: Headers melting spark wires/breaking plugs??



CBVLS6
01-29-08, 03:44 PM
Alright so I am having problems with my Kooks melting my spark plug wires and breaking the ceramic on the stock Delco plugs that I am running. The car was running like trash and I put it up on a lift an looked up into the engine bay and it looked like Van de Graff generator the way the electric was arcing around in the engine bay.... great, I think to myself:banghead:

So after diagnositics I had 2 burnt wires and 3 broken ceramics on the plugs. I knew there was something going on with the car, I could hear it upon crank. Even better yet, the car wasn't even throwing any CEL's:cookoo:


Anyone run into this problem before and have any ideas or input?

CBVLS6
01-29-08, 03:47 PM
OH, and I still haven't been able to get in touch with StealthV for a tune after many emails and about 2 months

Anyone know where he is?


EDIT: lol, saw thread below. I NEED A TUNE.... HELP ME STEALTH V

heavymetals
01-29-08, 03:51 PM
I modified some GRANATELLI spark plug cables to right angle exits.

Works great.

CBVLS6
01-29-08, 03:54 PM
I modified some GRANATELLI spark plug cables to right angle exits.

Works great.

Could you give me some more info, maybe a part number and how you modified them?

The Tony Show
01-29-08, 03:57 PM
The broken ceramic is probably from the headers contacting the plugs during installation- unless you removed the plugs prior to installing the headers, I would imagine that's how that happened.

I've been keeping a real close eye on my plug wires, and so far haven't had any problems. Knock on wood.

CBVLS6
01-29-08, 04:01 PM
The broken ceramic is probably from the headers contacting the plugs during installation- unless you removed the plugs prior to installing the headers, I would imagine that's how that happened.

I've been keeping a real close eye on my plug wires, and so far haven't had any problems. Knock on wood.

Thats what I was thinking, yet it seems a few that appeared undamaged upon intial inspection, are now cracked. Maybe I just didnt notice it the first time around or the cracks were so tiny it wasn't visable.

The Tony Show
01-29-08, 04:21 PM
I've had a loud clicking noise at idle and a "clacking" sound under WOT since installing my Kooks, and I keep meaning to check the plugs for cracks (I didn't remove mine either). I suspect it's a leak, but I'm holding out hope it's just a cracked plug.

You didn't happen to have a similar noise, did you?

trukk
01-29-08, 04:28 PM
I have burnt two wires so far. If you dirve a fair ammount, and don't have coated headers + Koolsox, you are in for a rough time. Without those, I'd be burning up wires by case.

You gotta pay to play with headers. I have the most problem with the front passenger wire, it just barely touches the header main there. I have a few spare spark plug wires in my spare tire well, just in case.

BTW, I had a really bad missfire when lugging my enginre. According to EWill3rd, that is when the current draw is the hgihest, which causes the arcing, which causes the misfire. Swapped out the wires and it's all good. Plugs were fine.

GET SOME KOOLSOX, no matter what you do.

-Chris

CBVLS6
01-29-08, 04:35 PM
I've had a loud clicking noise at idle and a "clacking" sound under WOT since installing my Kooks, and I keep meaning to check the plugs for cracks (I didn't remove mine either). I suspect it's a leak, but I'm holding out hope it's just a cracked plug.

You didn't happen to have a similar noise, did you?

Yeah dude I did, I made a post about it right after install, pull it up off my profile. I think it was titled "left header clicking, the noise def. changed when the problem was fixed the first time. To be honest, the car sounds a little different every time I crank it, sometimes loud and mean like it should, sometimes like a John Deere tractor.

Do you hear the noise echo off walls/concrete barriers and stuff when you drive by?


Are you getting misfires, which aren't always picked up by the EMU, just a shake that you can feel in the cabin?


I am still suspect of an exhaust leak, however I have inspected the seals many times and cant seem to find anything.

heavymetals
01-29-08, 04:42 PM
Here is a link for the wires:

http://www.jdsperformance.com/index.asp?initemuid=747&fcmd=item&inmake=0

What I did was remove the boot (carefully) from the coil end and replaced it with a rt angle boot from MSD.

The Granatelli wires were the only ones I found that I could modify to to this as the coil end contact would take being bent 90 deg and still reach down far enough into the hole to make contact.

If you want to make yourself a custom length set of cables I have the proper tools to do that to.

The Tony Show
01-29-08, 04:52 PM
Yeah dude I did, I made a post about it right after install, pull it up off my profile. I think it was titled "left header clicking, the noise def. changed when the problem was fixed the first time. To be honest, the car sounds a little different every time I crank it, sometimes loud and mean like it should, sometimes like a John Deere tractor.

Do you hear the noise echo off walls/concrete barriers and stuff when you drive by?


Are you getting misfires, which aren't always picked up by the EMU, just a shake that you can feel in the cabin?


I am still suspect of an exhaust leak, however I have inspected the seals many times and cant seem to find anything.

Yeah, whenever I drive past anything (bushes, other cars, barriers) it sounds like a sewing machine is cruising next to me.

It seems to be running fine, no misfires or shakes, but if I go WOT it sounds great until almost exactly 4,000 rpms, at which point the exhaust note changes from a nice roar to something that sounds like a baseball card in bicycle spokes.

Keys8541
01-29-08, 06:05 PM
interesting you guys are having these problems with the kooks, how long have you had them on the car until you started having these problems? ive had mine for 2 weeks now and have driven like mad the last few weeks and i havent noticed anything wrong or any odd sounds.

The Tony Show
01-29-08, 06:48 PM
Since day 1 with the Kooks. George from Kooks posted up that he would be in contact with those of us who were having noise/flange leak issues, but I sent him a PM and never heard back. Probably going to send another one soon, as Kooks has a good reputation and it's probably just an oversight.

trukk
01-29-08, 06:54 PM
Yeah, whenever I drive past anything (bushes, other cars, barriers) it sounds like a sewing machine is cruising next to me.

It seems to be running fine, no misfires or shakes, but if I go WOT it sounds great until almost exactly 4,000 rpms, at which point the exhaust note changes from a nice roar to something that sounds like a baseball card in bicycle spokes.

It took about a month for mine to start making that noise.

Mod hell, what ya gonna do?

-Chris

The Tony Show
01-29-08, 06:56 PM
...and what was the solution?

Black Sunshine
01-30-08, 06:34 AM
Man PLEASE! I gotta get my kooks over to the coating shop so I can install them.

On the wires, I've been running Scott Performance wires in my Impala for two years with sleeves. No problemo. Even with all the turbo and uncoated stainless header heat they have held up extrememly well. They have quite a few options for do it your self or he builds them up to order.
http://www.scottperformance.com/home.htm

CBVLS6
01-31-08, 10:36 AM
Since day 1 with the Kooks. George from Kooks posted up that he would be in contact with those of us who were having noise/flange leak issues, but I sent him a PM and never heard back. Probably going to send another one soon, as Kooks has a good reputation and it's probably just an oversight.

Yup since day 1

The Tony Show
01-31-08, 03:37 PM
The shop is putting in new plugs as we speak- I'll let you know if it has any effect on the noise.

The Tony Show
01-31-08, 05:01 PM
Nope- plugs that were in there looked fine, and the clicking idle and clacky WOT is still there. :(

CTSV_Rob
01-31-08, 07:50 PM
Still like my B&B, sounds sweet.

I sure hope George takes care of you Tony because they are my only choice for the larger Header tubes but I will not give them any business unless they take care of you and others on the forum.

NormV
01-31-08, 09:27 PM
I wonder if a scanner could pickup the misfires from bad wires or cracked plugs that are intermitent? HPTuners?

I picked rgd's kooks and will let you know.

I have been able to crack the metal electrode while not cracking the porcelain.

Norm

CBVLS6
02-01-08, 10:10 AM
Nope- plugs that were in there looked fine, and the clicking idle and clacky WOT is still there. :(

I think you and I are having the same problem. I even have even put in the Percy's dead soft gaskets, which helped, but did not entirely dampen the noise.

I have also had the car inspected for potential lifter problems and nothing is turning up. The way you are describing it is EXACTLY how it sounds on my car, clicky at idle and Clacky at WOT. Its difficult to describe it just doesnt sound right.

It HAS TO BE the flanges, theres just no where else it could be coming from, I have ripped off the cats and inspected the connections, merge collector, etc. and its turned up nothing. I am approaching what I spent on the headers in installation and troubleshooting costs.

I think you and I need to go at them together, they will be more likely to plead no contest if we have the same problem. Especially since I have returned one of their headers ALREADY for a f'ked flange......






- Colin

Chef
02-01-08, 10:17 AM
Need socks for sure on the plug wires. I re-routed the brake lines around the passenger side header because it was getting brittle from the header.

Another Mod Hell $ to do...:stirpot:

The Tony Show
02-01-08, 10:21 AM
I think you and I are having the same problem. I even have even put in the Percy's dead soft gaskets, which helped, but did not entirely dampen the noise.

I have also had the car inspected for potential lifter problems and nothing is turning up. The way you are describing it is EXACTLY how it sounds on my car, clicky at idle and Clacky at WOT. Its difficult to describe it just doesnt sound right.

It HAS TO BE the flanges, theres just no where else it could be coming from, I have ripped off the cats and inspected the connections, merge collector, etc. and its turned up nothing. I am approaching what I spent on the headers in installation and troubleshooting costs.

I think you and I need to go at them together, they will be more likely to plead no contest if we have the same problem. Especially since I have returned one of their headers ALREADY for a f'ked flange......






- Colin

I'll send George at Kooks a polite PM today and include your name as having the same problem. I'm not going to go nuts, attack him or badmouth them on the forums, as Kooks has a very good reputation. We should give him the chance to help us come up with a solution before going crazy.

-Tony

HushH
02-01-08, 10:40 AM
Mine have been making the same noise as well. I've been meaning to check for leaks, but haven't had a chance to yet.

RunningOnEMT
02-01-08, 10:57 AM
I have the same clicking and clacking as tony

i found a neat trick though

when i changed my plugs the last time i took a piece of surgical tubing and slid it over the ceramic on the plug when i was putting it in

that way it doesnt contact anything

saved my ass with those back 2 especially the passenger rear plug

Chef
02-01-08, 11:09 AM
I had the click clack too. Drove me nuts until I found out it was a shredded header gasket (again) on the passenger side but it sounded like a lot more than an exhaust leak. But when replaced all was well.

In fact, techs were saying they never heard a leak sound like that:bomb: but it was and got fixed...no mas noise...

CBVLS6
02-01-08, 11:21 AM
I'll send George at Kooks a polite PM today and include your name as having the same problem. I'm not going to go nuts, attack him or badmouth them on the forums, as Kooks has a very good reputation. We should give him the chance to help us come up with a solution before going crazy.

-Tony

sounds good, let me know.

rand49er
02-01-08, 11:32 AM
Anybody (Chris?) got a suggestion for where to get Koolsox? I'm not crazy about changing wires if I can get away with it.

RunningOnEMT
02-01-08, 11:33 AM
Anybody (Chris?) got a suggestion for where to get Koolsox? I'm not crazy about changing wires if I can get away with it.

i ordered mine from lingenfelter performance....they have them custom cut to fit the wires

RunningOnEMT
02-01-08, 11:34 AM
I'll send George at Kooks a polite PM today and include your name as having the same problem. I'm not going to go nuts, attack him or badmouth them on the forums, as Kooks has a very good reputation. We should give him the chance to help us come up with a solution before going crazy.

-Tony

hey stick my name in there as well....

The Tony Show
02-01-08, 01:13 PM
I had the click clack too. Drove me nuts until I found out it was a shredded header gasket (again) on the passenger side but it sounded like a lot more than an exhaust leak. But when replaced all was well.

In fact, techs were saying they never heard a leak sound like that:bomb: but it was and got fixed...no mas noise...

I replaced the Carbon gaskets with Percy's aluminum, and it still does it. The noise was there immediately on startup, so unless the gasket blew when I turned the key I doubt that's it. I do appreciate the input Chef, as you are reigning king of CTS-V Mod Hell. :D

PM will be sent soon, and I'm including HushH, CBVLS6 and Running on EMT.

CBVLS6
02-01-08, 02:21 PM
I replaced the Carbon gaskets with Percy's aluminum, and it still does it. The noise was there immediately on startup, so unless the gasket blew when I turned the key I doubt that's it. I do appreciate the input Chef, as you are reigning king of CTS-V Mod Hell. :D

PM will be sent soon, and I'm including HushH, CBVLS6 and Running on EMT.

I talked to george today earlier on the phone about the problem, who I will say first off is a really nice and amiable guy. After discussing the possiblities, he convincingly explained to me that he thinks its valvetrain noises the are resonating through the 18gauge SS. He went on to tell me that if anyone had a mechanics stethescope, I dont know exactly what its called, and they put it up to the place where all the final bends are on the primaries before they head towards the collector the sound will be exaggerated.

In my opinion either he's right, or we are all having the same specific type of leak from the flange. I'm really hoping its a leak, cause this phenomena that seems to affecting us, is absolutely obnoxious. And should this turn out not to be a leak, where the hell do we go from here....

Anyway, send your PM documenting this, I am taking measures over the next week to wipe down all suspect area around the flange monitor them for any carbon accumulation. I think that we all may just have a minor flange warp which is not really allowing for a drastic exhaust leak but enough to allow reverberating engine noises to escape from the engine bay, producing this sound.

Alright, I'm out.

trukk
02-01-08, 02:47 PM
Anybody (Chris?) got a suggestion for where to get Koolsox? I'm not crazy about changing wires if I can get away with it.

A couple of options:

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=129,53,363_3660&action=product

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=129,53,363_4492&action=product

http://www.bsrproducts.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=111&products_id=1945


I replaced the Carbon gaskets with Percy's aluminum, and it still does it. The noise was there immediately on startup, so unless the gasket blew when I turned the key I doubt that's it. I do appreciate the input Chef, as you are reigning king of CTS-V Mod Hell. :D

PM will be sent soon, and I'm including HushH, CBVLS6 and Running on EMT.


Tony,

Might as well add me too.

-Chris

trukk
02-01-08, 03:13 PM
...<SNIP>...
I think that we all may just have a minor flange warp which is not really allowing for a drastic exhaust leak but enough to allow reverberating engine noises to escape from the engine bay, producing this sound.
...</SNIP>...


I agree with this. It took about 2 weeks before my car started to make the really obnoxious 'flapping' noise above 4k. Before that it definately made the sewing machine racket at all RPM's, you can really hear it when drving with the window down near a Jersey wall.

It's anoying, but I'm not sure it's anoying enough to pull the headers off the car, and ship them to Gerorge.

-Chris

NormV
02-01-08, 03:17 PM
Is everyone running the stock engine cover? With mine removed I could hear the injectors chattering away and reinstalled it. This is with everything stock under the hood.

I have SLP headers on my C5 which has no insulation besides what is the back side of the carpet and sounds like an exhaust leak too. The only other thing would be header wrap as long as there are no leaks and DTC codes.

Also what size headers and mated to which exhaust?


Norm

CBVLS6
02-01-08, 03:29 PM
I agree with this. It took about 2 weeks before my car started to make the really obnoxious 'flapping' noise above 4k. Before that it definately made the sewing machine racket at all RPM's, you can really hear it when drving with the window down near a Jersey wall.

It's anoying, but I'm not sure it's anoying enough to pull the headers off the car, and ship them to Gerorge.

-Chris

I dont look at that as an acceptable solution, you know? I only have 1 car available and why should I have to pay more money during down time for a product that is faulty. I've already sent one back for a warped flange, I think it may be characteristic of SS that they are working with to warp when welded. Its only a small percentage of us that are having problems, it may just be a critical tolerance that is being missed on a few sets.

Ive already gone the whole nine yards with my headers; returned one for a new header, new studs, new gaskets, ripped them off for inspection and re-installation, new o2 sensors... and they still sound like shit, I mean come on already:banghead:

The Tony Show
02-01-08, 03:44 PM
really obnoxious 'flapping' noise above 4k.



"Flapping" is such a perfect way to describe the noise- it sounds like there's a cloth rag strapped to the front fender flapping in a 100 mph wind.

I'm not quite as pissed as CBV yet, but it is definitely frustrating to spend over a grand and have your car sound kind of shitty. When I take off half throttle it sounds mean as heck, but if I'm WOT it sounds like a John Deere tractor. :(

At this point, I've replaced a full set of spark plugs and two gasket sets, as well as having the entire catback welded to try and remove the possibility of a leak (and the labor to do all this). That's all on my dime, and it's starting to add up.

CBVLS6
02-04-08, 03:56 PM
any update on this?

trukk
02-04-08, 04:20 PM
any update on this?

Heh, was I supposed to be doing something here? :o
-Chris

Keys8541
02-04-08, 04:42 PM
can anyone post up a video of their car doing this.

The Tony Show
02-04-08, 04:46 PM
any update on this?

Haven't heard back from George yet. If there's no response tomorrow I'll drop them a phone call.

The Tony Show
02-04-08, 04:46 PM
can anyone post up a video of their car doing this.

I'll try tonight, but it's going to be hard to hear it over wind noise.

HushH
02-04-08, 05:20 PM
I'll try to post up a vid as well.

trukk
02-04-08, 06:26 PM
I'm at work, and can;t listen to this vid to see if you can hear it outside the car, but Mike Davis cobbled together some video of my car at VIR this summer. All but 1 (the second shot) is my car.

HhXYdSrnCP8

Link included, incase I FUBAR'd the youtube tag (again). YouTube is blocked at work, so I can't check it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhXYdSrnCP8

-Chris

CBVLS6
02-04-08, 06:51 PM
I'm at work, and can;t listen to this vid to see if you can hear it outside the car, but Mike Davis cobbled together some video of my car at VIR this summer. All but 1 (the second shot) is my car.


-Chris


You can sorta hear it in the start of the clip when you crank the car. Mine clicking/clacking/flapping WAY louder than yours though.

BTW, that vid is badass, makes me wanna hit the track like now!

crankedupforit
02-06-08, 08:18 PM
Kinda hear it at 1:38 on the video timer in the esses. Is that it? Clickity clack?

Mike