Sorry for the rant, but I had a 2004 CTS-V that went through 2 rear ends and left puddles of rear end differential fluid all over my garage. Cleaned it all up, turned in the car, got an STS-V 6 months ago and have NOT beat on the car at all, well when compared to the CTS-V.

Anyway, with 6k miles, I have a new puddle of rear end diff fluid on my garage floor...WTF ??

I did not do a search, but are these the same rear ends that were in the CTS-V ??? Are there known issues with these rear ends as well ??

Damn, I can't believe it..For some reason, I just assumed they worked out the bugs in the rear ends of these cars...

There's a new recall/fix. Contact your dealer.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,5143,695238794,00.html

There's a new recall/fix. Contact your dealer.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,5143,695238794,00.html

yup +1


F

There's a new recall/fix. Contact your dealer.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,5143,695238794,00.html


:yeah: Jesda got you hooked up. :)

The fix should solve the issue.

edit- The F-man beat me to the punch :D

"unauthorized change to the pinion seal material".....i wonder if its the same manufacture that makes our front healdlights??? :suspect:.....lol...

Its Getrag, isnt it? Or is this seal not provided by the differential manufacturer?

Just an update to the saga.....
Made an appointment for the stealership. Told them what was happening, they indicated they had it covered,knew all about the leaks, just bring it in.

Also. I neglected to mention another issue in the thread that is bothering me. Car has a loud vibration coming from the cat converter. Very loud
when it is cold, but tones down a bit once hot.

Anyway, today I get a call (after 2 days at the shop) to come get my car. They ordered a 'rear end kit' for the multiple leaks they found, and
a new cat converter as mine evidentially collapsed the internals ??? I have to drop the car off for another day, when the parts arrive.

Anyone hear of a cat converter that has to be replaced after 6k miles ?? And if they were aware of the rear end leaks from these cars, why didn't they
just have the kits on the shelves ?

They don't build the cars "knowing" about the issues.
When something like the diff leak comes up they do an investigation to find the cause. They found it a couple months ago, re-engineered a new design part and found a supplier to manufacture them, had some made, added them to their parts catalog and made orders to get stock in the distribution centers and got some to fill the shelves then released a bulletin, now they are preparing for a recall. I am not sure where that makes them negligent, by doing everything they can to rectify this problem. You can't make 300,000 seal kits overnight.
I am getting so tired of people bashing GM because of something a subcontractor did I can't even describe what I am feeling at this point.

Yes I have heard of converters needing early replacement, probably due to a manufacturing issue as well.

Also, GM does have plenty of these parts "on the shelves" but GM dealers have to pay big money to keep
GM parts sitting around waiting for you to need one. Most of this is controlled by computers that keep track of items that are actually sold. Since these new parts have never been sold... because they are a NEW design, your dealer may not have any on hand. They can overnight them or get them within a couple of days from their parts distribution centers. I am sure within the next few weeks they will have plenty.

Just because you don't know the answers doesn't mean everyone that works for GM or a dealership is a slacker.
Relax and let your dealer handle it the best they can, I am sure they are making every effort to resolve your issues. If not, then find another dealer that will.

Although I can agree with the premise of your response, the fact that I worked for GM car assembly division for 15 years, coupled with the two 'whole' rear ends I went through on the 2004 CTS-V, must be what has me frustrated. I know a little more about cars than most, and I loved the CTS-V in spite of the wheel hop and run around I got for 2 rear ends. With
all that I bought the STS-V.

For some reason, I just assumed Cadillac would have figured out by now, the 'weak link' in these cars IS the rear end. Both rear ends come from the same supplier (I believe).

How long do you rub coal hoping their is a diamond in there somewhere. If I were Cadillac, I would have either switch suppliers by now, or re-engineered an obvious POS, but what do I know.

How long do you rub coal hoping their is a diamond in there somewhere. If I were Cadillac, I would have either switch suppliers by now, or re-engineered an obvious POS, but what do I know.

They have already, it's in the 09 CTS-V :D

Not near as many rears defunk in the STS-V as the 1st Gen CTS-V. The pinion seal issue sounds specific to a bad supplier and I seriously doubt GM will just eat this whole thing for them without making them pay in one form or another. As far as doing something new for the rears in the 1st gen CTS-V I just don't see that happening. GM is better off biding their time and replacing those that fail under warranty until each car no longer has a warranty to cover it vs the cost of a complete redesign and recall on a limited production vehicle. Certainly a wink link in the 1st gen design, but hopefully a lesson learned and solved in the 2nd generation that's coming. We'll see.

I'd agree the Getrag units are far from perfect.
The point I was trying to make, that you seemed to understand, is that a leaking pinion seal isn't the reason the diffs are sub-par nor do they make the whole car junk.
(as so many people have tried to attest recently)

They have already, it's in the 09 CTS-V :D

Not near as many rears defunk in the STS-V as the 1st Gen CTS-V. The pinion seal issue sounds specific to a bad supplier and I seriously doubt GM will just eat this whole thing for them without making them pay in one form or another. As far as doing something new for the rears in the 1st gen CTS-V I just don't see that happening. GM is better off biding their time and replacing those that fail under warranty until each car no longer has a warranty to cover it vs the cost of a complete redesign and recall on a limited production vehicle. Certainly a wink link in the 1st gen design, but hopefully a lesson learned and solved in the 2nd generation that's coming. We'll see.

Remember the STSv has the frame connectors underneath it that keep torsion to a minimum, thus, keeping our drivelines straight and tight (ie, no blown rears). I too dumped my CTSv as a result of living on pins and needles wondering what would grenade next...it was a great idea of a car - implemented poorly. I feel boatloads more confidence in the STSv in regards to driveline issues since there are so many inherent NANNIES on or slushies...GM has limited our ability to thrash the rears via electronics....You just wont get as many failures. You can remove the nannies with available software...BUT then youre back in CTSv country regarding problems, and who wants that?



F

Believe me, if I thought the car was junk, it would not be in my garage.....

Now the huge pile of differential fluid on the floor in my garage, thats was has me pizzed off.

I work at a Cadillac dealer and I have only seen 1 STS-V differential seal leak, so they must have improved it.

At 6500 Miles My STS-V rear end was whining at about 30MPH...Service Manager took it for a ride and they replaced the complete rear end carrier as they call it and all is quiet now, never did show any leaking!
H

I am getting so tired of people bashing GM because of something a subcontractor did I can't even describe what I am feeling at this point.


that is absolute nonsense. GM is responsible for its subcontractors' work when it puts those subcontracted products into its cars and sells them to customers under the GM badge. this wouldn't be tolerated in any other trade or industry

i've owned a few cadillacs and had good luck with them. i'm currently jonesing big-time for an XLR-V. i grew up in Windsor, and i want to support the domestic auto industry, not make excuses for it.


edit: the few times i've had the cars in for service, Cadillac dealers always went way beyond the call of duty. specifically, Patrick in Schaumburg IL, and Martin in West L.A. have exceptionally diligent service departments.

is anyone reading the xlr-v forum here anymore? it's gotta be the deadest beat on the map...

Whats an XLR ???


Actually the CEO of my company has a XLR-V....Silver...I took it for a ride. Very nice...

I took one for a ride before I decided to by my STS-V...what a rush...!

Although I can agree with the premise of your response, the fact that I worked for GM car assembly division for 15 years, coupled with the two 'whole' rear ends I went through on the 2004 CTS-V, must be what has me frustrated. I know a little more about cars than most, and I loved the CTS-V in spite of the wheel hop and run around I got for 2 rear ends. With
all that I bought the STS-V.

For some reason, I just assumed Cadillac would have figured out by now, the 'weak link' in these cars IS the rear end. Both rear ends come from the same supplier (I believe).

How long do you rub coal hoping their is a diamond in there somewhere. If I were Cadillac, I would have either switch suppliers by now, or re-engineered an obvious POS, but what do I know.

I understand that you know a little more about cars than most. The other side of the question is: What is the escape clause for the manufacturing contract on the rears?
Can GM actually prove that the original factory has produced bad rears?
If they can prove it, how long will it take to document such?
Does GM need to get attorneys involved in escaping from a contract, or can GM just walk away from a contract without ending up in court?
How long would it take to line up another manufacturer?
How long will it take for the new manufacturer to get the dies made?
How long to get staff hired and trained?
etc
etc.

Much more detailed than slapping parts together.

They don't build the cars "knowing" about the issues.
When something like the diff leak comes up they do an investigation to find the cause. They found it a couple months ago, re-engineered a new design part and found a supplier to manufacture them, had some made, added them to their parts catalog and made orders to get stock in the distribution centers and got some to fill the shelves then released a bulletin, now they are preparing for a recall. I am not sure where that makes them negligent, by doing everything they can to rectify this problem. You can't make 300,000 seal kits overnight.
I am getting so tired of people bashing GM because of something a subcontractor did I can't even describe what I am feeling at this point.

Yes I have heard of converters needing early replacement, probably due to a manufacturing issue as well.

Also, GM does have plenty of these parts "on the shelves" but GM dealers have to pay big money to keep
GM parts sitting around waiting for you to need one. Most of this is controlled by computers that keep track of items that are actually sold. Since these new parts have never been sold... because they are a NEW design, your dealer may not have any on hand. They can overnight them or get them within a couple of days from their parts distribution centers. I am sure within the next few weeks they will have plenty.

Just because you don't know the answers doesn't mean everyone that works for GM or a dealership is a slacker.
Relax and let your dealer handle it the best they can, I am sure they are making every effort to resolve your issues. If not, then find another dealer that will.

Thanks for speaking up. Considering how much help you provide us here, it must be painful to read some of the posts.

You explained the situation very clearly. Hopefully, our forum members will realize what you tried to explain to us. Keep hanging in there, guy. Many of us rely very heavily on your advice.

Ed

I am always glad to share what I know. Sometimes I am right on the money, sometimes I am really wrong.
I don't have a problem making mistakes or apologizing.

Sometimes I get a little defensive. My love for GM goes back a few decades and I am proud to work for what I consider to be one of the best carmakers in the world. I don't want to make excuses for someone else's decision. GM screws stuff up on a daily basis, however I think it is important to remember that as I have said before it is a corporation made up of thousands of people. Sometimes it is easy for one or two guys to make a bonehead decision that makes the whole thing look bad.
I can get help or not get help calling the same phone number depending on who answers when I call TAC (technical assistance). It is so random that most of the time I won't even call them. I'd rather waste my own time (that I can't get paid for) trying to figure something out rather than call for "help" because I have had so many bad experiences when I call them. Over the years I have gathered up some numbers for a few engineers, I usually call them instead and then when I figure it out I "might" call TAC and let them know. :D

At any rate, I don't have a problem with people not seeing things my way. I am on the inside a little bit and have access to information that most folks don't.
Believe me or don't, agree with me or don't... it is okay. I'll survive.

GM has no interest in ignoring customers, there aren't many of us that feel if we ignore you guys long enough everything will be okay. They actually do research this stuff and try to make it right. The biggest issue I feel is out there right now is reluctant and uneducated dealers.
They are not used to performance oriented customers, you guys have a different mindset than the "old folks" that traditionally buy Cadillacs and they don't know what to do. Going over 65 mph to them is "abuse".
This issue varies from dealer to dealer and it is totally based on the people that work there.

Thanks to the UAW and the poor domestic manufacturing climate GM is having real parts supply issues right now. I heard a rumor that we lost a considerable amount of parts production and there is a huge backlog of orders with no parts to fill them because GM is scrambling to find companies to take over manufacture of parts they lost contractors for. I suppose you could blame GM for that too.
To me, regardless of who is to blame, you can't change it so you can either be patient and understanding or you can get pissed off and complain.

Over the years I have found that if you get mad in one hand and spit in the other, one will fill up faster.

HEAR,HEAR...(clap,clap,clap,clap....etc...)!

I had a long reply typed out and after a re-read, decided not to bother.

Suffice it to say, if the dealer makes good on the huge mess in my driveway and garage, from all the rear differential fluid for the past 3 weeks, I will probably get over it.

I work at a Cadillac dealer and I have only seen 1 STS-V differential seal leak, so they must have improved it.

Ok...2 STS-V differential leaks. There is one in the shop today.

I experienced the diff leak at about 6500 miles. Took it to the dealer and they had it fixed that day.

I understand no car is perfect and so far couldn't be happier with the car or the service I have received.

So, I finally got to the end of this adventure. For those who have been following it, here goes.

1. There is a formal recall on this rear problem (in case that was not known). If it is not addressed, the rear can lock up, and you can loose control of the car. If you spot a leak, get it fixed. If you loose a lot of oil right off (like I did) get it fixed fast. They did something to try and slow down the leak while I waited for parts, but it only lasted about 4 days, and it started leaking bad again. I just stopped driving it rather than take the chance.

2. By the time the parts came in (new seals for the rear) I have a 90w oil puddle stain about the size of a garbage can lid in my garage. Smells real good too. I am anal about my garage so this is not good. I put kitty litter down as soon as I saw it. After having it catch the oil for the last 2 weeks, I am hoping I minimized further damage. We shall see.

3. The exhaust was also completely replaced, with an entire one piece unit, due to the collapsed internals on a Catlytic converter. How long have we been making converters ?? They said it was the biggest box they ever saw at the dealer...

4. Dealer refused to do anything for my troubles (I asked for a free oil change). He said that was too much to ask, since the car requires about 9 quarts of synthetic.

5. I got under the car today,to find rear diff fluid all over the back undercarrage of the car. They did not even take a rag and some simple green and clean it up.. I wondered why the car still smelled like sheet...

I will let you all decide how I feel about this situation...

Anyone have a customer care phone number for Caddy, or a zone office number ??
I can only hope I get a dealer survey I guess..Assuming someone reads them.....

I never liked this dealer but it is within 5 miles and the next one is more like 15.

I miss my CTS-V...

Sounds like a dealer related issue dude. Sorry to hear you're having the problems to deal with. My dealership is 25 miles away.

edit -

Address: Cadillac Customer Assistance Center
P. O. Box 33169
Detroit, MI 48232-5169



Phone: 1-800-333-4CAD

I had a long reply typed out and after a re-read, decided not to bother.


Is the car itself fixed now to your satisfaction? Cadillac forums are read by many....

I miss my CTS-V too.

I am not satisfied...At all.

2 issues:

1) Is the car now fixed?

2) Your other inconveniences like the stain on your garage floor.