: Need to know ASAP: # of bellhousing bolts



eldorado1
05-08-04, 09:53 PM
I'm separating my engine and tranny, and I've taken out 4 torque converter bolts, and 4 bellhousing bolts (one was oddly a different size). Is that all I need, or are there a few more bolts that I can't see? I got 2 under the water log, and one on either side a little bit lower. Don't want to start prying when there's more bolts ;) Thanks for your quick replies - it's getting dark soon:suspense:

eldorado1
05-08-04, 11:49 PM
Nevermind guys, figured out what the cause of the binding was... For future reference, there's a mount that connects to both the tranny's snout, and the cylinder head... Took me 3 hours to figure that out. {sigh} :rant2:

dloch
05-10-04, 12:01 AM
Wait until you try to re-connect that bracket......... not to mention the the exhaust pipes to the Y-pipe.

Putting mine back in now..... be patient is all I can say.

zonie77
05-10-04, 12:20 AM
I don't understand why you guys insist on pulling the engine out the top. Are you into S&M? It was made to come out the bottom.

dloch
05-10-04, 10:49 AM
I don't understand why you guys insist on pulling the engine out the top. Are you into S&M? It was made to come out the bottom.
Yes we're into S & M..... :rolleyes2 I don't have a lift in my garage but I do have a cherry picker. I know you used the cherry picker to lift the car high enough to get the drive train out the bottom. On my next attempt I may go that route although I don't know if I have enough headroom above to lift the car that high not to mention I have will have to block the car up so I can get the cherry picker out of the way so I can roll the Powertrain module out from under the car.

To be honest with you except for the bracket eldorado1 mentioned and getting the exhaust pipe bolts out and back in it really isn't that hard and you are left with a car that can still roll if you need to move it around. I removed and installed my engine by myself. I needed the GF to get her finger between the firewall and the rear head to get the bolt back into the bracket that goes between the head and trans. I left the front engine bracket off until everything was pretty much hooked up so I could jack the front of the engine up and down to get at some of the PITA bolts at the back. I have to say the hardest was the connecting the exhaust pipes to the manifold and wrap around pipe. Can't get a good angle to get the top bolt that bolts the exhaust pipe to the wrap around pipe coming from the front exhaust manifold, need that special tool that doesn't exist yet.

Lawrence how did you go about getting at those??

Lawrence
05-11-04, 01:46 AM
Lawrence how did you go about getting at those??
They are a pain for sure. Take frequent cool down breaks, and repeat "Patience is a virtue", "Patience is a virtue", "Patience is a virtue", to yourself repeatedly. Time well spent.

However, even to drop the cradle you still need to do them. I just used regular 3/8" extensions and standard/deep well sockets. I had about a foot and a half of extensions. You need the rachet handle to clear the pipe. Get way back. I can't remember exactly, but the length was quite important for the proper angle. I couldn't get it with this combo but that one worked. The deep wells helped a bit, acting as "wooble" socket on at least one of them. I would really recommend a "wooble" extension set (not the u-joint type). But first loosen the easy lower ones and then you can pull the pipe down abit to get a little more room for the upper ones. Once I broke them free I used 1/4" inch stuff, much easier. Also do run a tap throught the holes to clean them up before re-installing the engine. Make sure you can finger run the bolts through them.

Other than that though I thought the out the top method worked quite well. I would (and did) do it again. Really the only thing you do different is the way in which you remove the wiring harness. Out the top you remove it from the engine while the engine is still in the car, leaving the main ends of the harness attached to the car. Once all the brackets and such are out of the way, it is simple to disconnect the harness and set aside. Out the bottom, and you disconnect the ends from the car and leave it connected to the motor. If you do the oil seals, you will still need to disconnect it from the engine after the cradle is out anyway.

Worth noting is that if you pull the cradle, you are still going to have to disconnect the engine from the trans and the wiring harness from the engine if you replace the oil seals. Which I would always do while the engine is out. Do everything while it is out. So it is really just a matter of whether you disconnect the engine from the trans and the wiring from the engine while the engine is in the car, or in the case of cradle removal, you do the same work but while the engine is on the cradle. And pulling the harness from the engine and disconnecting the engine from the trans is not really any harder in the car than it would be on the cradle. Maybe even less work as the cradle is already supported in the car. So if you are doing the complete job, I beleive pulling the engine out the top is easier as you are not doing anything you wouldn't do to take it out the bottom, but you are leaving the cradle (brakes, axels, etc.) intact and also the AC system and the wiring to the ABS module. I think unless you are doing only the head gaskets, out the top is easier.

And as you said Dennis, I have a two car garage. So I pulled the motor then put the car down and rolled it off to the side to make room for the real task at hand.

Dennis, how is your install coming?

One tip I can give you is concerning the wiring harness where it makes the turn from over the bell housing to go around the front of the engine. After the bell housing bolts are in, leave the harness dis-connected from the anchor point right there at the corner until you get all of the harness hooked up and all the harware in the area installed. Anchor this part of the harness as one of the last items to do. I can't off hand remember why, but I know I had to disconnect it there and then re-install it later, and it is a real pain to disconnect once the water crossover is installed.

And for anyone who has the knock sensor mounted on the rear of the engine, remove it and re-install it after the engine is in. It will hit the little heat sheild and break off, if it is there. If the sensor gives you a hard time you could remove the heat sheild, but unless the sensor if frozen in it will be easier to just re-install it.

Lawrence
05-11-04, 02:07 AM
Sorry, just caught the question about the rear transaxle/engine mount. That, I just took the three bolts out that go into the engine. The rest stays in place and holds the trans up.

When I mated the engine back up the holes in the block just lined right back up with the bracket. Re-install the three bolts.

dloch
05-11-04, 10:29 AM
The engine is back in and I am reconnecting everything now. Needed to replace the air conditioning compressor as well which was easy with the engine out. As you may remember I also replaced the torque converter with a Yank to help the low end a little.........:rolleyes2

With the engine out I pressure washed the engine compartment and replaced the heater/air conditioning cover/shield and went one step further by adding dynomat extreme to the lower outside to reflect the heat from the exhaust.

Everthing underneath is done now I need to get the radiator back in and connected, although with the addition of the higher stall converter I am considering the addition of a trans cooler. I'm just trying to figure out where to mount it right now.

The top exhaust on the left pipe was the one that gave me fit's I need to get a longer extension to get the angle correct I suppose. I put anti-sieze on all the exhaust bolts so if I ever need to pull the motor again it should be alot easier to get the bolts loose. Considering I will have an extra motor who's to what might be done to that one.................

Hopefully I will have it running again this weekend.

Lawrence
05-11-04, 11:31 AM
The engine is back in and I am reconnecting everything now. I put anti-sieze on all the exhaust bolts so if I ever need to pull the motor again it should be alot easier to get the bolts loose. Considering I will have an extra motor who's to what might be done to that one.................

Hopefully I will have it running again this weekend.
Thats a good feeling, hey.

Did the 97' still use the coil pack? Remove the small connector from the drivers side. This will cut power to the pack so you can crank the motor to prime for oil pressure. I am sure you know this, so just a reminder.


I put anti-sieze on all the exhaust bolts so if I ever need to pull the motor again it should be alot easier to get the bolts loose.
I always do that too. I didn' have good results with the aluminum, but the copper seems to work better.


Let us know when you get it going.

dloch
05-11-04, 12:04 PM
Thats a good feeling, hey.

Did the 97' still use the coil pack? Remove the small connector from the drivers side. This will cut power to the pack so you can crank the motor to prime for oil pressure. I am sure you know this, so just a reminder.


I always do that too. I didn' have good results with the aluminum, but the copper seems to work better.


Let us know when you get it going.
Yes the 97 uses the coil pack so I will remove the power lead and crank it over a bunch of times to get oil flowing through the system. If I was going to do a bunch of Northstars I would devise a way to use an electric pump to pressurize the system with out running the starter motor. My LT1 in the Impala is the same thing, can't spin the oil pump. For that matter the LS1 has the same oil pump design as the NorthStar.... Ever notice how the intake manifold of the LS1 and the Northstar look very similar????

way off subject here...


The anti-sieze I use has nickel in it for very high temp, like exhaust systems. I also use what is called KoperShield (SP) from T&B on all electrical connections, and I mean all. I use a toothpick to put in all the cavities of the plugs, helps make sure I don't have problems in the future.

growe3
05-15-04, 01:01 AM
I see a few more are deciding to remove from the top.

Attached is an image of how I was able to get the engine in and out easier. The engine load leveler ($30) allowed me to roll it out without damaging the heater barrier and the same in reverse. It was also helpful when aligning with the bell housing.

-George

growe3
05-15-04, 01:06 AM
Hey Dloch and Lawrence,

I forgot to add your reasons are the same as mine, for choosing to remove the engine from the top.

Good luck on the projects.

-George