: Jag XF or CTS-V??



Clintonwmills
03-02-08, 01:25 AM
I currently Drive an STS-v. I love the car. Before this one I drove a CTS-V. Great car as well. My STS-V is up in March and I have been looking at the new CTS-V for a while now. This has always been exactly want i wanted next. After reading about it, it is awesome! Now when it is time to turn my car in I do not want to wait!! I have been seriously considering getting the Jaguar XF. I need your guys opinion?? I can't make up my mind. I can get the XF next week or wait until September to get the V. I am kind of torn. Not sure if it is just the excitement of getting a new car that is making me want the Jag now. I have never really drove a Jag and think it would be nice to try something outside of the GM family. Of course I would get the 420 hp supercharged version. am i crazy to even consider this? I was thinking I could drive the Jag for 2 years then get the V when they have the PTM option is available. If you havent seen the new XF check it out and let me know.

I am wondering what the stock 1/4 mile times will be with the regular tires and all.

Thoughts please!!!

BLACK_CTSV
03-02-08, 01:41 AM
It's tough to say without having seen the Jag. The pics look cool, but you never know. I don't want to wait, either - I'm thinking about the C63.

rand49er
03-02-08, 05:06 AM
What would you do till September if you stayed with GM?

SRT8/BMW
03-02-08, 07:18 AM
tough call. Both are beautiful. Just saw a jag xf here two weeks ago, and actually got to "kind of run " against it. He was a t a red light with open road in front of him, and I was right behind him. He looked in his rearview at me and I knew he was going as soon as light turned. I was ready. He nailed it and so did I a millisecond later. They ran even for the first few hundred yards, but then I had to brake cause I was gaining on his back bumper. He turned into sub and gave me thumbs up.

Just a question of taste/mood. I have never felt the need to be the fastest...lets be honest..other than at the track, how often can you really use the HP in these 420 plus cars. With either car, you will own a magnificent, pretty rare vehicle.

also..this may sound crazy, but you should drive the jag, and then drive the 08 cts edi 3.6. Thats what got me hooked inot the new V.. NO comparison- -I know- - but if Caddy can make the cts-v an improvement of the feel of that regular cts by as wide a margin as I think..then I am sold. That car was spectacular in feel/handlingb and interior fitment.

CIWS
03-02-08, 08:39 AM
Plus remember Cadillac is talking about starting production in Sept. How soon the cars will get to the dealerships in what numbers after that is an unknown, they're saying "available in Q4". The first run 06 STS-Vs didn't make it to the dealerships until Feb 06. Most dealerships don't even know at this point what their allotment will be initially. If your local dealership is only going to get one or two a month, how long will it be before you get the one you want ? The first ones may come fully loaded or just base level. I know my local dealership already has several long time customers waiting on the car to come in to buy it and these guys are millionaires who buy lots of cars from them. Only a fool would think they will not be the first ones to be taken care of before any "Joe" on a waiting list.

NormV
03-02-08, 08:57 AM
The automatic transmission owners looking for 400-500+ HP are going have quite a selection of 4-doors in the $60K range.

E65 for $85 compard to the S8 for $100 was the deal! C63 was on a turntable and really turned the heads of my 30-40 year old friends. 0-60 mph in 3.9!


The new Jaguar HK might be enough with just it's looks on the show floor with 420 hp in the non-R version. Gorgeous car up close and far away. The CTS at Cleveland looked mundane and difficult to tell the difference between it and the stodgy STS. I tried to explain the difference to friends... The CTS had it going on on the road with a nice stout chiseled and muscular look. Interior maybe better to look at but I saw a number of 195+ lbs looked stuff in it and the pass side footwell is almost gone!

No one was around the Lexus IS-F turn table as the lady chattered to no one.

Norm

Clintonwmills
03-02-08, 12:29 PM
What would you do till September if you stayed with GM?


I would buy a CTS right now and give it to my dad in Nov when his car comes up. Then get the V.

Clintonwmills
03-02-08, 12:31 PM
tough call. Both are beautiful. Just saw a jag xf here two weeks ago, and actually got to "kind of run " against it. He was a t a red light with open road in front of him, and I was right behind him. He looked in his rearview at me and I knew he was going as soon as light turned. I was ready. He nailed it and so did I a millisecond later. They ran even for the first few hundred yards, but then I had to brake cause I was gaining on his back bumper. He turned into sub and gave me thumbs up.

Just a question of taste/mood. I have never felt the need to be the fastest...lets be honest..other than at the track, how often can you really use the HP in these 420 plus cars. With either car, you will own a magnificent, pretty rare vehicle.

also..this may sound crazy, but you should drive the jag, and then drive the 08 cts edi 3.6. Thats what got me hooked inot the new V.. NO comparison- -I know- - but if Caddy can make the cts-v an improvement of the feel of that regular cts by as wide a margin as I think..then I am sold. That car was spectacular in feel/handlingb and interior fitment.

I have driven a cts non-edi. Very nice. Not what I am looking for in power, but very nice. I am going to go to Nashville (an hour way) to test drive the Jag before I make any decisions. Thanks for the info.

Clintonwmills
03-02-08, 12:34 PM
Plus remember Cadillac is talking about starting production in Sept. How soon the cars will get to the dealerships in what numbers after that is an unknown, they're saying "available in Q4". The first run 06 STS-Vs didn't make it to the dealerships until Feb 06. Most dealerships don't even know at this point what their allotment will be initially. If your local dealership is only going to get one or two a month, how long will it be before you get the one you want ? The first ones may come fully loaded or just base level. I know my local dealership already has several long time customers waiting on the car to come in to buy it and these guys are millionaires who buy lots of cars from them. Only a fool would think they will not be the first ones to be taken care of before any "Joe" on a waiting list.


I thought they are taking orders in June/July and released in Sept? In the past our local dealer doesn't get many of these cars. I always have to fly to Detroit to get them. Then I drive it 500 miles home (Break in period is up :)) So I am fine traveling to get it.

CIWS
03-02-08, 12:52 PM
According to the local dealer they are still saying production starts in Sept. But they think they'll start before that.

concorso
03-02-08, 01:07 PM
Clinton, unless Im horribly wrong, isnt the XFR going to be a 2009 model? Which means you WOULDN"T be able to get one right now? Sure you can get the XF right now, but you can get the CTS right now too...

XF undercuts the 5 series and E class in price, just like the CTS does, tho not to the same extent. Both look great, but unless Jaguar has done some major improving on the s-type platform, the new XF wont be the handler the V will be. The XF has a pretty horrible gear shift, as well, tho thats not a selling point...

Clintonwmills
03-02-08, 02:22 PM
Clinton, unless Im horribly wrong, isnt the XFR going to be a 2009 model? Which means you WOULDN"T be able to get one right now? Sure you can get the XF right now, but you can get the CTS right now too...

XF undercuts the 5 series and E class in price, just like the CTS does, tho not to the same extent. Both look great, but unless Jaguar has done some major improving on the s-type platform, the new XF wont be the handler the V will be. The XF has a pretty horrible gear shift, as well, tho thats not a selling point...


The XF is coming out next week. 420 HP supercharged. The xF-R is the 500hp version.

Clintonwmills
03-02-08, 02:22 PM
According to the local dealer they are still saying production starts in Sept. But they think they'll start before that.

The one thing I have learned though all my car years is; Never listen to your dealer. They have no clue what is going on. I am prety sure Motor Trend said June/July.

CIWS
03-02-08, 04:06 PM
Dealerships should get the word(s) about pricing/options and know when cars have gone into production to place orders. In any event GM's word right now is Sept. production starts.

Mystical_Ice
03-03-08, 02:49 AM
Plus remember Cadillac is talking about starting production in Sept. How soon the cars will get to the dealerships in what numbers after that is an unknown, they're saying "available in Q4".

From what cadillac was saying, production starts this summer

CIWS
03-03-08, 07:51 AM
From what cadillac was saying, production starts this summer

"Cadillac told us that the CTS-V would start production in August as a 2009 model"

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/automobiles/autoshow/14-cts-v.html
--------------------
"Production on the new CTS V-Series will start in September of 2008, and will be limited to about 7000 units annually. "

http://jalopnik.com/cars/new-cars/2009-cadillac-cts+v-305315.php
---------------------

"Production should start in the fall of 2008, according to Priddy, with an annual run of 7500 V Series units is expected. "

http://www.leftlanenews.com/spied-2009-cadillac-cts-v.html
---------------------

JBsZ06
03-03-08, 08:29 PM
I currently Drive an STS-v. I love the car. Before this one I drove a CTS-V. Great car as well. My STS-V is up in March and I have been looking at the new CTS-V for a while now. This has always been exactly want i wanted next. After reading about it, it is awesome! Now when it is time to turn my car in I do not want to wait!! I have been seriously considering getting the Jaguar XF. I need your guys opinion?? I can't make up my mind. I can get the XF next week or wait until September to get the V. I am kind of torn. Not sure if it is just the excitement of getting a new car that is making me want the Jag now. I have never really drove a Jag and think it would be nice to try something outside of the GM family. Of course I would get the 420 hp supercharged version. am i crazy to even consider this? I was thinking I could drive the Jag for 2 years then get the V when they have the PTM option is available. If you havent seen the new XF check it out and let me know.

I am wondering what the stock 1/4 mile times will be with the regular tires and all.

Thoughts please!!!

I too was excited about the new JaguarXF. I stopped by Jaguar North America in Mahwah NJ and quite surprisingly the Jaguar did NOT have the presense or purity of design that the CTS has.

Of course its just an opinion but the XF seems to have lost quite a bit in its transition from showcar to street car.

I would suggest the CTS or the CTS V if you can swing the price and wait for its arrival.

JMO

JB

NormV
03-03-08, 08:39 PM
JB, no bias in what you currently drive is there? :)

The XF has some Aston Martin lines especially when viewing the rear 3/4 shot. The cts rear shot looks like, well, a dts.


Norm



I too was excited about the new JaguarXF. I stopped by Jaguar North America in Mahwah NJ and quite surprisingly the Jaguar did NOT have the presense or purity of design that the CTS has.

Of course its just an opinion but the XF seems to have lost quite a bit in its transition from showcar to street car.

I would suggest the CTS or the CTS V if you can swing the price and wait for its arrival.

JMO

JB

embassured
03-03-08, 09:07 PM
I find myself in the same situation and also visited this same situation between the 1st Gen CTS-V and the Jag STR I currently own.

3 years ago, the separation between the two cars, performance wise, was minimal in my opinion. At that time, the ATX and the interior took me to the STR.

This go around, at least until the XFR hits the shores (which people seem to be guessing will run the high $70's) the performance is decidedly with the V. The interiors seem to be very split from a quality perspective - so that category is a toss-up to preference - though the Jag certainly breaks new ground for contemporary design.

Exterior wise (and from pictures only) the new V, in my mind, looks not too terribly dissimilar from the STS-V (great looking mind you) while the Jag completely breaks new ground in what I think almost borders on art (though C-XF was just plain drop dead gorgeous).

For my purposes, I may abandon them both a go for a low mileage, nicely depreciated, STS-v and then spend some of the leftover $25K to take off the electronic nannies.

I felt like a kid on Christmas waiting for the new "V" but, quite frankly, my Hp threshold was met with STR - hell, I can't use what I've got today. So, $25K for the new Jag or V when a used STS-V represents such a huge bargain is difficult for me to swallow. Then again, maybe I'll hold onto the STR for a couple more years and pick up a used V or XF because you can bet both of them will follow their historical depreciation patterns. All of which are great "problematic" decisions to have!!!

Best,
Eric

JBsZ06
03-03-08, 09:12 PM
JB, no bias in what you currently drive is there? :)

The XF has some Aston Martin lines especially when viewing the rear 3/4 shot. The cts rear shot looks like, well, a dts.


Norm


I drive a 2008 436hp Z51 M6 C6 Corvette everyday. I have the CTS AWD FE2 304hp for when I am traveling with the family.

I loved the show car version of the Jaguar yet the production version although still the most beautiful Jaguar in recent history (4 door) its not quite as striking as the CTS. The showcar was.

Please be aware its an opinion that the production version although nice left me less than envious. (OPINION) Nice car ...better than a recent mercedes of BMW but not as sharp or well proportioned as the CTS..

Not an insult because the Jaguar XF is very nice. Just not as striking as the CTS...(JMO) and that was the request of the original poster in this thread.

Just adding my 2 cents. take it for what its worth.

Clintonwmills
03-04-08, 11:29 PM
I bought the XF today! I just couldnt pass it up. Get it tomorrow.

thanks for all your input! The XF did look great in person. The pictures do not give it justice

JBsZ06
03-04-08, 11:52 PM
Congratulations and best of luck with a beautiful vehicle.

Make sure you come back and let us know each of the various details.

JB

Slapshot
03-05-08, 12:06 AM
Thanks for starting this thread. I'm in the same boat... Looking at the Supercharged XF, the CTS-V or the Audi S5... The Jag looks stunning...

I'm hitting the Car Show here in a weeks time to have a serious look and chat with the representatives...

z06bigbird
03-05-08, 12:08 AM
Not sure about current Jags, but historically, they have been maint headaches. I also suspect that a lease would have a really low residual on a Jag. If you do a purchase, you will find it a lot easier to sell a used Caddy than a used Jag. Market for used Jags is very poor.

SRT8/BMW
03-05-08, 06:53 AM
thanks for all your input! The XF did look great in person. The pictures do not give it justicecongratulations, that is an absolutlely beautiful car!!! Enjoy.:D

SRT8/BMW
03-05-08, 07:00 AM
Thanks for starting this thread. I'm in the same boat... Looking at the Supercharged XF, the CTS-V or the Audi S5... The Jag looks stunning...

I'm hitting the Car Show here in a weeks time to have a serious look and chat with the representatives...

I had basically "bouught" the s5. Great car...really amzing and fun to drive with the 354 hp V8 and manual tranny, plus Quattro! Nicest interior I had ever seen. But the dealer couldn't deliver because a screw up in paperwork.(title in Germany or something).so like a week went by and I started looking at other options. (this was to be my winter car since I already have an sts-v and two Hemis for summer--was trading in the Tahoe to get something "fun" for the 4-6 month winters here). Ended up falling in loive with the BMW 335 xi (awd). Twin turbo set up with same performance numbers as the S5...but with cheap mods readily available. A ECU piggyback tune ($400) and down pipes ($850), and now I have a 12 second car! (don't laugh...go check out dragtimes.com, there are actually guys hitting high 11s with this set up!)

Anyway..couldn't be happier about my decison. The S5 is awesome though..just not in the same league, in my opinion, with the CTS-V or the XF Jag (different category really-depends what you want it for)

CIWS
03-05-08, 08:56 AM
I bought the XF today! I just couldnt pass it up. Get it tomorrow.

thanks for all your input! The XF did look great in person. The pictures do not give it justice

Congrats on the new car, post of a pic or two once you get it. :) I only hope the sale of the company to an Indian owner won't adversely effect your getting good service.

CVP33
03-06-08, 04:06 AM
I like the XF but it's not my favorite Jag. I really like the XKR. Simply a beautiful car, Aston Martin looks for BMW prices. The back seat, if you can call it that, is really the only drawback. The BMW 335 performance numbers caught my eye. Now with the Dinan tuning package rolling the numbers from 300/300 to an astonishing 384hp/421tq for only $1,999 and with a FULL warranty, I was blown away. Then I start hearing about the new C63's performance numbers, which are mind numbing. 3.9 seconds 0-60? That's crazy. I sure hope GM is using the last few weeks of pre-production to rethink their 550/550. It may not be enough for Lutz to deliver on his promise.

JBsZ06
03-06-08, 06:51 AM
I like the XF but it's not my favorite Jag. I really like the XKR. Simply a beautiful car, Aston Martin looks for BMW prices. The back seat, if you can call it that, is really the only drawback. The BMW 335 performance numbers caught my eye. Now with the Dinan tuning package rolling the numbers from 300/300 to an astonishing 384hp/421tq for only $1,999 and with a FULL warranty, I was blown away. Then I start hearing about the new C63's performance numbers, which are mind numbing. 3.9 seconds 0-60? That's crazy. I sure hope GM is using the last few weeks of pre-production to rethink their 550/550. It may not be enough for Lutz to deliver on his promise.

When a world class sports sedan like the CTS V is making 550 hp and 550 lb/ft of torque and enthusiasts are saying.....it might not be enough..?



I think its time for a nice loud wake up call...

The jaguars a nice car.. Enjoy it. Post photos of it if you can.

Certainly one of the nicest designs out there in the marketplace.

Clintonwmills
03-06-08, 09:11 AM
Not sure about current Jags, but historically, they have been maint headaches. I also suspect that a lease would have a really low residual on a Jag. If you do a purchase, you will find it a lot easier to sell a used Caddy than a used Jag. Market for used Jags is very poor.


I was very surprised with the residual value at 68% for 2 years (12K mile). Much higher then a Mercedes. But I went ahead and just bought it. This way in Sept if I really want to get the V I have the option :)

Clintonwmills
03-06-08, 09:16 AM
I have to say the XF is pretty amazing. It is such a better ride then my STS-v. I didn't realize how bad the ride was until I got in the Jag. Less road noise & smooth. The STS-V is differently faster, but I wont know how much faster until I take it to the 1/4 mile track. I did have a few mods on the STS-V so that of course helps. The interior is awesome! It lights up all blue at night. The outside is much classier then the STS-V look. I will try and get some pictures together with them side by side.

Let me know if you have any questions!

CVP33
03-06-08, 07:31 PM
When a world class sports sedan like the CTS V is making 550 hp and 550 lb/ft of torque and enthusiasts are saying.....it might not be enough..?



I think its time for a nice loud wake up call...



I know what you mean. I hope Lutz hear's yah. Afterall he promised M5 door sucking performance AND the fastest four door sedan on the planet. 3.9 seconds to 60mph? 550/550 might not get the two ton beast there. I hope so, but Lutz better KNOW SO.

Clintonwmills
03-06-08, 09:27 PM
Pics!

http://www.hitcents.com/images/XF/IMG_1939.JPG
http://www.hitcents.com/images/XF/IMG_1941.JPG
http://www.hitcents.com/images/XF/IMG_1942.JPG
http://www.hitcents.com/images/XF/IMG_1947.JPG
http://www.hitcents.com/images/XF/IMG_1960.JPG
http://www.hitcents.com/images/XF/IMG_1961.JPG
http://www.hitcents.com/images/XF/IMG_1964.JPG
http://www.hitcents.com/images/XF/IMG_1971.JPG
http://www.hitcents.com/images/XF/IMG_1973.JPG

NormV
03-06-08, 11:37 PM
Wow! Looking good!

19's?

Norm

CIWS
03-07-08, 07:49 AM
Nice looking car(s). But for me personally I really do like the external appearance of the STS-V better than the Jag. However that said, the dash of the Jag looks very clean and fit.

(need to reduce the size of those pics though, most people aren't running 24"+ monitors)

egyptianzeus
03-07-08, 05:35 PM
I personally like the CTS-V, but the jag is nice. CTS-V will be king of road! lol! Good luck with you purchase and have fun!!!

urbanski
03-07-08, 05:55 PM
that some sweet (life size) pics there. great stable of rides

AlBundy
03-07-08, 06:39 PM
:yeah:

greggbat
03-07-08, 11:54 PM
Wow! Looking good!

19's?

Norm
Actually 20's.
I picked one up today too. Traded my wife's 2005 S-Type R.

Clintonwmills
03-08-08, 12:02 AM
Wow! Looking good!

19's?

Norm

20" factory

SoCal-VEE
03-08-08, 04:56 AM
Real nice ride...great addition to your already impressive stable. Kinda sparked my interest...how do you find the handling? I might swing by the Jag dealer and check it out. I'm kinda leaning towards a C63 as my new DD to replace a nicely modded 06 S4. My 07 V only has 4700 miles, and I've done a lot of work to her, so I'm planning on waiting till the 2010 rolls out.
Anyway, Congrats!!

Clintonwmills
03-08-08, 10:33 PM
Real nice ride...great addition to your already impressive stable. Kinda sparked my interest...how do you find the handling? I might swing by the Jag dealer and check it out. I'm kinda leaning towards a C63 as my new DD to replace a nicely modded 06 S4. My 07 V only has 4700 miles, and I've done a lot of work to her, so I'm planning on waiting till the 2010 rolls out.
Anyway, Congrats!!

Yeah the C63 will be nice. The handling seems very good in the Jag. Havent got to mess with it to much. The ride quality is awesome! You should go give it a test drive.

CVP33
03-09-08, 12:04 AM
So that's what a luxury car's interior is supposed to look like! I get it now. :D

HiTechRV
03-09-08, 01:26 PM
The XF is coming out next week. 420 HP supercharged. The xF-R is the 500hp version.

Personally I'd be bummed having the second-to-the-top subtype in a current production model. Probably no way to get the XF for a year then go CTS-V...

For me, I'm going into an STS-V while I wait for the CTS-V, then flipping over to the CTS-V next spring. I can see you not wanting to get the same car twice vs. something exciting and new.

NormV
04-03-09, 10:17 AM
May 2009 Car & Driver has the 2010 XFR running. 4.3 to 60 mph and 12.7 @ 115 mph with a 5.0l 32 valves and Eaton Gen 6 siprecharger found in the V making 510 hp @ 6000 rpms and 461 lb-ft torque @ a low 2500 rpms. Weight stays the same as the V with 4350 lbs. But best the V 23 mpg. Considering Jaguar averaged $6,000 in incentives per car in March it makes the XFR one sexy competitor!

Norm

neuronbob
04-03-09, 11:00 AM
I read this in my Car and Driver as well. The XF is certainly a beautiful beast, I looked briefly at it but was simply more hooked by the V2, as I have been since the V2 was announced. The highway mileage is simply awesome.

Looks like the V has some competition, that's what makes being able to afford these cars great! :) Still happy with my choice of the V, though.

JBsZ06
04-03-09, 12:21 PM
THe Jag xf is a nice enough sedan but the cTS V is in a class way beyond the jaguar..IMO

Good luck deciding..

I know I would chose the CTSV for myself.

JB

Vlakaz
04-03-09, 08:35 PM
May 2009 Car & Driver has the 2010 XFR running. 4.3 to 60 mph and 12.7 @ 115 mph with a 5.0l 32 valves and Eaton Gen 6 siprecharger found in the V making 510 hp @ 6000 rpms and 461 lb-ft torque @ a low 2500 rpms. Weight stays the same as the V with 4350 lbs. But best the V 23 mpg. Considering Jaguar averaged $6,000 in incentives per car in March it makes the XFR one sexy competitor!

Norm

The 510hp XFR definantly looks good, but I think it is going to start at 80K USD according to Motortrend (May 2009 issue). So we are moving up a notch in pricing. BTW you really need to see the new CTSV, photos don't quite do it justice, just like the STSv which looks alot better in person.

Resale value is a wash since both Caddys and Jags don't hold their value well.

Performance is unknown yet for the Jag, Motor trend is saying 4.7s 0-60 and 1/4 in 13.1s. Either way, the 09V should be able to easily outsprint the Jag.

Handling might be pretty close to the V since it is using MRC suspension as well.

Can't wait to see how the 09V holds up against the new XFR, the new E63 thats coming, the new C63, and of course both M's.

Either way, I'm sticking to the V and picking it up soon.