: The Ultimate FWD Cadillac Northstar Build



AJxtcman
03-28-08, 09:20 AM
Any thoughts on this?
I am thinking a what if or the dream car.

I was thinking an 2003 STS with F55.
Corsa Exhaust?
Exhaust Manifold Front Pipe replacment?
Custom tuned PCM?
Injectors?
Stall converter?
Shift Kit?
CAI?
NOS?
16 injectors?
8 Throttle bodies? It can be done on the stock PCM.

Submariner409
03-28-08, 11:45 AM
AJ, Sounds ambitious !!! Every one of the ideas is do-able, but is there a way to do them in some order, test each mod for good or bad, and then go on ? Lots of design and fabrication, but if the work went well it could be applied to a daily driver.

The 8 TB idea sounds intriguing.....linkages would be hairy, but the setup could look like one of our old 4-dual choke Weber installs on a McLaren/Elva/Chevy. (lock your hands together with alternating fingers and you'll have an idea of what it looks like), but then the only possible CAI is a shaker hood, and NO would complicate things, but might be done with lots of tubing.

CadillacSTS42005
03-28-08, 01:51 PM
sounds like my car
got the 03 and F55 down pat
Corsa is installed too
tried making a front header pipe and im an exhaust tech more power to ya if you can come up with that the xover is a bit*h to attempt to not only reproduce the bends but also allow enough clearance so as everytime the engine moves the pipe isnt banging into something...
when are we doing it
hahahaha

AJxtcman
04-04-08, 08:27 AM
This is getting closer to reality for a FWD Cadillac.
It maybe closer than I know.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/306818277.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/306818276.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/Northstar/306818274.jpg

Submariner409
04-04-08, 11:11 AM
Where the devil did you find dual choke TB's ?? (old school.......yeah, I know: dual throat, dual bore. Whatever...)

stoveguyy
04-04-08, 02:33 PM
do you think that will fit under a stock hood? how about the air filters? i am waiting to see a FWD caddy with HRF 4 barrel intake/carb installed.

AJxtcman
04-04-08, 03:28 PM
Where the devil did you find dual choke TB's ?? (old school.......yeah, I know: dual throat, dual bore. Whatever...)

Multi (8) throttle body Northstar! (http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087315.html)

CadillacSTS42005
04-04-08, 03:51 PM
do you think that will fit under a stock hood? how about the air filters? i am waiting to see a FWD caddy with HRF 4 barrel intake/carb installed.

Mark99STS
i believe thats his new fuel system

AJ she looks sa-weeeet

Submariner409
04-04-08, 06:17 PM
hell, no, it won't fit under the hood. AJ's messing with a Fiero...if that rig went into a Seville it would require some sort of bubble or shaker. And with no air filter(s) the engine would last about 6 months on the road. Stick filters on that rig and the vapor standoff column is distorted and you lose the advantage of having a single choke feed a single cylinder. The runner and stack lengths are critical in order to tune the rig to a very specific band of rpm. As in most any V8 or V12 which ran similar rigs, the engine won't even get "on the pipe" until 3,500 - 4,000 rpm and over. Idle speed ??? 1,200 - 1,750, depending on cams.

IMSAnorthstar
04-06-08, 10:33 PM
hell, no, it won't fit under the hood. AJ's messing with a Fiero...if that rig went into a Seville it would require some sort of bubble or shaker. And with no air filter(s) the engine would last about 6 months on the road. Stick filters on that rig and the vapor standoff column is distorted and you lose the advantage of having a single choke feed a single cylinder. The runner and stack lengths are critical in order to tune the rig to a very specific band of rpm. As in most any V8 or V12 which ran similar rigs, the engine won't even get "on the pipe" until 3,500 - 4,000 rpm and over. Idle speed ??? 1,200 - 1,750, depending on cams.

how much clearance do you have between the top of the TB and hood on your Caddy? It would most likely take some doing, but I believe you could get this under many hoods with some clever engineering :duck: . the ITB normally uses an air box which encloses the stacks shown above, and then the air intake comes in from the side of the box and remote air filter similar to the stock system. with the required clearance for airflow conciderations, above the stack tops, the whole package is about 5" taller than the top of the stock Caddy TB. power comes on (tested by seat of the pants dyno) at around 2500 and pulls for..... as many RPM as you dare. idle speed can be set as low as 600 RPM with the Holley Commander. 1,000 - 1100 is normal on the 7730 GM unit.

IMSA

CadillacSTS42005
04-06-08, 10:36 PM
imsa???

Submariner409
04-06-08, 10:58 PM
International Motor Sports Association. As in SCCA. Probably not enough room under the hood: it's pretty tight, and I'm factoring in air turbulence in a second enclosure. Yeah, idle speeds were stated from a pretty radical road course cam 327 V-8 setup. Still, there's a lot of TB area for an otherwise stock 280 c.i. engine. You could install a cupped heat baffle under the TB flanges and smear grease all over inside of the box/baffle to trap the gravel, at least. Gonna take some careful fuel mapping. Fun, and the sound is absolutely mind-boggling at 6,000+. With valve springs and titanium retainers I'll bet you could safely twist a late (roller) non-emissions Northstar to around 8,000+. Heck, if an old 1966 Ferrari lash cap 3.0L V-12 can go 10,000, a Northstar could come close with its slightly oversquare bore. (The engine has no stroke: it just vibrates up and down...........)

BUT there's something to remember here: This would NOT be an engine for a 4,000 lb. Seville sidewinder stock automatic daily driver. Not by a long shot.

AJxtcman
04-06-08, 11:15 PM
how much clearance do you have between the top of the TB and hood on your Caddy? It would most likely take some doing, but I believe you could get this under many hoods with some clever engineering :duck: . the ITB normally uses an air box which encloses the stacks shown above, and then the air intake comes in from the side of the box and remote air filter similar to the stock system. with the required clearance for airflow conciderations, above the stack tops, the whole package is about 5" taller than the top of the stock Caddy TB. power comes on (tested by seat of the pants dyno) at around 2500 and pulls for..... as many RPM as you dare. idle speed can be set as low as 600 RPM with the Holley Commander. 1,000 - 1100 is normal on the 7730 GM unit.

IMSA
Come on play nice. :thumbsup:
My LS1 PCM will run that setup. Like Sub said before tilt the t-bodies in and make them cross. You know like the old Dodge 413 cross ram.
Then run some pipes along the Valve covers back to an air box over the Trans.


International Motor Sports Association. As in SCCA. Probably not enough room under the hood: it's pretty tight, and I'm factoring in air turbulence in a second enclosure. Yeah, idle speeds were stated from a pretty radical road course cam 327 V-8 setup. Still, there's a lot of TB area for an otherwise stock 280 c.i. engine. You could install a cupped heat baffle under the TB flanges and smear grease all over inside of the box/baffle to trap the gravel, at least. Gonna take some careful fuel mapping. Fun, and the sound is absolutely mind-boggling at 6,000+. With valve springs and titanium retainers I'll bet you could safely twist a late (roller) non-emissions Northstar to around 8,000+. Heck, if an old 1966 Ferrari lash cap 3.0L V-12 can go 10,000, a Northstar could come close with its slightly oversquare bore. (The engine has no stroke: it just vibrates up and down...........)

With out people like IMSA we would have no glory from the Northstar. All you would here about is You can't modify it and they blow head gaskets.

If you talk nice to IMSA maybe he will give you a ride. I think you may need to sign a waiver.

IMSAnorthstar
04-06-08, 11:32 PM
Come on play nice. :thumbsup:
My LS1 PCM will run that setup. Like Sub said before tilt the t-bodies in and make them cross. You know like the old Dodge 413 cross ram.
Then run some pipes along the Valve covers back to an air box over the Trans.



With out people like IMSA we would have no glory from the Northstar. All you would here about is You can't modify it and they blow head gaskets.

If you talk nice to IMSA maybe he will give you a ride. I think you may need to sign a waiver.

I always play nice. you know that AJ. :)

Crossing the TB would work out well on a street rod or other long-wise engine configuration, but a sidewinder poses some challenges. I might not get to that project until sometime in my next life.

Sub, I'm running my ITB on an otherwise stock vin 9 motor in a ~ 3000 lb cruiser/weekend warrior/toy car with no problems, so you might be surprised at just how tame the setup _can_ be made. I am running a 5 speed. and yes, mine is in one of those "F" cars like AJ has :)

IMSA

CadillacSTS42005
04-06-08, 11:37 PM
oh
i know that IMSA is
i didnt know who or what part he is from if any
IMSA we have to thank for the twin turbo 4.0 32v Cadillac LMP racer....

dkozloski
04-06-08, 11:53 PM
What did they use on the IRL Auroras? There ought to be a lot of that stuff laying around if you know where to look for it.

eldorado1
04-07-08, 12:11 AM
8 Throttle bodies? It can be done on the stock PCM.

AJ, why would you want to do that? You said you would lose horsepower?


It has to do with volumetric efficiency. You need to have the air not stall out. A blower will fix it.

btw, what happened to your blower project?

IMSAnorthstar
04-07-08, 12:41 AM
What did they use on the IRL Auroras? There ought to be a lot of that stuff laying around if you know where to look for it.

Unfortunatly the IRL Aurora motor has no parts in common with production Northstars. they were a purpose built engine.

AJxtcman
04-07-08, 08:42 AM
AJ, why would you want to do that? You said you would lose horsepower?



btw, what happened to your blower project?

Come on Ryan!
I bolted in a PCM straight from Wester's. I noticed the long term fuel trim was -25% :(
I hooked up the correct MAF for the PCM. My long term droped to -15%. I dyno'd it like that! I have still never hooked up Wester's cable to my PC.

I need to disconnect another cable that I use to often. I am thinking about doing it this week.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/PCM%20Stuff/Shelby%20TIS/-15.jpg

Destroyer
04-08-08, 04:52 PM
AJ, for all your stats and figures and equations and so forth on the Northstar you have really come up with nothing. You do a lot of talking about how fast and modifiable a N* is and the end result is always the same. You are beating a dead horse man. Take the wifey out and breathe the fresh air. Move on to greener pastures. Go work on a real Caddy motor like a 472/500. You have skill, you are just using it on the wrong motor. :dummy:

AJxtcman
04-08-08, 05:15 PM
AJ, for all your stats and figures and equations and so forth on the Northstar you have really come up with nothing. You do a lot of talking about how fast and modifiable a N* is and the end result is always the same. You are beating a dead horse man. Take the wifey out and breathe the fresh air. Move on to greener pastures. Go work on a real Caddy motor like a 472/500. You have skill, you are just using it on the wrong motor. :dummy:

Yeah right the 500 with its valve spring OD the same size as a quarter. they float the valves at 3700 rpm's:stirpot:

AJxtcman
04-08-08, 05:23 PM
AJ, for all your stats and figures and equations and so forth on the Northstar you have really come up with nothing. You do a lot of talking about how fast and modifiable a N* is and the end result is always the same. You are beating a dead horse man. Take the wifey out and breathe the fresh air. Move on to greener pastures. Go work on a real Caddy motor like a 472/500. You have skill, you are just using it on the wrong motor. :dummy:

I have several different results. I had a stock German program that ran .8 seconds slower than mine, but you don't remember that. I have actually posted a lot of result, but some how they are not any good. I don't know why, but that is the way it is. Some people insist that the graph mean nothing. Hmmmmmm I don't understand that

Destroyer
04-08-08, 05:58 PM
I have several different results. I had a stock German program that ran .8 seconds slower than mine, but you don't remember that. I have actually posted a lot of result, but some how they are not any good. I don't know why, but that is the way it is. Some people insist that the graph mean nothing. Hmmmmmm I don't understand that
How about timeslips of before and after comparisons instead of graphs and charts?. :bonkers:

AJxtcman
04-08-08, 07:01 PM
How about timeslips of before and after comparisons instead of graphs and charts?. :bonkers:

Why?
That is my point! Why? WTF?
The charts are from the PCM! I can not alter them. They come straight out of the PCM! What is the problem with them?

Don't give me I don't know how they work!
I believe that I took a 2003 DHS that was a 16.1 second car from the factory and it is now a mid to low 14 second car. Yes it is more than just the tune, but it is a package!

Destroyer
04-08-08, 10:15 PM
Why?
That is my point! Why? WTF?
The charts are from the PCM! I can not alter them. They come straight out of the PCM! What is the problem with them?

Don't give me I don't know how they work!
I believe that I took a 2003 DHS that was a 16.1 second car from the factory and it is now a mid to low 14 second car. Yes it is more than just the tune, but it is a package!Doesn't a stock DHS run mid 14's to low 15's stock?. As to why? Why not? The only way to see real results is to test with real cars on real tracks. Period.