper Apple menu.. as well as the Application Switcher that was in the upper-right corner. The Apple menu now is more a retarded cross of the old Apple menu and the Special menu. And I still haven't gotten quite used to using "Apple+Tab" to switch through my apps...


Parallels is junk IMO... unless they recently (past couple months) did some major improvements. Brand new mac book.. brand new copy of windows.. new parallels.. Windows install failed over 20 times. Support for it is also junk.. go over to those forums and see some really pissed off people. There's a reason they stopped pushing that stuff/bundling it with new Macs.


I use the included Boot Camp software by Apple and dual boot instead. No problems at all with that.

I have no idea which build of Parallels that's installed on my machine at work, but all I know is that I've never run into any problems with it. Initial installation went smoothly and the interoperation is basically seamless.

I would never use Boot Camp for the simple reason that I'd never completely hand over control of my machine to Windows... IF I let it run, it will be in a virtual setting off of a disk image... that way, if need be all I have to do is throw it in the trash.

JimmyH
04-08-08, 01:34 PM
Parallels is okay. At least when I upgraded to a newer build it was. The version I have on CD gave me nothing but problems. When I downloaded a newer one, it ran fine. So who knows.

Fusion just seemed to run faster, and I never had any windows programs lock up on it. Although I was not using it that long.

The one thing parallels had on Fusion is that, in Unity mode, Fusion will not let you move Windows windows between monitors (in a dual monitor setup) where as in coherence on parallels you can. In windowed mode, you could move Fusion between monitors though. I never could understand that.

And as someone else said, Parallels support is a joke. I dont know about VMware though as I never needed it.

JimmyH
05-14-08, 02:49 PM
Stay away from Bootcamp 2.1!!!!

Nothing but problems.

Chicano-Mexicano
05-14-08, 08:41 PM
Vista is a hunk of crap.

Only if you were stupid enough to upgrade you system from XP to Vista. Thats when you have a shit load of problems because XP was not meant to be upgraded it was considered the be all and end all by Microsoft when it was released so when they developed long horn (VISTA) they failed to realize that they had not considered making XP upgradeable so they tried to make Vista backwards compatible but seeing that XP was not made like win 95-ME which was made to be upgraded to Microsoft's newest OS.

gary88
05-14-08, 09:38 PM
There's already a new version of Windows coming out, supposedly next year. Looks like it's already out for testing http://research.microsoft.com/os/Singularity/

Basically, Vista = the second Windows Me

Chicano-Mexicano
05-14-08, 10:36 PM
Basically, Vista = the second Windows Me

Yes Vista can be compared to ME but not because that it's total piece of crap but because of short sightedness on Microsoft's part in that windows XP was touted as the end all operating system of the decade. I mean windows ME was a total pos operating system I had it a week before I got the blue screen of death but my moms laptop (which runs vista out of the box) has been going strong for a little over 8 months now with out a single problem, and unless Microsoft decided to rectify the problem of upgrade ability then it will be vista all over again.

JimmyH
05-14-08, 11:21 PM
I dont understand all the fuss about ME. I had it installed for short time, just for kicks, and I had zero problems with it.

And it's never a good idea to upgrade any os.

Clean install FTW.

Jesda
05-15-08, 07:19 AM
The laptop with HP bundled Vista has been a god damn nightmare. The OS, the hardware, everything. Its being repaired under warranty now.

AMGoff
05-15-08, 10:33 AM
Windows ME was nothing but a gussied-up version of Windows 98, therefore inheriting all of its pluses and minuses... Vista is nothing but the gussied-up version of the gussied-up version of the core architecture of XP...

FWIW though, any version of Windows that comes "bundled" from a major manufacturer is junk...

Chicano-Mexicano
05-15-08, 11:31 AM
The laptop with HP bundled Vista

Well theirs your problem you got an HP they've made crap for years so it's no shock that their new laptops are crap as well.

dkozloski
05-15-08, 01:23 PM
My H-P laptop with XP that I bought at WalMart because it was the cheapest thing they had has been bulletproof for years. I operate behind a wireless router, I use Norton AV and Windows defender. I never install any of the little gimmicky programs that show up every now and then on the internet. It has thousands of hours of running time on it with never a problem. The people I see with problems no matter what the platform have a desktop loaded with dozens of little cheap crap programs that steal system resources and add multiple chances for bugs, glitches, and mischief.

AMGoff
05-15-08, 02:05 PM
HPs, by no means sit at the bottom of the proverbial barrel with regard to customer satisfaction and reliability. The fact remains, most of the major manufacturers source their components from the same suppliers... So to single out HP and blast them up and down as junk is just plain silly.

As Koz also made mention with his HP experience... every HP I've ever had experience with functioned as well, if not better than any comparable offering from Sony, IBM/Lenovo, or Dell.

The only junk part of new HPs starts with a "V" and ends in an "A."

JimmyH
05-15-08, 03:00 PM
FWIW though, any version of Windows that comes "bundled" from a major manufacturer is junk...

I beg to differ.

Dell's install images are very very close to an OEM Microsoft Image.

In fact, I have installed OEM XP and Dell XP on the same computer, and they were identical in every respect I could find. There wasn't even any branding. Just a /dell folder with a few small files in it.

Even Retail Vista, and Dell Vista are seemingly identical. I looked, and the only difference I could find were the Welcome Center and Computer properties that display the Dell logo.


I can tell you now, the worst computer mfgs for bloatware are Toshiba and Sony. They have SO many proprietary utilities and drivers it is ridiculous. What's worse, is they do not provide a windows reinstallation cd. You have to use their system restore which installs windows and all the bloatware and trialware along with it.

If you want a clean install on Sony or Toshiba you either have to buy another copy of windows, or download a pirated one.

AMGoff
05-15-08, 04:42 PM
I beg to differ.

Dell's install images are very very close to an OEM Microsoft Image.

I counter your differ with one of my own....

I'm not sure about Dells that were ordered with an XP Pro upgrade... but Dells (at least within the past year) that come with the standard XP Home came with a bunch of needless crap.

While we've just about halted any new Dell purchases now... when we did order a machine here and there in the past year, we would always order the basic config with XP Home since we have a bulk license of Pro... so instead of wasting the extra hundred bucks, we'd just get it with Home, wipe it, and install a clean Pro edition.

Maybe they weren't as bad if you coughed up the extra cash for Pro at the time of purchase... but they definitely burdened Home consumers with excess bloat.

JimmyH
05-15-08, 04:47 PM
I don't know which part of their website you ordered from, I always order from the Home and Home Office part. They give you the option of deleting the software you don't want. The only thing you can't really delete is Adobe Reader. All that's left is Dell support alerts.

at any rate, for advanced users like me, and you from the way it sounds, wiping the hard drive of any new computer is the way to go. The great thing about bios licensing is that you can reinstall windows as many times as you want without worrying about activation. I have no experience with bulk licensing.
But to do that, you have to have a windows reinstallation disc. Dell is one of the few that provide one.