: 09' CTS-V vs Little "Big" brother new Pontiac G8 GXP?



jasaero
03-15-08, 01:51 PM
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/15/new-york-08-preview-2009-pontiac-g8-gxp-packs-402-hp-and-a/

I will admitt it's not a fair fight, but an interesting thing to decide between if you are like me and a V1 owner who uses the car as a primary vehicle and takes road trips with the family in it and such. The G8 GXP should match or exceed the V1 pretty easy and IMHO is actually a little nicer inside judging from the GT. V2 will be a much more exciting car overall, but this G8 is bigger while probably being 200lbs lighter. The larger size though gives it much better rear legroom, much bigger trunk, and more fuel. On top of all that it's going to be WAY cheaper no matter where they each come in. Only large handicap is that US regs don't allow the low placed infotainment screen in the aussie sorced G8 to work as a nav so that option won't be available until they can update the interior and HVAC routings in the cabin. It should have bluetooth though as a 2009 model.

Seattle CTS-V
03-15-08, 02:22 PM
Looks good to me. That saves about, what, $30k or so for mods? I would wait to see how well it does turns b/f really considering it though.

thebigjimsho
03-15-08, 02:35 PM
Look, I want a V2 no matter what the price difference. BUT, I really like the G8. It is very comfortable, very big inside and well packaged overall. And, C&D noted that there is suppose to be an even more powerful version in the future. It's certainly a great option for those not wanting to spend the $$$ for the V2...

CIWS
03-15-08, 04:08 PM
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CTSV_510
03-15-08, 08:15 PM
Look, I want a V2 no matter what the price difference. BUT, I really like the G8. It is very comfortable, very big inside and well packaged overall. And, C&D noted that there is suppose to be an even more powerful version in the future. It's certainly a great option for those not wanting to spend the $$$ for the V2...

The G8 GXP that he is referring to here IS the more powerful version of the G8 GT that C&D tested. It gets the LS3.

BowenCT
03-15-08, 08:28 PM
I'll give credit where credit is due, but why, why, WHY can't the designers at Pontiac part themselves from the grille nostrils and hood scoops???????

Soooooooo played out!

HITMONEY
03-15-08, 09:00 PM
I'll give credit where credit is due, but why, why, WHY can't the designers at Pontiac part themselves from the grille nostrils and hood scoops???????

Soooooooo played out!

I said it somewhere else... looks like a 1989 Grand Am.

jasaero
03-15-08, 09:32 PM
Look, I want a V2 no matter what the price difference. BUT, I really like the G8. It is very comfortable, very big inside and well packaged overall. And, C&D noted that there is suppose to be an even more powerful version in the future. It's certainly a great option for those not wanting to spend the $$$ for the V2...

This is it! The GXP with the LS3 and 400hp rather than the 360 of the GT. Also the only one that will probably have a manual as the DOD on the GT is apparently not working with Manuals real well yet.

Albertan
03-15-08, 10:28 PM
Went to local car show yesterday. First car I saw was a Red BMW. Then as I got closer, I could see there were a lot of GM vehicles around. Then I saw the G8 badging. Even the typical Pontiac front end is modified and looks like a BMW.
Very nice car. Don't think I would trade down from my V1 but if I was in the market I'd look real close. I think it will be popular. Looks like it has a steel rear.

JimmyH
03-15-08, 10:49 PM
That is one hot looking car. Sunburst Orange has to be the greatest color of all time. If it looks like a BMW, I remember reading somewhere that is the buyers GM is looking to woo. That might be a stretch. But as a former jap-car guy, GM certainly has my attention these days.

CIWS
03-15-08, 11:10 PM
With either carrying an LS engine, that thing can be easily modified and tuned. Look at the kind of numbers the 08 corvettes are getting.

jasaero
03-16-08, 12:26 AM
With either carrying an LS engine, that thing can be easily modified and tuned. Look at the kind of numbers the 08 corvettes are getting.

Yeah. It is probably either sound and refinement adjustments somewhere taking power or something with to tune to allow such a big car with LS3 to bypass gas guzzler taxes since they want final price to be really strong on this car.

v84life
03-16-08, 12:40 AM
GM product is now looking very strong. I like what I see across the board. Every brand has a winner now.:)

StealthViggen
03-16-08, 01:27 AM
This seriously has me thinking. While not as nice as the V2, the projected price of 35 K is very interesting considering you get an LS3.

JimmyH
03-16-08, 01:31 AM
I bet it eats into SRT sales.

jasaero
03-16-08, 02:01 AM
I bet it eats into SRT sales.

For sure. The G8 GT almost took an SRT in and edmunds informal test with a neighbors SRT. The 40 extra horse should easily take it even though it still won't match SRT power. I think a tune will go farther on this by a long way than an SRT though as the LS3 is known to make more than the SRT in the Vette anyhow.

JimmyH
03-16-08, 02:18 AM
how much is the GXP gonna weigh? The SRT has 425 hp, but it's hauling 4300 lbs around IIRC (of course so will the new V I think)

rand49er
03-16-08, 06:49 AM
... Even the typical Pontiac front end is modified and looks like a BMW. ... Very nice car. Don't think I would trade down from my V1 but if I was in the market I'd look real close. I think it will be popular. ...Saw it NAIAS in January and thought the same thing.



I'll give credit where credit is due, but why, why, WHY can't the designers at Pontiac part themselves from the grille nostrils and hood scoops??????? ...Tradition? Had 'em on my '64 Goat. 44 years! Having said that, guess I'd like to see something else, too.



how much is the GXP gonna weigh? ...April C&D has it at 4100 lbs. They mostly liked the car ... I guess. Knowing C&D, had it actually been a Bimmer, the pages would have been sticking together. :rolleyes:

BowenCT
03-16-08, 10:17 AM
Tradition? Had 'em on my '64 Goat. 44 years! Having said that, guess I'd like to see something else, too.




I hear what you are saying, rand. One of my cars that is partially responsible for my V8 fetish was a '89 Pontiac Formula WS6, and my uncle has a '65 Goat that I lust over, so I have some Pontiac love flowing through me. But c'mon guys. I sincerely feel that the trademark "Pontiac styling" of late could hurt the sales of that car. Good looking or not.

Fortunately, I'm sure it wont be long before the Holden conversions hit the marketplace to remedy the problem. Then I'll take one in silver :thumbsup:.

JimmyH
03-16-08, 12:01 PM
Saw it NAIAS in January and thought the same thing.

where were you? you didnt come to hang with the fab four?



April C&D has it at 4100 lbs. They mostly liked the car ... I guess. Knowing C&D, had it actually been a Bimmer, the pages would have been sticking together. :rolleyes:

for sure, the bastards; CD MT and RT should have a big banner on them that says "brought to you by BMW"

RightTurn
03-16-08, 12:21 PM
I sincerely feel that the trademark "Pontiac styling" of late could hurt the sales of that car. Good looking or not.


Agree. It would be nice for the casual observer to be able to tell which model they are looking at. To me, all the Pontiacs look the same. Oh, look...nostril grille...Pontiac. :yawn:

Got5onit
03-16-08, 01:12 PM
I've made this known in other threads but I'm definitely going with the GXP G8. And I've said this 1000 times already, but the Commadore/Zeta platform has held up well for the Aussies with the big HP & Tq numbers.

rand49er
03-16-08, 01:25 PM
... a '65 Goat that I lust over, so I have some Pontiac love flowing through me. ...On that one, they went to a single "scoop" instead of the two "scoops" for the first year. I had the tri-power motor rated at 348 hp, but the '65 GTO with tri-power moved up to 360 hp.

Pontiac love? Yup. My dad was a PMD chassis engineer, mom and dad met there while she worked in salary payroll fresh out of high school and he was a GMI student on work assignment, and I grew up with Pontiac blood runnin' through my veins. Still got a bunch.



where were you? you didnt come to hang with the fab four? ...Yeah, I was already to go and called Tony on his cell and left a msg. When I didn't hear back soon enough, ended up taking my 5-yr-old and went the opposite way to look at wallpaper for a guest-room makeover. Tony called when I was there, 20 miles in the opposite direction :banghead:, and I couldn't drag my son to more things he had no interest in so I begged off. Wished I gone, now, and met all you guys. Hell, you guys are famous in my book! :thumbsup:

CVP33
03-16-08, 04:05 PM
The GXP would be pretty compelling, especially with all the inevitable tuning and hardware upgrades that will ultimately follow. Imagine that same G8 with around 500hp with cam, heads, exhaust and a tune. That would be a hoot. As for a stock GXP catching an SRT8? I don't know where they get their numbers but the SRT's run consistent 12.9's to 13 flats at the track. I hope the GXP can do that. And I love the looks too. Doubt many will convert though, as there's lot's more room in the LX cars vs. the Zeta platform cars.

thebigjimsho
03-16-08, 04:59 PM
The GXP would be pretty compelling, especially with all the inevitable tuning and hardware upgrades that will ultimately follow. Imagine that same G8 with around 500hp with cam, heads, exhaust and a tune. That would be a hoot. As for a stock GXP catching an SRT8? I don't know where they get their numbers but the SRT's run consistent 12.9's to 13 flats at the track. I hope the GXP can do that. And I love the looks too. Doubt many will convert though, as there's lot's more room in the LX cars vs. the Zeta platform cars.The rear seat room of the G8 rivals any LX car I've ever sat in. There was plenty of room. And the seats were far more comfortable than those in Chryslers...

rand49er
03-16-08, 05:06 PM
... SRT's run consistent 12.9's to 13 flats at the track. ...Underrated hp in action. :worship:

CVP33
03-16-08, 06:24 PM
The rear seat room of the G8 rivals any LX car I've ever sat in. There was plenty of room. And the seats were far more comfortable than those in Chryslers...

Bigger than I thought. I kinda like the rear seats, but I don't sit in them much. The fronts, however, are awesome!

G8
Front Head Room: 38.7 in. Front Hip Room: 56.7 in. Front Shoulder Room: 59.1 in. Rear Head Room: 38 in. Rear Shoulder Room: 59.1 in. Rear Hip Room: 58 in. Front Leg Room: 42.2 in. Rear Leg Room: 39.4 in. Luggage Capacity: 17.5 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 18 cu. ft.

LX
Front Head Room: 38.7 in. Front Hip Room: 55.9 in. Front Shoulder Room: 59.4 in. Rear Head Room: 38 in. Rear Shoulder Room: 57.7 in. Rear Hip Room: 55.9 in. Front Leg Room: 41.8 in. Rear Leg Room: 40.2 in. Luggage Capacity: 17.2 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5

CTS NV
03-16-08, 08:53 PM
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/15/new-york-08-preview-2009-pontiac-g8-gxp-packs-402-hp-and-a/

I will admitt it's not a fair fight, but an interesting thing to decide between if you are like me and a V1 owner who uses the car as a primary vehicle and takes road trips with the family in it and such. The G8 GXP should match or exceed the V1 pretty easy and IMHO is actually a little nicer inside judging from the GT. V2 will be a much more exciting car overall, but this G8 is bigger while probably being 200lbs lighter. The larger size though gives it much better rear legroom, much bigger trunk, and more fuel. On top of all that it's going to be WAY cheaper no matter where they each come in. Only large handicap is that US regs don't allow the low placed infotainment screen in the aussie sorced G8 to work as a nav so that option won't be available until they can update the interior and HVAC routings in the cabin. It should have bluetooth though as a 2009 model.

It's a tough call. While I'd rather get a V2, 402hp would actually be an improvement with a more buttoned down rear than the V1. The only downsides would be lack of NAV, lack of other features (hard drive/iPod entertainment systems) and wondering how the Pontiac service department stacks up to Cadillac (doubtful it would be as good).

HiTechRV
03-16-08, 10:06 PM
One of each would be the way to go.

BowenCT
03-16-08, 10:08 PM
....and wondering how the Pontiac service department stacks up to Cadillac (doubtful it would be as good).

I am trying to come up with some witty retort, however I am wondering if perhaps this was written in attempt to stir up a few yuks......??

Signed,

Slightly Confused

CTSV_Rob
03-17-08, 12:01 PM
It all depends on were your located.

JimmyH
03-17-08, 12:17 PM
The rear seat room of the G8 rivals any LX car I've ever sat in. There was plenty of room. And the seats were far more comfortable than those in Chryslers...

Numbers aside, I regularly ride in a vendor's 300. It feels very cramped inside for such a large car.

The Tony Show
03-17-08, 12:39 PM
I am trying to come up with some witty retort, however I am wondering if perhaps this was written in attempt to stir up a few yuks......??

Signed,

Slightly Confused

For every horror story on an Internet forum about a Service Department, there are 40 customers going through the same shop that day who are 100% happy with the experience.

My car's got a few mods on it (headers, cats, UUC, etc..) and not only does my Service Department still do warranty work without hassle, but they were the ones who installed my mods for me.

RightTurn
03-17-08, 01:02 PM
One of each would be the way to go.

:highfive: Concur.

JimmyH
03-17-08, 01:09 PM
For every horror story on an Internet forum about a Service Department, there are 40 customers going through the same shop that day who are 100% happy with the experience.

My car's got a few mods on it (headers, cats, UUC, etc..) and not only does my Service Department still do warranty work without hassle, but they were the ones who installed my mods for me.

I have stood in line behind some of those "horror story" victims at the dealer. And without fail they are always some nitpick who believes the service departments mission in life is to bow and suck before them.

I have been flatout lied to by my Nissan dealer (and I am a VIP there). But they always fix the problem. Good enough for me.

Katshot
03-17-08, 01:28 PM
Like it or not, most dealerships that I've either worked with directly, or used as a customer, could do MUCH better with respect to adequately diagnosing and repairing cars. I also think that if the mechanics had more direct input from the customers, it would translate into better CSI across the boards since quite often, the service writers don't get the proper info on the RO. And then you also have the company lines:
1. Could not duplicate customer concern/complaint.
2. Performs to manufactures specifications

Those two items show up on more RO's than they should, and it's VERY aggravating to customers.
That said, I doubt the Pontiac service dept. will be any better or worse than the Cadillac ones.

RightTurn
03-17-08, 01:30 PM
:yeah: :golf clap:

RightTurn
03-17-08, 01:31 PM
I have been flatout lied to by my Nissan dealer (and I am a VIP there).

Ooooooooh, Nissan VIP. :worship: We're not worthy.



:lol:

JimmyH
03-17-08, 04:48 PM
no, you are not worthy,
but then, I am no longer a nissan VIP (at least I dont need to be anymore)

BowenCT
03-17-08, 05:38 PM
For every horror story on an Internet forum about a Service Department, there are 40 customers going through the same shop that day who are 100% happy with the experience.

Tony, with all due respect, and I say that sincerely because I read, enjoy and take value in every one of your posts, but the truth of the matter remains that GM service depts. across the board are severely lacking. I know they are not all pitiful, but I can honestly tell you, that in my somewhat limited experience of having bought 4 new GM vehicles in my life, not once, ever, have I left a GM service dept. (multiple dealers) feeling 100% satisfied. I know, I need to find another dealer.

OK, enough of that. Back to the G8/Gen. 2 V.

CVP33
03-17-08, 08:08 PM
Numbers aside, I regularly ride in a vendor's 300. It feels very cramped inside for such a large car.

I agree, the short side windows make the car feel much smaller that it is. However, the numbers don't lie, that G8 is much larger than I thought. Hmmmmmm.

Katshot
03-18-08, 08:00 AM
All too many new cars these days has a high belt line. Looks nice from the outside, and makes the cars easier to meet crash worthiness ratings but IMO, it makes the driving experience less enjoyable. You feel like you're sitting in a bucket. Plus on most of these cars, it's virtually impossible to drive with your arm resting on top of the door. Beyond that, I think the interior of the 300 is cramped "feeling" is also due to the huge center tunnel. Love the car, but really aren't fond of the interior.

JimmyH
03-18-08, 11:12 AM
300 is cramped "feeling" is also due to the huge center tunnel. Love the car, but really aren't fond of the interior.

yeah that too, I could not believe how much bigger the bell housing must be compared to the CTS. Now the one I was in is AWD, but I cant imagine the chassis being different for AWD or RWD.

atdeneve
03-18-08, 12:04 PM
S'got the V2 wheels. Looks like an exact copy.

Front 3/4 shot looks like it has the same exact shape as the Gen 2 CTS. Just new surface details/design cues on top of the same shape.

http:///jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/03/medium_2334164464_e437d096a6_o.jpg

Take off the surface details and slap that signature CTS grille on there and ya got yourself the Caddy.

I mean, the car looks beautiful and I'm not hatin the performance potential, at all, but I hate it when things are simply rehashed across sister brands.

But then again, I guess designs are pretty much echoed even across different manufacturers. Not too fond of that. Get's old. Bleh.

Nice car though.

Katshot
03-18-08, 12:18 PM
Actually, if you look at them both side by side, there's quite a bit of differences in the design. The most obvious is the lower beltline of the Pontiac. Funny how they used the same wheels though.

Got5onit
03-18-08, 12:21 PM
S'got the V2 wheels. Looks like an exact copy.

Front 3/4 shot looks like it has the same exact shape as the Gen 2 CTS. Just new surface details/design cues on top of the same shape.

http:///jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/03/medium_2334164464_e437d096a6_o.jpg

Take off the surface details and slap that signature CTS grille on there and ya got yourself the Caddy.

I mean, the car looks beautiful and I'm not hatin the performance potential, at all, but I hate it when things are simply rehashed across sister brands.

But then again, I guess designs are pretty much echoed even across different manufacturers. Not too fond of that. Get's old. Bleh.

Nice car though.

The thing looks exactly the HSV Commadore, to me. Well, probably 'cause it is!! LOL!!

I love it and will be getting one in 2010. :cool2:

Katshot
03-18-08, 12:29 PM
It IS a sharp-looking car alright. But then, I've always liked Pontiacs and Holdens too.

JimmyH
03-18-08, 12:48 PM
It has already been determined that they are not the same wheels.

Jpjr
03-18-08, 12:50 PM
Tony, with all due respect, and I say that sincerely because I read, enjoy and take value in every one of your posts, but the truth of the matter remains that GM service depts. across the board are severely lacking. I know they are not all pitiful, but I can honestly tell you, that in my somewhat limited experience of having bought 4 new GM vehicles in my life, not once, ever, have I left a GM service dept. (multiple dealers) feeling 100% satisfied. I know, I need to find another dealer.

OK, enough of that. Back to the G8/Gen. 2 V.

Service is lacking for one main reason: TOO MANY DEALERS

Get rid of half the dealers accross the country to regain step with demand and the number of good mechanics will go up at every one. Efficiency will go up and overall satisfaction will go up.

But, none of the dealers want to leave thier profession. The same change that needed to occur in car building needs to occur in car selling. It's no easier a decision to downsize.

JimmyH
03-18-08, 12:57 PM
I am not sure I completely agree with that, but a very good point nonetheless.

Katshot
03-18-08, 01:08 PM
Service is lacking for one main reason: TOO MANY DEALERS

Get rid of half the dealers accross the country to regain step with demand and the number of good mechanics will go up at every one. Efficiency will go up and overall satisfaction will go up.

But, none of the dealers want to leave thier profession. The same change that needed to occur in car building needs to occur in car selling. It's no easier a decision to downsize.

I fail to see your logic. How do you support those statements?

Katshot
03-18-08, 01:11 PM
It has already been determined that they are not the same wheels.

Took me a minute but yeah, you're right. But damn, they're close.

JimmyH
03-18-08, 01:20 PM
I fail to see your logic. How do you support those statements?

same reason pitching sucks in MLB now. too many teams means not enough talent to go around.

JimmyH
03-18-08, 01:21 PM
Took me a minute but yeah, you're right. But damn, they're close.

No credit to me, I just remember reading it in another thread.

BowenCT
03-18-08, 01:24 PM
I like this version the best :thumbsup:.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/news/auto_shows/2008_new_york_nyias_auto_show_auto_shows/production_debuts/2010_pontiac_g8_sport_truck_auto_shows/2010_pontiac_g8_sport_truck/2010_pontiac_g8_sport_truck_7/1259483-1-eng-US/2010_pontiac_g8_sport_truck_7_gallery_image_large. jpg

JimmyH
03-18-08, 01:29 PM
just what the world needs :lol:

BowenCT
03-18-08, 01:36 PM
just what the world needs :lol:

Get used to seeing them, it's coming....

CTSV_Rob
03-18-08, 01:49 PM
They didn't last before, Not sure it's a wise move to bring them back but we will see.

The discomforts of a truck, The handling of a truck (weight ratio), the storage of a car...

They will sell a few but I don't see them taking off.

BowenCT
03-18-08, 02:05 PM
The discomforts of a truck, The handling of a truck (weight ratio), the storage of a car...

They will sell a few but I don't see them taking off.

Or one could say, the practicality of a pick-up bed, the driving dynamics of a car, and the performance of a sports car.

Regardless, you're probably right, they won't sell a ton of them but I'm sure they already know that. That's part of the appeal to me. Apparently it has been a success in Australia wearing the Holden badge. They even have a racing series for them and the Ford counterpart.

JimmyH
03-18-08, 03:20 PM
and the performance of a sports car.

:umno:

BowenCT
03-18-08, 03:40 PM
:umno:

You sure about that there Optimus Prime? So, then the performance numbers for the G8 aren't sporty enough for you? It will surely run circles around a 3.6 CTS, that I am confident.

CTSV_Rob
03-18-08, 04:09 PM
Or one could say, the practicality of a pick-up bed, the driving dynamics of a car, and the performance of a sports car.




:umno:


You sure about that there Optimus Prime? So, then the performance numbers for the G8 aren't sporty enough for you? It will surely run circles around a 3.6 CTS, that I am confident.

OK now I'm confused. I thought the G8 was a sedan, are you telling me it's a El Camino look alike? or both?

BowenCT
03-18-08, 04:13 PM
Well, yes the G8 is a sedan -- try to keep up here, this could get confusing -- and yes, the G8 sport truck concept could be, I suppose, referred to as a pseudo-El Camino.

CTSV_Rob
03-18-08, 04:22 PM
I'm sure the truck willl do nicely in a straight line and probably OK in the Oval's but when it comes to a full road course I think it will have troubles keeping up. This is just a guess but with most of the weight forward it will negatively effect the handling and in the turns it will get passed by mostly everything.

So if you statement is it will handle well for a truck then I agree, if you say it will handle as well as say a stock first gen V I would tend to disagree.

BowenCT
03-18-08, 04:35 PM
I'm sure the truck willl do nicely in a straight line and probably OK in the Oval's but when it comes to a full road course I think it will have troubles keeping up. This is just a guess but with most of the weight forward it will negatively effect the handling and in the turns it will get passed by mostly everything.

So if you statement is it will handle well for a truck then I agree, if you say it will handle as well as say a stock first gen V I would tend to disagree.

I don't disagree with any of that. Do I think it will handle as well as a gen. 1 V, of course not.

Let's remember though, F-body cars of the past had a weight distribution pretty close to 60/40, and while they weren't shattering records in the handling department, they were more than competent. My guess is the truck should be in the 60/40 ballpark.

Katshot
03-18-08, 05:07 PM
So you say that a WS6 Trans Am had a 60/40 weight distribution? That would be surprising. Hell, the old IROC cars handled fairly well too.
I think an updated El Camino would probably be great for it's utility but I doubt it would be great as any kind of sports car. Any rear suspension that would offer a reasonable degree of "utility" would not be very good as a road car as far as handling, and obviously the opposite is also true. Any setup that would produce good handling and road manners, probably wouldn't be too useful as a work truck. Hence why virtually every sport truck has a VERY limited load rating.

CTSV_Rob
03-18-08, 05:18 PM
I don't disagree with any of that. Do I think it will handle as well as a gen. 1 V, of course not.

Let's remember though, F-body cars of the past had a weight distribution pretty close to 60/40, and while they weren't shattering records in the handling department, they were more than competent. My guess is the truck should be in the 60/40 ballpark.
Agreed.

I had a Firebird that I thought handled pretty well after all of the suspension tweaks (New struts, Springs, Pan Hard rod, Upper and Lower control arms, sway bars, shocks...). Was a fun car for sure but it was a bit of a rough ride and with the solid axle it wasn't as good in the turns as the V. Good car for it's time though and it's been a while so I don't remember the ratio but it wasn't ideal. It was a good all around car but it is amazing how much better the suspension is on these newer cars. I drove the V and the comfort was far better then the Firebird and the handling was as well. I have done very little to it so far (sway bars) and wow what a ride.

If they put a little technology into the Pseudo El Camino it should handle fairly well and I wouldn't be surprised a bit if it out handled the old Firebird. Now it won't be much of a hauler if they do that but it should be a fun truck to drive.

BowenCT
03-18-08, 05:27 PM
So you say that a WS6 Trans Am had a 60/40 weight distribution? That would be surprising. Hell, the old IROC cars handled fairly well too.

There he is....only a matter of time.....

I don't know Kat, it's probably not 60/40 exactly. I seem to think a 3rd gen. F-body was like 58/42 or something close to that. You like Google, I'm sure you can dig it up.

JimmyH
03-18-08, 07:38 PM
You sure about that there Optimus Prime? So, then the performance numbers for the G8 aren't sporty enough for you? It will surely run circles around a 3.6 CTS, that I am confident.

I could only wish I had the wisdom, courage, and boldness of Optimus Prime.

As for the G8amino, sport SEDAN maybe, SPORTSCAR no. There is a big difference.

JimmyH
03-18-08, 07:39 PM
F-bodies handled ok. Weight dist and suspension settings aside, it had a rubber chassis. You can tweak a car all you want, but you are only going to improve it so much. Handling begins with the chassis.

CTSV_Rob
03-18-08, 07:42 PM
Changed mine out to urethene.

Lot a stamped sheet metal stuff you need to get rid of too (excess flex)

JimmyH
03-18-08, 07:53 PM
I dont like urethane. Sounds too much like urethra.

CTSV_Rob
03-18-08, 08:09 PM
:lol:

One works a little better on the suspesion then the other though...

CTS NV
03-18-08, 08:16 PM
Just to clarify my original comment, and speaking for my own service experiences, I don't find the Cadillac technicians any more or less skilled than the BMW technicians I've had for the prior 10 years. The major (obvious) problems get fixed, but consider yourself lucky if an intermittent problem or rattled gets fixed the first time. On the other hand, every service visit requiring a substantial wait has gotten me into a new Cadillac loaner, the waiting lounge has wi-fi access, flat screen TVs, comfy seats, etc, and the service advisors regularly inquire about my satisfaction.

Sounds like the experience varies greatly across dealers...but somehow the Pontiac experience gives me thoughts of being stuffed in a small room with 50 angry people and a 20year old out-of-order coffee machine... or worse yet, a 3yr old Sunbird or Aztec to drive as a loaner.



Tony, with all due respect, and I say that sincerely because I read, enjoy and take value in every one of your posts, but the truth of the matter remains that GM service depts. across the board are severely lacking. I know they are not all pitiful, but I can honestly tell you, that in my somewhat limited experience of having bought 4 new GM vehicles in my life, not once, ever, have I left a GM service dept. (multiple dealers) feeling 100% satisfied. I know, I need to find another dealer.

OK, enough of that. Back to the G8/Gen. 2 V.

BowenCT
03-18-08, 11:03 PM
I apologize for the large picture, but I thought since we were on the topic, I'd share it. This is the Holden version of the G8 sport truck. The model at the top of the food chain is called an 'SS V'. Notice the similarity of the "V" badge on the tailgate:

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/images/holden-ve-ute-2-big.jpg

CTSV_Rob
03-19-08, 12:10 AM
Cool shot.

JimmyH
03-19-08, 02:00 PM
I know there is a place for that kind of vehicle. That place is not here.
I am not feelin it.

The Tony Show
03-19-08, 02:13 PM
The place for that is in my garage- I need a truck every once in a while but refuse to buy one due to the crappy handling and ride. An El-Camino-ish, car based vehicle with a decent size bed and an LSx motor would be on my short list.

thebigjimsho
03-19-08, 02:40 PM
People bought huge SUVs when they didn't need them. Part due to style, part due to fuel economy, they buy smaller crossovers. At this time and age, I wouldn't be shocked if they sold a few G8 Caminos...

CTSV_Rob
03-19-08, 05:26 PM
But would you buy the granny apple green?

JimmyH
03-19-08, 09:36 PM
The place for that is in my garage- I need a truck every once in a while but refuse to buy one due to the crappy handling and ride. An El-Camino-ish, car based vehicle with a decent size bed and an LSx motor would be on my short list.

I would rather have a third vehicle for that purpose.
you have an SRX, that should suffice for hauling purposes.
Get urself a big sheet of thick plastic for the dirty stuff. we keep one folded up in the pilot.

HiTechRV
03-21-08, 04:47 PM
I'd love the mpg and acceleration of a car based pickup.

JimmyH
03-21-08, 06:17 PM
ridgeline

BowenCT
03-21-08, 06:51 PM
ridgeline

Isn't the Ridgeline based off the Pilot platform? And last I checked, the Ridgeline wasn't breaking any records in the acceleration department. Nice truck, came very close to buying one a couple years ago.

Jpjr
03-22-08, 11:00 AM
the more i look at the G8, the more i am having flashbacks to the GTO. everyone, especially the car rags, were 200% bullish on it, and when the public decided that it was ugly everyone turned their backs. i think the stupid pontiac nostrils and front end fascia may kill this car, and the stupid truck idea only reinforces the gawdy image. would bmw ever turn their 3 or 5 series into a truck? why would GM want to do that? who bought the SSR? bob lutz is usually right but sometimes he clearly has senior moments.

JimmyH
03-22-08, 11:41 AM
Isn't the Ridgeline based off the Pilot platform? And last I checked, the Ridgeline wasn't breaking any records in the acceleration department. Nice truck, came very close to buying one a couple years ago.

I know, my point is the ridgeline is car-based (unibody.) Expect to see more and more pickups going that way.

The Pilot is very very nice, and very very boring. But it does what it was designed to better than most. I expect the Ridgeline is the same.

thebigjimsho
03-22-08, 12:50 PM
the more i look at the G8, the more i am having flashbacks to the GTO. everyone, especially the car rags, were 200% bullish on it, and when the public decided that it was ugly everyone turned their backs. i think the stupid pontiac nostrils and front end fascia may kill this car, and the stupid truck idea only reinforces the gawdy image. would bmw ever turn their 3 or 5 series into a truck? why would GM want to do that? who bought the SSR? bob lutz is usually right but sometimes he clearly has senior moments.BMW, as well as every German make, strips their 3 and 5 series for taxis. They converted their 3 and 5 series to SUVs, and they make 3 and 5 series wagons, that have only been shunned in the States. If they're already making Holden pickups, it won't cost much to make G8 pickups so they aren't spending a ton of dough on it. And if it succeeds, why not? They'll be virtually unique in a new niche market...

Jpjr
03-23-08, 11:47 AM
BMW, as well as every German make, strips their 3 and 5 series for taxis. They converted their 3 and 5 series to SUVs, and they make 3 and 5 series wagons, that have only been shunned in the States. If they're already making Holden pickups, it won't cost much to make G8 pickups so they aren't spending a ton of dough on it. And if it succeeds, why not? They'll be virtually unique in a new niche market...

you are right on the wagons, but for some reason when i see them i don't get the same gawdy image as i would of another flashback retro truck (in obnoxious paint above) that i argue most people think looks silly and would never own.

but that isn't the big problem with the G8. the big problem is the front end, which screams cheap claddy pontiac. does anyone like those nostrils? do americans really crave a useless hood scoop? and what about the glaring oversights, such as no navigation. the last 3 vehicles i have owned have had NAV, i can't believe they would bring this car to market without it. if you are giong to do things, do them right.

CTSV_Rob
03-23-08, 03:15 PM
Only liked the snout's on the Firehawk. (Functional Ram air)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/30th_Anniversary_Trans_Am.jpg/200px-30th_Anniversary_Trans_Am.jpg

dqw1
03-23-08, 06:12 PM
Pontiac needs to change their badge.

CTS27
03-23-08, 09:40 PM
And no HIDs... Why not?

jasaero
03-23-08, 11:58 PM
Nav is missing mostly because the screen in the Holdens is too low for use regulations. They can do navigation from that low position in most countries, but I guess US regs require the screen closer to the top of the console and the HVAC ducts are there on the holden. So it would have taken some pretty major center stack redesign to comply with US regs for Nav. It is possible the holden hardware for the nav could be loaded with US maps and sold in aftermarket though?? Not sure how easy the install would be though??

trukk
03-24-08, 11:16 AM
JJC0nzzm4xk

HUZZAH! Love the Spy Hunter Commercial!


I'll give credit where credit is due, but why, why, WHY can't the designers at Pontiac part themselves from the grille nostrils and hood scoops???????

Soooooooo played out!

AMEN!


I hear what you are saying, rand. One of my cars that is partially responsible for my V8 fetish was a '89 Pontiac Formula WS6, and my uncle has a '65 Goat that I lust over, so I have some Pontiac love flowing through me. But c'mon guys. I sincerely feel that the trademark "Pontiac styling" of late could hurt the sales of that car. Good looking or not.

Fortunately, I'm sure it wont be long before the Holden conversions hit the marketplace to remedy the problem. Then I'll take one in silver :thumbsup:.

DOUBLE AMEN!

Nothing says 'cheap pontiac' like tacked on looking air-vents and excesive body works. While the G8, may do it more modestly than in the past, Pontiac is just known for bandaiding gaudy crap onto unispiring looking cars.

Just like Cadillac made a major departure from tradition with the CTS, Pontiac needs to do the same with it's future cars.

-Chris

Katshot
03-24-08, 01:30 PM
I think Pontiac is in a no-win situation in some ways. Most bash them for too much tack-on pieces, and then when they take most of them off a car (like the GTO, they get bashed for making a boring-looking car. Hard to please everyone. Personally, I hate the idea of non-functional scoops but if you ask me whether I think they have at least "some" value strictly as an decorative piece, I'd have to say yes.

The Tony Show
03-24-08, 01:59 PM
If I bought a G8, the first order of business would be to debadge it and make the hood scoop functional (nothing a dremel and some stainless grill mesh couldn't fix, right? :))

NormV
03-24-08, 02:24 PM
05 and later GTO had rubber plugs behind the twin nostrils that popped right out. Just need some plumbing! :)


Norm


If I bought a G8, the first order of business would be to debadge it and make the hood scoop functional (nothing a dremel and some stainless grill mesh couldn't fix, right? :))

Katshot
03-24-08, 03:40 PM
There's a lot more to making a functional scoop than simply letting it open up into the engine compartment.

JimmyH
03-24-08, 03:54 PM
If I bought a G8, the first order of business would be to debadge it and make the hood scoop functional (nothing a dremel and some stainless grill mesh couldn't fix, right? :))

aluminum siding for good measure

JimmyH
03-24-08, 03:55 PM
Remember when one year Pontiac decided to remove all body cladding from the Grand Am? I thought it looked good

The Tony Show
03-24-08, 04:26 PM
There's a lot more to making a functional scoop than simply letting it open up into the engine compartment.

Obviously, but while it may not be 100% efficient, at least opening it up reduces the poser factor by 100%. :lol:

AlBundy
03-24-08, 06:12 PM
Looks lik a big Grand Prix to me.

thebigjimsho
03-24-08, 08:42 PM
I have no problems with the styling cues and find the G8 quite appealing. Really, what's with all the bashing?

AlBundy
03-24-08, 09:00 PM
It's not bashing. Every since I seen it that's what I thought. Maybe if seen in person it might change my mind. The STS looks like a bigger CTS as far as I'm concerned.

JimmyH
03-24-08, 10:14 PM
I do think the GXP (or whatever it is they showed) a little busy on the styling front. But it is a nice looking car.

Katshot
03-25-08, 05:48 AM
It's not bashing. Every since I seen it that's what I thought. Maybe if seen in person it might change my mind. The STS looks like a bigger CTS as far as I'm concerned.

If the crowds around it at the New York show were any indication, the car has generated a great deal of interest at least. Personally, I thought it looked great but it could be the paint plays a major part. That paint job looked gorgeous under those lights.

NormV
11-25-08, 09:47 PM
GXP is half a minute off the V2, unoffcially. :). Not a bad alternative for the price if you have to have an automatic. The GXP shares quite a few performance upgrades from the V2.


http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/25/pontiac-g8-gxp-rumored-to-lap-nurburgring-in-8-30/

Norm

JEM
11-25-08, 11:04 PM
US regs don't allow the low placed infotainment screen in the aussie sorced G8 to work as a nav

As of when? The "low placed infotainment screen" in my old M5 works just fine as a nav.

I suspect this isn't a "US regs" thing, but maybe a "GM lawyers" thing like the GTO gas tank was.

Start looking for whatever nav electronics the Aussies put in the Commodores they export to the Mideast, see if any Aussie aftermarket pieces are usable in the US, etc.

The Commodore/G8 is a very nice product, the parking-brake handle is cheesy and the CTS interior is better-trimmed, but the G8 is much roomier, I'd argue it's a better overall shape than the CTS (a bit lower beltline and the outward visibility is a bit better), they're both a little overdramatic in the nose detailing...