: Cadillac vs. BMW at The New York Car Show



Katshot
03-24-08, 08:54 AM
Did the show on Saturday, and one thing I made sure to do was check out the CTS, STS, 3-series, and 5-series. The first thing you notice at the respective booths, is the great difference in foot traffic. The BMW booth was mobbed, while the Cadillac booth was near empty. Fine by me, it gave me more uninterrupted time to gaze at the V2 on the turntable. The car really looked nice to me. The exterior isn't hard on the eyes for sure but it's really not a huge departure from the V1, so I have to believe that if you liked the original, you'd like the new one. IMO, the biggest difference is the interior. The new interior is VERY attractive, and when compared to the original, it shines even more. Unless I'm nuts, the color paint they had on this display car was different from the others I've seen pictures of. This car was a kind of cobalt blue (not sure what Cadillac calls it), and it looked very nice. As for the BMW's..., I really couldn't step back and get a good look at them but from what I DID see, I really am not impressed with the looks of the new M3, and the others are the same as what I've seen before so, there's nothing new there.
I know we've talked a great deal on this forum about these four cars, so I was curious as to how they stacked up against each other ergonomically. At 5' 10", 180lb., and size 10 shoes, I am NOT what I would call a big guy, so I think how I fit into the cars is probably a pretty "middle of the road" feel.
While I think the Cadillac's have much nicer interiors, front seating areas seemed more cramped to me. Harder for egress and ingress. All four were virtually identical in the rear seat, except the BMW's had even less room under the front seat for my feet than the Caddies did. The strange thing I noticed about the CTS and STS was how the dash juts out toward you. You really have to "fit" yourself into the car. It's almost like there's a body-shaped slot between the dash and seat that you slide into. It made the interior feel cramped to me. Plus, the glove box was virtually useless while sitting in the passenger seat. I realistically could only open the door about an inch before it was resting on my legs!
Also, in all four cars, I found that it was very hard getting my feet in and out of the rear seats due to lack of clearance and high sills.
Strangely, I noticed that I had none of these problems in the Buick Lucerne that was in the adjacent display area. I found it surprising that a Buick Lucerne had far more usable space in the passenger compartment than any of the Cadillacs and BMWs I looked at.
Bottom line, I'm not sure I liked any of these four cars. I'd certainly take the Cadillac's over the BMW's on looks alone, and the interiors were more inviting from a purely subjective point of view. But then, I've sat in cars that seemed more comfortable and easier to get in and out of, so I doubt any of these four would be on my "short-list".

The Tony Show
03-24-08, 10:14 AM
Buick Lucerne = Cadillac DTS. Big, pillowy luxury cars always have more room inside than sport sedans.

Eldo1953
03-24-08, 11:02 AM
Yep none of these cars have space like the old FTS now do they!

Katshot
03-24-08, 11:21 AM
Buick Lucerne = Cadillac DTS. Big, pillowy luxury cars always have more room inside than sport sedans.

If you look at the specs, it's VERY hard to make that statement. The STS is closer to the LaCrosse than the Lucerne in some dimensions, and the DTS is "generally" larger than all of them. There's also a HUGE price difference between the Lucerne and the STS. I'm not insinuating that these two ARE direct competitors, they just happened to be close to each other on the floor, and therefore "seemed" a close comparo.

Katshot
03-24-08, 11:22 AM
Yep none of these cars have space like the old FTS now do they!

You got that right! Strange, considering some of these cars these days are getting close to the weight of the old dinosaur (which everyone used to call a big pig).

thebigjimsho
03-24-08, 11:33 AM
You got that right! Strange, considering some of these cars these days are getting close to the weight of the old dinosaur (which everyone used to call a big pig).Pretty simple explanation for that anomaly.

Blackout
03-24-08, 11:51 AM
One thing that pissed me off at the NYC auto show was in the back seat of the CTS, STS, and Lacrosse somebody thought it would be funny or cool to get a knife and slice the whole back seat open. I don't understand why people have to be such morons

The Tony Show
03-24-08, 12:07 PM
If you look at the specs, it's VERY hard to make that statement. The STS is closer to the LaCrosse than the Lucerne in some dimensions, and the DTS is "generally" larger than all of them. There's also a HUGE price difference between the Lucerne and the STS. I'm not insinuating that these two ARE direct competitors, they just happened to be close to each other on the floor, and therefore "seemed" a close comparo.

Ummm.....I know- that's why the STS had less legroom than the Lucerne, because the Lucerne shares a chassis with the DTS, not the STS.

If you said the STS had a lot less legroom than the Lacrosse then there would be something to discuss, but a Lucerne/DTS having a big back seat isn't exactly a revelation.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-24-08, 01:10 PM
So Tony, I'll ask you because you're the Cadillac marketing expert.....Is Cadillac currently trying to go after Mercedes-Benz or BMW as their main competitor?

Katshot
03-24-08, 01:51 PM
Ummm.....I know- that's why the STS had less legroom than the Lucerne, because the Lucerne shares a chassis with the DTS, not the STS.

If you said the STS had a lot less legroom than the Lacrosse then there would be something to discuss, but a Lucerne/DTS having a big back seat isn't exactly a revelation.

What I was getting at was that the DTS is larger in virtually ALL dimensions than the Lucerne but the Lucerne is only bigger than the STS in a couple. This would suggest to me that the Lucerne is NOT "cross the board" a larger car than the STS. And if that is correct, how can you simply say that the Lucerne shouldn't be compared to the STS? Or that's it's unreasonable to.
Face it, these cars don't necessarily have any clear-cut points of comparison. For that reason, it's kind of hard to "directly" compare it to any one competitor. For that reason, if they want to play games with the specs, making it hard to compare models, I say fine, and find ones that are at least "close". In this case, that's not hard since ALL the GM sedans in question here are separated by at most an inch or so. What I've found over the years is that those dimensional specs can be misleading at times. A car that looks bigger on paper, may actually be functionally smaller. Such is the case here. While the Cadillac and Buick seem fairly close in virtually every dimensional spec, they are quite different with respect to egress/ingress and I found that surprising.

Katshot
03-24-08, 01:54 PM
Pretty simple explanation for that anomaly.

What? Because it's a few years older, it follows that it "should be" roomier and lighter per cubic foot of passenger cabin?

The Tony Show
03-24-08, 07:01 PM
STS / Lucerne

Rear Leg Room 38.3 / 41.4 (+3.1)

Shoulder Room 57.4 / 57.0 (+2.6)

3 inches more both leg room and shoulder room in the Lucerne- it's a bigger car. The Lacrosse, on the other hand:

STS / Lacrosse

Rear Leg Room 38.3 / 37.6 (-0.7)

Rear Shoulder room 57.4 / 57.0 (-.04)

The Lacrosse would be a much better size comparison.

thebigjimsho
03-24-08, 09:27 PM
What? Because it's a few years older, it follows that it "should be" roomier and lighter per cubic foot of passenger cabin?No, because when you add a whole bunch of air bags, more bracing and added structure for the ever increasing safety requirements, electronics for stability and traction control, you name it, you add weight. Cars aren't heavier just for the sake of it...

MauiV
03-24-08, 09:38 PM
You got that right! Strange, considering some of these cars these days are getting close to the weight of the old dinosaur (which everyone used to call a big pig).

I saw an article about weight and the Corvette was the only model that currently weighs less than its predecessor 3-4 decades ago. The cars dimensions are smaller but they attribute the fact that the dozens of computers, airbags, sensors, Nav units, 6 disc changers, seat motors, window motors, trunk hydraulics etc etc etc bring the weight WAY up.

I think the Caddy comparison was a current DTS (the monster I am currently driving while mine is still in the shop) and a classic 59 finned Cadi with all the chrome.

Katshot
03-25-08, 09:13 AM
No, because when you add a whole bunch of air bags, more bracing and added structure for the ever increasing safety requirements, electronics for stability and traction control, you name it, you add weight. Cars aren't heavier just for the sake of it...

I don't agree that it's anything to do with "safety requirements" etc. The performance cars seem to be the heavy ones. Look at the weight difference between base models and the performance models. THAT's where you see the cars gain weight. I think it's all the beefed-up chassis and drivetrain components that are causing the bloat.

Katshot
03-25-08, 09:17 AM
STS / Lucerne

Rear Leg Room 38.3 / 41.4 (+3.1)

Shoulder Room 57.4 / 57.0 (+2.6)

3 inches more both leg room and shoulder room in the Lucerne- it's a bigger car. The Lacrosse, on the other hand:

STS / Lacrosse

Rear Leg Room 38.3 / 37.6 (-0.7)

Rear Shoulder room 57.4 / 57.0 (-.04)

The Lacrosse would be a much better size comparison.

Try looking at ALL the dimensions, not just the couple that support your case. That's when you see that some cars are comparatively bigger in some dimension, yet smaller or basically the same in others. So you can't simply say that one car is larger or smaller than the other. You have to specify a certain point of reference to compare. And I think they do that on purpose so it's hard to draw direct comparisons with competitors.

gothicaleigh
03-25-08, 09:28 AM
In what world is a Buick a competitor of Cadillac's?

The Tony Show
03-25-08, 09:40 AM
STS Dimensions (http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/model/po_specification.jsp?model=sts&year=2008)

Lucerne Dimensions (http://www.buick.com/lucerne/specs_dimensions.jsp)

The Lucerne is bigger in every measurable category. I don't see why it's so hard to grasp why a car built on the DTS platform has more room than a car built on the CTS platform.

Blackout
03-25-08, 09:55 AM
In what world is a Buick a competitor of Cadillac's?Nobody is saying that but maybe he is

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1808/smokecopyty1.jpg

Katshot
03-25-08, 10:01 AM
STS Dimensions (http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/model/po_specification.jsp?model=sts&year=2008)

Lucerne Dimensions (http://www.buick.com/lucerne/specs_dimensions.jsp)

The Lucerne is bigger in every measurable category. I don't see why it's so hard to grasp why a car built on the DTS platform has more room than a car built on the CTS platform.

Did you even LOOK at the dimensions you posted?
According to your own info:
Rear head room - STS is larger
Front leg room - STS is larger
Front and Rear shoulder room - STS is larger

Thanks for proving my point.

Blackout
03-25-08, 10:57 AM
Did you even LOOK at the dimensions you posted?
According to your own info:
Rear head room - STS is larger
Front leg room - STS is larger
Front and Rear shoulder room - STS is larger

Thanks for proving my point.

Katshot --> http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/FastSpecV/falconpunch.gif<-- The Tony Show

The Tony Show
03-25-08, 10:58 AM
Who's cherry picking stats now- 0.2 inch? Oooooooh, I got sooooo burned. :rolleyes:

You bitched about the rear set room, which the Lucerne has a ton more of- it's a bigger car all the way around, but since you can't stand being wrong about anything you've switched from talking about rear leg room to front leg room to try and find something you're right about. Here you go:

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/specs_features/veh_specs_MX5.pdf

A Mazda Miata has 43.1" of front leg room. Using your logic, the Miata is a bigger car than the STS. Oh noes!!!111!!

The Tony Show
03-25-08, 11:03 AM
Katshot --> <-- The Tony Show

Wait until you get home to hump your Daddy's leg.

Katshot------>:leghump:<-------Blackout

Katshot
03-25-08, 11:04 AM
In what world is a Buick a competitor of Cadillac's?

If you think for a second that nobody cross-shops Cadillac and Buick, you're nuts. Hell, the old Ultra was arguably a better car than the Deville all the way around. Plus, you have to figure they are generally higher rated in quality. Look at your own post that showed that.

Blackout
03-25-08, 11:31 AM
Wait until you get home to hump your Daddy's leg.

Katshot------>:leghump:<-------Blackout

Dude, your seriously stretching now. The area of the car that he's talking about you just proved that he was right and you were wrong and now your grasping at anything now. It's ok to be wrong every once in awhile

The Tony Show
03-25-08, 11:55 AM
Also, in all four cars, I found that it was very hard getting my feet in and out of the rear seats due to lack of clearance and high sills.
Strangely, I noticed that I had none of these problems in the Buick Lucerne that was in the adjacent display area. I found it surprising that a Buick Lucerne had far more usable space in the passenger compartment than any of the Cadillacs and BMWs I looked at.


STS / Lucerne

Rear Leg Room 38.3 / 41.4 (+3.1)

Shoulder Room 57.4 / 57.0 (+2.6)

3 inches more both leg room and shoulder room in the Lucerne- it's a bigger car. The Lacrosse, on the other hand:

STS / Lacrosse

Rear Leg Room 38.3 / 37.6 (-0.7)

Rear Shoulder room 57.4 / 57.0 (-.04)

The Lacrosse would be a much better size comparison.

Really? Huh....

Koooop
03-25-08, 12:16 PM
Why not just compare the Hyundai Genesis vs. the STS both have 4 doors and an optional V8.

JimmyH
03-25-08, 12:21 PM
Katshot must have really big feet. Does that mean he has a really big thing too? He sure posts like he does.

dkozloski
03-25-08, 12:50 PM
Katshot must have really big feet. Does that mean he has a really big thing too? He sure posts like he does.
How could anybody take seriously a car named after Safeway Store brand dairy products?

Katshot
03-25-08, 01:09 PM
Really? Huh....

Are you even looking at your own posts?
Do you realize that AGAIN, you're proving my point? Do you realize you posted the STS dimensions are the ones on the LEFT?
I'm not "cherry-picking" anything Tony. YOU said the Lucerne was bigger in ALL dimensions, I said it was only bigger is SOME.
Please read your own info and then look at what I said. You'll see that you are proving me right.

Katshot
03-25-08, 01:10 PM
Why not just compare the Hyundai Genesis vs. the STS both have 4 doors and an optional V8.

Actually, I haven't checked but I believe that you are correct.

lusterblade
03-25-08, 02:24 PM
*** 2008 *** 2008 *** 2008 *** 2008
***Cadillac ***Buick ***Cadillac ***Buick
***DTS ***Lucerne ***STS ***LaCrosse
***V8 ***CXL V8 ***V8 Luxury ***CXL
***Current ***Current ***Current ***Current
Interior Dimensions
Headroom (Front) ***39.2 *** 39.5 *** 38.7 *** 39.4
Headroom (Row 2) ***38.6 *** 37.6 *** 37.9 *** 37.2

Hiproom (Front) ***56.9 *** 56.7 *** 54.6 *** 55.3
Hiproom (Row 2) ***56.7 *** 57 *** 55.6 *** 54.6

Legroom (Front) ***42.5 *** 42.5 *** 42.6 *** 42.3
Legroom (Row 2) ***41.6 *** 41 *** 38.3 *** 37.6

Shoulder Room (Front) ***60 *** 58 *** 58.6 *** 57.2
Shoulder Room (Row 2) ***59.2 *** 57 *** 57.4 *** 57

Capacity & Volume
Passenger Volume (EPA) ***113 *** 108 *** 102 *** 100
Passenger Volume (MFR) ***115.3 *** 108 *** 102.9 *** 99.4

Cargo Volume (EPA) ***19 *** 17 *** 14 *** 16
Cargo Volume (MFR) ***18.8 *** 17 *** 13.8 *** 16

Identification
EPA Class ***LARGE ***LARGE ***MIDSIZE ***MIDSIZE

Using all these stats, I would consider Tony the winner because you(Katshot) were pointing out the leg/feet room(or lack of), which Tony addressed. Yes, head room and shoulder room are comparable but I don't believe that was the initial point that you were arguing.

Also if you look at Passenger volume and cargo volume, the DTS and Lucerne are similar, as the STS and Lacrosse are similar.

Note: This is all the data I could find regarding interior dimensions.

Katshot
03-25-08, 02:37 PM
I guess there's multiple people that don't get it.
I said that the rear leg room seemed greater on the Lucerne, and that I found that odd since I kind of thought the Lucerne was at least similar in size to the STS. Tony said the Lucerne was comparable to the DTS and that it was bigger in ALL dimensions than the STS. I said that some dimension were bigger, some were not, which I felt made it unrealistic to claim that one was bigger than the other. He then went on to post data that specifically showed that his statement was untrue. Matter of fact, his data showed that when comparing the dimensions listed on the STS page, exactly HALF the dimensions listed for the STS were in fact LARGER than those listed for the Lucerne.
So how do you figure that he's right, and I'm wrong?

The Tony Show
03-25-08, 02:38 PM
Thank you, Lusterblade. This is typical Katshot- he made a ridiculous comparison between the rear legroom in the STS and Lucerne, and when I pointed out the obvious, he changes the discussion to a completely different topic. He's totally incapable of posting something to the extent of "Whoops- I guess the Lucerne is a bigger car, and the STS is closer in size to Lacrosse." Instead he has to pore over the stats until he finds .02" more in some obscure dimension so he can cling to his Internet victory.

The Lucerne is a bigger car than the STS, which is why it has more legroom in the rear. The end.

The Tony Show
03-25-08, 02:41 PM
Tony said the Lucerne was comparable to the DTS and that it was bigger in ALL dimensions

By ALL I was referring to length, trunk volume, etc... I think everyone reading understood that except you, because you take every single word literally. I'm sure there are cars out there with 3mm more pecker room in the rear right seat than the Lucerne, but that doesn't make them a bigger car.

The Miata data I posted shows that it has more front legroom than the Lucerne- does that make the Lucerne smaller than a Miata? Seriously man- I don't know anyone in their right mind who would argue that a Lucerne and an STS are similarly sized.

JimmyH
03-25-08, 02:43 PM
So why again are we discussing rear legroom? If my passengers want more space, they can ride in their own car.

gothicaleigh
03-25-08, 02:44 PM
If you think for a second that nobody cross-shops Cadillac and Buick, you're nuts.

Retiree: "I like the Cadillac CSTXRL. How much?"
Salesman: "$**,*** with the GMS discount I can give you because you are my favoritist customer ever."
Retiree: "Wow. That is really expensive. I don't think I want to pay that much."
Salesman: "Well come look at the Buick we have over here. It's exactly the same size as a Caddy CSTXRL, but much more affordable."
Retiree: "Great! Do they come in Boring White or Champagne-Mocha-Tan?"
Salesman: Of course! In fact, I believe those are the only color Buicks that we stock. :D "

...if that is what you call "cross-shopping", then you are correct, many people "cross-shop" Buick and Cadillac.

JimmyH
03-25-08, 02:48 PM
Do people cross-dress at Buick?

The Tony Show
03-25-08, 02:48 PM
rofl @ Caleigh

:histeric:

Katshot
03-25-08, 03:30 PM
Here are afew key posts that should shed some light on what's actually been said here:


Buick Lucerne = Cadillac DTS. Big, pillowy luxury cars always have more room inside than sport sedans.




If you look at the specs, it's VERY hard to make that statement. The STS is closer to the LaCrosse than the Lucerne in some dimensions, and the DTS is "generally" larger than all of them. There's also a HUGE price difference between the Lucerne and the STS. I'm not insinuating that these two ARE direct competitors, they just happened to be close to each other on the floor, and therefore "seemed" a close comparo.


STS / Lucerne

Rear Leg Room 38.3 / 41.4 (+3.1)

Shoulder Room 57.4 / 57.0 (+2.6)

3 inches more both leg room and shoulder room in the Lucerne- it's a bigger car.

(notice in the above quote the items in bold italics don't support the following sentence)


STS Dimensions (http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/model/po_specification.jsp?model=sts&year=2008)

Lucerne Dimensions (http://www.buick.com/lucerne/specs_dimensions.jsp)

The Lucerne is bigger in every measurable category. I don't see why it's so hard to grasp why a car built on the DTS platform has more room than a car built on the CTS platform.

(Please take note of the sentence in bold italics above)

With any luck, this may clear up my stance here but in the case that anyone here still feels that I haven't been consistent in this thread, please point out how.

The Tony Show
03-25-08, 03:40 PM
Because you've turned a conversation about rear leg room into something else entirely. I didn't bother to look at every single measurement on the Lucerne because it's a much bigger car than the STS in practically every way. Are there one or two measurements in the STS that are slightly bigger than the Lucerne? Yep. You got me. Congratulations. I omitted the word "practically" in the post you quoted above, and yay you for calling me out on it. I'll print you a certificate proclaiming you the coolest guy on the whole Internet.

None of this changes the fact that your original post whining about the STS having less legroom than a Lucerne was stupid because the Lucerne is a much bigger car than the STS. All you're trying to do now is find some tiny piece of inaccurate info I posted to distract from your own idiocy.

Jesda
03-25-08, 03:51 PM
Lucerne is a town in Switzerland.

http://www.old-picture.com/europe/pictures/Stanstaad-Pilatus.jpg

Very pleasant.

gothicaleigh
03-25-08, 03:54 PM
Lucerne is a town in Switzerland.
Very pleasant.

Looks like a great place to retire to.

The Tony Show
03-25-08, 03:57 PM
Looks like there's a lot more room there than Seville.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/Firebomba/Seville.jpg

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-25-08, 04:07 PM
The sport Lacrosse was invented by Native Americans.

http://www.hardwarelogic.com/articles/blogs/Website_Reviews_and_You/MoreYouKnow.jpg

Koooop
03-25-08, 07:59 PM
Well, I cross shopped at wikipedia

Projected mechanical specs
Hyundai will manufacture three engines for the Genesis, marketing the car internationally with various combinations of the three:

Tau V8: The Tau V8 is Hyundai's first internally engineered 8 cylinder engine and Hyundai's first V8 equipped vehicle offered in North America. The 4.6L engine produces an estimated 375 horsepower (280 kW). Hyundai has reported 0-60 times of less than 6 seconds. [4] [5]

Lambda 3.8L V6: scheduled for availabiltiy in North American, now available in Korean models, producing 306 horsepower (228 kW), (290 horsepower (220 kW) US).

Lambda 3.3L V6: available in the Korean market, producing 266 horsepower (198 kW).
The V8 Genesis is projected to feature a standard 6-speed automatic transmission from ZF Friedrichshafen, in contrast to the Aisin transmission found in the Hyundai Veracruz.

Further V8 specs:

Configuration: Front-engine, rear-wheel drive sports sedan
Track, f/r: 1575 mm / 62.0 inches, 1580 mm / 62.2 inches
Tires: P235/50R18[6]
Estimated horsepower: 375 hp (280 kW)
Estimated torque: Over 300 ftlbf (410 Nm)
Displacement: 4.6 liter
Block material: High pressure die casting aluminum block
Cylinder head material: Aluminum
Valvetrain: Dual Over Head Cam (DOHC)
Valve timing: Continuous variable valve timing
Variable induction system
Fuel delivery: Multi-port fuel injection
Top speed: 130 mph (restricted)
Recommended fuel: Unleaded
Stabilizer bar (front/rear): 26 mm/18 mm
Weight distribution front to rear: 53:47
Brakes: Power-assisted 4-wheel disc
Front brake diameter (mm / in): 320 / 12.6 ventilated disc
Rear brake diameter (mm / in): 314 / 12.4 solid disc
Steering type: Speed-sensing rack-and-pinion
Steering ratio: 14.86

Projected features
Anticipated features include:[1] [2] [4]

adaptive cruise control
adaptive headlamps, turn direction with the car
driver interface, similar to BMW's 'iDrive'
17 speaker Lexicon audio system [7]
USB/iPod auxiliary inputs
navigation system with backup camera
Bluetooth technology
active, variable-rate shock absorbers
push-button start
electronic stability control
fully independent suspension, five-link design front and rear
heated and cooled seats
proximity key
a rear power sunshade
eight airbags, including rear seat side-impact airbags
The Lexicon audio system offers 7.1 channels, 528 watts output, 17 speakers, two 3-way transducer systems, five 2-way transducer systems and digital signal processing that provides equalization among driver and passengers. The Rolls-Royce Phantom is the only other automobile to offer the system. [7]

They had me at 375HP.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-25-08, 08:06 PM
Wow. They share their audio system with Rolls. Talk about exclusivity! Not to mention a lot of credibility for Hyundai.

Jesda
03-26-08, 12:57 AM
In French Canada, Lacrosse is slang for masturbation, therefore the car is called the Buick Allure up north.

dkozloski
03-26-08, 01:12 AM
Lucerne ice cream is popular in Alaska.

eldorado99
03-26-08, 05:12 AM
In French Canada, Lacrosse is slang for masturbation, therefore the car is called the Buick Allure up north.

He was playing lacrosse with his bacon, eh?

The Tony Show
03-26-08, 08:58 AM
^ :histeric:

dkozloski
03-26-08, 09:42 AM
Now settle down children!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-26-08, 12:25 PM
Peter North drives a big white Lacrosse.

JimmyH
03-26-08, 04:14 PM
that's not all he drives...

AMGoff
03-27-08, 04:25 PM
Well... even though katshot was banned for whatever reason AND I'm a day late and a dollar short to this party... I'm slightly confused....

How is it so hard to understand that the Buick Lucerne IS for all intent and purpose - a Cadillac DTS in granny-panties? They're both built on the same FWD platform/chassis and they both share a considerable amount of options... so with the two exceptions of V6 availability in the Buick and different sheet metal - they're the same damn car.

So there's no point in even comparing two cars when they're basically the same model!

I guess I'm just having a hard time figuring out where the confusion was in all of this... Or was it only a case of - "Hey, that's something I didn't know... so it can't be true and I'll argue the point to my death?"

FWIW (and it's not worth much) - katshot, if you're still reading this, you really did lose the argument before you even started.

RightTurn
03-28-08, 11:44 PM
So why again are we discussing rear legroom? If my passengers want more space, they can ride in their own car.

:rofl: I lurve Jimmy.

RightTurn
03-28-08, 11:46 PM
... he has to pore over the stats until he finds .02" more in some obscure dimension so he can cling to his Internet victory.


:lol: I lurve TTS.