: Bolton Mods and cam only RWHP?



peedeerooster
04-03-08, 11:40 PM
For you guys that have done all the boltons, ie exhaust and cold air, that have added a cam. What kind of RWHP sae net did you get and which cam did you use. I ask this because this is the route I am taking with my CTS-V. Just trying to learn from you guys that have already been there. I am adding a Volant cold air intake with Kooks longtubes/offroad conection pipes and adding a cam swap with it. Just would like to get some other opinons on were I am headed with mine. Thanks in advance.

AlmostAV
04-04-08, 12:03 AM
Depending on your choice of cam youll be anywhere from 380-400 IMO.

btw I dont know about that volant....

heavymetals
04-04-08, 01:27 AM
A lot of cam info on LS1 tech.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/

trukk
04-04-08, 09:41 AM
PDR,

When I call you about the resonator we can discuss, but I am going the exact route you plan.

I have all the bolt-on's right now, less electric water pump, and Under Drive Harmonic Balancer. Depending on which local dyno I use (Both Mustang 1100 load bearing dybo's), I'm aeither at 378 or 355 rwhp :D

The cam I'm having installed (hopefully) next week is a custom grind:

224/228 .609Ē/.588Ē 111LSA +0 advance
Comp Cams XFI/XE-R lobes

This was spec'd by PatrickG over at LS1Tech. Him, Tony Mamo (from AFR), and my tuner (Jeff @ PSI) all think I should gain between 40 and 50 rwhp with this cam.

If you go absolutely MAX effort (all the top-shelf bolt-on mods, ported everything, etc.) and a donkey dick cam, you could see 450 rwhp with cam only, however it's not going to be much fun driving around on the street (something like an Texas Speed MS4 or Thunder Racing TREX.)

I have the following going in next week, to compliment the cam, and the other bolt-on's I already have.

- Yella Terra Ultralite 1.7" non adjustable rockers
- Cloyes Hex Adjust timing set (single chain)
- Comp Hardened push rods (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/#) (7.425)
- Patriot Gold 'Extreme' springs with Ti retainers and Super 7 locks
- Melling high flow oil pump
- 42lbs flow matched lucas injectors
- all arp fasteners
- ATI 25% UD Harmonic Balancer

-Chris

rangerrob
04-04-08, 09:56 AM
...The cam I'm having installed (hopefully) next week is a custom grind:

224/228 .609”/.588” 111LSA +0 advance
Comp Cams XFI/XE-R lobes

This was spec'd by PatrickG over at LS1Tech. Him, Tony Mamo (from AFR), and my tuner (Jeff @ PSI) all think I should gain between 40 and 50 rwhp with this cam.

If you go absolutely MAX effort (all the top-shelf bolt-on mods, ported everything, etc.) and a donkey dick cam, you could see 450 rwhp with cam only, however it's not going to be much fun driving around on the street (something like an Texas Speed MS4 or Thunder Racing TREX.)

I have the following going in next week, to compliment the cam, and the other bolt-on's I already have.

- Yella Terra Ultralite 1.7" non adjustable rockers
- Cloyes Hex Adjust timing set (single chain)
- Comp Hardened push rods (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/#) (7.425)
- Patriot Gold 'Extreme' springs with Ti retainers and Super 7 locks
- Melling high flow oil pump
- 42lbs flow matched lucas injectors
- all arp fasteners
- ATI 25% UD Harmonic Balancer

-Chris

Trukk,

i also am looking into a cam in the near future, wit hall of the "accessory internal upgrades" that you have listed, are these highly recommended to go along with the cam? If so, do they assist in additional hp? roughly how much do those internals cost ballpark?

trukk
04-04-08, 12:50 PM
Trukk,

I also am looking into a cam in the near future, wit hall of the "accessory internal upgrades" that you have listed, are these highly recommended to go along with the cam? If so, do they assist in additional hp? roughly how much do those internals cost ballpark?
I'll break it down below. First thing to note, I'm definitely Type-A / Anal retentive, when it comes to mods for my car (lol who am I kidding, I'm like that in most things :D ). Some of the stuff that I've done is WAY Overkill, some is Buyers-Choice, and some is Must-Do. I spent a LOT of time reading up, and talking to people before I made my final decision on what to buy. Finally, my criteria included:
1) I only want to add stuff once, so I'd rather spend more now, than have to upgrade or replace later
2) This car is a Daily Driver, so reliability trumps price for me.
3) I take my car to the road course approximately 4 weekends a year. High RPM operation is a big consideration for me (see #2 :D)
With that in mind, here is a break down of what/why/how-much. Keep in mind that if you shop around, or contact one of our sponsors (TByrne is great to work with), you may be able to get a lower price, or a package deal. Prices and web links are for info only.
Lastly & Caveat: I'm just a guy on the Internet. Bellow is how I came to my component choices. I think I was pretty thorough, but this may not work for you, or some of my info may not be complete. DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK.

- Yella Terra Ultralite 1.7 ratio non adjustable rockers.
∑ Requirement: Buyers Choice. The stock rockers are know to hold up to a LOT of HP, and pretty good RPM's. Their only issue is they are little on the heavy side, and the needle bearings can come loose on occasion.
∑ Description: YT Ultra Lites are lighter than stock, and most importantly they are lighter at the end of the rocker, this making the Momentum of Inertia (MOI) less, which *should* make them more efficient than stock. Also they a 'quasi' shaft mounted. Each set of intake/exhaust valves is on it's own shaft. This makes the rockers more stable at higher RPM's. It also makes them a LOT less expensive than full on shaft mounted options. YT Ultra lites require no modification to the valve covers to fit. 1.7 ratio is the stock ration. They also offer 1.8
∑ Other Options: Stock. Harland Sharp modified stockers (they encase the needle bearing to protect against loosing them). Big Ticker rockers would be Comp Magnums or Jessel Sportsman ( about 1k each)
∑ Part Number: 6645
∑ Website: http://www.mphparts.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MM&Product_Code=113-6645&Category_Code=GTOLS1VLV
∑ Cost: $419.99

- Cloyes Hex Adjust timing set (single chain)
∑ Requirement: Buyers Choice. At a bare minimum you will want to upgrade to an LS2 chain. I got the adjustable so I can degree my cam if necessary.
∑ Description: The Cloyes stuff is very nice. Probably overkill from a chain perspective. It offers infinite advance retard capability (not it 1 degree increments like most), and is fairly dummy proof to install, unlike a lot of adjustable timing sets. The chain itself is very high quality, and negates the need for a dual roller chain.
∑ Other Options: KaTech makes a great single chain as well, if you don't need adjustability. Double chains in my estimation arenít worth the effort. You usually need to modify the timing cover, and have to run a stock (or less robust) oil pump, due to fitament. Not worth the effort, when great single chains are available from KaTech and Cloyes.
∑ Part Number: 3153A
∑ Website: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=clo-9-3153a
∑ Cost: $169.69

- Comp Hardened push rods (7.425)
∑ Requirement: Must-Do. Unless you are putting in a very low lift/ low ramp rate lobed cam, you will need better hardened push-rods. If you aren't getting a cam like that, then why are you even putting in a new cam?
∑ Description: The hardened chromoly pushrods flex less than stock, and provide a more stable and robust valve train, which equates to better higher RPM performance, and overall more reliability.
∑ Other Options: Not much. You don't need any thicker unless you are going REALLY big. if you are doing that you should be getting advice from your engine builder, and not just some guy on the internet :D
∑ Part Number: 7796-16
∑ Website: http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog/?action=vshop&vid=17&pcid=106
∑ Cost: 132.99

- Patriot Gold 'Extreme' Dual springs with Ti retainers and Super 7 locks
∑ Requirement: Must-Do. You donít necessarily need these exact springs, but you should definitely get new springs with any new cam.
∑ Description: Valve springs are a wear item, and will eventually need to be replaced. Stock design is single beehives. The patriots are standard duals. Typical beehives are good up to .6" of cam lift, above that it's good to go with a dual sprint to handle the lift, and give the proper amount of seat pressure. While dual springs are a bit heavier (more MOI), than beehives, they also have 2 springs, so if one breaks, you still have the other, to hopefully get the valve out of the pistons way if you do have a failure. If a single breaks, the probability is very high that your engine is going to eat a valve, which is 'not good' :D. The Ti retainers cut down on weight over the stock retainers (less MOI). Finally the Super7 locks are higher quality than stock, and better than the ones that Texas Speed includes in their springs kits. NOTE: Texas Speed and patriot both use the same spring manufacturer, so the actual springs are the same, the only difference between the two is the associated hardware.
∑ Other Options: Stock ls6 yellows (only if you are going with a low lift cam though, approx .550 or less, and then what's the real point?). Comp 918's (they have had some quality issues in the past. Also would only consider if staying below .6" lift). PAC makes some very high quality beehive and doubles (even triples), but they along with the COMP 921's can get expensive ($400+ sometimes).
∑ Part Number: 198-8501
∑ Website: http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog/?action=shop&sid=815&pcid=109
∑ Cost: $279.99

trukk
04-04-08, 12:51 PM
~~CONTINUED~~

- Melling high flow oil Pump
∑ Requirement: Buyers Choice. If you have good oil pressure before the cam, you should be able to re-use your stock pump.
∑ Description: The Melling pump is a bit higher quality, and pumps 18% more oil than OEM.
∑ Other Options: LS2 OEM. SLP Modified OEM and Melling, are the main oil pump players.
∑ Part Number: 10296
∑ Website: http://www.byunspeed.com/product_info.php?products_id=6642
∑ Cost: $139.95

- 42lbs flow matched Lucas injectors
∑ Requirement: Buyers Choice. At 380 rwhp my injector duty cycle (IDC) was at 92% at wide open throttle (WOT). While you can go over 100%, you start going lean at higher RPM/s WOT (Bad). If also lessens the injectors lifespan running them over 100%. With my cam I will be well over 100% IDC. You can get away without this for a while, but will probably eventually need to upgrade injectors
∑ Description: Stock injectors are 28.5 lbs/hr at 58 PSI fuel rail pressure. I went flow matched so I know that all the injectors are flowing what they are supposed to be. New Era gave me a nice spreadsheet of what each was actually flowing (within 1% of each other). You can then put the two 'fattest' injectors in #7 and #8 cylinders, since they tend to run the leanest based on the way the intakes work on our cars. Please note that these injectors are spec'd for an LS6 V, which has a different injector connection than an LS2 V. Also note that some injectors are spec's at 40 PSI fuel rail pressure, and some are at 58 PSI. LSX fuel rails run at 58 PSI, however you can use injectors spec's at 40. For example the ford motorsports red top 30# per hour are rated a40 PSI, so on our cars, they act more like a 36-38 lbs/hr injector when running at 58 PSI. I went with 42 Lbs/hr, as I don't foresee my car ever going over 500 rwhp (probably not anywhere near that but I wanted to be safe, see criteria #1 above :D)
∑ Other Options: Ford Red Tops. FAST makes injectors as well, however my tuner recommended I stay away from those.
∑ Part Number: ??
∑ Website: http://www.neweraperformanceparts.com/default.asp?S=503&A=E&PKV=c5l42fm|0
∑ Cost: $329.95

- All ARP fasteners
∑ Requirement: Overkill. With the exception of the Crank Bolt, which I would definitely do. GM crank bolt is torque to yield, which means you have to get a new GM bolt anyway. The ARP one is re-usable, and is just such higher quality than the OEM. I am a sucker for $10 - $30 parts, so spending $100 on bolts didn't really seem like a big deal.
∑ Description: I went with the following ARP Fasteners:
Edlebrock LS1 Rocker Arm Bolts (made by ARP): EDL-8597 $29.95 (shorter than normal to prevent flow obstruction)
ARP LS1 Harmonic Balancer Bolt: 234-2503 $26.24
ARP HP Series Cam Sprocket Bolt Kit: 134-1003 $8.88
ARP GENIII/LS Series Small Black Timing Cover Bolt Kit: $24.39
ARP GENIII/LS Cam retainer Bolts: 113-134-1002: $7.49
∑ Other Options:
∑ Part Number: (see description)
∑ Website:
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog/?action=manufacturer&mid=15
http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/edl-8597.html
∑ Cost: See description

- ASP 25% UD Harmonic Balancer
∑ Requirement: Buyers Choice. This frees up 5 to 10 HP, and is pretty easy to do, when you are going through a cam install. I wouldn't do it unless I was also doing the cam.
∑ Description: The harmonic balancer on the crank shaft is 25% smaller than OEM, make it lighter (MOI), and spinning the accessories 25% slower, thus requiring less power to turn them. NOTE: This will require a smaller pulley belt. I have yet to receive definitive conformation on the size required. When I do, I'll post it up.
∑ Other Options: Retain OEM for free, or could do a 10% (doesn't seem worth the effort). make sure you buy one spec'd for a C5 corvette, as the F-body spec's ones won't fit our cars. ATI makes a balancer as well , but it is significantly more expensive, and I didn't see the value in it. ASP seems right on, there are cheaper ones (i.e. powerbond), but they just seemed 'cheaper'.
∑ Part Number: 941020
∑ Website: http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=642&catid=16
∑ Cost: $245.99

- Cam Shaft
∑ Requirement: Must-Do (:D): I had the my cam custom spec'd by PatrickG over on LS1 Tech. I did this to try and best match my requirements. He takes into account a lot of variable and goals to come up with a recommendation.
∑ Description: Makes the valves open and close :D. There are a lot of options when considering a cam. How do you want it to perform (daily driver, street/strip, strip only/ max effort, road course), how do you want it to sound and idle (stock sounding, mild lope, medium lope, heavy lope/barley idles), etc. My main criteria where (in addition to my main criteria above) was good on the road course, and would I wouldn't need to replace valve springs every 20k - 30k miles (note this is a big reason I went with the higher spec Duel Extreme valve springs, which are rated up to .660 lift, even though my cam's max lift is .609.) Finally, I had Lingenfelter get Comp Cams to run the cam through their Adcole cam measurement machine after it was cut, to validate that what I ordered is what I got. The Adcole is much more accurate than a 'cam-doctor' machine. I will use this report in conjunction with the adjustable timing set, to make sure my cam is installed dead nuts.
∑ Other Options: There are a million and a half cam options out there. This is where you need to do your homework. I would recommend doing a lot of research, and even going down to your local speed shop to see/hear/ride in other cam'd cars to see what you like and don't like. After that get PatrickG to spec out a cam just for you.
∑ Part Number: N/A
∑ Website:
http://guerragroup.com/camshaft_help.htm

∑ Cost: Cam spec - $25.00. Custom grind + Adcole report $415.00

Miscellaneous Crap:
SDPC Cam Install Gasket Kit: KITSD51902: $61.95
ARP Assembly Lube: 100-9903: $6.95
COMP Cams Engine Assembly (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/) Lube 102: $8.99
Mobil 1 x 13 Qts: $50.00
Gallon of Distilled Water: $2.00
Gallon of DexCool: $20.00(??)

So what's the tally:
∑ Parts: $2370.44
∑ Dyno Tune: $500.00
∑ Install: $750 - $1250 (estimate).

So I expect my grand total on this to be approximately 4k. This will give me a car that is all ready to go for heads, when I decide to do them. It is also giving something very reliable, and should net great results.
Feedback welcome and appreciated :D

-Chris

CTSV_Rob
04-04-08, 12:55 PM
Awesome post trukk, will need to read this one tonight (no time at work).

trukk
04-04-08, 01:14 PM
Awesome post trukk, will need to read this one tonight (no time at work).

Dazzle-em with Bullsh!t. What I lack in quality, I make up for in quantitiy :D

-Chris

Twitch
04-04-08, 01:33 PM
Awesome post trukk, will need to read this one tonight (no time at work).

I think imma just have my lawyer explain it to me.

Trukk,
Any idea (ballpark numbers) what I would get out of a cam? I would replace the rods, or whatever needs to be done with a cam swap.
HP n $$$ please.
Its a daily driver, so nothing crazy.
Thanks

heavymetals
04-04-08, 01:46 PM
Check out the Comp Cams #1500 system.

I use that one

trukk
04-04-08, 01:52 PM
I think imma just have my lawyer explain it to me.

Trukk,
Any idea (ballpark numbers) what I would get out of a cam? I would replace the rods, or whatever needs to be done with a cam swap.
HP n $$$ please.
Its a daily driver, so nothing crazy.
Thanks

The cost for a cam can add up quick.

I'd think a bargain basement do-it yourself, re-use mostl stuff cost would be about $800.

Texas Speed camshaft kit (camshaft, springs, pushrods included): $699.
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=175&catid=49

Gaskets, oil, misc (rent a pulley puller, etc.). With that though, you;d have to get a 'small' cam unless you want to pony up for a tune (another $500).

HP wise, you would see anywhere from 15 to 60 rwhp for a cam, and anywhere from 5 to 45 rwtq. The higher in num,ber you go the more supporting mods you'll need.

You end up getting what you pay for. In my mega post(s) above, I indicated that my cost is going to be a bit above $4k for all top shelf, max effort, installed and tuned by a pro.

-Chris

AlmostAV
04-04-08, 02:29 PM
trukk does it again!!!!
Nice info trukk - always stays on topic, and gives valuable researched info.
Thanks, great post.

Twitch
04-04-08, 02:32 PM
Cool, thanks.
Worth looking into. I have a Corvette shop not too far from me. When I'm ready, I'll go and have a talk with them.
Thanks guys

The Tony Show
04-04-08, 02:33 PM
Trukk is "The Man". :thumbsup:

Just an FYI though- it looks like Tbyrne Motorsports has taken a permanent vacation. I found this out when I was trying to get a copy of my Corsa proof of purchase. Their web site is down and no one answers the phone. :(

GMBOUND
04-04-08, 02:43 PM
Great write-up Trukk,

rangerrob
04-04-08, 03:17 PM
Trukk,

Very impressed by the time and detail you took into answering my question. I appreciate it. Can't wait to see it and meet you at Summit Point in May. :thumbsup:

trukk
04-04-08, 03:42 PM
Trukk is "The Man". :thumbsup:

Just an FYI though- it looks like Tbyrne Motorsports has taken a permanent vacation. I found this out when I was trying to get a copy of my Corsa proof of purchase. Their web site is down and no one answers the phone. :(

:blush:

that's a shame about Tbyrne. They were great when I ordered my headers from them. If they are out of the picture, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend:

Byunspeed
New Era Performance
Texas Speed
Thunder Racing

I've ordered from all of them and had no issues. Byunspeed was extra good, as I had a couple of issues with products not being available, etc., and they were super about their communication which is always good.

-Chris

PISNUOFF
04-04-08, 07:26 PM
Just an added note. I gained 70 rwhp on my LS2 with pretty much all the mods Trukk listed except underdriving the pulleys and a mild street tune (daily driver).

peedeerooster
04-05-08, 08:03 AM
Can you post your dyno sheet even though I have an LS6 with a few less cubes? Thanks

HushH
04-05-08, 10:16 AM
420/390 with cam and bolt-ons only here.

Excellent write-up trukk.

I only did the must-dos on your list with the exception of the ASP U/D pulley. It's relatively cheap and easy to do while you're in there that it almost falls in the must do category. Oh, and I ran the comp 918s for 6 months with no issues, but Comp swapped mine out for the 928s for free. I've had no problems with the beehive design and I am just over .600 lift.

StealthV
04-05-08, 10:34 AM
Trukk is "The Man". :thumbsup:

Just an FYI though- it looks like Tbyrne Motorsports has taken a permanent vacation.

Tom Byrne has $1300 of mine for a set of headers that I ordered. Seems old Tom wanted to hide some money and closed the doors overnight a few months ago. He owes a lot of people besides me money for things like Maggies that were never delivered.

Off with his head!

:giljotiini:

--------------------------------

Nice write up on the mods Chris - The new cam sounds interesting!

:yup:

blow03ss
04-05-08, 10:12 PM
The LS6 guys can see about 415HP with bolt on's and cam and the LS2 guys will see about 435 with the same stuff. I had a 05 V with all the normal crap like SW LT's and Magnaflow CB Volant CAI and TQ2 cam and made 413 on a mustang dyno. The LS2 guys are seeing 20-40 more HP with the same mods. Just some facts that I have seen with my cars. I will post up my dyno results soon and compare the LS6 with the LS2, both motors will have the same mods and cam.

peedeerooster
04-06-08, 06:58 AM
I am getting the resonator from trukk. I have recieved the volant CAI. I have ordered Kooks longtubes and catless connection pipe. I am only about 6 hours from Vengeance Racing in Georgia. I am pretty sure I will just take it to them and see what they can do for it with the addition of a cam. Hell while I am feeling frisky might just slap a set of AFR 205's on it to see what it will do.

Naf
04-06-08, 08:53 AM
STOP!!!!!

Dont just slap on heads..You have LS6 heads which have 210cc intake runners, the AFR 205 are exactly that, 205cc intake runners...

If you are lookin to make serious power with a few bolt ons, go up on the intake runner size, not down, Yes theoritically you will "accelerate" the air and cool it further, gainin torque, but you loose Hp in the long run... Go with the AFR 225 heads with a nice cam and intake system...

You have an LS6 Not a little LS1. Ls1 guys go with 205 runners for they have 200cc intake runners..Its a nice power adder for them...

You have to ask yourself a few questions

1. Where do i want the power
A. Low
B. Mid
C. Top end
2. Application
a. Daily driver
b. Weekend warrior
c. straight liner

The options are endlss for you...

I am lookin for mid to top end power weekend warrior, I am going the NA route, I am stickin to the GM cam for the center has been bored out, saving weight, upgradin the Timin chain, lifters, and rocker arms for higher RPM revs. Not to mention increasin the Compression and air supply. I am lookin at north of 420hp and 400ftlb at the rear wheel.

HushH
04-06-08, 10:28 AM
I am getting the resonator from trukk. I have recieved the volant CAI. I have ordered Kooks longtubes and catless connection pipe. I am only about 6 hours from Vengeance Racing in Georgia. I am pretty sure I will just take it to them and see what they can do for it with the addition of a cam. Hell while I am feeling frisky might just slap a set of AFR 205's on it to see what it will do.

The guys at Vengeance are top notch. :thumbsup: Just let Ron know what you're looking to get out of the car and he'll set you up with the right cam. And Mike can tune the hell out of it, so you shouldn't have to worry about drivability and street manners either.

If you're gonna do heads and you don't mind shelling out the extra dough, I'd consider a set of Trickflow 215s. Or if you're just looking for an extra 20 or so hp bump for under a grand then throw a fast intake on there.

trukk
04-06-08, 01:31 PM
I am getting the resonator from trukk. I have recieved the volant CAI. I have ordered Kooks longtubes and catless connection pipe. I am only about 6 hours from Vengeance Racing in Georgia. I am pretty sure I will just take it to them and see what they can do for it with the addition of a cam. Hell while I am feeling frisky might just slap a set of AFR 205's on it to see what it will do.

On it's way :D

I have spec'd all my mods towards AFR 205's as well.


STOP!!!!!

Dont just slap on heads..You have LS6 heads which have 210cc intake runners, the AFR 205 are exactly that, 205cc intake runners...

If you are lookin to make serious power with a few bolt ons, go up on the intake runner size, not down, Yes theoritically you will "accelerate" the air and cool it further, gainin torque, but you loose Hp in the long run... Go with the AFR 225 heads with a nice cam and intake system...

You have an LS6 Not a little LS1. Ls1 guys go with 205 runners for they have 200cc intake runners..Its a nice power adder for them...

You have to ask yourself a few questions

1. Where do i want the power
A. Low
B. Mid
C. Top end
2. Application
a. Daily driver
b. Weekend warrior
c. straight liner

The options are endlss for you...

I am lookin for mid to top end power weekend warrior, I am going the NA route, I am stickin to the GM cam for the center has been bored out, saving weight, upgradin the Timin chain, lifters, and rocker arms for higher RPM revs. Not to mention increasin the Compression and air supply. I am lookin at north of 420hp and 400ftlb at the rear wheel.

I don't agree with this NAF. AFR's are amazing. They take the small runner theory to the max. They don't sacrifice low and mid flow numbers for up top gains. They are still very stout up top, but's it all about that overall power under the curve.

Compare the flow numbers between the AFR's and the other 'hogged-out' big runner dwesigns. There is not much difference, and you give up all the low and mig range TQ.

Why do you think PatrickG switched from AFR 225's to AFR 205's when he was doing his 500 rwhp N/A 346? THEY WORK AND ARE PROVEN.

-Chris

JonCR96Z
04-06-08, 09:52 PM
STOP!!!!!

Dont just slap on heads..You have LS6 heads which have 210cc intake runners, the AFR 205 are exactly that, 205cc intake runners...

If you are lookin to make serious power with a few bolt ons, go up on the intake runner size, not down, Yes theoritically you will "accelerate" the air and cool it further, gainin torque, but you loose Hp in the long run... Go with the AFR 225 heads with a nice cam and intake system...

You have an LS6 Not a little LS1. Ls1 guys go with 205 runners for they have 200cc intake runners..Its a nice power adder for them...

It's not all about the size. Runner shape is what sets AFRs head and shoulders above stock castings. You have to do quiet a bit a porting to an LS6 to get flow number comparable to AFR 205s and by that time you've increased the volume way more.

Most shops porting heads have 230+cc intake ports on stock castings to match the high lift numbers of an AFR 205 and they're often still short on the low lifts. As you can imagine though the air speed is shot.

That is one area that most people don't think about, they will recommend a ported LS6 and say that AFR 225s (or the other large port premium castings) are too big. My point being that either head will work fine and neither are going to hurt you, it really just depends on what you want.

I went with 205s and a not so big cam (230/236) to help get my pig heavy Cadillac moving. In a lighter car or for more of a track oriented car it's probably best to go for the bigger setup.

Jon

peedeerooster
04-07-08, 01:43 AM
Guys I appreciate the input and I agree with some of you. The ported LS6 heads can't come even close to the area under the curve of the AFR's.

peedeerooster
04-11-08, 07:39 AM
Well, thought I would let you guys know what I decided. I gave Vengeance Racing a deposit yesterday to order all the parts. I have an appointment for May the 7th. I am doing a Volant CAI, ported 90MM throttlebody, Ported fast intake, Trickflow 215CC CNC heads, Yella terra roller rockers, hardened pushrods, VRX3 camshaft, ASP pulley, Kooks headers with catless connection pipes and a corsa resonator with h-pipe connected to the rest of the stock catback. I will let you guys know what she dynos after it is done. Anybody want to guess, because I will post the numbers. I will not be ashamed of what it does.

rand49er
04-11-08, 08:14 AM
Well, thought I would let you guys know what I decided. I gave Vengeance Racing a deposit yesterday to order all the parts. I have an appointment for May the 7th. I am doing a Volant CAI, ported 90MM throttlebody, Ported fast intake, Trickflow 215CC CNC heads, Yella terra roller rockers, hardened pushrods, VRX3 camshaft, ASP pulley, Kooks headers with catless connection pipes and a corsa resonator with h-pipe connected to the rest of the stock catback. I will let you guys know what she dynos after it is done. Anybody want to guess, because I will post the numbers. I will not be ashamed of what it does.Whoa! You're doing some serious business there ... looks good! BTW, do you have a "before" dyno to really nail down your gain?

(Comin' to the party late here, but gotta say kudos to Chris on that writeup. :yup:)

trukk
04-11-08, 09:16 AM
Well, thought I would let you guys know what I decided. I gave Vengeance Racing a deposit yesterday to order all the parts. I have an appointment for May the 7th. I am doing a Volant CAI, ported 90MM throttlebody, Ported fast intake, Trickflow 215CC CNC heads, Yella terra roller rockers, hardened pushrods, VRX3 camshaft, ASP pulley, Kooks headers with catless connection pipes and a corsa resonator with h-pipe connected to the rest of the stock catback. I will let you guys know what she dynos after it is done. Anybody want to guess, because I will post the numbers. I will not be ashamed of what it does.

Vengance has been putting down some phenominal numbers over on LS1Tech. Should be a screamer when you are done. I'm guessing 440 rwhp.

We are going to be very similar, less the Trick Flows of course. Cam's are damn close, and most of the other bits are the same. Are you doing anything for fueling? You;ll either need more injector, or a boost-a-pump at that HP level.


Whoa! You're doing some serious business there ... looks good! BTW, do you have a "before" dyno to really nail down your gain?

(Comin' to the party late here, but gotta say kudos to Chris on that writeup. :yup:)

Thanks :thumbsup:. My Car is finally at the shop getting my cam and the other bits installed. I hope to have it back by late Sunday. I'll definately post my results.

-Chris

JonCR96Z
04-11-08, 12:44 PM
I'm gonna say 457rwhp and 433rwtq assuming dynojet. For Trukk I'll guess 435rwhp/398rwtq - mustang dyno.

trukk
04-11-08, 01:21 PM
I'm gonna say 457rwhp and 433rwtq assuming dynojet. For Trukk I'll guess 435rwhp/398rwtq - mustang dyno.

The Mustang that will be used for tuning right now has me at 355 rwhp (not sure the tq, becuase I don't have that dyno sheet.)

I'll be happy with 390, but hopping for 400+.

On the dyno on my sig I'd say 415 would make me happy. I'd be bouncing off the walls if I saw a +55 rwhp from this install :bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:.

-Chris

peedeerooster
04-11-08, 07:15 PM
I will ask them if they will do a before pull on the dyno.

HushH
04-12-08, 09:55 AM
Sounds like a great combo. I'll got out on a limb and say 470/450.

JonCR96Z
04-13-08, 04:43 PM
Thanks :thumbsup:. My Car is finally at the shop getting my cam and the other bits installed. I hope to have it back by late Sunday. I'll definately post my results.

-Chris

We're waiting...

rangerrob
04-13-08, 06:14 PM
Trukk, any news on the install???? anxious to see the results!

trukk
04-14-08, 02:11 PM
GOT MY CAR BACK! :D

I've got no numbers yet though :(

Basically, I got everything installed, and have a rough tune on the car. My tunner was very backed up and couldn't get it on the dyno yet to dial that in.

He did but a baseline tune, for the injectors, etc. to get it to idle, then did a drive around test to put a rough tune on the car. So far I've driven it about 60 miles, and no CEL yet, which is good :thumbsup:. The car is set to idle right now around 975 rpm's, so that obviously needs to be tweeked. Depending on my appointment with Lindasay to get the UUC prototypes installed on my car (set for Wednesday right now, but still wating on the Motor mounts to be shipped, trans mount is already there). If Lindsay get's pushed back, then I'll try and get the car in this week. If not, then I probably won't get the car fully tuned and have numbers untill next week.

Initial impressions are good. I have my lost TQ back (from the FAST 90/90 install) and then some :D. Car feel very responsive from 2500+. With the idle set at 975, it suprisingly has very little lope, which I was a bit concerned about with a 111 LSA cam. You can definately tell it's not stock, but it doesn't have that 'WTF is in that car!' sound, which again is good (it's a caddy). We'll see how hard it lopes after the idle is brough back down.

It does surge a abit , when the clutch is depressed, while the car is moving (up to about 1800 RPM's), but that's something that will get mopped up with the final tune.

At low RPM's in a low gear, going slow ( say 20 mph in 2nd at about 1500 RPM), I can definately hear my new injectors CLICKING away. I always liked the way my buddies Viper did that at low RPM. We'll see how I feel in a few months :D. The rest of the valve train is quiet as stock, which was a pleasant surprise. I expected to be able to here some of the new valve train components clacking around. *Hopefully*, this will not change, as I was somewhat dreading getting the 'sewing machine' sound. Perhaps my anal retentiveness with components paid off :D, agai, we'll see over the next few hundred miles, as it breaks in.

I have yet to go WOT, waiting for the final tune, but so far, so good :D. This morning at cold start, it definately has more bark, and more lope, than stock, and when I first started it up yesterday, while it was somewhat hot.

I'll start a new thread, once I have some numbers.

-Chris

peedeerooster
04-18-08, 11:41 PM
Trukk, post up your numbers when you get them. I know you can't compare them to mine because vengeance has a dynojet. That alone will make them at least 20rwhp higher even though it's really not. When I get mine back from vengeance on May the 9th, I will see if I can get them to email the graph and I will post it up in case anyone else is considering doing H/C/I like I am. I know any one considering it would like to know what they can get with the like mods I am doing. I know I would like to see when looking. Even though we don't have a rear to drag race, I will take it to the strip and at least get the trap speed. That is the real indicator of horsepower anyway. So, I will take it and roll out and see what it will do in the 1/4 mile trap speed wise.

JonCR96Z
04-19-08, 10:20 AM
Most mustang dynos will be right with Dynojet numbers with a value of 4000lbs entered for vehicle weight. I'd say within 10rwhp. Still too many other factors to truly compare dynos numbers though.

Another thing is that you have to leave so easy at the dragstrip that it will hurt your mph too.

peedeerooster
07-12-08, 07:35 PM
Guys, thought I would update you on what happened. When the car was finished at Vengeance, it only pulled 430/400 sae net and Mike told me the Corsa midpipe and stock catback was holding the other parts that I bought back. Since I was 9 hours from Vengeance, I got another shop to install the Magnaflow Xpipe and catback. They pulled the car and horsepower was in the 440's, but the injector duty cycle was high and the car was pulling timning to 22 degrees. He ordered as set of 42 lb injectors. I took the car back last Thursday for him to install the new injetors and retune it. Guess what, 465rwhp/437rwtq sae net. I also had a UUC shifter and Lindsay bushings installed. I am very happy now. It really is impressive to be all motor. If anyone want the exact list of modifications, I can list them, just ask. Thanks

CTSV_510
07-12-08, 08:05 PM
Guess what, 465rwhp/437rwtq sae net... If anyone want the exact list of modifications, I can list them, just ask. Thanks

Yes, please!

peedeerooster
07-12-08, 08:49 PM
Hope I haven't forgot anything. I will start from the cold air and got to the exhaust tips.

Volant cold air
descreened maf
Vengeance ported 90MM trottlebody
Vengeance ported 92MM fast intake
42lb SVO injectors
Trickflow 215 CNC ported heads
Yella Terra roller rockers
Vengeance VRX3 camshaft
Underdrive pulley
Kooks 1 3/4" jet hot headers
Magnaflow offroad xpipe
Magnaflow Catback
Final tune was at Carolina Speed shop in Conway, SC using EFI live software.

I think that is it. If I left something out and remember it, I will come back and modify the post. If this package had more cam and did not have the heavy flywheel and rear we have, I think it would push 500hp. But, you know the CTSV needs more torque, thus the VRX3. I now have 380+ ft/lbs of torque at 3000 RPM. Torque is over 400ft/lbs at around 3400 RPM. It will really push this car effortlessly. Also, if you roll into the throttle at around 2000 RPM in 2nd gear, when the tach gets to around 5000 rpm, it is spinning the tires in second gear. I though that was impressive for a naturally aspirated 346. Also the torque peaks at 4700rpm and horsepower peaks at only 6200 RPM. Torque stays over 380 ft/lbs from 3000 RPM to 5800 RPM.

trukk
07-12-08, 11:35 PM
Hope I haven't forgot anything. I will start from the cold air and got to the exhaust tips.

Volant cold air
descreened maf
Vengeance ported 90MM trottlebody
Vengeance ported 92MM fast intake
42lb SVO injectors
Trickflow 215 CNC ported heads
Yella Terra roller rockers
Vengeance VRX3 camshaft
Underdrive pulley
Kooks 1 3/4" jet hot headers
Magnaflow offroad xpipe
Magnaflow Catback
Final tune was at Carolina Speed shop in Conway, SC using EFI live software.

I think that is it. If I left something out and remember it, I will come back and modify the post. If this package had more cam and did not have the heavy flywheel and rear we have, I think it would push 500hp. But, you know the CTSV needs more torque, thus the VRX3. I now have 380+ ft/lbs of torque at 3000 RPM. Torque is over 400ft/lbs at around 3400 RPM. It will really push this car effortlessly. Also, if you roll into the throttle at around 2000 RPM in 2nd gear, when the tach gets to around 5000 rpm, it is spinning the tires in second gear. I though that was impressive for a naturally aspirated 346. Also the torque peaks at 4700rpm and horsepower peaks at only 6200 RPM. Torque stays over 380 ft/lbs from 3000 RPM to 5800 RPM.


AWESOME NUMBERS!

I need to get some heads :D

-Chris

peedeerooster
07-13-08, 12:40 AM
I think the heads are ultimately responsible for the torque I am now making, Makes it very fun to just pull out and accelerate taking each gear to about 3500 RPM's. If just pulls the car well.

JonCR96Z
07-13-08, 01:46 AM
I'm gonna say 457rwhp and 433rwtq assuming dynojet. For Trukk I'll guess 435rwhp/398rwtq - mustang dyno.


Guess what, 465rwhp/437rwtq sae net.

I'm gonna have to start betting on this stuff. I got Trukk's HP on the money and within 3 on the TQ. And what 8 rwhp/4 rwtq on PDR's (and Vengeance's dyno is on up there in the happiness scale).

You guys are in the presence of greatness and you didn't even know it. Buleedat Ked!!

Twitch
07-13-08, 10:41 AM
Hope I haven't forgot anything. I will start from the cold air and got to the exhaust tips.

Volant cold air
descreened maf
Vengeance ported 90MM trottlebody
Vengeance ported 92MM fast intake
42lb SVO injectors
Trickflow 215 CNC ported heads
Yella Terra roller rockers
Vengeance VRX3 camshaft
Underdrive pulley
Kooks 1 3/4" jet hot headers
Magnaflow offroad xpipe
Magnaflow Catback
Final tune was at Carolina Speed shop in Conway, SC using EFI live software.

I think that is it. If I left something out and remember it, I will come back and modify the post. If this package had more cam and did not have the heavy flywheel and rear we have, I think it would push 500hp. But, you know the CTSV needs more torque, thus the VRX3. I now have 380+ ft/lbs of torque at 3000 RPM. Torque is over 400ft/lbs at around 3400 RPM. It will really push this car effortlessly. Also, if you roll into the throttle at around 2000 RPM in 2nd gear, when the tach gets to around 5000 rpm, it is spinning the tires in second gear. I though that was impressive for a naturally aspirated 346. Also the torque peaks at 4700rpm and horsepower peaks at only 6200 RPM. Torque stays over 380 ft/lbs from 3000 RPM to 5800 RPM.
So what's the total cost, and where is vengeance? How long did they have your car?

Tony

jerrycecco
07-13-08, 11:25 AM
wow, I posted something on the Maggie thread I should have posted here:

I have a 2004 CTS-V.......I did the supercharger, tuning, pulley, suspension (all the work) to a 1996 Cobra, when I live in Oakland.
Today, I live in Dallas where the temps get into the 90+ ALOT, I'm looking at cam and headers.
I beleive the LS6 V's put down about 330RWhp (correct me if I'm wrong)
After talking with QMS in Lewisville, hitting 410+ rwhp is acheivable.
So I'm looking at getting the Kooks 1 3/4 headers, cam*, ported/polished throttle body/intake & tune.
*Only question is cam size. Patrick @ QMS talked about two cams:
street cam @ 224/232 or step up cam @ 228/236.
From the dyno sheet attached I like the step up cam, but like to see how it idles and how the cars drives at low, parking lot speeds.

Q to CTS-V owners with cams: What cams your running? what HP did you achieve? quality of ride post cam installation?

--Jerry

onebadcad
07-13-08, 11:41 AM
I need to get some heads :D

-Chris

You looking to bet banned bro'?!?!-JFWY.

Look into Patriot, half the price/twice the value, unless of course you still have money the wifey does not know about.

HushH
07-13-08, 06:22 PM
... (and Vengeance's dyno is on up there in the happiness scale)...


I've found just the opposite to be true. Most everyone that I know that has dynoed at Vengeance and on another Dynojet has made more elsewhere.

trukk
07-13-08, 07:29 PM
wow, I posted something on the Maggie thread I should have posted here:

I have a 2004 CTS-V.......I did the supercharger, tuning, pulley, suspension (all the work) to a 1996 Cobra, when I live in Oakland.
Today, I live in Dallas where the temps get into the 90+ ALOT, I'm looking at cam and headers.
I beleive the LS6 V's put down about 330RWhp (correct me if I'm wrong)
After talking with QMS in Lewisville, hitting 410+ rwhp is acheivable.
So I'm looking at getting the Kooks 1 3/4 headers, cam*, ported/polished throttle body/intake & tune.
*Only question is cam size. Patrick @ QMS talked about two cams:
street cam @ 224/232 or step up cam @ 228/236.
From the dyno sheet attached I like the step up cam, but like to see how it idles and how the cars drives at low, parking lot speeds.

Q to CTS-V owners with cams: What cams your running? what HP did you achieve? quality of ride post cam installation?

--Jerry


224/228 111+0, .609/.588 xe-r/xfi. added +57 rwhp, +45 rwtq:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2004/139034-cam-results-57-rwhp-45-rwtq.html

-Chris

JonCR96Z
07-13-08, 08:21 PM
I've found just the opposite to be true. Most everyone that I know that has dynoed at Vengeance and on another Dynojet has made more elsewhere.

Oh I thought that I had heard that somewhere, maybe I was mistaken.

PISNUOFF
07-13-08, 10:02 PM
Oh I thought that I had heard that somewhere, maybe I was mistaken.


I've found just the opposite to be true, Dumba$$. Most everyone that I know that has dynoed at Vengeance and on another Dynojet has made more elsewhere. I don't know where you get your crappy information from, but you need to quit opening your huge pie hole when you don't have a damn clue what you are talking about.

What a tough crowd.:histeric:

JonCR96Z
07-13-08, 11:46 PM
Our dyno is super high. We pride ourselves on having the highest numbers on any dyno in the world. I've read posts that claim that our numbers are not exaggerated and that is absolutely not the case. We have had stock C5 vettes put down over 450rwhp on our dyno. If you don't appreciate that, then you can take your super low dyno graph and shove it right up your dynos operators ass. So quit being little whinny ass bitches and put down the dyno numbers on our dyno that most only dream about.

I was just going by what the guy at Vengeance said.:suspect: Sorry to upset you HushH

PISNUOFF
07-14-08, 12:56 AM
:yeah:

rand49er
07-14-08, 03:03 PM
What a tough crowd.:histeric:Took a double take on this one. I don't care who you are, that there was funny!

I've never heard HushH to be mean to anyone ... very even-tempered, thoughtful guy. And, didn't remember his reply sounding so downright nasty. Geez, if you don't go back and reread the original post, somebody could really stir things up here!

:histeric:

peedeerooster
07-14-08, 10:54 PM
Guys, when I dynoed near home after Vengeance had installed the parts and tuned it, it was less than 10hp greater than the 430/400 I had dynoed at Vengeance. That was after adding the Magnaflow Xpipe and catback to get the extra 10rwhp. So, there dyno is not generous. To get the 465/437 on the local dyno now versus Vengeance dyno, I had added the Magnaflow Xpipe, catback and 42lb injectors plus tuned again. I think all these numbers add up and prove that Vengeances' dyno is not generous. Since I dynoed on a different dyno and picked up 35/37 sae net, it came from better exhaust flow plus the 42lb injectors and a retune. It all makes sense to me and I can definetely fell the differnce. Looks like the 430/400 that I got from the Vengeance dyno was spot on compared to where I am now. There dyno is not lying. After what I had done, I really believe that the Vengeance dyno is accurate. Thanks.

Maximusthefarmer
07-15-08, 12:11 AM
Peedeerooster, do you mind sharing what your setup from Vengeance cost you? I am moving to Florida soon and am seriously considering dropping my car off at Vengeance on the way down..those are some great numbers. After missing out on the StealthV maggie, I am ready to spend some money for some serious hp.

peedeerooster
07-15-08, 12:45 AM
What they charged me was what I would have considered to be very fair price wise. When I started, my car was box stock. To get it where it is today, I have over $9000 dollars in it. But, like I said, if you total my complete bill up, the price was fair. They charged me around $1200 for installing all of the parts and $500 or so to tune it. The thing is when you buy a good set of heads and all of the right parts to support it, you might as well go ahead and plan on that range. It might have been a little cheaper to do a Maggie, but I am pleased to be making what I have on all motor. It's like the $500 to do the roller rockers, but if you don't on a daily driver like I have and run a high lift cam, the bronze valve guides will wear out in around 10k miles. So it is not cheap to build that much power NA for a daily driver running 93 octane. The heads and the rockers alone will push $3000 dollars alone. I have Kooks jet hot headers and that is another $1000 dollars right there. So when you add up the parts to buy what I have it is not cheap. Like I said, the labor for the install and tune was only about $1700, the rest is in parts. Just for all the right parts was over $7000. So that's how the numbers add up. You can go this route or the Maggie and be close. It is my opinion alone that a well built NA motor will live much longer when it is a daily driver like mine. That's why I went the NA route. I just think there is alot more pressure on the bottom end with a supercharger. It is my opinion that if you are going to run a supercharger, that a built bottom end is needed for a daily driver.

Maximusthefarmer
07-15-08, 01:35 AM
I was leaning toward N/A, and now I definitely think that is the route I want to go. Thanks for the info, I am gonna give Vengeance a call sometime this week and see what we can work out.

rand49er
07-15-08, 07:44 AM
The stresses on the bottom end of the motor are in direct relation to the power output. To push a CTS-V down the road as a DD takes no more or no less power whether it's NA or FI. Only if one is pushed faster than the other do the stresses on the bottom end become higher.

IMHO, staying NA and attempting to get similar power with FI (assuming an LS6 application), means you have to get pretty exotic with the valvetrain, and because you shift the torque curve higher you sacrifice too much power in the lower RPMs. Also, both approaches have their issues (e.g. broken valve springs vs grounding problems with the Magnavolt, etc, etc), and the harder you push the car the more issues you'll have regardless of which way you go.

Just my $0.02.

JonCR96Z
07-15-08, 01:32 PM
The stresses on the bottom end of the motor are in direct relation to the power output. To push a CTS-V down the road as a DD takes no more or no less power whether it's NA or FI. Only if one is pushed faster than the other do the stresses on the bottom end become higher.

IMHO, staying NA and attempting to get similar power with FI (assuming an LS6 application), means you have to get pretty exotic with the valvetrain, and because you shift the torque curve higher you sacrifice too much power in the lower RPMs. Also, both approaches have their issues (e.g. broken valve springs vs grounding problems with the Magnavolt, etc, etc), and the harder you push the car the more issues you'll have regardless of which way you go.

Just my $0.02.

Making big power on any combo can be hard on the bottom end, but you have to think that with a supercharger your making big power but your also putting a little more stress on the crank turning the blower pulley. Plus if lean conditions occur then the chances of failure go up more with power adders.

Like you said though, pluses and minuses either way.

Jon

CTSV_Rob
07-15-08, 02:34 PM
I want to see the Dyno charts for both configs, come on guys, step up and post those pics.

I like the low end torque and that's what pushed me into the FI route. You can get it with a Head/Cam swap but I'm afraid I will need to go a little too far with the cam to get the numbers I'm looking for.

I still need to get this car to pass smog in the next couple of years. Don't want to need to change too much or the car will sit for a while during the conversion.

Twitch
07-15-08, 02:44 PM
WOW,,,did this turn into a Maggie thread or what?
Doesn't sound like the N/A guys have too much going for them :hide:

CTSV_Rob
07-15-08, 04:18 PM
trukk is the bad a$$ now and he will stand up for the NA crowd.

I would be happy with either but you need to decide which trade off's you can live with and which one's you cannot. Kind of like being married. :D

rand49er
07-15-08, 04:56 PM
trukk is the bad a$$ now and he will stand up for the NA crowd. ...Chris has a great setup and great sound, too. No taking away anything from him at all.

Depending on your situation, one route may make sense over the other. Since I'm a DIY-kinda guy and didn't want to get too deeply into the motor, I preferred the bolt on route which, btw, ties into the title of this thread. Plus, I was always told that if you didn't have to crack open a motor (e.g. to repair a bearing), then it's best to leave it alone.

Finally, you can always get bigger power going FI compared to NA in a given application. However, you must stay within the strength limitations of the motor or the argument is moot. The consensus of opinion on this forum here in the past has usually been that a maggie running below about 8 psi was about at that maximum allowable stress level for an LS6 bottom end.

trukk
07-15-08, 06:03 PM
I want to see the Dyno charts for both configs, come on guys, step up and post those pics.

I'm not sure who that was directed at. Here is my dyno graph:

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/9959/2008apr30camdynosmalljq3.jpg


trukk is the bad a$$ now and he will stand up for the NA crowd.


BAH, I just have a cam, not even heads and cam. The OP's recipe trounces mine.

As everyone has said, each way has it's pros and cons. Either way you pick, you win!

-Chris

CTSV_Rob
07-15-08, 06:18 PM
It was pointed at anyone that would post a graph. Like the Torque numbers, used to seeing the initial torque drop off when a new Cam is selected, I like your choice. Still a flat torque curve and that's what I was going for. Nice trukk.

When you going to go with the new heads? (Don't tell me your not thinking about it :D)

trukk
07-15-08, 06:50 PM
It was pointed at anyone that would post a graph. Like the Torque numbers, used to seeing the initial torque drop off when a new Cam is selected, I like your choice. Still a flat torque curve and that's what I was going for. Nice trukk.

When you going to go with the new heads? (Don't tell me your not thinking about it :D)

Of course I'm thinking about it :D

My issue is that the Heads would make it a better street car, however it is starting to near it's end of life as a street car, thus I might put money more towards the track mods.

-Chris

PISNUOFF
07-15-08, 06:53 PM
Here's mine prior to larger injectors, ZO6 clutch and flywheel, and additional tuning. N/A also.

CTSV_Rob
07-15-08, 07:44 PM
Of course I'm thinking about it :D

My issue is that the Heads would make it a better street car, however it is starting to near it's end of life as a street car, thus I might put money more towards the track mods.

-Chris
I would think the heads would help you on the track as well. Are leaning more toward suspension mods now?

rand49er
07-15-08, 08:26 PM
... it is starting to near it's end of life as a street car ...Chris, you're not thinking of going the Chef route, are you?

Track jones ... Chris has track jones. :suspense:

peedeerooster
07-15-08, 10:30 PM
I do not have the capability of scanning and posting my graph, however I can just post it in a spread sheet type format from the dyno sheet if you guys want to know. I know I had 380+ ft/lbs of torque at 3000 Rpm and around 367 ft/lbs at 6500 rpm. I can post it in that type format with the hp and torque at every 500 rpms from 3000 to 6500 rpms if you guys want me to do that. I do not have a scanner.

rand49er
07-16-08, 11:05 AM
I want to see the Dyno charts for both configs, come on guys, step up and post those pics. ...With no scanner, this is pretty crude. Note flat torque "curve" ...

CTSV_Rob
07-16-08, 11:26 AM
I like.

trukk
07-16-08, 03:03 PM
Here's mine prior to larger injectors, ZO6 clutch and flywheel, and additional tuning. N/A also.

What's with the A/F spike between 3000 and 4000?


I would think the heads would help you on the track as well. Are leaning more toward suspension mods now?

Once this transitions over to a track car, I need to do more safety and reliability mods first:

- Oil Cooler
- Upgrade PS cooler
- Maybee a diff cooler
- PS resevoir (that little cap sucks ass and always leaks)
- 6 point cage
- Seats
- Tow hooks
- WEIGHT REDUCTION!!!

Perhaps after that a suspension upgrade. I have 74k miles now, so my struts are getting a bit long in the tooth. I will also need a new clutch at one point in the not too distant future, at which time I'll also do a lightened Flywheel.


Chris, you're not thinking of going the Chef route, are you?

Track jones ... Chris has track jones. :suspense:

I'm not going to go that nuts. I just want to run on the track more reliably, without beating up my dailly driver so much. My car will probabaly take a break for a bit from track duty untill I get a new daily driver (probabaly either a 135 or a solstice gxp coupe). I'm at the point now, where my driver mod has gotten a bit better, and with the mods I have now, I'm really pushing the car at the track, which isn't so smart on a car you have to drive to work to on monday.


With no scanner, this is pretty crude. Note flat torque "curve" ...

Flatter than my first girlfriend.

-Chris

sleepys4
07-24-08, 11:58 PM
This is all great information. Thanks you to all that have posted. I will be calling vengeance racing in the near future!

rand49er
07-25-08, 07:46 AM
... Flatter than my first girlfriend.

-ChrisKindergarten?


Good luck, Sleepy. Whatever you end up doing, you're gonna have fun! :thumbsup:

JonCR96Z
07-25-08, 12:26 PM
Final tune was at Carolina Speed shop in Conway, SC using EFI live software.



Where are you located that you have a NC phone number take your car to GA to get heads/cam and get it tuned in Conway?

HushH
07-26-08, 10:15 PM
What a tough crowd.:histeric:


I was just going by what the guy at Vengeance said.:suspect: Sorry to upset you HushH

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/HushH/lolowl.jpg

You guys are cracking me up. I don't know how I missed all that stuff earlier. Dyno Wars FTMFW!!!

Oh and here's my cam-only graph. Thought I had posted it earlier in this thread but I guess not.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/HushH/CamDyno20018.jpg

peedeerooster
07-28-08, 04:21 PM
I am located in Southport, NC. Nowhere to go but west.