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GM Poised For Lutz Era
Product guru's influence to shine first in '05 Regal, then in many '06 intros
Automotive News

By Dave Guilford
August 04, 2003

DeVille, DTS: GM will appeal to security-minded buyers with an armored DeVille sedan for the 2004 model year.
The DeVille will be restyled and re-engineered for the 2006 model year, retaining fwd to appeal to traditional Cadillac drivers. Cadillac will drop the DeVille name at that time, opting for DTS.

GM is expected to redesign the DTS at the end of the decade and adopt rear drive.
----------------------------
The new name I expected was XTS or S?S.
But this says it's gonna be DTS.
This means that they make D-series plus the present C-,S- and X- series.
I hate this idea because it breaks the hierarchy just built in the caddy line-up.
BMW has 3,5 and 7.
Mercedes has C, E and S.
But Caddy has some strange D together with C, S, X line-up.

If you have any other information than this, please show me!

Thank you!
Ed

The structure still seems to be there:

Sedans: three tier
D - luxury
S - performace luxury
C - midsize/compact preformance luxury

Sports
X

Suvs
S - midsize luxury performance suv
E - large luxury suv

I hate it. I hate it all. I can't support the destruction of their namesake cars. As a nonconformist type of person I cant support Cadillac trying to be like BMW and Mercedes Benz.

I agree, and I HATE it too!! One-By-One-By-One they have retired every well-known (around the world, I might ad) famous Cadillac name. Names that they spent fortunes on in advertising & market posistioning.

Last:
Allante: 1993
Sixty Special: 1993
Fleetwood: 1996 -or- 1999 (from Superior)
Seville: 2004
Eldorado: 2003
Catera: 2002
Coupe deVille: 1993

Now, it all looks like Alphabet Soup

All I can say is I've still got Lincoln. They're actually reviving one of their namesake cars. Maybe even two if they bring back the Mark series.

Cadillac should definately leave the Deville name alone. Deville is one of the most recognizable car names, not to mention the longest running. Doing away with the Deville name would be like Chevy getting rid of Corvette, or Honda getting rid of Civic. Everybody knows a Deville is a Cadillac. It would also kill all hopes of the Coupe Deville coming back. Caddy will lose so much respect from its loyalists if they do away with Deville.

I dont find it confusing at all, if you want to talk about a jumble look at mercedes. you stated they have C,E, and S. Actually they have:

C
CL
CLK
S
SL
SLK
SLR
M
G
E

In Europe they have an A, which will be transformed into the B when it comes here as a crossover. Oh lets not forget the GST....oh, and the CLS which should be here in around 18 months or so.

More models means more names, thats the bottom line

Those are all different models. C and CL have nothing to do with one another etc.

The name XTS may very well be used on the rumored ultra lux Cadillac.

oh and BMW doesnt have 3,5,7 They have

3
5
6
7
X

and they will be joined shortly by a 4-series and europe already has a 1-series

I dont find it confusing at allIt's not that it's confusing, it's that Cadillac is forgetting it's roots. As CDVRob mentioned before, it's like Chevy getting rid of the name Corvette. If Ford renamed the Mustang the MSC (M-Series Sport Coupe), or back in the day if Dodge called the Charger the CPC (C-Series Performance Coupe) would they be memorable at all? Hell I like Mercedes cars, some look real sharp but hell if I remember what they're called.

In my opinion, part of a car's greatness is it's name. A Mustang is a pony, small, fast, and graceful much like the car. The Charger, a ram, bull, whatever charges furiously and fearsomely, much like the Dodge Charger. The Buick Regal, regal is a term that relates to royalty and the fine.

Cadillac's names aren't very furious but they defined the name of luxury from 1903 to the day the first Cadillac had it's name butchered into an acronym. A lot of car companies now are building retros and bringing back names that have been lost in the sands of time. The rebirths of the GTO, Thunderbird, Zephyr, and Chevy's concept Bel-Air are appealing to those who remember watching their chromed out big bodied ancestors rolling down their streets back in a past where gas was $.69 a gallon, candy was a nickel, and where a car was a car!

Thank you and good night!
*Bows*

S
C
R
E
W

W
H
A
T

M
B

&

B
M
W

D
O

I dont mind the new scheme, it brings it in line with all the other luxury manufacturers. not just MB and BMW, but also Lexus, Infiniti, Jaguar, Audi. If thats what it takes to get more people in the showroom, i guess its a necessary evil.

I already wrote something heartfelt and emotional so......

Booooooooooooooo! *Hurls tomatoes* LOL!

*takes the CTS logo off a wrecked CTS and slaps it on the Catera*


Rut Roh Rorge!

I agree that getting rid of their only traditional name will be horrible.... I can only hope that the dealer that do their Vogue Treatment to the cars continue to apply Deville logos throught the car, I know I would.

At least Lincoln isnt selling out, Zephyr and Continental will be back, so will the Mark and the Town Car is sticking around for a while too.

While nameplates like DeVille (and certainly the now-defunct Eldorado) are instant recognition as a Cadillac, moreso than CTS or STS, they are also synonymous with sub-standard reliability, floaty boat-like handling, and in so many words, your grandfather's car.

I am among the new generation of Cadillac enthusiasts...... those who would have never even looked at a Cadillac 3 years ago, but now am planning to buy a CTS 6 speed 3.6. In case you haven't noticed, the CTS is outselling even GM's typically overstated sales goals (they were planning on selling 25,000 CTS models per year, and as of May this year they already achieved that!)

I have to say I like the simple, 3 letter designations. Direct, to the point, and you know what car they are talking about - CTS means performance luxury and sporty handling, STS means classy luxury and elegnace, and XLR means 2 seat roadster, baby!

I guess that's the dividing line Cadillac has created, but it's something they had to do. If they kept selling big land barges that look like boxes and feel like sofas on wheels, they would have continued to loose sales to BMW, Mercedes Benz, and even Acura and Lexus. This was something Cadillac had to do, they did, and it's working.

Hahahaha Sandy!

Hey this is fun. Infiniti!
Q
QX
M
FX
G
I

Acura!
MDX
RSX
TSX
SLX
NSX
EL (Canada)
TL
CL

To me.......
To me, the Cadillac designations are too confusing, and do not (to my brain) follow suit. I'll try to show by way of example:

Audi: A4 A6 A8
BMW: 3, 5 & 7 Series
M-B: C, E, & S Class
Lexus: ES GS LS
Infiniti: G35 - I35 - M45 - Q45
SAAB: 9.3 - 9.5
Volvo: S40 - S60 - S80

By comparasion, Caddy seems to me to be all over the place.
To me it just seems like when people used to change their name
to fit into a club, group, country club where they were not
allowed into. 'Ya know, the Cohens became the Collins, and the
Ippalitos became the Hamiltons.

To me the CTS is the Catera, the XLR is the Allante, the STS is the
Seville and the forthcoming DTS is the deVille. It's just a name,
and like people, a name can be changed. As for older people
(those over 60) I see them driving a wide spectrum of 4-door sedans.
Many dodge Intrepids, Mercury Grand Marquis, DeVilles & Town Cars,
Buick LeSabres & Park Avenues and Chrysler Concordes. Not too
many Pontiacs or Chevrolets. Also Crown Vics and many Toyota
Avalons & Camrys.

the XLR is the Allante, the STS is the
Seville


An XLR will run circles around even the best '93 brand new Allantes with the Northstar engine, and the STS would to the same to a Seville.

Keep in mind, the XLR is based on the C6 chasis, so not only does it handle like it's on rails and accelerate like a 2 seat roadster should, it's rear wheel drive.

And some still wonder why the Allante never sold against a Mercedes 500SL?

i dont understand the problem here...for the last few years the Seville has been refered to as an STS. Dealerships, peopel who own them, ive never heard them refer to it as a Seville...IT SAYS STS ON THE REAR. same with the DTS...we all kno its a deville...why are people so confused???? DHS AND DTS dont say deville anywhere on them...people act like this is something new, its been around for the past few years.

Old habits die hard. To be honest, I think people are just so shocked at the dramatic design shift GM is undertaking that they are taking it out on the nameplates :) .

If I were in their shoes, I'd be more upset that I couldn't get a full front bench seat anymore. :p

Now that you mention it.........

Chrysler Concorde & Dodge Intrepid
Ford Crown Vic & Merc Gr. Marquis
Lincoln Town Car
Pontiac Bonneville
Chevrolet Impala
Buick LeSabre
Buick Park Avenue
Toyota Avalon

and others.....
Yes, I have it in both the Caddy & the Town Car ;)

I meant specifically Cadillac only.......

And Bonneville comes only buckets and console for '04.

I must admit the GXP with the Northstar is a very solid car...... the best Bonnie ever. I drove one at the Auto Show in Motion last week, and I was very impressed.

'Ya, I've been crazy about that GXP Bonnie since I first saw it. THAT'S a REALLY nice car !!! There's a deep blue one I see in this town like once a week or so. Sweet car!!

hey now , one of the most exiciteing cars ive ever driven had a bench seat ...but it had over 400 cubes,bias tyres and was 30+ years old

Im warning everyone , go out on a date with a fine woman and a bench seat while you can ....

AHH the good old days when you didnt have to worry about your date poping the tranny in nutral ...welcome to the new world , political corectness now mandates you have plastic leather and critical levers between you and your significant other

dont get me wrong i like my performace cars with big side bolterd buckets , tall consoles, console mounted parking brakes, and snick-snick shifters ...but gimme a bench for my daily driver , in fact gimme my caddy

and im only 23 !

Its a shame Cadillac is selling out all of they're traditions. If I had the money to buy a Deville, I would demand it say Deville on it no matter what package I got. I thought Cadillac was supposed to innovative not a follower to foreign car companys. The funny thing about it is I can never remember the names of all the models with nothing but letters in them. The only new names I can remember off top is Deville and Escalade, and STS,I still call the STS a seville. I'm not really into new cars anyways they're cheaply made and don't have half the style of classics. Thats how I feel and I'm only 22 years old.

But a CTS will run circles around a DeVille, and it only has a 3.6 liter V6. Not only that, but if you actually sit in a CTS and touch and compare the fit, finnish, and quality between it (and the new STS) and a DeVille (or old STS), it's like night and day. The new Cadillacs are in fact better made, faster, tighter, and in my opinion look better than the old ones. Hell, the new STS is already getting accolades from people and they are saying it's hands down a better vehicle than the BMW 545i. The truth of the matter is your Cadillac nameplate, the one you know and love, would cease to exist if they didn't make drastic, polarizing changes. Because for every one of you who yearn for the big tanks they once made, there's 3 of me who want a tight, sophistocated, luxurious touring sedan. We're the ones who enjoy driving stick, keeping the engine revs at redline (and trust me, an engine built like the 3.6 is designed to play all day at 6000 rpm, whereas you try that in a DeVille and you're gonna blow off the valve covers!), and driving through the twisties. That's what the essence of driving is all about.

I could never drive an automatic. Never have, never will.

I think this thread is pretty interesting.

GM had to know that Cadillac purists would rue the day that the old name plates went dodo. But they also knew that in order to capture new, younger buyers (of the not already Cadillac loving sort) they would have to create a totally new image. Something not easily done when all your new cars still have the same names as the previous machines that the new, younger buyers despise. Status is important to the young American buyer, perhaps above all else. And the statuses of "Eldorado" and "Deville" don't exactly imply hipness.

I think that's why the Deville is the last to have it's name swapped. GM knows that only traditional American Luxury purists would buy a Deville. Leave that car alone and let it move from the dealer lots to the driveways of older buyers (whether you love the Deville or not, that's who buys the most of 'em) and revamp the rest of your lineup.

When the last of the more traditional Baby Boomers have purchased their final cars (hopefully Devilles) before they retire and leave the market, then you update the last dinosaur and steam full ahead with your newly growing niche.

Sucks, but it's gotta happen. I like what Fastball said. Tradition forgotten, you have to sell what the market wants.

Believe me, I don't want to come off as an insensitive snob. I really do understand the history and panache behind the wreath and crest. I also understand that the last time Cadillac really ruled the luxury market was the 1950's. Let's just forget the imports for a second. What sort of industry leading innovations did Cadillac bring about pre-1960. Tons. All the way back to the first electrically cranked motor in 1912. Of course they had the first auto headlamp and climate control systems. I belive cruise control was first offered on 1959 Cadillacs, which also had impressive style (I think the 59's are classic, timeless, and nothing short of a Ferrari is as beautiful). And they were built better than any car in the world at that time.

Into the 1960's, however, Cadillacs were still luxurious, but stopped pushing the engineering boundaries. Innovative products relied less on gadgets and gizmos (like a tellescopic steering wheel) and more on real performance and technology. Overhead cam engines, 4 wheel independent suspensions, and proper weight ballance were already technologies available to the passenger car production segment, but Cadillac passed on that, offering heated mirrors and power trunk lid pulldown motors.

By the 80's, the directions were clear and defined. If you had (at the time) 25k to put on a car, and you cared less about driving and more about style, you bought a Cadillac. But if you had that cash but wanted to really enjoy driving and handling your car, you went to MB or BMW. Where the emphasis was on independent suspensions, 4 wheel disc ABS brakes (I should add MB had them standard on all models by 1985), tighter turning radii, overhead cams, and just a whole different dynamic of driving. The photograph I still remember to this day from Road and Track when they put the 1985 Eldorado against a Mercedes 560 SEC. In the slalom, the Eldorado pulled about 20 mph slower than the MB. But that was just half of it...... even at 20 mph slower, on one of the turns, the front inside tire was toed in till the rim scraped the pavement, and the rear outside tire was about a foot off the ground. Smoke everywhere, and the caption read simply "No camera tricks, folks."

Cadillac had glimpses of brilliance in the late 1980's and 1990's. I give them a little credit for the Allante. But again, the emphasis was on the F-14 digital instrument cluster, and not on rear wheel drive or more power under the hood. I guarantee the Allante would have been a tremendous success if they had made it rear wheel drive and added about 100 horses to it.

By the end of the 1990's Cadillacs biggest fault was not embracing rear wheel drive for the entire lineup. The cushy ride characteristics were falling out of love with most people my age as well. So as they revamp the whole linup, a name change is only necessary. Most cars in this segment are designated by either numerical, alphabetical, or a combination of both characters. And they have less name tags on the car as well. Have you noticed the CTS or new STS? Only the wreath and crest and the 3 letters are on the decklid or grille. Nothing more. Not even the word Cadillac. To me, that's impressive. Because everyone knows a Mercedes by the 3 pointed star, everyone knows a BMW by the whirling blue and white propeller, so everyone will now know a Cadillac by the wreath and crest, and the vehicle by 3 letters. Short, crisp, and to the point.

fast , nothing you say there is false .....

You look today and BMW in large part is the "Standard of the world" it is frequnetly the unobtainble benchmark(outside "I drive") for all other automakers when it comes to driveing dynamics

I love caddys but i know good cars when i see them

fast , nothing you say there is false .....

You look today and BMW in large part is the "Standard of the world" it is frequnetly the unobtainble benchmark(outside "I drive") for all other automakers when it comes to driveing dynamics

I love caddys but i know good cars when i see them

I used to drive a co-worker's 1994 325i sedan quite a bit. At 100,000 miles, that car was still tight, responsive, smooth, solid, and rattle free. You could easily do 100 mph in a straight line (which you can with a DeVille), but weaving through trafic was just as easy (quite a bit more scary with a DeVille, not that I would know :halo: )

I drove a 2003 CTS 3.2 manual last year, and I thought I was driving that 325i. That's what made me converted back to Cadillac. GM has achieved what they set out to accomplish in my book, and I'm not emarrased to say I want to own a Detroit built vehicle again.

I don't think Cadillac should forego tradition. Without your roots, you're nothing. That was the nice thing about the company, namely, for decades those names were there and became respected and known. If my Grandpa had a Fleetwood in the 1950's, I think its great If could buy one now. I also don't think the recent success of the Cadillac brand is mainly due to changing new models names to numbers, etc. It's (partly) because the CTS is a good BMW fighter, for example, and the quality of the overall brand has improved drastically. I think they did good with the CTS, and the public loves it, however, I for one prefer names over numbers. Names are easier for older people to remember and they may not get confused with others. If every other car company jumps in the lake, why should Cadillac? What is so special about our generation that would make a traditional car company almost completely change everything to be a MB or BMW wannabe. It's got to be sales, for $$$$$$$$$.

I guess I like tradition also, but some equate "the numbers game" as the equivalent of "selling your soul" to merely become popular. I think it's fine to add new models, but keep the names.

What is so special about our generation that would make a traditional car company almost completely change everything to be a MB or BMW wannabe. It's got to be sales, for $$$$$$$$$.

I guess I like tradition also, but some equate "the numbers game" as the equivalent of "selling your soul" to merely become popular. I think it's fine to add new models, but keep the names.


You are 100% correct. It is about the sales and the dollar. Because if the trend continued as it has the last 10 years, Cadillac would eventually have dissappeared. Gone bye-bye. Would you rather that have happened?

BTW, what would you call the CTS? Catera? Catera Touring Sedan? That would look too crowded and busy on the decklid. CTS and the wreath and crest is all you need.

You are 100% correct. It is about the sales and the dollar. Because if the trend continued as it has the last 10 years, Cadillac would eventually have dissappeared. Gone bye-bye. Would you rather that have happened?

BTW, what would you call the CTS? Catera? Catera Touring Sedan? That would look too crowded and busy on the decklid. CTS and the wreath and crest is all you need.

I know, I guess they had to play with the names, etc. to help survive but it's a little hard to swallow for some. They are trying to re-invent the brand to a degree, but I would at least like a "Deville" to remain. I think if they brought back a full-sized rwd FLEETWOOD, it would be the talk of the auto news world.

About names, I'll have to think about a name for the CTS. Look at Lincoln going with the name "Zepher." Personally, I don't equate "Zepher" with quality, or luxury, and certainly NOT Lincoln. I think of the crappy Mercury cars by that name. So we will have to see if the "old" name hurts the Lincoln brand. If it doesn't, perhaps they could have named the CTS the "Catera 2" or something? :p

One thing I'm sure of, Ford won't rename a new model the "Pinto." I hope! :suspect:

Because if the trend continued as it has the last 10 years, Cadillac would eventually have dissappeared.

Actually I would have thought there would have been enough Baby Boomers retiring in the next couple of years to keep the old "ways" profitable? I think the reputation of the 1980's Caddies hurt the brand name more than anything, not to mention many luxury buyers today want the "quality" of a luxury Lexus. That doesn't help either, but Cadillac certainly has appealed to younger buyers and I guess that's something they had to (gulp) do.

Fall quarter of last year, Cadillac had their best sales quarter since 1989! The world's most respected auto magazines (R&T and C&D) have said that the CTS is quite possibly the car that saved Cadillac.

Pretty strong statement if you ask me.

You are 100% correct. It is about the sales and the dollar. Because if the trend continued as it has the last 10 years, Cadillac would eventually have dissappeared. Gone bye-bye. Would you rather that have happened?

BTW, what would you call the CTS? Catera? Catera Touring Sedan? That would look too crowded and busy on the decklid. CTS and the wreath and crest is all you need.

Calling a Catera a CTS is fine the name Catera hasn't been around for over 50 years. I'm mainly just concerned about Deville, or the Eldorado also if it had lasted. The classic names I don't think Classic names would make a potential buyer who liked the design not buy it.

But...Lincoln Town Car & LS and Cadillac deVille & Seville outsold all foreign makes models, added together up to & including those priced at or under $55,000 last year (2003). So, there are ALOT of buyers who still like the big, soft, cushy car. They outsold the BMW 3 & 5 and the M-B C & E class, as well as all Saabs & Volvos and the Acura RS, as well all Jaguars. That's alot of buyers. Look, just on this site, how many 16-30 year olds are driveing deVilles! I feel that anyone who has ever been in a fairly bad car accident, and possibly sustained some amount of injury, would not want to be in a 3-series or a C-Class doing 65MPH on the freeway when the worst thing that could happen.....happens! I think they rather be in a Fleetwood or a Town Car. I know I would :)

But...Lincoln Town Car & LS and Cadillac deVille & Seville outsold all foreign makes models, added together up to & including those priced at or under $55,000 last year (2003). So, there are ALOT of buyers who still like the big, soft, cushy car. They outsold the BMW 3 & 5 and the M-B C & E class, as well as all Saabs & Volvos and the Acura RS, as well all Jaguars. That's alot of buyers. Look, just on this site, how many 16-30 year olds are driveing deVilles! I feel that anyone who has ever been in a fairly bad car accident, and possibly sustained some amount of injury, would not want to be in a 3-series or a C-Class doing 65MPH on the freeway when the worst thing that could happen.....happens! I think they rather be in a Fleetwood or a Town Car. I know I would :)

My uncle is an EMS/firerfighter. I can't tell you how many accidents he's responded to with people in BMWs, MBs, and Hondas (yes, all Hondas) that the people have litteraly walked away from. That doesn't always happen with Cadillacs or Lincolns, contrary to popular belief.

Mercedes has a video from the Autobahn surveylance which they use to tout their safety record...... a guy in a 500SL convertable doing about 120 mph was drunk, lost control, flipped the car in the ditch, and walked away..... he was not wearing his seatbelt, and the roof was DOWN! (All Mercedes convertables have a rather large and heavy bar which flips out of behind the seat headrests within .5 seconds which shields the passenger compartment when it senses abnormal yaw and pitch movement)

Mercedes, BMWs, and Audis are about the safest cars on the planet. BMW and Honda are the only automakers without a single airbag recall in their history.

Large cars do not = safer. Safety is engineered. If you take a physics class, you would learn how impact zones, and strategically designed materials and the placement of those materials can make a car very safe. It doesn't matter if the car looks demolished after the accident (which a well designed car will be totalled in a severe accident).

BMW and Honda are the only automakers without a single airbag recall in their history.

Large cars do not = safer. Safety is engineered. If you take a physics class, you would learn how impact zones, and strategically designed materials and the placement of those materials can make a car very safe. It doesn't matter if the car looks demolished after the accident (which a well designed car will be totalled in a severe accident).

I don't know about the BMW's in the U.S. but two years ago here the M3's were recalled for faulty airbags. How I know this, my dentist friend (who also owns an S2000) got the recall notice and he was scared that hitting a bump would set it off. It was also on CBC News.

About safety, the NHTSA, Edmunds, and just about every news story on TV would seem to disagree with you. They refer to a heavier car as being safer because of simple physics. Yes, small cars are safer now because of technology, but put that technology into larger cars today, and who will win a head on collision. The Volvo S80 is all 5 stars because of this, and my bet for safest car on the planet. The S60 (smaller) is no longer 5 stars the last time I checked. I'll drive my Grand Marquis into your Honda and we'll see who walks away. I've also read that smaller cars' crumple zones are fine for a single impact, however if you are involved in a chain reaction multiple car "pile-up" on the highway, you'd better hope you got some more metal surrounding you because larger cars supposedly do better in multiple hits after the crumple zones are spent.

I don’t see a problem with changing the names. However I am part of the younger (24 years old) group that into Cadillac’s. I can't think of a time I have ever describe my car as "Deville". I always say DTS.. And when people refer to my car they refer to it as a DTS, not Deville. In my circle of peers, it’s more of an insult to call a persons car a Deville if it is a DTS... A person owning a DTS will correct you very fast if you refer to there vehicle as a Deville.. My peers think that DTS is prestigious, & highly sought out of. Even in the rap music, very seldom will you here them say Deville, they usually now say DTS.. The word "Deville" is now associated with the base model / rental car model...

what song says DTS? on the new Young Buck cd track no. 5 he says "gold grilles, Coupe DEVILLES sittin on 22s...." i know hes talking about the older Devilles but i havent heard any rapper refer to their car as DTS. and most rappers talk about Escalades. Youngbloodz talk about Devilles and Fleetwoods.

what song says DTS? on the new Young Buck cd track no. 5 he says "gold grilles, Coupe DEVILLES sittin on 22s...." i know hes talking about the older Devilles but i havent heard any rapper refer to their car as DTS. and most rappers talk about Escalades. Youngbloodz talk about Devilles and Fleetwoods.


It was Nappy Roots.

Maybe the 3 rap songs you heard did but, Deville is much more used in RAP. Especially "Coupe DeVille". In some Coupe DeVilles are more respected.
Maybe Cadillac should make a new Coupe Deville.

I don’t see a problem with changing the names. However I am part of the younger (24 years old) group that into Cadillac’s. I can't think of a time I have ever describe my car as "Deville". I always say DTS.. And when people refer to my car they refer to it as a DTS, not Deville. In my circle of peers, it’s more of an insult to call a persons car a Deville if it is a DTS... A person owning a DTS will correct you very fast if you refer to there vehicle as a Deville.. My peers think that DTS is prestigious, & highly sought out of. Even in the rap music, very seldom will you here them say Deville, they usually now say DTS.. The word "Deville" is now associated with the base model / rental car model...
even though ive never heard dts in a rap song, i totally agree. ive always thought of deville as the base rental model. me, all my freinds always refered to my car as a DTS. DTS has always been looked at as higher than a deville.

what song says DTS? on the new Young Buck cd track no. 5 he says "gold grilles, Coupe DEVILLES sittin on 22s...." i know hes talking about the older Devilles but i havent heard any rapper refer to their car as DTS. and most rappers talk about Escalades. Youngbloodz talk about Devilles and Fleetwoods.

Slim Thug, & Mike Jone just to name a few. I listen to more underground southern rap.. Usually when talking about the the current model deville they say DTS... DTS distugishes the men from the boys, the want to be ballers from the real ballers... For example.. A guy could have a base model Deville with $10,000 of aftermarket stuff on it.. And I could come through with a all factory DTS on Vogues and he will automatically fall to second place... People who know what cadillacs are about won't care how much money he has put into it,, all they see is a rental car. It might not be like that where you are from, but where i'm from if you rolling deville and it not dts, you not rolling..

i understand where your gettin at im just sayin ive never heard it in rap songs but ill listen for it. i like 'em old school Caddies. i almost got a 2000 DHS but got my 93 Fleetwood instead. what was Nappy Roots? if you're talking about that lyric that is straight from the new Young Buck cd. i was listening to that song while i wrote that post.

i understand where your gettin at im just sayin ive never heard it in rap songs but ill listen for it. i like 'em old school Caddies. i almost got a 2000 DHS but got my 93 Fleetwood instead. what was Nappy Roots? if you're talking about that lyric that is straight from the new Young Buck cd. i was listening to that song while i wrote that post.

I said Nappy Roots because thats the only group I can remember saying DTS in a song called "Dogs & Hogs". they say "DTS's" in the hook.

Slim Thug, & Mike Jone just to name a few. I listen to more underground southern rap.. Usually when talking about the the current model deville they say DTS... DTS distugishes the men from the boys, the want to be ballers from the real ballers... For example.. A guy could have a base model Deville with $10,000 of aftermarket stuff on it.. And I could come through with a all factory DTS on Vogues and he will automatically fall to second place... People who know what cadillacs are about won't care how much money he has put into it,, all they see is a rental car. It might not be like that where you are from, but where i'm from if you rolling deville and it not dts, you not rolling..

A "Deville" with screens in it, a 5th wheel, elbows and vogues will turn more heads than those 3 letters with some vogues. Most people don't even know the difference they just see its a Cadillac.

A "Deville" with screens in it, a 5th wheel, elbows and vogues will turn more heads than those 3 letters with some vogues. Most people don't even know the difference they just see its a Cadillac.

Thats why I said "to people that really know about Cadillacs"..

Thats why I said "to people that really know about Cadillacs"..

thats not the point, swangin & bangin, swangin' on 4 vogues, you don't even have Swangers on your DTS, do you even know what SWANGERS are?

thats not the point, swangin & bangin, swangin' on 4 vogues, you don't even have Swangers on your DTS, do you even know what SWANGERS are?

45 spoke, 30 spoke, aka 84's with the poke out adapter = Swangers... Some of my homies got swangers.. When I say swangin, I am talking about a method of rollin.. When me and homies go rollin we Hoggin all the lanes and swangin lane to lane, breakin boys off!!!

45 spoke, 30 spoke, aka 84's with the poke out adapter = Swangers... Some of my homies got swangers.. When I say swangin, I am talking about a method of rollin.. When me and homies go rollin we Hoggin all the lanes and swangin lane to lane, breakin boys off!!!

alright man, just checkin

I can't stand the new name thing either.... Although I do have to say... previosuly, they were not doing too good.... They may have even gone the way of Oldsmobile... which I was sad to see go....

...Although name changes aren't everything, Oldsmobile got rid of Cutlass, Eighty Eight and Toronado in place of Achevia, Intrige, Alero and Aurora... and even changed the design of the emblem.... that didn't help any....

... Cadillac also restyled the wreatha nd crest... a few years back, the DeVille name was changed from the nice, fancy script to the newer bold type writing...

I am sorry.. I can not support that argument about DeVille vs. DTS... the fact a DTS is only what $5k more then a base DeVille? dosn't really make it "how dare you call my car a DeVille" not like a C-class vs. S-class....

I have always called my '93 either a DeVille or a Coupe DeVille... of course, that is the name.... nobody else seems to have a problem with that... I call the '79 Sedan DeVille d'Elegance either "the '79" or DeVille.... my 1989 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight Royal is the only car I really change the name around, I call it "The Olds" and hardly use Eighty Eight

I agree that they should keep the DeVille name... atleast.... make that the traditonal luxry car.. floaty and such... then have the Fleetwood has a highly optioned DeVille...

I remember a few years back, Cadillac wasn't thought to be anything special with younger people... and to be honest.... today, nobody ever considers my car an old persons car... even the '79... many references to a boat, and such, which is cool... but nobody, even people my age ever mention old persons car....

I guess it is just the change in the automotive industry as a whole.... persoanlly if I saw a '55 Coupe DeVille (car I want besides a '59 Eldo conv.) without any of the emblems, or "Cadillac" on the side... I would think it is a sin.... Atleast Cadillac still has the name "Cadillac" in the fnacy script writing with the wreath and Crest.....

All in all, here is how I see it.... I will forever have my 1993 Coupe DeVille, and my 1979 Sedan DeVille d'Elegance.... those names aren't going to change.... also, that '55 Coupe DeVille and '59 Eldo will always be waiting for me to purchess them....

... out of my 3 cars I own, all are bench seat, colum shift, could be considered a boat, have a smooth and floaty ride, handling was not top priority, all have good power, and are faster then my friends econo cars (Jetta, Civic, Accord etc...) I just like the luxury cars....

Plus, who isn't to say the names will be brought back? Cadillac did it with the Sixty Special... Pointac did it with the GTO, VW, Ford, Chrysler etc.... give it 30 years, and we may see these names come back.... when something is around for too long... it gets old and played out... give it a rest for a while, and people want it back.....

This is from a 17 year old... I have all of you beat :)

you make good points. nicely put, i hate the fact that the name is going to get changed and id love to see another Fleetwood but the fact of the matter is seeing as Cadillac is starting to go to the younger generation who already like MB and BMW and Lexus, what do you think theyre gonna do? certainly not keep the "old names for old people" but change the names to be like these other companies. its the way it is. its money. and it aint gonna just be the younger generation but also people that drive these foreign cars already to get them back to buying domestic.

you make good points. nicely put, i hate the fact that the name is going to get changed and id love to see another Fleetwood but the fact of the matter is seeing as Cadillac is starting to go to the younger generation who already like MB and BMW and Lexus, what do you think theyre gonna do? certainly not keep the "old names for old people" but change the names to be like these other companies. its the way it is. its money. and it aint gonna just be the younger generation but also people that drive these foreign cars already to get them back to buying domestic.

I'm completely feeling you on Cadillac going after the younger generation that is buying foreign.. When one of my close friends (both of us 24) and I decided to go buy new cars we were planning to go get s500 Benz's... But I changed my mind.. I opted for a Cadillac instead. It's was just something about the Cadillac DTS that was calling my name. I think that all the gadgets that are in the DTS took the cake.. The touch screen navigation \ dvd player, night vision, voice recognition, xm satellite, on star, & massaging seats just to name a few.. My friend went ahead and got the Benz, yet he has asked me on 3 different occasion if he could roll my Cadillac and I take his Benz, I tell him nope and that he should of bought one..

just think when the foreign cars came over with all their front wheel drive crap and Cadillac (well GM) changed alot of their products to fwd. times change. now dont get me wrong or nothin, i turned down a 2000 Deville DHS for a 93 Fleetwood cause i like the older Cadillacs better (style, the only thing hard about doing that was the interior styling on the DHS, it was beautiful). but these guys over Cadillac have to compete in TODAY'S market.

Cadillac is trying hard to get back to the point when they could actually be seriously refered to as the standard of the world. From all I've seen and heard, the new STS has even better fit and finish than a 5 Series, and is as silent inside as an LS430 on any road surface. C&D was very impressed with their first look at it, and you all know how tough is is for a domestic company to impress those guys.

It's not that it's confusing, it's that Cadillac is forgetting it's roots. As CDVRob mentioned before, it's like Chevy getting rid of the name Corvette. If Ford renamed the Mustang the MSC (M-Series Sport Coupe), or back in the day if Dodge called the Charger the CPC (C-Series Performance Coupe) would they be memorable at all? Hell I like Mercedes cars, some look real sharp but hell if I remember what they're called.

In my opinion, part of a car's greatness is it's name. A Mustang is a pony, small, fast, and graceful much like the car. The Charger, a ram, bull, whatever charges furiously and fearsomely, much like the Dodge Charger. The Buick Regal, regal is a term that relates to royalty and the fine.

Cadillac's names aren't very furious but they defined the name of luxury from 1903 to the day the first Cadillac had it's name butchered into an acronym. A lot of car companies now are building retros and bringing back names that have been lost in the sands of time. The rebirths of the GTO, Thunderbird, Zephyr, and Chevy's concept Bel-Air are appealing to those who remember watching their chromed out big bodied ancestors rolling down their streets back in a past where gas was $.69 a gallon, candy was a nickel, and where a car was a car!

Thank you and good night!
*Bows*



no no no, Cadillac hasnt forgot their roots. they know their roots and they are moving on. i saw a show on Speed Channel the other day and they were talking about old Cadillac engines (30s and 40s) and how they were built for speed. so now what? well they were built to go fast and were luxury cars, and what is the new STS and CTS-V? speed and luxury. so no they havent forgot their roots, they know them, they are just moving along in todays market trying to be the top company again. the company that was the envy of all other car companies.

Just a thought. Did anyone think that they wanted the Cadillac name out more than the car name itself? consider this if you ask a person who bought the car as an appliance what car they drive, if it was a Deville, they would say a Deville. If you asked the same person who had the DTS they are more than likely to say I bought a Cadillac. Look at what Acura did to the Integra. They got rid of the name so more people would say they bought an Acura instead of the letters on the back of the trunk.

People who buy Corvettes say they own Vetts not Chevys. The Corvette became its own brand that some people do not associate with Chevy. That is why they came out with that SSR, to get the Chevy name in front again, and to build the the brand.

Personally I have always been about M.B and BMW and Audi's and to be perfectly honest with you I would never buy a American designed car due to the fact the were not true luxury performance cars or geared to a younger buyer, as well as the fact that they were ugly old people cars. So time fades away and as I got older I started selling cars for who else? Caddy! truth be told since I first saw the CTS I was in love and then to see the new STS was amazing. Cadillac (GM) is on the right track with their design and where they want to go in the future.When you see round headlights you think M.B so cadillac is taking charge and making damn sure people know a Caddy when the see one coming. Now no offense to any "older" members but the truth is if GM does not want caddy to go down like Olds did they need to stop selling to old people and start making kids want this car. GM should thank the rap industry for "Blowing-up" the Escalade and making every video with one in every shot. Now the use XLR!!! so we can only hope with the president using the new DTS it helps push this as Cadillac steps up more and more, just think you all were bitching about this company going in the hole 5 years ago, and now we are rolling out a SRX and XLR in 2004 a STS in 2005 a DTS in 2006 a "new" CTS in 2007 and a all new Escalade which will be the First real all Cadillac car in 2008(not a yukon-like caddy)

keep in mind that Cadillac is going to this Letter thing so that people know we have three cars and thats all. . . . try explaing to a new customer that the Deville and DHS are basic the same its just different options. . . now you can come in and get the exact options you want and they all come in a new DTS also you can no longer pull up behind someone and say "OH the have the cheapie car" Deville while the only reason the paid 6 grand more was for the shades in the back of their DHS. . .:hmm:

Hmm, so what's the deal with the Escalade? Why not change it to the ERX? They must not want to lose the image and appeal currently associated with the name. The fact that they'd abandon the Deville name means they must think it has negative equity associated with it. Change to DTS is a way to keep the Deville association while still "fooling" others who aren't as "in the know" about the car market.

In any case, I think if they're going to keep Escalade as a name, they might as well keep the Deville name. The 2006 DTS will have a different look to it, similar to the edgy A&S them the CTS and STS do, but it's still not going to have made the transition to the level of German-fighting vehicle that the CTS and STS have. It's still priced lower and is FWD and is meant to retain the older market that the current Deville tends to attract.

Anyway, I'm a fan of the way Cadillac has remade itself, and I think they're on the right path, but if/when they do come out with an S-class/7-series fighter, whether that will be the 2010 DTS or not, in a way I hope they don't completely abandon the market that has so faithfully kept the brand afloat during the past 20 or so years. There are still people in this country that prefer large FWD cars that are reasonably luxurious and yet priced around $50k. If Cadillac abandons this market, I guess it'll be time to buy Lincoln/Ford stock, as Town Car sales will go through the roof...

Believe me, I don't want to come off as an insensitive snob. I really do understand the history and panache behind the wreath and crest. I also understand that the last time Cadillac really ruled the luxury market was the 1950's. Let's just forget the imports for a second. What sort of industry leading innovations did Cadillac bring about pre-1960. Tons. All the way back to the first electrically cranked motor in 1912. Of course they had the first auto headlamp and climate control systems. I belive cruise control was first offered on 1959 Cadillacs, which also had impressive style (I think the 59's are classic, timeless, and nothing short of a Ferrari is as beautiful). And they were built better than any car in the world at that time.

Umm- you must be what? 15? My uncle had a 1967 Eldorado in 1967, no finer production car anywhere in the world. Came with FWD as well, as far as I know, it was the first in the world, at least in luxury models. In the 50's, they had automatic hi-beam adjustments and their radios were way ahead of even Rolls Royce (which still uses a Caddy Transmission) right into the 1960's. My grandfather owned the first Caddy dealership in the upper midwest and drove every high end model they ever produced- gave my dad a brand new 46 Eldo as a HS graduation present. My dad gave my mom a new Eldo the year I was born- 1959. Still my favorite all time car model. Caddies had the first automatic transmissions as well as the first air-conditioning systems- not to mention hard top convertibles. Power brakes, power steering, etc.

Into the 1960's, however, Cadillacs were still luxurious, but stopped pushing the engineering boundaries. Innovative products relied less on gadgets and gizmos (like a tellescopic steering wheel) and more on real performance and technology. Overhead cam engines, 4 wheel independent suspensions, and proper weight ballance were already technologies available to the passenger car production segment, but Cadillac passed on that, offering heated mirrors and power trunk lid pulldown motors.

In the 1960's. Americans, for the most part, laughed at little European cars and wouldn't even consider driving a ricer. Our freeways were wide open and for the most part went in straight lines from one end of the country to the other. What we had were big families and even bigger cars to haul them in. Anything small like a goat was considered a "kid's" car and a man was 21 years of age. People still drove great distances all the time and what you wanted was ride that floated. I have owned two Porsches in my day- they are the epitome of "fast and furious" and are not fun driving on a 2,000 mile journey, though I did do a 30,000 mile road trip in a 911 (1987-1988), it was a tight, bumpy ride. I would much rather do it in an STS. In the 1960's, sports cars rode like crap. And their interiors left alot to be desired- I know, I was around then.

By the 80's, the directions were clear and defined. If you had (at the time) 25k to put on a car, and you cared less about driving and more about style, you bought a Cadillac. But if you had that cash but wanted to really enjoy driving and handling your car, you went to MB or BMW. Where the emphasis was on independent suspensions, 4 wheel disc ABS brakes (I should add MB had them standard on all models by 1985), tighter turning radii, overhead cams, and just a whole different dynamic of driving. The photograph I still remember to this day from Road and Track when they put the 1985 Eldorado against a Mercedes 560 SEC. In the slalom, the Eldorado pulled about 20 mph slower than the MB. But that was just half of it...... even at 20 mph slower, on one of the turns, the front inside tire was toed in till the rim scraped the pavement, and the rear outside tire was about a foot off the ground. Smoke everywhere, and the caption read simply "No camera tricks, folks."

Again, the Eldo was not built to slalom, it was built for the American Hi-way which has no hairpin turns to speak of. But by 1985 GM had other problems. Not the least of which were labor unions- who deliberately began sabotaging GM vehicles in the late 70's during contract talks. higher gas prices (gas in 1969 was $.19/gal not .69) which jumped to $2.00/gal in the early 1980's. They also had an image problem which was both real and imagined. The imagined was that anything AMerican made was bad and anything foreign made was good- pure bunk. The other that was real, was that the Caddy had become associated with low brow pimp/gangsters and no self respecting member of the middle/upper middle class wanted to be associated with that.

Cadillac had glimpses of brilliance in the late 1980's and 1990's. I give them a little credit for the Allante. But again, the emphasis was on the F-14 digital instrument cluster, and not on rear wheel drive or more power under the hood. I guarantee the Allante would have been a tremendous success if they had made it rear wheel drive and added about 100 horses to it.

THe Northstar engine was upon introduction, the finest production engine in the world. And as for FWD being "no good"- well that all depends on where you live. Here in the North, where it snows, I will not have anything that is not at least FWD or AWD. Two weeks ago during a (minor by our standards) 8" snowstorm, my FWD caddy with stabilitrac went barreling up the center, snow bound lane of the interstate at 60 MPH, meanwhile, your famed BMWs, MBs, Audis and assorted Ricers were in the two outside lanes going 20-30 MPH and staring in disbelief at my Caddy as it went rolling by them as if on dry pavement.

I drove cars in that kind of weather when they were all RWD and I would never go back- never. I travel a lot in the Northern Rockies and would never be without either FWD or AWD.

By the end of the 1990's Cadillacs biggest fault was not embracing rear wheel drive for the entire lineup. The cushy ride characteristics were falling out of love with most people my age as well. So as they revamp the whole linup, a name change is only necessary. Most cars in this segment are designated by either numerical, alphabetical, or a combination of both characters. And they have less name tags on the car as well. Have you noticed the CTS or new STS? Only the wreath and crest and the 3 letters are on the decklid or grille. Nothing more. Not even the word Cadillac. To me, that's impressive. Because everyone knows a Mercedes by the 3 pointed star, everyone knows a BMW by the whirling blue and white propeller, so everyone will now know a Cadillac by the wreath and crest, and the vehicle by 3 letters. Short, crisp, and to the point.

See above, RWD is a new thing to you kiddies. It is by far the best way to build a sport car as it is more efficient to push then to pull. But the reality is, is that you cannot find anywhere besides a track to drive a car much past 80 anymore and that's only in spurts. Sure, I can get "out west" in the middle of nowhere and crank it up, but that is rare and not every day driving. For driving around "town" and under all driving conditions, FWD or AWD is the only way to go- it will go when RWD will sit and spin- traction control or no. It simply only works on rear engine cars in inclement winters.

Would I have bought a Caddy if the gang bangers still drove them? Nope, I bought it because nowadays they drive MBs and such. GM would be well advised to stay away from the "bling bling" crap and concentrate on performance and luxury as well as safety. I don't see MB advertising to the "home boys" and neither should GM.

I'm under the impression that the world was about RWD, then switched to FWD for economic purposes. Now that Detroit has woken up to the fact that many associate RWD with luxury, they're switching back again.

FWD is good for gas economy, increased cabin space, and reasonable go in snow. But it doesn't belong in sport-luxury cars. The market of the ES330 and the Deville would be very happy with the handling of FWD cars, I'm sure, but people who are going to be around to keep Cadillac afloat for the next 30-40 years want the performance of RWD.

FWD should be relegated to economy cars like the Cobalt, Civic, and Jetta. I'd even submit that cars, like the ES or Deville, targeting people who want luxury with no modicum of sporty handling whatsoever, would do fine to have FWD drivetrains. The only problem with that is FWD has the stigma of "cheap," which is not befitting for luxury companies. And especially for Cadillac, which is trying to remake its entire image into that of sport-luxury, FWD is a no go. Gotta be RWD or AWD.

I'm under the impression that the world was about RWD, then switched to FWD for economic purposes. Now that Detroit has woken up to the fact that many associate RWD with luxury, they're switching back again.

FWD is good for gas economy, increased cabin space, and reasonable go in snow. But it doesn't belong in sport-luxury cars. The market of the ES330 and the Deville would be very happy with the handling of FWD cars, I'm sure, but people who are going to be around to keep Cadillac afloat for the next 30-40 years want the performance of RWD.



Read what I wrote, the world's first luxury car to have FWD was the 1967 Eldorado. At $6,500.00 it was not cheap, not when a Ford Mustang was 1500.00. It was first class luxury and I guarantee you that no one was thinking about "economy" in 1967, not when a gallon of gas was under $.20. Just the Opposite, cars got bigger and bigger right through the 1970's. Cars that were once small became huge. FWD is not good for gas mileage, just the opposite. Like I said, pushing is more efficient then pulling. That's why a horse harness is engineered to push, not pull.

Rear wheel drive is not a winter driving condition option, it's just silly- unless you want to wait a few days for the roads to get cleared. If you don't live in the real snow belt then spare me the nonsense about what's good and isn't good. I grew up with RWD cars, except for 3 GM models that's all there was back then. They sucked in the snow. And in the snow belt, that possibility is 6 months out of the year. Why do you think they became so popular? Why do you think sales of non FWD or AWD fell off so far? Why do you think "SUVs" have become so popular? You can't even sell a RWD truck to anyone up here, they have no value as they suck in the winter or in mud.

Now, my former mother in law just bought the new STS last september, she got the V8 AWD model. The RWD model was not even considered and she's in her 60's and will be buying Caddies for another 20 years. She, like me, picks out a new car and writes a check for it- it is people like us that drive caddy sales, not kids with interest payments.

Everyone I know who has a RWD car also has a "winter" car, usually an SUV to compensate. Most of them end up regretting it as it's not very practical keeping your favorite car locked up for months on end. When I owned my Porsches, I also owned a 4X4 for winter driving and hunting trips. I still own a 4X4, but I enjoy driving my Caddy. After 20 years of driving 4X4's, they are oh so "ho hum" no matter what you do to them.

When I see grey haired men driving a Porsche or some other similar car, I laugh, and so do the women they are trying to impress. Why? Because it's obvious they were poor when young and are trying to recapture the youth they never had. I don't care if a twenty year old thinks my car is an "old mans" car since there is nothing a twenty year old has to say that has any meaning to me except "can I get you another...?" or "do you want me to check your tires?".

BTW, I date women in their early 30's, career oriented professional types and they like my car. In fact, every one who sees it thinks it simply beautiful. Whenever it's at the dealer for service, the prospective buyers always ask what model it is. It's funny to hear the salesmen tell them and then say "we don't make that model that way anymore" and then when asked about the color - "we don't make that color anymore". It's a gold metallic flake (1969 color) golden anniversary Deville, loaded to the max- it goes good with a pair of blue jeans, hand made Tony Llamas and a hand made white shirt.

Nope, I stand by my above comments whether GM believes them or not- it wasn't people like me that destroyed the image of the car, it was the negative society types. No one who can afford to write checks for $50,000.00 + cars wants to be associated with gang bangers. In fact, no one does at all- just ask the NBA about their plummeting ticket sales and television audience since they embraced the "bling bling" culture.

As far as performance goes, just where are you going to go at 100 + MPH? Hmmm? I used to drive across the Dakotas and Montana at 120+ MPH in a Porsche for hours on end. It's a straight line, for the most part. That is one of the few areas in the country where no one really cares anymore and is empty enough to not have cops everywhere. Normal city driving does not require a car like that- in fact it's rather frustrating since you can never just open it up and let it rip without ending up in court with your lawyer. Oh sure, you can get by here and there but the longer you own it, the more tickets you'll get.

All I care about is whether I can pass when I need to and can I take a clover leaf without slowing down. I can do both with my Caddy and I can do it without spilling a drop of coffee on a pair of 200.00 slacks or a silk tie. Not only that, I can do it with one hand on the wheel while listening to my hard rock cranked way up.

I had to put an after market Alpine in my 911, the factory stereo was kinda sucky, even for those days.

As A final aside, when I travel out West and am in resort towns, I always bump into Europeans who just love the car. Think it's exquisite. And they live in countries where MB are used as taxi cabs. Go figure. But then all of the awful drivers I see now-a-days are either driving Volvos, Saabs, Audis or Subarus. It's like they're brain dead. I guess it's a question of intelligence and taste. And before any of you try to tell me how much better a Benz or BMW is, I would consider the fact that these companies require their owners to have the vehicles serviced- all service only at their dealerships. Porsche has always been this way. It makes a huge difference in the car's long term life span. Having joe blow work on it for little things to save a buck is why American cars tend to have trouble. I predict that now that Cadillacs are near impossible to be worked on by neighborhood garages, they will last longer and will begin to reflect that in resale value. That will also curtail their usage by the gang bangers, who are notorious for not maintaining their cars, but instead buying tires that are worth more then their homes.

Again, the Eldo was not built to slalom, it was built for the American Hi-way which has no hairpin turns to speak of. But by 1985 GM had other problems. Not the least of which were labor unions- who deliberately began sabotaging GM vehicles in the late 70's during contract talks. higher gas prices (gas in 1969 was $.19/gal not .69) which jumped to $2.00/gal in the early 1980's. They also had an image problem which was both real and imagined. The imagined was that anything AMerican made was bad and anything foreign made was good- pure bunk. The other that was real, was that the Caddy had become associated with low brow pimp/gangsters and no self respecting member of the middle/upper middle class wanted to be associated with that.
Would I have bought a Caddy if the gang bangers still drove them? Nope, I bought it because nowadays they drive MBs and such. GM would be well advised to stay away from the "bling bling" crap and concentrate on performance and luxury as well as safety. I don't see MB advertising to the "home boys" and neither should GM.

uh, you are aware that Al Capone and other such gangsters and mobsters of the 20s, 30s, 40s and on and on and on drove Cadillacs right? Al Capone swore by them and even owned an armored Caddi worth $27,000.00 (and that was at that time period and not by todays standards. and rappers and pimps and what not that talk about driving Cadillacs, you do know that they are singing about the cars they used to drive when they lived in the "hood." not to many drive them anymore, they all drives expensive MBs and BMWs. you should listen to the songs before putting them down:tisk: .

You have some very interesting views (and I don't just mean about cars)...

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the 1967 Eldorado. Are you trying to imply that because it had FWD that FWD is not cheap? FWD is less costly to manufacture and does contribute to better gas mileage, if not for the fact that it tends to be used in smaller and cheaper econocars. But class stigma aside, there are other reasons to bash FWD. Torque steer (acceleration) and understeer (handling) come to mind. FWD does have its benefits, but other than cost, AWD does almost everything better (except stop). RWD may not be a viable option for those in Buffalo or Minnesota (although there are still plenty who manage), but that's why I think RWD/AWD options, like how everyone else in the luxury game does it, is the only alternative.

I regularly go above 100 mph, but I'm also not sure why you keep mentioning that. If you're going that fast, you're going in a straight line for the most part, and then drivetrain isn't a factor.

uh, you are aware that Al Capone and other such gangsters and mobsters of the 20s, 30s, 40s and on and on and on drove Cadillacs right? Al Capone swore by them and even owned an armored Caddi worth $27,000.00 (and that was at that time period and not by todays standards. and rappers and pimps and what not that talk about driving Cadillacs, you do know that they are singing about the cars they used to drive when they lived in the "hood." not to many drive them anymore, they all drives expensive MBs and BMWs. you should listen to the songs before putting them down:tisk: .

Judging from his other remarks, I don't think those gangbangers are the type he reserves his disdain for...

and rappers and pimps and what not that talk about driving Cadillacs, you do know that they are singing about the cars they used to drive when they lived in the "hood." not to many drive them anymore, they all drives expensive MBs and BMWs. you should listen to the songs before putting them down:tisk: .

Pff. Ever heard of the Snoop Deville? Fat Joe and Terror Squad have 20 Escalades. I've seen Luda's green Deville... BMWs are still for yuppies, Cadillac is even more popular than Benz in the rap and hip hop scene.

FWD is less costly to manufacture and does contribute to better gas mileage, if not for the fact that it tends to be used in smaller and cheaper econocars.

You are correct about FWD being better for fuel economy, and that's the primary reason the X-car was introduced in 1980 for the 1979 gas crises. However based on everything I've read for the last 25 years on fwd, it is MORE expensive to manufacture, maintain and repair. The reason, there are more parts involved with fwd and most autobodies know that front end damage to a new Deville will be more costly to repair than a comparative RWD counterpart.

This is one of the reasons cab companies or fleet have typically used RWD vehicles like Grand Marquis or Crown Vics namely, for ease of maintanance and repair.

http://hostingprod.com/@aa1car.com/library/cvjoint1.htm

You are correct about FWD being better for fuel economy, and that's the primary reason the X-car was introduced in 1980 for the 1979 gas crises. However based on everything I've read for the last 25 years on fwd, it is MORE expensive to manufacture, maintain and repair. The reason, there are more parts involved with fwd and most autobodies know that front end damage to a new Deville will be more costly to repair than a comparative RWD counterpart.

This is one of the reasons cab companies or fleet have typically used RWD vehicles like Grand Marquis or Crown Vics namely, for ease of maintanance and repair.

http://hostingprod.com/@aa1car.com/library/cvjoint1.htm

Interesting, I've always read the opposite. Oh well, no matter...

Pff. Ever heard of the Snoop Deville? Fat Joe and Terror Squad have 20 Escalades. I've seen Luda's green Deville... BMWs are still for yuppies, Cadillac is even more popular than Benz in the rap and hip hop scene.

could have worded that one better, ment when they drove hoopties. Snoop is an exception hes a lowrider. and the others, i wasnt talking driving the new ones, just the old ones.

I dont like the three letter names. When people look at your car, I want them to go "hey look, a Deville." When I see an E500 or something (cant even remember the name lol there you go) I would have to pause for a few seconds and think. "hey look, uhhhhhh an E uhhhhh 543 or something" lol. Its like they're naming parts of a computer. SC430, ES500, 328ci. If the new deville was named Deville, I dont think it would conjure up memories of 70s and 80s floating couches as long as it looks sharp, but still american.

what song says DTS? on the new Young Buck cd track no. 5 he says "gold grilles, Coupe DEVILLES sittin on 22s...." i know hes talking about the older Devilles but i havent heard any rapper refer to their car as DTS. and most rappers talk about Escalades. Youngbloodz talk about Devilles and Fleetwoods.

I know this post is a little old but there is a song thats adequately called "Bump this in yo Cadillac" {REMIX} Where he exclusivesly names the DTS and DHS. I wish I could attach a soundclip because I have the song and if anyone wants to hear it let me know.

DUB

I know this post is a little old but there is a song thats adequately called "Bump this in yo Cadillac" {REMIX} Where he exclusivesly names the DTS and DHS. I wish I could attach a soundclip because I have the song and if anyone wants to hear it let me know.

DUB

who sings it?

who sings it?


Mike Jones Ft. Twista, Froze, and Bun-B

Dub

Mike Jones Ft. Twista, Froze, and Bun-B

Dub

oh, dont really care for them. ill hit them up when i go to the cd shop next time and listen to the sample.

oh, dont really care for them. ill hit them up when i go to the cd shop next time and listen to the sample.

Well they're relatively new. Mike Jones, Paul Wall (who has the #1 album in the country right now), and Slim Thug (all from the Swishahouse label) pretty much just put Houston on the map this year, and especially put the "Chopped & Screwed" genre of rap into the mainstream too. You should also check out:

"Sittin Sidewayz" - Paul Wall
"Still Tippin'" - Mike Jones
"Back Then" - Mike Jones

And see if you can find the Still Tippin music video. It has some SWEET Eldos in it, and I think the Paul Wall video does too... They adore 'Lacs...:D

ive heard that mike jones guy, didnt really care for him. never heard of paul wall or the other one you mentioned. im still bumpin Doc Dre's Chronic, NWA, Tupac, Snoops old stuff, Eazy, old Ice Cube, Westside Connection, etc. really the only new stuff i listen to is Game and alot of the southern rap like Three Six Mafia, Dirty, Youngbloodz and stuff like that.

I know this post is a little old but there is a song thats adequately called "Bump this in yo Cadillac" {REMIX} Where he exclusivesly names the DTS and DHS. I wish I could attach a soundclip because I have the song and if anyone wants to hear it let me know.

DUB

"i got a DTS, DHS, and a couple of ESV,
i got 20 inches crawling on all cars and SUVS"

Read what I wrote, the world's first luxury car to have FWD was the 1967 Eldorado. At $6,500.00 it was not cheap, not when a Ford Mustang was 1500.00. It was first class luxury and I guarantee you that no one was thinking about "economy" in 1967,
........

That will also curtail their usage by the gang bangers, who are notorious for not maintaining their cars, but instead buying tires that are worth more then their homes.

when you buy a car on payments, the company still gets their money in full, they could care less wether you finance or not.

i bet you're the kind of person whos sees me in my caddy and gives a "whats that guy doing in a cadillac" look. you would probably assume im a drug dealer

which brings me to my next point, the "gangbangers" etc that can afford a caddy, are obviously doin somethin right (wether it be illegal or immoral, its right for their pockets) because they can afford to own a cadillac, for most money is no object and they dont think twice about takin it into a detail shop, or in for factory maintenance no matter wat the cost.

i find it unnecessary to constantly mention your 200 dollar pants hand made crap, and the fact that you and your grandmother can write a check and buy a new car, wow so you have money, and lots of it, too much if you ask me, the only way i would buy 200 dollar pants is if they had lips built in to the inside front

so a guy who grows up poor has to be poor his whole life now, what happened to the american dream of rags to riches.

i guess the hoity toity never change

I owned a 1971 Sedan de Ville. That was a car befitting of the name. RWD, floating ride, massive amonts of chrome, overassisted steering and full bench seats that you can get lost in are what makes a Cadillac.

Now I have a 1995 Fleetwood Brougham. I am glad that they ended this car in '96 on a high note. It was certainly the last, best expression of what a Cadillac should be. By the way, I am 24 years old and don't like to be pummeled by a car when driving over NY potholes. And if you see a Massive luxury car passing your "sporty import" and blasting Frank Sinatra, that might be me.

My father has a BMW M3 and the only reason they have a good reputation is the warranty. His car had a driveshaft vibration at high speeds that it took months of fighting for the dealer to admit. It also has gone through 2 tire presure monitors, and the passenger door won't open from the outside. BMW does their quality control testing after the car is sold.

I looked at the new STS (Seville) recently. I can tolerate the stark styling and love RWD, but did they have to give us upholstered cinderblocks for seats? Why do they think that sporty has to mean uncomfortable?

I apologize for offending anyone, but the Deville was gone long before the name ended. It would take a miracle for Cadillac to offer a real luxury car again.

They midaswell rename the car. Id rather not see a car like that with the Deville namesake attached to it. If you love it, let it go

They midaswell rename the car. Id rather not see a car like that with the Deville namesake attached to it. If you love it, let it go


GM needs to take your advice for the naming of that THING they're calling an "IMPALA" these days.