: Saab & Volvo....thoughts? Opinions?



I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-20-08, 04:53 PM
I've always liked European cars, especially the German ones, but I've never really paid attention to the Swedish offerings until real recently. Still though, I know nothing about them and I'm pretty interested.

They seem like they're luxurious enough. Not to the level of Caddy or BMW/M-B or Lexus/Infiniti, but still nice enough. I wonder why they've never sold real well or have never gotten the respect the German/English imports have gotten?

I know the Swedes love their turbo I-4's. Up until the last 5-10 years, all the engines offered in most Volvos and Saabs were I-4's, whether or not they were turbocharged.

What's the stigma behind each of the brands? Saabs always seemed Yuppie to me, and the Volvos always seemed like a Doctor's car.

What do you guys generally prefer? Saab? Volvo?
As for me, I'm not sure yet, this is a whole new learning experience for me.

I do like the 2000+ 9-5's though, and the late '90s 960s.

gary88
03-20-08, 05:28 PM
Nice cars and both are pleasing to the eye, but I just don't care for either really. When I think of Volvo, I picture nothing but soccer moms.

caddycruiser
03-20-08, 05:32 PM
I'm in the same boat as far as really liking a lot of them...but also "wondering".

Volvo, for so long, had the box thing going on and seemed very stately/doctor's car (hit that right on the head) to me, and always with their odd I-5 engines which continue today. Saabs seem more emotional and eccentric (well, because they are), and quality that was never overwhelming (nothing low, but not to the typical Euro level of solidity and finishing), with their family of I-4 turbos and also V6 turbos. They probably also have the worst resale, as far as a Euro mark...again, which plays with the quality image. Or, more so, just the lack of sales ever and always big discounts when new.

I still wonder a lot about their reliability/quality particularly in the mid to late 90's and into the first of the 00's. Several that are attractive to me (again, I too have a thing for the '99+ Saab 9-5) but also that worry me from the problem/repair aspect with age. Admittedly, all based on online reviews, and with age anything has problems...some just have more. Also there's Volvo...which has had a couple of stinkers, but mostly very hearty and durable, I thought.

Know another interesting one? The late 90's Volvo S90/V90 which was sharp-edged boxy BUT also with an I-6 and RWD. Peculiar, it seemed, for Volvo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0V7VWISxHE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li1XIjz28Ik

I wanted to look at a S90 not long ago, just out of curiosity, but wondered what they were really like...and still would consider a Saab 9-5 if I knew more about the quality/reliability in a positive sense. That Saab image of not as well finished/rattly and with problems has stuck in my mind, though I don't know from where.

orconn
03-20-08, 05:38 PM
I am surprised that you are not more aware of the Swedes. Saabs have always been an either love'em or hate'em knid of car and along with Volvo's kind of the Bergenstocks of the car world. In order to get any performance out of either brand one had and has to go with a Turbo version which also meant going with a smaller displacement and dealing with "turbo lag" especially in city and suburban driving ....... not very useful for a lot of us, especially considering the premium price tag. Until recently both marks cars were competitive with the German's regular mundane models, i.e. they were pretty slow. They have always been well crafted and Volvos had arguably the most comfortable seats aof any car made. The reason I have never owned either of these brands, despite many admirable qualities (safety engineering being one) I have never been able to tolerate the lack of feel in the steering and once I'd gone out and driven the competition the lack of initial power for stop and go traffic. As far as being "yuppie" cars, yeah I guess, but nothing like, at least on either coast, BMW (the ultimate yuppie-mobile) or Mercedes and to a lesser degree Audi. The Swedes occupy a place in the market and social scheme that used to be cahatracterised by Oldsmobile ..... particularly in the Mid-west and mid level civil servants everywhere. "I got a nice car, but it's not flashy and after a year or two no body will be jealous!

caddycruiser
03-20-08, 05:51 PM
They have always been well crafted and Volvos had arguably the most comfortable seats aof any car made.

YES. The biggest thing I forgot, and a reason I still must at least try out a Volvo further some day...at the auto shows, etc. they ALWAYS have the best seats ever. The headrests alone (i.e. they're actually headRESTS with support in a natural position) draw me in and make me want to stay. You don't know how many times I've thought of a Fleetwood with Volvo front buckets...

As for Saab, it's still...just...something. Quirky, and the quality issue. Not that it's lacking, but not that it's WOW either. But, again, all largely based on reading reviews.

Night Wolf
03-20-08, 06:48 PM
Well my friend that used to have an '01 Jetta 1.8T now has a '99 Saab 9-5

When I went to NY I rode in the car alot, drove it a few times too. It was a turbo4cyl.... I reallyed liked it, well it sorta grew on me, but it was pretty much a luxury car, leather heated seats, all power options etc... had the trip computer/message center thing. Of course it was a 5spd, had a ncie transmission and was pleasing to drive. It was pretty darn roomy and big inside for the overall size of the car (tho it isn't really a small car)

If I wanted a normal car with nice features but something not really bland but still quite fun to drive, I'd definitly put it on my list.

Jesda
03-20-08, 07:10 PM
I have tremendous affection for Swedish cars. The 9-3 has always been a favorite of mine, as well as the S80.

Destroyer
03-20-08, 07:38 PM
I liked the old 900 Turbo convertibles of the 80's. Cool cars. There a few rebadged WRX Subarus now being sold as Saabs. I dont think Saab or Volvo are really the same company they used to be.

Sandy
03-20-08, 08:02 PM
The lesser models of both are not too nice. Certainly not LUXURY level. I am talking of the Saab 0.3 and the Volvo S40 and S60 (which looks like an old Ford.

HOWEVER the Saab 9.5 AERO is a terrific car and luxury all the way, and under $42,500.

But THE real star, offering more than any Cadyu or Lincoln is the fasntastic Volvo S80, which can be had with 4WD and a big V-8 ! Twin DVD/Television in both rear headrests, a refriderated glove box, ALL leather interior (not just seats, but door panels too, super duper wood all over the place, heated steering wheel, with power tilt & telecope wheel, heted rear seats as well as trhe fronts.

Take a look. Go to http://www.volvousa.com
go to build my own, go to S80 snd beging. Read all those goodies! If you buy it all, it's 62,300.00. MSRLP.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-20-08, 08:38 PM
The thing I love most about the 9-5 is the dashboard and speedometer design. I love how they've got that big flank of wood that covers up about 1/2 the dashboard, and how the numbers on the speedometer get closer together once the numbers pass 100. I dunno why, but that always appealed to me.

Let's see if I can find a good picture...
http://photos2.ebizautos.com/1120/2651948_23.jpg

2004ctsv
03-20-08, 09:34 PM
Both of my girls drive Saab 9-3, 2003 and 2008,
The cars are solid and safe, get great gas mileage on the highway and lots of low end torque for city driving. The 08 has the high boost 2L and is definitely quicker than the 03.

I bought them because of value. We got the 08 for $7K under MSRP of around $31K after Christmas. My oldest daughter had an 03 G35 and didn't like the car. I took the G35 (not bad for a girl's car) and gave her the new Saab - fire engine red - that she loves.

My younger daughter drives the 03 9-3 back and forth between Pittsburgh and Happy Valley. It's good in the snow and I feel better about the safety of the car.

My older daughter had the 03 a couple years ago and t-boned a Prius at an intersection where she lives in NVa. The Prius was totalled and the driver rattled pretty good but nothing hurt. The Saab was repaired for a couple grand and is back on the road.

If you like a quick little car and can stand a little turbo-lag, the 9-3 is a great value. The brakes could be a little firmer but are adequate for most driving conditions.

One other thing I like about the cars - they hold 7 quarts of Mobil1 so the recommended oil change interval is 16,000 miles. And you get to the filter from the top of the engine. A smart design feature.

I hope this helps.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-20-08, 09:40 PM
Well I'm not in the market, I'm just curious about the Swedes.

I was watching Clarkson review the 9-5, and overall he liked the car, and he said it's midrange passing power is like nothing he's ever felt before. It's actually quicker in the 40-70 mph run than a 911 Turbo!
YoIWox3XU9g


_n3TKf6N4jU&feature=related

Definitely not slow.

MauiV
03-20-08, 09:58 PM
I like the PRE-GM Saabs. The newer ones are just not Saabs to me, they ruined the lines IMO. Saabs are very safe and designed to take a Moose head-on.

I test drove a Volvo S60 R that I really liked and was considering one when I found the V but that wasnt even a contest in the end.

caddycruiser
03-20-08, 11:01 PM
I like the PRE-GM Saabs. The newer ones are just not Saabs to me, they ruined the lines IMO. Saabs are very safe and designed to take a Moose head-on.

I test drove a Volvo S60 R that I really liked and was considering one when I found the V but that wasnt even a contest in the end.

Hah, and I'm the exact opposite:rolleyes:

Actually, I understand the supreme quirkiness that made the "original" Saabs, Saabs, but I like the lines, the powertrains, the quality and feature improvements, etc. of the cars post GM most. Don't know why, I just do. Maybe it's because I'm such a big fan of most current GM vehicles and like the tangible integration of some of those traits in the cars...and really the looks.

Definitely lost some of the original character, especially in regards to hatchbacks, but all in the name of making them more successful in America...though, honestly, before and after they've still never sold well.

Doesn't matter, I'll still gladly take this:

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/1/28/238/151/4008427779.238151746.IM1.05.565x421_A.562x421.jpg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/2/27/239/830/6325117795.239830459.IM1.02.565x421_A.562x421.jpg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/2/27/239/830/6325117796.239830459.IM1.03.565x421_A.562x421.jpg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/1/28/238/151/4008427780.238151746.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jp g
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/1/28/238/151/4008427778.238151746.IM1.02.565x421_A.562x421.jpg

^^My favorite of all, and in color and trim too...I see several post '06 revision 9-5's when in school in PA, and just love the look. SO much improved/cool over even the '99-05 which is more classic Saab, IMHO.

As said before, Saab resales stink...so something just like the above is a definite contender in the eventual new car time.

Also a big fan of these, again, particularly after the recent '08 refresh:

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/3/6/238/160/6396028273.238160360.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.565x378.jp g
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/3/6/238/160/6396028282.238160360.IM1.10.565x421_A.565x378.jpg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/3/6/238/160/6396028283.238160360.IM1.11.565x421_A.565x378.jpg

Night Wolf
03-21-08, 04:18 AM
Well I'm not in the market, I'm just curious about the Swedes.

I was watching Clarkson review the 9-5, and overall he liked the car, and he said it's midrange passing power is like nothing he's ever felt before. It's actually quicker in the 40-70 mph run than a 911 Turbo!
YoIWox3XU9g


_n3TKf6N4jU&feature=related

Definitely not slow.

Thats really similar to my friends.

I was gonna mention the night panel... pretty neat, it turns off all interior lights, and all gauges (actually turns them off not just the lights) excpet the speedo, but it turns off the lights above 90mph, so all you have lit up inside when you push night panel is a dimmed version of the speedo 0-90.... and I think maybe the radio, I don't remember.

Neat car tho.

caddycruiser
03-21-08, 09:46 AM
Thats really similar to my friends.

I was gonna mention the night panel... pretty neat, it turns off all interior lights, and all gauges (actually turns them off not just the lights) excpet the speedo, but it turns off the lights above 90mph, so all you have lit up inside when you push night panel is a dimmed version of the speedo 0-90.... and I think maybe the radio, I don't remember.

Neat car tho.

Yes...an interesting Saab-only feature. Don't know when I'd ever use it, but it serves some purpose, for sure.

Florian
03-21-08, 01:15 PM
this is the only Saab Id consider: Saab Sonnet.....bad ass V4, cool looking...collectible


F

MauiV
03-21-08, 01:19 PM
Hah, and I'm the exact opposite:rolleyes:

Actually, I understand the supreme quirkiness that made the "original" Saabs, Saabs, but I like the lines, the powertrains, the quality and feature improvements, etc. of the cars post GM most. Don't know why, I just do. Maybe it's because I'm such a big fan of most current GM vehicles and like the tangible integration of some of those traits in the cars...and really the looks.

Definitely lost some of the original character, especially in regards to hatchbacks, but all in the name of making them more successful in America...though, honestly, before and after they've still never sold well.

Doesn't matter, I'll still gladly take this:

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/1/28/238/151/4008427779.238151746.IM1.05.565x421_A.562x421.jpg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/2/27/239/830/6325117795.239830459.IM1.02.565x421_A.562x421.jpg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/2/27/239/830/6325117796.239830459.IM1.03.565x421_A.562x421.jpg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/1/28/238/151/4008427780.238151746.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jp g
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/1/28/238/151/4008427778.238151746.IM1.02.565x421_A.562x421.jpg

^^My favorite of all, and in color and trim too...I see several post '06 revision 9-5's when in school in PA, and just love the look. SO much improved/cool over even the '99-05 which is more classic Saab, IMHO.

As said before, Saab resales stink...so something just like the above is a definite contender in the eventual new car time.

Also a big fan of these, again, particularly after the recent '08 refresh:

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/3/6/238/160/6396028273.238160360.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.565x378.jp g
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/3/6/238/160/6396028282.238160360.IM1.10.565x421_A.565x378.jpg
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/3/6/238/160/6396028283.238160360.IM1.11.565x421_A.565x378.jpg


Id own a minivan before Id own a wagon and Ill NEVER own a minivan.

caddycruiser
03-21-08, 01:42 PM
Id own a minivan before Id own a wagon and Ill NEVER own a minivan.

Well, that's you:thumbsup:

They're extremely useful and classy, especially when based on a Euro sedan like these. And much more efficient and driver friendly than a typical 5-seater SUV that's like driving a truck. Can have your cake and eat it too, with a fantastic luxury sedan...but then in back an open hatch/box area to haul more stuff.

Still a stigma here, however, just like hatches. Sad, because people miss out on a LOT of great vehicles because of a weird image. Even my mother, who drove a Suburban for 3 years, still loathes even the word wagon but is speechless when we try to say "well, what do you think your Suburban was?"

Or just a case of opinions are like $%^holes and everyone has one, which is great...otherwise we'd all be driving medium blue Camry's;)

After finally COMPLETELY swearing off trucks, mid or big SUV's, BOF, etc. ever again, my wagon passion has really been amped up.

MauiV
03-21-08, 01:48 PM
Someone buys purple Neons too.

Night Wolf
03-21-08, 02:00 PM
Yes...an interesting Saab-only feature. Don't know when I'd ever use it, but it serves some purpose, for sure.

Well, I drove that car at night, so I tried it both on and off.... personally I like having the gauges lit up, and I was driving in more or less town/city.... but if it was an extended highway trip with the cruise set, then yeah, it would defintily come in handy. I already really dim, if not turn off the interior lights in the car on highway trips at night, easier on the eyes and allows you to see better IMO.

One thing that bothered me about the Saab was the overal boring gauges.... yeah it has the tach and temp gauge (IIRC the '99 9-5 didn't have a boost gauge) but they are very plain, nor do they look like anything spectacular at night.... after driving it a bit it really didn't bother me, like I said it was my friends car and before that he had a '99 Jetta 1.8T.... and still to this day I think those gauges were flat out awesome, the really nice blue then red needles, plus they seemed more functional. I guess that'd be my only gripe.... which really in the world of things isn't all that bad. Driving that Jetta, everything was very crammped inside, steering wheel was too close to you body, shifter was right at your side etc... the Saab was laid out like a normal car.... only problem for me driving it, was I was so used to driving my Isuzu, which has longer throws on the shifter, so everytime I'd shift to pretty much any gear it would slam.... felt bad and I tried to get used to it, it was short throw for what it is.

jey
03-21-08, 02:36 PM
YES. The biggest thing I forgot, and a reason I still must at least try out a Volvo further some day...at the auto shows, etc. they ALWAYS have the best seats ever. The headrests alone (i.e. they're actually headRESTS with support in a natural position) draw me in and make me want to stay. You don't know how many times I've thought of a Fleetwood with Volvo front buckets...

As for Saab, it's still...just...something. Quirky, and the quality issue. Not that it's lacking, but not that it's WOW either. But, again, all largely based on reading reviews.

Actually, at the auto show this year, the Saab 9-5 we sat in had the best seats in the house - right up there with our Fleetwood. We weren't a fan of the perforated stuff that came on even the S-class nowadays. My wife loved the 9-5 so much it's now her favourite car. It's a fun car to drive too - took one around an AutoX course and for being a heavy FWD car it's quite neutral and powerful.



I liked the old 900 Turbo convertibles of the 80's. Cool cars. There a few rebadged WRX Subarus now being sold as Saabs. I dont think Saab or Volvo are really the same company they used to be.

The Saab 9-2 is a rebadged Subaru Impreza. (Saabaru) When GM sold their stake of Subaru that ended (2006).

Neither company is what they used to be. Volvo is now owned by Ford, Saab by GM. Both have vehicles that seem to carry over a lot of the engineering that made them unique, and both also have some corporate junk. (A rebadged Trailblazer just doesn't work well as a Saab. At least the Duratec didn't find its way into any Volvo I don't think...)

AMGoff
03-21-08, 03:10 PM
The Swedes build "premium" cars... plain and simple. Volvo tries every now and then to pass something off as a luxury car like the S80. Granted, it's a nice car and it has a plethora of luxurious amenities, but as far as I'm concerned, it's in the same boat as Acura.

Two words come to mind when I think Swedish cars - sensible (ie - boring) or eccentric.

Pretty much all of Volvo's line is safe, middle of the road, and boring... but then again, that's pretty much the crowd they're marketed to. That's not to say they don't come out with something surprising every now and then such as their "R" models. The only one I've had a chance to actually drive was a black 850... that car was an 'effin hoot, the entire time I thought if Darth Vader were to trade in his Tie-Fighter, it would be for one of these.

I'd also love to take an S60 R out for a spin as well... same power output as an STS/DTS, AWD, active suspension, all in a package that weighs 600+ pounds less than the Cadillacs.

Saabs are just quirky... and their pre-GM build quality was horrendous - at least the ones I've personally had experience with. The first one I ever drove was an older 900 that belonged to a friend and it was quite an experience. I remember the seat was broken and while that normally wouldn't be much of a problem, in this case it was seeing as he was 6'7", so the seat was as far back as it went. Granted, I'm not short, but I'm only 6' and the damn thing was a 5-speed, so I could barely reach the pedals even sitting on the edge of the seat!

The new Saabs are quite nice though... especially the 9-5s. I remember the wife and I had checked out an '03 9-5 ARC. It had the V6 (which I believe was discontinued the year after), a five-speed automatic with those flappy-paddles, heated and ventilated front seats, heated rear seats, and a whole bunch of other stuff. It was a really nice car and we probably would have bought it had we not gotten such a good deal on the GS.

caddycruiser
03-21-08, 05:56 PM
Saabs are just quirky... and their pre-GM build quality was horrendous - at least the ones I've personally had experience with. The first one I ever drove was an older 900 that belonged to a friend and it was quite an experience. I remember the seat was broken and while that normally wouldn't be much of a problem, in this case it was seeing as he was 6'7", so the seat was as far back as it went. Granted, I'm not short, but I'm only 6' and the damn thing was a 5-speed, so I could barely reach the pedals even sitting on the edge of the seat!

The new Saabs are quite nice though... especially the 9-5s. I remember the wife and I had checked out an '03 9-5 ARC. It had the V6 (which I believe was discontinued the year after), a five-speed automatic with those flappy-paddles, heated and ventilated front seats, heated rear seats, and a whole bunch of other stuff. It was a really nice car and we probably would have bought it had we not gotten such a good deal on the GS.

That impression sounds EXACTLY like mine, and why I like the post GM influence Saabs most of all. Still quirky in design, but not as much so in build quality and layout which was questionable before.

I wish there was a 9-5 locally, just to try out. Right now, I could actually afford a '99-02'ish 9-5 because of their resale, but that's close to 100k and still worry me.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-21-08, 06:45 PM
Jim Halpert drives a 9-2x. Need any more reason to buy one?

Cadillacboy
03-21-08, 07:02 PM
Volvo looks more refined and classy ,Saab just rude

dkozloski
03-21-08, 07:15 PM
I like the PRE-GM Saabs. The newer ones are just not Saabs to me, they ruined the lines IMO. Saabs are very safe and designed to take a Moose head-on.

I test drove a Volvo S60 R that I really liked and was considering one when I found the V but that wasnt even a contest in the end.
Don't depend on a SAAB survivng a collision with a moose. A moose can take out a Kenworth 18 wheeler.

dkozloski
03-21-08, 07:24 PM
My neighbor had one of those three cylinder, two-stroke SAABs that sounded like a pop corn popper. He traded that for another SAAB that was the ugliest green color you ever saw and had a V4 Ford motor. After that I never took SAABs seriously again and regarded them as being part of the lunatic fringe like a Citroen or a Peugeot.

orconn
03-21-08, 08:33 PM
I drove a 195? Saab two-cycle in Africa in the late 1960's, it belonged to a friend of mine and was our prefered transportation for getting from point A to point B ..........other available vehicles included Jeeps, Land Rovers, Fiats and Alfa Romeos and sundry American and British sedans of various vintages. The Saab was reliable had a decent ride over rough roads ((despite its' canvas (read Aluminum lawn chair) sprung and combined upholstery)) and was incredibly indestructible. It also would keep up a very good pace on the straight and twisties. These cars were also very successful in sportscar racing in the late fifties. The four cycle cars and subsequent 9-3 were definitely an aquired taste. I remember driving a demo 9-3 hatchback in the late seventies and wondering how to get the emergency brake off (the car was that slow!)! The Turbo models corrected that. Ofcourse in those days the only Mercedes that would get out of its' own way was there super expensive % litre and above cars. I also like the current 9-5 wagon and would consider one if I needed a wagon ....... but only as a used car,i.e. the depreciation is too steep.

hueterm
03-22-08, 12:52 AM
They do make some of the best used car deals out there. I still like the Volvo 850/S70 a lot -- probably more than the S60.

caddycruiser
03-22-08, 10:02 AM
They do make some of the best used car deals out there. I still like the Volvo 850/S70 a lot -- probably more than the S60.

Yeah, those common little boxes seem interesting enough.

But has anyone experienced a late 90's S90 sedan or V90 wagon that was RWD with the I-6? Those seem rather rare, and from reading, the last of the "original" Volvo in terms of hardcore durability, etc.

hueterm
03-23-08, 12:44 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-VOLVO-S90-LIKE-NEW-ONLY-37K-MILES-CA-CAR-NO-RUST_W0QQitemZ160219795146QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 160219795146

Like this (except for the salvage title)?

caddycruiser
03-23-08, 11:00 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-VOLVO-S90-LIKE-NEW-ONLY-37K-MILES-CA-CAR-NO-RUST_W0QQitemZ160219795146QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 160219795146

Like this (except for the salvage title)?

Bingo.

Or, as seen in the videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0V7VWISxHE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li1XIjz28Ik

Of course, not that this^^ is of interest to me (cool...but same with my LT1 Fleetwood, which I drive like Mr. Magoo), but these things seemed like one of the last 100% Volvo's and seem to have a great reputation. The RWD, I-6, and rarity just make them cool.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-24-08, 12:32 AM
The last of the old style of Volvos if you will.
Unlike Saab, there really is no Volvo that sticks out in my mind as my favorite, but maybe it's just because I know nothing about Volvo's yet...

dkozloski
03-24-08, 01:52 AM
The best feature ever on a Volvo was the window shade in front of the radiator that you pulled up with the bathtub chain that came out of the hole in the middle of the dashboard to keep the engne temps up in subzero weather. The SU carbs were a real pain in the ass.

Sandy
03-24-08, 09:21 AM
Open Mind Time.

2008 Volvo S80 V-8 All Wheel Drive
(311 H.P. - 325 Tq. - 6-Speed Geartronic Automatic - Dynamic Stability Control - Tire Pressure Monitor - 10 Air Bags (4 Roof & 4 Door & 2 Dash) - Keyless Drive - Finger Imprint Recognition - Personal Car Communicator - Buttery Soft Stitched & Perforatted Leather - Power Glass MoonRoof - Sports Seats - Heated AND Cooled - Climate Package - Sport Package - Chrome 18" 7 Spoke Wheels - Heated & Cooled Rear Seats - Headlight Power Wash - Rainsence Wipers - Heated Windshield Washer Nozzles - Speed Sensitive Steering - Driver Controlled Suspension Settings - HID Headlights - HID Fog Lights - Dynaudio Stereo 12 Speaker with Amp, Subwoofer, Dolby, Pro-Logic III, MP3, 6-Disc In Dash C.D. Changer, Rear Headphones & 2 Jacks with seperate controls - Adoptive Cruise Control - Collision Warning with Automatic Braking, if driver fails to apply ample braking power to stop in time - Distance Alert System - Lane Change Departure Warning - Driver Alert Control - Blind Spot Information System - Front AND Rear Parking Assist - Navagation System in Dash - Dual Headrest Rear Screen DVD & Entertainment System - Sirius Satellite Radio - Wood, Leather & Suede Steering Wheel - Parking Assist Camera feature located in Navagation System - Illuminated Sill Mouldings, upon entry & Exit - Blue Tooth - i-POD Music Interface - Metallic Paint Color.

$ 65,737.00 Totally a real Luxuxry Car !

caddycruiser
03-24-08, 05:42 PM
Yes, Sandy, we know you LOVE that new S80:cool2:

I do too, and wish I could buy you a brand new pearl white one with everything on it...it would be a GREAT stablemate to the TC, if it didn't go away. And probably not missing as much or limited to certain combo's like the DTS;)

That said, the new S80 isn't doing hugely well. Lots of dealers still have 2007's sitting around, and as great of a car as it is, people would still rather go to a different brand name that's flashier for the same dough. Years ago, Volvo was ALL sharp edged boxes in different models. Now, they're all the same basic thing again (including that side character line/taillight shape that has lived on since '98), just morphed into different sizes, even an SUV.

Jesda
03-24-08, 05:56 PM
The C30 is hot.

Sandy
03-24-08, 06:32 PM
Caddycruiser, I agree with (only) 110% with every single thing you said ~ Nail hit on head....Still, I crave one of these cars, loaded to the headliner. I am not WOWed by glitzy names (M-B / BMW / etc.... BUT by content -VS- price, but, I really cannot afford to order this car. I would be "poor" by USA gov. standards, if I did. But I can dream. Pearl White / Black Leather.

Yes, my Town Car is still here with 12,000 on it and looking really great.
The 93 Sixty Special has 9,845 miles and is flawless perfection & in storage.
Wife's Jeep Cherokee LTD 4X4 has 46,000 and in & out is flawless, and everything works = except the A/C which checked out. It's a $3,000 fix. I guess I'll have to do it. All 1997-2001 Cherokees blow this. It's the Evaporator, a 12 hour job, I heard. Me thinks the compressor also waved bye bye. "April's Business" ~

caddycruiser
03-24-08, 06:57 PM
The C30 is hot.

YES. Of course, most dealers only order and stock them loaded to $30k and above, but they provide a GREAT economy vs. sport vs. luxury car for Volvo. More distinctive than something like a Rabbit (itself very nice) and others.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/c30a.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/c30b.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/c30c.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/c30d.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/caddycruiser/c30e.jpg

They need to force more out with less options and in the $22-25k range and not much more, because that's a sweet spot for import sport coupes. Arguably, still worth it at $30k+, but at that point, you automatically start thinking about other bigger, fancier yet things you can get for the same dough.

omarg
03-29-08, 02:49 AM
my family had some old saab 900's the pre GM ones. they were cool and reliable but nor very luxo. I had a 1996 saab 900 S (non turbo) terrible car. Terrible build quality. Loud, didn't handle nicely.

Old Volvo's can be hit and miss with reliablility. I've had friends who have had no problems, but quite a few more lemons.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-29-08, 09:51 AM
I think next Friday I'll go out and visit the local Saab and Volvo dealers....snoop around a bit, grab some brochures....educate myself on the new swede offerings. :)

77CDV
03-30-08, 12:33 AM
The only Volvo I've ever seen that I kind of liked was a little coupe with a very fast backlight they sold in the 1960s. I can't think of the model name. 1600? It was a nice looking car, still is, but like most Volvos underpowered and overnoisey. Saabs were just strange. Both marques have become better cars since being bought by GM and Ford, though they both sacrificed some individuality to the process.

dkozloski
03-30-08, 12:38 AM
A neat car back in the day was the P1800S Volvo. They handled well even though they were softly sprung.

MauiV
03-30-08, 06:24 PM
I have friends on Maui that track their P1800s with the SCCA there. Very fun cars.

The guy that owns Maui Built surfwear has a Z8 that kicks everyones ass. That car is INSANE.

hueterm
03-30-08, 06:51 PM
The S80 V8 is really nice, but $65K -- ??

MauiV
03-30-08, 06:55 PM
The S80 V8 is really nice, but $65K -- ??

You cant swing a dead cat without hitting one around here.

On the weekends when the "coal money" comes out of the hills they are quite plentiful, especially in Lexington.

hueterm
03-30-08, 06:58 PM
Unless they get discounted a heap, you're into Lexus LS land at $65K...not AWD, but....

MauiV
03-30-08, 07:02 PM
I think the fact that a lot of their head on traffic being coal trucks is a HUGE selling point.

I know someone posted something about some pretty significant incentives not to long ago.

orconn
03-30-08, 07:56 PM
I lived in Southeastern Ohio a long time ago ...... and shared (not really accurate) the roads with coal trucks on too many occasions so can understand Volvo's reputation making them very attractive. But I don'y think even Volvos are a match for a badly placed coal truck or Virginia lumber truck for that matter, howver with those great seats at least your last ride will be very comfortable!

caddycruiser
03-30-08, 10:21 PM
Unless they get discounted a heap, you're into Lexus LS land at $65K...not AWD, but....

They do, and it's hard to actually find one that has every box checked and it into the $60k's. Most are low 40's (6-cyl) up to low $50k's (V8).

Still, either seems to turn people off and towards other brands, as there's a lot of dealers who have quite a few new '07 S80's now. Large discounts are pretty normal, either new-new or leftover.

Great car, but the size/styling just doesn't stand out enough for the other big players at similar prices.

Jesda
03-31-08, 04:18 AM
Theres a $347 lease deal on the S80 now. Pretty nice offer.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-31-08, 08:53 AM
Volvo makes the trucks to haul the coal around in, and the luxury vehicles for the CEO's of said coal companies to commute in.

caddycruiser
03-31-08, 03:27 PM
Volvo makes the trucks to haul the coal around in, and the luxury vehicles for the CEO's of said coal companies to commute in.

YES. You nailed it:thumbsup:

Well, except for Volvo cars not typically being high on the list of CEO's and other similar people of status...but I bet a few do;)

As for Saab? Hmm...this in the day (Saab Gripen):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Swedish_JAS-39_Gripen_landing.jpg/800px-Swedish_JAS-39_Gripen_landing.jpg

and then home in a 9-5...

Well, theoretically, at least.

Night Wolf
03-31-08, 04:56 PM
I almost got a job working on Saab's...

http://www.saabhistory.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/340_saab_small.jpg

Sandy
03-31-08, 05:06 PM
The S80 V-8 AWD with the options has way more features than any Infiniti nor Lexus does.
Higher level of detail on the interior, as well.

Window around $65,000 with all the goodies, but dealers will give off $3,000, and on & off during any given year the factory will add "spiffs" ~ at times as high as $2,000.

The FWD 6-Cylinder with few options is like a half baked potatoe. (You don't want it).

hueterm
03-31-08, 05:49 PM
Even if you deck out the LS460? Granted that's going to push the LS' price up another what -- 15 grand...

What does the S80 have that the LS doesn't (regardless of price)?

Sandy
04-04-08, 07:53 PM
2008 Volvo S80 V-8 All Wheel Drive
(311 H.P. - 325 Tq. - 6-Speed Geartronic Automatic - Dynamic Stability Control - Tire Pressure Monitor - 10 Air Bags (4 Roof & 4 Door & 2 Dash) - Keyless Drive - Finger Imprint Recognition - Personal Car Communicator - Buttery Soft Stitched & Perforatted Leather - Power Glass MoonRoof - Sports Seats - Heated AND Cooled - Climate Package - Sport Package - Chrome 18" 7 Spoke Wheels - Heated & Cooled Rear Seats - Headlight Power Wash - Rainsence Wipers - Heated Windshield Washer Nozzles - Speed Sensitive Steering - Driver Controlled Suspension Settings - HID Headlights - HID Fog Lights - Dynaudio Stereo 12 Speaker with Amp, Subwoofer, Dolby, Pro-Logic III, MP3, 6-Disc In Dash C.D. Changer, Rear Headphones & 2 Jacks with seperate controls - Adoptive Cruise Control - Collision Warning with Automatic Braking, if driver fails to apply ample braking power to stop in time - Distance Alert System - Lane Change Departure Warning - Driver Alert Control - Blind Spot Information System - Front AND Rear Parking Assist - Navagation System in Dash - Dual Headrest Rear Screen DVD & Entertainment System - Sirius Satellite Radio - Wood, Leather & Suede Steering Wheel - Parking Assist Camera feature located in Navagation System - Illuminated Sill Mouldings, upon entry & Exit - Blue Tooth - i-POD Music Interface - Metallic Paint Color.

I do not have the Lexus LS 460 book to compare. Maybe you do?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-04-08, 08:51 PM
I went down to the local Volvo dealer today and looked around real quick at a C30 they had on the showfloor.....god, what a car! It is by far the nicest compact luxury/sports hatchback on the market today....excellent fit and finish, very high quality of materials, great design, great performance, and you can tell that Volvo spent a lot of time and money developing the car. If Mercedes or BMW built a hatchback, this is what I'd expect it to feel like. :)

For example, The C30's main competitor, the Mini Cooper S, is available in ten different exterior colors. The C30 is available in fifteen. Four shades of blue, two shades of red, two shades of black, three shades of silver/grey, two shades of white, etc etc. The C30 offers sixteen different types of wheels, the Cooper S has eight.

Overall, the C30 has an expensive, solid, heavy feel that most other cars of it's nature do not. Mini Cooper included.

hueterm
04-04-08, 09:42 PM
2008 Volvo S80 V-8 All Wheel Drive
(311 H.P. - 325 Tq. - 6-Speed Geartronic Automatic - Dynamic Stability Control - Tire Pressure Monitor - 10 Air Bags (4 Roof & 4 Door & 2 Dash) - Keyless Drive - Finger Imprint Recognition - Personal Car Communicator - Buttery Soft Stitched & Perforatted Leather - Power Glass MoonRoof - Sports Seats - Heated AND Cooled - Climate Package - Sport Package - Chrome 18" 7 Spoke Wheels - Heated & Cooled Rear Seats - Headlight Power Wash - Rainsence Wipers - Heated Windshield Washer Nozzles - Speed Sensitive Steering - Driver Controlled Suspension Settings - HID Headlights - HID Fog Lights - Dynaudio Stereo 12 Speaker with Amp, Subwoofer, Dolby, Pro-Logic III, MP3, 6-Disc In Dash C.D. Changer, Rear Headphones & 2 Jacks with seperate controls - Adoptive Cruise Control - Collision Warning with Automatic Braking, if driver fails to apply ample braking power to stop in time - Distance Alert System - Lane Change Departure Warning - Driver Alert Control - Blind Spot Information System - Front AND Rear Parking Assist - Navagation System in Dash - Dual Headrest Rear Screen DVD & Entertainment System - Sirius Satellite Radio - Wood, Leather & Suede Steering Wheel - Parking Assist Camera feature located in Navagation System - Illuminated Sill Mouldings, upon entry & Exit - Blue Tooth - i-POD Music Interface - Metallic Paint Color.

I do not have the Lexus LS 460 book to compare. Maybe you do?

No -- just working off of assumptions from seeing a few.

orconn
04-04-08, 11:58 PM
I went down to the local Volvo dealer today and looked around real quick at a C30 they had on the showfloor.....god, what a car! It is by far the nicest compact luxury/sports hatchback on the market today....excellent fit and finish, very high quality of materials, great design, great performance, and you can tell that Volvo spent a lot of time and money developing the car. If Mercedes or BMW built a hatchback, this is what I'd expect it to feel like. :)

For example, The C30's main competitor, the Mini Cooper S, is available in ten different exterior colors. The C30 is available in fifteen. Four shades of blue, two shades of red, two shades of black, three shades of silver/grey, two shades of white, etc etc. The C30 offers sixteen different types of wheels, the Cooper S has eight.

Overall, the C30 has an expensive, solid, heavy feel that most other cars of it's nature do not. Mini Cooper included.

Mercedes did import a hatchback ......... and it was a neat car, especially with the 6 speed manual. It had more room than the 9-3 2 door hatchback and a hell of a lot more get up and go. It was called 230 Kompressor Sport Coupe and was built on the same chassis as the other C-Class cars and had the same wheel base. It was marketed in the US between 2002 and 2005 when it was withdrawn due to poor sales. I ordered one and had one of the first 20 cars delivered in 2001 in VA. I thought the car was a lot of fun ........ certainly more fun than other Mercedes I had drive in the last ten years. Although well equipped in base form, the car, unfortunately, got rather pricey as the optional equipment was priced at M-B stratospheric prices ($800.00 for a 5 disc CD changer, sunroof $1500.00, leather $1500.00, etc). I enjoyed it as a occassional car for two years and sold it to my son when his law school car lease ran out. Apparently American buyers have a phobia about "hatchbacks" hence the VW Jetta and no Honda hatchback in this country.

gary88
04-05-08, 02:30 AM
BMW does have a hatchback, though we don't get it, and it looks like this inside :highfive:

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/auto_shows/2007_geneva/6693910/0701_z+2008_bmw_1_series_3_door+interior.jpg

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-05-08, 11:00 AM
Mercedes did import a hatchback ......... and it was a neat car, especially with the 6 speed manual. It had more room than the 9-3 2 door hatchback and a hell of a lot more get up and go. It was called 230 Kompressor Sport Coupe and was built on the same chassis as the other C-Class cars and had the same wheel base. It was marketed in the US between 2002 and 2005 when it was withdrawn due to poor sales. I ordered one and had one of the first 20 cars delivered in 2001 in VA. I thought the car was a lot of fun ........ certainly more fun than other Mercedes I had drive in the last ten years. Although well equipped in base form, the car, unfortunately, got rather pricey as the optional equipment was priced at M-B stratospheric prices ($800.00 for a 5 disc CD changer, sunroof $1500.00, leather $1500.00, etc). I enjoyed it as a occassional car for two years and sold it to my son when his law school car lease ran out. Apparently American buyers have a phobia about "hatchbacks" hence the VW Jetta and no Honda hatchback in this country.

Ah yeah, I remember those now. I think I had the brochure for them, but I threw it out. Didn't those have like a full glass roof or something? Like that was their distinction?

MauiV
04-05-08, 01:06 PM
Apparently American buyers have a phobia about "hatchbacks" hence the VW Jetta and no Honda hatchback in this country.


Nothing "phobia" about it. IMO they are just horridly ugly. If the Mazdaspeed5 was available in a sedan I would probably have one as a daily driver right now. The baby Bimmer hatch that was available a few years ago is atrocious.

The Jetta is just a much better looking car than the Golf and the Jetta isnt exactly appealing. The R32 is a nice car with good power but not imported as a 4 door to the States. A Jetta edition would be nice. I had a VR6 Passat GLX in the late 90s and enjoyed that car so I have nothing against VW.

The new CTS coupe looks WAY to much like a hatch IMO and Cadillac REALLY needs to fix that trunk area before its released.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-05-08, 01:43 PM
The R32 is a nice car with good power but not imported as a 4 door to the States.

If I remember correctly, the R32 is now available as a four door. Atleast the base GTi is.

MauiV
04-05-08, 02:01 PM
From what I have read the R32 is not and will not be imported as a 4 door and if your gonna spend the money on an ugly souped up Golf you might as well go all the way and get the R.

jey
04-07-08, 04:05 PM
What does the S80 have that the LS doesn't (regardless of price)?

- Dual Headrest Rear Screen DVD & Entertainment System

Is there any other sedan in the market that has this off the showroom? I mean, a fully loaded STS will have most of the features listed there but when I got to the dual rear screen DVD system my mouth dropped. Though it's just A/V - a decent aftermarket installer should be able to do a very clean install that looks factory on any car.

Playdrv4me
04-07-08, 04:35 PM
Volvo S60R Automatic. Hate to say it... probably a more enjoyable everyday driver than my M3.

Playdrv4me
04-07-08, 04:36 PM
- Dual Headrest Rear Screen DVD & Entertainment System

Is there any other sedan in the market that has this off the showroom? I mean, a fully loaded STS will have most of the features listed there but when I got to the dual rear screen DVD system my mouth dropped. Though it's just A/V - a decent aftermarket installer should be able to do a very clean install that looks factory on any car.

Jaguar Super V8 (XJ) was the first to feature this.

theryman2000
04-08-08, 12:07 AM
I've owned six Volvo Turbos and have loved them all. Went to the STS when Volvo shrunk the 07 S80. The Volvo seat comfort is superior to any car I have driven and the turbos are smooth. The cabin noise is much louder than the Caddy's and the fit and trim just isn't the same as a Caddy. However the new Volvo S80 T6 is very nice. The wood is non glossy which gives it a natural look. Nothing beats the ride and raw performance of a Cadillac but the performance and design of the Volvo should not be overlooked. Go to www.brickboard.com to read what Volvo owners are saying...

Jesda
04-08-08, 01:39 AM
Hatchbacks are ugly. Europeans accepted them out of necessity.

Playdrv4me
04-08-08, 03:15 AM
Hatchbacks are ugly. Europeans accepted them out of necessity.

What I love about hatchbacks is how if you go on Automotive websites every Tom, Dick and Joe proclaims his undying love for them and that "if XX manufacturer would just bring XX hatchback over here, I would buy it in a new york minute!"

...

Reality... they sit on the lot. Funny, don't know what happens to all those big talkers.