Hey Guys,

New to the site, tons of useful information here. My wife and I are looking at getting rid of her '05 Mazda 3 in the summer as it is coming up off of warranty. We've narrowed down our choices to the CTS AWD w/ FE2 susp setup or the Infiniti M35x. Obviously, opinions here may be a little biased but could any of you provide any feedback on perhaps why the CTS would be a better choice for us?

Thanks in advance.

Let me be honest, I hate American cars. I am exclusively Jap, and the CTS is a German car. After test drive, I was impressed. Kicked the 335's ass!

and the CTS is a German car.

What? Did I miss something here?:histeric:

What? Did I miss something here?:histeric:
I guess we all did. GM= Ger-Man :highfive:

I was also interested in the M35 when I was shopping for the CTS. Both are great cars. A strong driving factor for selecting the CTS in favor of the M35 was its much better gas mileage and the fact that it uses regular versus premium. Good luck with your decision.

Keep buying foreign cars & trucks and you too will be out of a job. The Cadillac CTS is manufactured & assembled in the USA but you cant say that for any foreign owned products. GM manufactures 80% of there products here in the USA but foreign owned vehicles are only 30% manufactured here the rest is made overseas. GM employees & supports over 1 million people and Toyota just about 38000 are employed and supported in the USA. Supported people means they are vender's & business that do business with a company.

Let me be honest, I hate American cars. I am exclusively Jap, and the CTS is a German car. After test drive, I was impressed. Kicked the 335's ass!


LOL! WRONG!

The CTS was tested in Germany but designed by Americans.

I'm not overly concerned about my job, as I live in Canada where the auto industry doesn't affect me. As long as you folks keep driving oil burning vehicles, my financial future is very secure. I'm not going to buy a vehicle simply based on where it's made. The new CTS is the first sign that american auto manufacturers have clued in that if you want to be competitive on a global market, your PRODUCT needs to be at or above par with the rest of the offerings from around the world, both Japenese and European. I refuse to make concessions on a 50 or 60 thousand dollar vehicle simply to support a completely mismanaged coorporation and an archaic and obsolete union of its workers. Thanks for your input though. The car, nothing else will impact my decision.

I'm not overly concerned about my job, as I live in Canada where the auto industry doesn't affect me. As long as you folks keep driving oil burning vehicles, my financial future is very secure. I'm not going to buy a vehicle simply based on where it's made. The new CTS is the first sign that american auto manufacturers have clued in that if you want to be competitive on a global market, your PRODUCT needs to be at or above par with the rest of the offerings from around the world, both Japenese and European. I refuse to make concessions on a 50 or 60 thousand dollar vehicle simply to support a completely mismanaged coorporation and an archaic and obsolete union of its workers. Thanks for your input though. The car, nothing else will impact my decision.

Most Americans, like myself, like to support our own country. I get paid in US dollars, so I try to buy US products.

"I'm not overly concerned about my job, as I live in Canada where the auto industry doesn't affect me. "

Really?

You are that ignorant of your own country not to know of the American Assembly plants located in Canada, supplying Canadians with jobs and contributing to the Canadian Economy?
Oh well, Since I visit Canada often I can assure you that your attitude is not unique.

In any event, I tested many cars against the CTS.
But not the M.
The M "should" be a better car because feature for feature it is a more expensive car. Comparably equipped the CTS was 43K and the M was 53K.
Of course in Canada, those numbers will be a lot bigger but the ratio should hold........


Styling is in the eye of the beholder.
IMO the CTS wins this one easily.
Exterior - The M looks like every other Japanese car on the planet.
Interior - The M is really nice.

The G is more or less in the same price neighborhood and the CTS is far superior.

What Southern said.

I'm not overly concerned about my job, as I live in Canada where the auto industry doesn't affect me. As long as you folks keep driving oil burning vehicles, my financial future is very secure. I'm not going to buy a vehicle simply based on where it's made. The new CTS is the first sign that american auto manufacturers have clued in that if you want to be competitive on a global market, your PRODUCT needs to be at or above par with the rest of the offerings from around the world, both Japenese and European. I refuse to make concessions on a 50 or 60 thousand dollar vehicle simply to support a completely mismanaged coorporation and an archaic and obsolete union of its workers. Thanks for your input though. The car, nothing else will impact my decision.

Wow - I can't tell you how many times I've heard Canadians talk about how arrogant Americans are. You just made the most arrogant of us sound meek.

Must be easy to throw stones at the American automobile industry sitting in the cheap seats. How many Canadian car companies are there competing now?

If the car itself is the only decision point, then why waste your time on a forum? Go drive them both and pick the one you like. Obviously nothing anyone says on here is going to change your mind given your superior Canadian intellect.

I personally test drove a C-Class, 3-Series, G35x (since I need AWD), and Acura TL and TL Type-S. I ended up buying one of the more expensive options I test drove...my CTS. I don't know how they are optioned up, but I would say my key things in the CTS over an Infinity (G or M) are probably the much bigger hard drive, pop up Nav, ultraview sunroof, and acceleration (G35x felt too jerky and the salesman told me it was designed that way for 'safety'). However, do take both for a spin (the way you would option them up...drivetrain-wise at least) and then see if one completely blows out the other in your book. Also, consider if any of the options I mentioned for example even appeal to you, if they do, maybe a CTS is the way to go.

CTS wins in many respects . Jaguar's XF also cool but CTS is like 4 door muscle car and the best modern Cadillac . Totally stunning car .

I'd get the CTS. The M35 AWD equiped the same as the fully loaded CTS AWD is about $7,000 more ($53,000 versus $46,000), only has about 275 hp and only gets 22 mpg, highway, on premium gas. The CTS DI has 304 hp and gets 26 mpg on regular. I think the CTS looks a lot better. The Infiniti does have a bigger back seat and larger trunk.

My apologies for not being clear with my intentions...

I meant in my first impressions with the car, it felt distinctly German in fit, finish, ride quality, and power delivery

It just didn't FEEL like any American car I've ever driven. Sorry or the confusion.

OK, Ford, Chrysler, and GM are struggling in the competive global arena. But the last time I checked Canada didn't even have a single Automobile manufacturer. Although they do operate several assembly plants for the inept american automobile companies.

I've bought American or Joint ventured American Japanese vehicles for several years and support USA. Must say that my best experience was with foreign vehicles and not the joint ventures. Hope it was not the American influence. But for any American car fans to say that American quality has not lagged is simply putting their heads in the sand. The CTS is a big improvement. Nice to see America move to the forefront in something besides the big truck and suv market. Would like to see more from
America in all the price ranges. I think you will like both vehicles. The CTS is unique in that there are not many on the road. It turns the driver on like the commercial says. You won't go wrong with the CTS

"But for any American car fans to say that American quality has not lagged is simply putting their heads in the sand."

agreed.

But for any Japanese car fan to say that quality has not slipped in recent years is simply putting their heads in the sand. Toyota engine sludge, Honda transmissions, etc etc. are all detailed at CR.




Lets compare recalls using the Gen1 CTS.
Model 2003-04-05-06

CTS 2-3-1-1
TL 2-1-2-2
Accord 8-9-10-5
Camry 1-2-1-1
3 Series 9-4-4-1
E class 3-4-2-?



I would have to say that the CTS has shown excellent results.
Even such a mundane car, and Acciord/Civc Camry/Corolla competition as the Chevy Malibu....
Malibu 2-3-?-2


No. Its way past time to defend detroit in the 80s, and to a lesser degree in the 90s.
Mismanagement. Hiring non-car guys to head up auto companies....ugh!
Out of control Unions. $100k Janitors. Documented. Paid for not working. complete and utter Bull.
Both took their toll.

But it is also time to yell BS! when American cars are denigrated in 2008.


Personal?
2003 Nissan Murano. $29+K in 2003.
6 failures in the first 6 months. SIX!
Vaunted Japanese workmanship. Muranos are still produced only in Japan.
They forgot to tighten the steering racks for God's sake!
And how did they do in recalls?
Murano 5-3-5-3 ...........pretty bad........
Don't tell me about Japanaese superior workmanship.


America is back.
And they are being led by the CTS and the Malibu.
Check out some of the new Saturns too. Or Buick.
Are they perfect? No.
Are they equal to, or better than their competition?

A resounding, Hell Yes!

First off, thanks for all the input again. Drove both again today, CTS is a better car for less money. It lacks a few options the M has, but most of those are rear seat options which are of no concern to me.

And to clarify, I'm not trying to be an "arrogant Canadian", I simply refuse to show brand loyalty if the product is not there in quality. The CTS is, by leaps and bounds. But my three transmission in 100,000 mile avalanche certainly wasn't. I should clarify that I live in Alberta not Ontario, so I am quite sure the auto industry has no impact on my particular future. I'm not trying to say Canadian products are any better, as we are saddled with the same management issues and bloated union salaries that the US contends with. I am simply saying that the European and Japanese auto makers have, until now, blown American offerings in this segment out of the water. The CTS is a refreshing change and I hope it continues to transcend across the board. I am not looking to insult anyone, I simply refuse to spend my money unless it is on the absolute best option for quality and value. In this case, I believe that is shown to be the CTS.

As far as why come to the forum? First off every Cadillac salesman I've talked has talked bad about their competition right out of the gate. Had I not done any research on the forums from real owners, I would have been immediately been turned off and not bothered looking further. I think forums are one of the best resources a potential buyer can use. I used in purchasing my Harley V-ROD (again, hands down the best offering in the segment) and I am using it in my purchasing of the car.

It just didn't FEEL like any American car I've ever driven. Sorry or the confusion.

I get what youre trying to say but I think most people would agree that the CTS has a distinct American feel when compared to BMW or Lexus.

As for the Canadian/American war, American quality has slipped in the past but look at anything from about 2003 on and ull see that American cars have made huge strides and the quality gap is very very small now. As for the vehicles with Bob Lutz leading the charge, GM is finally getting with it indeed introducing models like the Malibu which is a far more important car than the CTS for the company as a whole. Its cars like the Malibu that will turn GM around, its cars like the CTS that will give it some prestige. As for Japanese cars, personally I despise Japanese cars, all you here about is how they are this and that and never break and how wonderful they are and yet everybody who buys one is helping put somebody in Michigan, Kansas, Kentucky etc out of a job, the whole time while gloating and basking in an aura of self dillusion about how much smarter they are than "the brand loyal idiots". My friend no car that carries a foreign badge is American no matter where the parts came from or where it was assembled because when its sold and the profits are in, its money out of Americans hands and into Japanese ones instead. Im no fool and im not saying that when buying an expensive car one should buy the inferior what im saying is when they are close in every way, one should give the nod to the American car. Cadillac is the greatest American pedigree and as such deserves respect it doesnt get, all because some diluded $hitheads really like there fancy nissan or toyota dressed up to play nice. Im tired of hereing it compared to Infinitis, Acura etc those brands are beneath it in my book, its ment to take aim at the Germans which it does very well.

I get what youre trying to say but I think most people would agree that the CTS has a distinct American feel when compared to BMW or Lexus.

As for the Canadian/American war, American quality has slipped in the past but look at anything from about 2003 on and ull see that American cars have made huge strides and the quality gap is very very small now. As for the vehicles with Bob Lutz leading the charge, GM is finally getting with it indeed introducing models like the Malibu which is a far more important car than the CTS for the company as a whole. Its cars like the Malibu that will turn GM around, its cars like the CTS that will give it some prestige. As for Japanese cars, personally I despise Japanese cars, all you here about is how they are this and that and never break and how wonderful they are and yet everybody who buys one is helping put somebody in Michigan, Kansas, Kentucky etc out of a job, the whole time while gloating and basking in an aura of self dillusion about how much smarter they are than "the brand loyal idiots". My friend no car that carries a foreign badge is American no matter where the parts came from or where it was assembled because when its sold and the profits are in, its money out of Americans hands and into Japanese ones instead. Im no fool and im not saying that when buying an expensive car one should buy the inferior what im saying is when they are close in every way, one should give the nod to the American car. Cadillac is the greatest American pedigree and as such deserves respect it doesnt get, all because some diluded $hitheads really like there fancy nissan or toyota dressed up to play nice. Im tired of hereing it compared to Infinitis, Acura etc those brands are beneath it in my book, its ment to take aim at the Germans which it does very well.

Great response, which I agree with 100%. :thumbsup: :usflag:

But my three transmission in 100,000 mile avalanche certainly wasn't.

I wouldn't blame the vehicle there. Transmissions was not an issue them.
In defense of Chevy, I own a Av with a 100k on it and used it to plow snow since day one. The only thing that vehicle ever needed was fluid changes, tires and brakes.

I'm not sure who else to blame but the vehicle. Not saying it's the norm... but an oil pump (never seen an oil pump go before), three transmissions and an emmissions system so plugged it sent the vehicle into limp mode does not bode well for the reputation of the vehicle. That being said, my father and I have only ever owned Domestic Trucks, they have been and continue to be the best in the segment. As to saying a dressed up toyota, aka Lexus is an inferior brand is just plain ignorant. I don't think anyone can take anything at all away from Lexus and their reputation of fine luxury offerings and the reliability of them. Imports last longer mechanically historically, that is just plain fact. I hope that the domestics are learning and that they get a handle on it, I just don't think they are quite there yet.

I bought a Black 2007 M35x with premium package in March of last year. I owned it for a few months then sold it at a loss...I absolutely grew to dislike it a lot.
Seats were great.
Seat heaters weak.
Throttle tip-in is very abrupt- never could modulate acceleration the way I wanted.
Traction in snow was fine.
Power is just OK.
Suspension was the real let down. Too floaty.
The bottom line is it had no personality, no soul.
Also, the MPG was abysmal...

Urban...perhaps you should reread the end of my statement and really comprehend what somebody is saying before they use derogatory terms like ignorant. Im not taking anything away from Lexus sure they make a great car, one that is as exciting as watching paint dry but a great car nonetheless. I was saying that Infiniti and Acura are inferior brands seeing as they have no history. Granted Lexus has no history either but Lexus is a true competitor in the world of MB, BMW. Sure you can wave all the statistics in my face about how they last longer and youve owned a hundred and youre sisters friend drives one etc but the fact is you arent going to sway me. The truth is Japanese cars are appliances. They are an affront to automotive history in my book. Cars made purely to last and not for enjoyment are no better than washing machines. Maybe youre car is an appliance to you, just something to get you from point A to B but not me, no sir, my car is much more than that to me, its a reflection of me. As a reflection it says something about me or the driver do you really want youre Lexus, Infiniti or Acura telling the world "Its a toupee, its not a real rolex, I just picked up my Viagra or im a middleaged douche bag with no sense of adventure at all except for what the Japanese brochure tells me I should have", thats what owning a Japanese car means to me. Enjoy youre ultra reliable Japanese car just know im not the only one who feels that way.

I completely agree with you that a car should make the hairs on your arms stand up on a daily basis, especially when you start getting into the price point that we're talking about here. You're right in that the germans have been the ones to catch on that one. Before my wife and I decided on the CTS (we're 27 by the way so no where near middle age) we drove the GS350 and sure it is nice and the fit and finish is second to none, but it just doesn't have the flare that we are looking for. The infiniti (going back to the original topic of this thread) has some cool gadgets and such which are nice, but is a little too luxury and not quite enough luxury sport. The A6 is too far out of range and the new XF from Jag is too new to bank 60k on. The CTS is the right choice in this instance, however my previous point stands in that we've decided to buy it because it is the best car for the money, and has nothing to do with coming from a domestic company that in my opinion has spent too long offering sub standard product to such loyal customers such as yourself. Such determined consumers deserve to be rewarded and not forced to make concessions against a superior competition. Hopefully the new CTS is just the start of many strides in the right direction. I sincerely hope that my 07 Escalade EXT does not share the same pathetic track record that my 03 avy did.

Cheers.

Thats great Urban but you seem to have missed something or perhaps I didnt put it very well. Its wonderful that you were able to buy the Cadillac because it was the right decision for you etc. Its wonderful that people are able to do that now as opposed to just a few years ago when one had to be far more advanced in years to consider a Cadillac. What im saying is that yes ,Cadillac has languished in the dark for some time now, yes Cadillac has fallen by the wayside in some respects but one can never count it out. Like I said before Cadillac is the premiere American automotive icon and as such deserves a little respect over a company like Infiniti. Now im not really directing this towards you, but Americans need to understand the inherint value in buying something that is uniquely American its not a BMW nor is it some Lexus imitation of a BMW its a Cadillac. Now im not trying to get preachy about buy American and so forth and so on, all Im saying is when things are close and the cars are similar, when youre holding the keys to both in the left and the right hand, one should give the nod to the American car. Im also not trying to say the Cadillac brand is somehow amazing because I agree it needs work. I despise Japanese cars because they are just part of a takeover of an industry we helped create. I just find it sad that so many people especially my generation somehow feel that Japanese cars are just better and are staunch advocates of their so called superiority. Its sad to see Americans claiming there Nissan Titan is American, or there Lexus has nothing to do with Toyota. Its a sad thing to see so many people flocking to Japanese cars just because like my waching machine, it doesnt break. Hopefully the CTS and Malibu are the first steps in correcting this idea so many people hold and turn the industry around.