: No start (cranks OK)



Harry Yarnell
02-08-08, 01:35 PM
'96 Seville.
Cranks just fine when cold, but won't fire. Hit it with some ether, and it comes to life. Instantly. After starting and shutdown (20 seconds or so), it'll fire right up. Fuel pressure at the rail is 40#. No codes that are relative.
I'm at a loss as to where to go next.

JC316
02-08-08, 09:07 PM
Are your injectors getting power? If you have pressure, then I would think the only option is the injectors not opening.

Harry Yarnell
02-08-08, 10:07 PM
Have not checked yet; good point.
however this wouldn't explain why it fires and runs as if nothing ever happened, when I shoot some ether in the throttle body.

Are the injectors turned on for a longer duty cycle at cold startup?

JC316
02-08-08, 10:42 PM
I am not sure but it's the only thing that I can think of that would cause this type of problem. Maybe the relay that triggers the injectors?

Ranger
02-10-08, 09:44 PM
Check the fuel pump relay.

What is the fuel pressure during cranking when it will not start? When did you get 40# pressure? At idle?

Submariner409
02-10-08, 11:05 PM
FPR, some sort of fuel pump relay or pressure switch.

Is there an oil pressure/fuel pump switch on this year?

Something's not commanding the FP run signal.

Harry Yarnell
02-11-08, 04:57 PM
Fuel pressure is 40# at key on; drops about 5# while cranking.
At idle, pressure is also 40#, with slight (1#) pulsing as the injectors are activated.
Have to use ether to get it started.

Since I know NOTHING about the history of the car (bought at auction), the thought of stale gas came to mind, but it smells fine.

eldorado1
02-11-08, 07:08 PM
Okay, so let me get this straight... It will crank all day and won't start. If you spray it with starting fluid, it will start, and run indefinitely. If you shut it off after this, it will start right back up with no problems?

Check the fuel injector wiring harness for any cracks or frays. Next, check cranking voltage and running voltage at the battery. Report back. Also post your codes. You might not think your EGR code is related to your no start condition, but it could be.

Ranger
02-11-08, 09:41 PM
Fuel pressure is 40# at key on; drops about 5# while cranking.
There is your problem Harry. No way in hell will it ever start with 5 psi fuel pressure. Now the only question is why is it so low only while cranking.

Harry Yarnell
02-12-08, 12:27 PM
No, no; it doesn't drop TO 5#, drops BY 5#, or 35# at the rail during idle.

As to Eldorado1's question, battery voltage is 12.4, engine OFF. I've had other Northstars start with just enough juice to barely crank the engine, so don't think thats an issue.
Injector harness and connector look just fine.

Too cold to check anything else today. Now starting to think stale gas ('cause I'm grabbing at straws).

Ranger
02-12-08, 12:42 PM
Oh, OK. I think the operating pressure is 45 - 50 psi. Not sure if 35 psi is too low to start the car or not though, but it is something to consider. Personally, I would not put much stock in the stale gas theory.

eldorado1
02-12-08, 02:43 PM
Now starting to think stale gas ('cause I'm grabbing at straws).

You might be right. I would throw in a couple bottles of ISO-HEET along with a gallon or two of gas and see if it doesn't help matters. You might have water in your tank that's preventing you from starting, but once the fuel pump starts sloshing everything together (after it starts) it runs fine.

Harry Yarnell
02-13-08, 11:39 AM
I'm putting this issue on back burner, as the car's outside, the bays are full, and it's freezing rain here. Too many other projects demanding my time, but, as Arnold says: "I'll be back!" Thanks guys...

Harry Yarnell
02-13-08, 04:31 PM
Well Ranger, you may be right. I've got a '96 Eldo in the shop, and while there, I measured fuel pressure (same engine). Key ON; 45#. Engine idle (and it fires right off); 40#. Pull the regulator hose, and it climbs to 50#.

I just HATE pulling gas tanks at my age...

Oh, I measured the resistance of the coolant sensor on the problem Seville, and it was right for the temp.
The coolant sensor tells the pcm to trim the fuel for cold/hot operation.

I'll keep you posted as things progress.

Ranger
02-13-08, 05:27 PM
I hear ya, Harry. I'm getting too old for that stuff too, but the more I think about this, the more I believe it is fuel pump related.

Harry Yarnell
03-20-08, 11:58 AM
As a follow-up; replaced the pump. Now have 50# at key-on, and it fires instantly...