My main bearing on my '87 FWB is shot at 128K. 3 different mechanics say so. Car has no rust, clean underside, and a lot invested in new parts over 4 years.

I took it to the guy I always go to for tough jobs. Thus far he has always been reliable and has never charged me unless something was done properly.

He wants to put a Jasper remanufacutued 307 in and claims the total cost of this adventure is going to be... $4500. He claims the car does not appear to need a new tranny.

He claims that Jaspers are the "only engines he would trust."

As far as I can tell, all Jaspers are are the most expensive remanufactured engines. They appear to cost about $1200 more than any other remanufactured 307.

I'm tempted to call Major BS on his part and never trust him on anything again. I had more in mind the $2500-3000, $3500 tops range for this replacement.

If you were me, what would you do?

1. Take down the at least 5 companies online that sell remanufactured 307s and present him with the prices, and insist that he use a cheaper engine from there or go get one from the junkyard.

2. Take the car elsewhere since he's trying to screw me and try to get a better price overall.

3. Take the car out to the pasture and shoot it...meaning either offer it for sale as parts on here, somewhere else, junkyard it, or try to sell it to a sucker.


Assume:
1. You COULD afford the $4500 if you had to but would probably get rid of the car rather than spend that much. At some point, rediculous trumps sentimental.
2. You definitely do not have the skills to put in the new engine yourself.


Thanks.

That does sound like a lot, especially for just a 307. You live in Connecticut, right? Here's an option...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/86-89-cadillac-fleetwood-oldsmobile-engine-307-motor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ007QQit emZ170191791246QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I've seen this engine on Ebay for a long time, and I'd hate to see it go to waste. They price has gone down steadily, and no one has bid on it at all. You have to pick it up yourself, but It's only in Jersey. You may be able to arrange something easily.

He says 44k on the engine, but we don't really know. For 250, it's not that big of a risk...

I have another option, let me look it up for you...

http://hiperformer.com/engines/cadillac-fleetwood-rebuilt_engines-old_307rlb.html

I don't know anyone specifically who's gotten an engine from them, but feedback seems to be very positive, and they're affordable. They also buy your engine back as a core to lighten the load.

Ultimately, It's up to you, but I'd probably look into that $250 unit in Jersey.

4500 for an engine and install. WOW. thats Straight STUPID. hes f**ckin you in the ass hard no lube no warning.

you can get a reman 307 for way cheaper. like 1200 and you got a damn good one. at least in vegas you can. id tell him if he likes jasper so much buy the car and fix it himself.

Way too much. More than the value of the car! (I know, sentimentality...)

Why not get the engine rebuilt? If it is a main, you could get away with new oversized mains and having the crank turned.

I would start talking to other mechs...

Might want to PM 1990CaddyBrougham... he might have a 307 for you up in MA...

You could
A: give it to me
Or
B: I have a 90 Brougham with 77k miles on it, parts car, for frame rot reasons, and a bad motor mount. Give me $200 (thats what the junkyard is going to give me for scrap) and take the car and use the motor. Complete nose is off the car for easy motor changing and pulling access. Starts and runs everytime, even though it has been sitting being picked apart for the last 2 years. If the 307 went in my 90 there is no question id use this motor. And look, your a state below me. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/towncar097/91%20Delegance/DeElegance3.jpg

My buddy Jay, your good!

See? I told you he would hook you up! Paypal him some $$, make arrangements to get your new car home! After the motor has been taken out, throw the bad one between the frame rails, then flip it for scrap. The motor won't cost you a dime!

Call your guy, and ask him a price and hours for a re/re on the motor if you supply everything. Before you agree, call a GM dealer and ask what "book time" is on the same job. You will quickly see if he is screwing you. Also, offer him cash, since the used motor won't have a warranty.

I knew he was full of it. I just wanted to hear it from you guys.

Hiperformance was the name I had heard tossed around too. It looks like you have to swap over the "engine accessories" from the old engine...I have had a bunch of leaks repaired(intake manifold, oil pan, etc) over time on the old engine...the rear main seal had a slow leak...so could a swap like that go through okay if I went with hiperformance?

1990Brougham. thanks, but I live in a highrise apartment building in the middle of a city and my FWB lives in an underground garage (I own one parking spot) so I'd have no place to put your parts car. And the engine job is something I can't do myself.

Unless it could be arranged to take your car to the/a mechanic's place, not my place. I don't have a trailer or towtruck or anything either. I'd have to send AAA Plus for your car hahaha.

See? I told you he would hook you up! Paypal him some $$, make arrangements to get your new car home! After the motor has been taken out, throw the bad one between the frame rails, then flip it for scrap. The motor won't cost you a dime!

Call your guy, and ask him a price and hours for a re/re on the motor if you supply everything. Before you agree, call a GM dealer and ask what "book time" is on the same job. You will quickly see if he is screwing you. Also, offer him cash, since the used motor won't have a warranty.

I believe I would go elsewhere then...because he has a policy of not accepting customer supplied parts under any circumstances. At first this was no problem, I wasn't going to go out and buy an oil pan, and I change bulbs and plugs and such myself, but now I see where this is really just a way for him to make you pay through the nose.

Or you could just take the parts car right to whomever isnt going to rape you on the work, have him pull the motor from my creampuff, and then do what jay said, dump your old motor back in and call the scrapyard to pick it up from your mechanic. Wont have to see your house. And also like Jay said, its almost be a free motor if you get the scrap money from the bone yard. Just pay to get it towed down. Maby even AAA Plus if you have it. Then the cost of the swap. Like i said, my car i took the nose off of, so to take the motor out and access everyting will be cake.

Why not get the engine rebuilt? If it is a main, you could get away with new oversized mains and having the crank turned.


I thought about getting it rebuilt...would that be much cheaper than a reman?

And it would it take a lot more time (The Arse-Rapist said the engine switch would take 3-5 days including shipping of the engine).?

Or you could just take the parts car right to whomever isnt going to rape you on the work, have him pull the motor from my creampuff, and then do what jay said, dump your old motor back in and call the scrapyard to pick it up from your mechanic. Wont have to see your house. And also like Jay said, its almost be a free motor if you get the scrap money from the bone yard. Just pay to get it towed down. Maby even AAA Plus if you have it. Then the cost of the swap. Like i said, my car i took the nose off of, so to take the motor out and access everyting will be cake.

I will get back to you on PM about this tomorrow (Thurs) pending a few other answers here and other mechanics I can get ahold of tomorrow morning. I understand you may end up selling it in the meantime, that's life.

I believe I would go elsewhere then...because he has a policy of not accepting customer supplied parts under any circumstances. At first this was no problem, I wasn't going to go out and buy an oil pan, and I change bulbs and plugs and such myself, but now I see where this is really just a way for him to make you pay through the nose.


He makes money on the parts. He gets them cheaper Vs. the geneal public. Geat a % discount. He can easily mark it up also.

Let me know. Car aint going anywhere soon. It will be scrapped soon, but not within the next month.

What really ticks me is that the bearing went at 128K. I thought these 307s were famous for lasting and lasting. I took good care of it, too. I thought I would at least make it to 200K without the need for some kind of rebuild.

What really ticks me is that the bearing went at 128K. I thought these 307s were famous for lasting and lasting. I took good care of it, too. I thought I would at least make it to 200K without the need for some kind of rebuild.


I have the same thought in my head. I have seen em go forever. My 90 is great. Havent had to put a thing in it mechanically.


Stuff can happen to any "great" motor. There is always a few in the bunch. Take for instance the previous motors in these cars, the ht4100.... Excellent motors, built to last! I had a buddy whos let go at 60k. Oh wait, what am i thinking, its a HT 4100... lol.

But yah, I have heard good things about em. Dogs, but well built dependable dogs.

If you were me, what would you do?

I would buy another car with a 307 or 350 Olds for like under $500 and swap motors myself. Since you cant physically do the swap why not ask your mechanic (or another) how much to swap another used 307/350 into it?.

See? I told you he would hook you up! Paypal him some $$, make arrangements to get your new car home! After the motor has been taken out, throw the bad one between the frame rails, then flip it for scrap. The motor won't cost you a dime!

Call your guy, and ask him a price and hours for a re/re on the motor if you supply everything. Before you agree, call a GM dealer and ask what "book time" is on the same job. You will quickly see if he is screwing you. Also, offer him cash, since the used motor won't have a warranty.


Dealer says book time is 19 hrs or $2,313.25...this is Thomas Cadillac in Hartford.

1990 Caddy, your PM box is full...but I think mine got in. I'm interested.

Dealer says book time is 19 hrs or $2,313.25...this is Thomas Cadillac in Hartford.


There you go. We're saving money already. Also, dealer labour is WAY more $$ than a local garage. Likely about 30/hour more. So there is more money saved. Also, any decent tech will beat book time, every time. Hell, I can beat book time when I try, and I am not a fast worker (or a mechanic! lol).

Keep asking questions, keep doing research. We'll get you back on the road, cheap!

There you go. We're saving money already. Also, dealer labour is WAY more $$ than a local garage. Likely about 30/hour more. So there is more money saved. Also, any decent tech will beat book time, every time. Hell, I can beat book time when I try, and I am not a fast worker (or a mechanic! lol).

Keep asking questions, keep doing research. We'll get you back on the road, cheap!
Where do you live?. I'd do it for less than half that.

I found somebody who will do the swap of 1990CaddyBrougham's engine for $1400. So if I can get my AAA to cover the towing, and allow for a little more to switch out some valve covers, oil pans, and maybe some tune up parts, I'm hoping to come in under $2,000.


Destroyer, prices in CT are generally outrageous. Gas here is between $3.01 and 3.15/gallon generally, but if you end up in the wrong town, such as a rich one (ie West Hartford) the price magically jumps to $3.25. A little rich town "luxury tax"

I think you'll be happy you kept your car.

my step-father had a reman 307 installed in his '87 Brougham for around $2,200 IIRC. It was from a very good reman company too.

The engine now only has 35k on it but the car is not road worthy anymore, so hes trying to find a new home for it.

[quote=ReagansRollsRoyce;1397125]I found somebody who will do the swap of 1990CaddyBrougham's engine for $1400. So if I can get my AAA to cover the towing, and allow for a little more to switch out some valve covers, oil pans, and maybe some tune up parts, I'm hoping to come in under $2,000.
quote]

:cool2::highfive:

If the tow doesent work i have a Plan "B" and a last resort Plan "C"
Again, you have to come up anyways, dont call them until your here. Dont call them now to see if they will do it. :shhh: They are probably going to tell you no. WHen your here. call, tell them you need a car towed from my grandmothers address, and your here and waiting, And NEED a FLATBED... Tow truck drivers going to show up and see its current condition. The tow truck driver can say no im not going to tow it and go back to his shop. He will still get some money from AAA for showing up... But taking a, say 80 mile trip both ways, will bank him more. He dont care, Hes gona get paid. He would be better off.
Belive me i have done it before. And if you dont use your AAA much, you should have even more leverage. :rolleyes:


I dont think it sould be anymroe to swap oil pans and valve cover gaskets. Did you make it known that the nose is just sitting on there, and 2 people can lift it off, and you will have all access to the motor. It will be NOTHING to take it out of my car. That should help alot. nothing to work around.


Im getting it out and ready tomorrow.

[quote=ReagansRollsRoyce;1397125]I found somebody who will do the swap of 1990CaddyBrougham's engine for $1400. So if I can get my AAA to cover the towing, and allow for a little more to switch out some valve covers, oil pans, and maybe some tune up parts, I'm hoping to come in under $2,000.
quote]

:cool2::highfive:

If the tow doesent work i have a Plan "B" and a last resort Plan "C"
Again, you have to come up anyways, dont call them until your here. Dont call them now to see if they will do it. :shhh: They are probably going to tell you no. WHen your here. call, tell them you need a car towed from my grandmothers address, and your here and waiting, And NEED a FLATBED... Tow truck drivers going to show up and see its current condition. The tow truck driver can say no im not going to tow it and go back to his shop. He will still get some money from AAA for showing up... But taking a, say 80 mile trip both ways, will bank him more. He dont care, Hes gona get paid. He would be better off.
Belive me i have done it before. And if you dont use your AAA much, you should have even more leverage. :rolleyes:


I dont think it sould be anymroe to swap oil pans and valve cover gaskets. Did you make it known that the nose is just sitting on there, and 2 people can lift it off, and you will have all access to the motor. It will be NOTHING to take it out of my car. That should help alot. nothing to work around.


Im getting it out and ready tomorrow.

Sent you a PM...would you be up for me getting it Sunday morning or are you a late-riser? :)

Whenever is fine for me. ill be around. Morning, afternoon. Whenever. Ill be working on my 81 for most of the weekend, so yah.

Give me a call tomorrow night (sat night) to confirm and what not. 978 930 1004

Anthony-

See yah tomorrow morning buddy!

:)

See yah tomorrow morning buddy!

:)


I'll be there...and hopefully my cruiser will be back on the road by Thursday.

Glad im not the only one up late.

Cars ready for its 3rd owner. Took all my little things out. I didnt take the seats. IDK what color your inteior is, but they are nice blue delegance leathers... Hopefully it doesnt rain/snow tomorrow.. there is a large opening where once a sunroof was.

Im out man... You should to, you got some miles in front of you. I thought about it just a little while ago... Maby 2 or 3 weeks ago i drove to NYC to pick up a 92 Brougham. If this happened at that time i could have brought the car to you. I drove down wiht a empty car trailer....

Funny how things work...

Talk to you tomorrow.

Dont be afraid to call me early. Ill be up. If you cant get my cell, bad reception in the house, call the home phone, 978 667 0297....

Anthony-

I love it when a plan comes together. Nice work gentlemen.

Anthony

PMing you directions, for the other issues give me a call. Thanks for your help today.

I got em. Cars loaded on the trailer. I was planning for tueday... with hopes i can get the seats out of the car tomorrow, thats as long as you OK it, Technically they are yours. Jay is comming down from Canada this summer to Maine on vacation. I was going to meet up with him... So i could store them for him... LMK...

To all.... Deal went threw and we worked AAA over to tow the shitty-est looking 90/81 caddy 109 miles for free.... but we were so close,,,, yet not close enough. It was obvious to the truck sriver that it wasnt registerd, let alone road worthy..... So im going to trailer it down to CT and back.

This is what it looked like... Note the larger astro roof....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/towncar097/91%20Delegance/DSC05715.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/towncar097/91%20Delegance/DSC05716.jpg

Damn... that ASStro roof is P I M P!

Give us the details on the removal. This is still on my to-do list. I have found two in local yards, under $150, complete.

Deatails on the above removal....

Sawzall...... :)

Too bad I came in too late on this topic. I have a complete 307 in my garage that I don't want. My neighbor left it here when he moved to California. The engine is very clean and looks like it has new pistons in it. I have a complete gasket kit for it still in the package as well. Accessories too!

Seats are out owen... Illl be truckin down tomorrow... Talk to you In the evening.

Seats are out owen... Illl be truckin down tomorrow... Talk to you In the evening.


There we go Jay...win-win situation for all. -Owen

Group hug time. :grouphug:

I told you 1990CaddyBrougham was your boy! The Caddy King of the Northeast!:green:

Group hug time. :grouphug:

I told you 1990CaddyBrougham was your boy! The Caddy King of the Northeast!:green:


Well the mechanics are finally done with replacing the engine. The FWB is waiting for me at the garage. Since I have come down with a terrible cold I'm not going to get it today, hoping to feel better tomorrow.

They said it was running strong...let's hope they prove trustworthy.


Naive question from a non-mechanic:

Is there anything I should expect to be different about the newly installed 307 from a '90 car as opposed my old '87 (besides that the '90 is hopefully not about to spin its main bearing!) ?

I think the 90 might have more hp. 180 vs 140...?

Well the mechanics are finally done with replacing the engine.

They said it was running strong...let's hope they prove trustworthy.





:highfive::cheers:

What became of the old 90? Scrap it, get (some of?) your money back?

I think the 90 might have more hp. 180 vs 140...?


From what i have read its the exact same.

90-degree, overhead valve, V-8, cast iron block and cast iron cylinder heads
Displacement: 307 cu. in - (5.0 liters)
Bore & Stroke: 3.8 in. x 3.39 in.
Compression ratio: 8.0: 1
Brake horsepower: 140 @ 3200 rpm
Torque: 346 lb.-ft. @ 2000 rpm
Five main bearings
Hydraulic valve lifters
Four-barrel carburetor

In other words, Performace Machine!!! :thumbsup:

I just paid 4200 to have a Jasper engine installed in my 2002 boneville ssei. If you like the car and you plan on keeping it. For me, it was worth it. I keep my cars forever.


My main bearing on my '87 FWB is shot at 128K. 3 different mechanics say so. Car has no rust, clean underside, and a lot invested in new parts over 4 years.

I took it to the guy I always go to for tough jobs. Thus far he has always been reliable and has never charged me unless something was done properly.

He wants to put a Jasper remanufacutued 307 in and claims the total cost of this adventure is going to be... $4500. He claims the car does not appear to need a new tranny.

He claims that Jaspers are the "only engines he would trust."

As far as I can tell, all Jaspers are are the most expensive remanufactured engines. They appear to cost about $1200 more than any other remanufactured 307.

I'm tempted to call Major BS on his part and never trust him on anything again. I had more in mind the $2500-3000, $3500 tops range for this replacement.

If you were me, what would you do?

1. Take down the at least 5 companies online that sell remanufactured 307s and present him with the prices, and insist that he use a cheaper engine from there or go get one from the junkyard.

2. Take the car elsewhere since he's trying to screw me and try to get a better price overall.

3. Take the car out to the pasture and shoot it...meaning either offer it for sale as parts on here, somewhere else, junkyard it, or try to sell it to a sucker.


Assume:
1. You COULD afford the $4500 if you had to but would probably get rid of the car rather than spend that much. At some point, rediculous trumps sentimental.
2. You definitely do not have the skills to put in the new engine yourself.


Thanks.

In addition, the Jaspar engine has a 3 year 100,000 warranty.

^^^^ The whole thread reads that he bought a good running used motor from a fellow forum member (me).

I think the 90 might have more hp. 180 vs 140...?

I think the 307 was the same in '87 as was in '90. I think what you're thinking of is the early 80's 307s. Up 1983 (I think), the 307 had larger ports and a different cam. You can tell by the vin number; one has a "Y" (the older one.. I think) and the other has another letter (I think an "N".. not sure, tho)

Ask N0DIH, as he told me that about my '83 Olds 88 wagon which has a more power than the 307 Bro's.

Greg

Well, the FWB is back.

The good news:

Damn does it ever run great. I'm starting to wonder if there wasn't something wrong with my old engine for a lot longer than I thought. This is a lot quieter, a lot smoother, and (unbelievably) seems more powerful...it's not blowing me away of course at 140 HP but it seems to have more pickup. I think that previous engine was going for a long time. I saw the warning signs, the oil pressure light on 30W oil and having to switch to 20W50 to run the a/c in the summer, but I didn't act.

Other good news: They combined the best parts of the '90 engine with the many new parts from my '87 engine to make the best combination of the two engines. So I have the carb from my '87, the alternator from the '90, etc etc. Maybe in the long run these parts that I had just put on the '87 over the last 2 years will save me some money (ie I wont have to replace em again for a while on the '90 b/c they're still pretty new).

The bad news:

They seriously jacked up the price. Claimed 15 extra hours tacked onto their original estimate to do all the part switching--the moving of '87 engine parts to the '90 engine if they were better than what was on the '90. So they charged me $3100.
I know I got screwed, probably. Nevertheless, I think they did do a good job on it. The charges were almost all labor to swap the parts from engine to engine. Only a few new things were needed, a new base plate for the carb, a new water pump gasket, a new coolant temp sensor, new manifold gasket, and a new heater valve.
Still, it's better than the $4500 they wanted to charge me for that rebuilt Jasper engine, and that was not even counting the fact that they'd want to put a new tranny on too with that new engine, running it up another grand I'm sure. So I still probably saved a couple thou.

They want to check (for free) the settings on it after I drive it for 200 miles to make sure the carb, timing, etc are all where they should be.



Moral: Unless you can fix a car yourself, you're always going to pay a lot, unless you've got a buddy who can do it for you. Although I made as much of an effort to hold costs down But hey, some people can fix cars, other people can practice law. It all breaks even eventually. At least I know how to change light bulbs and spark plugs. Most of my friends wouldn't know where to find their air filters.

At the end of all this I owe a big thanks to Anthony (1990CaddyBrougham) for coming thru so quickly with his parts car and the good 307 and everybody here for at least saving me $1500 of sucker money to the local garage. Hopefully at 77,500 the new engine will hold up for a while...at least long enough so that by the time there's more trouble with it I'll be out of law school, billing at a higher hourly rate than mechanics :devil:, and hopefully have a backup car so I don't end up riding the bus everywhere for 3 weeks like I did this time!

I'll put some pics of this up at some point.

:thumbsup: :highfive: :bouncy: :worship:


But, i hope they lubed up first.... DAMN

It should have taken them longer to get the 90 in (full of snow, unbolted steering wheel, bent front rim, and tranny pooring fluid) then to take the motor out of it. The whole front clip was held on by the 2 or 3 bolts you saw me put in. It would have been pie to take out. Damnit..... I should have pulled it myself and saved you some cake.... First Triple A, now the mechanic...

15 EXTRA hours seems steep, wtf did they originaly quote for time, 2?

Well..... i can breath a sign of relief. Its in, its running, and you are satisfied(with the motor)
So did you cash in on the scrap reamains???? Please dont tell me the garage "got rid of it for free" I know there is a cat, converter uner that car worth some money for scrap alone... You should have been able to get your money back on the car... Its alot of steel...


Well, Owen, your Cadillac Pimpin Again... Glad to hear it! BTW your PM box is full... Get well, then you can send that. Prioritys first my friend...

:cool2:

See? Told you 1990CaddyBrougham would hook you up!

Glad it all worked out. Soon, the extra $$ will be a faded memory, and you will still have a car that runs great.:thumbsup:

:thumbsup: :highfive: :bouncy: :worship:


But, i hope they lubed up first.... DAMN

It should have taken them longer to get the 90 in (full of snow, unbolted steering wheel, bent front rim, and tranny pooring fluid) then to take the motor out of it. The whole front clip was held on by the 2 or 3 bolts you saw me put in. It would have been pie to take out. Damnit..... I should have pulled it myself and saved you some cake.... First Triple A, now the mechanic...

15 EXTRA hours seems steep, wtf did they originaly quote for time, 2?

Well..... i can breath a sign of relief. Its in, its running, and you are satisfied(with the motor)
So did you cash in on the scrap reamains???? Please dont tell me the garage "got rid of it for free" I know there is a cat, converter uner that car worth some money for scrap alone... You should have been able to get your money back on the car... Its alot of steel...


Well, Owen, your Cadillac Pimpin Again... Glad to hear it! BTW your PM box is full... Get well, then you can send that. Prioritys first my friend...

:cool2:


Re Junker: No they are not getting rid of it "for free" unless they want a better business bureau investigation. Planning to haul it from their place tomorrow. Will probably cost me $50 but then at least I can get $100-150 out of it, I hope.

Re hours: Original hrs 18, new 32. They claimed that the setup is somewhat different in terms of bolts and brackets on the '90 than the '87 and this also required additional rearrangement. Could be total bs but I am not in a position to verify that stuff. If I had already passed the bar exam I'd do something ballsy like say I had to go get my checkbook and then just refuse to pay them. Be like "okay, take it to small claims. it will cost you more to higher a lawyer than eat it" Unfortunately for character and fitness purposes the Bar Examining Committee frown on law students who don't pay bills so I can't risk pulling games like that right now.

I know what my remedies are though: I could complain to better business, DMV, etc but that is pretty much all unless I wanted to sue them or something.

I knew I was gonna get arse-raped regardless...it's better than it could've been. Won't use those dirtballs again and am seriously considering reporting them, because of the great disparity between the estimate and the price. They didn't warn or ask me if I would consent to the higher price either.

But you have to understand I am only in a position to question so much and not make a fool of myself. I mean if I hire somebody to fix an oil leak and its still leaking when I get home, damn right, I'll put a hold on the check. But I'm in no kind of expertise to question engine installement procedures. If I opened the Shop Manual it'd take me a good 6 months to install an engine, and it'd probably come out wrong.

I don't even have local buddies who'd do this job slowly for me, over the course of a couple months, in their garage or something...I know some of you guys have friends like that. All of my friends are yuppies, lol. Some of em can't even change a tire! So I have to go get screwed by garages, at least until I have a second car to fall back on and can really look around for someone willing to help out for a fair price.

Glad to see that everyone is satisfied with the end result.

There's only about one out of every hundred shops out there that are actually honest good workers. Far too many are ready to take advantage of a clueless customer, or they're don't know what they're doing and charge you for the wrong work and/or labor to fix their own mistakes. This has happened to many one too many times, so I told myself I'd just learn and do it myself. And that has paid off for me... for now, anyways. But if I ever do have to get something done at a shop, I look over the shop manual so that even if I'm not doing the work or am able, I still know what to expect from a mechanic. Three-quarters of the talkin' they do it either b.s. or or to scare you, but if you can speak "car" then mechanics are far less likely to "rape" you. They may actually have a little respect for you. That's at least from what I've found, and I'm a university business student!

For example, my grandmother (in her upper 80s) always goes to her shop and routinely spends upwards of $500 to $800 per year to keep her car in "top notch." They tried to charge her for $500 worth of rack and pinion work, when the real problem was they'ed over-tightened the struts that they'd put on for $800 a couple months before. Of course, they wanted her money, but I told them straight up that she wouldn't be payin' ...and they actually fixed it (the real problem). Then they always sell her a tranny flush, a coolant flush, an alignment, and a bunch of other non-annually-needed stuff every year as a "recommendation" knowing that she'll pay out thinking it's absolute necessity, which is what they want her to think. But she only drives two blocks a week! Ulghhh! She also gets new "premium wiper blades" twice a year.... but she does not drive in the rain.... again, another "necessity." Every time, they say "just write the check our for xxx.xx," knowing she'll fill in any amount; for all I know they charge her $100 for an oil change!

But enough about my experiences. Sorry to hear it costed so much, but I'm glad you have such a fine running car!
Greg

There's only about one out of every hundred shops out there that are actually honest good workers. Far too many are ready to take advantage of a clueless customer, or they're don't know what they're doing and charge you for the wrong work and/or labor to fix their own mistakes. This has happened to many one too many times, so I told myself I'd just learn and do it myself. And that has paid off for me... for now, anyways. But if I ever do have to get something done at a shop, I look over the shop manual so that even if I'm not doing the work or am able, I still know what to expect from a mechanic. Three-quarters of the talkin' they do it either b.s. or or to scare you, but if you can speak "car" then mechanics are far less likely to "rape" you. They may actually have a little respect for you. That's at least from what I've found, and I'm a university business student!

For example, my grandmother (in her upper 80s) always goes to her shop and routinely spends upwards of $500 to $800 per year to keep her car in "top notch." They tried to charge her for $500 worth of rack and pinion work, when the real problem was they'ed over-tightened the struts that they'd put on for $800 a couple months before. Of course, they wanted her money, but I told them straight up that she wouldn't be payin' ...and they actually fixed it (the real problem). Then they always sell her a tranny flush, a coolant flush, an alignment, and a bunch of other non-annually-needed stuff every year as a "recommendation" knowing that she'll pay out thinking it's absolute necessity, which is what they want her to think. But she only drives two blocks a week! Ulghhh! She also gets new "premium wiper blades" twice a year.... but she does not drive in the rain.... again, another "necessity." Every time, they say "just write the check our for xxx.xx," knowing she'll fill in any amount; for all I know they charge her $100 for an oil change!

But enough about my experiences. Sorry to hear it costed so much, but I'm glad you have such a fine running car!
Greg

That's interesting to hear of your experiences. It's not the little stuff they get me on, I'd never fall for premium wiper blades (and I was smart enough to go elsewhere when someone tried to sell me a new air compressor for my shocks, or when another person tried to sell me a new carburetor 4 years ago when mine just needed to be rebuilt), it's the big stuff where I really have no choice but to believe them, like engine installations!

I have the 1987 Cadillac Brougham service manual and I do glance through it, but honestly without a lift and all those tools, I don't see how there's a ton I can do besides diagnose things. Also, I think it's great that you were able to learn how to do work, but I don't know when I'd find the time. Between law school, clerking at the office, local clubs and organizations, girls, and sleep, there's not a lot of time left in the day, to, say, learn how to install a new exhaust system.

Maybe it would've been easier if this were a REALLY old Cadillac, like something from the 50s or 60s, with no computer or emissions stuff. I think I could've learned a lot more on my own in that era.

Maybe it would've been easier if this were a REALLY old Cadillac, like something from the 50s or 60s, with no computer or emissions stuff. I think I could've learned a lot more on my own in that era.

I agree. I think car makers these days are making them unnecessarily complex in an effort to force owners to get mechanics/dealers to do the work. For example, needing a propriety screw driver to remove an oil filter, or this whole "sealed" transmission mumbo jumbo.

And I didn't mean to say you'd fall for premium wiper blades, but I meant to show that some shops will do anything to make a penny even if it bankrupts you.

Cheers!
Greg

I agree. I think car makers these days are making them unnecessarily complex in an effort to force owners to get mechanics/dealers to do the work. For example, needing a propriety screw driver to remove an oil filter, or this whole "sealed" transmission mumbo jumbo.

And I didn't mean to say you'd fall for premium wiper blades, but I meant to show that some shops will do anything to make a penny even if it bankrupts you.

Cheers!
Greg

Oh no offense was taken! I'm pretty sure you're right on with the complex issue, in 1987 and even worse in 2008. Now you can't even get your keys copied for cars because they have those microchips!

I would LOVE to trade mechanic work for legal service. I'll bet you'll find a good mechanic someday that will trade labor with you. When I change an engine alone by myself, I figure one day to take it out, one day to clean and swap parts, and one day to put it all together. That's 24 hours; I wonder what they did on the fourth day? Prabably cruising for chicks in the Caddy haha. Oh well, you can enjoy it now. Peace.

I love the epic threads that seem to appear on this forum. Everything from "Project Car" threads to ones like this, there is a lot of good material for the reading here. :cool:

Sometimes I laugh and sometimes I cry... but I always relate to to what's being discussed, thanks to my experiences with my own Cadillac. And the best part? The good humored/natured responses of the board members.

Some people might think that Cadillac owners are stuck-up snobs, but that doesn't seem the case... at least not on this board. Everyone here seems to have a real love of these stylish old cars, and we all seem to understand the connection our fellow Cadillac owners have with their rides. And because of that, we all have a genuine desire to help each other out.

Glad to hear you've got a good running car, and to know someone thought enough of an old Brougham not to junk it when the going got tough. Not too many people would make that choice nowadays. Even happier to know that a fellow board member assisted so willingly.

Right on everybody.