Thanks everybody for all the help. Installed 9C1 sway bars and new inner/outer tie rods ends and idler arm. And had it aligned up.

Steering is straight as an arrow and has obviously less play but it's still a little light on it's feet for me. Would a new damper or heavy duty damper tighten the steering up or make the steering wheel feel less easy to turn?

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/tenmark262/DSCN7134.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/tenmark262/DSCN7137.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/tenmark262/DSCN7135.jpg

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Check out that 9C1 rear sway bar - sweet!!

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/tenmark262/DSCN7139.jpg

That rear swaybar is mounted wrong. It is hanging WAY too low.

For a better feel for the steering, consider the SS/9C1 steering box. It is 12 to 1 ratio, and offers much better response. It is a big adjustment to get out of one of my other cars with the slow ratio box and into my SS. The difference is huge. Not sure how compatible it would be with a D body variable boost system, but I am sure a little research would turn up the answer.

Come on, you've got to be kidding with that rear sway bar. That's the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.

Is it me ... as I don't see the rear end or ANY sway bar.

No pics, what happened?

The 9C1 cars I think did have the variable assist too, it doesn't matter what box you have, it works with them all...

If the vari assist connector is disconnected, it WILL go full assist all the time, which is risky in warm weather to burn up the fluid.

I dumped the pics after taking some shit from delzy. I'll figure the ****ing stuff out on my own.

So what was wrong with the rear sway bar?

It was on upside down, or perhaps about 4 or 5 inches too low.

Tenmark, don't go away angry. It's a good bunch of guys around here that can help. Post that pic again, be a man, laugh with your buddies, and let's get the bar on right...:highfive:

Come on Tenmark, don't take it so personal. I was just thinking what would happen if I drove through some of the frozen snow ruts around here lately. It's NBD, just flip it around.

I'm not angry or taking this deeply personal - I'm just not going to host the pictures if they're distracting from the main idea.

I will say the bar's installed correctly. Removed from a 95 9C1 and installed in my 95 FWB the same way I took it out and as shown in the 95 GM Fleetwood Service Manual - must have been the parallax of the shot causing some confusion and laughable comments.

What I was looking for here, which has completely been overshadowed, is an answer to my original question.

I can tell you for a fact that the rear stabilizer is not installed correctly. Aren't there some bushings that are supposed to hold it to the frame? The low spot on the car should be the differential and that picture showed the stabilizer at least a few inches below it. Repost the picture and let someone like N0DIH help get it on right. I know he's commented on plenty of 9C1 mods on his FWB if I'm not confusing him with someone else.

Look, it's a lot more important to get it on there right than whether your feelings are a little hurt. I think you'll find the expertise on this board will be very helpful and the aggression factor is quite low on this board compared to most.

repost

What I was looking for here, which has completely been overshadowed, is an answer to my original question.

No. For more help on what will help with the feel, see my first post.

First things first. I was wrong. The sway bar was on upside down flipped around. Flipped it back around right today. Thanks.

With that said, "Come on, you've got to be kidding with that rear sway bar. That's the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.", is plainly more insult than helpful comment. And if I'm wrong about that, then, well... pardon me all over the place.

Make no mistake, it's going to take a lot more than that to get under my skin - like the rest of us I'm sure, I get ribbed and poked and goaded all day long, day in and day out. It's just as a matter of habit that I pulled the images. No big deal.

I'm still in the dark here. Would a new damper or heavy-duty damper tighten my steering up? Does a damper really only soften road vibrations or does it stiffen up the steering suspension. And would a heavy-duty damper really stiffen it up?

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/tenmark262/DSCN7134.jpg

"Come on, you've got to be kidding with that rear sway bar. That's the funniest thing I've seen in a long time." Believe it or not, car actually handled better with it that way. Hate to be anything that gets clipped by this set up - squirrel, neighbors dog/cat, etc...

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/tenmark262/DSCN7139.jpg

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He said stiffen it up ... giggedy!!

In reality, it would work no matter what....

As for damper, Caprices didn't get it, I think only Roadies and Fleetwoods did.

These cars are famous for wander. Idler arms, drag links, tie rods, rag joint. My drag link was so shot I could see the play. My tie rods weren't, but I replaced them and it still tightened up quite a bit.

Alignment will also cause it to be poorer handling than it should be.

I would shoot for 4.5 degrees positive caster, 0.5 degrees negative camber, 0 toe. If you can run more caster, do so. Adjust for road crown. Don't let the shop put stock specs on, they suck. Keep the cross camber/cross caster tight. Cut the tolerance for the spec from GM in half, GM is pretty sloppy...

There you go, doesn't that feel better? Good work on the install second time around.

Do you have the printout that came with your alignment? NODIH is right, just because it "is aligned", doesn't mean that it is good for handling. Post up the numbers and let us have a look.

Personally, I don't think changing the damper will do anything. First up would be confirming the alignment numbers, then swapping to the 12-1 ratio SS/9C1 box. THAT will change the feel in a hurry!:thumbsup:

Got the alignment done close to NODIHs specs and it feels a whole lot better. Boys at Firestone tell me I need the center link and damper done too, so that will get done Friday. Truth be told, the alignment makes a HUGE difference.

When you say box, you mean the box mechanicals at the end of the steering shaft attached to the Pittman? 9C1 I've been pulling parts off of has one but it's been exposed, having lines that's been removed and all. Good idea to take that one?

M.

Yes, that is the one. A couple of lines go into it, the steering shaft goes in, and the pitman is on the bottom. If you can grab that 9C1 box, do it. It is bolted to the frame with three bolts, I believe. Of course, a high-mile cop car box may have more wear than yours...

My drag link make a HUGE diff. I did mine by myself in the driveway, not too hard. If you did the rear bar alone, drag link is fairly easy.

You aren't changing the tie rod length, so the alignment will be close. As I found the previous owner aligned it with a bad drag link and when I did the drag link the toe was WAAAY off. I did my own alignment on it. Easy there, just ensure the imaginary line that goes through the lower control arm bolts goes through the inner tie rod joint when the wheel is centered. And both tie rods are equal length. And then toe is at 0. I use 2 7 foot bars (I beam aluminum rack mount pieces) and measure the front and back difference and then tweak it. You will be as close as any shop.... If not closer....

Done. Did the center link and damper. And had it realigned. So thats inner/out tie rods, idler arm, front/rear 9C1 sway bars, center link, damper, and special alignment specs as given above.

Manager gave me some static about doing it out of factory specs but after a few words he got me close - ended up with -.1 and -.2 Camber, 4.5 and 4.4 Caster, and .07 and .06 Toe.

Hats off because the car steers great - straight as an arrow with negligible wander. And doesn't "feel" light on it's feet - nice solid hardy wheel feel. Thanks. No need for the 9C1 box, this is AOK!!

Cool, sounds good!

If they EVER give you flack about the specs, tell them to do it to stock but the moment there is ANY tire wear, they will BUY you new tires. Else, do it my way. They won't sign up to it, they will tell you that those specs will wear out the tires, but a GOOD alignment guy will NEVER tell you that, they KNOW it is how it SHOULD be aligned. They never guarantee jack....

Is that toe in or out? Toe in is generally preferred, but in the case of good handling, toe out is better. BUT, the expense can be wear, but the ackerman angle is improved with some toe out. That is why I keep it to 0. Yours is VERY close to zero, so don't worry about a thing. They were a little sloppy on the camber, but as long as it isn't pulling, you are ok.

Best advise to anyone with these old big cars (F-Bodies, A/G Bodies, B/D Bodies), go to Autozone or the like, get 2 or 3 packages of alignment shims. Down to 1/64". I did, and the guy was having trouble because they don't have many shims anymore so they tend to get sloppy with the alignment. If you have the shims on hand (I was in the shop with the guy sorting and getting what he wanted, he was pretty cool with it, glad I was there to answer questions....) and was able to get it dialed in pretty good.

Now, run it with around 35 psi (stock towing pressure) all the way around, or around 38 front and 34 rear and you will enjoy it more. BUT, some times if roads are rough, the higher pressure in front is a tad harsh, but the lower pressure is very prone to tire and rim damage due to pot holes. It is REALLY bad up here now. Sections of roads are down to 10 mph to handle how rough it is. People are losing tires left and right, violently, pairs at a time, rims bent too. KEEP the pressure up!

Higher tire pressure will help with gas mileage too!!


Cool, sounds good!

If they EVER give you flack about the specs, tell them to do it to stock but the moment there is ANY tire wear, they will BUY you new tires. Else, do it my way. They won't sign up to it, they will tell you that those specs will wear out the tires, but a GOOD alignment guy will NEVER tell you that, they KNOW it is how it SHOULD be aligned. They never guarantee jack....

Is that toe in or out? Toe in is generally preferred, but in the case of good handling, toe out is better. BUT, the expense can be wear, but the ackerman angle is improved with some toe out. That is why I keep it to 0. Yours is VERY close to zero, so don't worry about a thing. They were a little sloppy on the camber, but as long as it isn't pulling, you are ok.

Best advise to anyone with these old big cars (F-Bodies, A/G Bodies, B/D Bodies), go to Autozone or the like, get 2 or 3 packages of alignment shims. Down to 1/64". I did, and the guy was having trouble because they don't have many shims anymore so they tend to get sloppy with the alignment. If you have the shims on hand (I was in the shop with the guy sorting and getting what he wanted, he was pretty cool with it, glad I was there to answer questions....) and was able to get it dialed in pretty good.

Now, run it with around 35 psi (stock towing pressure) all the way around, or around 38 front and 34 rear and you will enjoy it more. BUT, some times if roads are rough, the higher pressure in front is a tad harsh, but the lower pressure is very prone to tire and rim damage due to pot holes. It is REALLY bad up here now. Sections of roads are down to 10 mph to handle how rough it is. People are losing tires left and right, violently, pairs at a time, rims bent too. KEEP the pressure up!

Yup, I have to check mine, I had my snow tires put on and wasn't able to check the pressure due to weather (crap it is cold and I can't find a good place with a worthy compressor here that doesn't take quarters...ooh that ticks me off....) I usually stop at truckstops, but there aren't any on my normal route. But they seem decent, once you get down to 30 psi you can feel how floaty they are.

SCCA rules where I used to autocross never allowed anyone on the track below 32 psi, because the risk of taking the tire off the rim was too high. So my rule is never below 32....