: After 30 Years of trash... Pontiac FINALLY gets it right.



Playdrv4me
02-22-08, 08:27 AM
And not just by a smidge. Not in some typical GM "well the interior sucks but the thing has a balls out motor" way.

No, apparently this car is 100% right from stem to stern. Even the audio system in the GT features a Blaupunkt amplifier and speakers, and a gorgeous full color display screen for all the key center stack functions (though a navigation system is conspicuously absent from the options list) a la' Mercedes and BMW. Well the controls must look like they're lifted from a Chinese boombox right? Nope. Pontiac went straight to the top for their inspiration on this thing, right to Audi. Looking through the interior (except for the requisite fake silver on the wheel) this REALLY shows, from the shape and texture of the buttons, to the UN-GM like shifter, to the contours of the doors, this interior had as much thought put into it as the REST of the car.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/roadtest/08.pontiac.g8.gt/08.pontiac.g8.cc.500.jpg

Sure, there's the performance, and that big hunk of metal under the hood, but in this case Pontiac proves its existence in a way it hasn't done in *along* time.

Read Edmunds first drive here: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=124876?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1 .*#26

96Fleetwood
02-22-08, 08:53 AM
Thank you Holden! Actually this was brought to us in 2004 with the GTO. Personally I think the GTO interior, especially the seats are better than the G8 GT I sat in.

BigJon
02-22-08, 10:14 AM
i agree pontiac really steped it up big time i really like the vibe and thinking of getting one

CadillacSTS42005
02-22-08, 10:44 AM
ummm
i dont think the WS6 TAs were trash...
nor SLP Firehawks....
or the 35th Anniversary Yellow TA

Playdrv4me
02-22-08, 10:45 AM
ummm
i dont think the WS6 TAs were trash...
nor SLP Firehawks....
or the 35th Anniversary Yellow TA

Missing the point. Except for the gas and clutch pedals, the interior is basically disposable..

CadillacSTS42005
02-22-08, 10:47 AM
lol i got your point play i was just nudgin ya
that specific car no body bought for the interior
and they didnt build it for it either hahaha

the GTO to me was nothing but a Grand AM/Prix on roids...
and an awesome buy for 20k now a days

Playdrv4me
02-22-08, 10:54 AM
lol i got your point play i was just nudgin ya
that specific car no body bought for the interior
and they didnt build it for it either hahaha

the GTO to me was nothing but a Grand AM/Prix on roids...
and an awesome buy for 20k now a days

Oh I agree with you, If I really wanted one of those classic TAs, I certainly would not pass it up over the interior, but thats you and me, and I CAN appreciate any car ALOT more (STS) that has the interior to back up what is under the hood. There is no reason that those concepts should be mutually exclusive.

I guarantee you this G8 is going to steal buyers away from the Euro and Japan brands who in the past would have strayed away from Pontiac because of the tupperware interiors. And THAT is what GM desperately needs right now.

The really amazing thing, is that this G8 beats the Corvette interior for 20k less. Sure it may not be as quick, but for a 4 door family car that is an impressive combination of speed AND luxury. It's like the CTS-V all over again.

CadillacSTS42005
02-22-08, 10:56 AM
anything that brings ppl to GM
and turns away Euro and Rice trash
is awesome for me

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
02-22-08, 11:02 AM
I'm a big fan of the 80's Camaro's and Firebirds. If you had a Firebird with the digital dash the computer would display "Pontiac System Okay" every time you started the car. I don't care who you are, thats friggin sweet.

SvB4EvA
02-22-08, 11:07 AM
My old GP was a great car.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-forums-lounge-member-introductions/30963d1179444148-my-old-87-grand-prix-gp_1.jpg

SvB4EvA
02-22-08, 11:08 AM
anything that brings ppl to GM
and turns away Euro and Rice trash
is awesome for me

WELL said! :highfive:

gary88
02-22-08, 11:52 AM
Wow, kudos to Pontiac! Definitely a ton of Audi inspiration in there, and I love it.

MauiV
02-22-08, 12:01 PM
Best dash/interior IMO is the new Jag XF. It has Phosphor blue instrument and trim lighting like on a Razr phone.

thebigjimsho
02-22-08, 12:52 PM
Best dash/interior IMO is the new Jag XF. It has Phosphor blue instrument and trim lighting like on a Razr phone.For 3 times the price.

I was really impressed with the G8 at NAIAS. The most impressive? The rear seats. They were uber-comfortable and spacious. And there was plenty of room for my large 6'1 frame. And that was with the front seat way back. A great car, agreed.

Playdrv4me
02-22-08, 01:02 PM
That old Grand Prix was a beautiful car. My "trash" comment is not meant to say these werent great cars, merely that Pontiac for once has produced something that can compete FULLY with it's biggest competitors and naysayers. Interiors were never a strongsuit for Pontiac. More of a problem in the plastic era of the 90s than the 80s.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
02-22-08, 01:55 PM
After years of Pontiac saying that they were America's version of BMW, it looks like they're finally able to mean what they say!

When I sat in that G8 at the Chicago Auto Show, I was very impressed with it, it felt and looked Germanic. The buttons and controls all fit very well together, build quality was impeccable, and the interior looked like a BMW. And by that I mean it looked very high quality, but quite businesslike and not as colorful or flamboyant as a Benz or Cadillac. It was totally, totally different from what Pontiac was making 5 years ago. In 2003, IMO, the only appealing thing that Pontiac offered was the Grand Prix, everything else looked like shit inside and out, especially the Grand AM's, and back then, everything was GM Corporate. Same low tech pushrod V6's used everywhere, (except the awesome 3800, you can't do wrong with that motor), same cheap chintzy interiors, same reliability problems, etc etc. In 2003, you had the Grand Am, Sunfire, Grand Prix, Bonneville and Aztek. Aside from the GTP, which of those held up after five years?? Aside from the GTP, are any of those really desirable anymore?

None.

At my high school, Pontiac was by far the most popular brand by the student body, which might explain why I don't like most Pontiac models from the last 10 years very much at all..... The Grand Am was the most popular (oh you better buy that Grand AM GT, those are fast!!!!!), but the Sunfire was a close second, namely the coupe, and we had our fair share of 1997+ Grand Prixs, and the GTP was a fairly well respected car in my school, which might explain why I like them quite a bit, and we had a few Bonnevilles too, mainly the 1992-1999 style, and anyone who had a V-8 Trans Am was the coolest, but you can't really blame them. They were the fastest cars in school.

I've gotta say though, there have been a few Pontiac models through the last twenty or so years that I like....87-92 Trans AM, especially the GTA, and the 92-99 Bonneville SSEi (man, I remember going to the local Pontiac dealer when I was in kindergarten, 1992, when they were brand new, and I LOVED those, especially the way they did the exterior). And then there's the 1997-03 Grand Prix GTP. That's basically it for me.

So yeah, Kudos to Pontiac. :thumbsup:

CadillacSTS42005
02-22-08, 02:00 PM
ummm
SSEI Bonneville's are actually in demand...


After years of Pontiac saying that they were America's version of BMW, it looks like they're finally able to mean what they say!

When I sat in that G8 at the Chicago Auto Show, I was very impressed with it, it felt and looked Germanic. The buttons and controls all fit very well together, build quality was impeccable, and the interior looked like a BMW. And by that I mean it looked very high quality, but quite businesslike and not as colorful or flamboyant as a Benz or Cadillac. It was totally, totally different from what Pontiac was making 5 years ago. In 2003, IMO, the only appealing thing that Pontiac offered was the Grand Prix, everything else looked like shit inside and out, especially the Grand AM's, and back then, everything was GM Corporate. Same low tech pushrod V6's used everywhere, (except the awesome 3800, you can't do wrong with that motor), same cheap chintzy interiors, same reliability problems, etc etc. In 2003, you had the Grand Am, Sunfire, Grand Prix, Bonneville and Aztek. Aside from the GTP, which of those held up after five years?? Aside from the GTP, are any of those really desirable anymore?

None.

At my high school, Pontiac was by far the most popular brand by the student body, which might explain why I don't like most Pontiac models from the last 10 years very much at all..... The Grand Am was the most popular (oh you better buy that Grand AM GT, those are fast!!!!!), but the Sunfire was a close second, namely the coupe, and we had our fair share of 1997+ Grand Prixs, and the GTP was a fairly well respected car in my school, which might explain why I like them quite a bit, and we had a few Bonnevilles too, mainly the 1992-1999 style, and anyone who had a V-8 Trans Am was the coolest, but you can't really blame them. They were the fastest cars in school.

I've gotta say though, there have been a few Pontiac models through the last twenty or so years that I like....87-92 Trans AM, especially the GTA, and the 92-99 Bonneville SSEi (man, I remember going to the local Pontiac dealer when I was in kindergarten, 1992, when they were brand new, and I LOVED those, especially the way they did the interior. And then there's the 1997-03 Grand Prix GTP. That's basically it for me.

So yeah, Kudos to Pontiac. :thumbsup:

MauiV
02-22-08, 04:34 PM
For 3 times the price.

The XF is gonna base at $49Kish. The 500HP R model in the $80K range.

I will be the first to congratulate GM on FINALLY getting rid of the Rubbermaid interior. My 04 V interior isnt nearly as nice as my 04 Lincoln LS was, but I didnt buy it for the dash.


IMO the pic above has the big Fisher-Price style buttons that I loathe in a car. I like clean lines, smooth flow from the dash to the consloe and I still hate the orange backlights (hated them in Bimmers 20 years ago), even in my own current car.

MauiV
02-22-08, 04:36 PM
and anyone who had a V-8 Trans Am was the coolest, but you can't really blame them. They were the fastest cars in school.

I've gotta say though, there have been a few Pontiac models through the last twenty or so years that I like....87-92 Trans AM, especially the GTA, and the 92-99 Bonneville SSEi (man, I remember going to the local Pontiac dealer when I was in kindergarten, 1992, when they were brand new, and I LOVED those, especially the way they did the exterior). And then there's the 1997-03 Grand Prix GTP. That's basically it for me.

So yeah, Kudos to Pontiac. :thumbsup:


The 1989 Anniversary Trans Am with the Buick 3.8 is the best TA built in my lifetime and may still be the fastest.

LS1Mike
02-22-08, 04:55 PM
The 1989 Anniversary Trans Am with the Buick 3.8 is the best TA built in my lifetime and may still be the fastest.
It is not the fastest or the best in performance. It however is a very nice piece of American automotive history.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/features/0512gm_1989_pontiac_trans_am_turbo_feature/index.html
The fastest ones have been clocked at 13.4xx 102 mph
98 to 00 T/As have commonly gone 13.00 at 108 mph 01 and up T/As have gone 12's at 110 mph and braking and handling are better, I won't even mention the Firehawk.

Night Wolf
02-22-08, 06:27 PM
LOL, I'm sorry but I had to actually LOL at this comment and picture....

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/roadtest/08.pontiac.g8.gt/08.pontiac.g8.int.det.500.jpg


Suddenly it's 1982. At least the oil pressure gauge actually reads the oil pressure.

lol, sorta fitting for me :)

Anyway, this is a sweet car... too bad no manual option....

Now to figure out whats gonna be a better buy in 6 years.... '08+ CTS 3.6DI, manual, Saturn Sky Redline, manual or the '08+ G8 GT... no manual tho :( Well, more like which car I'll be more interested..... ugh... too many choices.

Me thinks there will be a GXP or something to get even more power.

I agree, we first saw this with the new GTO..... it's just nobody really cared much.... due to [lack of] marketing... hopefully they'll get that right this time.

hueterm
02-22-08, 08:05 PM
I don't know...the '97-02(?) GPs weren't trash. The last gen Trans Ams weren't trash...

The Bonneville SSEis and GXPs weren't trash...

Now the economy cars....that's another story...

Night Wolf
02-22-08, 08:07 PM
Now the economy cars....that's another story...

Yeah, but I mean what is really expected?

Or, in other words, who else put out such steller econo-boxes in the 90's that are now highly sought-after (not counting rare/performance models)?

96Fleetwood
02-22-08, 08:27 PM
FYI: The Pontiac G8 GXP can be had with a 6 speed manual....

Night Wolf
02-22-08, 08:30 PM
FYI: The Pontiac G8 GXP can be had with a 6 speed manual....

GXP? Wow.... 6spd manual will be real nice.

So thats a step higher then the GT?

Man..... that or the new CTS..... the new CTS has such a sweet interior...

but the Sky Redline is a 2-seat convertible roadster.....

..... man its tough....

LS1Mike
02-22-08, 09:44 PM
I don't know...the '97-02(?) GPs weren't trash. The last gen Trans Ams weren't trash...

The Bonneville SSEis and GXPs weren't trash...

Now the economy cars....that's another story...

Finally I don't voice my opinion here because it is shit upon, by people who weren't old enough to get them new (and yeah I have had few beers tonitght so get over it) but your are right. Peroid. For the MONEY you paid you got a nice reilable car that did well. 13 second 1/4 miles for under 25,000 bucks? Oh Trans AM. Supercharged charged V-6s and decent interiors. Boneville and GTP. My WS6 is 8 years old with an ass ton of 1/4 mile passes and no rattles, rips or broken stuff, there are a ton of people with the same experince not the 4 or 5 who shit all over them here, who most have never even owned one but believe magazine opinions should bet theirs, when they are just conjecture based off some one else thoughts.
Opinions are like *******s...everyone has one and they all stink.
Not everything is going to be a goddamn Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes or Audi.
They COST MORE!
So ****ing flame away, I am tired of the shit.

hueterm
02-22-08, 10:01 PM
:hide:

Night Wolf
02-22-08, 10:03 PM
To be fair, when talking cars.... $25k today isn't what $25k was 10yrs ago.....

car prices moved up $5-10k since.

LS1Mike
02-22-08, 10:19 PM
To be fair, when talking cars.... $25k today isn't what $25k was 10yrs ago.....

car prices moved up $5-10k since.

You would be correct, I seem to remeber getting bitched out for making general statments on this board before, when the title of this post is the most general thing I have read to date.
Yeah maybe it is the beer talking, but like I said, even then because I remeber looking at new cars in 94, I bought a brand new 94 Z28, The comparable equiped imports always cost more. Which in effect should have made them better. Sure Pontiac made some crappy cars, no doubt.
However I know there are an ass ton of folks who bought them new, took care of them and love them who will tell you someting totally different.
Just becuase you drove some 10 year old used version that was traded off because the person was done with it, dosen't make you the authority on what the car was capable of when new or loved.

LS1Mike
02-22-08, 10:20 PM
:hide:

Don't hide man! This is exactly what the internet is for. What else are you doing on Friday night?

hueterm
02-22-08, 10:22 PM
I got up from under the chair a while ago, lol.

cm_ls1
02-22-08, 10:31 PM
i will take a white one - hot!

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/features/general/pontiac.g8.in.australia/pontiac.g8.factory.line.8.500.jpg

Night Wolf
02-23-08, 01:29 AM
i will take a white one - hot!

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/features/general/pontiac.g8.in.australia/pontiac.g8.factory.line.8.500.jpg

Wow.

Cadillacboy
02-23-08, 06:04 PM
I like that interior too .Pontiac surely deserves to be a better brand as well as higher sales figures

v10boost
02-24-08, 01:31 AM
How can you go wrong with V8 and RWD?

Night Wolf
02-24-08, 01:56 AM
How can you go wrong with V8 and RWD?

My thoughts exactly :)

Even if it is now considered old, I still like it, alot :)

DILLIGAF
02-24-08, 10:52 AM
We tried to wait for the G8,in the end the wife bought the Lincoln MKZ.I really wanted the Pontiac for the motor and the rear wheel drive.After a few months of the Lincoln i'm glad we went that way.2 friggen hours last night on snow and slush at 50 mph,car is great in the shit and thats what my wife needs.I am also worried about the G8 becoming a kid car like the rustangs,3 years from now will the HS parking lots be full of them?

SvB4EvA
02-24-08, 06:09 PM
That is hot. I wanna see one in person! :yup:


i will take a white one - hot!

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/features/general/pontiac.g8.in.australia/pontiac.g8.factory.line.8.500.jpg

Blackout
02-24-08, 07:12 PM
White modified WS6 Trans Am's with Z06 wheels on them are trash

LS1Mike
02-24-08, 08:57 PM
White modified WS6 Trans Am's with Z06 wheels on them are trash

Thanks...
Oh by the way...
Fail...
on spinning me up today anyway :) .

Blackout
02-24-08, 09:03 PM
Thanks...
Oh by the way...
Fail...
on spinning me up today anyway :) .

You're no fun!:tisk:

LS1Mike
02-24-08, 09:18 PM
Ok ok ok...

You suck, Your dads ford=poop

How is that? I just spent to much time put up tile in my bathroom, my wife is a slave driver...

Blackout
02-24-08, 09:55 PM
Ok ok ok...

You suck, Your dads ford=poop

How is that? I just spent to much time put up tile in my bathroom, my wife is a slave driver...

So what your saying is your wife is my ally in our ongoing battle to the death?:ninja:

LS1Mike
02-24-08, 10:22 PM
Perhaps so, perhaps so...

DaveSmed
02-24-08, 10:52 PM
i will take a white one - hot!

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/features/general/pontiac.g8.in.australia/pontiac.g8.factory.line.8.500.jpg

Wow, and it LOOKS like a Pontiac, not a generic aero latemodel something. And a six speed option?! Finally!!!

Playdrv4me
02-26-08, 12:39 AM
I don't know...the '97-02(?) GPs weren't trash. The last gen Trans Ams weren't trash...

The Bonneville SSEis and GXPs weren't trash...

Now the economy cars....that's another story...

The interiors were. And that's the last time I'm gonna say that.The rest of the car was NOT trash. Geez, I WANTED a GP GTP for the LONGEST time at the same time the 5.9 Grand Cherokee was out (significantly better interior), they were the best bang for the buck. But I didn't have any misconceptions about the Pontiac's interior.

Playdrv4me
02-26-08, 12:41 AM
i will take a white one - hot!

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/features/general/pontiac.g8.in.australia/pontiac.g8.factory.line.8.500.jpg

I see projectors. Looks like it will have Xenon lights after all! Hooray!

hueterm
02-26-08, 01:03 AM
Unless the JGC 5.9 had a different interior than the Limited of the same vintage, the "quality" difference between those and the '97+ GTP is purely subjective. That JGC was just as plasticky as the GTP, save the burled plastic trim -- and quite a bit more squeaky.

At least the GTPs (at least the one I had) came out before the infatuation of carbon fiber and satin...

Interior standards were lower then -- especially w/American cars. At least the Pontiac interiors were fairly unique compared to most others. For better or worse, when you saw one, you could tell it was a Pontiac.

Playdrv4me
02-26-08, 01:15 AM
The only thing I remember about Pontiac interiors that I liked was oddly enough, the Radios. They were the only ones that had the built in adjustable equalizers and the red LCD displays, they sounded pretty damn good.

hueterm
02-26-08, 01:37 AM
One VERY aggravating thing though, was that on the Bonnevilles, IIRC, the HVAC and Stereo displays were green and the gauges were red. Totally goofed...

Some of the Bose units, though (at least on GTP) didn't have the eq. controls -- Bose knew best... It did sound pretty good though. Especially for the time and how much the car cost.

Pontiacs were also pretty early adopters of the car shaped displays on the dash for door ajar, trunk open, low fuel, etc. Now, those have been pretty much replaced by digital info centers, but were effective, relatively low tech, but looked cool.

blunted
02-26-08, 09:38 AM
Dammit this post makes me want the car even more... I really dont think there is better bang for the buck (with a warranty) in the price range.
I'm doing everything in my power to keep the Eldorado moving along this year until I can get my hands on one of these. Getting a G8 GT (non 888 model) with all the goodies is turning out to be quite a pain in the ass. Not many dealers know when or what they're getting which is getting old. Hopefully I'm in one by the summer.

Blackout
02-26-08, 01:19 PM
I see projectors. Looks like it will have Xenon lights after all! Hooray!

Just because it has projectors doesn't mean it will have Xenon headlamps. Our old GMC Yukon Denalo had projectors but no Xenons.

CIWS
03-02-08, 04:02 PM
Inside Line /Edmunds puts the new G8 up against the Charger RT.



eInLIqFwSjU

Night Wolf
03-02-08, 05:22 PM
Wow, thats pretty sweet :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-02-08, 08:16 PM
Poor man's 5 series/ STS.

It's what the GTP always aspired to be.

HITMONEY
03-03-08, 03:03 PM
I dunno, to me the G8 has an ancient look.

It is not all that different from my dads old 89 Grand Am looks wise.


was a great car, but Hellllllooooooo this is 2008.

gary88
03-04-08, 10:43 PM
A guy from another forum I'm on got to see a production G8 GT and snapped some photos.

https://umdrive.memphis.edu/awiseman/G8/G8.jpg

https://umdrive.memphis.edu/awiseman/G8/G83.jpg

https://umdrive.memphis.edu/awiseman/G8/G85.jpg

https://umdrive.memphis.edu/awiseman/G8/G87.jpg

https://umdrive.memphis.edu/awiseman/G8/G811.jpg

https://umdrive.memphis.edu/awiseman/G8/G813.jpg

MauiV
03-05-08, 01:23 AM
I hate the steering wheel, the plastic looking seats and the red lighting. But it is WAY better than GM and especially Pontiac have been in the past. Its a step in the right direction but still a lot of room for improvement.

The grill doesnt look nearly as good as the Monero either. Like someone else said, still looks way to much like a 89 Grand Am straight on. Maybe getting rid of the plastic grill and airdam would help.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-05-08, 01:25 AM
A guy from another forum I'm on got to see a production G8 GT and snapped some photos.

https://umdrive.memphis.edu/awiseman/G8/G8.jpg

https://umdrive.memphis.edu/awiseman/G8/G83.jpg

https://umdrive.memphis.edu/awiseman/G8/G85.jpg

https://umdrive.memphis.edu/awiseman/G8/G87.jpg

https://umdrive.memphis.edu/awiseman/G8/G811.jpg

https://umdrive.memphis.edu/awiseman/G8/G813.jpg



Smells like......Sex and canday.

hueterm
03-05-08, 11:40 AM
Like the front OK, interior looks pretty good except for the 2 tone seats...

However, the what looks to be 6" trunk lid, looks stupid.

Jesda
03-05-08, 02:28 PM
I came to really like the Bonneville GXP, except for those stupid vents all over the dashboard.

gothicaleigh
03-14-08, 12:55 PM
:shifty

btZ4YXiwRgc

That was unbelievably cool.

urbanski
03-14-08, 01:06 PM
haha sweet vid, i remember that game

CIWS
03-14-08, 01:21 PM
Spyhunter :D Nice video.

gothicaleigh
03-19-08, 02:24 PM
pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
let this be the next GTO:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/MikeZip007/coupe6001hj5.jpg

MauiV
03-19-08, 04:01 PM
Are they aware that grills can be made from something other than Fischer-Price plastic? At least that part looks like every Pontiac made in the last 20 years.

BTW, Im sure they will dick it up and move the side pipes too.

ShadowLvr400
03-19-08, 04:16 PM
It's definately nice looking. Still outside my current budget. :(

thebigjimsho
03-19-08, 08:45 PM
Are they aware that grills can be made from something other than Fischer-Price plastic? At least that part looks like every Pontiac made in the last 20 years.

BTW, Im sure they will dick it up and move the side pipes too.I'm guessing regulations will make them "dick" that up too...

hueterm
03-20-08, 12:08 AM
I came to really like the Bonneville GXP, except for those stupid vents all over the dashboard.

Yeah, far and away the best high-end Bonneville, and then they nix it. (I always have been partial to the SSE/SSEi though.)

caddycruiser
03-20-08, 05:44 PM
Yeah, far and away the best high-end Bonneville, and then they nix it. (I always have been partial to the SSE/SSEi though.)

Except for that Bonneville in general being nothing to rave at. Terrible interior, big car outside with cramped and uncomfortable back seat, had quality issues early on, etc. There's a reason the marque died, and it's pretty clear. The GXP was the best incarnation of it, but the best incarnation of something like that still isn't THAT great. Still have a bit of a following, though, even as unimpressive as they were in many ways.

Simple effect of you can't build/continue to design & refine something that no one is actually buying or wants. They improved it as much as humanly and budget possible in '04-05 and then done with.

Pontiac still desperately wants to be the American BMW, with a lot of/mostly RWD specifically, and a big FWD sedan with old V6's, etc. was a huge sore to get rid of for that plan. Kind of like how the DTS soon will be, for Cadillac.

Then again, the "transformation" of Pontiac is and will continue to be the slowest, most unsure one in all of GM...so the proof in the pudding has yet to be seen.

hueterm
03-21-08, 12:40 AM
"Terrible" as it may have been, in 1988 when the SSE was first introduced, it had one of the most unique interior looks of any American car -- with still one of the best color camel leathers ever used. The biggest problem w/the Bonneville was that they didn't refine it enough, fast enough. The 2004 redesign's level of refinement should have come in the mid '90s and it might have been a different story. The late '90s models were too similar to the same era GP for a $10K higher MSRP.

Night Wolf
03-30-08, 08:30 PM
pAO847W_ryY

gothicaleigh
04-08-08, 12:32 PM
Pontiac fires one at BMW:

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I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-08-08, 01:14 PM
Try as they may, Pontiac will NEVER be BMW. Pontiac will always be the more economical buy.

AMGoff
04-08-08, 01:39 PM
Try as they may, Pontiac will NEVER be BMW. Pontiac will always be the more economical buy.

You're spot on... because as Clarkson so astutely pointed out, one gets something he absolutely CANNOT get on the G8... and that's a BMW badge, which is "worth its weight in myrrh."

It doesn't have to be a BMW, because by most accounts it's a better car...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-08-08, 01:41 PM
Cadillac is the American BMW.

AMGoff
04-08-08, 01:49 PM
Cadillac is the American BMW.

:tisk:

Cadillac is the finest American car maker there is and will hopefully one day regain its nomenclature as "Standard of the Whole Darn-tootin' World," they shouldn't be compared to anyone.

It doesn't matter what those pesky Bavarians are up to... they make their money from a small circular piece of plastic which sits affixed to the hood of some cars. Cadillac's fighting for every dollar they earn these days...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-08-08, 01:54 PM
....by designing excellent performance/luxury vehicles. A field pioneered by BMW/M-B back in the late '70s, early '80s.

thebigjimsho
04-08-08, 02:16 PM
....by designing excellent performance/luxury vehicles. A field pioneered by BMW/M-B back in the late '70s, early '80s.Actually, it was kickstarted in the 60s with the 2002. Every time I get behind the wheel of my parents' '72 and throw it through some twisties, I fully appreciate how BMW gets handling. And I've been able to autocross a latest gen 3-series. They "got it" then and they "get it" now...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-08-08, 02:39 PM
Ah yes, the 1968 2002....the one that started it all.

thebigjimsho
04-08-08, 02:55 PM
Ah yes, the 1968 2002....the one that started it all.Amazing hearing how when my parents first got their Bimmer, they were so rare you always flashed your lights if you saw another one. Could you imagine doing that today?