I went into my dealer today to inquire about bluetooth pricing
and the availability of those vehicles.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-forum-2008-beyond/134853-how-much-more-expensive-will-bt-2.html

Just for the heck of it I asked him to give me a comparison of
a 2-year lease compared to 3-year.

Holy Cow! The difference in price per month was $10! The dealer
cites the reason for the high residual cost.

Suffice to say, not having bluetooth is no longer a big deal. I am
going to switch over from the pre-ordered 3-year lease to 2-year.

Additionally, my dealer feels that the way GM is going, they will
lure me out of that lease in about 20 months.

Hopefully I will have my CTS later today. They had just unloaded
a truck filled with vehicles and I'll know shortly if my Crystal Red
with ebony interior was on it.

I went into my dealer today to inquire about bluetooth pricing
and the availability of those vehicles.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-forum-2008-beyond/134853-how-much-more-expensive-will-bt-2.html

Just for the heck of it I asked him to give me a comparison of
a 2-year lease compared to 3-year.

Holy Cow! The difference in price per month was $10! The dealer
cites the reason for the high residual cost.

Suffice to say, not having bluetooth is no longer a big deal. I am
going to switch over from the pre-ordered 3-year lease to 2-year.

Additionally, my dealer feels that the way GM is going, they will
lure me out of that lease in about 20 months.

Hopefully I will have my CTS later today. They had just unloaded
a truck filled with vehicles and I'll know shortly if my Crystal Red
with ebony interior was on it.

Told you! :cloud9:

...Just for the heck of it I asked him to give me a comparison of
a 2-year lease compared to 3-year.

Holy Cow! The difference in price per month was $10! The dealer
cites the reason for the high residual cost.
...
Additionally, my dealer feels that the way GM is going, they will
lure me out of that lease in about 20 months.
...

coupla questions - what are the due-at-closing and miles-per-year numbers for the two plans?
and what do you think the dealer meant by that statement? I could read any number of things into it.
rg

Happy to share my lease deal...

LOADED CTS (all options)

$4k cash down + $1590 rebate = $5590 down
12k miles per year

3 year lease = $555 month
2 year lease = $565 month

Same money down, same mileage. 2-year lease costs $10 more than 3-year
and I could be out of it in 20 months if I stay with GM.

Looks good. so was Crystal Red on the truck? bet you can't wait (much longer that is . . .)
did you see the recent thread about what to look for at delivery?
I would add that the salesperson should show you all the features and settings. pay attention.
rg

Nope, not on the truck. I would have been called by now.

Probably another week at the most. Not sure how often they
get their vehicle delivery.

I just happened to have printed out elements from that thread
on what to look for in delivery. Will have it in my hand when
I take ownership.

Thanks, Ronster.

Why would you put money down on a lease purchase? That makes no sense whatsoever! It's negative equity and you could be making interest off of that in another way. NEVER put money down on a lease. How many times do we have to say that statement for people to listen.

Why would you put money down on a lease purchase? That makes no sense whatsoever! It's negative equity and you could be making interest off of that in another way. NEVER put money down on a lease. How many times do we have to say that statement for people to listen.

truth be told I didn't know you could get out the door with no money involved. money up front buys down the monthly payment. I am "renting" this vehicle so there is no equity. maybe it has to do with credit history and the dealer's relationship with the customer. in my case the lease costs (DAC and monthly) beat what I could lend myself from my line of credit (this was in november 07 when interest rates were higher than they are now).
rg

Happy to share my lease deal...

LOADED CTS (all options)

$4k cash down + $1590 rebate = $5590 down
12k miles per year

3 year lease = $555 month
2 year lease = $565 month

Same money down, same mileage. 2-year lease costs $10 more than 3-year
and I could be out of it in 20 months if I stay with GM.
That's a very good deal.
How's your dealer?
Thanks.

Why would you put money down on a lease purchase? That makes no sense whatsoever! It's negative equity and you could be making interest off of that in another way. NEVER put money down on a lease. How many times do we have to say that statement for people to listen.

This could be good information.
Is it possible to lease a car with no money down?
Is it done on a regular basis?

Of course it's possible. But it will make your payment higher.

Why would you put money down on a lease purchase? That makes no sense whatsoever! It's negative equity and you could be making interest off of that in another way. NEVER put money down on a lease. How many times do we have to say that statement for people to listen.

This is your OPINION, and should be stated as such.

Guess what Bizman? If you BOUGHT a CTS and put $5K down on it and drove it off the lot, would you not have NEGATIVE EQUITY? YES you would.

I put money down on leases. Why? Because it WORKS FOR ME. What happens if you get laid off in a year? Or if the market turns and you lose my job? Do you think that GM would say "Hey, Mr. Bizman, don't worry about it, you can just give the car back!" No, they wouldn't. BUT if you put money down WHEN YOU HAVE IT, then your payments are lower for the life of the lease, giving you more flexibility if you need it.

I'm in the finance world, and sometimes mortgages come up. There are idiots who won't pay points on a mortgage "just because". Just because it's somehow been ingrained in them not to pay them. But guess what, there are times that points not only work, but are a no brainer.

The negative equity theory doesn't work here in Massachusetts....if your car is totalled, they pay off the lease. Will you lose your downpayment if you total it in 6 months? Yes. No doubt about it. But you will lose it the SAME if you purchase the car and don't have an insurance company that will pay for a new car, not just the value of the smashed one.

NEVER put money into a lease!!! If your in an accident that money disappears. The insurance company will not refund you your "down payment". If your putting that kind of money into a lease and leasing is your way to get lower payments then it becomes very obvious that this car is to costly for you. Start a business or something so leasing makes more sense.

Do you realize what you can do with $5,000 besides put it towards a car you wont even own and be"pulled out of in 20 months by GM"? GM will be looking to get you into another lease and another $5000 down on the next car and so on. $2500/year to slightly buy down your payments does not make sense. Please dont do it...BTW--this isnt an opinion...its leasing fact.

I'm in the finance world, and sometimes mortgages come up. There are idiots who won't pay points on a mortgage "just because". Just because it's somehow been ingrained in them not to pay them. But guess what, there are times that points not only work, but are a no brainer.

Your in the finance world? And you make a statement like this?? Are you kidding??

Next time you need a mortgage call me...pay your points "just because"...paying points ONLY work for a small number of people who understand what they are doing and why they are doing it. Upfront payments for anything you will not own in short order is ALWAYS an idiot move. :rolleyes:

Your in the finance world? And you make a statement like this?? Are you kidding??

Next time you need a mortgage call me...pay your points "just because"...paying points ONLY work for a small number of people who understand what they are doing and why they are doing it. Upfront payments for anything you will not own in short order is ALWAYS an idiot move. :rolleyes:

You OBVIOUSLY don't know what you're talking about. Its a fact that if you're going to stay in your house for longer than it takes to pay yourself back for the points, then it's a no brainer. For instance, you buy a point on a mortgage for a house you'll be in for 30 years. Lets say it costs you $5K up front, and lowers your payment by $50 per month. After 100 months, you've paid that $5K back to yourself with lower payments, right? Well for the next 260 months in the mortgage, you save $13,000. That doesn't make sense?

Ok, so you pay your mortgage off early, in 15 years. You STILL save $4000. That doesn't make sense? Tell me where I'm wrong please.

:grouphug:

NEVER put money into a lease!!! If your in an accident that money disappears. The insurance company will not refund you your "down payment". If your putting that kind of money into a lease and leasing is your way to get lower payments then it becomes very obvious that this car is to costly for you. Start a business or something so leasing makes more sense.

I will debate this all day long. If you put $10K down on a car that depreciates, and you total it in 7 months, do you get your down payment back?

By the way, the cars in my stable are a 2005 Porsche, 2005 Acura MDX, and 2008 Cadillac...no, this car is not too costly for me.

sorry you got dragged into this, 08CTS.

I know you were trying to help.

Honestly, I can afford to buy the vehicle outright, but I want to be in a new
and different car every few years. Leasing may not be the right choice for
everyone, but for my needs this is the most affordable.

Let's stop the angry and senseless debating. I have been a happy leaser for
many years now. I don't need anyone trying to lecture me on why I shouldn't
go down this road.

sorry you got dragged into this, 08CTS.

I know you were trying to help.

No worries, it's all healthy conversation :bonkers:

Upfront payments for anything you will not own in short order is ALWAYS an idiot move. :rolleyes:That's not true.... paying points in a mortgage can be very benifitial to someone that plans to stay in that house for a long period of time.

I for one work for a family business and have no plans or desires to move or upgrade my house. My wife and I will be very happy if we can live and retire in it... paying points to get a lower rate is a HUGE advantage to us over the long run of owning the house... however, if we do move it would be money lost....

In a car lease... Making a downpayment isn't normally advisable. The Gap insurance only covers what is owed, and doesn't pay you for your downpayment. If you were to drive off the lot and total your car... you're just plain out that money. One would have to measure the risk vs the rewards... most of the time, you can earn as much in a High Yield Rate CD that you'd save in the buy down rate for the downpayment...even taking into consideration the income tax you'd owe. Not always, but just about always it not a good idea to put money down on a lease.

Now, doing a Security Deposit Buy Down is different. That money is totally secure and refundable at the end of the lease in most cases... BMW has multiple security deposits that can be placed on a lease (I think they cap it at 7) that will buy down the rate... I that case, the money might well be placed in the MSD instead of the CD...each person would need to look at it to see how good/bad it would be for them.

Why would you put money down on a lease purchase? That makes no sense whatsoever! It's negative equity and you could be making interest off of that in another way. NEVER put money down on a lease. How many times do we have to say that statement for people to listen.

I agree that's alot to put down. I was out the door at $2995 for a 3 yr. w/ the same monthly

I will debate this all day long. If you put $10K down on a car that depreciates, and you total it in 7 months, do you get your down payment back? That would depend on where you are from... in Georgia you'd be able to collect depriciated value from the at fault insurance company... so yes you would.

The point being made is what does putting the money down in the lease do for you?

Typically, it saves some on the interest. However, when you do the math, you normally find out that the savings isn't that much when compared to a High Yied CD or MM account, even after income tax is considered. The question is ... is your downpayment worth the risk of losing it for a 100 bucks?

If you want... I'd be happy to run your numbers for you so you can see...

BTW, I'm could care less if you lease or buy or put money down... I just want to help educate you so can make the most informed decision you can with your money. What you do with your money is none of my business... So I'll be happy to just buzz of if you don't want it.

That's not true.... paying points in a mortgage can be very benifitial to someone that plans to stay in that house for a long period of time.

I for one work for a family business and have no plans or desires to move or upgrade my house. My wife and I will be very happy if we can live and retire in it... paying points to get a lower rate is a HUGE advantage to us over the long run of owning the house... however, if we do move it would be money lost....

In a car lease... Making a downpayment isn't normally advisable. The Gap insurance only covers what is owed, and doesn't pay you for your downpayment. If you were to drive off the lot and total your car... you're just plain out that money. One would have to measure the risk vs the rewards... most of the time, you can earn as much in a High Yield Rate CD that you'd say in the buy down rate for the downpayment...even taking into consideration the income tax you'd owe. Not always, but just about always it not a good idea to put money down on a lease.

Now, doing a Security Deposit Buy Down is different. That money is totally secure and refundable at the end of the lease in most cases... BMW has multiple security deposits that can be placed on a lease (I think they cap it at 7) that will buy down the rate... I that case, the money might well be placed in the MSD instead of the CD...each person would need to look at it to see how good/bad it would be for them.


Well written

I had been leasing Saabs for the last six years before I bought my cts last week. Both leases were no money down. It just depends how much you want your monthly payment to be. The more down, the less the payment. I agree with Bizman, you should put down nothing if you can afford it or as little as possible. The factors are the same no what you put down. Just have the dealer run the deal with nothing down and see what it comes to.

Ranton,

Out of curiosity, can you give us the price range of your vehicles
and the monthly lease rate with no money down?

The last Saab stickered at about 47 or 48k, I got a below invoice price but to be honest I can't rember what it was. Residual was 26k. I even rolled in my taxes, title and tags so when I say I put nothing down, I mean absolutely zero. 12000 miles/yr. 3 yrs. Payment was $678/month. That may be high for a lot of people but I didn't want to put anything down. (lease had gap insurance and no security deposit) That was just my choice. If I was advising someone on a lease I would say put down as little as possible and take the highest payment you can afford to minimize out of pocket dollars.

Happy to share my lease deal...

LOADED CTS (all options)

$4k cash down + $1590 rebate = $5590 down
12k miles per year

3 year lease = $555 month
2 year lease = $565 month

Same money down, same mileage. 2-year lease costs $10 more than 3-year
and I could be out of it in 20 months if I stay with GM.

I paid $4400 down 3yrs $465 per month 10,000 miles per yr. for a loaded DI AWD FE2. Thats w/ a $1000 rebate

Oh I am getting ripped off in the lease.

The problem was, I took that lease price to three other
Cadillac dealers here in the NJ area and they could not
come close. One finally succumbed to beat it by $5 less a month.

For some reason, this area is very expensive when it
comes to Cadillac leasing.

Oh I am getting ripped off in the lease.

The problem was, I took that lease price to three other
Cadillac dealers here in the NJ area and they could not
come close. One finally succumbed to beat it by $5 less a month.

For some reason, this area is very expensive when it
comes to Cadillac leasing.
NJ,
What were your terms?

I paid $4400 down 3yrs $465 per month 10,000 miles per yr. for a loaded DI AWD FE2. Thats w/ a $1000 rebate


That sounds like a pretty good deal, particularly for 3 years!

I paid $3000 out of pocket (plus $2K Conquest Cash Rebate) total $5K due at signing including rebate, loaded except for Lux II AWD DI Blue Chip FE2.

$428/month 24 months/10K per year.

Oh I am getting ripped off in the lease.

The problem was, I took that lease price to three other
Cadillac dealers here in the NJ area and they could not
come close. One finally succumbed to beat it by $5 less a month.

For some reason, this area is very expensive when it
comes to Cadillac leasing.

I wouldn't say you're getting ripped off at all. I think your deal, now that its in the $560 range including taxes, is pretty good. At $600 you were getting taken for a ride..

The topic of putting money down on a lease is only an issue if your car is a total loss and you are counting on Gap Insurance to cover your negative equity. Otherwise, it's a "pay me now or pay me later" issue. They are going to get your money one way or another.

Any other financial advice on this forum falls under the heading of "you get what you pay for". Giving someone financial advice on a forum implies the advisor knows an awful lot about the advisees financial situation - which is highly unlikely.

The topic of putting money down on a lease is only an issue if your car is a total loss and you are counting on Gap Insurance to cover your negative equity. Otherwise, it's a "pay me now or pay me later" issue. They are going to get your money one way or another.

Any other financial advice on this forum falls under the heading of "you get what you pay for". Giving someone financial advice on a forum implies the advisor knows an awful lot about the advisees financial situation - which is highly unlikely.

You're absolutely right about both points...which is why I get annoyed when someone says "never put money down on a lease" and "never buy points on a mortgage" etc.....everybodys situation is different, and all we can do is offer our opinions

I wouldn't say you're getting ripped off at all. I think your deal, now that its in the $560 range including taxes, is pretty good

It's okay, but look at the other posted lease deals in this thread and you can see
that I am still being taken for a ride on this lease.

As I said, nobody even tried to beat that offer in this area, and when they finally
did it was by $5 a month.

Don't forget that NJ Tax is 7% and there is a small luxury tax as well.

I'm kind of chalking it up to the fact that things are just very expensive in this
state and dealers know that they can get more for their vehicles. My dealer
even admitted to me that since the CTS is in huge demand that you aren't
going to get the better lease deals from other companies whose cars aren't
moving off the lot (such as Acura).

You OBVIOUSLY don't know what you're talking about. Its a fact that if you're going to stay in your house for longer than it takes to pay yourself back for the points, then it's a no brainer. For instance, you buy a point on a mortgage for a house you'll be in for 30 years. Lets say it costs you $5K up front, and lowers your payment by $50 per month. After 100 months, you've paid that $5K back to yourself with lower payments, right? Well for the next 260 months in the mortgage, you save $13,000. That doesn't make sense?

Ok, so you pay your mortgage off early, in 15 years. You STILL save $4000. That doesn't make sense? Tell me where I'm wrong please.

Please re-read my statement. Your comparing paying points on a MORTGAGE to an auto lease. An auto lease is a "short term rental" and comparing this to someone who stays in their home 30 years just cant be done.

People shop these days for a monthly payment. Not the BIG picture and final costs. Its no wonder everybody is in credit trouble!

BTW--the average american stays in their home less than 7 years. Your example above would cost a homeowner much more than the $50 they save each month.

Again..Invest your down payment and let it sit a bit...youll actually MAKE money, OR pay off any debt you have...this is like making a 9-20% immediate return, and then you can BUY that Porsche that you and I both have in our garages!!

Man, I wish I was in the leasing business!! People would be throwing cash at me!:rolleyes:

That's not true.... paying points in a mortgage can be very benifitial to someone that plans to stay in that house for a long period of time.
Again..please re-read my statement. "SHORT ORDER" means "SHORT TERM"...such as an auto loan/lease. I agree that in order to make points beneficial you MUST stay for a very long period of time.

I will debate this all day long. If you put $10K down on a car that depreciates, and you total it in 7 months, do you get your down payment back?

By the way, the cars in my stable are a 2005 Porsche, 2005 Acura MDX, and 2008 Cadillac...no, this car is not too costly for me.

You really dont want to compare "stables". Cause mine is BIGGER than yours!:cool2:

Cause mine is BIGGER than yours!:cool2:

OK, so now this has degenerated into a "mine is bigger than yours" argument? Geez...:thepan:

OK, so now this has degenerated into a "mine is bigger than yours" argument? Geez...:thepan:

Thats EXACTLY the point I was trying to make. Any good argument/discussion is lost once someone starts with the "This is whats in my stable..." argument.

Although saying you have a Porsche usually means base Boxster. Anyone else would have said "911" or "Cayman S", etc... IM KIDDING!!;)

Thats EXACTLY the point I was trying to make. Any good argument/discussion is lost once someone starts with the "This is whats in my stable..." argument.

Although saying you have a Porsche usually means base Boxster. Anyone else would have said "911" or "Cayman S", etc... IM KIDDING!!;)

No problem....it's a Boxster S and I love it

I hate when people start talking about their stables too. But when someone mentions that the CTS is "too costly" for me....well then I have to respond!

Anyhow, I'm off my soapbox now, so CONGRATS TO NJRONBO! :thumbsup:

I hate when people start talking about their stables too.

So do I, if only because my "stable" consists of one car.

It's not so bad now that my one car is a 2008 CTS, and not a 2005 Cobalt SS/SC :)

Still, my goal is to at least have a Porsche Cayman someday, if not a 911 :)