: Perfect Solution for GM to get back on Top!



03EscaladeAWD
05-27-03, 07:03 PM
Maybe GM will have a miracle thought and actually make a V8 RWD Sedan and will be sold to rappers and athletes five times more than the Escalade. It will have to be the "Perfect Car" that EVERYONE likes. It will have to come first in all car comparisons, have the best performance, (maybe a seconds generation LS6) have a non-boatlike suspension that everyone except me hates, it should rule the aftermarket, its should have the utility of an SUV yet not the excess room, AWD as an option like an SUV, its should look attractive and different, not love it or hate it, and not too extreme like a wanna-be Ferrari, yet SOMEHOW have a cost in the $30,000 range. It should be available in wagon form, and should be a platform that all of GM's divisions should use. This is what GM needs to rule the car market like they did back then. Soccer-moms will tell everyone how great it is, boy-racers will tell their friends about its performance, the North-easterners will tell everyone how it performs better in snow than their Kia SUV, rappers will tell other rappers how they can put TVs in more places than they can in an Escalade, like in the arm rests and everyone else will be telling their friends how their $35,000 Sedan costs less than a BMW which cant handle as good and has a more harsh ride. This car would be best for the Buick divison IMO. And since Buick competes with Lexus, it should come with standard navigation like Lexus. Also it would need more wood than the current Buicks. I'm no Bob Lutz and hopefully a lot of people would agree that THIS is the car America wants, and its the car GM should use to save people from the SUV phenomenom. Yes, I have two SUVs, a Jeep and an Escalade. I regret buying the Jeep and we wanted an All-American Cadillac plus the utility so we bought the Escalade. SInce it costs so much, we cant trade in the Jeep right now, which is torture. Phew that was long! (I copied this from a reply I made at www.gmforums.com)

Brett
05-27-03, 07:13 PM
Well, I think Cadillac is addressing a number of your requests, with the CTS, SRX, '05 STS

CTS: 35k Sedan
SRX: a "wagon"
'05 STS: bigger CTS in theory

All built on the Sigma platform

Devil_concours
05-27-03, 10:36 PM
when was gm not on the top? ;)

Katshot
05-27-03, 10:48 PM
Currently, Ford is the largest selling manufacturer in the world (at least I read it somewhere recently).

Brett
05-27-03, 10:54 PM
Doesnt Ford outsell Chevy, but GM overall outsells Ford/Linc/Merc/PAG?

AKPsiMC03
05-27-03, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by Brett
Doesnt Ford outsell Chevy, but GM overall outsells Ford/Linc/Merc/PAG?

nope, im pretty sure ford won in 2002 by a few hundred vehicles

Ralph
05-28-03, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by Katshot
Currently, Ford is the largest selling manufacturer in the world (at least I read it somewhere recently).

I read that GM is the largest Corporation in the world. I think Ford sells a lot more trucks.

Ralph
05-28-03, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by Devil_concours
when was gm not on the top? ;)

Even my Cadillac dealer told me that when Lincoln came out with the 1998 Town Car, it was the "first time in 50 years that Lincoln outsold Cadillacs." You asked, you got!;)

Elvis
05-28-03, 10:36 AM
Throw out the fleet sales and Ford drops way down the list.

Brett
05-28-03, 11:11 AM
http://www.automotivedigest.com/research/research_results.asp?sigstats_id=328

you gotta do the math yourself, but dont worry its pretty easy, GM is King of the Hill by a million cars or so. According to GM its been that way since the 30's.

Devil_concours
05-28-03, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Ralph
Even my Cadillac dealer told me that when Lincoln came out with the 1998 Town Car, it was the "first time in 50 years that Lincoln outsold Cadillacs." You asked, you got!;)

that's not GM v. Ford Motor corp

Katshot
05-28-03, 06:55 PM
In Ford vs. GM it's definately still GM:

GLOBAL VEHICLE SALES - 2002

GM = 8,504,434
FORD = 6,819,594

NORTH AMERICAN SALES - 2002

GM = 5,569,847
FORD = 4,061,396

I must have been reading an article that was comparing by "BRAND" and not "MANUFACTURER".

elwesso
05-28-03, 10:19 PM
There are only 3 fords i would ever look at getting..... Lincoln LS, lincoln mark VIII, Mercury Grand Marquis.....

Night Wolf
05-28-03, 11:05 PM
I love GM, always have... but on the same note, I don't dislike Ford, or even Dodge..... my father owns a few Fords (he is a crazy Pontiac fan though, like 12 differnt cars from '57-'99) but I just never mind Ford, some of their cars are crappy, but every brand has that. Dodge is ok too, I like Chrystler, but the new Ram w/ Hemi is, IMO currently the best truck you can get.

I don't like Lincon though.... I am a Cadillac guy, although some in the 70's were nice. but I am not one to dislike Ford or Mopar just becuase I like GM

Ralph
05-29-03, 02:13 AM
Right, I meant or should have said Lincoln VS Cadillac sales. THOSE numbers would interest me. Good numbers Kat, but I would like to know the sales of CAD VS LINC. PS before I got the Caddy I was totally in love with the new Town Car. I don't like the Cartier rims this year, they look like they are off a horse and buggy wagon. Also, Lincoln doesn't have anything like ONSTAR, but a dealer told me they will be getting something next year.

Brett
05-29-03, 09:40 AM
Cadillac - 179,876

Lincoln - 136,386

Thats from automotive digest, and is for 2002. I believe it only covers domestic sales.

Katshot
05-29-03, 11:06 AM
FROM THE 2003 AUTOMOTIVE NEWS MARKET DATA BOOK:

2002 U.S. SALES:

CAD = 199,748
LINC. = 150,057

Night Wolf
05-29-03, 04:09 PM
IMO it is hard to compare Ford vs. Gm.... GM owns ALOT more subdivsions then Ford etc... across all types of platforms.... then again Ford brand does make alot of differnt things.....

domestic vs. domestic dosn't get me going that much, I like to see domestic vs. import, becuase as long as more domestics are being sold here in the US then imports, I am happy.

Katshot
05-29-03, 04:48 PM
U.S. Car Sales Market Share Analysis
(Taken from 2003 Automotive News Market Data Book)

2001
Total BIG 3 = 49.5
Total Japan = 33.2
Total Europe = 11.5

2002
Total BIG 3 = 46.7
Total Japan = 35.3
Total Europe = 12.4

Remember that the "BIG 3" isn't "ALL-AMERICAN" anymore and these numbers start to look scarey.
And unfortunately, this is a trend that has been in place for several years.
Fortunately, truck sales helps boost the numbers but even THEY are slipping :(

Brett
05-29-03, 04:52 PM
its so complex now, trying to figure out import or domestic. I mean the Big 3 isnt really the Big 3 anymore even. And a lot of those imports are made here.

Katshot
05-29-03, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Brett
its so complex now, trying to figure out import or domestic. I mean the Big 3 isnt really the Big 3 anymore even. And a lot of those imports are made here.

That's true. And even some brands have import and domestics mixed together so you can't even go just by brand TOTALLY.

Brett
05-29-03, 05:02 PM
yeah, like you're a good american if you buy a pontiac vibe, but your un-american if you buy a toyota matrix. It's very hard to figure out, i buy what I like

Night Wolf
05-29-03, 07:29 PM
yeah, a person I know has a '94 Sentra, it is made in Texas, but the same can't be said for domestic cars....

..... I guess I am just a GM guy.....some imports are kinda nice, I really don't like Honda for too many things, aToyota is ok, I like the Tacoma, but anything else and I would get a F-series, or new Ram (no, I would just get the Ram) MB is ok... they make alot of cars in the $80k-$100k range, I really don't care for BMW, but I prefer Cadillac...... onlything is, if someone wanted to spend $100k on a real nice car, Cadillac was out of the question, while MB had quite a few options.....although that will soon change.

Brett
05-29-03, 09:48 PM
Heres one way they are trying to get back on top


http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/28/news/companies/gm/index.htm

Ralph
05-30-03, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by Brett
Cadillac - 179,876

Lincoln - 136,386

Thats from automotive digest, and is for 2002. I believe it only covers domestic sales.

Glad to see GM on top, but my dealer must have meant the 1998 Town Car, that year, got those numbers, this is interesting??:cool:

Katshot
05-30-03, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by Brett
Heres one way they are trying to get back on top


http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/28/news/companies/gm/index.htm

Sorry, but based on the BS I've been going through over the last few months concerning my wife's Denali and GMC dealers and customer service, they have NO INTENTION to "improve communications with customers".

GM is bogged-down in bureaucratic BS that has kept them unable/unwilling to take a common-sense approach to problem solving. Any customer with an ounce of common sense will be TOTALLY frustrated whenever they deal with GM dealers and/or customer service agents.

03EscaladeAWD
05-30-03, 10:10 AM
GMC is making a lot of sales wit the rich soccer moms who buy the Yukon. Here, at least.

Ralph
05-31-03, 03:13 AM
Have you guys heard about this. I don't know if you get the channel "Prime" but they mentioned GM's new honesty campaign of quality. Basically they have admitted that all the cars they made in the past were NOT good quality. They specifically mentioned the GM X-car of 1980-85, and the Chevette. I need more info on this but if they knew they made bad quality cars in the past, why did they not try to improve them. I think what they said is a big blow to anyone who defends a GM car against a foreign make. Is it a good thing to say "WE WERE BAD" Is this smart? I mean all car companies make some lemons, right?! It is fact that to sue for bad quality or defects that the Statute of Limitations says you have a certain amount of time to sue. Now it is too late after the admission. This implies that NOW they will start making REAL quality products. The exception is, however, the Cadillac manufacturing, and a Chevy plant in Canada!! Has anyone heard anything about this, as I've mentioned I don't have all the facts but this concerned me! I know for sure the name of the program was called "Money Wise." PS they mentioned the new "Overnight Campaign" also, where you can take a new GM car home and bring it back the next day, sort of like Saturn, you can buy it and return it within a month if you don't like it.

Ralph
05-31-03, 03:30 AM
OOPS, sorry, I didn't click on your link Kat, and now I look the fool. I see you guys must know about this. Disregard the above!!