: Rebuilt N*



61loub
01-04-08, 10:55 PM
I am considering purchasing my fathers 2002 SLS. The engine was rebuilt at the dealership around 69K due to oil consumption (1Q every 500 miles) which was covered under the GM certified warranty. I know there are several techs out there and was wondering how well the N* performs after rebuild. Car now has 75K (6K on rebuild) and I did 2nd oil change over the weekend oil consumption corrected (1/2Q low 3K miles). Car is in great shape and father will sell to me for 7500-8000. How well and for how long should the N* perform.

Submariner409
01-04-08, 11:03 PM
BUY IT !! With the GM rebuild and proper care it will run forever.

Any connection to your other SLS post or are you jerking us around ???

61loub
01-04-08, 11:20 PM
No same car as previous post. The vibration is only issue with vehicle. This car has been a bit problematic was the reason I asked. Nothing real major just things like water pump, motor mount couple other minor things. The engine was a time consuming issue. I was just asking as I am not that familiar with the durability of these vehicle. I am well aware of the GM 3.8 and 5.7 liter engines which are I believe to be quite bullet proof. Hope that explains where I'm coming from.

Submariner409
01-04-08, 11:35 PM
With the engine, water pump and motor mount(s) you've hit most of the common complaints in the Seville series. Buy the car, take care of it, and understand that maintenance can be costly once in a while....you've been there, though. It's not an Escort, it's an SLS. Once you accept that, you're good to go.

Have fun and drive the snot out of it.......intelligently.

AJxtcman
01-05-08, 09:32 AM
Rebuilt is a bad term. It would be against policy and procedure to rebuild an engine.

If you go in for Oil Consumption you should or would just get rings per the TSB and policy and procedure.
Any Northstar that uses oil will have Carbon Buildup. This stands to reason correct?

If the car comes in for Oil Consumption and knocking when cold it gets Pistons also and the list below.

If the car comes in for Knocking noise it gets the following
Part description

Pistons
Ring Set
*Rod Brgs*( per TSB#04-06-01-032 As needed, based on wear. Vehicles with less than 90,000 miles should not need replacement) (per service information NEVER re-use the connecting rod bearings)
Rod Bolts (torque to yield)
Oil Manifold
Rear Main Seal
Flywheel Bolts
Sealer
Left Head Gasket
Right Head Gasket
Front Cover Gasket
Cam Seal
Oil Filter Adapter GSK 03
Oil Filter Adapter Seals
Water Pump Cover
Water Pump Cover GSK
Thermostat Gasket
Cross Over Gaskets
Cross Over Gaskets
Plastic Plugs
Coolant Connector
Dex -Cool
Oil
Oil Filter


Bulletin 02-06-01-009C Oil Economy
This bulletin addresses NorthstarŽ oil economy only. The cleaning procedure in this bulletin should be done first and the oil economy evaluated. In most cases, cleaning the cylinders per bulletin 02-06-01-009C will restore the function of the rings to wipe the oil down the bore. If the oil economy after cleaning is still not satisfactory, then the revised piston rings should be installed. For an oil consumption concern, it is not necessary to replace pistons. The original pistons can be cleaned. The critical part of the cleaning process it to remove all the carbon deposits from the piston ring groves.

Important: The cylinder bore surface does not require any preparation when installing new rings. The repair would be ineffective if any honing is done to the bore surface.

Recognize that the oil consumption mileage figure of 2000 miles per quart (3200 km per 0.946 liters) in bulletin 01-06-01-011A applies to a vehicle during the warranty period. As mileage accumulates on the engine, oil economy mileage will decrease due to normal wear in the engine.

Bulletin 03-06-01-025 Cold Engine Knock
This bulletin address cold start engine knock noise. Use of top engine cleaner, or the cleaning process for oil consumption is only a temporary fix for this condition on 2000 through 2003 vehicles. Unless the driving cycle is changed, the cold knock will return in a short time. The piston listed in this bulletin is the only recommended repair to eliminate a cold start knock from reoccurring.

Important: If only a single piston(s) is installed for another type concern, this part number can be used without any balance or performance concerns. P/N 89017413 is the only service piston and it is completely interchangeable with the original pistons. If the condition is for cold knock, all 8 pistons should be replaced.


Important: A small percentage of vehicles have exhibited a subtle ticking sound when the engine is at operating temperature. The noise is usually heard through the fender wells with the hood closed. This noise is a wrist pin noise and should be considered characteristic of this engine with these pistons. There is not any mechanical damage or wear from this noise, no further repairs should be attempted.



The point is you never know what you will get.

GM has keeps track of the warranty cost by Zone, Dealer, Nationally, Size of the store, Group of repair (engine, Trans, steering) and if your dealer is out of line you get spanked. This is not a fun process. If you have very detailed documentation the dealer will get through it, but lets face it most Tech don't document properly and the dealer will get spanked. Then the cars get just the minimum GM wants, but not what the allow.

jmj455
01-05-08, 11:22 AM
my wifes 2001 deville had new pistons and rings @ 64000 miles car now has 112000 with no major problems. All work was done by cadillac dealer under warranty. The check oil level has never came on since repair. Oil stays on dipstick and is clean.You should not hesitate to buy this car!

AJxtcman
01-05-08, 02:44 PM
I second or third that. The car is nice, The price is right and you know some of the history if not all of it.

I have trained our service advisers to ask the customers questions when they come in for Oil Consumption issues. One of them is does it knock when cold. If they say yes it solve a problem with policy and procedures and the customer get the correct service.:D

What is your location? I might want that car

acklac7
01-06-08, 10:02 PM
Rebuilt

If the car comes in for Knocking noise it gets the following
Part description....................................... .................................................. .........

Left Head Gasket

Right Head Gasket




Let me guess, the block only gets timeserted if the bolts have pulled...correct?

AJxtcman
01-06-08, 10:45 PM
A timesert is a band aid. Just to get you by. It does not fix the problem, It just makes the bolt bigger, and it is not part of the block. They break, pull out, and they unscrew

Destroyer
01-06-08, 11:38 PM
A timesert is a band aid. Just to get you by. It does not fix the problem, It just makes the bolt bigger, and it is not part of the block. They break, pull out, and they unscrew
Most here swear by the timeserts. If its not a permanent fix what is?.:hmm:

zonie77
01-06-08, 11:59 PM
We swear by timeserts on a block that had Head gasket failure...not on any or every repair. Some blocks have head gasket failure and don't need timeserts, but if you have to timsert a few you might as well do them all because some may be compromised.

AJxtcman can give his opinion on this but I'd timesert all the holes if some were stripped. I would do the best job possible timserting I could. I would also realize that any repair can fail.

AJxtcman
01-07-08, 07:04 AM
Most here swear by the timeserts. If its not a permanent fix what is?.:hmm:

The reason is they don't use them in this application or have not used them in this application them selves. I have used the aftermarket inserts and see one small problem with them, but the good out weighs the small issue that can be over come if you do extra work.

The permanent fix is a New Block or car:histeric:

If you drill the hole out and you get powder instead of aluminum chip. The Timesert won't hold! If you drill the hole out and you look down inside the hole and you see that is is all pitted, the Timesert won't hold! Common sense

tateos
01-07-08, 04:48 PM
AJxtcman:

When you say:

I have used the aftermarket inserts and see one small problem with them, but the good out weighs the small issue that can be over come if you do extra work.

...are you referring to Norm's inserts? If so, what is the small issue?

I'm in the middle of the project, maybe I can do the extra work. The only thing I have come across so far is that when I drilled and tapped all the way to the bottom of the 1st pre-existing hole, I was a little deeper than the 1" to 1/4" depth from the deck to the top of the insert, once the insert is screwed all the way in. I suppose I can adjust for that when I screw the insert in - I guess the Loctite will hold it in place at the correct depth. On successive holes, I drilled all the way to the bottom, but I tapped a little short of the bottom, so when the insert is bottomed on the threaded portion, it will be in the correct range of distance from the deck.

I am going to post a picture of the insert and the head bolt on my thread to show the difference in the diameter and length and the thread pitch - it is pretty amazing. Also, when I drilled my '97 block, I did not seem to come across any powdery aluminum - it was all shiny, I think...???


Richard Moore

AJxtcman
01-07-08, 10:33 PM
Yes Norms kits. I love them on the 99 and prior blocks.

The TimeSert kit has a stop collar on the drill. You can install it on the Tap also.

Ok the insert need to be installed between 1" and 1.25"

If you have no way to stop the drill bit at XXX depth you could go 3/8" too much. No big deal. Just don't tap it all the way right.
You have a short little tap and no way to put a stop on it.

You install Norms insert and it is not bottomed out at 1.25" depth, but you leave it at 1.25".

Now you install the head and the insert rotates just a little bit the torque value is different on that bolt making it uneven.

OK you let the Loctite setup. Will it rotate or not?


If the drill has a stop the tap should stop at the correct location.

One more thing. The aluminum block used to center the drill bit can't if you leave the ridge on the top of the cylinder. Most people grind the ridge off, but it needs to be in place. The TimeSert block bolts down onto the block using 3 bolts. The TimeSert plate or block has 4 holes in it.

Everything that I have mentioned about Norm's kit can be solved with attention to detail. If you take your time Mark the drill with tape or a lock you are good.

tateos
01-10-08, 06:47 PM
AJxtcman

I guess it is too late for me now, but I think you are saying to not follow the NORMS instructions and drill to the bottom of the existing hole, right? You are saying to drill only far enough to tap the bore completely and still thread the insert in completely to the 1-1 1/4" mark, right?

I drilled all the holes until the bottom. What I did on holes 2 through 19 was to test fit the insert on hole #2 and then "calibrate" by measuring the tap handle distance from the block deck when the insert reached the proper depth. I used the depth gauge supplied with the kit.