: What's Cadillac's answer going to be to this (very big Lincoln)?



Lord Cadillac
01-14-08, 01:28 AM
http://www.lincolnforums.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3507

This vehicle is HUGE! Bigger than the Town Car; bigger than the most recent Fleetwood Brougham. This is going to be the roomiest four passenger vehicle on the road besides the Rolls Royce Phantom and a few Bentleys.. They're calling it the Learjet of the road..

I guess we all know what's replacing the Lincoln Town Car now...

Maxb49
01-14-08, 05:04 PM
Bigger than a Fleetwood Brougham? It's only 200 inches long. Better than a Lincoln Town Car? Please. I don't care how many turbochargers the engine has, it's still a V6. I'm going to sit here and watch the entire luxury car segment drive off a cliff. In the mean time, I'll keep my Town Car.

NOT ON MY WATCH
01-14-08, 10:22 PM
It may be roomy, but it's downright ugly.

racecardude310
01-15-08, 04:24 AM
I agree it really looks like something a 8 year old child would scribble...

Lord Cadillac
01-15-08, 10:47 AM
Bigger than a Fleetwood Brougham? It's only 200 inches long. Better than a Lincoln Town Car? Please. I don't care how many turbochargers the engine has, it's still a V6. I'm going to sit here and watch the entire luxury car segment drive off a cliff. In the mean time, I'll keep my Town Car.
I should have said, "bigger inside"... It's got more room. Even width.

Jesda
01-15-08, 11:15 AM
I hope Cadillac's answer to that is dead silence.

GTPprix
01-15-08, 11:43 AM
I hope Cadillac's answer to that is dead silence.

Probably more like a muffled cackle... LOL

c5 rv
01-15-08, 11:45 AM
Check out the MKT's one-piece windshield & glass roof. That certainly won't make it to production. (Any bets on how much it would cost to replace the glass when the windshield gets chipped? $5K?)

One piece I read said that if it goes to production, the 4-seater would be morphed into a 3-row crossover. Ho, hum.

Lincoln (and Ford) seem to be doing a lot with short crossovers and tall cars. ( 60" - 67" tall) This seems to be the sweet spot for easy access and higher sight lines for the driver. All of the Cadillac sedans are in the 57-58" tall range.

Rumor has it that the 415 HP ecoboost engine will be available in the MKS in 2010. Woohoo!

gothicaleigh
01-15-08, 04:04 PM
Why would Cadillac respond to that?
Lincoln is well beneath Cadillac anymore. Let Buick handle it.


Better than a Lincoln Town Car? Please. I don't care how many turbochargers the engine has, it's still a V6. I'm going to sit here and watch the entire luxury car segment drive off a cliff. In the mean time, I'll keep my Town Car.

Yeah, because it would be hard for a V6 to out-muscle all 235 massive horses that the TownCar's current V8 puts out. :rolleyes:

CTSV_Rob
01-15-08, 09:43 PM
Wow, That's even uglier then the $150,000 RR Phantom replica.

MauiV
01-20-08, 07:47 PM
I cant figure Lincoln out. They had a great car in the LS but just didnt have enough interior room. The trunk was also tiny. Then they release the HORRIDLY ugly MKZ to replace the LS segment. The worst rear end on the road. It is a glorified Fusion for Gods sake.

The geniuses at Ford are a little late to the party with the Interceptor concept and the Lincoln MKR, which is a bad ass lookin mofo. They should have made the LS available with the supercharged 8 they were putting into the Jag S Type R. If they had I may still be driving a Lincoln and not the V.

And they wonder why they are going broke. They cant even get a production motor over 300hp without a blower.

Blackout
01-20-08, 07:54 PM
And they wonder why they are going broke. They cant even get a production motor over 300hp without a blower.

lol and Cadillac has what again? Have you looked at the engines in the V lineup? Hell Cadillac is dumping the V8's and going with V6's and turbo diesels instead. What's the saying about people living in glass houses again?

EDIT: And the LS was not a great car. Nice car, but not great by any means

MauiV
01-20-08, 09:44 PM
Ford has to blow an V8 to get 300.

GM is getting 505 in the LS7 and 400 in the LS6/LS2

The new ZR1? 625+ when the General decides to charge an 8.

I get Fords on the Z plan price and STILL wouldnt buy one at a cut rate.

Blackout
01-20-08, 10:01 PM
Ford has to blow an V8 to get 300.

GM is getting 505 in the LS7 and 400 in the LS6/LS2

The new ZR1? 625+ when the General decides to charge an 8.

I get Fords on the Z plan price and STILL wouldnt buy one at a cut rate.Were talking about Lincolns and Cadillacs here.

gothicaleigh
01-21-08, 12:45 PM
'04-'07 CTS-V = 400hp/400tq
'06-up STS/SRX/XLR = 320hp/315tq

...and when they do decide to slap forced induction on them:
STS-V = 469hp/439tq
CTS-V = 550+hp/550+tq

What does Lincoln have again? An "impressive" 235hp V8 mated to a two-ton-plus TownCar? That's not even competitive versus the bargain brands. The last V8 Cadillac with power that low was over 15 years ago!

Hell, Cadillac has naturally aspirated V6's that out-perform pretty much anything Lincoln can bring.

Blackout
01-21-08, 01:12 PM
'04-'07 CTS-V = 400hp/400tq
'06-up STS/SRX/XLR = 320hp/315tq

...and when they do decide to slap forced induction on them:
STS-V = 469hp/439tq
CTS-V = 550+hp/550+tq

What does Lincoln have again? An "impressive" 235hp V8 mated to a two-ton-plus TownCar? That's not even competitive versus the bargain brands. The last V8 Cadillac with power that low was over 15 years ago!

Hell, Cadillac has naturally aspirated V6's that out-perform pretty much anything Lincoln can bring.
You do realize that the engine from the Town Car has been around for about 17 years now if my memory serves me correctly. But your comparing the Cadillac's performance brand versus a car that is mostly used for livery companies. The engine may not be super powerful but it will run forever and is basically bullet proof. Can you say the samething about the N*? lol no you cannot. Lincoln has taken longer for it to come around then Cadillac but once the twin force engines start coming out Lincoln will be right there. 2009 will be a good year for Lincoln, it will be the beginning of the rebirth I guess you can say. The MKS will be coming out with over 400 hp with the twin force 3.5 V6 and it will also be a flex fuel engine from what i've been hearing. Does Cadillac have any flex fuel vehicles that are putting out that kinda power? i just wanna see as to what Cadillac is going to do with the XLR. The base model engine is the N* and Cadillac has already confirmed that the N* is basically dead in the water so what engine are they going to replace it with? I mean the car is based off of the Corvette's chasis so I guess an LS2 or something could find its way under the hood but either way I'd rather see Cadillac have their own engine for their halo car instead of ripping off of the Corvette. But I do find it funny that after all of these years of GM guys ripping on Ford guys because Ford needs to do F/I applications to make performance cars now GM is doing the exact same thing and GM guys couldn't be more happy with them doing so.

MauiV
01-21-08, 02:32 PM
I like the GM blown cars because that is giving me 200 more horse than what a blown Ford is delivering. Cadi has a V6 delivering 304 sitting at the dealers RIGHT NOW.

My naturally aspirated, 2 ton, 4 door V eats Mustangs up ALL DAY LONG and still gets 24+ mpg on the highway.

Lincoln is now building ugly cars at an inflated price. The MKZ is horrible, the MKX just as ugly and the Navigator rear end has been ruined. If they dont build the MKR with 500+ HP I still wont drive a Ford product.

There are no ethenol stations within 50 miles of my house so a flex fuel car is pretty much USELESS to me.

Ford bet the company on big SUV's and lost. They are way behind and much more than a dollar short.

Night Wolf
01-22-08, 06:32 PM
210hp/275tq in my Town Car is plenty. Gets the job done nicely, its peppy, smooth, 87 octane and as mentioned... it's like the energizer bunny :) I choose reliable over powerful.

I guess I'm the only one that actually likes that concept car? That grille/nose won't make it to production, but still.

Blackout
01-22-08, 11:34 PM
210hp/275tq in my Town Car is plenty. Gets the job done nicely, its peppy, smooth, 87 octane and as mentioned... it's like the energizer bunny :) I choose reliable over powerful.

I guess I'm the only one that actually likes that concept car? That grille/nose won't make it to production, but still.

Exactly. Not every car made has to be a performance car

mrplease
01-23-08, 10:50 AM
lol and Cadillac has what again? Have you looked at the engines in the V lineup? Hell Cadillac is dumping the V8's and going with V6's and turbo diesels instead. What's the saying about people living in glass houses again?

EDIT: And the LS was not a great car. Nice car, but not great by any means

well motor trend awarded it as Motor Trend Car of the Year in 2000 & the the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has rated the LS as “one of the five safest cars of all time.”

mrplease
01-23-08, 10:55 AM
'04-'07 CTS-V = 400hp/400tq
'06-up STS/SRX/XLR = 320hp/315tq

...and when they do decide to slap forced induction on them:
STS-V = 469hp/439tq
CTS-V = 550+hp/550+tq

What does Lincoln have again? An "impressive" 235hp V8 mated to a two-ton-plus Town Car? That's not even competitive versus the bargain brands. The last V8 Cadillac with power that low was over 15 years ago!

Hell, Cadillac has naturally aspirated V6's that out-perform pretty much anything Lincoln can bring.

you do understand the towncar isn't a performance car don't you?

Lord Cadillac
01-23-08, 11:44 AM
well motor trend awarded it as Motor Trend Car of the Year in 2000 & the the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has rated the LS as “one of the five safest cars of all time.”
The Lincoln LS was nice, but I agree with Blackout - it wasn't "great" by any means. How many times has the Toyota Camry been "car of the year"?

gothicaleigh
01-23-08, 12:29 PM
But your comparing the Cadillac's performance brand versus a car that is mostly used for livery companies.


you do understand the towncar isn't a performance car don't you?

Neither are the STS or SRX (listed with 320hp Northstars).
If you want a closer comparison, pull up the numbers for the DTS (292hp N*).

That post was responding to the accusation below that like Ford, Cadillac could only produce competitive engines by resorting to forced induction.

"But I do find it funny that after all of these years of GM guys ripping on Ford guys because Ford needs to do F/I applications to make performance cars now GM is doing the exact same thing and GM guys couldn't be more happy with them doing so." ~Blackout

Yes, the TownCar is most definately not a performance vehicle (I would not consider any of the modern Lincolns to be), but as a luxury vehicle it should have a premium engine, not an underpowered Ford V8.


You do realize that the engine from the Town Car has been around for about 17 years now if my memory serves me correctly.

So what? The Northstar has been around for over 15 years.

Ford's inability to update their engine to keep up with modern expectations is not a very good excuse.


Can you say the samething about the N*? lol no you cannot.

I've owned two Northstar cars, both running into high mileage with no problems. "lol" yes I can.


Lincoln has taken longer for it to come around then Cadillac but once the twin force engines start coming out Lincoln will be right there. 2009 will be a good year for Lincoln, it will be the beginning of the rebirth I guess you can say. The MKS will be coming out with over 400 hp with the twin force 3.5 V6 and it will also be a flex fuel engine from what i've been hearing. Does Cadillac have any flex fuel vehicles that are putting out that kinda power?

If you want flexfuel, buy a Chevy (they've been available since 2006). While Lincoln once again plays catch-up with lesser GM makes, Cadillac is moving forward with Hydrogen, a true replacement for gasoline.

Blackout
01-23-08, 01:41 PM
Neither are the STS or SRX (listed with 320hp Northstars).
If you want a closer comparison, pull up the numbers for the DTS (292hp N*).That's Cadillac's decision to do so and Lincoln's decision to do so. Do you really think that it would be hard for them to toss in the Mustang 4.6 V8? No, they're using the older 4.6 because it's a proven engine that is bullet proof. The Northstar is a nice powerful motor but your only kidding yourself if you actually think that it has as good of a track record as the Town Car's 4.6.


That post was responding to the accusation below that like Ford, Cadillac could only produce competitive engines by resorting to forced induction.Well the whole V lineup consists of F/I engines so I am wrong how? They have the Northstar but it's far from being a "performance" engine in stock trim. The DI V6 is putting out damn near the same power hence why Cadillac is dumping the Northstar engine in 2010. Don't get me into as to how/why Cadillac has to reduce the displacement of the Northstar for the STS-V and XLR-V for the F/I application. When Ford supercharged the 4.6 how much did they reduce the displacement again? They didn't have to because Ford 4.6 is a better motor. Between Ford's 4.6 and the Northstar which one has a following behind it for blowing head gaskets? Certainly not the Ford 4.6.


Yes, the TownCar is most definately not a performance vehicle (I would not consider any of the modern Lincolns to be), but as a luxury vehicle it should have a premium engine, not an underpowered Ford V8.Again read what what I posted above and think to yourself would you rather have the "premium" Northstar motor that blows head gaskets or a slightly underpowered Town Car motor that will easily go over 200k miles without any issues? I think the Town Car's motor is more "premium" then the Northstar.



Ford's inability to update their engine to keep up with modern expectations is not a very good excuse.Nobody is complaining about the engine besides you and the others that feel every car made now adays has to have 300+ hp or it's a piece of junk.


I've owned two Northstar cars, both running into high mileage with no problems. "lol" yes I can.Congrats, and I hope you never have a problem with either of them, but the engines track record proves otherwise.


If you want flexfuel, buy a Chevy (they've been available since 2006). While Lincoln once again plays catch-up with lesser GM makes, Cadillac is moving forward with Hydrogen, a true replacement for gasoline.lol my 1995 Ford Taurus has a flex fuel engine option. I loved watching GM making all of these commercials about "flex fuel" and how they're the leader. But Ford was already doing that a decade before

Blackout
01-23-08, 01:43 PM
The Lincoln LS was nice, but I agree with Blackout - it wasn't "great" by any means. How many times has the Toyota Camry been "car of the year"?

Hell the Toyota Prius was Motor Trends car of the year in 2004 lol. Car of the year means jack. Hell in 2002 the Ford Thunderbird was car of the year lmao

MauiV
01-23-08, 10:36 PM
every car made now adays has to have 300+ hp or it's a piece of junk.

Now we finally agree on something.

Lord Cadillac
01-24-08, 10:37 AM
ANYWAY.. The reason I feel Cadillac needs an answer to the Lincoln MKT is... As it stands, Crossover SUVs are a little too small. They could be bigger. Wider and longer wouldn't hurt. And this Lincoln is just that. It's on a car platform - so the driving experience won't be truck-like, but it'll have the roominess of a full-size SUV. If you don't feel there's a need for Cadillac to counter something like this, than we'll just have to see what happens if and when Lincoln places these on showroom floors. I think the same thing is going to happen as when Lincoln came out with the Navigator.

If Cadillac doesn't start planning now, they're going to have another first generation Escalade on their hands to compete with it.

ejguillot
01-26-08, 09:05 AM
Don't get me into as to how/why Cadillac has to reduce the displacement of the Northstar for the STS-V and XLR-V for the F/I application. When Ford supercharged the 4.6 how much did they reduce the displacement again? They didn't have to because Ford 4.6 is a better motor.

Blackout, you're leaving out one important fact! When Ford F/I the 4.6, they did it with an IRON block. (see the 03-04 Cobra Mustang.) And that was at a 100+ lb weight penalty over the Al block.

Now, let's see... Lose .2L (4% of the original displacement, easy to regain with a hair more boost), or gain 100+ lbs (in the front of the car, worsening the weight distribution)... I'll take Cadillac's answer, thanks.

And I haven't heard of ANY F/I Northstar having head gasket issues, have you?

MauiV
01-26-08, 10:30 AM
Blackout, you're leaving out one important fact! When Ford F/I the 4.6, they did it with an IRON block. (see the 03-04 Cobra Mustang.) And that was at a 100+ lb weight penalty over the Al block.

Now, let's see... Lose .2L (4% of the original displacement, easy to regain with a hair more boost), or gain 100+ lbs (in the front of the car, worsening the weight distribution)... I'll take Cadillac's answer, thanks.

And I haven't heard of ANY F/I Northstar having head gasket issues, have you?


And most importantly, in the end, your still driving a FORD!!!

93DevilleUSMC
02-03-08, 07:45 PM
I hope Cadillac's answer to that is dead silence.


Probably more like a muffled cackle... LOL


Wow, That's even uglier then the $150,000 RR Phantom replica.


It may be roomy, but it's downright ugly.

The front grille looks like that car from the Alec Baldwin movie "The Shadow".
They're both ugly; the movie flopped, and this car will flop.

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
02-08-08, 03:21 PM
I hope caddy does nothing. The DTS and STS are just as roomy and comfy as that thing is ever gonna get. They look a hell of a lot better too.

mlprus
03-27-09, 12:34 AM
I wish people would stop calling caddys junk or the n*s junk because "they blow head gaskets, DER HUR HUR", please, what post 2000 caddy has had a big problem with head gaskets? They are both internal combustion engines, they do have compression, they are both suspect to head gasket failure. By the way, how the hell are you going to join a cadillac forum and then dog on cadillacs all day. Find something better to do. I'll take a caddy n* with 100+K over a 4.6 ford with 100+K anyday. Well, hold on, the ford engines are alright,............as boat anchors.

Blackout
03-27-09, 09:03 PM
I wish people would stop calling caddys junk or the n*s junk because "they blow head gaskets, DER HUR HUR",So an engine that has a large history of blowing head gaskets all of the time shouldn't be considered junk? You're right, it's one of the best engines out there:cookoo:


please, what post 2000 caddy has had a big problem with head gaskets?Ask ryannel2003 that one

They are both internal combustion engines, they do have compression, they are both suspect to head gasket failure.Since when has the 4.6 Ford V8 had a history of blowing head gaskets as bad as the Northstar?


By the way, how the hell are you going to join a cadillac forum and then dog on cadillacs all day. Find something better to do.You have been here for all of 2 weeks, there's a lot you need to learn about this place


I'll take a caddy n* with 100+K over a 4.6 ford with 100+K anyday. Well, hold on, the ford engines are alright,............as boat anchors.:cookoo: :yup:

thebigjimsho
03-29-09, 05:29 PM
The 4.6 has had a few blunders along the way but all have been covered and fixed. For who the Town Car appeals to, the 4.6 is adequate in power. Not great, but OK. I will say that the driving dynamics and power of a N* is more appealing. But the 4.6 is about as bulletproof a motor as there is and for guys like me, that is a huge + ...

V-Eight
04-04-09, 01:44 PM
I don't care how many turbochargers the engine has, it's still a V6..

The Grand National was a V6, it kicked the shit out of every V8 at the time.

inurok
08-17-09, 06:11 AM
What an ugly Lincoln! And only comes in V6s? I think i will Pass on that dragon wagon..

thebigjimsho
08-20-09, 05:31 PM
p00p...